Katie Couric, GOING THERE

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[2:04]I'm so excited to be releasing my episode with Katie Couric, the author of the New York Times bestseller Going There.

[2:12]This is from my conversation with Katie, which I did live at the Temple of Manual Striker Center in front of a full audience.

[2:20]And there's a little video of the whole event on my Instagram feed at Debbie Owens.

[2:24]So you can see behind the scenes before and after during the event.

[2:29]Thank you to the Striker Center for hosting us.

[2:31]I also write for Katie Couric and her weekly, well, I write weekly for her daily newsletter called Wake Up Call.

[2:38]So if you haven't subscribed to that, please do so.

[2:41]Not only for my great little book recommendations each month, but for the fabulous things.

[2:46]She often recommends the news she covers and all of that.

[2:49]Her book going there was really amazing.

[2:52]Anyway, Katie is the founder of Katie Couric Media.

[2:55]She's an award winning journalist, best selling author, documentary filmmaker of fed up gender revolution and America inside out.

[3:02]As you probably all know, Katie hosted the Today Show CBS Evening News and was a special correspondent for ABC News and Global Anchor for Yahoo News.

[3:12]She's also a cancer advocate, a coffee lover and a full-time New Yorker.

[3:16]I really hope you enjoy our episode that you love going there and that you subscribe to Wake Up Call and read my weekly articles for her.

[3:24]Hi everybody. Thanks for coming tonight. Hi Katie.

[3:27]Hi Sivvy. Hi everyone.

[3:29]Thanks to everybody who's watching virtually.

[3:31]We have to talk right into our microphones for the virtual things.

[3:35]So don't think that we're doing anything too odd or whatever.

[3:38]Right. Yes.

[3:39]We have to really speak loudly.

[3:41]Hi everyone.

[3:42]I like the sound of my voice in this mic.

[3:44]You sound great.

[3:45]Thank you.

[3:46]We're just going to take the mics with us after we just going to ring around all night.

[3:50]Well, it's so exciting to get to talk to you about your book going there.

[3:54]So we are going to go there tonight a little bit.

[3:56]I really wanted to know, why did you decide to go there?

[3:59]Why did you decide to write this book?

[4:01]And why now, especially at this point in your life?

[4:04]Well, if not now, when?

[4:06]I'm 64.

[4:07]I'll be 65 on January 7th.

[4:09]The press have whoever knew that.

[4:11]And I had, you know, I've done a lot in the news industry.

[4:15]I've worked at every network except for Fox.

[4:19]No, your audience, right?

[4:24]And I worked at Yahoo.

[4:27]I had done a syndicated talk show for a couple of years.

[4:30]I worked at Yahoo because I saw how the landscape was changing.

[4:33]And then in 2018, my husband and I decided to start a media company

[4:39]because we saw how the landscape was so fragmented and digital content

[4:46]was becoming more and more important.

[4:49]Television news was declining.

[4:51]And that was the case even when I went to CBS.

[4:54]So I had this moment in my life, Zibi, where I had much more freedom.

[4:59]I wasn't beholden to any corporation or any boss.

[5:04]I was really happy not to work for the man anymore, but work for myself.

[5:09]I do work for my husband kind of.

[5:11]He's the CEO.

[5:12]And I just decided I've had, I've been the beneficiary

[5:17]and the lucky recipient of this extraordinary life

[5:20]that I never anticipated in a million years.

[5:23]It's been full of high points beyond my wildest expectations.

[5:30]And of course, some really low points having lost both my husband and sister to cancer.

[5:37]And I have had this incredible ride.

[5:40]And I thought, why not write about it?

[5:43]Not only is it gift to my daughters,

[5:46]but also I thought there might be some life lessons in those pages

[5:52]about persistence, about resilience, about kind of getting kicked

[5:58]and getting back up and not taking no for an answer.

[6:02]And I actually love to write.

[6:05]And I enjoy writing.

[6:07]I love words and language I always have.

[6:10]So for all of those reasons, I thought this would be a good time

[6:14]for me to put pen to paper or fingertip to iPad keyboard

[6:19]and start to write about my life.

[6:22]And it was really fun and really hard in places,

[6:27]but I love doing it.

[6:29]I know it probably sounds conceited, but I really love my book.

[6:32]And once a while I'll read it.

[6:35]And John's like, are you reading your book again?

[6:37]I'm like, yeah, I really like it.

[6:39]And so, but also a gift for my daughters.

[6:43]They were six and two when my husband died,

[6:46]and they never got to know him.

[6:48]And so I wanted him to come alive in a way in this book.

[6:52]And anyway, I really enjoyed it.

[6:55]And I thought, while I still remember, I better write it down.

[7:00]It's great because you have both the news side of your whole life,

[7:04]and you track that in great detail.

[7:06]And that was very interesting, especially being a woman

[7:09]and changing and pivoting so many times

[7:11]and doing all these different things.

[7:13]But you also track your whole private life,

[7:15]which maybe this is creepy of me.

[7:17]I found really interesting.

[7:18]And I was like, hey, that's super creepy.

[7:20]I'm kidding.

[7:21]It's not creepy.

[7:22]I wrote about it.

[7:23]I wait outside her apartment every night.

[7:25]Look at her with us.

[7:26]And I was especially struck by your relationship with your dad,

[7:29]because it seemed really meaningful.

[7:31]Tell us a little bit about that.

[7:33]He was sort of the bookends, if you will, of this book,

[7:36]with your epilogue to him at the end, and all the ways

[7:38]where there are all these moments where you look to him

[7:41]and sort of for his approval.

[7:43]So just tell me about the influence of him in your life.

[7:45]Well, I think my dad was a journalist.

[7:48]He grew up in a small town called Dublin, Georgia.

[7:52]He went to Mercer in Macon, Georgia.

[7:55]And he was the editor-in-chief of his college newspaper

[7:59]and then went on to work for the Macon Telegraph

[8:02]and the Atlanta Constitution.

[8:04]And later you worked for United Press, both in Tallahassee.

[8:07]I think we used the bureau chief in Florida

[8:10]and then moved with our family before I was born

[8:13]to the Washington D.C. area.

[8:16]And I think my dad was an extremely erudite person.

[8:21]He could talk fluently about just about any topic

[8:24]from the Spanish-American war to F. Scott Fitzgerald.

[8:28]And I wish I had those moments back

[8:31]because at the dinner table, my dad would start

[8:33]to pontificate about something

[8:35]and I would always go, shh, like a bratty kid.

[8:39]I was the youngest.

[8:41]And I'm just so regret that I didn't kind of really

[8:45]that I wasn't more of a sponge for everything he had to teach me.

[8:49]Having said that, he was just extremely influential.

[8:52]We had to bring a new word to the dinner table every night.

[8:56]There were four of us.

[8:58]And he just encouraged me.

[9:00]I think he saw that I was a good writer.

[9:02]I was a procrastinator.

[9:04]All these traits, I think he saw as traits

[9:09]that would really work in news

[9:12]because I had to work under deadline and have to...

[9:15]And I was also extremely outgoing as a kid.

[9:18]I never met a stranger.

[9:20]I'd go up to...

[9:21]Shocked.

[9:22]I know. I know.

[9:23]It's a shock.

[9:24]But I would go up to like kids at football games

[9:26]when I was like 10.

[9:27]My sisters were both cheerleaders

[9:29]and I was two, of course, please.

[9:31]But anyway, and I'd say you're Barbara McLaughlin, aren't you?

[9:34]And the girl would say, yeah.

[9:36]How did you know that I saw your picture

[9:38]in my sister's yearbook?

[9:39]Like I was that weird, creepy kid.

[9:42]So I think my dad saw all these traits

[9:45]and just really encouraged me to go into journalism.

[9:49]And while I wasn't journalism,

[9:52]he was just my North Star.

[9:54]I could always talk to him about interviews I did

[9:57]and ask him...

[10:00]did I go was I too heavy-handed when I interviewed David Duke and we would talk after the

[10:05]today's show and he would give me his two cents once I had to do a condom demonstration and he

[10:10]said that was too far. You know you went too far Katie on that but it was the AIDS epidemic and

[10:16]we were trying to be educational anyway so you know he just he just you know I always think of my

[10:23]dad was was my well you know and I was very close to my mom too but he was sort of my heart

[10:30]and my well I don't know he was my soul my mom was my heart but they were both incredibly influential

[10:36]my mom was a very creative person she used to be a cartographer for Rand McNally and she did lay

[10:42]out for Coronet magazine which was I believe the precursor to Esquire and they met in Chicago

[10:48]my dad was in the Navy and you know they were just incredible parents they really emphasized

[10:55]the importance of education they were very encouraging without pushy being too pushy they weren't

[11:02]helicoptery you know they didn't they gave us all our freedom but the four kids ended up being

[11:10]you know I think pretty accomplished people my sister Emily before she died of pancreatic cancer

[11:16]was running for Lieutenant Governor with Mark Warner and Virginia she was a real rising star in

[11:22]the Democratic Party my sister Kiki clear out that I call her Kiki is a landscape architect my

[11:28]brother Johnny is a CFO of a company so I feel like whatever they did they I don't know they I

[11:35]think emphasize the right things and gave us room to make mistakes but they always expected us to

[11:42]be leaders and to excel academically I was sort of the goof off but my sisters were they were all

[11:50]really smart and accomplished so and my mom was Jewish hello can we not talk about that

[11:58]so hello I'm a member of the tribe I couldn't like the candles but I'm learning but that's

[12:03]something in the book that's interesting that I talk about the fact that you know and I've talked

[12:09]to my relatives who are southern Jews and Birmingham Alabama my mom's family settled in Alex City

[12:15]Alabama and they had a department store and then later in Atlanta and you know I write a lot about

[12:23]that because my mom was never very open about her Judaism I wish she had been but I think growing

[12:30]up in Virginia and in the era when she grew up there was a lot of anti-Semitism and I'm not sure

[12:37]if that was something that she agreed with my paternal grandmother who was quite religious

[12:44]and but I'm I'm so proud of my my Jewish heritage now and always have been but I didn't realize

[12:51]that until I was 10 years old in Psalm and Nora in my uncle's bookcase and I was like

[12:57]all I could think of was that Tom Lear song about national brotherhood week and if you're a

[13:02]certain age you might remember that he wrote a song it was all a satirical show on Sunday nights

[13:09]and I was way too young to be watching it but he wrote a song called the Protestant say

[13:13]the national brotherhood week and it's the Protestant say the Catholics the Catholics ate the

[13:17]Protestants and everybody hates the Jews and that's all I could remember and when I saw that

[13:23]Nora I was like oh my god but you know I wish that I wish she hadn't felt like she had to be

[13:30]quiet about her her faith but they were German Jews and assimilation was so important and I

[13:38]talked to my cousin Henry who I mentioned is lives in Birmingham and I said why do you think my mom

[13:44]was so secretive about that and he said you know we were citizens first and Jews second it was

[13:52]an important part of our identity and they closed the store on rasa shana and yam kippur but

[13:58]he said it wasn't first and foremost because we wanted to assimilate and so maybe that was

[14:05]had something to do with it but that was an interesting thing to explore in the book for me

[14:10]I think you might be able to get a butmitzvah date in like 2026 let me know okay in my daughter

[14:17]well my daughters went to camp and their last name is monahan and most of the girls at their camp

[14:23]were jewish so kerry would come home and say I want to have a not mitzvah because she felt left out

[14:30]you know the thing about your mom that was so moving you wrote really beautifully about both

[14:34]your parents at the end of their lives and how you sort of came to terms with that but after your

[14:39]mother died when you called up the newspaper and said okay I need you to write an obituary for my mom

[14:44]and they said okay well tell tell us about her and you were like well she was this amazing

[14:48]homemaker and this and that the other thing and there were silence on the other line and you're

[14:51]like why why does that not get written up why is that any less than other people's accomplishments

[14:58]and yet here you are as a woman and a mother doing all these other things and yet the it's

[15:04]it seems imbalanced in a way so tell me about that well you know when my dad was sick he had

[15:09]Parkinson's and my brother Johnny and I were at the hospital and you know he was just not getting

[15:15]better he had sundowners and was sort of getting sort of hallucinating a little bit and I walked

[15:22]into the hallway and I was just crushed I bring my little speaker and play Benny Goodman and

[15:28]Frank Sinatra and all these things and you know it was just devastating for me to lose my dad

[15:35]and my mom and everyone else I've lost but I said to my brother Johnny you know we probably should

[15:42]write dad so bituary and he said oh Katie don't worry he's already written it which was so

[15:50]thoughtful of him in a way well you know I think because of his journalism background you know

[15:56]he put something together and I called the reporter at the wash and post and that was the paper

[16:03]my parents and I grew up on and and my dad would read at the kitchen table every morning and

[16:09]I talked to the reporter he was so nice and I said you know I'd like to submit or can you help

[16:17]me with the sobituary and he was perfectly nice and you know I didn't want it to be like my dad

[16:23]because I you know I'm one of four kids and whenever somebody would say are you Katie Currick's

[16:30]father like I remember at the garage somebody asked him that or maybe it was the pharmacist

[16:35]and he said no actually she's my daughter and so we put this obituary and there's a really

[16:42]nice picture of my dad from the Navy and so when my mom died I called and said you know asked

[16:48]for the same guy he who was so nice and he said well tell tell me about her and I was like well

[16:56]she you know she was a really good artist she volunteered at Planned Parenthood she worked in the

[17:02]gift department of Lord and Taylor when I was older and she just raised four incredible kids

[17:10]and it was like silence and it made me realize that that parenting is just still so undervalued

[17:18]in our culture but there's so many people honestly who I think deserve obituary's when I read

[17:24]the New York Times and the notices I that's weird when you start reading the obituary especially

[17:30]when you see their ages and you start freaking out and you're like holy shit am I allowed to say that

[17:35]in here anyway so I think I think that that we just don't celebrate it made me realize because you

[17:43]know I've worked my whole life sippy and I know there's some times tension between parents

[17:49]moms especially who decide to stay home and raise their children and women who are you know

[17:56]quote unquote doing it all as if and it just made me really understand and appreciate everybody

[18:04]making the choices that are right for them and how much how grateful I was to my mom

[18:11]so nice you wrote a lot about this whole tension of being a mom and being a working mom when you

[18:16]were there the events that you missed how you felt about that in fact you even said when you

[18:21]found out you were pregnant the first time you were like not happy about it I don't know if I

[18:25]I feel bad person you can yeah you don't don't curse it's okay yeah I think I said something

[18:32]some explative yeah well I was I the trajectory of my career my career was just starting to take

[18:39]off I had it was clear that I was sort of being groomed to take over the today show as after

[18:46]this sort of Jane Polly Deborah Norville debacle that was very poorly handled by the management

[18:52]they sort of pushed Jane out at thirty one thirty nine thinking she was too old you know or losing

[18:58]younger viewers which was ludicrous and so it was not ideal timing but of course now in hindsight

[19:07]and I remember seeing that t-shirt when I was in my 20s that said oh my god I forgot to have

[19:13]children and I didn't want that to be me you know I I really wanted to have a family too so it

[19:20]turns out I was really so lucky because I had Jay and I had Ellie and then four and a half years

[19:29]later had Kerry and you know Jay was diagnosed with colon cancer at forty one so I'm just so

[19:37]grateful that there were two happy accidents who became my incredible daughters so I feel very

[19:44]blessed I feel like I know your daughter after all your wedding pictures which is amazing you

[19:51]know another thing you did in your memoir that I don't see that often is all the the space you

[19:56]gave to your child care providers and the relationships you

[20:00]You know, there was one like pretty contentious relationship there where one of them kind of went off the rails, which it wasn't I I wouldn't call it contentious. I would call it batshit crazy. Okay. Yeah, I had I had a I had a crazy, crazy, nanny. And it was scary and I mean it's the book. It's funny in the book. I give her an assume name, which I shouldn't have because she came out and talked to the tabloids after the book came out anyway.

[20:28]But she just had had severe emotional problems and the fact that an agency placed her with us. And this was my first child. I was in the middle of this incredible work experience getting this job on the Taisha when I was four or five months pregnant. And she was older and Jay wanted thought it would be good to have an older person more experienced and he was living in Washington working at a law firm.

[20:56]And so he thought that that someone experience would be great. But it was it was a really weird situation because she kind of grew her roots very subtly into our home. And I think, you know, I'm not a psychiatrist, but I think she had borderline personality disorder. And she after a few few weeks, she wanted me to hug her before she went to bed.

[21:20]And I did, which is so screwed up. But but she didn't have a family, you know, the first I remember going to the grocery store with her when I was on maternity leave and, you know, I by the way, I also, it was, it's such a strange relationship you have with your child's caregiver and I always want to be respectful and really value that person and compensate them well.

[21:45]And I remember her saying, I don't want to go away on the weekends. I want to feel like I'm a part of a family. And I was like, you can be a part of our family instead of like, mayday, mayday, mayday, something may be wrong here.

[21:58]And so yeah, she and it was just the two of us and Ellie. And I was like, well, she's alone. She has no friends. She doesn't really have a family.

[22:08]Because the harm of giving her a hug before she goes to bed. Anyway, I have boundary issues anyway. So this one was just severe and she worked for us for three years and we finally had to fire her and then she went crazy.

[22:27]The tabloids, she sent pictures of me in a bathing suit to like Tom Brokaw and Tim Russert. Like, our IQ love Katie. I was like, what? And oh my god, it was just so crazy. But you know, it's amazing how many women have these stories of because it's such a bizarre relationship.

[22:49]And so intimate, you know, they're around when you're getting out of the shower and so important because they're taking care of the most important thing in your life.

[22:59]And yet you have to have these barriers and it's really hard. But later I was very lucky and I write a lot about Lori Beth who was truly a co-parent for me after Jay died.

[23:14]When she came for the interview, we had done a segment on falls on the Today Show and I had this long thing of blonde hair and I decided I would keep it on just because I thought it was so fun and funny and she thought that I was incognito and she couldn't understand why I was saying hi to everyone and she was very confused by the whole thing.

[23:37]But she was wonderful and I feel so indebted to her and I write about how she taught Carrie. I think when she was eight to recite my life is like a loaded gun by Emily Dickinson at the dinner table.

[23:50]And as I said my little pony, it wasn't. But she was just really smart and really caring and I feel hi Diana. I just feel really, really blessed that I had her in my life and the girls love her like another mother.

[24:06]You wrote a lot about your dating life in the book including when you were dating Jay beforehand.

[24:12]One of my favorite parts which I like read out loud to my kids because I thought it was so funny is you had this one moment with Jay when you said I guess you were looking at his hair.

[24:21]It looked like it was thinning a little bit and you said hey do you think you're going to be bald when you get older and he's like I don't know. Do you think you're going to be fat and ugly?

[24:29]Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I learned not to bring up his hair ever again.

[24:35]You had like this mirror in this hand mirror that he kind of tucked into our stack of towels and I was like I know what he's doing with that he's like checking it out in the morning.

[24:46]But he was very sensitive. You know he took a lot of pride in his appearance and was a very nutty dresser and obviously I touched a nerve.

[24:55]But he was very funny and like when I called him I asked him out on our first date after I'd met him at a party and I said I thought you were going to call me because I had given him my cheesy little news for card and he'd given me his nice Williamson

[25:10]comedy card that was much more elegant than mine and I said I thought you were going to call me he said well I guess I didn't have to.

[25:17]I was like wow he's cocky but when you married John Milner who's here tonight he also was cracking me up.

[25:26]I was like this is great. I just have to hang out with all the people that Katie dates.

[25:29]Like this is John is really really funny. Where are you, Milner?

[25:33]He's right.

[25:35]Anyway yeah. John's great. I'm so lucky.

[25:40]When you got married I guess right before you were right before the ceremony he said something like well I'm the luckiest guy on Amy's Lane.

[25:49]Well this side of Amy's Lane.

[25:51]Yeah he's funny he's very witty and has a great sense of humor and I feel really lucky that I found a partner you know I'm six years older than he is I'm a cougar.

[26:04]And I feel really lucky that I found a life partner after losing Jay.

[26:09]It took a lot of dates in between and boyfriends and kind of unsuccessful relationships but finally I found Milner.

[26:19]And you know I always give people advice that they have to be intentional when I did my book tour Zibi.

[26:25]You know I went to 10 cities and I tried to get these life lessons and one of them was to be intentional and I was very very adamant about finding someone.

[26:38]I wanted to get remarried. I'm a pretty traditional person and my friend Molly who I used to go to flywheel spinning when I was into that for a nanosecond.

[26:49]I said her husband is the South African doctor and I said hey Molly do you know any does Dave know any doctors?

[26:56]I think I'd like to go out with a doctor because I've learned so much about cancer research and I really enjoy the science part of it and I haven't really dated that many doctors except for that weird plastic surgeon which we'll talk about later.

[27:08]But anyway so she said no we don't know any doctors but we do know this banker named John Molner.

[27:15]So every time I saw Molly I'd be like Molly what happened to the Molner guy he's never called me so finally he did and we had a great first date.

[27:24]But you know I tell people in fact I have a whole little section in my newsletter today with advice on dating that you just have to really it's a numbers game.

[27:35]I go through them don't ever meet for dinner because then you're trapped for a couple of hours and those are two hours of your life you'll never get back.

[27:44]So always meet for wine or coffee in a public place because you want to be safe and really ask all your friends and just just really kind of be relentless about it and you know if that's something you want in your life and by the way you don't necessarily have to want it.

[28:02]It's fine too but you know you just have to you have to really focus on it is if you're looking for a job that's my attitude and that always work for me even though my relationships weren't always that successful.

[28:16]I also married someone six years younger who is very funny and witty so we'll have to compare notes on these second marriages.

[28:23]A sense of humor is so critical I think especially now in the world we live in so bleak and depressing at times and so much rancor and acrimony I think you know you have to have somebody who makes you laugh I think that's really important.

[28:43]In terms of your work life just one thing I found really interesting and which you sort of alluded to earlier is how fragmented the news industry is but also how you grew up in the in the today show world where you could have one minute talking to the president and the next minute you could be doing something about I don't know paper towels or something.

[29:06]We're talking to miss pig teletubbies or I don't know what and how you've been in other endeavors people try to push you into certain things the daytime TV role and that you had to be a certain way and then the very serious CBS news role and and how it's so tricky to just sort of find all the parts of a person in a particular job and that's why your new Katie Kirk media is like so great and I love your newsletter because you have all of that all of that in there but why is that so hard to find why it is why do people think that it has to be so

[29:36]narrow well I think I think there's a certain expectation for news people especially television news people you know they used to say when I went to the CBS evening news that I lacked gravitas which I always say is Latin for testicles and and I think there it's it's very hard I think to still kind of see when.

[30:00]men in positions of power.

[30:02]I think people are suspicious of women as powerful figures,

[30:07]as authority figures.

[30:10]And I think there's so much cultural conditioning

[30:12]still, at least for people of my generation,

[30:16]to, as I said, be suspicious of someone

[30:20]who is both feminine and authoritative,

[30:25]who can have fun and have an outgoing, fun personality,

[30:30]but also have intellectual depth.

[30:33]And the kind of curiosity and intelligence

[30:37]that being a good journalist requires.

[30:40]So I think that's changing a bit.

[30:43]But I just think that we pigeonhole people.

[30:49]And that's, I think, because I have a big personality.

[30:53]And I'm very kind of fun-loving.

[30:56]But I also have an extremely serious side.

[31:00]And I think it's just hard for people

[31:02]to see individuals in all their multi-dimensional splendor.

[31:09]They want a pigeonhole you and put you in a category.

[31:13]So I think that was one of the things.

[31:15]And with my new company and John's our new company,

[31:20]I can do interviews with someone about the damn

[31:24]Omicron, or however you say it, varying it,

[31:27]how upsetting is that, keeping our fingers and toes crossed

[31:32]on that, but I can also do a fun interview.

[31:37]I can do an IG live with Leslie Jordan,

[31:39]or with Eina Garten when she's making a giant cosmo

[31:43]during the pandemic.

[31:44]So I can kind of satisfy all different sides of myself

[31:49]and not, and just do things that I'm interested in.

[31:53]But I wanted to ask you Zibi, because Zibi is really

[31:56]doing incredible things with her company.

[31:58]And you're really one of the things I realized

[32:02]in writing this book is publishing

[32:04]is an industry that is ripe for disruption.

[32:07]And because I think they've been doing it

[32:09]sort of the same way for decades, if not centuries.

[32:13]So I wanted to have you for the people who aren't familiar

[32:17]with the kind of things you're doing with your company,

[32:20]explain how you're approaching this changing media

[32:24]and changing publishing landscape.

[32:27]Yes, I recently started Zibi books, which

[32:29]is a new publishing company.

[32:31]And we're doing 12 books a year of fiction and memoir,

[32:35]telling it like it is.

[32:36]And one of the reasons why is because on my podcast,

[32:41]Momstone have time to read books, I've interviewed

[32:43]almost 900 people, and I've heard the same things over

[32:45]and over again about all the issues in publishing

[32:48]and work.

[32:49]And finally, I've been thinking of doing this for over a year.

[32:53]I just kept thinking, well, how is it going to change?

[32:55]It's impossible.

[32:56]Some of the companies are so big and so entrenched

[32:58]in the ways they're doing things.

[33:00]And with my own books, and I have books coming out

[33:03]with three different publishers or that have come out,

[33:05]I kept hearing like, no, well, we don't do it this way.

[33:07]And I'm like, well, let's try this.

[33:08]No, we can't do it that way.

[33:10]I don't like that.

[33:10]I'm like, why not?

[33:11]I don't understand.

[33:12]Like, how are you going to find a book

[33:14]if it's stored in the top shelf when there's one copy?

[33:17]And then they sell out and they won't reorder.

[33:19]And it's like, well, of course, if you sold it,

[33:22]anyway, I'll stuff.

[33:24]But I had a lot of frustrations.

[33:25]And I felt like there was a whole new way to do it.

[33:27]And why not try?

[33:28]And I kept waiting.

[33:29]And then I was like, well, maybe I'm the person

[33:31]who's supposed to do this.

[33:32]Why not me?

[33:33]What if I try it?

[33:34]So I partnered with Lee Newman, who is in the publishing,

[33:37]has been in the publishing world forever.

[33:39]She used to be at Oprah and started Catapult books.

[33:42]So someone knew what they were doing a little bit.

[33:44]But she keeps saying, well, this

[33:46]is how it's done in publishing.

[33:47]And every day, I'm like, well, let's not do it that way.

[33:50]That's like, let's try it a different way.

[33:52]So we're shaking things up from distribution,

[33:56]how we're getting the word out.

[33:58]We're starting with this effort.

[33:59]We just launched called hashtag 22 and 22,

[34:02]where we're encouraging.

[34:03]And you all should sign up.

[34:04]People to go to bookstores 22 times in the year 2022.

[34:08]And I'll give out these little prizes and badges.

[34:11]And I'm going to make it like a fun thing.

[34:13]We get a sticker book.

[34:14]You did.

[34:14]You're going to get a sticker.

[34:15]You're going to get a badge.

[34:16]You're going to get all sorts of stuff.

[34:18]Somebody said, well, thank god, this is a lot better

[34:19]than a weight loss challenge for 2022.

[34:22]And so we're changing it up.

[34:24]We're doing profit sharing among all our authors.

[34:27]We're going to have a class of authors.

[34:29]All of the things we're doing counter some issue

[34:31]that we've seen.

[34:32]And we're starting book ambassadors all around the country

[34:35]to lift up the authors.

[34:37]And so are you looking to discover new authors?

[34:40]Or are you all, so that's part of it.

[34:42]But also you're celebrating published authors too.

[34:45]And I know that you have a new book,

[34:47]an anthology of essays written by some really impressive authors

[34:52]who were going to be meeting later tonight.

[34:54]They're coming up soon.

[34:56]I have two anthologies written by people who

[34:59]have all been on my podcast because they are amazing authors.

[35:02]And I love their books.

[35:03]And 11 of them are here tonight.

[35:05]And we're going to hear from them very soon.

[35:07]But yes, I couldn't get enough.

[35:09]When I do my podcast, they're about 30 minutes long.

[35:12]And I always want to know more.

[35:13]So I thought this would be a good way

[35:15]to get original content from some amazing writers.

[35:18]And that's how the anthologies came to be.

[35:20]And it's so great because it's really

[35:21]hard to get attention for books.

[35:24]It's really challenging.

[35:26]And so for you to be able to bring attention.

[35:30]And that's what we're trying to do, too, at my company

[35:33]and make sure that some of these writers

[35:36]that people know about them, and especially

[35:39]the first time authors.

[35:40]So I think it's wonderful what you're doing.

[35:42]And by the way, Zippy's a real smarty pants.

[35:45]She's being modest.

[35:46]But you know, she went to Yale and Harvard Business School.

[35:49]And so she knows what she's doing.

[35:51]So don't act all like, I had to get someone

[35:53]who knew what they were doing.

[35:55]I had been in publishing.

[35:58]You're a good business woman.

[36:00]So own it, sister.

[36:02]OK, great.

[36:05]No, I'm kidding.

[36:07]Well, thank you so much, Katie, and to everybody.

[36:10]Thank you for watching.

[36:12]Thank you.

[36:15]Thank you.

[36:16]Thanks, Zippy.

[36:18]Thanks for listening to this episode of Moms Don't

[36:21]Have Time to Read Books.

[36:22]Don't forget to follow me on Instagram, at Zippy Owens,

[36:25]and at Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books.

[36:27]Also sign up for my newsletter at zippyowens.com

[36:30]and sign up for my virtual book club

[36:31]and meet lots of authors on Zoom every other week.

[36:34]Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan.

[36:35]I'm at Texture Sound for the Sound Editing.

[36:38]And thank you to Morning Moon Productions

[36:40]for providing this fantastic intro and outro music.