JJ Heller, HAND TO HOLD
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[2:03]JJ Heller is the author of Hand to Hold,
[2:06]and I interviewed her along with her husband, Dave.
[2:09]JJ is known for crafting hopeful and contemplative songs of peace for the child inside all of us.
[2:14]Her songs and lullabies are heard by millions of listeners every month,
[2:18]and she has donated over 100,000 copies of her album,
[2:21]I Dream of You, to hospitals, and families of young children.
[2:24]JJ lives in the Nashville area with her husband and their two daughters.
[2:28]Welcome, JJ Heller team.
[2:30]Thank you so much for coming on mom's and her time to read books,
[2:33]to discuss a hand to hold, and also your new single, and so much great stuff.
[2:37]Thanks, great to be here.
[2:39]I'm JJ, by the way.
[2:41]And I'm her husband, Dave.
[2:43]I'm a co-laborate, and I'm here for moral support.
[2:47]Love it. That's so cute. Oh my gosh.
[2:49]I don't think anybody's ever come on from moral support before,
[2:52]so that's very, very nice.
[2:55]I guess I could offer that to people.
[2:57]Bring whoever you want.
[2:58]You know.
[2:59]You'd like a moral support person.
[3:00]Yes, bring a friend.
[3:01]Let's see.
[3:02]Actually, that could be really fun.
[3:03]Maybe I'll start that in the new year, who knows.
[3:05]Okay.
[3:06]So you're an amazing singer, songwriter.
[3:10]JJ, it's amazing.
[3:11]Your work.
[3:12]I can't stop listening to your music.
[3:14]It is so soothing.
[3:16]It's amazing.
[3:17]And now you've turned your song into a book.
[3:19]So tell me about this whole process and how this particular song
[3:24]became this particular book, but also even how you got into this whole world.
[3:29]Yeah, wow.
[3:30]Okay.
[3:31]That's a lot of information.
[3:32]I am, I feel like I'm kind of a reluctant artist.
[3:37]Like I'm not the kind of person who needs to be on the stage.
[3:40]I'm more of an introvert.
[3:43]And so it kind of makes sense that the music I make is very quiet and
[3:49]introspective.
[3:50]But Dave and I met in college playing music.
[3:54]And one thing led to another, and we decided to get married and
[3:59]to pursue music as a career just to see like just to give it a shot.
[4:04]And so we said we'd give it one year.
[4:07]And then reassess at the end of that year.
[4:10]And it was a really close call.
[4:12]I mean, like we were barely paying our bills, mostly playing music for
[4:17]tips in Phoenix, Arizona in the summertime outside for like three hour sets.
[4:23]Yeah, we were working for it.
[4:26]Yeah, we were working for about 18 years ago.
[4:29]So we've come a long way.
[4:31]Yes, that was like we got married in 2003.
[4:34]And then it was just kind of like a series of,
[4:37]a baby steps trying to figure out what kind of music we wanted to make.
[4:41]And at first, we wanted to, you know, like be a little bit edgy and cool.
[4:47]And I had grown up listening to Ilana's Morris set and like Natalie
[4:52]Mary she'd and so we thought, well, maybe we can make music like that.
[4:55]That did not, but that was not a good fit.
[4:58]But then over the years, we discovered like that my voice sounds the best
[5:02]when I sing quietly.
[5:04]And so we just kind of fell into this singer songwriter thing.
[5:09]And then we had kids and started to write songs for them.
[5:14]And then we made an album called I Dream of You, full of lullabies
[5:18]and love songs that we had written for our own two little girls, Lucy and Nora.
[5:23]And we kind of put it out into the world thinking this is just a side project.
[5:27]It's something that's on our hearts to sing about.
[5:30]But you know, it'll probably never go anywhere.
[5:33]And then over the years, it just started to become my most popular album that I'd ever released.
[5:40]And, and we just started hearing all of these stories from parents.
[5:46]Kind of all over the world just saying that the music had an almost medicinal quality.
[5:53]Like it would change the atmosphere in the room when they put it on that their kids would calm down that they would calm down.
[6:00]And they would play it in hospital rooms when their kids were going in for procedures.
[6:05]Or, you know, we heard from foster parents that it was it just became a part of the routine when every they brought a new child or baby into their home.
[6:14]They would play our music and it would it would suit them.
[6:19]And I mean, you know, I read these messages and just like cry because I just feel so honored that my music could be a part of these like sacred moments for people.
[6:32]And so a few years ago, we decided to just sit down with another songwriter friend of ours named Andy Collehorn and thought we should write a song, like a song of encouragement like of blessing to sing over our children as they fall asleep.
[6:49]And so, as songwriters, we have the privilege of just taking several hours to think about okay, what do we want our children to know like what what are the things that are important to communicate.
[7:05]And our song hand to hold was born and the main theme of the song is may you never lose the wonder in your soul, because you know we grow up and we forget to notice all of the miraculous things that are happening around us.
[7:24]I think, you know, as as parents if we sit down and think about what do we want for our children.
[7:31]It's that they would no matter how old they get that they would walk through the world and and notice all of the wonders that surround us every day.
[7:43]So we put that song out into the world and just couldn't believe the the feedback about it and it quickly became one of my most popular songs and.
[7:55]And then one day just kind of out of the blue we got an email from water brick publishing saying would you be interested in turning that song into into a picture book and we said.
[8:08]Absolutely. And we started that process. Wow. What a story that's amazing. Did you get to pick your illustrator or how did that work. We did. Yes. And that was really important to us. We just put a lot of thought into.
[8:22]Every every note every lyric and then every visual aspect that goes along with everything that we create and so we took a lot of time like we we sent our publisher.
[8:33]Like a Pinterest board basically saying these are the types of illustrations we like and then they would do some research and then they would send us like four options and then we would choose one and they're like oh they're not available.
[8:47]And she you know there's an as a bunch more it was kind of a long process that we landed on this wonderful illustrator named Elissa Peterson and we loved her art mostly for the way that she captures the light.
[9:05]Do you want to talk about the illustrations at all. I mean you had a big hand. Sure. Yeah. I mean I was a photojournalism major back in another life when we were in college. And so yet paying attention to light was a really big deal for us.
[9:18]And Elissa comes from an animation background. And so it feels like just about every page of this book is like a still frame from an animated film and it communicates so much about place and emotion.
[9:36]So like the book works its way through the seasons and so you have like a beautiful fall image or a wintertime image or like one of my favorites is a springtime image of like daffodils that are growing and it's kind of from under like looking like a bug's life.
[9:53]And it feels like the perfect complement to the lyrics that already are so close to.
[10:00]the hearts of literally thousands of thousands and thousands of parents who listen to the song every night.
[10:05]That's amazing. Well, I have to say I read it to my son first before I played him the song.
[10:10]I had been listening to your music like I put it on my computer like right here when I'm like
[10:14]really stressed and working and I have it like in the background and I'm like okay, I'm listening
[10:18]to love by myself. Let's go messed up. But anyway, yes. So I read it to him and then we played
[10:23]the song and then then he wanted to read the book again and then he wanted to listen to the song
[10:26]again. And so it was really great how you engage people. So now I feel like you're going to end
[10:31]up doing an animated show or something now that you heard that in the world. That's very ambitious.
[10:41]I feel like what you were talking about though, like actually really captures the heart of
[10:46]the mission that we have where we actually we really love that children listen to JJ's music.
[10:53]But what we feel like we're doing is we're making music for the child inside everyone.
[10:58]And that child wants to be told everything's going to be okay. Like you're not alone.
[11:05]You can do this. There's beauty in the world. And that's a wonderful thing because it doesn't
[11:10]matter how old you are. You can still listen to a lullaby and find comfort there. And so we're
[11:16]very grateful that children listen. But I think a lot of the time we're talking to the child in a
[11:22]a lot of mothers as well. And speaking of aging and listening when you're older,
[11:29]your latest single, I I know I posted this on Instagram, but I put it in my stories. You're
[11:35]you know, I like forwarded it to my stories. And so many women were like, I needed this right now.
[11:40]Thank you so much. Like the so hit a chord because it's all about the beauty of being an older
[11:45]older woman, which nobody ever says talks about, discusses like it's always like the indignities
[11:53]of getting older, which are abundant. Yes. But like this embraces it and it's like it reframed
[12:01]aging. I was sobbing still on the floor with my son. I was like, oh my god. So I wanted to just
[12:07]play a little bit for listeners here. And then I want to encourage everybody to go watch the video
[12:13]as well, because that is awesome. Here, hold on. Unmute.
[12:29]Oh my gosh. It's so
[13:16]good. It's so good. Thank you. I mean, it's just beautiful. And you play the guitar. You
[13:22]like, you do the whole thing, right? Well, yeah. Yes. I mean, I play guitar. I play piano a little bit
[13:28]enough to write songs together with JJ and normally another co-writer. But then we we have
[13:36]wonderful collaborators here in Nashville, who we we take the song into the studio. Yeah, we're
[13:42]like here. Make it sound amazing. So yeah, we work with with some super, super talented people
[13:49]who help kind of realize the vision of JJ's material. Yeah. I mean, I think that that's really
[13:55]been the secret to our success, especially the last five years is just like keep working with
[13:59]people who are more talented than we are. And it's been amazing. But I think you should say something
[14:06]about growing older. Yeah. So it's just I'm 41. And when I was approaching my 40th birthday,
[14:15]I was just contemplating what it means to be getting older and just really noticing all of the
[14:25]messaging constantly coming through like billboards and commercials and like Instagram ads and it's
[14:31]all like anti-aging. And and that really struck me because it just I like my 30s was my favorite
[14:42]decade. Like I I would not go back to my 20s if you paid me. So it's like this weird, there's this
[14:49]pressure to to look like you're in your 20s, but then have the maturity of a 30 or 40 year old.
[14:56]And then it's it just it felt incongruous to me. And I just started wondering like maybe
[15:03]maybe aging is not something to be feared, but something to be celebrated. And started thinking
[15:11]about all the women in my life who I love spending time with. And and so many of them are older than me
[15:19]and they have so much to offer. And it just started making me sad to think like I wonder if these
[15:25]women spend their emotional energy trying to be 20 years old again. And and I hope not like and
[15:34]it just made me realize like, you know, still being alive in your 40s is is a gift that not everybody
[15:42]gets. And I just really wanted to write a song that conveys that message of there are so many
[15:52]wonderful memories that I've collected over the past 41 years that I would not trade for anything.
[15:59]And and I don't need to pretend that I'm 20 anymore. Like I love being 40. And so just trying to
[16:06]like, you know, give myself a pep talk. Like I I don't need to look like I'm in my 20s. I love being
[16:11]40 and that's okay. I needed to hear that today. Thank you. I'm 45 and yeah, I have sort of not
[16:22]adopted the whole anti-aging beauty routine. I'm I don't do any of the stuff. I mean, I've put on
[16:27]like moisturizer and I think about it a lot because so many and I live in New York City where,
[16:33]you know, a lot of people do a lot of things to their faces. And so I'm constantly confronted
[16:39]by these choices. Right. Why have I just it's not like I made up I was making a political statement.
[16:44]It's just I don't feel comfortable trying to like mess with my face. But then you're sending
[16:49]another message, which is like, I'm embracing my age. And do I, you know, is it the same thing as
[16:54]like, you know, not shaving your legs or something? Like, am I like neglecting a beauty thing? I'm
[16:59]supposed to be doing to be socially accepted. So yeah, I don't know. I think about this
[17:03]stuff as I'm sure most aging people do. And yeah. Well, and I think like I don't think that, you
[17:09]know, there's something inherently wrong with Botox or, you know, whatever everybody kind of has
[17:15]their threshold. But I just want women to know that they have a choice in the matter. Like, you
[17:19]don't, you don't have to get Botox if you don't want to. Like, you don't have to do, you don't
[17:25]have to dye your hair. Like, if if if you want your silver strands to come through, then like,
[17:31]then that's great. And that's a choice that I've made too. Like, that was kind of part of when I was
[17:36]about to turn 40, I decided that I was going to stop dyeing my hair. And I didn't at the time
[17:43]have, you know, a full head of gray hair, but like they were coming in. And so I had started
[17:47]dyeing my hair brown. And I just got to a point where, you know, a couple in my hair grows really
[17:55]fast. And so I would dye my hair. And then two weeks later, I would start to see these silver roots
[18:03]coming through. And I would just feel this like anxious feeling of, oh my gosh, I got to get back
[18:08]into the salon. And like, I got to fix this. I hope people aren't noticing. And it just,
[18:14]I didn't like how it made me feel just this anxiety. And I have a friend in the neighborhood who
[18:21]had already decided to stop dyeing her hair. And so I, I took her to coffee and I'm like, tell me
[18:28]everything. Like, what was this like? And how scary is it? And I got the courage on that day to,
[18:34]to stop dyeing my hair. And I am, I'm like, I love it. Like, all of the hair dye has grown
[18:42]out. And, and I'm not like, I'm probably only about, you know, maybe 8% gray hair is just like
[18:49]little different like glittery colors. Like it almost looks like my hair is highlighted.
[18:54]But I love it so much. And it turned from, oh my gosh, it's growing out. I'm like, I don't like
[19:01]this to like actually getting excited when I see like a new patch of like dark gray or like gray
[19:08]coming through. And it's, it's just been a really fun process for me. And it, and it just,
[19:14]there's a line in the song that says it looks like strands of silver and it feels like being free.
[19:20]Yeah. And that is exactly my experience where it's like, I'm not, I don't feel like I'm
[19:27]hiding anymore or like watching the clock tick down to like when I need to go back to this
[19:32]salon again. It's just like, no, this is, I'm 41 and I have gray hair and like take it or leave it.
[19:38]Like I, I'm, I'm so happy of like all of the years I've lived up to this point and I don't need to
[19:46]feel ashamed that I'm 41 and still alive, you know. I'm not ashamed, but I definitely
[19:52]don't have my hair. So, in fact, I like it, you know, but I can go like three months.
[20:00]So it's not as much of an advantage for things.
[20:02]But I did stop getting my nails done once the pandemic hit
[20:05]because that was how I felt.
[20:06]Like as soon as you get in, then they chipped in.
[20:07]They have to go back.
[20:08]I'm like, this is so stupid.
[20:09]I'm just not going to do this at all.
[20:10]Like why?
[20:11]Well, all the time.
[20:12]So anyway.
[20:13]Well, yeah, I mean, it's like just paying attention
[20:16]to like, am I doing this because it's fun?
[20:19]Like because it feels like pampering myself
[20:20]because it feels like a treat, like doing your nails.
[20:22]Or does it start feeling like a burden?
[20:25]Like, oh, I have to go back in because I feel like really
[20:28]self conscious about how my nails, you know?
[20:30]Like, right, right.
[20:31]It's just like, is this fun or is it a burden?
[20:33]And then, and then make your decision from there.
[20:36]Totally.
[20:36]Well, I just love your song.
[20:38]And I hope that you, I don't know if you're even trying,
[20:41]but it should be with like some big dove ad campaign somewhere,
[20:45]you know, it should be.
[20:47]Anyway, and I'd love to introduce you.
[20:49]My husband's a producer and he has a music arm of his business
[20:52]called Morning Moon Music.
[20:53]And they do a lot of original songs for movies and things
[20:56]like that.
[20:57]And I played him your songs.
[20:58]And he's like, oh my gosh.
[20:59]And they actually have a movie coming out
[21:00]called Wildflower.
[21:01]And in your song, like, I know.
[21:03]So I was like, well, maybe you could use this song
[21:05]for your movie.
[21:06]So I don't know if you would give him an talking,
[21:09]but they also have these two amazing guys,
[21:12]Dan and Mike, who score, you know, score anything
[21:15]like the probably the smart people you're referencing
[21:17]with your vocals, you know, they'll do all that too.
[21:21]So anyway, I would love to put you all in touch
[21:23]because I think you can make great stuff together
[21:24]if you're in the market for that.
[21:26]So yeah, sounds awesome.
[21:28]Okay.
[21:29]Well, one of the things that I wanted to say kind of following up
[21:33]on the fact that like that song is a single of JJ's.
[21:36]It's like her first song of this year,
[21:39]about five years ago, six years ago,
[21:42]we started this practice of just releasing a new song
[21:47]on the first Friday of every month.
[21:48]I saw that.
[21:49]That's amazing.
[21:50]And so many songs, I know, well, I mean, it's like,
[21:54]it's sort of the equivalent of making a record,
[21:56]but we just end up stretching it out across an entire year,
[22:01]right?
[22:01]But it is basically a discipline.
[22:04]It's like we go into the studio, we have material,
[22:08]and we just consistently let these songs kind of be what they are.
[22:13]And Hand to Hold, which became the book,
[22:15]was one of those singles kind of early in this process.
[22:19]But I think that practice of just releasing new content
[22:23]on a consistent basis,
[22:25]it kind of dovetails with this conversation about freedom.
[22:29]Because for most of the music industry's history,
[22:33]it was like go into some hovel and work on your material
[22:38]for like three years and keep the top secret,
[22:41]and then bring it out into the world.
[22:42]And either it's a massive success or it's a flop.
[22:45]And we just don't believe in that philosophy.
[22:50]And fortunately, the way that streaming and all of that works,
[22:55]it's like it doesn't have to be that way anymore.
[22:58]It's like we can just make the process of releasing
[23:02]whatever our creativity brought us
[23:07]for the month out into the world.
[23:09]And then if somebody doesn't like that,
[23:11]they can listen next month and hear something new.
[23:14]It's amazing.
[23:15]Do your kids judge the songs?
[23:17]Do you like play the songs with them?
[23:18]They're like, yeah, you're nice.
[23:22]I mean, we don't normally ask for their opinions,
[23:26]but they offer them very willingly.
[23:29]But they hear our music all the time
[23:33]because when we're writing a song, they hear it.
[23:37]When we have a rough mix of the song, we play it
[23:40]like in the car or like on our living room sound system
[23:44]to kind of hear it in different contexts.
[23:46]And so they get tired of the songs
[23:48]even before they're finished and released.
[23:51]And it's all they've ever known.
[23:53]And so they're like totally unimpressed.
[23:56]And the kind of songs they listen to
[23:59]are more like pop or rock.
[24:02]And that's not the kind of music that we make.
[24:05]What I will say though is that it's actually
[24:08]like a real compliment to us if the song is playing
[24:11]and we just notice them humming or singing along
[24:14]kind of mindlessly.
[24:15]It's sort of like, oh, that's a good song.
[24:18]But the kids are just sort of like absorbing
[24:23]the material and just kind of enjoying it with,
[24:27]I mean, so much of Jesus content is so kind of like mellow
[24:30]and reflective.
[24:31]It's not necessarily like stand up and dance
[24:34]on the tabletop or something.
[24:36]That's okay.
[24:39]There's a time and a place, as I say, like it's not a joke.
[24:43]This, you know, usually not the one
[24:46]you're doing right now, anyway.
[24:49]Well, thank you guys so much.
[24:51]This has been so enjoyable.
[24:52]I am so glad that I've sort of discovered all your music
[24:57]and all this stuff by your book,
[24:58]which I bet many, many people well.
[25:00]So it's really awesome.
[25:01]You have a children's book reflecting your song.
[25:04]Hopefully one of many to come.
[25:06]And I just really want you to do something
[25:08]amazingly big and cool with the song
[25:10]because it should be everywhere.
[25:11]Everybody over a certain age should have to hear it
[25:14]and watch it and feel good.
[25:16]And it's just amazing.
[25:17]So whatever I can do to help that, you know,
[25:19]can't be it.
[25:21]Oh, well, thank you so much.
[25:23]Great. Well, thank you guys so much.
[25:25]Have a good one.
[25:26]Thank you.
[25:26]So nice to meet you.
[25:27]Thanks for all the music.
[25:28]Thank you.
[25:29]You're welcome.
[25:30]All right, see you again.
[25:31]Bye.
[25:32]Bye.
[25:33]Thanks for listening to this episode of Moms.
[25:35]Don't have time to read books.
[25:37]Don't forget to follow me on Instagram
[25:39]at zibi Owens and at Moms.
[25:40]Don't have time to read books.
[25:42]Also sign up for my newsletter at zibi Owens.com
[25:44]and sign up for my virtual book club
[25:46]and meet lots of authors on Zoom every other week.
[25:49]Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan.
[25:50]In fact, texture sound for the sound editing.
[25:52]And thank you to Morning Moon Productions
[25:54]for providing this fantastic intro and out trim music.