Corie Adjmi, LIFE AND OTHER SHORTCOMINGS: Stories
[0:01]Hi, I'm Sivi Owens, and you're listening to the award-winning podcast,
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[0:37]Hi, hello.
[0:38]Enjoy the show.
[0:40]Corey Adjmy is the author of Life and Other Shortcomings.
[0:44]Stories.
[0:45]Corey's award-winning fiction and personal essays have appeared in dozens of publications,
[0:49]including North American Review, Indiana Review, South Dakota Review,
[0:52]Huff Post, Mother Well and Cveller.
[0:54]Life and Other Shortcomings, her collection of short stories,
[0:56]is Corey's first book-length publication and has won an American Fiction Award,
[1:00]a Best Books Award, and I-B-P-A Ben Franklin Award.
[1:04]She currently lives in New York.
[1:05]Welcome, Corey.
[1:06]Thank you so much for coming on Moms Don't Have Time to read books to discuss life
[1:10]and other short-coming stories.
[1:13]Thank you so much for having me.
[1:14]So happy to be here.
[1:15]I'm delighted to talk to you.
[1:17]I feel like I sort of know you having read many of your essays on your website and everything.
[1:23]And I do want to talk about this book.
[1:24]Can we first discuss your becoming a doula and parting traffic on Fifth Avenue
[1:29]to have your daughter give birth despite the traffic?
[1:33]That is a heroic mom story, I have to say.
[1:36]You know, it's a story that it just couldn't have happened any other way.
[1:40]We were totally in gridlock and I was her doula.
[1:44]I did become a doula because it was COVID and I wasn't going to be able to go into the hospital room with her
[1:49]unless I did that.
[1:51]And then we were just stuck.
[1:52]I was looking around and there was just no way for her to get there.
[1:55]And I could tell by her face that she was really ready to give birth.
[1:59]And when we got finally, I did get out block traffic.
[2:03]We started to move and she was nine centimeters when we got there.
[2:07]It's unbelievable.
[2:09]I'm an unbelievable story.
[2:10]It really was.
[2:11]I love even the point of the larger point you were making in your essay,
[2:15]in addition to telling us this very amusing story,
[2:18]which is why does someone who goes through a random certification process,
[2:23]not to undermine doula is in all that they do, which is amazing.
[2:26]But why do moms not get equal respect when they've,
[2:29]you know, they've done way more than take red a pamphlet about breastfeeding.
[2:33]They've breastfed themselves for like you 16 months or something.
[2:36]So why the disparity?
[2:38]Why do you have to prove your worth?
[2:40]Or why do some people get sanctions when mothers work as sort of not acknowledge
[2:45]with some sort of badge or entree even to an exam room during COVID?
[2:50]Anyway.
[2:51]The point was definitely not to put down doula's.
[2:54]No, of course not.
[2:55]Yes.
[2:56]The line and we do beautiful work.
[2:58]It was more just to elevate the role of mom.
[3:00]It was like let's just remember to give mom some of the credit that they deserve
[3:05]because often goes, oh, it's because, you know, unseen, I think.
[3:10]And do you, are you now a doula?
[3:12]Have you helped other people?
[3:14]No.
[3:15]I thought I was the one.
[3:16]I thought I might, but thankfully writing has been going really well.
[3:21]And things are, you know, I'm busy.
[3:23]I'm really, really busy.
[3:24]And I'm excited about it.
[3:26]Yeah.
[3:27]So your next novel, what's it called?
[3:28]Marriage, the marriage box.
[3:29]The marriage box.
[3:30]Yes.
[3:31]Yes.
[3:32]And we haven't even talked about this one.
[3:33]But what is that one going to be about?
[3:34]No, the marriage box is a novel.
[3:36]And it's based on my real life, but it's totally fiction.
[3:39]I did grow up in New Orleans and moved to the Orthodox Syrian Jewish community in Brooklyn.
[3:46]I was 16 having no idea what that community life would be like.
[3:50]I didn't grow up or at the docs.
[3:52]And I didn't even know anything about my Sephardic background.
[3:55]So it was culture shock.
[3:58]And so I think the book started out as like a way to kind of dig into some of the trauma.
[4:03]But it took me a really long time to write it because I wanted to write it from a very respectful place.
[4:08]And I needed enough distance from it to be able to write it with a little bit of humor.
[4:13]But it is about a young girl coming from New Orleans to this community in Brooklyn.
[4:18]And getting married to 18, which is part of the tradition of the community.
[4:26]I feel like you must have gotten married to 18 because you have five children and you are a grandmother.
[4:31]And I feel like we're the same age.
[4:33]So I don't know how you must have started very early.
[4:36]I swore I wouldn't get married to 18, but I did.
[4:40]Wow.
[4:41]Yeah.
[4:42]That sounds like ludicrous to say today.
[4:46]It just seems so ridiculous.
[4:48]But I'm still and you're still married to the same man.
[4:51]Yeah.
[4:52]Good for you.
[4:53]I write a lot.
[4:54]I write about marriage a lot.
[4:55]And yeah, it's not easy.
[4:57]Always.
[4:58]You know, we have our good moments, but I write about it a lot to commitment.
[5:02]And you're first essay in life and other shortcomings.
[5:05]Not essay.
[5:06]Sorry story.
[5:07]It's all about that.
[5:08]It's all about long term marriages.
[5:10]And what do you sort of sacrifice of yourself and what do you hide and what do you share?
[5:17]And how do you navigate when the person you're doing?
[5:22]I loved how you said they were like these little jabs, right?
[5:25]Like these tiny little things that make you bristle.
[5:27]And maybe it's one today, twice a day.
[5:29]but over time, they just accumulate until you have hundreds of these little just tiny little things.
[5:35]And how that can wear you down too.
[5:37]So tell me a little more about this story.
[5:39]Well, you know, it's so funny.
[5:41]Because sometimes people will be like, oh, you're so honest.
[5:43]Like I can't believe you wrote that.
[5:45]And I'm always like, I know I'm not the only one who's experienced this.
[5:49]I know people know what I'm talking about.
[5:51]So it doesn't feel like I'm revealing anything.
[5:54]I would have be ordinary.
[5:55]I'm sure some people jab their spouse more than others.
[5:59]And that story was a way to examine that and look at that and the damage it can cause.
[6:06]And to have people just see themselves, you know, and to pay attention.
[6:11]Because sometimes people take their relationships for granted.
[6:15]You know, and they don't realize that they need to really cherish the relationship if they want it to last.
[6:21]What do you think about the idea that you threw out in the story?
[6:25]Which of course I've heard before of this, like, do we re up the marriage contract on a more regular basis?
[6:33]Like, should this be an expiring offer so to speak?
[6:37]Or should we go five years and then say like, hey, is this working for both of us?
[6:41]Should we keep going versus committing our entire lives now that we live till almost 100 years old?
[6:46]And we used to as a human species or whatever.
[6:49]Yeah.
[6:50]Obviously, not much younger.
[6:52]So what do you think you think that would be good or bad?
[6:55]I thought of everything.
[6:57]Over all these years, I've had every thought you could possibly have.
[7:03]But pretty much we've stuck to the traditional model so far.
[7:08]You also wrote in such a funny way about sort of body image and poking fun at the women ordering,
[7:15]which of course we've all like either been or eaten with or been at certain times,
[7:20]the person who is ordering everything on the side or, you know, being the one to really give the waitress
[7:27]or waiter a hard time and poking fun.
[7:30]It's sort of that person who I feel is particularly prevalent, although now I like never go out to dinner anymore.
[7:35]But back in the day, pre COVID was rampant.
[7:40]Tell me about that character.
[7:42]It's very New York to me too.
[7:44]Like to even have that luxury, you know, that, you know, maybe another place is now.
[7:50]You can do that a little bit more.
[7:52]But it took other cities a little time to catch up like to because the story takes place in the 90s.
[7:58]So, you know, at the time, I think New York was just a little bit more ahead in the way that you could go into a restaurant and be so particular and order things on the side and not have onions and garlic or whatever you don't like.
[8:11]And in other cities, maybe you couldn't do that as much.
[8:14]Today, maybe you can.
[8:16]But it was just another way to like New York is kind of a character in the book too.
[8:20]So it was a little, you know, way to show the city and how it operates and what goes on there.
[8:27]And that was that thought.
[8:29]And this book is presented as a series of linked stories.
[8:33]Why did you choose that form versus one narrative or keeping, yeah, keeping one character's journey,
[8:40]sort of throughout and why this format?
[8:44]Each story was originally a standalone piece that was written on its end.
[8:49]I wrote one short story and I just thought, let me see if I can get it published.
[8:53]And then when I did, I was like, is that just a lucky break?
[8:56]Well, I've been able to do it again.
[8:57]And I tried one story at a time for a while.
[9:00]And at some point, I said, I think I'll try a novel which turned out to be a whole different process and much more difficult for me.
[9:09]But once I wrote, you know, a lot of short stories and I was getting them published,
[9:15]I thought that the characters in the stories might know each other.
[9:19]And the themes were familiar and similar.
[9:22]So I thought I could put these in a book.
[9:25]I could make this a collection.
[9:27]And then the characters would have like a longer arc.
[9:31]You get to see them in other stories.
[9:34]So even though it's a collection, you get a longer arc and it feels novel like a little bit.
[9:40]I always, at the time, I was reading Olive Kidderage by Elizabeth Strath,
[9:45]and I visit from the Goon Squad by Jennifer Egan.
[9:48]And I think those books were really inspiring to me.
[9:52]Just because they're told in stories.
[9:54]That's so funny because this is, I've done three podcasts today and two out of the three.
[9:59]three.
[10:00]now have mentioned all of Kitra and Phyla's with Strad.
[10:02]Wow, funny, right?
[10:04]It's like, it was with Strad Day for me, I don't know.
[10:07]I have to pull that one down, dig that good.
[10:11]Speaking of reading, what are you reading now?
[10:14]Like what types of book do you generally like to read?
[10:16]I have been reading a little bit of everything,
[10:19]a little bit of nonfiction.
[10:21]I just bought the great,
[10:24]like can I think the short stories collection from 2017
[10:27]because I was trying to get the kindest,
[10:30]the short story that has been talked about a lot.
[10:32]It was in the New York Times article
[10:34]about who's the bad art friend.
[10:37]And I was really, not story of read like every essay on it.
[10:41]I just was totally fascinated.
[10:43]So it wasn't, I have every one of those books
[10:46]like every year except for 2017 for some reason, was missing.
[10:50]So I had to go order that one.
[10:52]I just bought Clara and the sign.
[10:54]I just finished, actually, I have like 60 pages left
[10:58]of a book of Michelle Weinstein.
[11:00]This is not how this ends.
[11:01]She gave me a blur book.
[11:03]Oh yeah, another show.
[11:05]Yeah, she's awesome.
[11:06]She's awesome.
[11:07]She's that book, yep.
[11:09]Yup.
[11:10]And I have like 60 pages left and I'm really enjoying it.
[11:12]Wow, that's exciting.
[11:15]So how did you tell me about raising five kids
[11:19]and when the writing got done,
[11:22]when like did you, like you're publishing now,
[11:25]what was life like before?
[11:27]I know you've always been doing essays,
[11:29]but like tell me a little more about the writing journey
[11:31]from 18 when you got married.
[11:34]Oh, well, well, there wasn't one originally.
[11:36]I was an art major, then I went into education.
[11:39]I was a teacher for a while.
[11:41]And when I was doing my graduate work,
[11:43]I took classes on storytelling.
[11:46]And when I graduated, I did my thesis on the power of storytelling
[11:50]and the study of a family
[11:51]on the Syrian Jewish community in Brooklyn.
[11:54]And I was so fascinated by the stories,
[11:57]not only the listening to the stories,
[11:59]but then the telling of the transcribing them
[12:02]and analyzing them and learning from them.
[12:05]And then also I was using the stories in my classroom
[12:08]and just seeing how you can learn about your students
[12:10]through stories.
[12:11]I just was fascinated with stories.
[12:13]So when I had my youngest, I was home nursing
[12:17]and I took a class that got the writers kind of for fun.
[12:21]I was in like mid to late 30s, mid 30s when she was born.
[12:25]So I took a class on fiction just kind of for fun.
[12:28]And you know, and I like to do this.
[12:30]I like to give a shout out to teachers
[12:32]because my teacher took me to the side and said,
[12:35]like you have talent, you should do something.
[12:38]And I don't, I would have never known.
[12:41]I would have never pursued writing.
[12:43]It wasn't a dream.
[12:44]It wasn't something I thought about.
[12:46]It wasn't ever something I could actually do.
[12:48]And her saying that to me really was the pivotal moment.
[12:52]And she said, you should go to bread loaf,
[12:54]which I had never heard of.
[12:55]It's a really prestigious workshop conference.
[12:59]And I applied and I got in and submitted my first short story.
[13:03]It got published.
[13:04]And it was really like that.
[13:06]Like one story at a time slowly.
[13:09]Just, you know, transitioning from teacher to stay home,
[13:15]getting one story published, you know, starting a novel
[13:19]and starting a blog and writing some of those essays
[13:22]that you read.
[13:23]And it's just been one day at a time.
[13:26]Wow.
[13:27]And really a lot of perseverance a lot.
[13:31]And then you wrote about the marketing side,
[13:35]like having to put your marketing head on
[13:37]when you're dealing with books,
[13:39]which I'm familiar with.
[13:41]And, you know, you try to new collaborative technique
[13:45]to market your book.
[13:47]And talk about that.
[13:49]Yeah, I used my daughter.
[13:53]No, I had a pair.
[13:54]Oh, okay, not free.
[13:57]With right when COVID hit and says she was home board.
[14:01]And my book came out.
[14:04]I got my arcs, my advanced reader copies in March of 2020.
[14:08]I mean, literally it was the week
[14:10]when we weren't supposed to be touching boxes that arrived.
[14:13]So my boxes of books were like in the hallway.
[14:15]We had to like wait till like we were school loved up
[14:18]and ready to go get them.
[14:19]And it was really the height of everything.
[14:22]And then I didn't market for like,
[14:24]I didn't even say anything for probably at least two months
[14:27]and waited till May.
[14:28]Because, I mean, I just,
[14:31]I couldn't think about talking about a book
[14:33]at that point.
[14:33]People were scared and it just wasn't the time.
[14:35]But anyway, my daughter was home and bored.
[14:38]And I was, you know, trying to gear up
[14:41]to getting this book out to the world.
[14:43]And she's great on Instagram.
[14:45]So I said, you know, do you wanna work together?
[14:48]And so we worked together and we created
[14:50]some really fun content.
[14:51]And it just made it a lot easier.
[14:53]First of all, she was like, you know,
[14:55]putting it together and pushing, you know,
[14:58]post or whatever.
[14:58]I didn't have to do that part.
[15:00]And when I feel a little hesitant
[15:02]about putting something out there,
[15:04]she was really great in saying,
[15:06]no, you can do this, mom.
[15:09]And it was a great experience working together.
[15:12]That's so nice.
[15:13]Yeah.
[15:14]One summer, I tried to pay my son,
[15:16]who, I don't know, this was a couple years ago,
[15:18]to like organize all the t-shirts I'd ordered
[15:21]and like to try to start this online swag store
[15:25]for moms at a time to read books
[15:27]and like no one bought anything.
[15:29]And he was like, mom, you know,
[15:30]and I think anybody wants to t-shirts.
[15:32]And that's like, okay, fine.
[15:34]You're fired.
[15:35]But it was really fun when like,
[15:37]what you're worried about and concerned about
[15:40]and focused on is the same as your kids.
[15:42]It takes your relationship to a different place
[15:45]where there's something and they get it.
[15:47]And then like they get it from now on, right?
[15:49]Perhaps you can refer back to that moment
[15:52]and, you know, oh, what do you think?
[15:53]Should I start selling can?
[15:54]Oh, mom, I don't know, remember two years ago?
[15:56]So, yeah.
[15:58]And like you said, we shared parts of our lives
[16:01]that we probably would have shared.
[16:02]She ended up getting really involved
[16:04]in what I was doing.
[16:04]You know, what my plans were and where she might not have.
[16:08]Like we didn't have that.
[16:09]So yeah, that was a next one.
[16:11]And now you're already focusing on your August 2022 book.
[16:15]Yeah.
[16:16]So that's exciting.
[16:17]Exciting.
[16:19]This one I'm working on for a long time.
[16:21]This is really gonna be, I'm still editing.
[16:23]I'm working on my copy of it.
[16:24]So I'm like, I can't believe there's gonna be a time
[16:26]in my life where I'm not reworking this book.
[16:29]Yeah.
[16:30]I've been working it and reworking it
[16:32]for a lot of years.
[16:35]I think I got it now.
[16:37]I think it's, I'm really happy with how it came out.
[16:40]Like really worth the work.
[16:43]That's so great.
[16:44]That's great to hear.
[16:45]Do you have any new marketing plans for this one?
[16:48]I got a little better at Instagram myself.
[16:50]So I do it myself sometimes now,
[16:54]but maybe when that time comes in,
[16:56]I have to do it a little bit more for a couple of months.
[16:58]Maybe she'll wanna help me out again.
[16:59]We'll see.
[17:00]Well, so, let's try it again.
[17:04]Do you have more essays or books or stories
[17:07]that you're itching to get going on now?
[17:10]Yeah, I have another novel that kind of done.
[17:14]Done.
[17:15]Wow, that's impressive.
[17:16]But whatever for a lot of years before,
[17:18]I even tried to get anything published.
[17:20]So which worked out really great
[17:23]because I can't even imagine trying to like do talk.
[17:26]I mean, I can't get over what you do,
[17:27]but I can't imagine doing all the speaking
[17:31]I've been doing and marketing and all the stuff
[17:34]and trying to write something new.
[17:36]I just, my, you know, I can do like adiacs
[17:39]and I can do short pieces
[17:40]but to be trying to write another novel now
[17:43]seems like it would be really hard.
[17:45]So I'm happy.
[17:46]I'm happy with how it worked out.
[17:48]A lot of people think we'd have a hard time
[17:50]waiting so long to get recognition.
[17:52]But you didn't.
[17:53]To be published now.
[17:54]And you know, I went back and forth.
[17:59]It's a tool.
[18:00]I am not writing a novel, by the way.
[18:02]So I also think it would be very hard
[18:04]to be writing a novel and promoting a lot of authors
[18:08]say guiltily like, oh, well, you know,
[18:11]I'm not really writing anything
[18:12]because I'm focused on this promotion.
[18:13]It's like, well, yeah, I get it.
[18:15]That's like a totally different job.
[18:17]Like you basically have to stop writing
[18:18]and be a full-time marketer for at least a month.
[18:22]Maybe I think every author should clear their calendar
[18:26]around a month, not that they will,
[18:28]but because there's just so much
[18:31]that goes on that you don't even have anyway.
[18:32]But yeah, there's a lot required
[18:33]and it's just so hard to stand out.
[18:35]This is like, anyway, I could go on on this for a while.
[18:38]Yeah.
[18:39]And what about your other kids?
[18:41]Are they invested in your career
[18:42]and do they read your books and what's that been like for you?
[18:46]Yeah, they read life in other shortcomings
[18:48]and they're really excited about the marriage box
[18:51]because they know it's based on my life,
[18:52]even though it's, I mean, all the details are made off.
[18:55]It's totally fiction,
[18:56]but that the premise is based on my life.
[18:58]Yeah, they're excited.
[18:59]They're really great cheerleaders.
[19:01]They all have like their different thing
[19:03]that they'll do for me, you know?
[19:04]My son-in-law sent me an email last night saying,
[19:07]here are like 184 different boxes
[19:11]you could use to put your book in to send to people.
[19:14]Oh, really?
[19:15]Just random things they'll do for me.
[19:19]So you should talk to Christina Geist,
[19:22]she's a children's book author,
[19:24]best-selling children's book author.
[19:25]And she's also like a marketing guru
[19:29]and runs a company called Boombox.
[19:33]And they make these customized beautiful boxes
[19:36]and they have this way of easily having people collaborate
[19:40]on a box.
[19:41]So if it's someone's birthday getting 27 people
[19:44]to like put in a quote and then they print it
[19:47]and make it look pretty and then put it in the box
[19:49]and make it a package,
[19:51]but that could be an interesting box for you
[19:54]because you could customize it
[19:56]with like some of the quotes from your book.
[19:58]I don't know.
[19:58]I'll check it out.
[19:59]Jeff.
[20:00]Yeah, I can put the two of you in touch or it's called boombox gifts, boombox gifts, but I don't know just a thought
[20:07]Thank you. So what advice would you have for aspiring authors? I never give up. If you want to do it
[20:14]If that's your dream, do not give up. You keep two things. I would say you have to always work on your craft
[20:20]We got to just make it as good as you can make it and don't give up. Yeah, yeah, you just can't give up
[20:27]There's a lot of rejection involved. There's so much competition. So many people want to be writer or so many
[20:32]You just tell your best story and don't give up and get it out there. Love that
[20:37]Amazing
[20:39]Well Corey, thank you so much
[20:40]It's been so nice to chat about your book and all these great stories
[20:45]You're a really great writer and I'm glad that you're getting your stuff out into the world
[20:50]Better late than never type of thing, you know, it's really awesome and inspiring
[20:56]It's just really inspiring. Thank you. Xavier. This was so nice
[20:59]I do feel like we're like neighbors. We're so close and that's crazy. I know. I can't believe it
[21:05]Well, I'm sure we're all like walking out the door in five minutes and bump into you
[21:08]Yeah, yeah, well, we'll have to do that intentionally very soon
[21:15]Thank you so much. All right. Thank you and congratulations. Thank you. Thank you. Okay, bye
[21:23]Thanks for listening to this episode of mom's don't have time to read books
[21:27]Don't forget to follow me on Instagram at zebi Owens and at mom's don't have time to read books
[21:32]Also sign up for my newsletter at zebiowens.com and sign up for my virtual book club and meet lots of authors on zoom every other week
[21:39]Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan at texture sound for the sound editing
[21:43]And thank you to morning moon productions for providing this fantastic intro and outro music