Poppy Harlow, THE BIGGEST LITTLE BOY: A Christmas Story
[0:01]Hi, I'm Sivi Owens, and you're listening to the award-winning podcast,
[0:05]Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books.
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[0:32]And now back to our daily author interview site and a quick hello from some of my kids.
[0:36]Hi, hi. Hello.
[0:38]Enjoy the show.
[0:41]Poppy Harlow is the author of The Biggest Little Boy, A Christmas Story.
[0:45]Poppy is a twice Emmy-nominated journalist who co-anchors the morning edition of CNN Newsroom
[0:51]and hosts the successful podcast, Boss Files with Poppy Harlow.
[0:55]Originally from Minnesota, she now lives in Brooklyn, New York with her husband,
[0:59]Senisa, and their children, Sienna and Luca. You can visit her online at Poppy Harlow, Sienna.
[1:05]Welcome, Poppy. I'm so excited to discuss the biggest little boy, A Christmas Story,
[1:10]your new children's book. I'm so happy to be here, Cindy. Thank you.
[1:14]I'm here on a mom of four.
[1:17]Here, a mom who like works at CNN, commutes to yell to go to law school.
[1:23]I mean, like, kid two kids, I mean, please, seriously.
[1:28]I'm thrilled to be here. Thank you for having me.
[1:31]I've had this interesting, uncomfortable feeling this week because people say things like that
[1:37]to be nice, which I appreciate and I love. But if they really saw how it really is,
[1:43]like people say, oh, what can't you do? Or you can do everything and I'm like, no,
[1:47]like, I'm just trying. At almost 40, I'm experimenting and trying different things
[1:52]in my life and it's really messy. And I'm not great at all of them, but I'm just trying them.
[1:58]And it feels really good to like, for someone who has tried for a lot of my life to be,
[2:05]well, none of us are ever perfect. So to strive for close to perfection, which I never achieve,
[2:10]to finally allow myself to not even get close to it and to just like embrace the messy and be
[2:15]okay with just being okay is the way that I've been putting it feels really good. And I'm like,
[2:22]genuinely smiling and happy because like, yes, I commute to New Haven to go to school or you
[2:27]went to school, but like, I am like, could it be lucky if I pass? I'm just like, graduate? Do not
[2:34]try to be top of your class because it is not happening this year. I love that. I saw you
[2:39]since I think similar with Savannah Gantria on your today's show appearance, which was amazing,
[2:44]by the way. And how you were like, I don't have to be top of my class. Like, I just have to pass
[2:48]at the past slide. I always valid, Victoria. I will tell you at the hot board town, law school.
[2:53]I will not be that, but I'm going to law school to learn to get better at my job that I love.
[3:01]You know, and to work by the ways, before this incredible I've been at CNN since 2008. So many
[3:07]years, this incredible employer, my boss, Jeff Zucker, who not only said yes, you can go,
[3:12]we're encouraging you like, we will make this work. You know, we will, we, you know, you don't
[3:17]have to anchor your show for the next nine months. You know, you can go do this and make it happen
[3:21]just, you know, like, work every holiday, which is the deal. That's remarkable. And I think it's
[3:29]a message to other employers right now. Like, if you can make this seemingly impossible happen
[3:36]for your employees, if you can make that possible, do it because they'll be forever loyal to you,
[3:41]like, forever loyal to you. And there are things that you can do to help build someone
[3:47]in ways that they couldn't do without your support. And that's, that's what I, that's why I
[3:53]feel so, so lucky. That's really amazing. That's so great. I know I went to business school
[3:59]by the way. And that was when I was there, while I was there, I lost my best friend on 9-11,
[4:04]which I talked about a lot on the show, but whatever. But it was the first time in my life,
[4:08]where I was like, okay, I, I am not even going to try to get good grades. Like, I have to pass.
[4:14]And I almost, I like to actually try to drop out, but I was like, not allowed to drop out. So
[4:18]you didn't convince me to just say, but I was like, I just, I can't fail, which is such a different
[4:24]approach for a perfectionist sort of the way I've grown up, which is always to try to do my best
[4:29]every minute and not that I didn't try, but it's a different mindset. And even with like all the
[4:33]stuff I'm doing now too, it's like, people are like, how do you do it? And I'm like, well, I make a ton
[4:37]of mistakes. I make mistakes all the time. You know, like, I don't know. It's not perfect. I
[4:41]just forgot, you know, my kid's dentist appointment or I don't, but there's always stuff,
[4:45]there's just always stuff dropping, but I don't know. Why not? But it's okay to let it drop and not
[4:50]catch all the balls. And like, you know, Glenn and Doyle, who says and writes so beautifully,
[4:56]we can do hard things. It really impacted me because I was like, well, this might be the hardest thing
[5:02]I ever tried to do, but I'm going to try, you know, and I've had so many moments of second guessing
[5:07]myself. I remember, oh my gosh, near the beginning of the semester, because it's like a two and a
[5:13]half hour commute from Brooklyn where we live almost three hours. So I take the subway from Brooklyn
[5:18]to Penn Station and then the Amtrak up to New Haven and then walk about like 20, 25 minutes to
[5:23]class and have my backpack, you know, and one that really bad storm in New York a few months ago,
[5:29]all the trains were obviously like canceled. And so I'm like, when to Penn Station, then the train,
[5:34]you know, train was canceled. So I'm like, treading through Times Square with my backpack on
[5:39]my Birkenstocks. Like, my brother, my savior calls me and he's like, I figured your train was
[5:45]canceled. Do you want me to drive you to New Haven? Oh, and he did. And I was like, but I was like,
[5:51]what am I doing? Like, I could be at CNN doing the job I love, like, going to sit in here and make
[5:57]up. But I'm like, treading through Times Square after a storm with a heavy backpack at my Birken
[6:04]am I doing there? And I'm like, not home nearly as much for my kids as I used to be because I don't
[6:09]get home until like late evening and I used to be home all afternoon after my show. And I was like,
[6:14]what am I doing? And that was a moment where I almost like, I was like, should I quit? Should I not do
[6:20]this? But then I was like, I just have to try just have to get through graduation in May, you know,
[6:24]and remind myself we can do hard things and want to privilege and blessing it is for me to be
[6:30]able to do this. Right? Most people do not have this kind of lead way with their with their employer.
[6:36]So, you know, I have to embrace that privilege and make the most of it. I'm so fascinated by this
[6:43]decision of yours. And I talk about this all day because I want to know like why, but I also want to
[6:47]just find out about your children's book and why you wrote it. And I loved also not to keep
[6:54]quoting your other interview, which I hate to do, but that, you know, what it was like to write
[6:58]about one child and not the other. Oh my gosh. Because I actually, I have my own children's book
[7:03]coming out and I dedicated it to one of my kids. I have four kids as yet. And the, my other daughter
[7:09]who wasn't, it didn't get the dedication just found out when I showed her like the printout.
[7:14]And she called me like crying. She was at her dad's like, sobbing. What? Why not me? Oh my gosh. And now
[7:20]I feel terrible. And I'm like, maybe the next one, you know, but then my son. Anyway, it's like,
[7:25]you can't do anything. You can't do anything. Right. Well, at least it's only your dedication.
[7:30]I wrote this whole book about this. Not about it. Yeah. So I, by the way, I looked at your children's
[7:37]book that's coming. I know it's coming. Yeah. It's just charming. And what I loved about it is the
[7:42]message of like what I'm good at. What she's good at is like keeping trying is being persistent.
[7:51]It's great. Because that's like, that's like, you know, almost like 90% of the battle in life is
[7:56]like persistent. Just be persistent. So I love that message. I did dedicate this book to both
[8:03]Sienna and Luca, but this is my, my two kids, but this is my way of trying to make up for
[8:07]only ready to book for Luca. By the way, Sienna's book is like very in the work. So it's coming.
[8:14]Good. The reason I wrote it was, as it's happened, it was a kind of a true story. I was carrying
[8:19]Luca about, you know, how children's books go. Right. It takes a long time to get them illustrated
[8:24]and COVID delays of shipping and everything. But I wrote, I wrote, I was walking through the
[8:29]Christmas tree market in Brooklyn on court street with Luca and the baby Bjorn are holding him
[8:33]or something. And you reached out to grab a Christmas tree. I'm like almost pulled the big Christmas
[8:38]tree over. And I was like, this would be a great book. And so I started, I wrote the idea down and
[8:47]I might to do cask lists as I do everything. And then I just started writing it. And it took
[8:52]like months. And then I got in touch with Tina Dubois, who's my fabulous book agent at ICM,
[8:57]and then Tamar, my publisher at Penguin. And, you know, we made some tweaks to it. And then
[9:03]found this great illustrator, Ramona Kalitski, who has just brought it to life. Really brought it to
[9:09]life. But, you know, the idea was like, how do I teach my kids? Yeah, there's her beautiful
[9:14]It's so great. I mean, people on the podcast, I'm doing this on visual, like, I'm holding up the
[9:18]book to show. Really. And she even added sparkles. Look, I know I can feel it. I, you know,
[9:24]you can pop. You have your hands on me. They like pop out, you know, but the idea was the message
[9:31]in the book is it's not all about big things. Like, it's not just big things that are special.
[9:36]I was trying to bring a little bit of my Minnesota roots and values to try to raise normal
[9:43]kids in New York City, where everything is, you know, there's so much excess and so many big
[9:49]things and so much going on to remind them that like the little things in front of us are the
[9:54]beautiful things and often the most perfect things. So true. It's such a good message. It's such
[10:00]a good story, even the size of how just taking life
[10:04]from somebody else's perspective, particularly our kids,
[10:07]like it must be scary going through
[10:09]this big, crowded world, it's a little.
[10:11]You know, and just remembering that like
[10:13]you don't need the biggest things.
[10:15]You don't need the biggest trees.
[10:16]You don't need what's right for you.
[10:18]And that's okay, and that's good.
[10:21]Right.
[10:22]Having a heart for things big, big and small is the message.
[10:27]But, you know, so Sienna's like not happy
[10:30]that this book is not about her.
[10:33]And I get it.
[10:34]I would be happy I heard this.
[10:36]I'm begging for her patience for the one about her to come out.
[10:38]What's that going to be about?
[10:40]I can't disclose all of it yet, but it is, let's just say
[10:44]it's about a superpower that she has inside of her.
[10:48]And then, to be honest, reading both my kids this book,
[10:51]like they didn't want any of it.
[10:54]Like, they like jumped out of the chair
[10:57]when I tried to film a video for social media.
[10:59]They're like, we're over it.
[11:00]We want the dinosaur book, you know.
[11:02]And then Luca told me this week,
[11:04]well mom, actually, I don't like little trees.
[11:07]I want my tree to touch the clouds.
[11:09]So I'm not sure the message resonated with them.
[11:11]That's okay.
[11:14]They're not your audience.
[11:14]They're like built in, you know.
[11:17]All right, I hope your kids like it were the by kids did.
[11:20]My kids loved it.
[11:20]My kid was.
[11:21]Thank you.
[11:23]It was so bad, amazing.
[11:25]So how did you end up at CNN to begin with?
[11:29]Like, can we go back to that for two seconds
[11:31]and talk about it all the time?
[11:33]But you were from Minnesota.
[11:35]You went to Columbia or no?
[11:36]Yeah, I went to Columbia.
[11:37]I went to Columbia.
[11:38]Yeah, I went to school.
[11:39]And so it's like a lot about following in his footsteps.
[11:42]And he died when I was young.
[11:44]And so I was 15 and so, and I'll buy a way to use a lawyer.
[11:48]So this is like the reason why I'm going to law school.
[11:51]How did you pass away?
[11:52]Can I ask Peter enough to tell me?
[11:54]Of course he had cancer.
[11:55]Oh, it's pretty fast.
[11:57]Four months in the hospital never came out enough.
[12:01]He was 49.
[12:03]So, but he was everything.
[12:05]He is everything.
[12:06]He's like, so with me and my job that I do,
[12:09]he's on my walls and looking up at something from him now.
[12:12]And he went to Columbia.
[12:13]So I wanted to follow in his footsteps.
[12:15]So yeah, I went to school in New York City.
[12:17]And I was going to go to law school right out of college.
[12:19]And then I started working in news
[12:21]while I was in college at CBS News and an internship.
[12:23]And it ended up working internally there for three years
[12:26]and loved it so much that I was like,
[12:29]okay, I'm going to do this news thing and try.
[12:33]And then started working my way up in local news.
[12:36]Here, I worked just less to learn so much here
[12:40]from CBS and my colleagues at CBS News Path.
[12:42]I would like transcribe interviews, run tapes
[12:45]from across the street to the studio and all that stuff.
[12:49]And then I was very fortunate to get hired by New York One
[12:54]and amazing New York news station.
[12:56]And they really taught me so much to film all of my own footage
[13:00]to edit it.
[13:02]I mean, we did everything.
[13:03]I was a Staten Island in New Jersey now, local reporter.
[13:06]And I drove my little station car out to Staten Island.
[13:10]Jersey would film my own segments and edit them,
[13:13]but it teaches you so much.
[13:15]And then from there, I went to forbs.com,
[13:18]video network, which is where I learned so much
[13:21]about business news and economic news.
[13:23]And so that's where I got my specialty.
[13:26]And from there, CNN hired me this great guy
[13:29]in Caleb Silver, who is still such a close friend,
[13:33]hired me.
[13:34]I was very lucky he took a chance on me.
[13:35]I'd never been on live television in my life.
[13:38]And I remember I went to the interview at CNN.
[13:41]I was like, so excited.
[13:43]And I go to his office and I still give him grief
[13:46]about this today.
[13:48]Because he was like, busy.
[13:50]He's like, I have to leave.
[13:51]And I was like, but it's our interview.
[13:53]And so I'm like, where are you going?
[13:55]He's like, I have to go to time ink,
[13:56]which was part of Time Warner at the time
[13:58]which was CNN, part of our company before the spin-off.
[14:01]And I was like, well, I'll come with you.
[14:03]So I did my interview with him on the subway.
[14:05]So persistent, right?
[14:06]Your message in the book.
[14:08]I was just like, I'm not leaving.
[14:10]This is my interview.
[14:11]Let's go.
[14:11]I talked to you on the subway.
[14:13]And he hired me and I started at CNN and I've never left.
[14:16]And I never want to leave.
[14:17]I love it so much.
[14:18]And then the market crashed.
[14:20]Remember 2008 financial crisis.
[14:22]So here I'm a business and economics reporter
[14:23]and I've done it to stock exchange.
[14:25]But I was like, junior, junior reporter
[14:28]only hired to do the website.
[14:30]And then it lant our headquarters called
[14:32]and they needed someone on like in the middle of the day.
[14:35]I was at the NASDAQ, stock exchange
[14:36]and the market was tanking.
[14:38]And they're like, well, put Poppy on.
[14:40]And I was like, I don't know how to do this.
[14:41]I've never done my TV.
[14:42]I can't do this.
[14:43]And they were like, just try.
[14:45]Like if I think Kalam's words were don't eff it up.
[14:47]So I tried not to.
[14:51]And then they wanted me next hour.
[14:53]And I was like, okay, I guess I was okay.
[14:55]And that was the beginning.
[14:56]Wow.
[14:57]That's amazing.
[14:59]And now you're going back to school.
[15:01]It's wild.
[15:02]It's great.
[15:03]And so what is the show, by the way,
[15:04]that you're doing on the side, the CNN class?
[15:07]Yeah, so this is exciting.
[15:09]I can't tell you what the show is.
[15:10]Sorry, but I can't tell you we launch in the first quarter
[15:14]and it is a show that I travel for.
[15:17]So basically every Friday, you don't have class.
[15:19]And so Fridays, I travel with this great team of producers
[15:23]and we get to talk to some really fascinating people
[15:27]about their journey and their stories.
[15:29]And it's long form, which is what I love, you know,
[15:32]and no commercial breaks.
[15:34]Wow.
[15:34]And we'll all stream on CNN plus in the first quarter.
[15:38]So that's been a real highlight and joy for me to get to do.
[15:41]So what else is on your big to-do list?
[15:44]But I want to peek at the list, like, let, what else is on it?
[15:49]Here's my to-do list of all the people
[15:50]that I think you know it's due today.
[15:53]That's my immediate to-do list.
[15:57]I really, for one of the first times in my life,
[16:01]don't really know what's next.
[16:03]And I'm really happy and fine with that,
[16:05]meaning I'm going to say it's CNN.
[16:07]I love CNN.
[16:08]I have a contract here, and I hope to be here
[16:11]for a very long time.
[16:12]I will go back to our show, the show
[16:14]that I get to co-anchor with my friend, Jim.
[16:16]Every morning, I'll go back to that at the end of May,
[16:18]maybe June 1st, maybe I'll try to sneak in a week off
[16:21]after finals at night.
[16:23]And I'd love to keep doing stuff with CNN
[16:25]lists, whether it's a different iteration of this new show
[16:28]or we continue this new show.
[16:30]I'd love to do that.
[16:31]But I, you know, the reason I'm going to school,
[16:33]it's not a full law degree.
[16:34]It's a master's in law.
[16:35]So it's me and the one else, like me and the 25-year-olds,
[16:38]for all so flipping smart.
[16:41]I'm like, they just blow me away.
[16:43]Did you read one else by Scott Jo?
[16:45]Of course I did.
[16:46]It completely terrified me.
[16:49]What was about Harvard Law School?
[16:51]I know, but still very different.
[16:53]Okay, close it up.
[16:54]Yale Law School will believe it or not.
[16:57]And so, yes, I read that book and it was terrifying,
[17:01]but so well written.
[17:02]I want to find a way to use what I learned this year.
[17:07]Obviously, I will apply it to my job
[17:09]and a big reason I went was to learn more,
[17:11]especially about constitutional law
[17:13]and criminal law, things that we cover so much
[17:15]and civil procedure.
[17:17]But I, beyond just informing me for the interviews we do
[17:21]and giving me a better base knowledge,
[17:22]I hope that it will in some way tie into some other work
[17:28]that I can do to help people.
[17:31]Next semester, I'm hoping I get in.
[17:33]There's a class called Capital Punishment
[17:36]that I really, really, really want to take
[17:38]by Professor Steven Bright, who has,
[17:41]I think argued the most death penalty cases
[17:43]and one, the most death penalty cases
[17:46]before the Supreme Court of anyone in history.
[17:49]And Brian Stevenson of Equal Justice Initiative
[17:52]is a student of his.
[17:55]And I hope I get in, I don't know,
[17:57]I've been for the class, so we'll see if I get in,
[17:59]but I filmed quite a few times in prisons
[18:02]and reported on the criminal justice system.
[18:05]And so I hope that there's something I can take
[18:06]from that course and from my peers in school
[18:09]that can be helpful to society.
[18:11]And I just don't know what that is yet.
[18:14]That's okay.
[18:15]It'll all unfold to organically his.
[18:17]My husband says.
[18:18]Hehehehehe.
[18:19]Get it out. Exactly.
[18:20]Do you have any time to read?
[18:23]Little, which is why your podcast is so great,
[18:26]Mom's gonna come in.
[18:27]Little, but I'm reading, I just read this book
[18:32]that changed me in a great way called The Second Mountain
[18:36]by David Brooks.
[18:37]Okay, I have not read that yet.
[18:39]Really love it.
[18:41]And it's about, I think the subhead is like
[18:45]the quest for a moral life.
[18:48]And even in the first few pages,
[18:49]he talks about like how many of us
[18:52]climb this sort of professional mountain.
[18:55]And then we get to the top and then we're like,
[18:58]oh, like I said it.
[19:00]Mm-hmm.
[19:02]Oh, like there's gotta be more like a meaning of substance
[19:09]and like what I have achieved
[19:10]or what we as a team have achieved.
[19:13]And so it's about that second mountain that we all climb
[19:17]to like to what a moral life is for us.
[19:20]And what a, and you know, there's a lot of spirit,
[19:22]there's a lot of spirituality in the book.
[19:25]And I really, really would recommend that to people
[19:28]because I sort of think I may be at the base
[19:30]of my second mountain in life as a parent,
[19:36]as a wife, as a friend, as a colleague,
[19:39]as a professional.
[19:40]And I have no idea what is gonna be at the top of that mountain.
[19:46]Well, it's exciting, right?
[19:47]Cause any of all that, how did I,
[19:49]I mean, books it on my bedside table
[19:52]like constantly and don't get read, constantly.
[19:55]Yeah, just like I'm like trying to read my law school stuff.
[19:59]Yeah.
[20:00]Well, I don't know how it would be the train.
[20:02]And that's what the train is for.
[20:03]Yeah.
[20:04]Can you do that every day?
[20:06]Are you do it all these a week?
[20:07]Yeah, there was a, oh my gosh.
[20:09]This week I'm not skipping class.
[20:11]Are you going to just stay up there?
[20:13]I could, but I got these two little munchkins, you know.
[20:16]Yeah.
[20:17]Now like to tuck them in at night.
[20:18]Yeah, that's true.
[20:19]I guess I would probably do that too.
[20:21]All right, well, I won't try to change
[20:22]your whole commuting schedule.
[20:24]But that is something that would be the next semester,
[20:26]I think if I get into this class, it's an evening class.
[20:29]So I think I will try to stay one night up there.
[20:31]Yeah.
[20:32]I mean, this is like my, I've been calling my husband
[20:35]lately the miracle man, which of course he loves.
[20:38]But I was just thinking, you know, it was just
[20:43]no, he's got like a super demanding job.
[20:46]And like lots of people that report to him,
[20:48]he works in consulting and arts in young.
[20:51]And so I feel like Sienna was home from school this week
[20:54]because like, and like to a virtual school and they had,
[20:59]he'd like did that with her all day
[21:02]or last week or whatever was, well, he was doing his job
[21:04]because I wasn't doing even, you know.
[21:06]I mean, he just really like, I mean,
[21:08]it's just never been a, he's never questioned
[21:11]or thought that part, any part of parenting
[21:14]was more of my job than his, which is the only way
[21:17]that I could do this.
[21:18]And as a testament to him and his parents
[21:21]who raised him that way, both working as well.
[21:24]So my miracle man, he'll get that title
[21:27]till I get back at it.
[21:28]How did you read him?
[21:29]I met Cinecius, his name.
[21:31]I met him in Minnesota at our favorite restaurant.
[21:35]It's not there anymore called Filios in Kalins Square.
[21:38]In 2005, long time ago, right after college.
[21:43]And we did long distance for five plus years,
[21:48]Minnesota, New York, Minnesota was working in news
[21:50]and he was trying to build his career in Minneapolis.
[21:53]And, you know, we made like no money.
[21:55]That's right.
[21:56]I think I made $28,000 a year as a journalist.
[22:02]I mean, that was an entry level
[22:03]and like saved every penny to go on to buy a flighter,
[22:08]you know, to get home to Minnesota
[22:10]and what was in Northwest Airlines
[22:11]and the same thing, same thing for him.
[22:14]And, you know, it actually is like everyone says,
[22:17]how did you do long distance for so long?
[22:19]It was actually great for us
[22:21]because we really got to know each other slowly
[22:23]and become friends first and then work on our own careers
[22:27]so that when we were in the same city,
[22:28]we had sort of established ourselves more
[22:31]and could build, start building a life together.
[22:33]Aw, that's so nice.
[22:35]I love it.
[22:36]Well, you're lucky to have him.
[22:37]That's awesome.
[22:38]Yeah, I think it was Cheryl Sandberg,
[22:41]a Facebook who wrote in her book,
[22:42]the long time ago, the most important decision
[22:44]you'll ever make in life into your partner is,
[22:48]and her husband Dave passed away
[22:50]so young, you know, I think that's definitely,
[22:53]definitely true because you gotta have someone
[22:55]who's supportive of, you know, many for the aspects
[22:59]of your life if you're gonna try a different crazy things.
[23:02]It's hard to get everything right.
[23:06]By the way, can you say one thing, Zimmy?
[23:09]Yes, of course.
[23:10]I listened to like a bunch of your podcasts
[23:14]and you did one with this book I love Matthew Barnes in.
[23:19]Yeah, yeah.
[23:20]And his book is the power of giving away power.
[23:24]Yeah, and you said something in it.
[23:26]You said at one point that you're not a leader.
[23:29]He was talking about like the presidents and queens
[23:32]and you talked about yourself.
[23:35]And the reason I bring that up is because you are such a leader
[23:38]and I have always said that about myself.
[23:41]And I've always said like I'm in this fellowship group,
[23:45]the Henry Crown Fellowship with all these like amazing
[23:47]business people in CEOs and they're all the boss
[23:50]and they're like way more powerful than me.
[23:52]And I was like, yeah, but you guys are the leaders
[23:54]and I'm like, I'm not a leader.
[23:56]I feel like the whole worker, you know?
[23:58]And then Tim Noonan, who's one of our like teachers
[24:01]in this fellowship said, no, you're a leader.
[24:04]And no one had ever talked to me like that.
[24:07]And so now I try to tell myself I'm a leader.
[24:09]And when I heard you say that,
[24:11]I wanted to tell you that you're a leader
[24:13]for all of us.
[24:15]Parents, not just mothers, parents, entrepreneurs,
[24:20]trying things, missing Dennis appointments,
[24:23]making the messy work.
[24:25]Like, so this is me passing on my Tim Noonan advice
[24:28]to use it beyond your leader.
[24:30]Oh, Poppy.
[24:32]Oh, okay.
[24:33]It's literally like making me cry.
[24:35]That's so nice.
[24:36]Thank you.
[24:37]Thank you for taking the time to listen to my podcast.
[24:39]And for.
[24:40]All right.
[24:41]Oh my gosh, thank you.
[24:42]That really, it means so much to me,
[24:44]especially coming from you, but yeah,
[24:46]it's hard to sort of own up to anything we're doing, right?
[24:50]We're just so busy and trying.
[24:52]And this and that and the other thing.
[24:53]And anyway, thank you.
[24:55]So I mean it.
[24:57]Made my day.
[24:58]Thank you.
[24:59]Awesome.
[25:00]Well, I am so happy that we got a chance to talk,
[25:03]particularly today.
[25:04]And I know this will come out later,
[25:06]but today is the day after your book came out
[25:08]and is the day before Thanksgiving
[25:09]and is already like craziness of kids.
[25:12]So thank you for letting me have this half an hour to be with you.
[25:17]Be inspired by you.
[25:18]Have a great adult conversation.
[25:22]Thank you.
[25:23]And connect.
[25:24]Thank you for a cup of coffee, one of these days
[25:26]when you're both back in New York,
[25:28]not that we have time, but you know.
[25:30]I thought we have time, but I would love it.
[25:31]Yes, that would be really fun.
[25:33]Okay.
[25:34]All right.
[25:35]Thank you.
[25:35]Yeah.
[25:36]Thanks.
[25:37]Bye.
[25:39]Thanks for listening to this episode
[25:41]of Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books.
[25:43]Don't forget to follow me on Instagram,
[25:45]at Zibi Owens and at Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books.
[25:48]Also sign up for my newsletter at Zibi Owens.com
[25:51]and sign up for my virtual book club
[25:52]and meet lots of authors on Zoom every other week.
[25:55]Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan.
[25:56]In fact, texture sound for the sound editing.
[25:59]And thank you to Morning Moon Productions
[26:01]for providing this fantastic intro and out trim music.