Kris Clink, SISSIE KLEIN IS COMPLETELY NORMAL: A Novel
[0:01]Hi, I'm Sivi Owens, and you're listening to the award-winning podcast,
[0:05]Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books.
[0:07]If you like this podcast, you will love my new anthology called Moms Don't Have Time to Have Kids.
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[0:16]Moms Don't Have Time to Do. All the authors have been on this podcast.
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[0:22]My other podcast, Sex Talk with Sivi and Tracy.
[0:25]Check out Moms Don't Have Time to Write on Medium.
[0:28]And of course, my new publishing company called Sivi Books.
[0:32]And now, back to our daily author interview site and a quick hello from some of my kids.
[0:36]Hi, hi, hello.
[0:38]Enjoy the show.
[0:41]If you like this podcast, you will love my new anthology called Moms Don't Have Time to Have Kids.
[0:47]Here's a little snippet by one of the authors from the anthology.
[0:50]My name is Sarah McCall.
[0:52]I am so happy to have contributed to Moms Don't Have Time to Have Kids,
[0:57]which is the funniest title ever.
[0:59]My essay is called The Circular Breast.
[1:02]And what I really don't have time for is finishing Books I Don't Love.
[1:07]I used to feel a sense of duty, but now if I don't love it, I let it go.
[1:12]Chris Clink is the author of Sissy Cline is completely normal.
[1:16]Chris is the author of Goodbye Lark Lovejoy,
[1:20]which received praise from bustle, Midwest Book Review, Kirk's Review,
[1:24]Women.com, Lone Star Literary, Brit and Co. Travel and Leisure Magazine,
[1:28]and Entertainment Weekly, among others for both books.
[1:31]She's a member of the Women Pictures Writers Association and the Author's Guild.
[1:35]Before becoming a novelist, she oversaw business development in medical environments
[1:39]and managed in office of the juvenile diabetes research foundation.
[1:43]Since then, her work has been published in Moms Don't Have Time to Write on Medium.
[1:48]Thank you very much.
[1:49]D-I-Y-M-F-A, Authority Magazine, Thrive Global, Women Writers, Women's Books,
[1:54]and Accent West Magazine.
[1:56]She's the host of Chris Clink's Writing Table, a podcast about books and writing,
[2:00]where she interviews a variety of publishing professionals and authors,
[2:03]from Lemony Snicket, Daniel Handler, to Camille Pagan.
[2:07]And, by the way, also me, if you want to listen to my episode on her amazing podcast.
[2:11]Calling, and again, that was called Chris Clink's Writing Table,
[2:15]if you want to listen to our episode.
[2:17]Calling the Texas Panhandle Home for most of her life, Chris now lives in Kansas.
[2:21]She and her husband have filled their empty nest with two spoiled rotten pups.
[2:25]When not writing, Chris is playing pickleball with friends,
[2:28]or searching for an open karaoke mic and an understanding audience.
[2:31]Everybody is playing pickleball, except for me.
[2:33]I don't know.
[2:34]Anyway, enjoy.
[2:35]Welcome, Chris.
[2:36]Thank you so much for coming on Moms Don't Have Time to Read Bex to discuss.
[2:39]Sissy Cline is completely normal.
[2:41]I mean, isn't anybody completely normal?
[2:43]Come on.
[2:44]Well, exactly.
[2:45]That's kind of the point.
[2:46]It's like, what is normal.
[2:48]But I'm going to jump ahead of you real quick
[2:50]until you can congratulations on your new anthology release.
[2:53]Thank you.
[2:54]Thanks so much.
[2:55]You are a powerhouse.
[2:57]You're doing great stuff for us.
[2:59]Great for writers.
[3:01]Anyway, sorry.
[3:02]Didn't mean to jump in, but tell me.
[3:04]That's really sweet.
[3:05]I really appreciate it.
[3:06]Thank you.
[3:07]I'm excited.
[3:08]Awesome.
[3:09]What is Sissy Cline is completely normal about telesnares.
[3:13]What it's about.
[3:14]And also, what inspired you to write it?
[3:16]It is about a character that was in my first book.
[3:19]It was just a very quiet character showing in two scenes.
[3:22]And she was married to this guy that was obnoxious.
[3:27]And I started to write the second book and went.
[3:31]I was going to write about one of the more obvious characters.
[3:34]And I just kept going back to Sissy and going,
[3:37]what is that guy's wife like?
[3:39]What got her there?
[3:41]You know, how did this theme?
[3:43]You know, her dad is this big attorney in town.
[3:46]Her mom is kind of a little bit of a Pollyanna,
[3:48]but very socially conscious.
[3:51]And dad's golfing at the club and mom's playing tennis.
[3:55]And so how did she land within this space?
[3:58]And so that's kind of how I got there.
[4:01]I just kept hearing this whisper of,
[4:04]wait, what about Sissy?
[4:05]What's her story?
[4:06]And it was that quiet,
[4:08]that quiet story that I really didn't think it would have traction.
[4:11]I really started writing and was like,
[4:13]okay, am I just playing around here?
[4:16]And it ended up really taking off.
[4:19]And I found that, you know,
[4:21]we've all seen those couples where we say,
[4:23]why is she with him or why is he with her?
[4:26]And it's never simple.
[4:28]And so, you know, it's easy to say,
[4:30]oh, he doesn't treat her good.
[4:32]Why doesn't she, you know, leave?
[4:34]And so, you know, there's reasons.
[4:36]I mean, it's called relationships are so complicated.
[4:39]And so digging into that,
[4:41]kind of doing this character dissection really showed me
[4:44]that everybody has a story.
[4:47]And whether they're big or small,
[4:49]and it's kind of like your anthologies.
[4:51]I mean, there are these little snippets into people's lives,
[4:54]but I think it's so important that we tell those stories
[4:57]because readers will see a little thread of themselves.
[5:00]And maybe set thread that made them feel ashamed.
[5:03]And they see somebody else doing something else with it.
[5:06]And it could be, you know, the door that opens right there
[5:09]to motivate them and know that they're not alone.
[5:12]And so, I started writing this about Sissy,
[5:14]kind of like this in the first big,
[5:17]large things that she might have been abused.
[5:19]There might be some domestic abuse.
[5:21]And so that's kind of where I was going,
[5:23]but it was so much more complicated than that.
[5:25]And it really went back to, you know,
[5:27]when you're 16 years old,
[5:29]you're kind of living life day by day
[5:32]and you think you're bulletproof.
[5:34]And you're not really thinking,
[5:36]most of us aren't thinking ahead of what's going to happen.
[5:39]And, you know, what could happen?
[5:41]What are the effects of these little decisions I make?
[5:44]You know, one night going to play with my friends.
[5:46]You know, what is that going to do?
[5:48]And so that one night changed Sissy's life.
[5:52]And so that's where we start with Sissy.
[5:55]Wow.
[5:56]And I love that you start the book by talking about people
[5:59]who grow at different heights.
[6:01]There's like, yeah, they become like,
[6:03]what are you saying peanut butter and jelly or something like that?
[6:05]Like, because I felt like when I was going up,
[6:07]that was something that kept having to me
[6:09]because I just, like, I never got tall.
[6:12]I was like, so I had friends who got just super deep redoed.
[6:16]Anyway, I related to that.
[6:17]But anyway, well, in Sissy's case, getting tall,
[6:20]it was kind of an irony because she's tall
[6:23]and the guy she marries doesn't want her to be tall.
[6:26]So she has to wear flax throughout her marriage.
[6:29]And it kind of goes back to, you know,
[6:31]she's being formed basically by everybody else
[6:35]until this tragedy happens.
[6:37]And that's when she gets to bust out and be, you know,
[6:40]her authentic self that she's been kind of growing this whole time.
[6:43]Oh my gosh.
[6:44]So where did, so when you started the beginning of this series
[6:48]and that was goodbye, like, love, love.
[6:51]What, like, where did that come from in your life
[6:54]and your professional life?
[6:55]Like, how did you get started?
[6:57]Like, tell me the whole story.
[6:58]Well, I just, I had a friend, I lost a friend to ALS.
[7:01]And she was young.
[7:03]And I, you know, I had her, yeah, those things,
[7:06]when they happen when you're young,
[7:08]that's not supposed to happen when another mom, you know,
[7:10]another mom with kids your age, that happens.
[7:12]So ALS was kind of at the core of that.
[7:15]I knew I wanted that to be part of the book.
[7:17]And I'd gone down to South Texas to,
[7:19]we weren't in San Antonio and we went to the green dance hall,
[7:23]which is one of the oldest dance halls in the country.
[7:25]And it was a dance hall that, you know,
[7:27]we walked in and like two in the afternoon,
[7:29]because one of our older children was like,
[7:31]you have to go in there yet to see this.
[7:32]And when I walked in, the floor board's bent under my feet
[7:35]and I told my husband, I don't know what the book is going to be
[7:38]about, but when I ride it,
[7:39]some of it's going to happen here
[7:41]because you just kind of felt like this,
[7:43]the low hum of people that had been there before.
[7:46]And I mean, it goes back, you know, 100 years.
[7:48]And so it was just, that's kind of where it started,
[7:51]that that community, that small community,
[7:54]with that has a little bit of a big spotlight on it,
[7:58]because of all the people that come through there.
[8:00]And so it was really, it started there.
[8:03]And then, you know, I went through Lark's life
[8:07]and basically Lark was coming back to her hometown
[8:10]after she's lost her husband to ALS.
[8:12]And she's not the little Miss Sunshine life on a cracker
[8:16]that she was when she left.
[8:18]And so that's kind of where Lark takes off.
[8:21]And when she meets Sissy's husband,
[8:24]Sissy's husband, they're separated.
[8:26]Sissy's inner husband are separated.
[8:28]And he has a crush, he has an unrequited crush from high school.
[8:32]And he thinks this is great.
[8:34]We're going to get back together.
[8:35]And of course Lark doesn't want anything to do with them.
[8:37]And she really, she had worked as a pro bono attorney
[8:40]and domestic violence shelter in Houston before she moved back.
[8:43]And she recognized something in Sissy that wasn't right.
[8:46]It was just something that she was beaten down.
[8:50]and I think we find out it's more emotionally.
[8:52]But, you know, emotional abuse is abuse, no matter what.
[8:55]So anyway, that's kind of where it came from.
[8:58]And what about the writing?
[9:00]Did you start writing when you were a kid?
[9:02]Like when did you know you wanted to write?
[9:04]I knew I wanted to write when I was really young.
[9:07]I mean, I was funny because I bought this book, a used book
[9:11]that people ask me, but what is the book that inspired you?
[9:14]And I remember getting this book
[9:16]and it was around Halloween.
[9:17]It was a little yellow book in my little school library that was
[9:21]that they little lost witch.
[9:24]I think it's what it is.
[9:25]And I loved that book.
[9:27]And even after Halloween, I would check that out and check it out.
[9:29]And I remember thinking, gosh, do this?
[9:31]And I think it's some incredible teachers that gave me the confidence
[9:34]that I really didn't get a lot of that home.
[9:36]I had great teachers who showed me that no matter who you are,
[9:40]you can do this.
[9:42]And so my whole life, I knew I was going to do it.
[9:44]And I worked for non-profits and did medical development stuff.
[9:48]And so I was writing that my name was never on it.
[9:51]It was stuff that was for an organization.
[9:54]But I always knew I was going to do it.
[9:56]When I was 46, my husband said, hey, Chris,
[9:58]when are you going to write that book?
[10:00]And I quit my job in a month later.
[10:03]I was writing, Mark left, Joy.
[10:06]Oh my gosh.
[10:07]You do not like that old.
[10:09]No, seriously.
[10:11]I guess I'm 45, so I guess you would just be my age.
[10:13]But 46, I don't know.
[10:15]I'm like, you look like you're 36, but anyway.
[10:17]No, I'm 51.
[10:18]Oh my gosh.
[10:19]Wow.
[10:20]It's like a while to get that thing to work through,
[10:23]you know, learning your craft and writing is,
[10:26]technical writing is different than fiction writing.
[10:29]Oh, I didn't know if you meant like the anti-aging or the writing.
[10:32]No, no, no, I'm just talking about, you know,
[10:34]it took a lot of years between 46 and now.
[10:37]So yeah, but still.
[10:38]But then also these books came out so close together, right?
[10:41]I mean, I had already done the second one
[10:45]and the publisher thought since they were going to be part of a series
[10:47]that that would be a good thing to give people, you know,
[10:50]the second one pretty quickly.
[10:52]And I've had people message me and email me and say,
[10:56]when is, when is the next one coming out?
[10:58]I'm like, okay, you know, it's coming out in November.
[11:01]So that was really exciting to have people buy in so quickly.
[11:04]And are there, is there another one coming after this?
[11:06]Yes, I just finished writing a book that is not in the series.
[11:11]And I've parked that I kind of do this.
[11:13]I park the draft and let it air out a little bit or kind of another project
[11:17]come back and do the edits so that, you know, you come back
[11:19]and you can see it a little differently.
[11:21]And so yes, there is that the next one is about a winemaker
[11:25]who's probably in her early, like 50s, early 60s.
[11:29]It actually inspired Lark to become a winemaker in the first book.
[11:32]And it had a handsome Irishman and it also has her daughter.
[11:37]She's, she had a terrible divorce and kind of lost her,
[11:41]just lost her, you know what, over it.
[11:43]And that therapy didn't really help.
[11:46]And that's how she ended up in winemaking.
[11:48]And so she thinks she's going to read out with her daughter
[11:50]when her daughter's going to come back and stay with her at the winery.
[11:53]And she doesn't know that the daughter is bringing her father
[11:56]with her, who is recuperating after an accident.
[12:00]And so that's going to really give Natasha a chance to rehash the things
[12:05]that happened after her divorce.
[12:08]And so I'm, wow, that sounds great.
[12:11]I can wait to tell you more about your friend with ALS.
[12:15]He was an incredible, her name is Lee.
[12:18]She was an incredible mom.
[12:20]She was smart and funny.
[12:24]And she was a volunteer and she did fabulous things for the junior leg.
[12:27]She, she painted a mural at her children's school.
[12:32]And it wasn't finished when she was, when she got, my thing got sick,
[12:35]when her, her right side and I went her right arm paralyzed.
[12:40]And she continued to paint it with her left.
[12:44]That's, that's how inspiring she is.
[12:47]I mean, she's just, I think about her all the time.
[12:49]And, and so it was in the first, like also we have a lot about,
[12:53]about our veterans too.
[12:54]And it's about PTSD.
[12:56]And, but really, Lark has PTSD from losing her husband.
[13:01]And her, the male counterpart does from Afghanistan from an IED event.
[13:07]So, yeah.
[13:10]Did you do this to, did you time it to Veterans Day at all?
[13:14]I know that when came out in April and it was just, it came out
[13:18]out when the publisher wanted it to come out.
[13:19]And so that's, yeah.
[13:21]Okay.
[13:22]I thought you were saying in November.
[13:23]But no, this one comes out in November.
[13:25]Yeah.
[13:25]Right.
[13:25]Yeah.
[13:26]That's all right.
[13:26]Yes.
[13:27]I'm getting confused.
[13:27]I'm right.
[13:28]Don't worry.
[13:29]Of course.
[13:30]Wow.
[13:31]Well, I'm really sorry about your friend.
[13:32]I have a friend with ALS as well.
[13:34]And I know how that goes.
[13:35]But it's been quite a while.
[13:38]You know.
[13:39]Yeah.
[13:39]But I just think all of this, when you witness things that happen,
[13:43]I mean, it sounds so obvious.
[13:44]But it's like every day, it's like, well,
[13:47]I, you know, I have this day here, you know,
[13:49]I'm able body today and I can get out and I can work and I can
[13:52]walk and I can do whatever.
[13:53]And so I have to go do this now.
[13:55]Right.
[13:55]Cause not everybody gets to do this today.
[13:57]So I don't know.
[13:58]This morning I woke up and it was before, I knew my alarm clock was
[14:02]going to go out or my alarm on my phone was going to go off in
[14:04]like five minutes.
[14:05]And I laid there and I was thinking about all these things I need
[14:08]to do that don't have anything to do with writing plus this.
[14:11]And I, I thought about what you said when I interviewed you
[14:15]about when I said, how do you do it?
[14:17]And she said, because you said, because I don't have time.
[14:22]We don't have time.
[14:23]And, and I think that is you don't have time to waste.
[14:27]So get busy.
[14:28]And so this morning, I just want you to know, that's what's
[14:30]on me on a bed this morning.
[14:31]Oh, my God.
[14:31]And it's before my alarm because I thought, you know what,
[14:34]what are you doing here?
[14:35]You don't have time to go.
[14:37]So it is, it's, you know, every, every minute is precious
[14:41]and we need to use it.
[14:42]Oh, well, wow.
[14:44]Thank you.
[14:45]I love hearing these things.
[14:46]I don't have any memory at all of anything I say.
[14:48]So this is, it's always like, you feel like, Oh,
[14:50]remember when you told me this that like, I was like, no, I don't,
[14:53]but I'm delighted that that happened.
[14:55]I'll see your inspiring people and you don't even know it.
[14:58]And you are inspiring people every day, the things, but, you know,
[15:01]I take little leggots out of every one of your shows.
[15:05]You know, it's a writer.
[15:06]You get, you get writing nuggets.
[15:08]But then you also get, oh, I did you interview that wrote ghost.
[15:13]I listened to her this morning.
[15:14]You guys, there's a talk about our nickers.
[15:16]She kept saying the shoes.
[15:17]I walked away.
[15:18]Oh, my God.
[15:18]I'm never going to see underwear the same way again.
[15:20]They're nickers.
[15:23]A lot of fun.
[15:24]What you do, you know, you, you give people that venue to tell
[15:28]their stories.
[15:28]And that's what I was saying about Sissy.
[15:30]It's like her story is a, there's a quiet story.
[15:32]And, you know, she says.
[15:34]Or at the end, she said something about, you know, I didn't,
[15:37]I didn't find my purpose in a college brochure or in my job.
[15:41]I found it in tons of little moments and a few big ones.
[15:45]And, and that's life.
[15:47]That's what we are.
[15:47]And your show does that.
[15:49]You, you give us a glimpse into people's lives.
[15:52]And I just think that's lovely.
[15:54]What you do.
[15:55]Thank you.
[15:56]That's so nice.
[15:57]Does the best podcast ever?
[16:00]Well, I, it's authentic.
[16:02]Wait.
[16:03]So, so what made you want to start interviewing people and wake
[16:06]when did that start?
[16:08]You know, I got a background in communications.
[16:10]And I've done all kinds of things.
[16:12]I mean, I've worked for hospice for two years with it.
[16:16]I mean, that's the whole other.
[16:17]I need to blog about that one these days.
[16:19]But I was, we were on COVID and I was preparing for that first
[16:23]book to come out in April of this last year.
[16:26]And they can't.
[16:27]My publicist was asked, you know, they were pushing me to blog.
[16:30]And I was like, what are you going to blog about?
[16:32]My kids aren't here.
[16:33]My husband and I are here on lockdown.
[16:36]I've got this.
[16:37]It's most of the time it was, it was my great day in Sophie and I.
[16:40]So like, what do I say?
[16:41]I took Sophie out.
[16:42]I couldn't do it today.
[16:44]That's what I thought.
[16:45]That didn't give me the blog about.
[16:47]And so I kept saying I was going to do a podcast.
[16:50]Kristin, he gets it.
[16:51]It's a lot of work.
[16:52]Oh, I thought, I'll interview him.
[16:54]People I can do that.
[16:55]It is a lot of work.
[16:56]You know that.
[16:58]But it has been so fun.
[16:59]And I wish I would have done it sooner because when I was on lockdown,
[17:02]you know, I wasn't talking to anybody.
[17:03]And this was so, it's so fun.
[17:05]It's so fun asking, asking the authors that you admire so much.
[17:08]The questions that you want to know.
[17:10]And it's just fun.
[17:13]I could not agree more.
[17:15]I don't actually believe you do it every day.
[17:18]I don't know how you do it every day.
[17:19]I don't know.
[17:20]Somebody don't do very well.
[17:21]Perhaps this one.
[17:23]Great.
[17:24]So who are some other authors either coming up or who you've had or who are you excited about?
[17:29]I am interviewing Laura Littman in a couple of weeks.
[17:33]And I think I'll see.
[17:35]You know, I'm kind of starstruck right now.
[17:37]I'm kind of kind of remember who all I just interviewed.
[17:40]My friend Kristin Higgins actually inspired me to do the podcast because when I was,
[17:44]when I knew I was kind of I was going to do something right early.
[17:48]And she had always reminded us when we got a conferences and stuff.
[17:51]And I say us because she'd always have like a little kebby of decklings following
[17:54]her around because she was such great men's work.
[17:57]And she still is, but she would say there's plenty of room at the table.
[18:00]We're not in competition.
[18:02]There's plenty of room.
[18:03]People aren't going to read one book.
[18:05]They're going to read dozens of books, hundreds of books, hopefully.
[18:08]And so, you know, she besides her writing, I love her writing.
[18:12]I love what Bethany Crandall is doing.
[18:15]You know, she's pretty new.
[18:16]And she's just so fresh and funny.
[18:18]She's so funny.
[18:19]She is a whole, and she has become, I would say she's become a dear friend of mine.
[18:23]I've, she and I text almost every day.
[18:25]She's, we'll send each other videos.
[18:27]She's so funny.
[18:28]Trish Dollar, who wrote float plan.
[18:30]I think float plan.
[18:31]I interviewed her.
[18:32]I had not read float plan yet.
[18:34]And then that's the one, the one interview that all the audio went wrong on.
[18:39]And I could not salvage it.
[18:40]I had to do it again.
[18:41]But I did it after I read it.
[18:43]And it was so fun.
[18:44]And I'm actually meeting her next week and two other writers for just a little
[18:48]writing retreat in Florida.
[18:50]For just a lot of days.
[18:52]So, you know, these, it's been really fun.
[18:55]It's been really fun.
[18:55]But let's see.
[18:56]You asked me about authors.
[18:57]Oh my gosh.
[18:58]Bethany Crandled, by the way.
[18:59]Bethany Crandled.
[19:01]I wrote her yesterday.
[19:02]And I was like on Instagram.
[19:04]And I was like, you have the best Instagram comments.
[19:07]Like she makes the best comments.
[19:09]I was like, you win.
[19:10]Like does it be a word for the best Instagram comments?
[19:13]I have to be a new category next year.
[19:15]Yeah.
[19:15]So that's what I said, new category.
[19:16]That's it.
[19:18]You know, and she has so much on her play.
[19:20]And people don't realize like how much she, she does.
[19:23]She works.
[19:24]She has, she has a daughter with special needs.
[19:27]She has another daughter.
[19:27]You know, she's got a life and two dogs.
[19:29]And I mean, she just, you just, you never know.
[19:33]Kind of goes back to the Sissy thing.
[19:34]You never know what people's stories are.
[19:37]What their real stories are.
[19:38]And that's what podcasts are fun.
[19:40]Because you find out what, you know,
[19:42]people think that writers look like Diane Keaton, you know,
[19:46]at the Hamptons in her big white bedroom office.
[19:50]And we just sit there and write and drink champagne
[19:52]and wait for the text to come in.
[19:54]And that's, oh, not anything like that.
[19:58]But we have to.
[19:59]It's in our
[20:00]DNA we have to and so it's it's really great to get to talk to those authors that you love and find out what their story is and and you know what they're as Kristin Higgins taught me when I started writing is I don't what their wind is and you will you'll have so much such an easier time writing the book when you know what that characters wind is because our wounds affect the way we see everything.
[20:23]And so you know I think about like these when I was in grad school to gender calm and one of my professors was talking about something I'm going to probably butcher this but something about standpoint theory where the way you see the world is everything you know where your feet are right now it's everything that came before that.
[20:42]But when I see you in this beautiful you know I see your beautiful office with all the color colorful books and everything I could assume that all kinds of things about you.
[20:53]But knowing your story tells me you know it gives me inside into your heart and and your social consciousness and why you do what you do and so I just think it's interest I love getting to know people and I love taking those those you know how authors can take those little stories and just break them apart and and show us that we're not alone you know our readers are not alone in the world they they have some.
[21:20]Some similarity that relates back to you know hopefully it's a character that broke out and is a hero in some way so anyone I love that I didn't answer your questions are it doesn't matter I loved it I love what we're talking about because I could not agree more I mean.
[21:34]I never get tired of hearing people stories ever like if I ever say to something like what's your story like how did you start writing like what what is your story it's endlessly fascinating to me to figure out.
[21:46]That's the fact story of everybody because you're right people you know you present as one thing and nobody knows.
[21:52]Now you know it's funny because I have a one of the one of the things that I I don't know if I should even bring this up one of the things that I that inspired me about the sissy book is that I have my one my very very very best friend from time we were nine.
[22:07]I've got a strange little bit high school and she was part of a fundamentalist religion and she got married and pregnant and young age I think she had her son at 18.
[22:20]I don't get that you are so smart you have all this potential what he and I was and it was so judgey about it in the book.
[22:28]Sissy's best friend, Dela is judgey I was never I was never as bitchy as Stella I got I hope not.
[22:36]But I didn't understand in the marriage did not last long and it was it was kind of a it was a traumatic thing for her and her son.
[22:46]But her son was grown and just such a fine man now and she's remarried and so happy and and in a way I told her when I wrote this and I gave her one of the arcs I said you know this is kind of my.
[22:58]My homage to you and a love story to you because it is not her story is nothing like her story but except that she got married and pregnant young.
[23:07]That you know we judge and it's easy to judge from the outside and so you know when you really dissect that you find out that there were there were plenty of reasons good reasons why she did what she did at the time and that's you know that's all we can do is make our best decisions at the time that they're we're facing them so so true I really you know Marissa if you're there that's to you.
[23:33]She was in the debt she's been in bulk dedication so.
[23:40]I was up for a city award and of course knows all my secrets and loves me.
[23:47]I love that I totally love that.
[23:50]Yeah, not this one.
[23:53]I do have your other book too.
[23:55]Well, anyway, as I flipped to this education.
[23:58]Advice for aspiring authors know I would say understand that you are writing fiction.
[24:04]If you're writing fiction you're writing fiction and you think and I went into thinking I was writing about other people and I didn't really want to be a part I didn't want to expose my life.
[24:15]And in time first on your craft, but also know have that have that sense in the back of your mind that you are going to unveil some of yourself, because otherwise the work isn't going to come across as an authentic.
[24:31]It comes from you it comes you know you're you're not telling your story but you're telling a story through your filter and so it's a real I don't know that I'm doing it just as it's hard to explain.
[24:44]You know I think I like I didn't want to blog about myself and I've done a couple essays on medium for mom's don't have time to write and it's made me open up and think about how I want to you know things that stories that I should be sharing.
[25:02]I write fiction but there are stories through meaningful that that could be shared just like the essays and so I think that's one thing writers need to realize is that if you're writing fiction.
[25:11]Go ahead and write stories don't show them to anybody if you don't want to but write stories about yourself right stories about the traumatic horrible things, because in those things you're going to find threads that you can put in your fiction that are going to mean be very meaningful to other people to readers.
[25:28]That's great love it.
[25:30]Thank you so much.
[25:31]Thank you for your time.
[25:32]Thanks for coming out and all the compliments.
[25:34]Thanks for sharing sissy with us and you're great writing and all the rest and so thank you and the interviewing and you know are shared love of authors.
[25:46]Well, thank you. I want to at some point I want to you need to this out. I want to have you back on to talk about like you know as I was talking about new writers should be doing more essays and stuff.
[25:56]I'd like to talk about like not the essays for your books but the essays for like medium and things to try to encourage writers to.
[26:04]Yes, they should do that as a as a vehicle to kind of get started and you know they're not all going to get published but you know maybe maybe you never know.
[26:14]There you go.
[26:15]That's a great idea. Thank you for that.
[26:17]Sure. Sorry.
[26:18]When things slow down.
[26:19]Okay.
[26:20]All right.
[26:21]When that happens.
[26:22]I tell you the day after your book comes out.
[26:25]Sorry if I'm a little scattered today.
[26:28]No, no, you are you are so on the ball. I don't know how, like I said, I don't know. I don't know what drug you take to stay so focused with all you have.
[26:38]You want to take any. I don't take a focus drug.
[26:41]I know.
[26:42]I should.
[26:44]I have friendly kids.
[26:46]Study you and make that for the rest of us.
[26:51]Oh, man.
[26:52]Well, I hope you get a vacation soon.
[26:54]I hope you get a great.
[26:55]No, I don't need to. I'm good. I'm good. I'm all good.
[26:58]This is also exciting that it just keeps prevailing me forward. So I'm good.
[27:02]You are a lovely, lovely human and what you do for for authors is just amazing.
[27:08]So thank you for champion our stories.
[27:11]Yeah. And sissy clients while we're at it.
[27:14]Okay.
[27:15]All right.
[27:16]Thank you.
[27:17]Thanks for listening to this episode of moms don't have time to read books.
[27:22]Don't forget to follow me on Instagram at zebi Owens and at moms don't have time to read books.
[27:27]Also sign up for my newsletter at zebiowens.com and sign up for my virtual book club and meet lots of authors on zoom every other week.
[27:34]Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan at Textures Sound for the Sound Editing.
[27:38]And thank you to Morning Moon Productions for providing this fantastic intro and outro music.