Kate MacDougall, LONDON'S NUMBER ONE DOG-WALKING AGENCY: A Memoir
[0:01]Hi, I'm Sivi Owens, and you're listening to the award-winning podcast,
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[0:41]If you like this podcast, you will love my new anthology called Moms Don't Have Time to Have Kids.
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[0:50]My name is Jean McCulloch, and I'm thrilled and honored to have contributed to Moms Don't Have Time to Have Kids.
[0:58]My essay is called Snow in the Night Sky.
[1:02]And what I really don't have time for these days is to visit all my friends and relatives dotted throughout the country
[1:10]who I haven't seen since the lockdown.
[1:13]So, there's a goal for the coming year.
[1:16]Kate McZugel is the author of London's number one, Dog Walking Agency.
[1:21]A memoir.
[1:22]Kate is a writer and journalist who now lives in rural Oxfordshire with her family.
[1:26]She writes features from publications including Country Life, The Telegraph, Horse and Hound, Homes and Antiques, while also wrangling three small children, and two disobedient dogs.
[1:35]Welcome, Kate.
[1:36]Thank you so much for coming on Moms Don't Have Time to read books to discuss London's number one, Dog Walking Agency.
[1:43]A memoir.
[1:44]Oh, thanks for having me, Zibi.
[1:45]Hi.
[1:46]Can you please tell everybody what this book is about?
[1:50]How this really happened?
[1:52]All of this amazing stuff that you talk about in the book.
[1:55]But give us an answers to start.
[1:57]Yeah, of course.
[1:58]So, it's a memoir.
[2:00]It's the story of the years that I ran a dog walking company in London, which was an unplanned career move.
[2:08]I was working at Sotheby's in the furniture department selling antiques.
[2:12]Also, not really knowing what I was doing there.
[2:15]I was very clumsy and I kept dropping things and I decided that actually I probably needed a change.
[2:21]And around the same time I happened to meet somebody in the park in Hyde Park, which is one of London's biggest parks.
[2:27]And they were walking a dog.
[2:28]And they said, Oh, this is my job.
[2:30]This is what I'm doing.
[2:31]And it wasn't really a thing in London then at all.
[2:33]People didn't do that as a job.
[2:35]I know it's been around in New York in America for a lot longer.
[2:39]But we were a bit the British were a bit funny about having other people walk dogs for a long time.
[2:44]So I thought, well, I can do that.
[2:46]I had dogs growing up.
[2:48]And so I set up a website and before I knew I had my first client and I thought, Oh, my God, I've got to do this now for real.
[2:56]So I left my office job.
[2:58]And yeah, I started out walking dogs, not having a clue what I was doing.
[3:02]So the book kind of charts that is that journey from starting out to in the end when I hand over the business and leave London.
[3:09]And during that time there's marriage and kids.
[3:12]And so yeah, it's a real journey.
[3:14]It was so funny at the start when you were telling everybody that you were leaving work.
[3:18]It was like, dogs.
[3:20]Why are you going to work with dogs?
[3:22]I mean, it's just so funny when people leave their traditional.
[3:25]Yeah, no, absolutely, particularly my mother was horrified by the whole thing because working for some of these sounds all, you know, exciting.
[3:34]And it was a great place to work.
[3:36]It was fascinating, but it just wasn't for me.
[3:38]And yeah, when I told everybody I'd be walking dogs for a job, they just thought I was completely insane.
[3:43]And actually they were probably right because I really didn't know what I was doing.
[3:47]And yeah, as the book details, it's a lot more to do with the owners than it is with the dogs really because they're the tricky ones.
[3:54]That's very true.
[3:55]And of course it also, you know, talks that you mentioned about your own relationships and even, you know, what it was like sort of getting by in from your boyfriend at the time about doing this job and dragging a hungover guy on the train to, you know,
[4:09]having to deal with a hyperactive dog in the fire.
[4:12]Oh my gosh, I can't imagine this whole thing.
[4:16]He's such a hero.
[4:18]My husband, he's upstairs bathing our children.
[4:22]Yeah, he really didn't like dogs to start with the tool, which I think he thought was okay.
[4:27]He thought, well, you know, it's not really going to affect me what she's doing for a job.
[4:31]And then before he knew it, he was actually involved with walking some of the dogs himself if I got stuck and they didn't have anybody to walk a dog.
[4:38]He would go in his suit in his lunch break to pick up dogs all across London, which he really did not sign up for.
[4:45]And then we got our own dog, which I talk a lot about in the book.
[4:50]And yeah, she's called Maple and she's still alive.
[4:53]She's 13 now.
[4:54]And yeah, he completely fell in love with her.
[4:57]And from that, you know, he's a big dog fan, luckily, and we have two dogs now.
[5:01]So yeah, I think I can.
[5:03]I also had a dog named Mabel by the way, a long time ago.
[5:07]Oh, no way. Oh, it's happening.
[5:09]She was a bulldog.
[5:10]Oh, he's an amazing husband.
[5:16]He does have lots of prizes.
[5:18]Well, it's such a great story.
[5:20]And it's just so heartfelt.
[5:22]And you know, such a sense of humor, the way you talk about everything.
[5:25]Oh, it's just, it's like such a pleasure to read it and experience lives through your eyes and how it was at the time.
[5:32]And anyway, it was just really sort of heartwarming.
[5:36]Oh, thank you.
[5:37]Thank you.
[5:38]So what was it like this experience for you writing the book?
[5:41]Did you know you wanted to, I mean, was this like in the back of your head the whole time?
[5:45]Yeah, I really think it was.
[5:46]I think from pretty much the first dog.
[5:49]Yeah, when you sort of walk into these people's houses and you get this little glimpse into all these other people's lives, which was such a privilege.
[5:56]And also just so fascinating.
[5:58]And I think human beings, we end up kind of comparing ourselves with other people all the time.
[6:03]And yeah, there was just so many stories and so many characters that would have just been criminal not to write it down.
[6:09]And I've always written when I was younger and just just loved it.
[6:14]And what I worked on it on and off for a number of years.
[6:17]It wasn't something I just sat down and wrote.
[6:19]It, you know, it was, it was bits and bobs here and there, along with having children and doing other things.
[6:25]And I think then I got to the point where I was just annoyed with myself and not having finished it.
[6:30]And that was kind of really the drive that they got me to do the final draft.
[6:34]So is it the kind of thing did you end up liking it?
[6:37]I like, what did you say bibs and bobs.
[6:39]It's such a funny way.
[6:40]Bob.
[6:41]I love that.
[6:42]No, it's so cute.
[6:43]I love that.
[6:44]That sounds like a little sharp or something.
[6:47]Bob, yeah, I'm sure there is one so cool.
[6:49]That's a moment.
[6:50]And yes, no, I did at the end.
[6:53]I think you get to the point where you think this, this sounds like me and this sounds like my voice.
[6:59]And this sounds true to the experience.
[7:02]And it's got the right feel to it.
[7:04]And I wanted it to be sort of heartwarming and funny and just full of amusing stories and characters.
[7:11]And I think hopefully that, that came across.
[7:14]Absolutely.
[7:15]Again, though, do you have another book?
[7:17]Like, is this the kind of thing where you're like, okay, I got through it.
[7:20]And, you know, here it is.
[7:23]And it must be feel so rewarding or how does it feel now that it's out and would you want to do it again?
[7:27]Oh, it's amazing to have it out.
[7:29]It was a very strange experience because the book was bought by UK publisher and the US publisher in very quick succession,
[7:35]but all during the first lockdown here.
[7:37]And I was trying to homeschool my children.
[7:39]And it was this really surreal experience.
[7:41]I didn't actually meet anybody for months and months and months.
[7:44]And then only got to meet my editor really briefly once in person.
[7:48]Because it was, we just weren't allowed to and restrictions.
[7:51]And I think, I mean, that was my only experience of having a book published.
[7:54]So it was fine for me.
[7:55]But I think, you know, everyone was saying, well, this is really unusual because it doesn't really happen like this.
[8:00]And usually we'd get to meet you more.
[8:02]And actually it was, it was a really lovely distraction from, from what was going on in the world.
[8:06]Yeah, I'm actually writing a novel at the minute, which I'm really, really enjoying.
[8:10]But I think because the first book took me a long time over a number of years.
[8:15]And I've got a year to write this sort.
[8:17]And actually you realize it's such a lot of work.
[8:20]And having it condensed in a short space of time has definitely got its advantages.
[8:24]But also it's disadvantages because you really I feel up against my deadline quite a lot.
[8:29]And what is, what's your next step?
[8:32]What's your novel about it's very British it sets in the countryside near here.
[8:37]I live it's about two sisters and they're slightly eccentric relatives.
[8:41]But yeah, I'm, I'm absolutely loving doing it.
[8:43]It's just such a joy.
[8:45]I never thought I'd write a novel.
[8:46]So when they bought the first book, the publisher's Bonnier in the UK said, would you like to write a fiction one too?
[8:52]And I just jumped at the chance and it's just such, such an honor and a privilege.
[8:56]And yeah, I'm absolutely loving it doing it.
[8:58]That's amazing.
[8:59]So has it, what, what are some for people who have not read the book?
[9:03]What are some things you've learned about dog owners relative to their dogs that maybe you didn't know before you wrote, you know, experience this yourself?
[9:12]Well, I'd say if I was being kind and generous, I'd say most dog owners are normal and lovely and very sane.
[9:20]I think it's the small minority that possibly slightly more eccentric, very devoted.
[9:27]And sometimes that behavior can, that sort of intense love for their dogs can sort of come out in some unusual ways sometimes.
[9:34]So very strange requests with diet, very strange requests with how to put their dogs to bed.
[9:41]So bedtime stories and tucking, tucking them into the bed and all sorts of requests for different types of massage and dogs that can already walk on one side of the road.
[9:52]And I think this is probably quite niche behavior, but it's, it's those clients that you remember obviously and those are the ones people want to read about.
[9:59]But I think we.
[10:00]You all know how much dogs mean to us
[10:02]and what a big part of the family they are.
[10:05]So I think we can forgive some of the behaviors.
[10:08]Yeah, it was such massive dog lovers, oh my,
[10:10]I mean, they are absolutely everything to us.
[10:12]And particularly in the last year,
[10:13]I think they've become even more key members of our family.
[10:17]I can't go anywhere without my dog.
[10:19]She's like my, you know,
[10:20]I touch my purse and she like jumps up.
[10:22]Yeah, it was so sweet.
[10:25]I know, it's terrible.
[10:26]I don't know if you can even see her.
[10:27]She's in the couch over there.
[10:29]She's a black man.
[10:30]Yeah, she was a daughter, I guess.
[10:32]But she's like always nearby.
[10:33]I can't like go anywhere without her.
[10:35]But I think it's also funny with your,
[10:37]then boyfriend now has been too.
[10:39]Yeah, that sometimes you aren't a dog lover
[10:41]until you fall in love with your dog.
[10:42]Similar to people who aren't like kid people
[10:45]or they don't love babies or whatever
[10:46]and then they have a child and then all of a sudden
[10:48]that's all they're talking about.
[10:49]And they're like, oh, now we get it.
[10:51]So it's that, it's that falling in love feeling
[10:54]of something before you can extrapolate it a little bit more.
[10:58]Yeah, and he really resisted.
[10:59]I mean, he was really like, this is your dog.
[11:02]I'm not having anything to do with it.
[11:05]And yeah, he could see him kind of softening.
[11:08]You could see the way she was like melting his heart very slowly.
[11:13]Yeah, and it was just really, really lovely to see.
[11:16]And yeah, we've got two now and he's still jokes every now
[11:19]and then they're like, oh, they're your dogs.
[11:20]But actually he just, he's completely spent
[11:23]with both of them and yeah, bless him.
[11:25]What a transformation.
[11:27]So you're a mom of three and have two dogs.
[11:30]And now you're writing a novel
[11:31]and promoting the memoir and all this stuff.
[11:34]So do you find time to read?
[11:35]And if so, what do you like to read?
[11:37]Yeah, reading is a really, really key part of my writing.
[11:40]I think if ever I'm lost with the writing,
[11:43]I always go back to pick up a favorite book or a new book.
[11:47]And it immediately sort of sparks that creativity again for me.
[11:51]I always have about three or four books on the go,
[11:53]which is probably a bit crazy.
[11:55]And also listen to audiobooks as well a lot.
[11:57]I find audiobooks can be brilliant
[12:00]just kind of fill in gaps if you're out walking the dogs
[12:03]or doing the washing up or, you know,
[12:05]doing something with it folding laundry,
[12:07]just to fill those gaps.
[12:08]I like to have it kind of coming at me all the time.
[12:11]I'm quite a diverse reader, although I do fall back
[12:14]into my favorite writers a lot.
[12:17]Quite a few American writers actually,
[12:19]and Anne Patcher, David Todaris,
[12:21]Nora Ephron, all really, really big, big fans of those.
[12:25]And British writers as well,
[12:28]there's a lovely comic British writer called Nina Stibby
[12:30]who I absolutely love her books.
[12:32]Julie Cooper, who's one of my all-time literary heroes,
[12:36]who's very British English.
[12:38]She wrote things like riders, and she's in her 80s now,
[12:43]but she's hugely prolific.
[12:44]She was a journalist as well.
[12:46]And things like PG Woodhouse,
[12:47]like old school classic British comedy.
[12:50]That's what I really fall back to if I'm struggling with my own work,
[12:54]which I think probably has a similar sort of tone to.
[12:57]But yeah, I'm probably having a bit of a renaissance of my reading.
[13:01]I'd go through sort of phase,
[13:02]but now that I'm writing more, it's just crucial to me
[13:04]that I read all the time.
[13:07]And yeah, it never fails to inspire me.
[13:09]I've recently got into Catherine Heiney,
[13:11]who I absolutely love as well,
[13:12]another brilliant American writer, yeah.
[13:14]So I have early morning writer is like on my to-read list.
[13:17]Oh, great.
[13:19]I know. I have to.
[13:20]My business partner loves it.
[13:21]It's one of her favorites.
[13:22]And I'm like, I have to read this book.
[13:23]So yeah, I actually prefer to stand a deviation.
[13:27]Oh, okay.
[13:27]Yeah, but they're both just brilliant.
[13:29]She's got such a brilliant voice.
[13:31]And yeah, so yeah, we just have more bookshelves built.
[13:34]And I also go like, oh, I see all the books that we've got.
[13:38]They're just everywhere around the house.
[13:40]And yeah, I really hope it's something
[13:41]that my kids want to be as interested in books as I am,
[13:43]because it's just such a joy to read.
[13:45]I was actually losing hope with my kids to be honest with you.
[13:48]But now the school is like mandating
[13:50]a 20 minute reading period every day at home.
[13:53]And I somehow was not able to implement this
[13:56]with my older kids.
[13:57]And now I don't know.
[13:58]These guys listened.
[13:59]So anyway, we have this new, I don't know,
[14:02]two week old every day have it where all of us
[14:05]sit and read and quiet for 20 minutes,
[14:07]like before TV at night.
[14:09]And it is like the highlight of my day.
[14:11]And they are my little guys are old enough now
[14:13]that they can read all by themselves
[14:15]and chapter books and whatever.
[14:16]And I'm like, this is so great.
[14:18]Not only is it actually finally quiet in my house,
[14:21]but we're all immersed.
[14:22]And the best was the other day when my daughter was like,
[14:25]I was like, okay, like the timer went off,
[14:27]you can stop reading.
[14:27]And she's like, oh, no, no, no, no,
[14:28]I have to get to the end of like what I'm doing,
[14:30]you know, whatever, this is amazing.
[14:31]And then at the moment she was like,
[14:33]we started chatting and she was like,
[14:35]she's like, I'm trying to focus on my reading.
[14:39]And I was like, oh, you are, are you?
[14:41]You know, all I try to do all day is read.
[14:43]And like, you interrupt me a hundred times a day.
[14:46]Anyway, it's been really fun.
[14:47]Yeah, lovely to hear.
[14:49]I think it usually takes, it's like one book
[14:52]that like opens the door to the reading.
[14:55]And my little boy who's seven,
[14:58]he's just passionate about reading now.
[15:00]And it was one book.
[15:01]It was the Treehouse series.
[15:02]I don't know if you can go, yeah, yeah.
[15:04]Absolutely.
[15:04]Literally read all of them in about a week.
[15:06]And now like tears through books.
[15:08]I'm like, I can't kind of quite keep up with him with it.
[15:11]But yeah, I, with my daughter was Harry Potter.
[15:13]So yeah, I think they just have to get
[15:15]that one thing that really sort of sat them off.
[15:18]And then hopefully they'll say big read is forever.
[15:20]Yeah, we're in some sort of dragon master situation.
[15:23]Oh, okay, okay.
[15:25]I don't know.
[15:27]And now of course they're like,
[15:28]well, have you interviewed this author?
[15:29]And I'm like, no, I haven't, you know,
[15:30]and they're like, well, could you just do that now, please?
[15:32]I'm like, okay, I'll try.
[15:35]It sounds adorable.
[15:37]And so what advice would you have to aspiring authors?
[15:42]Gosh, well, I'm going back to the reading thing.
[15:44]I think reading reading reading is so, so vital.
[15:48]I was told by an editor who,
[15:51]who didn't work on my book,
[15:52]but who I knew sort of through friends that it's the one,
[15:56]it's the writers that just with the work,
[15:57]the hardest that get there,
[15:59]which sounds, you know, slightly disheartening in a way, I guess.
[16:02]But actually, I found that working really, really hard
[16:06]was actually helped me deal with the whole process
[16:08]when the book was published.
[16:09]Because I think you do get a bit of imposter syndrome
[16:12]and you do worry that your book's good enough.
[16:14]And I think having that background
[16:16]of just really hard, hard work behind you,
[16:19]not only makes the whole process, you know,
[16:21]when it gets published, just so wonderful,
[16:24]but also with your sort of groundwork
[16:26]for the whole experience itself.
[16:28]She said to me, I remember, you know,
[16:30]this is when most people give up.
[16:31]I think I was on my sort of third draft
[16:33]and I had a few rejections
[16:35]and I was sort of about, you know,
[16:38]been the whole thing.
[16:39]And she said, this is when most people give up.
[16:41]It's the ones that continue on now
[16:44]that make it, you have to put in those extra hours.
[16:47]And actually, she was completely right.
[16:49]And it wasn't ready and I had rejections for good reason.
[16:53]So actually, I think just you've got to work.
[16:55]You've got to put the hours in.
[16:57]And then, you know, hopefully you'll get there.
[17:00]You will be the one that doesn't give up
[17:01]and you'll get to the finish line.
[17:03]I love that.
[17:04]I love it.
[17:05]Especially because you've invested so much time already.
[17:07]You might as well.
[17:08]I think there's some like block, like I've done all this.
[17:11]It should be enough.
[17:13]And then that last little bit, you know,
[17:15]you just can't, I don't know.
[17:16]You have to get,
[17:17]anyway, I love your motivation to sort of get past that point.
[17:20]Yeah, I really think it does.
[17:21]I mean, and I think it has really helped me
[17:25]when I've had those moments of thinking,
[17:26]oh, is it not?
[17:27]It's not good, even though, you know,
[17:29]forms anyone like it and you still have doubts,
[17:31]the whole way through getting it published
[17:33]does not mean that you don't have those doubts
[17:35]anymore.
[17:36]They're there.
[17:37]They're just about different things.
[17:39]And I think, you know, having, as I said,
[17:41]that like real backing of you put those hours in,
[17:45]you deserve to be there actually really helps
[17:48]because it's a daunting process.
[17:49]And, you know, getting reviews and seeing your book
[17:52]and the show's stuff is fantastic.
[17:54]But it's, you know, you do have those insecurities.
[17:57]And I think having those hours and hours of work
[18:00]behind you actually really does help you,
[18:01]help you through it.
[18:03]Amazing.
[18:04]Well, Kate, thank you so much.
[18:05]Thanks for sharing your hilarious and amazing story
[18:09]with us and such a great way.
[18:10]I love your writing style and all of that.
[18:13]So, what fun.
[18:13]And thanks for skipping bath time
[18:15]to do this conversation tonight.
[18:17]So, thank you.
[18:18]Anytime.
[18:19]Anytime you can skip bath time.
[18:21]That's amazing.
[18:23]Now, you can do that tomorrow if you want.
[18:25]I could call you at the same time.
[18:26]Yeah, exactly.
[18:27]Every night.
[18:28]Every night.
[18:29]The regular appearance.
[18:30]So nice to see you, Zibi.
[18:33]Nice to talk to you too.
[18:34]Bye bye.
[18:35]Thank you.
[18:35]Bye bye.
[18:36]Bye.
[18:38]Thanks for listening to this episode
[18:40]of Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books.
[18:42]Don't forget to follow me on Instagram at Zibi Owens
[18:45]and at Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books.
[18:47]Also sign up for my newsletter at zibiowens.com
[18:50]and sign up for my virtual book club
[18:51]and meet lots of authors on Zoom every other week.
[18:54]Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan,
[18:55]in fact, Texture Sound for the Sound Editing.
[18:58]And thank you to Morning Moon Productions
[18:59]for providing this fantastic intro and outro music.