Kaira Rouda, THE NEXT WIFE and SOMEBODY'S HOME
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[0:05]Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books.
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[0:32]And now, back to our daily author interview site and a quick hello from some of my kids.
[0:37]Hi, hello!
[0:38]Enjoy the show.
[0:41]If you like this podcast, you will love my new anthology called Moms Don't Have Time to Have Kids.
[0:47]Here's a little snippet by one of the authors from the anthology.
[0:50]My name is Rex Ogle, author of Free Launch, and I'm stoked to have contributed to Moms Don't Have Time to Have Kids.
[0:56]My essay is called Historia, so bring me stories about me.
[1:00]And what I really don't have time for is making time for self-care.
[1:04]But I'm learning to make time, and so should you.
[1:07]Kyra Ruda is the author of The Next Wife.
[1:09]She is a USA Today and International Best Selling Multiple Award-winning Author of Contemporary Fiction
[1:15]that explores what goes on beneath the surface of seemingly perfect lives.
[1:19]Her domestic suspense novels include The Next Wife, The Favorite Daughter, and Best Day Ever.
[1:24]Her Next Novel, Somebody's Home, is out in January 2022.
[1:27]To date, Kyra's novels have been translated into more than 10 languages.
[1:31]Welcome, Kyra!
[1:32]Thank you so much for coming on Moms Don't Have to Read books to discuss both Somebody's Home and The Next Wife.
[1:39]You're just cranking out the books over here.
[1:42]It's kind of a problem.
[1:44]I think it's a pandemic problem.
[1:46]I just, you know, my kids all came home and we were just in here, and I would come up to my office and just write about other people's stories.
[1:54]If you can't, if you can't move your body, you might as well get your mind out.
[1:57]I think that's another place is.
[1:59]Well, let's start with Somebody's Home.
[2:01]Why don't you tell listeners what it's about.
[2:03]It's coming out January 18th, correct?
[2:06]Yeah, it's funny.
[2:07]It haven't even really talked about it yet because it's, you know, kind of the subject.
[2:11]Yeah, so anyway.
[2:12]But I think the whole story starts.
[2:14]It's centered around a house, somebody's home.
[2:17]And one family's moving out and another family's moving in.
[2:20]And everybody has their own reasons for leaving and staying and changing their lives around.
[2:26]But it's, I think it was during the pandemic.
[2:29]And it was kind of the whole notion of.
[2:31]Home should be a safe place and what happens when it's not.
[2:34]And there's kind of a 20 something guy who has grown up in this house and he lives in the carriage house and he doesn't care who moves in.
[2:41]He's, he's decided it's going to be his home.
[2:43]So it's kind of a, I guess, I don't even know how to describe it.
[2:47]No, you're right.
[2:48]That's true.
[2:49]He does not want to move.
[2:50]He's not happy at all that his, you know, his step parent and parent and the other kid, you know, his half siblings are moving out.
[2:58]And they're in a new home and it has no room for him.
[3:01]And, you know, it doesn't matter that he's in his 20s.
[3:04]It's like, you know, it's a rude awakening nonetheless.
[3:07]So yeah, he's not a happy camper.
[3:09]It sounds like not a happy camper.
[3:11]Yeah.
[3:12]And it was, I mean, it really was kind of that time during the pandemic where you just, you were at your house.
[3:16]And, and thinking about like, what if you didn't have a safe place to be in.
[3:20]So anyway.
[3:21]Yeah.
[3:22]I also thought it was funny too in this book.
[3:24]He said, and she loves to play the victim.
[3:26]And for sure, she's had a great experience with that over the years.
[3:29]I'm not going to curse, but you said, my dad's is something a lot of the time.
[3:32]Look, honey, I'm getting a divorce.
[3:33]I bought my first house and I'm going to make it fabulous.
[3:36]Can you please cheer me on just a little?
[3:38]And then you say, are you trying for the real housewives?
[3:41]Again, I ask dad kept her for doing the reality TV show last time.
[3:44]Now there's nothing to stop her.
[3:46]And I also thought this is so funny because Jill's Aaron is the one who introduced us.
[3:50]So this is perfect.
[3:51]And I'm a little nod to Jill.
[3:53]I know she's so chill.
[3:55]Yeah.
[3:56]Yeah.
[3:57]And I just got to see her.
[3:58]I probably like triggered some like desperate housewives or real housewives kind of thing because she's just,
[4:04]she's so great.
[4:05]And so like just open and out there in the world.
[4:09]And I think that's what people see.
[4:11]And that my character wants to be that person too.
[4:13]Oh, I love it.
[4:14]And also, why don't you plug the next wife as well.
[4:17]I mean, you got somebody books and the sides admire.
[4:20]I mean, there's somebody.
[4:21]You just see it.
[4:22]Anyway, next wife.
[4:23]Well, the next wife in this story was kind of, I had fun with it because it's,
[4:26]it's the story of two strong women and kind of the man that's in between them.
[4:30]So it's the first wife and the second wife.
[4:32]And what I wanted to do with what was, you know, kind of a typical trope was,
[4:36]see if perhaps the power could stay with the first wife in some ways.
[4:41]So Kate is really strong.
[4:43]She's created a business.
[4:45]She and John, her husband had built it and run it.
[4:47]And then everything's going perfect.
[4:49]They're launching an IPO, except for the fact that John has fallen in love with his
[4:53]administrative assistant and married her.
[4:55]My name's Tish.
[4:56]And so that's the wrinkle in Kate's otherwise.
[4:58]Oh, you're always a wrinkle when your husband calls love with somebody else.
[5:02]Yeah.
[5:03]And when you meet them all, they're just all together in the same conference room about to announce the IPO.
[5:08]So there's a lot of tension there.
[5:10]Yeah.
[5:11]Interesting.
[5:12]Wait.
[5:13]So tell me, let's back up.
[5:14]How did you get started writing?
[5:16]And how do you particularly this kind of book and all of that?
[5:20]I know.
[5:21]Yeah.
[5:22]I mean, did you grow up?
[5:23]Like, where are you from?
[5:24]How did we get here?
[5:25]What is my story?
[5:26]Well, okay.
[5:27]I'll try to, you know, make it a short story.
[5:30]But I grew up all over the place.
[5:31]My dad was a professor.
[5:32]And so I was born in married student housing in Northwestern where we got his PhD.
[5:37]And then my sister was born at USC.
[5:39]My brother was born at UT Austin.
[5:41]We got our first pet at Harvard.
[5:42]And then we ended up at Ohio State.
[5:44]So I kind of feel like I've lived everywhere.
[5:46]I went to college in Vanderbilt in the Southeast.
[5:48]So I'm kind of a person who's lived everywhere, I guess.
[5:51]I always wanted to be an author from third grade on when I wrote to Robert McCloskey and said,
[5:56]you know, he was blueberries for sale and my paper ducklings and I wrote to him.
[6:00]And he wrote back and said, well, good luck to you.
[6:02]I'm an illustrator, not an author.
[6:05]Better choose next time.
[6:06]So that kind of illustrates the publishing career.
[6:08]I think it's just, you know,
[6:10]but I did that too.
[6:12]I wrote letters to authors too.
[6:14]I think, yeah.
[6:15]It's like, anyway.
[6:16]I don't know.
[6:17]Now people can just go on Instagram.
[6:18]But yes, yeah.
[6:19]I know it's great.
[6:20]Cause it was like, yeah, they're like celebrities to me.
[6:22]So then I went to college for English,
[6:25]but I never had the courage to get a byline.
[6:28]You know, write anything for anybody else.
[6:29]I always wrote for myself.
[6:31]Went into journalism and got my first byline.
[6:33]I kind of got the confidence there.
[6:34]But then I always wanted to kind of be date to Darren Stevens
[6:38]of you, which as well.
[6:39]Yeah, yeah.
[6:40]I didn't want to be the magic person.
[6:41]I wanted to be that one like creating.
[6:43]So I went into the advertising world ended up running a vice president
[6:47]marketing for, you know, all that glass ceiling stuff super fun.
[6:50]And for a national perfect cleaning company, ironically.
[6:54]And then had to see them for gender discrimination.
[6:57]Sexual harassment.
[6:58]So while I was on the sidelines,
[7:00]I started finally trying to write my novel,
[7:02]which is a long process.
[7:03]My husband and I started a business then and built it.
[7:06]A franchise business to 22 states in residential real estate.
[7:10]And I was able to kind of show real estate people
[7:14]that women make or control 91% of all purchase decisions
[7:18]in the housing space.
[7:19]And back then that was like, I popping.
[7:21]Even though the entire industry was run by women.
[7:24]I mean, women were like 60% of the brokers,
[7:26]but all the bosses were still men.
[7:28]Anyway, so I would go around and use consumer terms like she
[7:31]and her and people would be like, what?
[7:33]Anyway, so it was kind of nice.
[7:35]It was fun to kind of change the mindset of an industry.
[7:38]So we created real living and then sold it to Brookfield in Canada.
[7:43]And then they changed all the GMEC franchises to real living.
[7:47]So all of a sudden it was huge brand.
[7:48]And then they didn't need me anymore because I'm a branding.
[7:51]And so then I finally wrote my first novel.
[7:54]Oh my gosh.
[7:55]Yeah.
[7:56]And actually I wrote a business book first for women entrepreneurs.
[8:00]And that was called really even incorporated eight essentials
[8:03]for women entrepreneurs.
[8:04]And then I went on a little speaking tour.
[8:06]And I would talk to women and say, it's trying to fit your fast
[8:08]into action.
[8:09]But your dreams come true.
[8:10]And I realized I hadn't done that yet.
[8:11]So that's when I started writing.
[8:13]OK, sorry.
[8:14]That was long.
[8:15]No, it was not long.
[8:16]Now that's great.
[8:17]You wrote what you needed to hear yourself.
[8:19]I feel like people often do that, right?
[8:21]Like do they say, write the book you need.
[8:22]And I know.
[8:23]I think so.
[8:24]Even though I never thought about writing a business book,
[8:26]that's what my dad did.
[8:27]So yeah.
[8:28]Yeah.
[8:29]Yeah.
[8:30]So anyway, everything turned out great.
[8:31]And of course, it was a seamless road to publishing.
[8:34]Everything went perfectly.
[8:35]I know.
[8:36]OK.
[8:37]Yeah.
[8:38]Yeah.
[8:39]So then I've done everything I've done.
[8:41]I've done hybrid publishing self publishing.
[8:44]You know, I've done it all, which has been, you know,
[8:46]I think that's part of the process too.
[8:48]And it's been kind of a great journey of learning.
[8:50]Because when you see it from all different sides,
[8:53]you also kind of build your knowledge base and comfort with what's
[8:56]right for you once again fit.
[8:57]So anyway, all in all, I think things do work out the way they're supposed to.
[9:01]And I've been super happy writing domestic suspense because it's just what I really
[9:07]like.
[9:08]And I realized the first novel I ever wrote was domestic suspense or whatever.
[9:12]This is called psychological thrillers.
[9:14]And so when I had kind of found myself in women's fiction,
[9:17]which I liked that as well, that my first three novels were women's fiction.
[9:21]But while my agent was reviewing like this kind of sweet women's fiction series
[9:26]that we were working on, the idea for best day ever popped in my head.
[9:29]And I wrote Paul and he's a creepy character.
[9:32]And you know, I sent it to her like two weeks later it came out really fast.
[9:36]I'm like, OK, I got this idea.
[9:37]And she's like, oh, I don't read those.
[9:39]I'm like, oh no.
[9:41]Why?
[9:42]Yeah.
[9:43]So then I sent it to my beta reader.
[9:44]And she's like, this is the best book you've written.
[9:46]You've got to make her read it.
[9:47]And so then I went back and begged my agent to read it.
[9:50]And she did.
[9:51]And she loved it.
[9:52]And then I got my first big publishing deal, which was really fun.
[9:54]Oh, yeah.
[9:55]Do you still work with the same agent?
[9:57]No.
[10:00]I mean, you know, that's the other thing. Like, I just think I love my agents now love this face and domestic suspense. And I think, again, you know, it all works out for the way it's supposed to be. But yeah, I think it's important to have an agent who loves what you love to like to read what you write.
[10:21]It likes that space and appreciate it. So that's, yeah, so I'm really happy that I have that now.
[10:27]Good. Yeah, you need an agent in your corner. Yes. Yeah. Help someone they like to when they like to read when they like to read the kind of books you write.
[10:35]Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. How long does it take for you to write a book? Okay. So my friend said you should say a lifetime because it's all your experiences.
[10:44]I kind of, I'm a fast writer. So I'll, you know, get a draft in a few months, usually down. But then that makes people go, oh, that's weird. So now I'm like, I don't know. I mean, I don't think it's weird.
[10:56]It's okay.
[10:58]It just kind of depends. I think on the story too. So some stories like just burst into like somebody's home, for example, just burst into my head and like the characters were there.
[11:09]And I, I'm a pants, I don't tell my agents on a pants or even though now I have to pretend to be a flatter because they went to see an outline. So I'll usually just write the whole book and then go back and outline it.
[11:20]I can see if they like it. That's how we're working right now. But somebody, somebody's home just came out really fast and furious.
[11:26]And then other books like the next wife.
[11:29]She was in my head, both the characters first Kate, the first wife. And then all of a sudden, I thought it would be just her perspective, the whole way through and then tissue is like, no, I have some things to say the second way.
[11:39]And then the daughter Ashlyn wanted to have some words as well. And she's strong one.
[11:44]But then through the process, my agents didn't think Ashlyn needed to have to say the daughter. And so they come out.
[11:50]So then on submission, my publisher came back, my editor and she's like, you know, we really need to hear from the daughter. Like, I agree.
[11:57]So, you know, things like that happen where I mean, the whole story idea was kind of there and in the world, but, you know, the process that goes through can take a while.
[12:07]Yeah. Oh, my gosh. So what books have downloaded themselves fully formed into your head lately. Or like, what are you working on now? What are you, what are you toying with?
[12:16]Yeah. So right now I am in developmental edits for my book that comes out next November. Yeah, like soon.
[12:25]This is another coming. No, November. What? November 20. I know. Well, okay, I told you this is like a pandemic creativity boom. So anyway, this one is called the widow's mandate. And so I'm working on three right.
[12:40]Because this is my first one set in Washington DC. And it's about, I think that thing is when a cheating congressman demise allows his wife to take over his congressional seat or something like that.
[12:53]So anyway, it's, it's fun. My husband ran for Congress and it was in office for two years. He's running again to try to get back in, but it was just such a fun experience to see Washington from that side.
[13:05]And so I think that kind of probably this would be a great place to set this.
[13:10]This is the story. So I just finished Hillary Clinton's new book with Louise, Penny. And now I feel like I know all about DC in a whole new way.
[13:19]Yeah, yeah, I haven't read that yet. But yeah, it is it, you know, it's just it's it's whole it's the whole inch a lot is just a whole culture that yeah.
[13:29]Yeah, and I was, you know, peering inside it for like a year and a half before the pandemic.
[13:35]And then yeah, and there's some great things about it. And then there's some just a lot of tradition and a lot of, I guess it's traditions and especially when it comes to this passes their roles and how they're, you know, because it traditionally was almost all women and now that's changing and yeah, it's an interesting time.
[13:53]So how into houses are you like actual houses, like do you go to open houses? I mean, I know this, you know, this somebody said it sort of takes place when a when a house was sold. I personally am like obsessed with going to open houses and like love new houses and all of that stuff.
[14:09]So I was just curious what you're
[14:12]Yeah, I yeah, I mean, yeah, like well, I'm plus being in the real estate business.
[14:19]Yeah, marketing houses and I mean, and I like I like open houses. I also like just Zillow.
[14:27]Yeah, you know, Parisian neighborhoods. I often use real estate websites to pick my houses for my characters. I think that's interesting. Yeah. So like somebody's home.
[14:37]And then I'll, you know, just change them around and stuff, but at least it gives me a visual of where they might want to live or what the neighborhoods like I like doing that too.
[14:45]But yeah, around here it's been we live in Laguna beach and we I guess the history of this neighborhood. There's no inventory.
[14:53]Everything's sold. So there aren't any open houses right now around here because the market's been so hot and I know it has been everywhere. It's just it's such a crazy time. But yeah, I love it too. I love my architectural digest magazines and I always rip things out.
[15:07]Yeah, I'm a big home person to you.
[15:09]It's just something about also the possibility that's why I think it's a great use did for fiction and for especially for suspense because just this idea that like your most personal possession was just somebody else's most person over that.
[15:24]Right. Like it's it's like I can't believe even here like somebody else used to like be sitting in my desk and it looked different, but you know, I don't even know that person and right.
[15:34]It's just crazy. I mean, it sounds ridiculous. I'm sorry.
[15:37]But no, no, I think I mean, I think there is the and the whole presence of the people before you is still there. I mean, there's a family with eight children in this in our house that we've got from them, you know, 10 years ago.
[15:50]I still walk around. Like it's been four kids and, you know, was plenty for that. But eight is a lot in any house. And yeah, you do. I always think that I still think about they had like ramps in the courtyard and like little miniature.
[16:03]Of course.
[16:04]Yeah, it is.
[16:05]How old are your kids? Oh gosh, they're on their 20s. So we're like empty nesting right now. That's why I have three dogs.
[16:13]Killing the house with dogs until, you know, the next phase. But yeah, they excited about your like second whole big writing career here after everything else.
[16:23]Yeah, I mean, my daughter is she's a screenwriter. So she she'll read my books and she also helps me with like teenage girl dialogue. I'll run things by her make sure it sounds like that stupid.
[16:34]And so she does. She works with me and we've written a couple treatments for, you know, like a couple of the novels together. So that's been really fun.
[16:41]I don't think the boys have read any of my books. So by three cents someday, they'll, I don't know, want to sit down and do that for right now that you have it.
[16:50]Yeah, I guess they're like, come on.
[16:52]It's nice having kids give them something to cheer about, you know, I don't know. I feel like for so long, I was just like cheering for them all the time.
[17:03]Like yay, this pretend little soccer award that everybody gets in the class doing like it.
[17:07]And now I'm saying like there, there are things for both of us. I don't know. It's just nice to.
[17:12]Well, and I do. I like I feel like that's what I wrote a lot about that in my book for women entrepreneurs that I mean bottom line is kids want a happy mom.
[17:21]And yeah, whatever fulfills you. But if it's if it's not fulfilling to be doing that soccer thing and I, you know, I've done all that as well. Like to me, it wasn't quite enough. Like I always had to have something continue in my career, even if it's just freelance writing or something that was my own as well.
[17:39]But yeah, I agree. And as long as you're happy doing what you're doing, then your kids are like thriving.
[17:44]Yeah.
[17:46]Although my daughter's like, you know, doesn't like it when I'm ever busy, but you know, what could that's right. I'm like, I'm like, you know, like you're busy two minutes ago. Like what anyway, doesn't matter.
[17:56]Well, I mean, you can't wait.
[17:59]But what you're modeling there is is that, you know, patience and like all those other things that don't necessarily just come about by them seeing you having a focus other than just them all the time.
[18:11]It's really, I really do think it's important and anyway. Yeah. Yeah. I'm sure they're very proud.
[18:17]But just to have something. I mean, I feel like even when they were little, I mean, I did do freelance writing and all this other stuff, but I just, I don't know.
[18:26]Even if I had like done crochet or I don't know if I just had something I was like producing that I was really proud of or something on a regular basis.
[18:37]Yeah. Yeah. I totally agree. I think that's important because you can. It's really easy as you know sponsor and have time to leave yourself in your kids and your family and all of that.
[18:46]And I call it caring about the curtains because when you start carrying a lot about the curtains, you probably have too much time on your hands or you're not, you know, I knew something that could be a little bit bigger helping others. I mean, the other thing is just giving back.
[19:00]I started working at the food pantry again because, yeah, code and all that stuff. And it's so reward like the whenever you give to others, you're, you just get it back to three times and it's just, I don't know, I come back and I feel so happy to have done something tangible for somebody else that morning.
[19:19]It's also that sense of feeling connected to the larger world like when you give back and you know, you're a part of something and.
[19:27]So knows if you're just in your house all day or like, you know, hanging out in the in the carriage house, you know, right forget, but also out there. So I don't know exactly what advice would you have for aspiring authors.
[19:41]Gosh, yeah, well, I tell this, I have a son who's a singer songwriter with Sony and I have a daughter is a screenwriter. So I tell them as I would tell anybody that the only way you won't make it is if you give up because then you won't, but if you just keep going and keep putting out your best content and.
[20:00]and be flexible and be able to pivot
[20:03]if you're hitting the wall too many times
[20:06]and maybe it's time to pivot what you're writing
[20:08]or try some of your new to pitch.
[20:09]But really, if I had given up,
[20:12]I would never be here and that's really it.
[20:14]You just keep writing until something hits
[20:16]and you get that.
[20:19]And then that's the thing with life too.
[20:21]I'll never forget going to B.A.
[20:23]and you are seeing this big poster of F.S. Day
[20:25]ever hanging like six stories.
[20:27]It felt like at the Jefferson right now, I guess.
[20:29]I had that moment where, oh my gosh,
[20:32]this guy who was signing people up
[20:33]for the American Express cards is like,
[20:35]are you okay?
[20:37]That's like, fuck, he's like, oh my God.
[20:39]And so, you know, like that moment, right?
[20:41]They're like actually having your dreams come true,
[20:43]but then you gotta make a new one, right?
[20:45]Because that's like, I never imagined
[20:47]that that would happen.
[20:48]And then it's like, wow, I gotta get another dream going, right?
[20:51]So that whole thing I think that makes life fun
[20:54]is not giving up and sticking with it.
[20:57]When I first went into the B.A.
[21:00]in the Javits Center and saw those flags,
[21:02]I thought I had like died and gone to heaven.
[21:04]I was like, oh my gosh, this is like,
[21:07]like for a book lover to go in there.
[21:09]And I know they're not having a book expo anymore
[21:11]and all that and at least not for a while.
[21:13]I don't know, but oh my gosh.
[21:15]So I just, it was amazing.
[21:18]It was amazing.
[21:19]It really was.
[21:20]It was like, you know, I don't know,
[21:21]whatever the pinnacle of like dreams are,
[21:25]that was it.
[21:26]Yeah.
[21:27]The odds or something.
[21:28]Anyway.
[21:29]Yeah.
[21:30]Well, and I do, I think that because of the so many rejections
[21:32]and so many, it's just a hard business
[21:34]and it's hard to keep going if you can't find it in yourself.
[21:37]And you just need to and it is lonely in your house.
[21:42]And writing for solo and then like,
[21:44]if you're like me and you don't outline
[21:46]then you end up just whacking notes all the way.
[21:48]Oh my gosh.
[21:49]I know I just had it to our call with my editor
[21:51]for the developmental edit and I'm like, ah, okay, yeah, you know.
[21:56]But it's, but it's all, then I tell myself,
[21:58]actually my daughter taught me that she's like,
[21:59]mom, these are all these people caring about your words
[22:02]and they're trying to help you make them better.
[22:04]So don't get pouty, just get back in there.
[22:06]I'm like, you are so right.
[22:08]You're so right.
[22:09]So yeah, anyway.
[22:10]And that every book that every book is not just
[22:13]the author of being like, here you go,
[22:14]but that everyone has input and it keeps
[22:17]doing, can you genuinely improve it, right?
[22:19]So much collaboration and so much.
[22:21]Yeah, just I mean, even like the cover design
[22:24]and like everything that goes into making a story come alive.
[22:27]It's, yeah, it's a cool, it's a cool, scary, hard,
[22:31]fun process.
[22:32]Yeah.
[22:34]And then you get a sit around to wait for reviews
[22:36]of this thing that you've worked on forever.
[22:39]And then people come out and just wouldn't start
[22:41]or this other carcass just reviewed somebody's home today.
[22:45]Oh my gosh, oh my God, I'm sorry, I missed that.
[22:48]This is my favorite full-code ever.
[22:50]Okay.
[22:51]The opposite of family values is
[22:53]Rita seems intent on perfecting a genre that enshrines it.
[22:59]Wow.
[23:00]Oh, well, okay, maybe.
[23:01]Yeah, maybe that's what my people are doing.
[23:05]Yeah.
[23:05]So that's my first, you know, because you get them
[23:07]and you're like, oh no, it can't open that.
[23:09]Yeah, yeah.
[23:10]Well, that's exciting.
[23:12]Yeah, it's like her even reviewed is exciting.
[23:14]I mean, you're a big deal, but you know,
[23:15]I don't know.
[23:16]I know it's great, yeah, but I'm clearly
[23:19]in shining the opposite of family values.
[23:23]Although I think there's redemption in them as well.
[23:26]I won't tell Dan Quail wherever he is these days.
[23:29]Do you remember that when I'm talking about it?
[23:31]Yes, okay.
[23:32]Well, Garrett, thank you so much.
[23:34]Thank you to Jill Zaren for introducing us
[23:36]if you're listening and delighted to have met you
[23:40]and hopefully I'll see you in only one of these days.
[23:42]Yeah, yeah, I'd love that.
[23:43]Because I know I was just gone when you were here.
[23:45]Oh, that's right.
[23:46]The tips crossed me in the night,
[23:47]but I'm usually always here at my house writing stories.
[23:51]Thank you so much, Zippy.
[23:53]All right, thanks so much. Bye, bye.
[23:57]Thanks for listening to this episode of Moms.
[23:59]Don't have time to read books.
[24:00]Don't forget to follow me on Instagram,
[24:02]at Zippy Owens and at Moms.
[24:04]Don't have time to read books.
[24:05]Also sign up for my newsletter at zippyowens.com
[24:08]and sign up for my virtual book club
[24:09]and meet lots of authors on Zoom every other week.
[24:12]Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan at Textures Sound
[24:15]for the Sound Editing.
[24:16]And thank you to Morning Moon Productions
[24:18]for providing this fantastic intro and out trim music.