Sutton Foster, HOOKED: How Crafting Saved My Life
[0:01]Hi, I'm Sivi Owens, and you're listening to the award-winning podcast,
[0:05]Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books.
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[0:32]And now, back to our daily author interview site and a quick hello from some of my kids.
[0:36]Hi! Hi! Hello!
[0:38]Enjoy the show.
[0:42]If you like this podcast, you will love my new anthology called Moms Don't Have Time to Have Kids.
[0:48]Here's a little snippet by one of the authors from the anthology.
[0:52]I'm Kristi Woodson Harvey, and I am thrilled to have contributed to Moms Don't Have Time to Have Kids.
[0:58]My essay is called A Small Shiny Thing.
[1:01]And what I really don't have time for is Getting Sick.
[1:04]Sutton Foster is the author of Hooked How Crafting Saved My Life.
[1:08]She can currently be seen leading Darren Starr's hit TV Land Series Younger,
[1:11]which returned for its seventh and final season in 2021.
[1:14]On stage, Sutton most recently reprised her Tony Award-winning role as Reno Sweeney
[1:18]in Anything Goes with the Barbican Theatre in London.
[1:20]She will soon make her highly anticipated Broadway return as Marianne in the upcoming revival of The Music Man,
[1:26]opposite Hugh Jackman in February 2022.
[1:28]The award-winning actress is also appeared on Broadway in Violet.
[1:31]Anything goes for which she wanted Tony Award, Shrek, Young Frankenstein,
[1:35]the Drowsy Shaperone, Little Women, Thoroughly Modern Millie, for which she wanted Tony Award,
[1:39]Les Misaroble, Annie, the Scarlet Pimpurnale, and Grace.
[1:44]Off-Broadway Sutton has been seen in Sweet Charity at the Pershing Square Signature Center.
[1:47]The Wild Party, Trust, and anyone can whistle.
[1:50]She's toured all over the country with her solo albums, which include Take Me To The World,
[1:55]Wish, and an evening with Sutton Foster live at the Cafe Carlyle.
[1:59]Additionally, she has appeared on television in a million little things,
[2:02]Instinct Gilmore Girls, Year in the Life, Mad Dogs, Elementary,
[2:06]Psych, Bunheads, Royal Pains, Law and Order SVU, Flight of the Concords,
[2:10]and Sesame Street.
[2:11]She holds an honorary doctorate from Ball State University, where she also teaches.
[2:15]Okay, welcome, sudden congratulations on Hook, how crafting saved my life.
[2:21]Welcome to Momstone of Time to Read Books.
[2:22]Thank you.
[2:23]It's nice to be here.
[2:25]Well, this was a beautiful memoir about your family life, of course,
[2:30]but also a great career book, and how does it...
[2:35]It's the answer to everyone's question, like, well, how did that happen?
[2:38]You're like, well, here it is. This is how it happened.
[2:40]You know, leave me alone.
[2:41]No, I'm kidding.
[2:42]Tell me about what was impetus for writing this book.
[2:47]Oh, gosh.
[2:49]I felt like that...
[2:50]I mean, so it's like...
[2:52]I felt like that I wanted to tell my story, and I wanted to share the story,
[2:58]especially of my mom, you know?
[3:00]And it was a lot of different reasons.
[3:03]I had like...
[3:05]I work a lot with young people.
[3:07]I'm on theater faculty at Ball State University, and I was thinking,
[3:12]oh, I want to write a book that's about sort of...
[3:16]You know, like, one of my pieces of advice is to get a hobby,
[3:20]is to have this...
[3:21]Have something else creative in your life that doesn't require someone to give you permission,
[3:27]or, you know, you're not waiting for the phone to read,
[3:29]especially as an actor.
[3:30]You know, you feel like so many times you are...
[3:32]You're sort of waiting for someone else to tell you to be creative when it's like,
[3:36]well, what are some things that you can do that you have complete creative control over,
[3:41]and that have nothing to do with, you know, singing and dancing and acting,
[3:44]and, you know, and I...
[3:46]It's...
[3:47]And for me, like, my crafts, or the things that I make are like...
[3:52]It's part of the tools that help me stay sane
[3:56]and help me navigate this business and help me navigate my family.
[3:59]And like...
[4:00]And I just felt like it was something I wanted to share.
[4:03]And it was also, in many ways, the threat that has held me together,
[4:10]and sort of kept me going.
[4:12]And I just felt like the right way to sort of tell my story and my journey,
[4:17]and also sort of what...
[4:19]This is what I do to sort of, you know, navigate the day-to-day and the ups and downs,
[4:24]and all, and everything.
[4:26]Y'all need our thing.
[4:27]That's for sure.
[4:28]Y'all need my thing.
[4:30]No, but as a structured device for a book,
[4:33]I thought it was so clever and genius.
[4:35]And the fact that it's actually true to your life is great.
[4:37]I mean, what better way to, like, weave together a narrative than to actually have.
[4:41]Oh, yeah.
[4:42]It's like the quilt of my life, you know?
[4:44]And, you know, I have so many things that I love to do.
[4:48]And, you know, I think it's in the beginning of the book.
[4:51]It's like people know me as an actress, singer, dancer,
[4:54]but those who really know me know me as a crafter.
[4:58]And it's like, I always have something I'm working on
[5:02]or something that I'm making.
[5:04]You know, I'm literally...
[5:06]I'm surrounded by...
[5:08]I see, like, little projects and everywhere of things that I've been working on since I've been here in London.
[5:13]But, yeah, it just felt like the thing that could sort of tie it all together.
[5:18]And then I feel like the reception that your craft's got, like the scene with your grandfather
[5:23]when you gave him that thick quilt.
[5:25]And then when he passed away, you had the quilt left over and like,
[5:28]what do you do with the quilt?
[5:29]And then you were just, like, sadly, like maybe I just went to Goodwill.
[5:32]Anyway, that, like, broke my heart that scene.
[5:35]Yeah.
[5:36]It's an amazing thing.
[5:37]It's like, if anyone ever gives you something handmade,
[5:41]there is so much time and care and love or anxiety or whatever emotion can get poured into this thing.
[5:51]And it has...
[5:53]I've learned this now as a maker.
[5:55]It's like, if anyone gives me anything handmade, I treasure it.
[5:59]You know, you can't just discard it.
[6:02]Because it's like heartbreaking.
[6:04]Because so much time and effort has been put into, you know, handmade things.
[6:10]But, yeah, my grandfather was a tough cookie, hard to crack, you know.
[6:16]But yeah, so not a blanket.
[6:18]A blanket couldn't even crack him.
[6:21]But I thought it was really important how you described him.
[6:24]And what he was like.
[6:25]Because then we almost have more empathy for what your mother ends up being like.
[6:30]how she treats you.
[6:31]So I feel like there's always all this context.
[6:33]Right?
[6:34]If you had just talked about her.
[6:35]Right?
[6:36]But everybody comes from something and a lot of things are reaction to how they were raised
[6:40]or the people, the way they've been treated.
[6:42]And then they developed their own mental stuff in response to that.
[6:46]Yeah.
[6:47]Exactly.
[6:48]I mean, the book was really working on it was very many of our things that I knew, of course.
[6:52]But then just sort of digging deeper.
[6:55]And I'm a mom now as well.
[6:57]So it's like, that even changes your perception and perspective of your own parents.
[7:03]You know, it's like, I already, my daughter's only forward.
[7:07]I'm sure I screwed her up a million times already.
[7:10]But it's like, but you realize, oh, I only know what I know that I'm imparting on her.
[7:16]And it's like, and I'm trying to learn and grow and, you know, do my best.
[7:21]And all of those things.
[7:22]And it's like, that's exactly what my mother and my father did too.
[7:26]And they only knew what they knew from their parents of a certain, and everyone's of a certain generation.
[7:31]And it's like, yeah.
[7:33]And everyone sort of grows and learns at different times and speeds.
[7:36]But the book really was, it was this real opportunity for me too to have, it was very healing, you know.
[7:43]I mean, I think that's, and my mom passed away in 2013.
[7:48]So I have the space too to kind of, it's not as raw, you know, to be able to tell the story.
[7:55]So it felt like I gave it a good, good space.
[7:58]And everyone was, you know, my aunt, Marianne, my mom's sister, my, my dad, everyone was willing to sort of look back and reflect and talk about it.
[8:08]And, and tell the, tell the story, the good, the bad, you know, all of it.
[8:12]So it's scary.
[8:13]It's scary to put it out into the world because so much of it is we've never really talked about, you know.
[8:18]And, but I think it was very healing for all of us as a family to to talk about it.
[8:22]And that we were all sort of going through it together, you know.
[8:25]Well, I feel like, you know, there are a lot of people out there who have very complicated relationships with their parents.
[8:30]And then when those parents pass away, the grief is even more complicated, right.
[8:35]Because there's so much unresolved, right.
[8:38]And your mom, you know, I could feel the disappointment, right.
[8:42]When she wouldn't come to the opening of your show and when you did thoroughly modern Millie.
[8:46]And, you know, the ways that she disappointed you in these little bits over time.
[8:50]And even how you said as a child, like you just thought this is the way it kind of was that like this is, you know, who knew.
[8:56]And then you go all the way to like when she's putting deodorant on her lips.
[9:01]And it just is like, oh my gosh.
[9:03]It's, you know, you take the reader on this big emotional journey with you.
[9:07]And it's so, I guess that's how it kind of feels at the end.
[9:10]It's like unresolved.
[9:11]Like so conflict.
[9:12]There's so many different feelings.
[9:14]And that is, that is most people's life and relationships.
[9:18]So I feel like you're helping all those people who probably feel similarly.
[9:22]Yeah.
[9:23]I mean, it's been, I mean, I hope so, you know.
[9:26]And I feel like, you know, my mom gave me so many amazing things too.
[9:33]You know, I never would be doing what I'm doing without her, without her pushing me in, without her, you know, wanting her children to have a life that she didn't have or that she didn't think she could have.
[9:45]And how she went about it, you know, there's, you know, questions about that.
[9:49]But I'm incredibly grateful to her.
[9:52]And, but yeah, I'm more, I'm more in the loss of my mother, but I also more in the loss of a mother.
[9:58]I never had really had, you know, in many ways.
[10:00]way. And it's interesting now being a mom. Yeah. And it's funny because I find myself
[10:06]my daughter, she's four. And she asks, she knows that my mom has died. And she asks
[10:12]some questions about her. But it's funny, but I don't talk about my mom a lot to my
[10:17]daughter. And it was, I did one of the reasons why this book, too, it's like it lives
[10:23]on like an heirloom in many ways. And one day I'll just be like, read this. I mean, this
[10:28]will help you understand your mother. But yeah, it's like, like, yeah, the book becomes
[10:34]sort of like a little time capsule too of just of, you know, any, any, yeah. So anyway, I
[10:41]I, we put a lot of, a lot of thought and love and pain and memories and like all sorts
[10:48]of things into the book crafted it just like I would have blanket, you know, same type of
[10:53]thing, you know. I also thought it was neat getting this, you know, front-row seat
[10:57]if you will into how, how you became, how you get on the starring role on Broadway. And
[11:04]all the twists and turns your career took from that very first audition where you take
[11:08]your friend and like stand up and you like opened your mouth to sing and the whole room
[11:12]gets quiet. I loved that moment because you're like, like reading it. I was like, oh gosh,
[11:17]I wish I were there hearing it. Like what did it sound like, you know, how did I wish
[11:20]I had been there, but it's such a visual moment. And then we get to see how much pain
[11:25]is involved for you too. I mean, those tours that you went on, it's such a young age and
[11:29]those mean girls and being apart from your family and like the raceiness of some of that
[11:35]than like all of that. I mean, it's a lot. And I was so impressed with you. Like when
[11:41]you chose that one touring role versus the role your agent wanted you to pick. When
[11:45]you were like, no, no, this is a company I want to be with. Like that sort of sense
[11:49]of self you had and like that you were so you just knew what you want to wear the right
[11:54]place was for you. That's amazing. Like, where did that come from?
[11:59]I think to be honest, it's like, I think it's like, it's interesting. It's my, my
[12:06]mom. I would, I mean, I'm very, when I was younger and still in many ways, I mean, I
[12:14]can be very sort of green and naive. And I think a lot of it was like naivety and sort
[12:18]of like, you know, when I was, I've always thought of myself as a leaper, like I would
[12:22]leap into the pool, but I wouldn't know how to swim. And that was like my mom and dad
[12:27]were always like, oh my God, you know, I would, I would always, you know, if someone told
[12:32]me not to do something, it only made me want to do it more. So it was like, I don't know
[12:37]what that, I don't know where that came from. You know, it was just like a, maybe it was
[12:41]part of like, because my mom, you know, my mom was very stubborn. And so maybe it's like
[12:45]a little bit of a stubbornness fire that I, you know, I just, I don't know. I wanted
[12:49]to, I, yeah, but I've always sort of trusted my gut, although, and every time that I've
[12:55]not trusted my gut and I've sort of taken the other, the safe route, I've always regretted
[13:00]it, you know. So it's, I mean, that that's like an interesting thing is I, I never, but
[13:05]I think my naivety and greenness really, because I wasn't, I didn't know, like that
[13:11]was a risk. I was just kind of, or that, you know, it could not go well or that it would,
[13:15]I don't know. I just like, I was like, I want to do that, you know, so it was sort of,
[13:20]sort of like dumb and dumb luck. But yeah, a lot of my, a lot of that early sort of
[13:25]greenness of just wanting to work and learn and be with different. And I feel still
[13:30]feel that way in many, many, many ways. I mean, I have different factors now that come
[13:33]into play, you know, I have a family and like, you know, I have to sort of navigate different
[13:37]things now, but I still have this very strong sense of, I have like a strong instinct,
[13:44]I guess, of like, and I still get scared and I want to quit and I want to run away. But
[13:49]then it's like, I have this thing inside me that like won't let me quit. It won't let
[13:55]me stop. Someone says no, it makes me want it more. You know, I always told, I always
[14:01]told my brother, my brother would always be like, don't date this person, don't date
[14:04]that person. And I'm like, you know, I'm going to go date them now, right? You just basically
[14:09]set me up to go date all the bad boys. It was like, I have, I have this, I have this
[14:14]sort of inner drive. And yeah, and sometimes yeah, I don't know. I don't know where, I don't
[14:19]know what where it, I think it really fueled by naivety. And now I don't, I'm not sure
[14:24]what it's fueled by. Maybe now it's fueled by old age. You know, I'm saying of men and
[14:31]all the relationships in your life. You, the one scene you had when Tom was like laying
[14:36]back in bed with his arms, like behind his head, oh my gosh, I just I did. Yeah, yeah, true
[14:46]story. That's when I was like, that's, yeah, yeah, that's when I was like, I'm done.
[14:51]Those moments. So what was this, what was it like? Like, how did you, how long did you
[14:59]write when did you fit this in with your busy life? Like, did you dictate it? Did you
[15:03]work with somebody? Like, how did you get this book done?
[15:05]I worked with a collaborator, amazing woman named Liz Welch. We met in 2000. Hmm. It was before
[15:13]2019. It was before the pandemic. Was it 2019 or might have been in 2018, but we met
[15:19]and started just chit chatting and talking. And I knew I didn't want to do a straightforward
[15:25]memoir. I knew I wanted to, you know, tell my story through, through objects that I've
[15:31]made. I knew that that that was sort of the concept behind it. But it took us two years
[15:37]I would say to sort of, and it's interesting. I really do look at it the same way I would
[15:41]look at like any type of, even though I am, and one of the things I'm most proud of
[15:45]is that it wasn't just me dictating the words and her writing the book. Like, we really
[15:50]wrote it together, which I am so proud of. Like, that it was this incredibly collaborative
[15:57]relationship of writing and words and chapters flying back and forth. And it was incredibly
[16:02]sort of hands-on and sort of in the depths of. We did a big chunk of it during lockdown,
[16:09]like in, during the beginning of COVID that whole summer. And then we did the final push
[16:16]at the end of last year in the beginning of this year. It was like, while I was filming,
[16:20]I was finishing the last season of younger. So it was sort of doing it then, like, in between
[16:24]scenes like I'd be in a corner, you know, working on things. But it was, it was very, it was like
[16:29]we wove it together, which I'm really proud of. It's not, I didn't just buy her the yarn and let
[16:36]her, her makeup. We were like, we made it together. And that's, I'm really, really proud of that.
[16:41]And I feel like that translates in the book to you. So because it really feels like it's me,
[16:46]you know, which is what it should be on a scale of one to 10. How much do you like actually
[16:53]having to talk about your book? Do you love it? Do you hate it? Oh, that's such an interesting question.
[16:58]I'm just starting, you know, like I think the thing is is I'm a little bit freaked out because
[17:03]people are reading it. So I mean, I'm excited to talk about it on scale of one to 10, 10 being
[17:14]like the most excited one being like them. I think I would rather talk about my book than about,
[17:19]I don't know. I'm excited, you know why? Because it has to do with crafting and I really like
[17:23]talking about crafting. So yes, it has to do with me, but I do, I really do love talking about
[17:29]crafting. So I would say, I'll give it a seven. All right. Not bad. Not bad. Not bad.
[17:36]So what's coming next for you? Career wise book world wise. Anything. Look world wise. Hooked
[17:42]comes out on October 12th. I start rehearsals for a brand new Broadway production of The Music Man
[17:48]with Hugh Jackman. We start rehearsals on October 28th, which I'm so excited about. My mother has
[17:56]had tickets to that to take my daughter and it keeps getting postponed. So it's in my calendar.
[18:00]It keeps being like push back because of COVID. So they will be there. I know, I know it's been
[18:06]this thing that I've been attached to for like three years, you know. So I'm excited that I'm
[18:10]finally like seeing it through. And now I realize I was like, my name has been on a marquee for a year
[18:15]and I've done nothing. You know, like that's really weird. But that's great. It's been
[18:20]it's been a really weird time, you know. So that comes out. And that and my daughter is,
[18:26]you know, in pre-K. And I've been in London for the summer. I've been doing a production of
[18:31]anything goes here at the Barbican Theater. I'm in my final week right now. So I'm so sad that I'm
[18:39]going to be leaving London, but I miss my family like crazy. So I'm really looking forward to getting
[18:44]back. And that's it. I'm going to hopefully just be doing a lot more crocheting and creating.
[18:52]And you know, one of my favorite phrases is I have an idea. And so I have lots of ideas. So
[18:59]I'm hoping to be able to, you know, allow the space to be able to just keep creating and keep
[19:05]seeing those ideas come true. You should really just be doing one of your crafting projects while
[19:08]you do your interviews. Well, I thought about it. There's a couple of things I could grab.
[19:16]Yeah. No, I know it's my latest thing. I'll show you, which is very exciting, is that I'm like,
[19:22]and I'm in London, but I've been collecting like glass jars and stuff. You know, like the peanut
[19:27]butter comes in or, you know, olives or something. And I've been crocheting around them making
[19:33]Oh, that's so cute. I love that. Chases or things to put your scissors in. So I have this little
[19:41]collection of like little glass jars that have little hoses on them. So that's what I'm looking at
[19:46]right now. I'm thinking dreaming of what can be, you know, what else can I do? Okay, I won't keep you
[19:52]longer, but do you have any parting advice to aspiring authors? Oh, gosh. I mean, I am a first time
[20:00]author. So it's hard for me to give advice right now because I'm still very much learning.
[20:04]What for aspiring authors? Well, the only thing I can think of is the any type of project
[20:11]that begins with nothing, right? Same with like making a blanket, same with creating a character.
[20:16]There's nothing, right? And so every day, you can't expect, you know, it to be done in a day.
[20:23]You must give it time, you must be patient, you sometimes you make enormous progress,
[20:30]and sometimes you have to, the only analogy I can do is like crocheting a blanket, you know,
[20:35]you have a row a day, a row a day, and then sometimes you're like, oh, man, you have to take out a row,
[20:39]or you realize you look back and there's a big hole, or there's some mistake, you just have to,
[20:44]and it's like a garden too. It's like so funny. It's like pruning a garden. And then at some point,
[20:50]you have to stop. I think that was the hardest part for me. It was like when is it done, you know?
[20:57]But for me in this project, it was like, okay, this is what my story is right now,
[21:02]and it's like a little time capsule of where I am right now in 2021, who I am, the story I want to tell,
[21:10]and I might have another story I want to tell later, but this is the story I'm telling right now,
[21:15]and it will live on, you know, like anything creative that will live on forever,
[21:22]which is also pretty intense. But it's being patient and realizing that not every day is
[21:27]prolific, and sometimes you have to start over completely, but you just got to keep going,
[21:32]and then next thing, you know, you look down and you go, oh, what I made. Amazing. See, that was
[21:37]great advice, you know? I mean, it can kind of, you can sort of take that with anything. Yeah,
[21:43]I think there's an expectation that you have to be brilliant, you know, right away, or that you
[21:48]have to come up with like, I remember one of the chapters in the book I was working on,
[21:53]and I remember it was a day of like, it was a day, it was a snowstorm, it was snowing in Manhattan,
[22:00]we weren't filming because of the snow, and I was working on the chapter of Christian's mom's
[22:05]Christmas cookies. Oh, I loved that. I loved those. Yeah, I think. Oh my God. Yeah, so that's
[22:11]one of my favorite chapters in the book, and I remember I was like, in my bedroom, and it's snowing
[22:15]outside, and it like was all happening, and I was just like writing. I knew exactly what the chapter
[22:22]was. I had the beginning and the end, and I'm like, and it was just one of those things where I went,
[22:27]oh, no, it all worked out, you know, and I was like, wow, if every day it could be like that,
[22:33]but no, it was like this perfect, you know, snowy day, you know, like writing, but then,
[22:39]you know, other days you're just staring and you're like, I have no idea, or a chapter that took us
[22:43]forever to, you know, to figure out, but you just at things take time, and that's okay. Yeah,
[22:50]awesome. Well, Sutton, thank you so much. Thanks for coming on. Thanks for your book and sharing
[22:55]your story, and I wish you all the best. Of course. No, I really enjoyed it. Have a great rest of your day too.
[23:01]Bye-bye. Thanks for listening to this episode of Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books. Don't
[23:07]forget to follow me on Instagram, adsubi Owens, and at Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books.
[23:12]Also sign up for my newsletter adsubi Owens.com and sign up for my virtual book club and meet lots
[23:17]of authors on Zoom every other week. Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan at Texture Sound for the Sound
[23:22]Editing, and thank you to Morning Moon Productions for providing this fantastic intro and