Keele Burgin, WHOLLY UNRAVELED: A Memoir
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[0:41]If you like this podcast, you will love my new anthology called Moms Don't Have Time to Have Kids.
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[1:05]Keeley Bergen is the author of Holy Unraveled.
[1:08]She is an entrepreneur, activist, international best-selling author and filmmaker.
[1:12]Her story of survival and self-discovery has inspired a life dedicated to making a profound impact on people across the globe,
[1:19]through business, education, and storytelling.
[1:21]She believes when a person finds their voice and shares their story, they can change the world around them.
[1:26]From the extreme isolation of her childhood, growing up in a Catholic cult,
[1:29]Keeley has built a global human connection across disciplines.
[1:33]Her business acumen includes co-founding an international strategic marketing company traded on the public market
[1:39]to being instrumental in selling her analytics company to a Fortune 100.
[1:42]While making her mark in business, she maintained a determination to turn her trauma into medicine.
[1:48]This led her to serve in leadership roles on the boards of multiple international nonprofit organizations,
[1:52]including friendship-rich and my impact that empower women through microfinance, local empowerment, and social collateral.
[1:58]Committed to understanding the inner workings of strong women,
[2:02]Keeley set out on a journey producing a movie with Dr. Jane Goodall.
[2:05]Dubbed by Jane as, quote, the real storykeeper, she spent two years traveling with Jane,
[2:10]sitting with the chimpanzees in Gombe and conducting exclusive interviews with Jane, her son,
[2:16]grandchildren, and those close to her for an unprecedented look into Jane's life.
[2:20]Her work has been acquired by the Walt Disney Company and will be the first narrative feature film about Dr. Goodall.
[2:26]Keeley's best-selling memoir, Holy Ann Ravel, delivers a gripping portrait of a resilient young woman,
[2:31]woman who turned her deep shame into awe-inspiring dignity and grace.
[2:35]She is currently in development with anonymous content to bring Holy Ann Ravel to the screen.
[2:40]Her passion to bring women together led her to found, be tribes,
[2:43]and help them ignite their inner compass and make profound transformations.
[2:47]In their lives, through curated tribes, curriculum, and coaching.
[2:50]Be tribes is meant for women who want to be the heroine of their own journey.
[2:54]Keeley's a gifted speaker with a message of hope, resilience, and the power of storytelling
[2:58]that has been shared on national stages and magazines, NPR tours, podcasts,
[3:02]university lectures, circuits, and webinars.
[3:04]And now that I've read her bio, I realize I completely forgot to ask her about this whole movie with Jane Goodall.
[3:09]So you'll have to go for information about that somewhere else.
[3:13]But there'll be lots more to talk about, so listen anyway.
[3:15]Welcome, Keeley.
[3:16]Thank you so much for coming on mom's downtown to read books to discuss Holy Ann Ravel at the end.
[3:21]Everything else.
[3:22]Yeah.
[3:23]I'm so excited to be here.
[3:24]Thanks for having me.
[3:25]I love your cup in the background.
[3:26]Thank you.
[3:27]Yes, she's shaking yourself around and, you know, wants to be a part of this.
[3:31]Thank you.
[3:32]Good dog shit.
[3:33]Like a good dog shit, yes.
[3:34]Okay.
[3:35]Would you mind telling listeners about your memoir?
[3:37]Why you even decided to write this memoir and the crux of it and why it's become the
[3:44]the best selling book that everybody needs to read.
[3:46]Yeah.
[3:47]I can tell you the process is difficult.
[3:49]Just even deciding to put your own story in the world is one decision.
[3:53]And then to put in all of the family secrets that you really aren't supposed to share into
[3:58]the world.
[3:59]At least that's through us taught.
[4:00]It was a long journey.
[4:01]And I really appreciated my agent who's in LA said after she read it, she said I want you to go
[4:07]away for six months and think about if you're ready to put this in the world or not.
[4:12]And I really appreciated that question because my immediate was, well, of course I am.
[4:17]Let's go.
[4:18]Let's go.
[4:19]And instead it gave me a lot of time to just think and say what could the repercussions be.
[4:25]And at the end of the day, I realized that, you know, I've been traveling the world's helping other
[4:29]women tell their story.
[4:30]I worked in Guatemala, Vietnam, Cambodia, all over.
[4:34]And I'm watching a woman tell her story is just this beautiful opening of her heart and
[4:40]and her soul and mind and all, just the amalgamation of all of that.
[4:44]And I realized at the end of the day that I can't ask other women to tell their story if
[4:49]I'm not going to tell my own.
[4:51]And so that was the reason I decided to tell it because I want everyone, man, woman, child.
[4:57]I want them to feel free to tell their story.
[4:59]And especially the ones, the stories that I want to say out loud, those are the ones that are
[5:05]locked me that released the shame and the guilt and the fear.
[5:10]And maybe realize we're all really humans and we can help each other through our story.
[5:16]So that's how Holy Ann Ravel came to be.
[5:19]It took me seven years to write.
[5:21]But when I went back and counted the days, that's how I saved the document over time.
[5:26]It was really only 89 days.
[5:28]Oh, that's interesting.
[5:29]So, yeah, so the writing process was it was allowed it to be what it wanted to be and take the
[5:36]pieces that I could write that day and write those and not force myself into anything, which was great.
[5:43]So when you were debating and whether or not you felt ready to put this out into the world,
[5:49]what parts of it were holding you up the most?
[5:53]Like which parts did it take the longest just to come to terms with and decide to include?
[5:58]And did you end up thinking others out?
[6:01]Yeah, it's a great question.
[6:02]I think as a child, you grow up and you think whatever you're growing up in is normal or I did.
[6:08]This must be the way people are.
[6:11]But it isn't the way we all have such a unique upbringing.
[6:15]I mean at all.
[6:16]And so people say, oh gosh, I grew up and I had a great child and I had great parents and I celebrate them.
[6:22]But there's going to be some along the way that makes you who you are.
[6:26]Whether it's a capital T trauma, a small T trauma, an emotional something, you hated high school, whatever it is.
[6:32]And so I would say the hardest part for me was definitely writing my childhood to go back and visit.
[6:38]My dad was a leader in a Catholic cult.
[6:41]And that to just go back and visit that and see how women were really repressed and still are in a lot of ways.
[6:49]That was really difficult to go see.
[6:52]And just, but it was also a beautiful journey to say, it really did make me who I am.
[6:58]It really wouldn't be the woman I am today and doing the work I do today.
[7:02]If I hadn't been through a lot of the things I went through, which was, you know, your voice doesn't matter.
[7:08]You don't matter.
[7:09]Women should, you know, women should just get married and have babies.
[7:12]That's it.
[7:13]And I got married and had babies. So I love that part too.
[7:16]But I wanted to do also.
[7:18]I wanted to bring other women into that fold and support them in whatever they wanted to do.
[7:24]Well, the scene with your dad when you were sort of hiding from him and having to choose the stick and the bleeding.
[7:31]I mean, that was so intense.
[7:34]Like just to, you know, for a child to go through just as one minor example, right?
[7:40]But just even that terror, having someone you trust turned against you in that way, right?
[7:46]The place you're supposed to be the safest suddenly becomes the least safe.
[7:50]I mean, it's a lot to navigate life like before and after that moment.
[7:55]I mean, I'm putting this, you know, I'm putting words in your mouth here.
[7:58]I would imagine or whatever.
[8:00]I think the hardest thing really to me is just if you grow up and your mom and your dad don't nurture you and love you and care for you and make sure you're okay in the world, then why should anybody else care, right?
[8:15]So the worthiness piece was probably the hardest one for me to finally get to.
[8:20]It took me decades to say, I am, I am worthy.
[8:23]I am worthy.
[8:24]And I just say it over and over.
[8:26]It's in my essence statements in the book.
[8:28]But I had to come up with who am I and then move into those words slowly, surely about the positive side of who I am.
[8:37]But I'm so happy I'm there and that if I could give any gift in the world that would be to let everyone know their worth and to have hope for no matter what you've been through,
[8:48]whether it's happy, sad, miserable, tragic, there is hope on the other side for a really happy life.
[8:54]And so what got you to that realization?
[8:58]Being along, I would have to say it's in the book.
[9:02]The book is broken out in three segments.
[9:04]The first is my childhood as we talked about kind of crazy and charismatic renewal and Catholic stuff and abuse.
[9:12]And then the middle part was me escaping trying to escape all of that.
[9:18]So I left, I left my family and I moved and I was on my own and all of that.
[9:23]But it was like I was chasing adrenaline to try to make sense of it all.
[9:28]There was no person to put a boundary on to me anymore.
[9:31]So I was just kept escalating until I was really making very, very poor decisions and breaking in a drug dealer's houses, you know, bad decisions.
[9:40]So I ended up in thought I might not live.
[9:43]Like this is I have to make a decision to why I want to live.
[9:47]And I didn't want to die, but I didn't know how to live.
[9:51]And so I was in this juxtaposition of life and death kind of thing.
[9:56]And it's funny to think back because I just hitchhiked to Canada.
[10:00]And I didn't have much money.
[10:02]I didn't have many belongings,
[10:04]but I remember that there was a priest there that I trusted.
[10:08]And I thought he was there.
[10:11]He wasn't there when I got there,
[10:12]but I did end up seeing him again.
[10:13]But I went to this, it's called a Leopostalic community,
[10:18]a Catholic community in Canada
[10:20]where I lived in silence with 150 other people.
[10:23]He spoke during meals and things like that.
[10:25]But I think it was that, again,
[10:28]I had juxtaposition of Catholicism on one side,
[10:31]which was my dad trying to be God, really.
[10:34]And there was Catholicism on this side
[10:36]in a Leopostalic community of just love.
[10:38]They just loved me.
[10:41]I showed up on their doorstep and they took me in.
[10:43]And I worked.
[10:44]I shared sheep and chickens and milked cows
[10:48]and, you know, picks strawberries for days on land
[10:51]and wash tank or chips, like it's in the book.
[10:54]But we all helped each other to live.
[10:56]So while I was cooking a meal,
[10:58]someone else was cutting down wood,
[11:00]someone else was melting a cows, we could have milk.
[11:02]It was just this beautiful synergy of life.
[11:06]And that taught me love.
[11:08]It's taught me that we can care for each other
[11:10]in the smallest of ways.
[11:12]One of their mantras is,
[11:13]do the little things exceedingly well.
[11:16]And I loved that because I might be claiming
[11:18]someone's handkerchief,
[11:19]but I'm gonna do it really well.
[11:20]I'm gonna do it with love.
[11:21]And I think that's what healed me,
[11:23]the silence to go deep inside myself
[11:26]to figure out how who I was.
[11:29]And then I was lovable.
[11:31]And then these people surrounding me with that same,
[11:34]that same love, that same acceptance.
[11:37]Wow.
[11:38]I know you wrote about your journey so beautifully.
[11:40]I mean, it's not easy, right?
[11:43]I mean, some of the paths are just so,
[11:45]you wouldn't expect necessarily.
[11:47]I was even telling my kids this morning
[11:49]when I was talking about the books I was covering.
[11:51]Because I like to keep them in the loop of bad books.
[11:53]Also to show them that books are not just like boring,
[11:56]black and white things.
[11:57]Like you open them up and crack open someone's story.
[12:00]And you're like, anyway, I was just discussing
[12:01]this whole silence retreat situation.
[12:04]And they were like, what?
[12:06]She did, you know, how did she do that?
[12:08]I'm like, I know, it's amazing.
[12:10]So yeah.
[12:11]She doesn't know how she did it.
[12:13]I know, I mean, a year was a long time.
[12:14]I thought maybe I'd last, you know, a week or so.
[12:17]But to be there, I was over, it was over a year.
[12:19]It was a thing for sure to be quiet out of the way.
[12:22]Yeah.
[12:22]And to live in community, I think that part to 150 people.
[12:25]It's not like we all had our own room.
[12:27]You know, it was one dorm for all the women.
[12:30]So it was, it was challenging, but I loved it.
[12:33]I loved it.
[12:34]And then what has it been like as a parent
[12:37]getting the opportunity to sort of rewrite history
[12:40]with your own kids?
[12:43]That's a beautiful question.
[12:44]Thank you.
[12:45]I have three boys and I know that they know
[12:48]they are unconditionally loved.
[12:50]They're so loved and they are allowed to make mistakes.
[12:55]They are allowed to have their opinions.
[12:57]They're allowed to disagree with me respectfully.
[12:59]They're amazing boys.
[13:01]And I think that's what can come out of a lot of trauma
[13:04]sometimes is this beautiful, I have three beautiful gifts
[13:08]to give the world, you know, and I watch them.
[13:10]Now I have 21 year old and two 15 year olds
[13:12]and I watch them move in the world in such a safe man.
[13:16]Like they're safe.
[13:17]They know they're safe in the world.
[13:18]They know they're loved.
[13:18]They know that they can ask for what they need.
[13:21]So that's been, I mean, obviously,
[13:23]they're my three greatest gifts
[13:25]and probably my book being life-worth.
[13:27]I know, that's my boyfriend and we put the in all of that.
[13:31]But it's just birthing that story gave me so much
[13:36]of myself back.
[13:37]And how did they feel about the book?
[13:40]Well, they're not allowed to read it until they're 18.
[13:42]Okay.
[13:43]And my 18, there's just a lot in there that I don't think
[13:45]any son wants to hear their mom went through
[13:47]until they have a certain level of maturity.
[13:50]My 21 year old decided not to read it at 18.
[13:53]He started to read it last year and said,
[13:55]I can't read it out too mad at your dad.
[13:59]So he has no one's ready yet.
[14:02]But I have one son who said,
[14:03]I can't wait to train 18.
[14:05]I'm like, oh, okay.
[14:06]Yeah, so that I got three years well.
[14:10]I'm impressed by your ability to enforce that rule.
[14:14]I feel like I can't enforce any rules anymore.
[14:16]I mean, I shouldn't admit that.
[14:17]That makes me sound like a bad mom.
[14:18]And I'm just like, any rule I can enforce feels like
[14:21]such a major victory, you know?
[14:22]Like, yeah, right.
[14:24]Oh, I guess.
[14:25]That's awesome.
[14:26]So tell me then about B tribes,
[14:28]because that's like so fascinating too,
[14:30]that you started the whole, this whole other area.
[14:33]So tell me about that.
[14:35]If I, my dream to the rest of my life is to write
[14:39]and to run B, my company, I love it so much to be it's,
[14:43]so it came out of all of this work I've done
[14:46]with women around the world.
[14:47]And I've kind of put it together.
[14:49]And it's all about vocal empowerment.
[14:52]It's about transformation.
[14:54]It's about igniting whoever you are on the inside,
[14:57]bring it to the world.
[14:58]It's really, it's about making a profound impact.
[15:01]And what do you want your impact to be?
[15:03]Do you want it to be raising your kids?
[15:05]Do you want it to be a business?
[15:06]Do you want it to, whatever you want to be?
[15:08]That's why I named it B, B in that moment even.
[15:12]you can be happy, sad, mad, pissed off, angry, passionate,
[15:17]wherever you are, be there.
[15:19]And you will have a group of women surrounding you
[15:22]to hold you in that, whatever that is for you.
[15:25]So we put together small tribes of women,
[15:29]like about 12 to a tribe,
[15:31]and we kick off a six month curriculum together.
[15:34]And it is the most transformative thing I've ever been a part of
[15:38]to watch these women for six months,
[15:41]hold each other, support each other,
[15:44]both professionally and personally.
[15:46]And one of the major tenets is that we're all the teacher
[15:51]inside and we're all a student inside.
[15:53]It just depends on the topic, right?
[15:56]So if you put that many women together, 12 or so,
[16:00]there's such wisdom, that collective wisdom that happens.
[16:04]And then when you put kind of the sacred circle around it
[16:06]to say we've got each other and we're not going to share
[16:10]what you share.
[16:11]We're only going to hold you gently accountable
[16:14]to be the best woman you can be.
[16:15]So we do that over and over again.
[16:18]And we kick it off in Mexico, which isn't terrible.
[16:21]We get an amazing beach trip out of it.
[16:25]And four days in Mexico, and then we start our six month
[16:28]curriculum doing a lot together.
[16:30]And we also, we meet on Zoom every other week
[16:33]because the women are all over the country.
[16:36]And then we come together at the end of six months
[16:38]for another retreat up in the Rocky Mountains,
[16:40]where we just celebrate each other.
[16:43]So I just feel blessed I get to watch these women grow
[16:47]and change and trust and become
[16:49]who they really meant to be.
[16:51]It's fantastic.
[16:52]How do you pick the women?
[16:54]Right now, it's been, so it's been going for four years.
[16:57]I stopped during COVID, obviously.
[16:59]We went online for a while.
[17:01]But they really come to, they come from Holly and Ravel,
[17:04]they come from Word of Mouth, from the other B people.
[17:08]Really, that's all it's been right now.
[17:10]I'm really in a process of solidifying,
[17:14]like the curriculum is now really solidified.
[17:16]My pivot during the pandemic was to make sure
[17:20]that we're exactly who we say we are.
[17:23]And we are, and the curriculum supports that.
[17:26]So now we're gonna start expanding.
[17:27]We'll be doing a lot more tribes moving forward.
[17:31]We're gonna do four next year.
[17:32]And I want to hold on to this as long as I can
[17:35]in the closeness of it before,
[17:39]because it could go big fast.
[17:40]And I want it to be really just out all hours for a little while.
[17:45]This team of women and myself.
[17:47]So yeah, it's been really great.
[17:49]We're kicking off one in at the end of September.
[17:52]And then we have another one kicking off in January.
[17:55]And then subsequent.
[17:56]So I'm really excited.
[17:57]And I can't wait to go to Mexico.
[17:59]Where are you going in Mexico?
[18:01]I ran a whole place where we are in Miami.
[18:03]Oh yeah, yeah.
[18:04]So we have this big 16 bedroom home.
[18:06]It's very insular because I want the women to feel as safe
[18:10]as possible as there.
[18:11]I tell them we're gonna spoil you rotten
[18:13]and crack your heart open at the same time.
[18:15]So wow.
[18:16]It's great.
[18:16]Oh my gosh.
[18:17]I wish I had time to do something like that.
[18:18]That sounds amazing.
[18:20]Wow.
[18:21]It really does.
[18:22]If people listening want to be in one of your tribes,
[18:24]how do they sign up or where do they get more information
[18:27]and all that?
[18:27]Yeah, please come to keelburgan.com.
[18:30]It's keel-e-l-e and the Bergen is B-u-r-g-i-n.com.
[18:35]And you will see B-tribes right on there.
[18:38]And my creator of opportunities is awaiting
[18:41]to hear from you.
[18:42]And then I'd love to chat with them as well.
[18:45]Amazing.
[18:46]Everyone at B has been through B,
[18:48]which is really cool too.
[18:50]They've all been through the process
[18:51]and have changed themselves.
[18:54]And now they want to give back
[18:55]and sense of beautiful circle.
[18:57]City, you obviously have like B alumni stuff.
[19:00]Yeah.
[19:01]It's a lot.
[19:02]That's great.
[19:03]How wonderful to like not only record
[19:06]and share your experience in the book,
[19:08]but really turn it all into something
[19:10]that helps other people.
[19:11]I mean, that is, you kind of continued down
[19:14]these other paths so easily, right?
[19:17]Or just not even been here.
[19:18]I mean, there are all these times.
[19:20]It's such a blessed, I mean, it sounds ridiculously hokey.
[19:24]I'm sorry, but it is like what you're doing.
[19:27]And then to connect other people and all of that,
[19:28]I just interviewed right before you,
[19:30]and I don't know where in the schedule,
[19:33]everything will come out.
[19:34]So, but I did just interview this other author
[19:36]who wrote a book about how to be sad.
[19:37]And part of the blessing of sadness and trauma
[19:41]is an increased ability for human connection.
[19:45]And I feel like this is like case in point, right?
[19:48]This should be like, you know,
[19:50]because people who have gone through stuff,
[19:54]there's this need to band together.
[19:56]And you're literally doing that with your business model.
[19:59]I mean, that's...
[20:00]what you're doing. So it's great. Yeah. And it's an amazing women. I mean, it doesn't have to
[20:04]be someone who went through trauma either. It can be someone who just wants to be happy.
[20:07]Yeah. Who doesn't want to be happy? Yeah. I interviewed her for position on this beach
[20:13]time and she said, I said, what is it? You know, it's the thing. And she's like, she's got a great
[20:17]career. She's taking marketing officer, publicly trade company, you know, she's like, I don't
[20:21]want to learn how to be. I just want to be happy, you know, and just be able to be wherever I am.
[20:27]So it's like, it's all walks of life, which makes it even more special. And I feel blessed just
[20:32]to be able to watch it and see the partnerships and see how people's lives change and to see
[20:39]what could have been really, really awful life for me to be so happy. I just feel so grateful. And I
[20:45]just want people to hear that. But there's so much hope through trauma. You know, that's amazing.
[20:51]So what are your future writing plans? Do you have any or are you going to do more books? I
[20:56]yeah. So my, yes, I really need to get on my second book after I launched this next drive. I keep
[21:01]telling myself, I don't know any motivational tips that you have. Yeah, I mean, everybody else would say,
[21:07]just do it, you know, but I don't know. I think I mean motivational tips. Well, you keep talking and I'll
[21:13]think if I have tips. Well, I just need to get to doing it. I need to remember that it was really
[21:18]89 days. I just had to sit down and do it. It's just a challenge I want to do in the world,
[21:23]writing is so close to my heart. I, some of my favorite days of my life were staring out the
[21:30]window of my writing studio and being able to have that freedom to just write. And so I won't
[21:36]really pick up where I left off. I had the outline chapters. It's going to be more about what I
[21:41]really want to talk about is the things that people don't want to say aloud. I want to talk
[21:46]about what it feels like to be cheated on. I want to talk about what it feels like to lose a child.
[21:51]I want to talk about it feels like the hard subjects that I believe can really bring us together
[21:56]is where I want to spend my time and my energy. And so I want to write about things that have
[22:01]happened to me that I've most likely happened to others and have that dialogue and have that
[22:07]conversation and talk about how I got through it and hopefully they can help them get through it.
[22:13]Well, this is going to sound like overly simplistic, but it seems like most books and most people's
[22:20]desire to reveal secrets is the major sort of propulsive force in narrative, right? Somehow,
[22:27]working through there, something there, ashamed of, something that they hadn't told before,
[22:31]something that, and then the flip side of that is making sure it's seen, right? So like I just
[22:39]interviewed, not, I don't usually talk about other interviews, but I haven't interviewed yesterday
[22:43]this man, Jesse Thistle, who wrote from The Ashes. It's just this beautiful Canadian memoir,
[22:47]which you should totally pick up and read because he's overcome. You should actually have
[22:50]two of you should really meet if you want me to, I'll connect you. But anyway, his whole thing,
[22:54]and he's from an indigenous people is that, you know, for collective trauma, it has to be witnessed
[23:00]for it to be overcome in some way. And I just feel like that's like for everyone who keeps the
[23:07]secrets, you cannot heal until you share it and and have it be like seen and tended to to move on.
[23:15]So anyway, I see you and I hear you. I see you. I hear you. And the people need to hear that.
[23:22]I work with the Mayan culture in Guatemala, so I really understand that. And like he said,
[23:27]who doesn't love the hero's journey? Yeah, right? Just to say there was this call to adventure,
[23:33]am I going to take it or not take it? And my call to adventure was to write this book. And it
[23:37]changed my whole life. I mean, my whole life changed my marriage. It changed my where I lived. It
[23:44]changed my work. It changed so much and to sit in gratitude for that and to offer that to others
[23:50]as a gift, hopefully that they pick up and run with. Yeah. Well, I think that might just be the
[23:57]real use of literature in addition to, you know, intellectual stimulation and teaching. And, you know,
[24:03]I just or at least for memoir and some narrative fiction. And I don't know, I think that's why
[24:08]as a culture, it's so important. Because without it, don't talk about it. Yeah. Where did
[24:14]that? The trauma, the worst trauma would be if we didn't talk about it. Right. Right. Yeah. So
[24:19]I'm staying in Atlanta. Anyway, this is not, you know, these are, you know, very deep thoughts this
[24:24]morning. But, you know, I do think that anyway, people talk about why is reading important and all
[24:28]this stuff. But you're witnessing people's pain. And that makes them able to live. And they're
[24:34]being more important than that. Yeah. Turning it to medicine. Right. Yeah. If you can take your own
[24:38]things and give it to someone else's medicine. Yeah. Like, I've got through this, you can do it too.
[24:43]I've been thousands of people reach out and say that happened to me and I hadn't been able to
[24:49]tell my mom or that happened to me. And I finally said it out loud. And, you know, I always,
[24:54]I always tell people to make sure you have the support when you say it out loud too. You know,
[24:57]I don't want you to just, that's how you're not loud. And not have that support when it's over.
[25:02]When you go home, but you can find those people that you can say all those things out loud and
[25:08]say them in the time that you're ready and the time to heal. You know, for me, it was, I did a lot
[25:14]of EMDR therapy. And that's what allowed me to really be healed. I mean, I don't have, there's always
[25:21]going to be scars from childhood, but they're not, they're not prevalent in my life at all.
[25:26]I really want to explore this EMDR therapy. I've heard so much good stuff about it recently from
[25:31]like trauma experts and grief counselors. And it's like keeps coming up. I feel like it's the only
[25:35]therapy I haven't tried. Anyway, it's life giving for sure. Yeah. Okay, awesome. Amazing.
[25:49]Well, thank you so much, Keil. This has been awesome. Really like inspiring truly. And
[25:54]oh my gosh, the idea of these women in Mexico and all of you guys like sharing stuff in this house.
[26:00]Oh, that's so nice. You should film it. It should be a show. Honestly, you should, you should
[26:05]like do a, should make it. Right. Anyway, yeah, if I could make everyone feel safe on the camera,
[26:10]I would do that. But some of the, yeah, when we go deep, I don't think they want to run film,
[26:14]but you never know. That might be a good idea. Right. Pauline Rappelton development. Go to the screen.
[26:19]Is that so great? Yes. Oh my gosh. Wait. Tell me about that. What else can you share?
[26:23]I don't know yet if it's going to be TV series or if it's going to be movie, but I'm working with
[26:28]the people that brought e-pray love to the screen and you brought. Yeah. So it's really,
[26:33]really exciting. I'm thrilled about it. Oh my gosh. So we'll see you too. Continue. Amazing. Stay tuned.
[26:39]Well, it was so great to connect today. Thank you so much. And I'll be following your journey.
[26:43]So cool. Yeah. I'll follow yours as well. Congratulations. Thank you.
[26:49]Yeah. It was great to meet you. You too. Take care. We'll do it again. Okay. Bye bye. Bye bye.
[26:53]Thanks for listening to this episode of Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books.
[26:58]Don't forget to follow me on Instagram at zebi Owens and at Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books.
[27:03]Also sign up for my newsletter at zebiowens.com and sign up for my virtual book club and
[27:08]meet lots of authors on Zoom every other week. Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan in fact texture
[27:12]sound for the sound editing. And thank you to Morning Moon Productions for providing this
[27:17]fantastic intro and outro music.