Sabrina Benaim, I LOVE YOU, CALL ME BACK: Poems
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[0:37]Hi, hi, hello.
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[0:41]If you like this podcast, you will love my new anthology called Moms Don't Have Time to Have Kids.
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[0:51]My name is Abby Maslin, and I am thrilled to have contributed to Moms Don't Have Time to Have Kids.
[0:57]My essays are called the pursuit of becoming and called the page.
[1:02]And what I really don't have time for these days is reading all the emails that come from my kids' schools.
[1:08]Happy reading.
[1:09]Sabrina Benamine is the author of I Love You, Call Me Back.
[1:14]Sabrina is a poet, storyteller, and workshop facilitator.
[1:17]She is one of the most viewed spoken word poets of all time, and is the author of the best-selling collection of poetry,
[1:23]depression, and other magic tricks.
[1:25]Sabrina believes in breaking down stigma around mental illness, women helping women, and ghosts.
[1:30]She lives in Toronto, Ontario.
[1:32]Welcome, Sabrina.
[1:33]Thank you so much for coming on Moms Don't Have Time to Read books to discuss.
[1:36]I love you, Call Me Back.
[1:37]Thank you for having me.
[1:39]It's such a pleasure.
[1:40]I love this concept, by the way.
[1:42]Moms, don't have time to read books.
[1:44]I just got a picture of it called Tickle.
[1:47]Is that funny?
[1:48]I don't know.
[1:49]Yeah.
[1:50]Anyway.
[1:51]Okay.
[1:52]Your poetry is beautiful.
[1:54]I feel like I've just relived the pandemic in this book.
[1:57]And like, you know, I also want to call my mom, who I just saw.
[2:01]But anyway, thank you for sharing your sort of experience.
[2:05]Well, anyway, maybe I should let you summarize it.
[2:08]Sabrina, what is your book of poems about?
[2:12]I will apologize off the bat because my dog is Mabel, who appears lots of times in the book.
[2:19]I also used to have a dog named Mabel.
[2:22]Oh, I love that.
[2:23]What a good dog.
[2:24]Bulldog.
[2:25]What kind is your dog?
[2:26]Oh, so cute.
[2:27]I have a long haired Daxson.
[2:28]Oh, okay.
[2:29]Yeah.
[2:30]A little missus.
[2:31]A little weird.
[2:32]Oh, my dog noise around here somewhere.
[2:34]Yeah.
[2:35]She's out of the country.
[2:36]You can't even see her because she's like camouflaged.
[2:38]Oh, that's perfect.
[2:39]Mine is fine to be on my left.
[2:41]Anyways, the book is, it's kind of like a semi fictional account.
[2:45]Okay.
[2:46]It's very, what is the word I'm looking for?
[2:49]Okay.
[2:50]In a lot of ways, it was birth during the pandemic.
[2:52]So a lot of the poems did exist before.
[2:55]Like that's kind of where my bones came from.
[2:57]And then during the pandemic, my mom was diagnosed with an aortic aneurysm.
[3:02]That kind of like put us all in a little bit of a head spin.
[3:05]And just like having so much time to think about it,
[3:09]I think is where the birth of a lot of these poems came from.
[3:13]Because I was really trying to navigate that while also navigating.
[3:17]Like the pandemic and the loneliness of that.
[3:20]And then the semi kind of fictional stuff is the relationship that happens throughout.
[3:25]That is like a combination of many relationships that have played out in my lifetime.
[3:31]So that's kind of the element of.
[3:33]Of alternate reality throughout all of it.
[3:36]And I think I'd do that to cope a little bit in writing like to cope with what I'm going through.
[3:40]I have to write kind of some kind of fiction into my poems.
[3:44]To not feel too vulnerable, giving too much away.
[3:48]If that makes sense.
[3:49]Love it.
[3:50]Yes.
[3:51]Because that's give a lot of way I feel.
[3:53]The rest of the poems?
[3:54]Yes.
[3:55]Yes.
[3:56]No, it's great.
[3:57]I mean, it's very open.
[3:58]I mean, to be honest, I thought when I first started reading it,
[4:00]that it would be mostly about your mother.
[4:02]And I didn't have like you don't immediately show the timeframe.
[4:06]And so I kept reading and I was like,
[4:08]banana red and tick-tock.
[4:09]This must have been last year.
[4:11]Anyway, not to make light of last year and all of the horror and everything.
[4:16]But I just meant anyway, then as the poems go on, it becomes clear and clear that they're coping with the craziness that was being, you know,
[4:25]the lockdown and then obviously everything on top of it.
[4:28]And kind of prior to this, I was living alone for a period of time.
[4:32]So it all matched in together those feelings.
[4:35]This is the poem when I realized, can I read a couple of the excerpts?
[4:38]Is that okay?
[4:39]Okay.
[4:40]The good news.
[4:41]The good news is spring came.
[4:42]Came anyway.
[4:43]Hyacinth and strawberry bologna is bloomed.
[4:45]Myrtle spilled over concrete corners.
[4:47]Those little lime green plants.
[4:49]The ones that look like shrek ears sprouted into high-rise bushes.
[4:52]The robin's spilt nests.
[4:53]They're perfect blue eggs.
[4:55]Nuzzled in Desiree's mailbox.
[4:57]I checked on their well-being via Instagram.
[4:59]I opened the windows to be part of the world outside.
[5:02]The world is outside.
[5:03]It is unfathomable.
[5:04]I stay inside repotting plants, baking banana bread, learning unnecessarily complicated TikTok dances.
[5:10]And that's what I knew.
[5:12]Anyway.
[5:13]Then you have this other page I just wanted to like show because when you have the panic attack poem.
[5:21]Oh my gosh.
[5:22]As someone who has like tremendous anxiety and panic sex myself.
[5:26]I was like, oh, that's perfect.
[5:28]Because the page itself seems so chaotic the way you see all the letters repeating over and over.
[5:33]and it captures that kind of like you can't catch your breath thing.
[5:37]And then of course you like go into it.
[5:39]So tell me a little bit about writing and how you have chosen poetry and like form versus content.
[5:46]And how you made the decisions because you have all different shapes and sizes of poems throughout here.
[5:50]And some are even more like paragraphs.
[5:52]Anyway.
[5:53]So tell me about that.
[5:54]Because I'm not a poet.
[5:55]I don't know.
[5:56]Tell me.
[5:58]Poetry just feels like a language that I can speak more fluently.
[6:02]If that makes sense.
[6:03]Like it just feels like I don't have to say everything, but I can say some things in a lute and get it just feels like a comfortable language for me.
[6:11]So that's why poetry.
[6:13]It's just like something about it just works for me.
[6:16]I feel like there's poems everywhere.
[6:18]And you're just always trying to catch them.
[6:20]And so it just is my language I think.
[6:24]In terms of like content versus form, I think it's a lot of fun to play with form.
[6:28]Form really excites me as a writer.
[6:30]So I really I find myself wanting to push myself more and more into form as I keep writing.
[6:38]And this book was such a fun exercise.
[6:40]And like, okay, if we set it over a month, how does the form get to play out inside of this already kind of month form.
[6:49]And so that was really fun for me.
[6:51]It felt really like moment of you kind of when you look through it as a narrative throughout the month, you need those little breaks.
[7:01]You need those little thought bubbles.
[7:03]And I think that played into the shorter poems really well when writing them.
[7:07]They were fun to kind of write like reflections or sometimes it would it would be like there's a little one about Diana Ross about.
[7:16]I was going to read that one.
[7:17]And then I was like, she couldn't want to go there.
[7:19]I actually dug here in that page where they have to find that.
[7:22]Yeah, that was funny.
[7:23]It was on the left.
[7:24]Hold on.
[7:25]That one started as a team.
[7:26]Right.
[7:27]And so they kind of work their way in from whatever form.
[7:30]Yes, I have it here.
[7:31]I haven't groomed my, you know, since March and even though I was born in 1987, I think I understand the 70s now.
[7:37]I put on the boss by Diana Ross and twirl of that.
[7:40]I love that.
[7:41]And you have it like all the way down here on the bottom.
[7:43]That was also very clever.
[7:45]Yeah.
[7:46]Yeah.
[7:47]I don't know exactly.
[7:48]I don't know.
[7:49]Yeah.
[7:50]That started as a tweet.
[7:51]And then was just like, you know what, I'm going to work that in that.
[7:54]It's what's going on.
[7:56]You had another thing where you talk about how you were trying to send clever tweets so much.
[8:00]Right.
[8:01]Did you say something about my own matic tweet lyrics.
[8:05]Yeah.
[8:06]I'm like a sucker for that.
[8:09]Like any kind of subtext lyric post.
[8:12]I'm into it.
[8:13]Do it.
[8:14]Wait.
[8:17]How is your mom?
[8:18]My mom is good.
[8:19]Actually, she just last week we found out that she is surgery free for another year.
[8:25]So,
[8:26]Oh, what a relief.
[8:27]Oh my gosh.
[8:28]It is very nice.
[8:30]Yeah.
[8:31]So we're doing good.
[8:32]We're rounding into the holiday season and my mom is a Christmas fanatic.
[8:35]So she's very happy about that.
[8:38]And yeah, things are good.
[8:39]She got to read the book, which was a pleasure.
[8:41]She has depression and other magic tricks.
[8:43]Actually, the funny story about the depression poem is that it happened before my mom ever heard it.
[8:50]So when it went online, it was the first time she really heard the poem.
[8:56]She had her drafts, but it was the first time she saw it and heard it.
[8:59]And so this time around getting the pleasure of giving her the book before it's out and letting her read it just because it's so much about her was so nice.
[9:09]And she loved it.
[9:10]And so that was really lovely.
[9:12]And so now it's kind of circulating in my family, everyone's.
[9:15]Oh, lovely. Yeah.
[9:18]I loved also the poem where you have your phone conversation with each of your words like sort of on the other side and how you're really not addressing.
[9:27]You're trying to talk about it.
[9:28]She's totally avoiding it, talking about like, it's just like such a relatable conversation.
[9:32]When you're like, when I don't can't remember what you brought up, it was someone's anniversary.
[9:36]Or maybe that was something else the anniversary.
[9:38]Anyway, just like the deflection, right.
[9:40]And she's like, doesn't want you to worry.
[9:42]And you can tell so much that she's trying to like deal with her own stuff.
[9:46]But just like, she's like, stop worrying.
[9:48]Yeah.
[9:49]So is she still like that?
[9:50]Yeah.
[9:51]Yeah.
[9:52]Very much.
[9:53]Yeah.
[9:54]Yeah.
[9:55]She's more worried.
[9:56]I will tell you.
[9:57]She's more worried about.
[9:58]So my aunt read the book and she.
[10:00]was like, you know, you're gonna have to change
[10:02]where you hide all the money from that bathrobe
[10:04]because everyone who reads the book is gonna know
[10:06]and she's more worried about that.
[10:09]Oh my gosh.
[10:10]Anything she just wants everybody to relax
[10:13]and just enjoy life as much as we can
[10:16]in the time we have.
[10:17]And I think that's the best way to go about it right now,
[10:20]anyways.
[10:20]So great.
[10:21]Oh my gosh.
[10:23]To be honest, as a mother,
[10:25]and I just happened to have been to a funeral this morning
[10:27]for a family friend,
[10:29]it's okay, not that it's okay.
[10:31]He was older and had been sick for a while.
[10:33]It was, anyway, you know,
[10:35]it's not like a tragic early loss or whatever,
[10:37]but it's a loss and then the less,
[10:38]why am I even talking about this?
[10:39]I had some point, I didn't tell you that.
[10:42]Oh, I know, because I was saying they're thinking,
[10:45]you know, as I do,
[10:46]as most people with like anxiety slash depression,
[10:49]slash whatever, slash just anyone these days,
[10:52]you know, like, okay, so now I'm gonna picture
[10:54]my own funeral and like, what would my kids be doing
[10:57]and how could I make it easier for them
[10:59]and what would I want?
[11:00]And then I was thinking,
[11:01]I would probably be acting just like your mom, right?
[11:04]Like, I would want, when I talk to my kids,
[11:07]I would wanna be like, it's all good.
[11:08]We're not gonna talk about me.
[11:09]Like, let's just move on.
[11:11]Cause like, I don't wanna waste my time talking about
[11:13]like the stuff I worry about on my own.
[11:14]So I don't know.
[11:15]Maybe there's some of that on her side.
[11:16]Yeah.
[11:17]Anyway, sorry, that was so rambling.
[11:19]Oh, and that's fine.
[11:19]We actually lost my grandma there earlier this year.
[11:23]And so there's also that like,
[11:25]you know, when you lose somebody,
[11:26]that like time is precious really becomes your outlook
[11:30]for a little while, like comes that new perspective.
[11:33]And on top of what we're already dealing with,
[11:35]I think it's just amplifying this,
[11:37]like let's spend all this time together
[11:39]and do all these wonderful things.
[11:40]So, selfishly, I love all of the like outings
[11:44]we're taking as a family, like all of that
[11:46]because it's just beautiful time together.
[11:49]Wow.
[11:50]Wait, so how did you get into this?
[11:52]Like back up with your life
[11:54]and how did you end up writing your other book and all of that?
[11:57]Yeah.
[11:58]So when I was 23, I had a tumor in my thyroid,
[12:01]the size of like a little squash ball.
[12:04]So it was about my pinky finger and diameter and it stuck out.
[12:07]And it was this joke that my friend made to me
[12:11]where he was like, oh, it's because everything
[12:13]you always want to say, you swallow.
[12:15]And so like, ooh, you've got to yourself
[12:17]and all that writing you do, you should share it.
[12:20]And so he kind of talked me in signing up
[12:23]to this spoken word workshop, which I went to.
[12:26]And it was the first time I had shared my work with anyone.
[12:29]And that led to open mics, which led to SLAM,
[12:32]finding SLAM poetry and SLAMs in Toronto.
[12:35]And I started doing that, made it onto the Toronto SLAM team.
[12:38]And this is all within about a year and a half, two years,
[12:42]somewhere in there I had my surgery and removed the tumor.
[12:45]And then I just kind of dove into SLAM
[12:49]and started sharing my work.
[12:50]And then it was when explaining to my depression
[12:52]to my mother, we were at a SLAM tournament in Oakland,
[12:56]the nationals there, the national poetry SLAM.
[12:59]And we made it to the semi finals.
[13:01]And that was my poem for the semi finals.
[13:03]And it ended up being filmed, ended up being what it was,
[13:07]which was my fan and good deck.
[13:09]And then it made it onto the internet a couple months later.
[13:13]And I remember when they asked me, they were like,
[13:14]can we have the permission to do this?
[13:16]And I'm like, I don't really remember performing it.
[13:18]So if you think it was OK, sure.
[13:20]And that happened.
[13:21]And then that ended up going viral,
[13:23]which ended up in depression and other magic tricks,
[13:27]which has brought us to my lovey call me back,
[13:28]which is just a wild ride.
[13:30]Wow, yeah.
[13:31]That's amazing.
[13:32]And are you still doing the SLAMs and all of that?
[13:35]I'm not.
[13:35]I mean, COVID has made it possible in the first place.
[13:39]But I also didn't really enjoy competing.
[13:42]It felt weird for me to put things on the display
[13:45]and that, and then get a score.
[13:47]And it just wasn't really, yeah, it just wasn't my vibe.
[13:50]I wasn't particularly good at SLAM.
[13:53]My poems are always a little bit softer than what
[13:56]it needs to be.
[13:57]I think like a 10 out of 10 poem.
[14:00]I don't know how to explain that better.
[14:01]So yeah, I think for me, having the opportunity
[14:05]to perform and read and not be judged for it,
[14:08]or be judged, but in the regular way, we have led you.
[14:12]It's a little bit more comfortable for me.
[14:14]Yeah, not an actual score, you know.
[14:16]Just public opinion.
[14:17]Yeah.
[14:18]Love it.
[14:19]So how does it feel like I know there's just to be a poet
[14:23]in today's world, right?
[14:25]I mean, it's harder.
[14:25]And people talk about like will poetry collection sell?
[14:29]And you know, they're all these like barriers
[14:31]to poets and poetry and all of that.
[14:33]What do you like, how do you get past that?
[14:35]Do you think about it?
[14:36]Are you just like, whatever it's my art, whatever?
[14:40]I think the right answer to this question for me.
[14:44]And it's like, it's kind of silly,
[14:46]but I think we have to thank Ruthie Coward
[14:49]at the end of the day because she has just like,
[14:52]really made poetry kind of hot again
[14:55]and a little, or maybe not hot, but you know what I mean.
[14:59]Like accessible and approachable and easier to get into.
[15:02]And I think if it weren't for that little resurgence
[15:06]that she kind of helped, which not alone,
[15:08]obviously there's many poets in this world
[15:10]that we can thank modern poets for doing what they're doing.
[15:14]But I think that there's definitely,
[15:16]yeah, footsteps that have been like made
[15:19]that poetry is now something that I think people are not
[15:22]afraid to listen to you or maybe not afraid,
[15:24]but a little bit more interested than before,
[15:27]a little bit more open to it.
[15:28]So I'm grateful for that.
[15:31]To be honest with you, I'm grateful for that resurgence
[15:33]that we've had in the last couple of years.
[15:35]But also, I think it's just a matter of like
[15:39]being who you are until people figure it out.
[15:42]I think that's all you can do is just like,
[15:45]figure out who you are and then be yourself until people
[15:49]are like, oh, that's who you are cool or not cool.
[15:52]And they don't want to read your book.
[15:54]And that's fine too, you know what I mean?
[15:56]I think just coming to that level of acceptance,
[15:58]it's like what you have to do as a person
[16:00]and I've done that better with my art
[16:02]than I have as a person, if that makes sense.
[16:06]I wonder though if, you know,
[16:08]because I didn't used to read that much poetry,
[16:10]but for this podcast, I've really,
[16:12]I've read a whole bunch of poetry and I'm into it.
[16:15]And I think it's, it sort of dovetails
[16:18]with my attention span sometimes.
[16:20]Like the shorter bits and pieces are great to digest
[16:25]and like you can read the whole book in relatively no time
[16:27]and feel like you've actually submerged yourself
[16:30]in someone else's life the way that sometimes
[16:32]an entire memoir might take.
[16:33]This is like, it's like the cliff notes
[16:35]of a memoir sort of the like the express version
[16:39]of ingesting all that feeling.
[16:41]And I don't know, I just wonder with all the,
[16:43]all these young people today, you know,
[16:45]having intentions span of seven seconds.
[16:47]If maybe poetry is going to be back
[16:50]and have like a major resurgence among a younger generation
[16:53]when they realize that like you still get literature,
[16:56]but it's this quick.
[16:57]I don't know, I feel like it,
[16:59]maybe it's coming back in a big way.
[17:01]Yeah, I really love that about reading a poetry book
[17:04]is that you can put it down.
[17:06]Like there's spots that allow you to put it down
[17:08]like reflect on what you've read
[17:10]or you can just power through it
[17:12]and kind of have an afternoon with it.
[17:13]And it's very easy to kind of dissect in that way.
[17:18]Like where you're like, okay, I'm gonna stop here
[17:20]and it's not, I don't have to finish a chapter
[17:23]before I saw it or anything like that.
[17:25]So I really like poetry books for that.
[17:27]And they do feel like like the hot spot of a person,
[17:33]you know, like that like emotional hot center
[17:35]where you're like, ooh, I'm diving right into that.
[17:37]That's, yeah.
[17:39]It's like this whole, forget the small talk world
[17:42]that we're living in, right?
[17:43]Just like get right into it.
[17:44]Let's just get into it now.
[17:46]Thanks.
[17:48]So are you working on another collection now
[17:50]or what are you up to?
[17:51]I am, I am working on a third collection.
[17:53]I'm very excited about it to be honest.
[17:56]And I'm also working on a few other small projects
[18:00]around that.
[18:00]We'll see what happens.
[18:02]There are a little bit like in that test phase
[18:04]where you're like, let's just film some stuff
[18:07]and see what we can do if it comes out good or not.
[18:10]So we're playing around with that.
[18:12]But mostly I'm just focusing on writing
[18:14]collection number three.
[18:15]Yeah.
[18:16]Awesome.
[18:17]It's exciting.
[18:18]What advice would you have for aspiring authors?
[18:21]Ooh, my favorite advice,
[18:23]and I feel like I've been saying this a lot lately.
[18:25]So it must be something I need
[18:26]because, you know, it just keeps having me
[18:28]reviewed it, you know what I said?
[18:30]But I keep saying it, you have to want something
[18:32]more than you fear it.
[18:34]It's just like some great advice I've been given
[18:36]and I take it into my work so much.
[18:38]It's like, if you want to take that risk,
[18:40]you just take that risk.
[18:41]Like you can't be afraid to do it.
[18:43]If you want to write about that thing,
[18:44]you have to just write about that thing.
[18:46]Like there's no fear that can happen in there.
[18:49]And the fear or the fear has to be something
[18:51]that motivates you and not holds you back.
[18:54]And I think that's really what writing is about.
[18:57]It's like untangling all the fear inside you.
[18:59]So you can like express freely.
[19:03]I love it, been tangled.
[19:05]That's great.
[19:06]What do you like to read, by the way?
[19:08]I read a lot of poetry,
[19:09]but I've been diving back into fiction lately.
[19:12]So I'm into this novel ghosts by Dolly Alderton,
[19:16]which I'm, oh my gosh, I'm reading that.
[19:18]Get out, okay, I'm loving.
[19:20]No, I'm interviewing her tomorrow, I think.
[19:23]No, I haven't right here.
[19:24]Yeah, that's so fun.
[19:25]Oh, that's so funny.
[19:27]Yeah, are you loving it?
[19:28]I'm loving it, so fun.
[19:29]I'm loving it.
[19:30]She's so funny.
[19:31]I laughed out loud like five times in the first chapter
[19:33]or something.
[19:34]Yeah, so funny.
[19:35]So great.
[19:36]And I just, yeah, it feels really relatable
[19:37]as in early 30s, something.
[19:39]So I'm going to join it.
[19:41]That's, yeah, it's like the new bridge of Jones, I feel it.
[19:43]A little bit.
[19:44]Yeah, exactly.
[19:46]Yeah, I can totally see that.
[19:47]Yeah, she's so funny.
[19:48]Just the way she sees the world and, yeah, it's great.
[19:51]Getting into that.
[19:52]I think everybody's British has such a great sense.
[19:54]I had to say everything said in London,
[19:57]and I'm pretty sold on that.
[20:00]back to loan.
[20:01]We do, we do, we do, we do, we do, but yeah, I know it's me.
[20:05]So I've been really enjoying that as a dive back into fiction.
[20:09]Awesome, yeah, me too, funny, awesome.
[20:12]All right, well Serena, thank you.
[20:13]This has been so fun.
[20:15]Did I miss anything?
[20:16]Does there anything about your book or experience?
[20:19]I feel like I didn't tap into.
[20:20]I'm trying to think.
[20:21]I don't think so other than just like,
[20:24]my mom is the best and writing about her as a pleasure.
[20:28]And writing about everything is really a pleasure.
[20:30]But poetry, I want to thank you for this,
[20:32]because poetry, like you said, it can have that
[20:35]like little side eye to it at the entry point.
[20:38]And so I'm so glad that you're reading it
[20:40]and like enjoying it and having me on to talk about it
[20:43]because that just like makes me so happy inside.
[20:46]Oh, awesome.
[20:47]Well, it's my pleasure.
[20:48]And I really enjoyed reading it.
[20:50]And I love the colors.
[20:52]I mean, it's so beautiful, it's the book, right?
[20:55]It's beautiful.
[20:57]I love it.
[20:57]I love these colors.
[20:59]And this whole, yeah, it's just so cool.
[21:01]I actually think my body just arrived downstairs
[21:05]because there's a problem for me.
[21:06]So I'm so excited.
[21:08]Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[21:10]All right, awesome.
[21:12]Well, I wish you the best of luck.
[21:13]I hope your mom stays OK.
[21:15]And I'll be just sort of following along now
[21:17]with your career.
[21:18]I'm really excited.
[21:19]So much.
[21:20]OK.
[21:21]All right, take care.
[21:22]I'll wonderful day.
[21:23]You too, bye bye.
[21:25]Thanks for listening to this episode of Moms.
[21:27]Don't have time to read books.
[21:28]Don't forget to follow me on Instagram at zebi Owens
[21:31]and at Moms Don't have time to read books.
[21:33]Also sign up for my newsletter at zebiowens.com
[21:36]and sign up for my virtual book club
[21:38]and meet lots of authors on Zoom every other week.
[21:40]Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan at Textures Sound
[21:43]for the Sound Editing.
[21:44]And thank you to Morning Moon Productions
[21:46]for providing this fantastic intro and now trim music.