Tina Wells, HONEST JUNE
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[0:41]Tina Wells is the author of Honest June.
[0:44]Tina is a business strategist, advisor, and author recognized by Fast Company's 100 most creative people in business,
[0:50]essences 40 under 40 and more.
[0:52]For over two decades, she led Buzz, Marketing Group.
[0:55]In agency, she founded at age 16, with clients like Dell, the Oprah Winfrey Network,
[1:00]Kroger, Apple, P&G, Johnson & Johnson, and American Eagle that Tina connected with her network of 30,000 buzz spotters
[1:08]and 7,000 Moms spotters, all influential millennials and passionate and consumers.
[1:13]Since 2018, Tina has also been leading Elevation Tribe, a community and quarterly publication she created to help women launch grow and lead their businesses
[1:22]with a focus on women of color.
[1:23]Tina is also the author of 7 books, including the best-selling tween fiction series, Mackenzie Blue, and its spin-off series, The Z-Files.
[1:32]She recently released Honest June, which came out through Target and she'll talk all about that.
[1:37]She also authored the marketing handbook, Chasing Youth Culture, and Getting It Right in 2011.
[1:42]Tina's multimedia content ventures serving entrepreneurs, tweens, and cultureists with authentic representation falls under R-L-V-N-T media.
[1:51]Welcome, Tina. Thank you so much for coming on Moms. Don't have time to read books to discuss Honest June and all your other amazing books and activities and your awesome career and everything else.
[2:01]So, thank you for having me. I have been anticipating this for a while and I'm super lucky to join you on Honest June's unofficial pub date at Target today.
[2:11]So, it's also a really nice day to be having this time.
[2:14]Yes, it's so exciting. So, why unofficial? Because I saw on your Instagram how you were, it was, you know, today's the day and all of that. Tell me about it.
[2:24]Yeah, and I'm sure we'll get into this, but I struck some pretty unique deals in publishing and so I have one series that's exclusive to Target for a year called The Z-Files that will go wide next spring.
[2:35]And Honest June has a three-month exclusivity at Target as well. It's in the circular this weekend and so I've really just enjoyed this partnership. We kind of came up with this model and it's been working really well.
[2:48]And so super excited for for June to hit shelves today. So cool. Okay, wait, first talk about what Honest June is about and then I want to dive into this publishing arrangement you have because I'm fascinated.
[3:01]Yeah, so my publisher's Penguin Random House. I have described it as Ella enchanted meets dark diaries and I have this idea for June around the same time I did my first series Mackenzie Blue and obviously, The Z-Files is a spin off of Mackenzie Blue.
[3:18]And the idea was about a girl who couldn't tell a lie and how that created drama for her in middle school. Like we already know I'm a middle school middle grade writer.
[3:28]I love that time of life. I love the kind of natural drama that exists right and coming into your own and figuring out who you are. And so add to that this layer that a fairy godmother blesses you with the ability to not lie.
[3:42]I just thought it would be really funny. And then, you know, bringing June's world, you know, really to life and her friends and everything has been a lot of fun, but that's the premise June cannot tell a lie.
[3:53]She goes into a fun house at a community carnival and she plays a two truths in a lie game. She loses and she's blessed with the ability to only tell the truth, which is really difficult for her.
[4:05]You know, I would say on a deeper level, June suffers from anxiety. She doesn't quite know what that means yet. You know, I'm sure you know over the last year so many children are dealing with anxiety bright weather pandemic related or otherwise.
[4:18]And so I really wanted to write about a girl who is going through her own trial. So imagine that she's got anxiety, but also can't lie. So she can't protect people that she loves and it does into what's a good lie versus a bad lie.
[4:32]And with a lot of humor. So it's definitely a fun read. It reminded me of heavy red clementine the Sarah penny packer series.
[4:39]It has a similar voice in that it's like clever and funny and really likable and like there's I don't know. It just has a similar tone. Anyway, those are some of my favorite that I read to my kid like years ago. So I don't know. You should check it out.
[4:55]I will. That's great company. So thank you. Yeah. And I totally related honestly to June honestly haha didn't because because of her sort of people pleasing inclinations and wanting to just like make everybody happy all the time.
[5:11]And then she's robbed of the way to do it. It's actually like almost like a horror book in a way.
[5:17]I know it's like a fairy godmother, but actually it's like, you know, as someone who has like tremendous anxiety myself, which I didn't even realize was a thing I thought like everybody had anxiety. But anyway, I mean, and actually to be honest so many people do have anxiety right now it's sort of like the baseline for everyone.
[5:32]But that like that idea that you're robbed of some, you know, the thing that smoothes out the feathers or if you will of every I don't know that's not that expression, but just not to have that ability seems daunting.
[5:46]No way.
[5:47]Totally is. And I can relate, you know, I'm the oldest of six children. My parents definitely had great expectations for all of us. And so imagine like for me growing up mom and dad, I was always the one that they asked did so and so do this thing. You have to tell us right.
[6:02]And so even being in that position. I'm like, I'm so glad that I could figure out how to finagle that and not just have to like all I mean, although I'm told I have no poker face. So I always gave things away anyway.
[6:14]Yeah, I mean, I think that just the idea that we're robbed of that thing that helps us kind of maneuver situations is what's intriguing about now.
[6:23]I feel like I'm saying I lie all the time, which is not true at all. I'm not I don't know like now I'm like, we that's not representative either.
[6:32]But that's the conversation that I don't actually think June is lying all right. Exactly. You know, I think she is figuring out how to figure things out at the age when we really have to start figuring things out right.
[6:43]And so there's, you know, her dad wants her to go to Howard University. June like has no interest and she doesn't know how to say I'm 12.
[6:51]I don't know where I want to go to college, but she's got that expectation, right. And, you know, he wants her to do sports. She really wants to do art.
[6:59]We just finished the second book, which is called the show must go on and it's about her starring in the wits. So which was a musical I loved growing up.
[7:08]But in that book we really play out how she has to hide that from her dad. And so it's just a lot of you know,
[7:14]I think about with your kids like are there things that they like to do that they wanted to do that maybe they couldn't do at a certain stage like I mean I see it with my niece, you know, she is really artsy.
[7:24]She's loved to cook ever since like I let her destroy my kitchen at like two, three years old.
[7:29]And already we're like Harvard, Princeton Yale and she's like maybe cooking school in Paris and my sister and I are like shoot me now, you know, but it's like, I see a burst with that now it's like no, we have an idea of where you need to go.
[7:44]And she is a very artsy kid who is like, no, I think I'm just going to do this. So, you know, I think June is exploring all those things.
[7:51]So tell me more about your childhood as the oldest of six kids and where you grew up and like what how that makes you see the world now.
[8:00]I mean that's a lot of responsibility for me young age. It's like you almost don't even get to have your own childhood sort of.
[8:07]But I did although I agree Chris Rock has this joke where he says in a big family like the oldest two just raise all the other kids and my parents often joke that there were mom dad and Tina and then the kids and that's so not true.
[8:22]I'm from Lancaster, Pennsylvania. So if you know anything about Lancaster, my parents actually lived there now they went, they moved back about seven years ago.
[8:31]And it's just a great place to be from. It is also really trippy for me to go home. Like I may go see them today and it's like,
[8:39]some buggies parked at Target is trippy. I like I agree.
[8:43]It's where I'm from and I often thought it's funny like my early career was as a trend spotter and I'm a trend spotter from Lancaster, Pennsylvania.
[8:52]We grew up, you know, really, really happy. My dad spent his career both as a pastor and at Lockheed Martin and so we moved to New Jersey when I was pretty young.
[9:04]Like I was like five or six, although four out of six of us were born in Lancaster. And then so settled in South Jersey and grew up in suburban New Jersey.
[9:13]And it was just, it was really great. You know, my parents, my mom is one of 14. So my mom has eight older brothers and five sisters. My dad's an only child and so we're
[9:23]like, okay, dad, you really wanted a big family. And so grew up with Thanksgiving, literally Thanksgiving is, you know, 80 people.
[9:31]And, you know, I thought everybody had big Thanksgiving's like that. And so, you know, grew up with a lot of cousins and just really, I would say focused on family and my parents were really like they loved having their big family.
[9:44]And so like we were talking about what would COVID have been like if we were kids and at home and you know, how would my parents have adjusted and think for my dad not having any siblings like there's just such a dedication to our family.
[9:58]I also relate.
[10:00]to the way June sees her parents with the great expectations.
[10:03]Like, my mom has the saying,
[10:04]which said, I never asked my kids,
[10:06]are you going to college?
[10:07]I said, where are you going to college?
[10:09]You know, and she's like, that's why six of my kids
[10:11]went to college, all six graduated from college.
[10:14]And so I would definitely say we were raised
[10:16]with that culture of great expectations,
[10:18]but my parents were really different.
[10:20]And I would say, you know, if I brought home,
[10:22]I'd say a 95%, my dad would say that's great.
[10:26]But if the best you could do is a 70,
[10:29]I love you anyway.
[10:30]My mom would say, well, was that the best you could do?
[10:34]Like, why didn't you get 100?
[10:35]You know, so I had these like two competing kind of schools
[10:39]of thought, which were really great for all of us.
[10:41]I think we benefited from my mom's push and drive.
[10:44]When I look at my own push and drive towards,
[10:46]this has to be just right, that definitely comes from my mom.
[10:50]But then there's also that like, soft pillow landing of like,
[10:53]if this book doesn't hit, if this thing doesn't go,
[10:55]it's okay, mom and dad still love you, right?
[10:57]Or my mom would always joke like, daddy loves you anyway, right?
[11:00]So I kind of had that balance for sure.
[11:03]And then, you know, the shenanigans of five younger siblings
[11:05]was, you know, we were an entertaining group for sure.
[11:10]Wow.
[11:11]So then how did you get into trans fighting your whole buzz
[11:15]framework?
[11:15]I mean, how did that whole thing come about
[11:17]and explain it a little more?
[11:18]Yeah.
[11:19]So I knew early on that I wanted to be a fashion writer.
[11:22]That was my dream job.
[11:24]And I was 15 and I answered and added 17 magazine for this newspaper
[11:29]for girls called the New Girl Times was hiring.
[11:32]And I asked my mom, I had a brother word processor.
[11:36]And so I said, if I type up a sample, can you fax this from work?
[11:40]And she did.
[11:41]And I got a call from the editor Miriam Hipsch and she said,
[11:45]so I want to hire you as a product review editor.
[11:46]And I'm like, awesome, I didn't know what that meant.
[11:48]And so obviously I figured out I have to find products to review.
[11:52]And when I started doing that and I would send the clips of the review products
[11:57]back to companies, they always said the same thing.
[11:59]If I send you more stuff, will you keep telling me what you think?
[12:02]And so at 15, I was like, this is a dream gig, right?
[12:06]Like I am a total 1990s teenager who wants everything.
[12:10]And my parents are not buying me all the things, right?
[12:13]We were very much Christmas, birthday, you know, you get the things that you want.
[12:18]And so I thought I'd just devise the best way to get what I wanted.
[12:22]And I didn't know I could make money until my freshman year of college,
[12:25]when someone called me, I had done a free survey for them.
[12:28]And it's seven, it tells you something really important.
[12:31]You have a business, it's called market research, what you and your friends,
[12:34]and by this time my friends were helping me.
[12:37]So what you and your friends did is 10 times better than research I paid $25,000 for.
[12:42]You have this business, that's all I'm going to say, go figure it out.
[12:45]As luck would have it, I was taking intro to business with the head of the
[12:49]department at Hood College, right?
[12:51]And I went to see her during office hours and said, I've been doing this thing.
[12:55]And she kind of stared at me for a long time.
[12:58]Literally like when Dr. Joseph credits, she was like, I want you to take an
[13:03]independent study with me next semester and we're going to figure out how to
[13:05]make this a business.
[13:06]And we did and she was so tough and just would destroy my business plans.
[13:11]And this around the time we were doing this is like 1998, it was the first dot
[13:15]convable.
[13:16]And so everybody was trying to say to me, just go build this dot
[13:21]com company and she said, no, you need to build a really strong business.
[13:24]And I want you to have a book some more to be like, don't just focus online.
[13:28]And to her credit, that model that we built all those years ago is really
[13:33]what sustained my agency for almost 25 years.
[13:35]And so it was hard, it was really hard work, but I was really lucky to get to do
[13:40]that as an undergrad to have amazing professors to go talk to about statistics.
[13:45]And then when I was 20, so this would be my junior year of college.
[13:49]I was studying away in Chicago and that was around the time that Cosmo girl
[13:53]had launched.
[13:54]And so I was in, I want to say one of the first three issues.
[13:57]I'm sure you know, genius, Michelle Lee, who went on to be
[14:00]Editor in Chief of the Law.
[14:01]And now she's at Netflix and and showcat who was the Editor in Chief of 17.
[14:06]This was kind of their first place and they wrote about me.
[14:09]And they wrote two sentences that changed my life.
[14:12]just about a cool job alert.
[14:13]I had 15,000 applications from teenagers all over the world who wanted to be bus
[14:18]fathers. They were calling Cosmo girl.
[14:20]I mean, they were getting mad at me like a lot of get back to these people.
[14:24]Moms are calling us.
[14:25]And so I thought, what do I do with all these people?
[14:28]I decided to do teen research and to do different kinds of research.
[14:32]So one of my first studies was about music pirating.
[14:35]You know, when the industry was saying, I mean, I can't believe there was a time
[14:39]when the industry was saying, this isn't going to be a problem.
[14:41]You know, I got to present it like the biggest conference in music.
[14:45]And I'm this college student who's like, well, I did a survey.
[14:48]And of the 500 people I talked to, 99% of them have illegally downloaded music in the
[14:53]last 30 days and they don't intend to stop.
[14:55]And like everybody ignored me, but this woman who had been running research for Sony BMG.
[15:00]And so while I was like about to graduate from college, I ended up getting a pretty big contract
[15:06]to do research for the likes of, you know, all the artists that are huge legends.
[15:11]I was working with their label.
[15:12]So whether it was for any spheres or backstreet boys in sync, Destiny's child, Beyonce,
[15:17]John Legend, John Mayer and doing a lot of research.
[15:20]And so, you know, it was a great time, you know, really awesome time in my career.
[15:26]But I still remember my senior year talking to my advisor and saying, I've just seen as this girl
[15:31]who's doing this fun thing.
[15:32]I don't know if I can make a career with this and maybe I'll go to law school.
[15:36]And we decided I would give it a year and see what happened.
[15:39]And obviously 20 plus years later, it turned out okay.
[15:43]But I never really at that point thought, I'm doing this thing.
[15:46]And this is a career.
[15:47]And I'm, you know, really creating a new genre of influence or not.
[15:52]I never thought about that.
[15:53]I was just like a kid from suburban New Jersey who wanted to write for a magazine, you know,
[15:58]but that story, that is so cool.
[16:01]I actually also, when I was 14 wrote an article and my mother was like, you have to send
[16:05]this to 17 magazine.
[16:07]And I didn't write an article.
[16:08]I wrote like from my heart about like how upset I was and I had gained weight.
[16:11]And I like, it was like a diary entry, but I like printed it in the next room or something.
[16:15]And she found it and was like, you have to send this in.
[16:17]And I was like, why did you read my stuff?
[16:19]Anyway, I sent it in and they bought it, but they paid me.
[16:22]They didn't pay you for your work.
[16:24]Like, I got $150.
[16:26]I thought that was amazing.
[16:28]I like framed my check.
[16:29]I mean, I cashed it, but you know, like I eat it.
[16:31]But I guess I'm made a copy or something because I still have it anyway.
[16:34]It changed my life.
[16:36]I was like, this is amazing.
[16:37]I love magazines.
[16:38]I was like obsessed with girl magazines.
[16:40]I think we were in college at the same time.
[16:42]I love market research.
[16:44]I went on and did some of that in like with ad agencies and brand planning.
[16:47]Anyway, I have like, I just like love your story.
[16:51]So cool.
[16:52]So awesome.
[16:54]Thank you.
[16:57]Okay.
[16:57]So after you did all your research, when did you decide you wanted to start writing middle grade?
[17:03]So that's funny.
[17:04]I never decided that I was doing marketing for a publisher who had just bought a book from
[17:10]Alloy.
[17:11]And so if you remember, I remember Alloy totally, yeah.
[17:14]They were our competitor.
[17:16]There were kind of three of us in this group, Alloy, Mr. Hughes, who became MRI and
[17:21]Bus Marketing Group, my company.
[17:22]And so we've been hired to do the marketing.
[17:25]And I was talking, you know, working with editors every day.
[17:28]And they said, you really, you know, Alloy's doing this thing.
[17:31]They're like marketers who figured out this thing.
[17:33]Like you should do this thing.
[17:34]And I'm like, I don't have time to do that.
[17:36]Like no time.
[17:37]And I was actually doing research for a huge CPG company, a consumer package goods,
[17:42]around this new consumer that was emerging called tween.
[17:46]And during a focus group, a mom came up to me and she said,
[17:49]you seem to know about these things.
[17:51]What should I do?
[17:52]My daughter is 10 and she's reading Gossip Girl.
[17:55]I'm happy that she's reading.
[17:56]I don't think it's appropriate.
[17:58]What should I do?
[17:58]And it was that moment that I thought, okay, now is a marketer.
[18:03]What can I do about this?
[18:05]How could I, you know, I loved Gossip Girl, but I was like a 20-something-year-old woman, right?
[18:09]I couldn't imagine looking at that at 10, 11 years old and thinking that's how I should act in
[18:14]school, right?
[18:15]We know it's traumatization, but at that middle grade stage, we're emulating what we see,
[18:20]we're aspiring to those things, right?
[18:22]And so I started working on McKenzie Blue,
[18:25]sent it to a friend who was editor in chief of 17 at the time.
[18:28]My story keeps going back to 17, right?
[18:30]And all my friends were like, this is really good.
[18:33]You actually should take that publisher up on their offer and think about a series.
[18:37]And what I didn't say was I said to the editor I've been working with,
[18:40]who are the top four agents that you buy from?
[18:43]And got a list and ended up working with Kate Lee, who was just an incredible agent.
[18:49]She was just awesome.
[18:50]And we had an offer on the table when we went, got turned down from my publisher from Harper.
[18:57]And I designed a proposal that looked like a 7th grade girl's composition,
[19:02]but literally down to like that marble and I love it.
[19:05]It was incredible.
[19:07]And the publisher saw it and picked it up and was like thumbing through it.
[19:11]And she said, what is this?
[19:12]And they're like, it's this book, McKenzie Blue.
[19:14]It's got too much going on.
[19:15]We turned it down.
[19:16]And she said, I like it.
[19:18]Like get her in here and have her explain it.
[19:20]And so I went in with Kate.
[19:22]We met with 16 people.
[19:24]And I kind of, it was almost like defending a thesis.
[19:27]Like why do you think tween girls do all these things?
[19:29]It's like, well, I just know.
[19:31]Like I do the research.
[19:32]So I know that this is what they're doing.
[19:34]And that day we had an offer and five books.
[19:37]And it was incredible.
[19:38]And Harper was an incredible home for McKenzie.
[19:42]And it sold really well.
[19:43]And it was just a joy.
[19:45]And then I went back to marketing, right?
[19:47]And so it wasn't until Audible ended up buying out the series for me years later.
[19:53]You know, it's a whole other conversation around my incredible attorney.
[19:57]And the deals he did for me in my 20s that...
[20:00]allow me to retain all my IP and allow me to make really great
[20:04]deals around that IP and how I see it come to life.
[20:06]And so I was fortunate to be able to sell my own audio
[20:09]rights and decide that deal.
[20:11]And with Audible, I'd started talking with Target
[20:14]just about maybe we could do something together.
[20:16]And I thought, we thought, let's relaunch McKenzie Blue
[20:20]and then realize that a lot had changed.
[20:22]And so I said, well, I was writing a TV pilot
[20:26]called the Z-Files, maybe we make this the series.
[20:29]And that's how Z came back to life.
[20:32]And then they also helped me get to Penguin Random House
[20:35]and helped me sell Honest June, which has just been a dream.
[20:40]So during the pandemic, I was just writing
[20:42]and writing a bunch of new concepts.
[20:45]And so it's just been awesome.
[20:47]So it was Honest June a series too.
[20:49]Honest June is a series.
[20:50]Yeah, it's three books thus far.
[20:52]And then there was a new series that we have yet
[20:55]to announce that's coming to Target next summer
[20:57]called the Stitch Click.
[20:59]And the tagline there is a tight-knit group of friends
[21:01]to about five girls who are incredibly different.
[21:04]Meet in a fashion class and become really great friends.
[21:09]But they are from five really different family structures,
[21:12]life pass, and they end up becoming the best of friends.
[21:15]And so just starting to work on that one,
[21:18]spend a bit of the summer starting to frame that up.
[21:20]But it couldn't be more excited to have
[21:23]these partnerships with Target
[21:24]and get to bring these books to life.
[21:26]But why partner only with Target?
[21:28]Why aren't you doing a mass distribution for the books?
[21:32]Yeah, it's so, I think the first thing is
[21:35]to be clear, Target really took the risk on me.
[21:38]I think we wanted to go more traditional.
[21:41]And this is a theme throughout my career.
[21:43]And I will be honest, it's something that deeply annoys me
[21:47]and my best friends are like, but you do this.
[21:49]It's fine.
[21:50]When it's like, I just want to do things
[21:52]the way they've been done.
[21:53]And then I get kind of to an obstacle.
[21:56]And it's like, well, you can't do that.
[21:57]You've got to create a new way.
[21:58]And so I would say we wanted to do things
[22:01]in a more traditional way.
[22:02]And that option wasn't there.
[22:04]And then COVID presented a really unique opportunity
[22:07]to launch a book and a unique way.
[22:09]And we had to move fast.
[22:10]And so I turned in the first Z-Files book.
[22:15]I want to say I got the green light in April of 2020.
[22:18]The book was turned in at the end of June.
[22:21]And the team at West Margin, they just moved heaven and earth
[22:24]to get that book in stores by December 1st.
[22:27]And for any of you in the business to within six months
[22:31]have a book mastered in stores, in shelves,
[22:35]and ready for holidays, an incredible feat.
[22:37]And they were just an awesome partner.
[22:38]And we're now, I just actually got my fourth book,
[22:42]this book is a little chill.
[22:44]Two months cut a very Malibu vacay.
[22:46]And they just sent me my copy.
[22:48]And the way we get to partner, it's incredibly unique.
[22:52]I'm really, really fortunate.
[22:53]And so to target credit, there is a great article
[22:57]about what they're doing, I think, in this month's
[22:59]fast company.
[23:00]And as a person who gets to partner with them,
[23:02]I really echo what a lot of their other entrepreneurs
[23:05]and partners have said about the ingenuity there,
[23:10]the thinking, how they partner with entrepreneurs,
[23:13]how they allow us to protect our intellectual property
[23:17]and bring the best of what we do to the table
[23:20]and really get the best of what they do.
[23:22]And getting a book to market is hard.
[23:26]What we had to do for Honest June
[23:28]to even get her in stores now, that was hard.
[23:31]Obviously, Honest June, we would have liked June,
[23:34]and it just wasn't possible in that system.
[23:38]And so Target, they were clear.
[23:41]Like we want to do this with you.
[23:43]I think it's the first time they've worked with a middle grade
[23:45]author to do something exclusive.
[23:47]And the books do go wide after that.
[23:49]But the exclusivity also allows me advertising partnerships
[23:53]that didn't exist.
[23:54]Mackenzie was never carried in Target.
[23:56]So it's a huge feat now that I've got the series
[23:59]that we get multiple circular,
[24:01]inclusions every year.
[24:04]We've come up with a really unique way.
[24:06]And by next spring, they will be wherever books are sold.
[24:08]And so it's just been a really awesome partnership.
[24:11]And I think that it's the first of many to come.
[24:14]I think that what you're doing, creating imprints,
[24:17]like we're just seeing different voices come into publishing
[24:21]and create new hybrids that need to exist, right?
[24:24]And we see that what Target is doing in retail,
[24:28]and whether it's pioneering partnering with designers
[24:31]to enhance their brands.
[24:32]I think what we're realizing is it's not an either or strategy.
[24:36]It's a both and.
[24:38]And so having this bit of exclusivity
[24:40]means that June is going to get more attention
[24:43]than maybe she would have gotten if she had just gone completely
[24:46]in the mainstream or we've got time to set up
[24:48]and build a narrative, have presence this weekend,
[24:52]in a circular that reaches 40 million households.
[24:54]So it's amazing, it's amazing opportunity.
[24:58]And for that opportunity, they like exclusivity.
[25:02]And I'm willing to give that knowing
[25:04]I'm getting that kind of access.
[25:06]And also as an author, really getting to build a brand there.
[25:10]Now, as of today, I have two different series there with them.
[25:13]And so, and also launching product for holiday
[25:16]for the Z-Files.
[25:17]It came up with something called a bliss box.
[25:19]And again, back to the theme of young people dealing
[25:21]with anxiety, I created this really cool box for girls
[25:25]and it's limited edition only in stores for holiday.
[25:28]And so it's just been fun to really work with a retailer
[25:32]and how we really create a unique experience for guests.
[25:35]And I love that because when you go everywhere,
[25:38]you don't always get the opportunity to say,
[25:40]I'd like this to show up this way.
[25:42]The Z-Files has a custom corget
[25:45]where it's designed just for target shelves
[25:47]that point the guests to the books.
[25:50]And so a lot of those marketing pieces
[25:52]we were able to do probably wouldn't have existed
[25:55]if we didn't have this unique partnership.
[25:57]Wow.
[25:58]I have to put you in touch with
[26:00]so many Jeannique Celia.
[26:01]I don't know if you know her.
[26:02]Her pen name is Jane Allen.
[26:03]And actually her book came out today
[26:05]to it's called Black Girls Must I Exhausted.
[26:07]And she's actually part of my executive team at Zippy Bex.
[26:11]But she, her book is the Target Diverse Book Club pick
[26:15]for October.
[26:16]Anyway, you two should meet and talk
[26:18]and you should like help our business.
[26:20]I would love to do it.
[26:21]And also she's got the like best title ever.
[26:25]I saw that in one of your posts.
[26:26]I'm like, my God, the title's incredible.
[26:29]But her book is great.
[26:30]I literally met her because she came on my podcast
[26:32]for her book.
[26:33]And I was like, you have to,
[26:35]we have to do this together like you're amazing.
[26:37]And she was in the music.
[26:38]And anyway, you have to talk to her.
[26:39]Oh my gosh, we're running out of time.
[26:40]And I have like 8,000 questions to ask you.
[26:42]We'll have to continue this some other way.
[26:44]But one question I have with all of your research
[26:46]and then I wanna hear your advice to aspiring authors
[26:49]is I've noticed, and I'm sure you've noticed
[26:52]that kids don't like to read the way they used to, right?
[26:55]Everybody is on devices.
[26:56]It is so hard.
[26:57]I have twin 14 year olds.
[26:58]I have an eight year old and six year old.
[26:59]Like nobody really loves to read.
[27:01]Like they'll buy the books.
[27:02]They'll like get them from the library
[27:04]and then they get distracted.
[27:05]So like what are we gonna do?
[27:07]I have this like underlying panic
[27:09]that all this research and publishing
[27:11]and shaking things up and like meanwhile,
[27:13]like everyone who's young doesn't like to read.
[27:15]Or like it's not a thing with them the way it was.
[27:18]Like we all like, what did, you know,
[27:20]I spent hours reading, but I had no choice.
[27:23]What was I gonna do?
[27:23]Watch the golden girls?
[27:24]You know, like so.
[27:25]Anyway, what do you think?
[27:26]So first I will say in my days as a researcher,
[27:30]how often did we hear things like print his dead?
[27:33]This is dead and we go with that.
[27:35]And then when we dig deeper,
[27:36]what we realized was like no bad print is
[27:39]and maybe it should be, right?
[27:40]Like look at the success of something
[27:42]like Magnolia Journal, right?
[27:44]So we know that that's not the case.
[27:45]We thought for years TV was dead.
[27:48]Do you imagine saying that now we'd laugh?
[27:49]Like there are more A-listers making incredible TV
[27:53]and we saw something called streaming come in and shake that up.
[27:56]I'll tell you for me personally,
[27:58]still to this day 90% of all of my sales
[28:01]are the actual physical book.
[28:03]And so I know that there's something for the girl
[28:07]of actually owning this, right?
[28:10]So I put a lot of attention when I can,
[28:12]when I'm given permission to into how my books look.
[28:15]I want them to be collectible and I want that,
[28:18]you know, girls to love it.
[28:19]Something that was so incredible that happened
[28:21]with McKenzie was librarian started reaching out to me
[28:24]and told me your books are great for at-risk readers.
[28:27]I don't write to write award-winning books.
[28:30]I write to get kids to read.
[28:32]I write to get kids who are at-risk for reading to read.
[28:36]And as a marketer, I know how to dangle exactly
[28:39]what you need to get you into a book.
[28:41]And I just recently had a friend who I sent her,
[28:44]her the book, she's like, you're not gonna believe this.
[28:46]My daughter and her best friend,
[28:47]they read the book in a day.
[28:48]And I said, I do believe it because there's a way
[28:50]that I write that just wants to get kids to engage
[28:54]and hopefully get them onto the next book
[28:56]and onto the next series.
[28:57]But I think that's us using our skills, right?
[29:00]And that's why like what you're doing is so exciting
[29:02]because when you take those of us who were in that business,
[29:04]we understood research and advertising.
[29:06]And we want people to read.
[29:09]I think that's a really powerful combination.
[29:11]And so I'm really always laser focused
[29:13]on what is going to get that reader attached to this book,
[29:17]get her into this book or him into this book,
[29:19]engage and get them into the next one.
[29:21]That's why series is important.
[29:23]How I craft my characters, you know.
[29:25]The Z-Files is about a girl who lives
[29:27]and I heard the first pushback was like,
[29:29]oh, there are rich kids who go to a private school,
[29:32]a boarding school.
[29:33]No, it's about a life stage where kids are trying
[29:36]to find a way to detach from parents.
[29:38]And the thing that's so interesting is boarding school, right?
[29:41]And so we can create this world for Z who is a biracial girl
[29:46]going through boarding school and also create these experiences
[29:49]for this very diverse cast.
[29:51]And, you know, I just finished the fifth book
[29:53]where now there's a princess who's arriving like,
[29:55]yes, I guess that I'm sprinkling in all the things.
[29:59]Bye.
[30:00]To me, those are the things that at this critical age are getting girls to read because just like you, I was reading teen magazine and YM and those were the things, you know, my mom subscribed me to those magazines, but that's what started, you know, me on the path of being a baracious reader.
[30:15]I would read a book every day of the summer and I was reading sweet valley twins and sweet valley high and I love that my parents let me read whatever I wanted to read.
[30:23]And obviously, as I grew up, you know, I started to read more and even now, I'm reading a book a week still, you know, I just really love reading and it's not, you know, sometimes it's incredible and other times it's just like whatever, like something that keeps me interested.
[30:40]I think that we have to really think about where kids are at and I think for those of us who started our careers as marketers, I always start with my reader, I always start with where's my reader at and his or her life right now.
[30:55]And what can I say to them and how do I entertain them, you know, that's what I really put his my intention is to entertain and obviously with an overarching intention of representation, you know, I really want girls who look like me to see themselves on covers of books and I think that that's great for all girls.
[31:14]I think all girls want to see that they want that diversity of choice and they want to read about diverse groups and and so that's really kind of what guides me as a writer.
[31:24]Well, I love it. Are you in New York, by the way, is that where you are. I live in South Jersey and I work in New York two or three days, you know, a week pre pandemic and I miss my New York life.
[31:36]At some point we have to hang out or something.
[31:38]So what is your advice for aspiring authors.
[31:42]So I will say I don't have a traditional path and I think that that's okay, you know, I think that if you have a story really focused on your audience.
[31:51]I think when whenever I had the pleasure of working engaging with my publishing companies.
[31:56]What's been most critical is my understanding of who I'm talking to right you don't want to put that work on you know your publisher figure out now who's the audience going to be really as clear as you can about who you're writing for.
[32:09]Then kind of cracked your own process, you know, for me it was really hard during the pandemic not to travel because I get so much inspiration for writing from traveling, you know that's really being in airports is really inspirational for me just to see families interacting to see people.
[32:24]They aren't really thinking about being observed and you get to observe them. So I think I'm on a practice of what inspires you.
[32:30]And then just really focus on the originality of what's your voice and getting you know I understand what my voice is I'm a middle grade writer.
[32:38]I'm probably never outside of maybe a few business books going to write anything that's not middle grade because I get her and it would take too much energy for me to get YA.
[32:48]YA is its own beast right like I can't even begin to try to understand why a or a younger reader that 7 to 12 7 to 14 year old primarily girl reader is who I write for.
[32:59]And so I think it's same thing in marketing right the idea that this is for everybody that doesn't work like it's you know it never worked in marketing you really have to say these are my core people and then expand from there and obviously we've seen that happen multiple times where you build a product or brand for a core consumer.
[33:15]And then from there the brand grows but be really focused and I think sometimes we think it's not okay to to really focus on a smaller demographic that we have to go wide but it's okay to say.
[33:27]I'm going to focus for me my next series is really focused on a DIY girl with a real focus on on diversity and telling this diverse story but you're not into fashion I don't know maybe the stitch click isn't the first book you're going to pick up.
[33:40]but I'm okay with that because I know if I get my core group then they're going to talk about it and then they're going to help to expand.
[33:47]I love it and I'm ordering every single book of you for all of my kids like can I cannot wait and this is amazing.
[33:54]All right, thank you so much thanks for coming on mom so time to read books thanks congratulations on honest June and all of the stuff you're doing and I just love your mindset and your how your brain works I just it's so cool so.
[34:08]welcome.
[34:10]All right well best of luck and thank you so much to be all right take care bye bye.
[34:19]Thanks for listening to this episode of mom's don't have time to read books don't forget to follow me on Instagram at zibi Owens and at mom's don't have time to read books.
[34:28]Also sign up for my newsletter at zibi Owens dot com and sign up for my virtual book club and meet lots of authors on zoom every other week.
[34:35]Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan back texture sound for the sound editing and thank you to morning moon productions for providing this fantastic intro and out trim music.