Shelli R. Johannes, SHINE LIKE A UNICORN
[0:01]Hi, I'm Sivi Owens, and you're listening to the award-winning podcast,
[0:05]Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books.
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[0:32]And now, back to our daily author interview site and a quick hello from some of my kids.
[0:36]Hi, hi, hello.
[0:38]Enjoy the show.
[0:41]Shelley Johannes is the author of Shine Like Unicorn.
[0:44]She is the co-author of nine books in the Love Science picture book series,
[0:47]including CC Love Science with Kimberly Derting.
[0:50]She's the author of Theos Thesaurus and her newest picture book, Shine Like Unicorn.
[0:55]Shelley has also written teen novels under S.R. Johannes, including the Nature of Grace series,
[1:01]and the critically acclaimed untraceable, rewired and on the bright side.
[1:04]Shelley lives in Atlanta with her own pack of animals.
[1:07]A British has been two kids, one bird, one fish, and two crazy golden doodles who hate vegetables.
[1:12]Welcome, Shelley.
[1:13]Thanks so much for coming on Moms.
[1:14]Don't have time to read books to discuss.
[1:16]Shine Like Unicorn and also Thesaurus, the dinosaur who loved big words.
[1:21]Yes, thank you for having me.
[1:23]But there are a lot of big words in the Unicorn book, also.
[1:26]That is true.
[1:26]The unicorns do like big words.
[1:29]And also what was flossum?
[1:31]I think that was my favorite word.
[1:32]You know, that I saw that a long time ago, my daughter bought a shirt that said flossum.
[1:38]That some little cute boutique store in like a mountain town.
[1:43]And I was like, that's brilliant, you know?
[1:45]So I'm sure people have said it before, but that was where I heard it.
[1:49]Well, I hadn't heard it.
[1:50]And there was another word.
[1:51]Hold on.
[1:52]I have to find it.
[1:53]And then I'll ask you to like.
[1:54]I hope it's not the one I can't pronounce.
[1:55]So wait, hold on.
[1:56]It was it was right above a gobsmacked.
[1:58]Okay.
[1:59]Well, I'll find it later.
[2:00]Anyway, why don't you tell everybody what Shine Like Unicorn is really about and what
[2:04]inspired you to write it.
[2:05]I know you've written so many other books and you've mastered the whole C.C. love science,
[2:10]Libby Love Science, genre.
[2:12]You've like cornered the market.
[2:13]So why this book?
[2:14]Why this book after and and why now?
[2:17]Yeah, it's world domination.
[2:18]World domination.
[2:20]As you well know, Shine Like Unicorn came about.
[2:26]It's a book that really is about celebrating yourself and celebrating standing out, trying
[2:31]to stand out in the crowd, not trying to hide and trying to just show off your best features.
[2:36]And this came about because my kids are always struggling to, you know, stand out or
[2:42]like be with everybody wants them to be, you know, my daughter's a senior, my son's
[2:46]depression.
[2:47]And I always say when they go to school, you know, you know, do you like be brave, be bold,
[2:52]be you is kind of what I say whenever they leave the house.
[2:55]But my son had some bullying going on a few years ago and I keep saying I'm different
[3:00]than everyone else and they're picking on me and I used to always say be a unicorn and
[3:05]a herd of horses.
[3:06]Like you don't want to be a horse.
[3:08]If someone walks up and sees a unicorn and a group of horses, they're going to go for
[3:12]the unicorn.
[3:13]So you just don't know that yet.
[3:15]So that was kind of where it started was just that bullying and trying to help him see
[3:20]that the people who stand out, you know, are going to possibly sometimes get picked
[3:25]on.
[3:26]And that's okay because they're different.
[3:28]So this was just a funny way of really a unicorn coming out saying, you know what?
[3:33]Like I stand out all the time and here are the steps that you have to do to stand out
[3:37]and be yourself and be you and don't hide yourself, like be out there.
[3:41]So that was kind of where it came from.
[3:42]I love that.
[3:43]That was so cool.
[3:45]Granddilla Quinn is the word, by the way.
[3:46]I finally found it.
[3:47]That was the one I have a hard time for now.
[3:49]Granddilla Quinn.
[3:50]I love that.
[3:51]Is that actually a word?
[3:52]Yeah.
[3:53]Oh my gosh.
[3:54]Okay.
[3:55]Sorry.
[3:56]Well, not that that was even important, but I'm glad we sort of closed the loop on that.
[3:58]Well, I love how you have all these steps, right?
[4:00]It's not just like it would be nice to be a unicorn, but this is like let me transform
[4:04]you into a unicorn.
[4:05]And then you have this real feeling of accomplishment at the end, right?
[4:08]Yeah.
[4:09]This is the secret steps that like no one knows.
[4:12]And so glitter poop is coming in to let us know how he does it.
[4:17]And you only if you only do these nine steps, then you'll be a you by the end.
[4:25]How come in you do you and you did it and all that you're just using the letter you and
[4:28]not why are you just curious?
[4:30]I don't know.
[4:31]It was just fun.
[4:32]Yeah.
[4:33]It is fun.
[4:34]Yeah.
[4:35]Just to spill out, you just seems like a lot of letters to just get it across.
[4:37]So it just seems like it could be a banner, but you do you totally totally.
[4:41]right.
[4:42]Yeah.
[4:43]Okay.
[4:44]What is your unicorn name?
[4:45]That's step one, by the way.
[4:46]Is choosing a unicorn name?
[4:47]Yes.
[4:48]My unicorn name is in the back.
[4:49]I am sassy sparkle pants.
[4:50]Oh.
[4:51]It's in the back.
[4:52]Did I miss it?
[4:53]Well, it's on the author description.
[4:55]She didn't even read it.
[4:56]I'm so unprepared.
[4:57]How cute is that?
[4:58]Like, Maddie Frost did those.
[5:00]She's a great illustrator, illustrator.
[5:01]I love her.
[5:02]Her art so much.
[5:03]She's right.
[5:04]And she is spunky happy hooves.
[5:05]Oh, I love that.
[5:07]So that was her idea to kind of come up with our author bios.
[5:11]Wow.
[5:12]Sassy sparkle pants.
[5:13]Can't really be that.
[5:14]That's pretty good.
[5:15]I mean, right.
[5:16]I thought so.
[5:17]I had to pass the in there.
[5:19]I debated on sparkle pants for a while because I don't really wear sparkly pants.
[5:23]But I feel like the unicorn you does wear sparkle pants.
[5:27]Yes.
[5:28]And I walk as if I wear sparkle pants.
[5:31]That's awesome.
[5:33]I mean, it's an interesting question.
[5:34]Right?
[5:35]Do you want your child to stand out in a crowd from day one?
[5:37]Is that the easiest path?
[5:39]Or is it an essential path?
[5:41]Or I don't think it's the easiest path.
[5:44]I just think that, you know, some kids don't fit into that, you know, I don't know what
[5:50]the mold is called.
[5:51]Like the popular mold, the one that just gets it, you know, that's just easy.
[5:55]They just make friends easily.
[5:57]They keep friends easily.
[5:59]For some reason, my kids have definitely struggled in that.
[6:01]And I don't know why.
[6:02]I think they're, they seem a little bit older for their age.
[6:05]So I think sometimes they don't quite connect.
[6:09]Like this doesn't sound bad.
[6:10]The emotional intelligence, I don't think it's like, I'm not putting people down in like
[6:14]a, you know, oh, you're, you know, emotional intelligence isn't there.
[6:17]But I just think they think differently.
[6:20]And I always just want them to be proud of who they are.
[6:23]And I think someday it will pay off, you know, I think that a lot of times the people
[6:28]who are different, you know, later stand out.
[6:32]And the ones who aren't as different later blend in.
[6:35]And so I just didn't ever want them to feel bad about, you know, who they were and to actually
[6:40]celebrate it, you know, celebrate that you love science, celebrate that, you know, that
[6:45]you're not into makeup, celebrate, you know, that that you love playing with earthworms
[6:49]more than makeup.
[6:50]So like those are the kind of things that, yeah, I mean, I think we should celebrate
[6:54]our kids differences.
[6:55]And we should encourage them to be different.
[6:57]We don't want them to be the same.
[6:58]totally.
[6:59]I love that.
[7:00]Because your earthworm holder is one day going to be like a Nobel winning scientist, right?
[7:03]That's what always happens.
[7:04]Hopefully she's going to be a vet.
[7:06]She's just got accepted.
[7:07]Well, there you go.
[7:08]That's so great.
[7:09]It's not accepted to the University of North Georgia, so she'll be going there.
[7:12]Oh, congratulations.
[7:14]Oh, that's great.
[7:15]Now it's true.
[7:16]I mean, it's, I used to think there was like a inverse correlation between popularity
[7:21]and seventh grade and long term success.
[7:22]Right.
[7:23]If you peak in seventh grade, that is not a good thing.
[7:26]I think you have to like throw a steady climb up, right?
[7:29]You don't want to peak too soon.
[7:31]No, you always want to be going up.
[7:33]You always want to be going up.
[7:34]Exactly.
[7:35]And sometimes we go back to the reunions and you know, it's interesting to see how people
[7:40]end up, you know, those people who were just like on top, you know, in high school.
[7:44]Maybe not so much anymore.
[7:46]So like, I think we take it too seriously when we're in that moment.
[7:50]But it's hard.
[7:51]You know, I think in high school we're forced together with people really it's the only
[7:54]time in our life that we don't choose to be there, right?
[7:58]Like you choose a college, you choose your job, you choose your friends in college.
[8:03]And usually those are out of, you know, I guess things that you have in common.
[8:08]But in high school, you're forced to kind of, to whoever you got lunch with that year,
[8:12]you know, it's, so sometimes you don't really fit in with that.
[8:16]That's true.
[8:17]Yeah.
[8:18]What about Theo Thasaurus?
[8:19]How did that one come about?
[8:20]The dinosaur who loved big words.
[8:22]It's funny.
[8:23]I don't know if you feel this way, but a lot of my books do come from my kids, even though
[8:26]they're older.
[8:27]Theo Thasaurus came about because my son, when he was a little bit younger, always try
[8:32]to impress his teachers with big words.
[8:35]And so I would read, because I'm the editor, right?
[8:38]You're probably the editor in the house.
[8:39]So I'm the editor in the house and I would read some of these words and say, did you
[8:43]look this word up?
[8:44]Because I'm not sure this is the context that this word should be used in.
[8:48]And he's like, teachers love big words.
[8:51]So there was one day I was in the kitchen cooking, which is not normal.
[8:54]I don't cook often.
[8:56]So I was cooking and he was yelling.
[8:58]My son was yelling from the back saying, what's another word for happy?
[9:01]You know, a bigger word for happy.
[9:02]And I was like, look at a Thasaurus.
[9:03]He's like, oh, what?
[9:04]And I was like, oh, Thasaurus.
[9:05]So we're screaming because in our house, we don't walk to the other room.
[9:08]We scream back and forth.
[9:10]So I'm screaming back and forth.
[9:11]Oh, what?
[9:12]That's so weird.
[9:13]I've never heard that happening.
[9:14]I never scream at all ever.
[9:16]No, I don't even know.
[9:18]Anyway, go on.
[9:20]And he said, I said at the source, he said to what?
[9:22]I said, a Thasaurus as in the dinosaur, the saurus.
[9:26]And I thought, surely that's been done.
[9:29]Like it was just that kind of thing.
[9:30]Like, oh, that's been done.
[9:32]There's no way someone hasn't done the dinosaur who loved big words as a Thasaurus.
[9:36]And I just started looking it up.
[9:37]And it had not been done.
[9:38]And so Theo also kind of, you know, sticks out like a sore thumb.
[9:43]He's the only Thasaurus in his class.
[9:45]No one's ever heard of a Thasaurus.
[9:48]He has very peculiar, you know, things that he does,
[9:51]that he eats, crudite, and they're like, ooh.
[9:54]So it also is really about a dinosaur trying to be himself.
[10:00]be accepted. And so I guess there's a little theme there.
[10:03]I think though, should I put my therapist test probably about for you. I would just
[10:09]probably need to get a couch. Are you feeling like you're not accepted lately? Are you feeling
[10:14]a little bit on the outskirts of things? Yeah, I'm feeling left out of a lot of things. I'm evident.
[10:21]I feel like we're saving like hundreds of dollars in therapy. Yeah, no problem.
[10:26]Sure, you can just replay this anytime. It's fun. I feel like everybody's left out because
[10:31]what even is even going on anymore? Right? Like we're all stuck most the time and some
[10:37]mean, it seems like with the kids going back to school, maybe some life is going back.
[10:42]Some what sort of cautiously, but I don't know. Just I don't know what everybody else is doing.
[10:48]I'm constantly like everybody's probably out like doing stuff, but I'm not, I don't know. I'm in here
[10:53]trying to make it hurt yourself and you know, I guess I'm missing out too.
[10:58]I'm not, but I'm hot. It's Joe Mo, right? Like the joy of missing out is what it's become.
[11:02]Yeah, exactly. I know. Like why is it whenever I'm out? I like can't wait to get back home.
[11:07]It's so sad. I mean, I enjoy it, but I'm like, oh, he's really happy to get him.
[11:11]Yeah, you're like that relief. It's because right now there's attention when you go out.
[11:14]You know, there's it just it doesn't feel like it feels like I don't know. I just feel kind of like
[11:19]an agrofo of like looking who's too close. Who's do this? Who's not wearing a mask? So I get home
[11:24]and like, oh, mask off, you know, like just can just be myself again and don't have to be like
[11:31]slightly paranoid and on guard. Well, I know you've already told me your story, but just in case
[11:36]this is the first time listeners are hearing from you. How did you end up becoming a children's
[11:40]forgotten? Well, I've always written young adult, but the way I fell into picture books is CC
[11:47]Lip Science was, you know, my first picture book with Kimberly Derting. And my daughter,
[11:53]who was much younger than probably nine or 10, had always done science camp. And she came home one
[11:58]day and I said, are you excited about science camp? You know, next week. And she said, no, not really.
[12:04]And this was someone who, like I said, earthworms outside in the yard, you know, while girls are
[12:10]standing in a circle, you know, talking about fashion, she's trying to catch a frog like it's just,
[12:15]and so she always love science. And she said, no, not this year. And she's like, science is for boys.
[12:20]And I immediately just got this picture of this little girl who was just like, science is not for
[12:26]boys. And I thought, I wonder if I could do, you know, a fancy Nancy for science. Like, it's nice
[12:33]to teach our kids to love pink and to be fancy. But why are we not teaching our girls to love
[12:38]science and be smart, smart and fancy, like, or fancy smart? However, you want to put it together.
[12:44]So that was kind of what kicked off that series. And him who had studied biology, you know, we
[12:49]were like, let's write this book together. So that was kind of how it started. And now somehow I am
[12:54]down like a picture book track, which was not my intention. I mean, my intention. And, you know,
[12:59]hopefully at some point, I would love to do a YA, you know, like a young adult book. But yeah, so I
[13:05]love picture books. And I love talking with the kids when they're that age, you know, and getting
[13:09]letters from now. I didn't think science was for girls either until you came. Oh, you're just like,
[13:16]okay, that's it. I touched one person like that's, but if that one person develops a cure for some
[13:22]disease, because all of a sudden they realize that this is something that can be accessible to them
[13:26]because of this book. I mean, how powerful is that? And I think I might have talked about this with
[13:30]you before, but I think what scared me that most was that someone someone because it wasn't my
[13:34]husband has a PhD in topography. And I love science. I do a lot of conservation efforts in Atlanta.
[13:41]So I couldn't figure out like how does someone like that get that message? So it kind of made me
[13:46]realize that I think we underestimate these young kids, like how much they absorb. They're like
[13:52]little sponges. And these messages sneak in that aren't necessarily messages that their teachers
[13:58]give. I know teachers aren't saying scientists for boys. I'm not saying that. So where did she get
[14:03]that message that was so strong that within a short period of time, she had gone from loving
[14:08]science to sciences for boys. That seems like that would be a big message somewhere, like a bullet,
[14:14]like a big billboard or something. Where did that come from? So I started realizing, you know,
[14:19]we can really make an impression on these kids at a very young age and, you know, help them think
[14:25]about the things that are important. I think we kind of focus on teens and we forget that, you know,
[14:30]those five, six, seven-year-olds are just looking for, you know, they're out there seeking answers
[14:36]and asking questions. And that was kind of what we loved about that Ceasey Love Science series.
[14:41]That's awesome. I love it. As I've told you, my kids loved it. Still love it. I just,
[14:47]I interviewed this author named Meg Cabot who writes some rom-coms and stuff. And in her...
[14:52]Oh, who's the cabot? I've never heard of her. Okay, fine. Okay. I think he's princess diaries. Yeah.
[14:57]Princess diaries. Yes, Princess diaries. Not everybody knows. Anyway,
[15:00]point of view. You think everybody knows. I mean, who knows? I don't know. Maybe somebody's listening
[15:04]right now who just, like, maybe it's a child listening. Who loves your picture books? Who knows? Anyway,
[15:09]now what was I even saying about Meg Cabot? Oh, because she's a YA. She's like a, not even YA. She's like a
[15:15]middle-grade graphic novel type author, like of a dog man series-ish. And she's always telling
[15:21]the character in the book. You know, I used to love your books. And she's like,
[15:25]I, that sounds bad. Well, I don't want to be able to have used to have liked my books. Like,
[15:30]the person that she hangs out with the other author, they're always like, your books are amazing.
[15:33]And I used to love your books. So anyway, that made me, when I said that too, I wanted to,
[15:38]you know, bite my tongue. They used to like your books. They still love your books.
[15:44]Used to read them more often. I guess I don't know. Anyway, so what picture books or what's on
[15:49]the horizon? You must have so much other stuff coming. I do. It's been like, you know, it's hard
[15:53]because as a writer, I think I spent 15 years just rejection, rejection, rejection. I self published
[15:59]some books that got rejected. And they sold a lot of copies, but I still, you know, wanted to break
[16:05]in. And then all of a sudden, you know, you get lucky, you hit something at the right time.
[16:11]And then some things happen. But I don't take that for granted, right? So that's each book is
[16:16]like special. And I don't expect another one. It's just each one that comes in. I love and it's
[16:20]the right time. And I hope it makes a difference. But I'm not expecting anything else because I
[16:24]think this business is hard. But we do have some more. We have three more love science. I can
[16:29]read these coming out. So that's great. We've got Vivi Love Science, sink or swim, which is coming out
[16:35]in February. I have another Theo book coming out. Theo finds the perfect pet. So he finds a pet
[16:42]that is maybe not so perfect. And he has to figure out how to communicate with this pet
[16:47]that he doesn't really know much about. And then Kim and I just announced that next fall,
[16:52]we have Penny, Penny, the engineering tale of the fourth pig. So Penny is the younger sister
[16:59]of the three little pigs. And she comes home to help them rebuild. But the wolf returns. And so
[17:06]she decides to help them out in a different way. So yeah. So that's kind of what
[17:12]it's on their horizon. That's great. How fun. I know. Did you ever think like when you were
[17:17]a kid reading and reading picture books that this is where you might end up or did you
[17:23]I don't even think I thought that authors were real. Like I thought someone was just
[17:27]in a warehouse somewhere cranking these things out under different people's names. Like I don't know
[17:31]if I ever thought there was a person sitting behind a desk creating a story. You know, when I was
[17:35]reading babysitters club or Nancy Drew, I don't do, I don't know. I never thought of it. You know,
[17:41]I used to write authors letters and they sometimes they wrote me back. And so I kind of knew they
[17:46]weren't computers, but. And this was before computers. So I was obviously advanced.
[17:53]No, I shouldn't have said that. I shouldn't have said computers. No, no, I got my first computer.
[17:56]And I was like eight or nine or something like that. It was like the biggest deal in my
[18:00]grandmother ruined the surprise by calling first thing and being like, do you like your new computer?
[18:04]And my mother was like, I thought that was a TV. Yeah, exactly. It was like because I
[18:09]they were so 100 feet wide or whatever it was. I always read, but I don't know if I ever thought
[18:14]about who was behind the book. Yeah, I guess no, I can get. Yeah. And what do you like to read?
[18:19]Like when you're not writing picture books, what are some of your go-to books that you read for fun?
[18:23]So maybe well, I follow your book club. So I try to read as many. And you come with armed with quotes
[18:30]every time, which I can't think enough for. It's amazing armed with quotes because they just kind of
[18:34]some some of them just call out to me. And this week is the plot, right? Is that the one this week?
[18:38]This coming week? Yeah. So I just finished that. And right now I'm reading The Husbands
[18:43]by Chandler Baker. And I try to read a YA2. So I'm also reading Lore by Alexander Bracken,
[18:50]very mythological. Just saying book. Yeah. Awesome. Excellent. What do you read? What am I reading?
[18:57]Yeah. What are you? You're probably way down. You're like six months down the road, right?
[19:00]Well, no. I mean, I'm behind actually some books. I'm okay, but some books like I just did a
[19:06]a book today that came out in May. And the person's already has a new book coming out. And I'm like,
[19:10]yeah, I prepared the wrong book. But anyway, but Mira Jacob, I did her today and then more
[19:13]in conversations. It's a graphic novel like for grown-ups. And I don't usually like graphic novel,
[19:18]but it's like a she drew these pictures and then put them over photography. Anyway, it's really
[19:23]great. She did the art too. She did the art. Yep. Oh, great. But it's really cool about like
[19:28]parenting and race. And she's Indian, Mary to Jewish guy. And I mean, really off-shopping now,
[19:33]but I happened to love this book. But it's very different. But I like different. So, you know,
[19:37]yeah, I like how it bounces around. Especially with your book club. I love how it makes
[19:41]it up a little bit. Yeah. Nobody wants to get bored, reading all the same stuff. I guess. I don't
[19:46]know. Yeah. Anyway. Well, amazing. Thank you so much. Theo thesaurus, the dinosaur who loved big
[19:53]words and shine like a unicorn. I will try to shine a little extra today on this very tired.
[20:00]going non shiny day for me. By the way, let me give a shout out to the illustrators
[20:05]because Maddie Frost is the illustrator on shine like a unicorn and how adorable is her art.
[20:10]I mean, totally stupid. This feels like it should be a picture. The cover looks like
[20:15]should be like framed on a kid's wall. You know, I mean, all these.
[20:18]Yeah, well, we made some poster because we're gonna do some like little anti-bullying like be a
[20:22]unit, you know, don't be a bully, be a unicorn. Love it. And then Theososaurus is Mike
[20:26]Moran. And I mean, it's it's so fun. We've got some virtual visits and stuff coming up in
[20:31]September and October, but it's so fun to watch them draw because they're very simple shapes. And
[20:36]as they're drawing, I'm like, I could totally be an illustrator. Like the he holds up is
[20:42]or she holds up hers and I hold up mine. And it's clearly different. But I did the same shapes they did,
[20:47]but it's it's definitely not a me. So the illustrators are a huge part. And Joelle Marie is our illustrator
[20:53]or newest illustrator for the CC love science series. And she's great. So shout out to the illustrators
[20:59]about them. These books wouldn't be, right? It's true. I tried to do a drawing class like an
[21:04]Instagram live drawing thing with the pandemic at one point. And like even with these very specific
[21:11]instructions, you know, I helped what I held up at the end was not at all. But it should have been.
[21:16]I know what's amazing. It's I don't know where I went wrong. I was like, I did the oval. I did the
[21:22]yeah, yeah, triangle. It just somehow ended up a blob. I know how my shapes are in the blobby.
[21:28]But you know what, Shelley, you do you. Yes, you do you. We don't have to be artists.
[21:34]We can take pictures of words instead. So yes, all right. All right. Well, thank you so much.
[21:41]Thanks for coming on again. And yeah, thank you for having me. Yeah. All right. Have a great day.
[21:45]Bye. Thanks. Thanks for listening to this episode of moms. Don't have time to read books.
[21:51]Don't forget to follow me on Instagram at zibi Owens and at moms don't have time to read books.
[21:56]Also sign up for my newsletter at zibiowans.com and sign up for my virtual book club and meet lots
[22:01]of authors on zoom every other week. Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan. In fact, texture sound for
[22:06]the sound editing. And thank you to Morning Moon Productions for providing this fantastic intro and
[22:10]now trim music.