Christina Tosi, EVERY CAKE HAS A STORY
[0:01]Hi, I'm Sivi Owens, and you're listening to the award-winning podcast,
[0:05]Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books.
[0:07]If you like this podcast, you will love my new anthology called Moms Don't Have Time to Have Kids.
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[0:22]My other podcast, Sex Talk with Sivi and Tracy.
[0:25]Check out Moms Don't Have Time to Write on Medium.
[0:28]And of course, my new publishing company called Sivi Books.
[0:32]And now back to our daily author interview site and a quick hello from some of my kids.
[0:37]Hi, hello.
[0:38]Enjoy the show.
[0:41]Christina Tosey is the author of Every Cake Has a Story.
[0:45]Christina, well actually she goes by Tosey, is the award-winning chef and owner of Milkbar.
[0:49]Known for baking outside the lines and turning dessert on his head,
[0:52]Tosey founded Milkbar in 2008 with treats like layer cakes with unfrosted sides,
[0:57]serial milk soft serve, and compost cookies.
[0:59]Milkbar is now available through 13 bakery locations throughout the country,
[1:03]as well as an online care package site, milkbarstore.com,
[1:06]and through product lines in the grocery store, including Target and Whole Foods.
[1:09]And for anyone in New York City, also available on Postmates.
[1:12]Christina is currently the host of Netflix's baked squad series, has been a judge on Fox's Master Chef Junior series,
[1:19]was the subject of an episode of the hit Netflix docuseries, Chef's Table,
[1:23]and is the author of four cookbooks.
[1:25]Mama Foucault Milkbar, Milklife Bar recipes and stories,
[1:28]Milkbar all about cake, and Milkbar kids only.
[1:31]Okay, well, I was gonna say welcome Christina, but I know that everybody calls you Tosey, so I'll just say,
[1:37]I don't know, welcome whoever, whatever.
[1:39]I'm so glad you're here.
[1:41]I'm so excited to be with you today.
[1:44]Okay, your children's book is one thing that we have to discuss.
[1:48]Every cake has a story, which is amazing and adorable and awesome and inspiring, no surprise.
[1:53]But I also have to talk to you about your cookbooks and your life in general and your, I mean, I'm just so, you've done so many amazing things.
[2:00]So it's like hard to know where to start.
[2:02]So let's start with the book.
[2:04]Okay, deal.
[2:05]Okay.
[2:06]So what made you write this children's book?
[2:08]You know, I am a new mom of a six month old, though, though I wrote the book before she was born.
[2:15]I really, I wrote it because when I hit pause for a moment, I thought about like,
[2:21]what I do and what's important to me.
[2:23]And I think one of the things that is always a secret that I have with myself is that I do my best work when I remember the kid in me.
[2:32]And that's whether I'm like doing my best work at Milk Bar or doing my best work for myself as like a human in the world.
[2:38]I'm my most happiest when I can, when I can like sort of like protect and let that part of me out to remember that like kid is a state of mind.
[2:47]As you get one year older and one year older, remembering that a lot of the secrets to life, you actually are, you know, you learned long ago.
[2:55]And I'm always trying to sort of like protect that in myself and then to bring it out of myself.
[2:59]And I think a lot of the work that we do at Milk Bar is really about we do it through the lens of dessert, but it's really about championing the kid in all of us reminding us of that and inviting us into a place that makes us feel that way again.
[3:14]And I heard myself just say I like to use this sort of phrase with my team over and over again like what's our flavor story what's the flavor story like rather than what's our point of inspiration.
[3:25]It's another way of saying what's our point of inspiration, but you know what is this dessert about what are we looking to create what is the story we're trying to tell through these layers of flavor and texture and deliciousness.
[3:37]And whenever we are dreaming up a layer cake I always say like what is the story behind this cake and set in a different way every one of our cakes has a story and the story is like where we were when we were dreaming it up and why it is what it is.
[3:55]We just added the cake to the menu at Milk Bar for the fall called the apple cider donut layer cake oh my god I pray easy I'm going to order that even right now girl and ask me sort of we need that like grounding in it, but it reminds us who we are and where we came from and what this cake.
[4:15]Why why we think the world needs this cake and what this cake should do and I just think it's a way of life it's an approach to life it's an if you can dream it you can do it but through the lens of this children's book every cake has a story.
[4:28]It is you know brings you on a little journey you know it's a kids book so it's four kids but let's be real most kids that are reading this book don't know how to read yet or learning how to read and they're doing it with someone that perhaps older than that also needs to be reminded of these things.
[4:43]And it's about a little girl named Sammy who lives in a town called Jamesville and everything is black and white and kind of ordinary everyone looks the same and does the same things and eats the same thing especially when it comes to cake.
[4:56]And Sammy dreams of a world that's more than that that is like looking at life and color and that is dreaming of cakes through exactly through.
[5:07]And you can see it as you flip through the pages right yeah it's amazing I mean I love how the pages literally go from black and white and actually when I showed this to my kids I have four kids.
[5:19]And I showed it to like my level this guy and he's like oh no black and white and I was like don't know but you got to see why.
[5:28]It's like exactly like we reminded what it feels like to live life in color and to celebrate individuality and creativity and personality and that's what the books all about.
[5:41]I love that so much not to mention that it just makes me hungry just even looking at these pictures and the pretzels and the Hershey kisses and all the different types of people and ingredients I mean like calling out all the ways to make cakes amazing it's like I know cereal strawberries pretzels and then of course lives at the back there's a little bonus recipe because.
[6:01]Sometimes people need just a little invitation into the kitchen to do the work themselves I saw that I was hiding that from my son.
[6:09]I see how to go straight down yeah show him what I have time to go we'll do that together amazing so did you like did you write all the words like what was the process like for.
[6:20]I did you know the funny part about it is the proposal you write to to convince the book publisher to want to publish the book is actually longer than.
[6:32]The book words it's up and in a beautiful way I think that also like carcans back to the beauty of simplicity when you're telling a story right like more is not more when it comes to words I also.
[6:42]You know the book is a picture book so the illustrations by Emily balls are just so incredible as well she does so much of the work of talking to ones imagination through visuals.
[6:55]So that it says it's as less about the words on the page and is more about the universe that you create in your head as you flip the pages yourself or with a with a young one or.
[7:07]Is a really fun process I've already started writing another because I mean we have I've lost count now of how many different layer cakes we've made at milk bar that have their own stories but.
[7:18]I think that this approach now that i'm parent probably like I have to come to reckoning with all of the like amazing parts of being a parent that then of course all the challenges are all the fears that you have and what your kid will.
[7:30]You know go through in life and I sort of think back to when I was a kid what were my things like what stopped me from.
[7:38]Like living out loud in full and inevitably it was like I have braces I feel upward you know my parents got divorced are things that are sometimes as a kid all you want is to feel normal and same so that you don't stick out.
[7:54]But I think that there's just an wonderful opportunity of books through the lens of a layer cake to tell kids different stories and different realities in a way that I hope makes every kid feel like.
[8:05]Oh, different is good like like same is not bad but different can also be good.
[8:13]It's a little bit of like my like secret mission through every cake has a story and through I think a lot of the other stories that kids need to hear and need to be reminded of like oh I have glasses what does that mean for me and it's like it doesn't mean anything for you just means that's a little bit more you and.
[8:30]Celebrate that embrace it and it's easiest to do when you tell kids that you're going to learn about it through layer cake I mean who doesn't like dessert.
[8:38]I don't know I mean they can just get off this podcast right now go listen to something else.
[8:44]So does the next book have a name like you already know what it is.
[8:48]We're working on the title I know what it's about and my editor and I are working through whether it's called every cake has a story and then it's you know there's a subtitle to it or how it will.
[9:02]How will name it but for now Sami and Jamesville as like the epic champion of the bigger broader every cake has a story.
[9:11]Is what's out in the world for everyone to enjoy.
[9:13]Yes, to talk into.
[9:15]Actually I have children's but coming out in April.
[9:18]It's called it's called princess charming and it's about a girl who can't doesn't think she has like a thing and then she realizes that not giving up is her thing and then there's like a twist at the end and it takes place in a castle and there's a movie star anyway whatever.
[9:32]But I'm definitely getting that.
[9:35]That's going on the book shop.
[9:37]When does it come out?
[9:38]It comes out April 19.
[9:39]Okay.
[9:40]I am ready.
[9:41]Having recently gone through this process myself and like having having a different conception of what it would be to write a children's book before actually writing a real one.
[9:50]It's been quite an interesting process especially with what you said about the words.
[9:54]You can't have them any words and there aren't that many pages and you have to tell a lot in visuals and.
[10:00]It's tough. It's harder than it looks.
[10:03]It is. It's a magn- it's a magnificently challenging thing because it also forces you to remember things that as adults maybe we forget to, right?
[10:12]Again, like you can say a lot without having to say a lot and a story can be told in ways that are more simple than we think everything has to be so complex.
[10:23]And so explains and it does not have to be.
[10:25]Yeah, kids are in kids are way smarter than we get them credit for.
[10:28]There you go. They pick up on everything. They'll like get it in two seconds.
[10:32]And let's talk about milk bar and all the the many cookbooks all of which I have done stairs.
[10:37]I'm like in like make myself sound embarrassing, but we have actually gone to the milk bar in place to make cakes in Brooklyn.
[10:43]You know, like the, you know, you've taken cake class, we take him cake class, we get milk bar cakes for every birthday.
[10:50]Like we're huge super fans.
[10:52]So I, and I just really like, I think you can tell and all the things that you make this whole sort of joy to be thing that you have going on, right?
[11:02]It's it's it's apparent.
[11:03]It's not just a cake. You're selling like an experience in like a state of mind and it comes through.
[11:08]It's just so fun. Not that cake is ever super serious, but it's just like all these things that you make the whole brand stands for so much more than just the cake kind of like what you're saying.
[11:18]So I'm interested in how you built this brand because that's really what it is. I mean, the whole milk bar brand and, you know, I mean, you referenced earlier that people on your team, when you ran track and everything called you tozy and that like everybody on your team cause you that.
[11:31]And so you've also built up this whole like team aspects.
[11:35]How did you like combine it all.
[11:37]That's a big question.
[11:38]No, it's a good question. You know, like I think about and I start laughing because I'm like, I'm not a marketing person.
[11:45]I didn't study marketing in school. So that that's like the least market. That's the least brand forward approach to anything. But so I only know what I know.
[11:56]And what I do know is that it's surrounding yourselves with truths. Right. It's surrounding yourselves with truth surrounding yourself with truths and championing those truths.
[12:06]So if from a team standpoint, it was sort of it's very simple. No one does it alone. I don't open up the shop and close up the shop. You know, I don't think every single cookie.
[12:16]I used to bake a lot of the cookies. I don't do that every day. Like I, we do it and we do it together. So making sure that that is something that's like shared and celebrated is really important.
[12:29]Because it makes us feel something and the truth of that is very simple. So anything that goes on the milk bar menu. It's got a pass.
[12:39]It's got a pass through that does this make you feel something. Not doesn't make you feel something like yeah, it makes me feel like I ate a bite of sugar or yeah, it makes me feel a little bit this.
[12:48]It has to make you feel something like capital F feel something. Why do we do what we do. I mean, we don't do it.
[12:55]I mean, working in a kitchen is not the easiest the easiest way to earn a paycheck and no one that works in a kitchen does it for because it's like maximizing our potential in a paycheck.
[13:10]We do it because we love what we do because it is a job where you can have fun and put on music and be a little silly and jump around.
[13:21]So if that's the truth, then we have to make sure that I'm only protected but to celebrate it and everything that we do. So when people come and visit us at one of the bakeries in New York or DC or Boston or LA or what have you.
[13:33]We want it's an invitation into our universe when even when you get a cookie on out like the grocery store on milk bar cookie. We want it to be just a little moment.
[13:43]We can do a little, you know what I mean, you can shake it a little bit and you can get excited. And I think really the brand part of it is as much as as much as I can tell you is really about knowing what the truths are and doing everything you can to protect them, celebrate them and grow them.
[14:02]It's not that it's it of course is challenging as you go to grow because you want to build them and protect them even more, but it's also simple. What are your truths and what do you do with them.
[14:13]I've seen how excited I got at the end of a jet blue flight when they handed out a milk bar cookie. I literally like grab my husband next to me and I was like,
[14:21]look, that was awesome. Are you still doing that.
[14:25]We don't do it. We don't. We aren't currently doing it. But we're working on the nails. But I would literally look at my husband and be like, you pick up that cookie right now.
[14:32]You have enough cookies. Don't judge me. You pick up that because he's like, but you can have these cookies wherever you pick up that cookie right now.
[14:40]But it's those moments. It's finding people in their moments where they least expect this life and color moment, this gas of like, oh my gosh, I'm feeling something incredible right now.
[14:51]And I wasn't expecting to feel this way.
[14:53]My favorite moments in life like that's what it's all about. It's the same thing. It's the reason I bake at home. It's the reason you would like come to bake club, bake something and then drop it off at your neighbor's door step because you become obsessed with creating these moments for people in their life and you get a little dose of it in your life too.
[15:08]Where you like this growing up? Did you always want to make people happy like this? Oh my gosh, my mom, I'm a total pedigree of my mom and my grandma from like a joyful person, joy giving end of things. They loved to bake, not for the art of baking, but for the connectivity that a baked good can can bring you for other people in the world.
[15:29]The joy that I got you. I see you care about you. I'm here for you. I mean, as a kid, I would, you know, my mom would drop me off summers at my grandma's house and she'd be like, we're baking and then we're going to the nursing home or we're, you know, we're baking and then we're put them in plastic baggies. We're doing around of the neighborhood and it's just what I know. It's what I know.
[15:51]And how has it been doing all the TV stuff? Awesome. You know, TV is such an interesting thing. It is a brilliant way to like to meet people in pretty intimate moments, right? Because when we're watching TV, we're usually we think we're keeping the world out and TV is a really like beautiful way to get to be a part of people's lives.
[16:13]In some of their like most intimate, like barrier, lowering, lowering moments and that's pretty interesting. I mean, it's a challenge though too because there are so many, there's a lot of free of the weight. There's so many different steps into the process.
[16:26]And I think in everything like learning what to say yes, learning what to say no to is oftentimes the most important thing to make sure that what you're saying yes to are the things that are the most like meaningful and magical.
[16:37]And I just launched a show on Netflix called Bake Squad that is about showing up for people through like the brilliant marvelous lens of dessert when they need help celebrating something in life.
[16:50]And I think that that for me was such a fun show to make and be a part of because that's what I'm here for.
[16:58]And I like work is meant to be and so it's really fun to get to do that and to get to share it with people all across the country like we ship nationwide, right?
[17:07]So you can get an apple cider donut cake to your doorstep and we have cookies and ice cream and trouble crumb cakes in the grocery stores, but the easiest way the quickest way into someone's life sometimes is through their TV screen because you know not everyone eats dessert or has the ability to for for one reason or another.
[17:25]It's a really fun way to bring like joy and lightness and sweetness in irregardless of someone's state so it's really fun.
[17:33]That's amazing.
[17:34]And how do you stay fit like you just had you just had a baby.
[17:39]That baby.
[17:40]It's amazing.
[17:42]Oh, it's a good question. I don't know. I think I tried to.
[17:46]I tried to. I'm a pretty active person in general. Like one of the reasons that I chose to become a chef at pastry chef was because I knew that kitchen work would was physical.
[17:57]I like to be on the move. I have a hard time if I'm sitting all day. I like to be doing and going.
[18:04]So outright, I think I'm naturally that is one of my happy places is being out and around and doing things being active is like my sanity in general, but I just try and find a balance.
[18:16]I mean, I say that, but like it's always a blissful imbalance. Right. I'm either like behaving myself or I'm not, but I live a lot of like you know, like I'm a drink green smoothie, but it's also because I know I'm going to go to the commissary and taste.
[18:29]You know, you know, versions 23 24 25 and 26 of the cake that we're going to put on the menu for the December holiday, you know what I mean like you just kind of figure out what you got to do to game life to make it happen, but I also.
[18:44]I'm a really big like long distance runner to to the like, why does everyone call you toes. I don't know. I just called me that for, you know, like as long as I've like run cross country as a teenager.
[18:57]I just like to be active, but I also like to be sort of like out in these beautiful solitary thinking creative moments and I do my best work oftentimes when I'm on a run. So I suppose I get a fair amount of exercise.
[19:09]I don't think I've stood up in three days. So I am for me. I can't my husband will look at me at the end of the day and be like, I think you need to go outside because he can see the look on my eyes.
[19:20]That's like you haven't found your sanity yet today. You need fresh air and movement and you do not need me to come with you.
[19:29]You know yourself so well. It's really awesome. I think that's like one of your superpowers right. You're so self aware. You have such a clear mission. You know what you want to do in the world and you're just like putting it all out there.
[19:42]Thank you. I mean, but that's also, you know, the risk in and of itself. You just have to quiet the other voices in that.
[19:48]That tell you why you can or what you should be worried about or what have you. I think it's the like joy begets joy and if you figure out what joy looks like for you.
[19:57]Life life worth living.
[20:00]is about taking risks and then in and you just go for it.
[20:03]I mean, you can't fail if you're doing things
[20:05]that are inherently true for you.
[20:07]So I'd like, and who are, who's measuring you anyways?
[20:11]You should be the only one measuring yourself.
[20:13]I mean, that's literally every cake has
[20:15]a story of full circle, you know what I mean?
[20:17]It's the you and you and that's the only thing
[20:19]that matters to figure out and to unleash in this world.
[20:21]Thank you for bringing it back to the book.
[20:23]Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[20:25]Okay, advice to aspiring authors?
[20:28]Ooh, great question.
[20:29]I think it's very simple.
[20:32]I mean, it's a lot of the same things.
[20:33]It's figuring out what your voice is,
[20:35]what you think the world needs to hear.
[20:38]And then being honest about it.
[20:39]I mean, when I opened Milk Bar,
[20:40]I said to myself very specifically,
[20:43]the world doesn't need more of the same awesome bakery.
[20:47]The world needs a bakery that lives in my brain
[20:51]or in my team's brain that is true and unique to us.
[20:55]So I think from an aspiring author's standpoint,
[20:58]you got to have grit.
[20:59]You got to be, you're going to have plenty of challenges
[21:02]before you find successes.
[21:03]So keep going at it wherever you are in your young author's face
[21:07]and then find your voice and make sure it's your voice
[21:10]and it's unique to you.
[21:11]And if that's true, the world needs to hear it.
[21:13]So just keep pushing.
[21:14]So let's say that you'll find your way.
[21:16]Let's say there's a listener who's totally motivated
[21:18]by what you're saying and wants to be like a part
[21:20]of the Milk Bar universe and get more involved
[21:24]or whatever.
[21:24]And it's just like drinking this Kool-Aid
[21:26]and wants to follow you every or what should they do?
[21:29]Like how can they get more invested in your success
[21:32]and empire and all the rest?
[21:34]You know, I think doing your homework,
[21:37]doing your research is really important.
[21:39]We, Milk Bar lives in so many different lenses
[21:42]of the world now where I think I think understanding
[21:46]what you like about what we do
[21:48]and what's meaningful to you.
[21:49]And if you want to get in touch,
[21:50]get in touch with us at MilkBarStore.com.
[21:53]Like we're always looking for big, brilliant,
[21:57]individual personalities that have a point of view
[22:01]that want to be a part of our team
[22:03]and call me tozing, call everyone else TV, you know?
[22:06]But also if it's about creating your own Milk Bar,
[22:08]then create your own Milk Bar
[22:10]and make sure that it's yours and is brilliant
[22:12]and individualistic to you.
[22:14]And there is no right way to do it.
[22:19]Every way is right way as long as it's true to you.
[22:21]I think the wrong way is it's not true to you
[22:23]and you're trying to create something
[22:24]that somebody else already has or is doing
[22:26]or making something right
[22:28]because you think that's what right looks like.
[22:31]I think that's the difference between you two.
[22:32]Okay, last question in honor of every cake has a story.
[22:35]What is your go-to flavor of cake?
[22:38]Like what's your favorite cake?
[22:40]You have to pick, you can't say you love them all.
[22:42]Yeah, well, I'm not, I can't even touch the cakes
[22:44]in the Milk Bar universe with that question
[22:47]because there's a, they each have a story
[22:50]so they each pull on a, you know, tug on a hard string.
[22:53]But brass tas, like we're just talking about,
[22:55]it's my birthday cake is showing up.
[22:58]What's that cake?
[22:59]I mean, hilariously enough.
[23:00]It is the fun, fatty box cake mix
[23:03]from like the grocery store aisle
[23:05]with a tub of vanilla and fatty frosting,
[23:07]which is the flavor story of the classic Milk Bar birthday cake.
[23:13]But that's the cake that I want once a year on my birthday.
[23:16]It makes me feel like Sammy, like that kid
[23:19]that I'm always trying to show up for and protect
[23:21]and pull out in my day.
[23:24]I want it once a year.
[23:25]It's super special.
[23:26]And then all the other day, 364 days a year,
[23:29]I'm trying to figure out what the next layer cake story is
[23:32]at Milk Bar with the team and create it
[23:34]and bring it into your life.
[23:36]Love it.
[23:37]Amazing.
[23:38]All right, Christina, Tozi, whoever.
[23:39]Thank you so much.
[23:41]Thank you for coming on.
[23:43]Good love with your friends.
[23:44]I enjoy it.
[23:46]I am very excited about your book.
[23:47]So every cake has a story.
[23:49]Thank you.
[23:50]Bye, Liza.
[23:50]Bye, Liza.
[23:52]Thanks for listening to this episode of Moms.
[23:54]Don't have time to read books.
[23:56]Don't forget to follow me on Instagram at zebi Owens
[23:59]and at Moms.
[23:59]Don't have time to read books.
[24:01]Also sign up for my newsletter at zebiowens.com
[24:03]and sign up for my virtual book club
[24:05]and meet lots of authors on Zoom every other week.
[24:08]Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan.
[24:09]In fact, texture sound for the sound editing.
[24:12]And thank you to Morning Moon Productions
[24:13]for providing this fantastic intro and now trim music.