Kimberly McCreight, FRIENDS LIKE THESE: A Novel
[0:01]Hi, this is Vivi Owens and you're listening to the award-winning podcast Momstone Have Time to Read books
[0:06]I'm also the host of Momstone Have Time to Lose Weight and I'm the editor of the anthology which you should run out and buy
[0:13]Called moms don't have time to a quarantine anthology. I'll proceed to that book. Go to COVID-19
[0:19]Vaccine Research and I'm the editor-in-chief of momstone have time to write a new publication on medium and we're accepting
[0:26]submissions so please send your personal essays there and if all that isn't enough you can follow me on Instagram
[0:31]at zivioins and my website is zivioins.com. Okay, now back to this amazing podcast
[0:38]Kimberly McCrite is the author of Friends Like These, a novel. She's the New York Times best-selling
[0:43]author of Reconstructing Amelia which was nominated for the Edgar, Anthony and Alex Awards
[0:48]and was called Entertainment Weekly's favorite book of the year. Reconstructing Amelia has been
[0:52]optioned for TV by HBO, Nicole Kidman's Blossom Films and David E. Kelly. McCrite's second
[0:59]adult novel where they found her was a USA Today Bestseller and a Kirkus Best Mystery of the Year.
[1:04]While her third a good marriage was named a best book of the summer by the New York Times people
[1:10]and publishers weekly, it was also an Amazon Best Mystery of the Month. A TV adaptation of a good
[1:15]marriage is coming soon from Amazon and Nicole Kidman's Blossom Films. McCrite's most recent
[1:21]book Friends Like These was named a good morning American buzz pick and an Amazon Best Book
[1:26]of the Month. It will be adapted for TV by Amblin Television. McCrite is also the author of the
[1:32]New York Times best-selling young adult trilogy The Outliers which includes the Outlighters,
[1:36]The Scattering and the Collide which are optioned for film by Lionsgate and Reese Witherspoon's
[1:41]Pacific Standard. She attended Vassar College and graduated cum laude from the University of
[1:46]Pennsylvania Law School. She currently lives in Brooklyn, New York. How are you? It's great to see you.
[1:50]It's great to see you too. Congratulations on Zippy's box. Good news. Yeah, good for you.
[1:57]Thank you. I'm really excited. Yeah, it's just I'm just excited and it's a really fun team and
[2:02]we're gonna have a lot of fun and make a difference. I hope and yeah I just can't wait. It's so fun.
[2:07]Oh awesome congratulations. Thank you. Okay so your new book tell everybody what it's about
[2:14]and how you came up with this idea and the 10 friends and the whole thing and let's let's get into it.
[2:19]Yes, friends like these is about a type of group of college friends who reunite 10 years after
[2:23]graduation to stage an intervention for one of their group. It's an intervention that quickly
[2:28]goes terribly wrong when the book opens. A car has been found in the woods. One of the friends
[2:33]is dead inside another one is missing and when the local detective shows up to investigate it's
[2:39]clear that the rest of the friends are hiding something. So you know the truth about what happened
[2:44]in the car is you know a complicated mix of conflicts with the locals and also secrets that the
[2:51]friends have buried and said the book is very much I hope an edge of your seat page turner
[2:58]but it is also a commentary on friendship. I'm particularly group dynamics on old friendships either
[3:02]way friendships evolve every time and the complications of groups think and the dangerous side of
[3:08]loyalty and things like that. So I'm much in the way I did or I hoped I did and a good marriage kind
[3:14]of looking at the the gray zone of marriage. This kind of looks at the gray zone of those close
[3:18]friendships. Awesome. I love to get their edges you know touch all about it at the time. It's funny I
[3:23]just interviewed today this man named Billy Baker who if you haven't read his book it's it's called
[3:27]We Need to Hang Out but it's sort of this very funny referendum on male friendship and how
[3:32]we're also busy that we don't make enough time for our friends and like the importance of friendship
[3:37]and now here this is also about friendship and how the bonds can linger for so many years but
[3:43]it sounds like you know sometimes a big dude is something traumatic happening to United Group or
[3:49]all other reasons and how you can sort of jump back into it at a moment's notice which is
[3:53]really crazy when you think about it no matter how much time it's gone by. Yeah absolutely. I mean the
[3:58]book was definitely inspired by like my own tight-knit group of classrooms were still like my
[4:04]family. I mean they are like the most present consistent aspect of my life you know I talked to them
[4:10]multiple times a week and so and I think it's an interesting thing like as much as that
[4:15]creates this great sense of comfort and security. When it's a group I think you can get like a
[4:19]signed a role in your group like you're the the fixer or you're the the upbeat one or you're
[4:26]whatever and I think that that can be complicated. So who are you and the group? I was the responsible
[4:31]one. Really? Okay. Which is funny is like now my friends I hope my friends about listening
[4:37]she wasn't but there's a character in the book Stephanie who's kind of the one that always is espousing
[4:42]like reasonable opinions now again like she's very flawed herself and makes a lot of bad choices
[4:47]but that's really her side roles to be the one who like you know is there and I was the one in
[4:53]college who was like in the library you could find me studying late at night you know things like
[4:57]that you could you you know that people came to for advice just to be clear I'm not saying I had
[5:02]through advice to offer or I didn't have problems myself but that's definitely the role I played for
[5:08]sure. Wow. So do you feel like now that you would you rather have another slide? Like you said
[5:13]they should change every time like what what's that would you like today? You know I kind of like
[5:17]that's not because again let's you feel morally superior. I'm comfortable with my slot. I'm more
[5:24]talking about other people who might not want anymore to be the you know the screw up or the you know
[5:31]roll like that you know mine gives me some of the moral high ground so I'm perfectly happy.
[5:38]I know I'm thinking now about my college girlfriends who I know. So what's your what's your role
[5:41]in your group of friends? Because you have a tiny group from college too. I do. I do. Yeah although
[5:47]we lost my friend Stacy who was like such a piece the glue you know to the group and then somebody
[5:52]was and she died on 9-11 and like you know it's that through line has kept us close because we all
[5:58]enter that but you know we're in a different form than we were. I don't know what they would say
[6:04]about my role. I don't know actually. You'll have to email you'll have to email them after the show.
[6:09]Maybe you'll maybe you'll find out you're the fixer too. I don't think so because I'm pretty sure
[6:16]I know I know who that was in my group and that's it wasn't me. So and I know who are like
[6:21]fearful. Maybe you were the like upbeat one. You like you do have a really good vibe with I use
[6:26]maybe that was you know maybe I don't know. I was always kind of stressed and studying and you know
[6:31]in the library really late. I mean we all were studying I guess but I don't know. I also didn't
[6:36]used to like to drink during the day and so that that was like not the coolest. Like I just never
[6:41]have really liked doing that. So I love that that's the standard day drinking. Right? I mean I
[6:46]you know I do wear day drinking so I really won't disappoint. That's what made me like really
[6:52]studious. Right. Just not excessive dick drinking. Yeah. So you know yeah. I was most restrained.
[6:59]I don't know. I wasn't though. I don't know. Yeah it's funny. I went to my review there a couple
[7:05]of years and years ago and you know some of them just like went out and like got sloshed. It's
[7:10]a party and I was like are you okay? We're like 45 and that's like crazy what's going on. But
[7:17]yeah it's like coming home right. You act like your old self a lot of the time. That's right.
[7:21]but I wish that a lot is what is a lot in the book. Is that like people revert to those roles
[7:26]like when we're back from people that kind of you know. Sorry. Were we talking about a book? Sorry.
[7:30]Yeah. I know. You and I are just like it's just like we're chatting so we just forgot.
[7:35]But let's go back to the book. I'm sorry. Okay tell me about writing this book and like how long
[7:41]it took and what the whole process is like and all that good stuff. Yeah. So Eda share
[7:46]wrote it. No I didn't write it quickly. I mean usually it takes it's probably the same time it
[7:50]takes me to write most books. So it was 18 months between this book being published and a good marriage
[7:55]which is pretty typical for me. I do the first draft rather quickly like three months and then
[8:00]it's about like nine months or so we're revising. It's not easy to keep that schedule. I just want
[8:05]to like be clear. It's not like oh I just I was like oh my gosh three months but that's that.
[8:10]Sit down and it's just like it comes out. I was talking to some I forget what some authors again.
[8:14]I just like sit down and it just comes out like get no that that no. So it's this I'm making
[8:20]this sound like easy none of it's easy as you know. So anyway that that is kind of the process for
[8:25]me. I don't work from an outline. I do it. I you know start with my characters from really
[8:30]write my way into the story and I that is a terrible method but it is the only method I have.
[8:35]So I mean you waste time you know I think to some extent but I do think with an outline you
[8:40]probably also waste time because you sit there and try to figure everything out and then you
[8:43]realize once you go to write it that that's not going to work anyway. So you know I think that no
[8:48]matter what your your approach you're going to end up it's just this part is going to get
[8:53]thrown out. That's the reality of writing a book. So yeah so that it's about how long it took me
[8:59]and it's definitely a complex narrative structure. It's got multiple narrators but they really
[9:05]function as two narrators as the group of friends and then they're so detective and those are
[9:09]your two time frames and so it alternates between those two. You get the different perspectives
[9:14]of the friends but their timeline just moves forward. So I think it's a way to keep it more clear
[9:20]that way and the big thing about this book is that I really wanted to deliver like a twist at
[9:24]the end a really big twist and I think all my books have twist to some extent but this one has
[9:30]like one at the end. Really big one and so I'm very excited about that because I'm very much
[9:36]wanted to do that. Amazing. Yeah I never see the end coming. I'm like the worst reader in that
[9:42]regard. I'm like I'd or maybe the most goal. You're the best reader. Are you kidding me? I'm always
[9:48]going to surprise you then. That's the best. That's true. I'm like like you know like a cheap date
[9:52]when it comes to them. That's true. Well that's awesome. No I remember and by the way I don't think
[9:59]it's a way to-
[10:00]I mean, it just takes a lot of time to write it, but like that it like all of that is part of it.
[10:05]I think people beat themselves up thinking it's not, but like every single person I talk to is like well
[10:11]then I had to throw away these pages or I tried this and then I wrote this new draft and you know
[10:15]I had to do this first and like that's just what that's just what it is.
[10:18]I think you're right.
[10:19]I think the more they feel like a sparring writers, I think the more that you can just consider that a piece of the process.
[10:25]You know, like that's actually part of the book even if it's thrown out.
[10:28]The less, I think people panic sometimes thinking what they're doing isn't any good, but like you have to do the non good before you can make it great.
[10:35]So like that is is genuine as you said part of the process for sure.
[10:39]Yeah, so the advice is just keep on doing not great stuff.
[10:42]Yes.
[10:42]Lowery.
[10:43]I might.
[10:43]But I guess we stood nice for sparring writers is like lower your standards just like really write like crap and just don't worry about it.
[10:50]And I mean, I think that's advice a lot of people give and just really just just get it done because you can't make it great if it's not there for the first place.
[10:58]You heard it here first.
[10:59]Yeah, do a bad job and you read it successful.
[11:02]Yeah, there's a totally crappy that is my advice.
[11:05]So are you already working on your next book?
[11:08]Well, I've actually been working in part on the adaptation of Friends like these.
[11:12]It's been an option that I'm working on the adoption via Steven Spielberg's Ambulant Alvision for a series.
[11:19]And I'm working on the adaptation.
[11:21]So I've been spent some time, I've been spending some time doing that.
[11:26]But I am working on my next book about a hundred pages of it.
[11:29]And it's a bit.
[11:30]I've been calling it a reverse reconstructing amulant, which was my first book because in this case, a college age daughter comes back home from NYU to
[11:39]park slope for dinner and her mother is missing.
[11:41]And she has to piece together the truth and food her mother was and as opposed to reconstructing me like it was a mother.
[11:47]We're constructing her daughter's life.
[11:48]So it's really interesting to to look at it that way because my kids were so young whenever we can start to email.
[11:55]And now they are, you know, much older.
[11:57]And so it's a it's a really, I'm very excited about it.
[12:00]It was this called deconstructing amelio.
[12:03]Now my first one was reconstarting amelio.
[12:06]This is not this is an epithelial yet.
[12:08]So I'm still working on the title, but take that one if you want.
[12:10]Yeah.
[12:11]I can't.
[12:11]I'll try to I think there might be a little confusion, but maybe it would be good.
[12:15]Maybe that's a good part too.
[12:18]I mean, they do those movies all the time.
[12:20]Exactly.
[12:20]Yeah.
[12:21]Yeah.
[12:22]Yeah.
[12:23]Yeah.
[12:24]Oh my gosh.
[12:26]So what are you most looking forward to on your tour at this time?
[12:29]Are you doing live events?
[12:30]You're doing all virtual events?
[12:31]Like what are you excited about?
[12:32]Yeah.
[12:33]So I'm for choice.
[12:34]I'm excited about this to be.
[12:35]And now of course.
[12:36]Right.
[12:37]This was the this was the top.
[12:39]You know, I do really love this.
[12:41]I talked to Adriana Triiani last night.
[12:43]I love talking.
[12:44]I love her.
[12:45]Yeah.
[12:46]So I did some incredible events with some amazing authors this time.
[12:48]I got to talk to Lucy Foley and Greer Hendrix and Christian
[12:52]Alger.
[12:53]And so getting to talk to him.
[12:55]It's like for her burns and obon and I was alive.
[12:57]And then my lunch.
[12:58]But to get to talk to them.
[13:00]And it would fun when you're on a virtual event with an author
[13:03]like that.
[13:04]It's like no one else is there.
[13:05]Like for you.
[13:06]And I'm right now.
[13:07]It's just the two of us.
[13:08]And I feel like just the two of us.
[13:09]So that was really fun.
[13:10]Because it was just like talking shop with a bunch of authors.
[13:13]I hadn't known before, hadn't had a chance to meet.
[13:16]So that was really great experience.
[13:18]And I had a couple of in-person events.
[13:20]I did one at a library in Connecticut, which was the first I had done.
[13:23]I didn't get to do any with a good marriage.
[13:25]So I got to do my first in person since, you know, whatever,
[13:30]my last book was for good marriage.
[13:32]And that was incredible to get to just CA readers again and
[13:36]talk in front of me.
[13:37]Like hear them laugh and get to do that all in person.
[13:39]So that was really special to do that.
[13:41]And then I had one event at Litchfield Books in South Carolina,
[13:44]another live in-person events.
[13:46]And that's fun to get to do this also.
[13:48]You should do like a little care package with a good marriage.
[13:52]Right?
[13:53]I mean, just because it was during the pandemic,
[13:55]but that book was so good.
[13:56]You should like bring it out again.
[13:57]I know.
[13:58]I know.
[13:59]You know, you always pushed the newest one.
[14:01]But it was really great.
[14:02]I don't know.
[14:03]Yeah.
[14:04]It was really great.
[14:05]Well, I mean, hopefully the series.
[14:06]No, I'm coming.
[14:07]Yeah.
[14:08]Not really that well, kind of given a chance to see the world
[14:10]in a different way.
[14:11]Awesome.
[14:12]Well, I didn't mean to say this book was not also great.
[14:14]I just meant like if you could, you know, bundle it up.
[14:17]Yeah.
[14:18]I don't know.
[14:19]Right.
[14:20]Do it two for one.
[14:21]Yeah.
[14:22]Something like that.
[14:23]Especially like authors like you can turn books quickly, right?
[14:26]And, you know, I don't know.
[14:27]It's just it's good to keep them up in the rotation.
[14:29]Yeah.
[14:30]Yeah.
[14:31]It's like your children.
[14:32]You don't want to like other children being forgotten.
[14:34]Definitely.
[14:35]It's true.
[14:36]Although someday they want to forget so much.
[14:38]Depending on what they do that that morning, you know,
[14:40]that's a good point.
[14:41]That is awesome.
[14:42]That is awesome.
[14:43]Yeah.
[14:44]Oh my gosh.
[14:45]Well, congratulations on playing, really exciting
[14:48]and the adaptation and all of that.
[14:50]That's so cool.
[14:51]And yeah, just really excited to keep talking to you about all
[14:54]your great stuff.
[14:55]Thank you so much.
[14:56]Well, thank you so much for having me.
[14:57]And good luck with all your creative so much stuff going on.
[15:00]So good luck with that with all of it.
[15:03]And good to have you back.
[15:04]I knew you were in LA.
[15:05]So it's good to be back.
[15:06]We'll sit here back in New York though.
[15:07]It's like you're near.
[15:08]I am.
[15:09]You're so crowded.
[15:10]Are you in New York?
[15:11]Yeah.
[15:12]Oh my gosh.
[15:13]It's never been so crowded.
[15:14]Or maybe I'm just like sensory overload.
[15:17]I like can't deal with the street.
[15:19]It's like people everywhere in traffic and.
[15:22]Oh my gosh.
[15:23]Last year I was so quiet here.
[15:26]There was like no one here.
[15:28]I know.
[15:29]There was no one there.
[15:30]That was so nice.
[15:31]It was so nice.
[15:32]Oh my gosh.
[15:33]Okay.
[15:34]Well, all right.
[15:35]We'll forge on.
[15:36]All right.
[15:37]Great to see you.
[15:38]Okay.
[15:39]Anyway, great to see you.
[15:40]And I'll talk to you later.
[15:41]Thanks so much for having me.
[15:42]Bye.
[15:43]Bye.
[15:44]Thanks for listening to this episode of Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books.
[15:48]Don't forget to follow me on Instagram at zibbowens and at Moms Don't Have Time to Read
[15:53]Books.
[15:54]Also sign up for my newsletter at zibbowens.com and sign up for my virtual book club and meet
[15:58]lots of authors on Zoom every other week.
[16:00]Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan.
[16:01]In fact, texture sound for the sound editing.
[16:04]And thank you to Morning Moon Productions for providing this fantastic intro and out trim music.
[16:08]Thank you.