R.J. Palacio, PONY
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[0:38]R.J. Palacio is the author of Pony.
[0:41]She's also the author of the number one New York Times bestseller Wonder,
[0:46]which has sold over 12 million copies worldwide.
[0:49]If you haven't read Wonder, you have to go do that.
[0:51]I mean, pony's also amazing, but Wonder was like insane.
[0:54]The book's message inspired the choose kind movement,
[0:57]and has been embraced by readers around the world,
[0:59]with the book published in over 50 languages.
[1:01]Wonder was made into a blockbuster movie starring Julia Roberts,
[1:05]Owen Wilson, and Jacob Tremblay.
[1:07]Palacio's other best-selling books include 365 Days of Wonder,
[1:11]Mr. Brown's Book of Precepts, Agianme, Three Wonder Stories,
[1:15]the picture book were all wonders, and the graphic novel White Bird,
[1:18]which is currently being filmed as a major motion picture,
[1:21]starring Jillian Anderson and Helen Mirin.
[1:24]Palacio lives in Brooklyn with her husband, two sons, and two dogs.
[1:28]Welcome, Raquel. Thanks so much for coming on mom's.
[1:30]Don't have time to read books to discuss pony.
[1:32]Thank you so much for inviting me. I'm so excited.
[1:35]I loved this book.
[1:37]I read it like, start to finish.
[1:40]It was so immersive.
[1:41]I got chills.
[1:43]I was like near tears and many points.
[1:45]And then after I read the entire thing,
[1:47]I went online and watched the trailer after your comments to the end.
[1:51]And I was like, oh, what trailer?
[1:52]Then I played it and I was like, oh, my God.
[1:54]And then I emailed your publicist.
[1:56]And I was like, that was so emotional.
[2:00]Thank you so much.
[2:01]It means so much to, you know, it's the first thing I've kind of written
[2:05]outside of the Wonder world.
[2:06]So I'm nervous.
[2:08]It's really nervous about what people's reactions will be.
[2:11]So thank you. It means a lot.
[2:13]So when I heard what it was about,
[2:14]and maybe you can tell listeners the sort of elevator pitch of it,
[2:19]I feel like it didn't like, I mean,
[2:21]I guess it never really does justice to the book.
[2:23]You know, I mean, like the plot itself is just one tiny piece
[2:26]because I feel like this book was written.
[2:28]Well, you tell when it's about,
[2:29]but I just feel like it's about like life and death and family
[2:33]and like, you know, all of it.
[2:35]So anyway, I'm so glad you're saying that because it is.
[2:39]Okay. So on the premise, it's very linear narrative,
[2:43]very kind of straightforward about a 12 year old boy who lives
[2:47]kind of alone in the middle of nowhere with his dad
[2:50]and his only friend really who is a ghost companion
[2:54]that he's had since as long as he could remember.
[2:56]And, and the book opens with some armed man.
[2:59]Again, this takes place in the 18 phase in the sort of the American frontier,
[3:03]sort of a vast unknown territory full of pockets of true wilderness
[3:09]and wildness and all of that.
[3:11]And so these three armed men come a middle of the night for his dad.
[3:15]They take him away and Silas, the boy is left alone and terrified.
[3:20]And when the horse, one of the men had been sort of leading shows up again
[3:25]in the morning, Silas takes that as a sign from the universe.
[3:29]Kind of that he actually has to go and save his dad.
[3:31]That is dad needs him and he has to go on this journey.
[3:35]So on the surface, it's a very kind of straightforward quest journey.
[3:40]You know, sort of boy meets, boy goes out and has a specific agenda.
[3:45]You know, I'm going to save my dad and I have a horse and I have a companion.
[3:48]You know, kind of again, classic heroes journey stuff.
[3:51]But I did, I'm so glad you I did also want to really touch on on bigger themes
[3:57]about death and love and connections, the connections that tie us together as human beings.
[4:04]And, but I didn't want to do it in a heavy handed way.
[4:06]so but so so when I have people who are like great readers, like you sort of like
[4:12]actually make those connections without us having to like say, it's a book about things like
[4:17]you know, it's so great.
[4:18]So I'm on thrilled.
[4:19]Oh, good.
[4:20]Well, it just, yeah, it just resonated.
[4:24]There was so much.
[4:25]I found myself wondering like if you had, if you as the author sort of, if it had been
[4:32]inspired by loss or I know you wrote it during the pandemic or that you had thrown out like
[4:37]most of the book and started over from scratch, which is just, I'm so sorry, but that's amazing
[4:41]that you had to do that.
[4:42]And I'm sorry you had to go through it to get to this point.
[4:44]But you know, all of this, you know, we'll hear, I'll just like read a quote or like this one
[4:49]for instance, you said, I can't tell you what some ghosts know or don't.
[4:53]He replied softly, death is different for everyone.
[4:55]Just like life is people see the world they believe in and you see the world they believe in.
[5:00]I know it's not easy for you.
[5:02]And then there was another one says, it's always been a wonder to me and always will be to see
[5:06]something invisible, be made visible, slowly magically the negative of the moon took form on the
[5:11]glass plate inside the bath.
[5:12]But I feel like that was actually much more than the photograph.
[5:15]It's like the theme of the whole book in a way.
[5:17]Yes, exactly.
[5:19]The, the, the correlation between photography and, and because the book takes place in the early
[5:25]days of photography as a science and, and new discoveries were being made all the time.
[5:30]I mean, I still find myself as a fan of photography.
[5:34]I mean, I said photography, I went to art school.
[5:36]So it's like, you know, foundation year photography.
[5:39]And I have always just found it fascinating, even though I understand a little bit,
[5:44]the chemical science behind it, still the idea of taking this invisible image, placing it in
[5:51]a bath of some sort of solution and then having a latent image appear is kind of miraculous.
[5:58]And in, in that way, so there is a correlation between or a metaphor between this idea
[6:05]that how in photography the invisible does become visible through the action of sunlight and
[6:10]some chemicals.
[6:11]But in a way, death can be like that too.
[6:14]I mean, there, there are, you know, there's so much that is invisible in this world and things
[6:19]that we don't understand doesn't mean they're not there.
[6:22]It just means, you know, we don't see them.
[6:24]We don't have whatever we need, you know, and, and Silas is a boy who can see ghosts.
[6:31]He can see, he has for whatever reasons a connection to that other world, which you can either
[6:37]believe in or not.
[6:38]And that's, that's totally fine.
[6:39]But it's a fun world to delve into a little bit.
[6:43]And so yes, I started writing this book many years ago.
[6:47]It was sort of around the time that my, my own dad was dying.
[6:51]He was, he was old, he was like, he was an old man though.
[6:53]And, and, you know, it's, that comes with its own sadness and all of that.
[6:57]But, but it's not like I was a child.
[6:59]I just want to make that clear.
[7:01]But my mother had passed away almost 20 years ago.
[7:04]And, you know, I, I, I'm sure everyone who is lucky enough to have great parents can
[7:09]sort of identify with this idea that's sort of the big fear in our lives when we're little,
[7:15]or that something would happen to our parents.
[7:17]And it was something that I was a very anxious kid when it came to that stuff.
[7:22]And I thought about a lot.
[7:24]And then suddenly, you know, I find myself in my 50s facing that sense of like,
[7:29]oh my goodness, they're gone.
[7:30]And, and I'm okay.
[7:31]And, and the world goes on.
[7:34]And, and, you know, I don't know.
[7:35]I was just thinking a lot about those connections, how they, they, it's really the love, right?
[7:41]It just, that just doesn't go away.
[7:43]And that connection is always there.
[7:46]Even if, you know, I wish I could, I could still speak and hear them.
[7:50]I wish I were stylists.
[7:51]But so that was on my mind.
[7:53]And like I said, like you said, I had started this novel, but it was,
[7:59]you know, I was 400 pages into it, two years in writing it.
[8:04]And I was probably not even a third of the way through.
[8:07]Because there was so much in there, you know.
[8:11]And I realized that what I didn't want to write one of these giant,
[8:15]big epics, you know, that would have been 1200 pages easily by the end.
[8:19]I wanted to write a really quick epic.
[8:21]So I, I knew I was just, you know, sometimes you just have to,
[8:24]not only course correct, but you just have to like, okay, this is just not working.
[8:28]So I just, I threw it out literally because I had to.
[8:32]And didn't, you know, went on to other things, didn't think about it.
[8:35]And then, but, you know, the book and the characters kept coming back to me over the years,
[8:39]in bits and pieces.
[8:40]But I never could figure out sort of how to make this quick epic of it.
[8:45]And then for some reason, during the lockdown, I just, I don't know, just kind of like,
[8:51]I just sat down one day and it was like it was ready.
[8:54]It had baked, it was fully baked and it was just ready to come out.
[8:58]And the story just kind of like literally just like, it was like one of the most
[9:02]glorious writing experiments I've ever had because it just like flew like every day to 10.
[9:06]And I knew where I was going and it was just, it was a lot of fun to write.
[9:09]So yeah, that was that story.
[9:11]Wow. Well, I feel like you can tell that in the reading.
[9:14]Right. You know, like the pacing and the reading.
[9:16]And it's just like, all keeps going.
[9:19]So effortlessly, I guess.
[9:21]Yeah. I mean, what you were saying about your parents, by the way, I mean, you,
[9:25]you are an orphan at any age.
[9:27]Right. Or if I had like in your 50s, it doesn't matter.
[9:30]It's still you.
[9:31]So your parents, it's still that feeling of who is looking out in the world.
[9:36]Right.
[9:36]Like it's a sensation that I don't think, I think you captured it so well with Silas,
[9:41]but because his mom, you know, is from the very beginning, she died in childbirth.
[9:48]So he's, yeah, so he's always living with her still.
[9:50]Yeah. Yeah.
[9:51]And interestingly with him, there was one scene where I think it was,
[9:56]I'm forgetting who he was talking to, but when the souls that you
[10:00]You can see he has this realization,
[10:02]like maybe they don't know that they're gone.
[10:06]Like maybe they don't know.
[10:08]Like what if they think that they're still with us
[10:11]or what if these, you know,
[10:12]some souls sort of stay longer and some don't.
[10:14]And I don't know, I totally like,
[10:16]maybe not to the extent of Silas,
[10:18]but I do believe in like mediums
[10:19]that who knows what happened.
[10:21]Like I've had a really powerful,
[10:23]a couple of medium experiences.
[10:24]So I feel like once you've had those
[10:26]as hard to go back, right?
[10:28]Yeah, exactly.
[10:29]Well, maybe I'll believe it.
[10:30]There's something there.
[10:31]Right? Exactly.
[10:32]Yeah.
[10:33]How did you get it?
[10:34]Right.
[10:35]And even if there's no explanation for it,
[10:36]it sort of doesn't deny the fact
[10:39]that these realities possibly could exist.
[10:42]I mean, you know, that they knew something
[10:43]that they had no reason to know.
[10:45]So there's some things out there.
[10:46]And I can't explain it,
[10:48]but yeah, I just,
[10:49]I did want to sort of,
[10:50]I really had a sense or I have a sense
[10:53]that, you know, just like people, you know,
[10:54]this were human beings, you know,
[10:57]where verbs were, you know,
[10:59]it's always a process and a journey being alive.
[11:02]And I don't think that that it just makes no sense
[11:05]for that suddenly to stop
[11:07]as if the idea that whatever souls that we are
[11:10]suddenly know everything, you know, okay, you die
[11:13]and suddenly you're all knowing,
[11:14]no, you're still the same person you were,
[11:16]but maybe a little, you know, I don't know.
[11:19]But that's kind of what I wanted to capture.
[11:20]It's sort of the sense that there are mysteries
[11:22]that will just never really be able to wrap our heads
[11:25]around that we can accept them and live with them
[11:28]and welcome them and love them
[11:30]and kind of make the world wondrous, you know,
[11:33]and it's okay.
[11:35]I mean, I feel like that provides so much comfort
[11:37]for me.
[11:38]I don't know if you think that.
[11:39]So, you know, I've had conversations with myself
[11:42]like, well, it probably isn't true,
[11:43]but it's making me feel better now.
[11:45]But am I just fooling myself?
[11:48]And is it worth fooling myself?
[11:49]If I feel better, sorry, have you been in my head?
[11:53]Because that's exactly, you're like totally describing
[11:56]everything I've ever felt.
[11:57]And then I realized there's a point where whether you,
[12:00]it's not a question of whether you believe
[12:02]or whether you want to believe, but they're both fine.
[12:05]Yeah, so yeah, yeah.
[12:06]Why not?
[12:07]Exactly, okay.
[12:08]Yeah, it doesn't matter.
[12:10]Well, more to the literary side.
[12:12]So you had a lot of references I felt like
[12:15]to this whole, like Ulysses Telemachus sort of journey.
[12:19]Was that in part like the format you wanted to encapsulate
[12:23]in this journey with the way, not the way finders,
[12:27]but you know, the people as they, yeah, yeah.
[12:29]Yeah, absolutely.
[12:30]And that was sort of how I wanted the book to be
[12:34]in the beginning, again, eight years ago,
[12:36]whenever it was that I threw out those pages.
[12:39]Because I always had wanted to just write
[12:42]a very linear journey, like, you know,
[12:44]from point A to point J.
[12:47]And then, and just have things happen along the way.
[12:50]And then use that sort of device
[12:52]as a way of telling a larger story.
[12:54]I, you know, part of the issue was just figuring out
[12:59]how to do that in a way that doesn't feel too cumbersome
[13:04]or too descriptive.
[13:06]You know, I did a lot of research for the book.
[13:09]And I end up falling, you know, I love old things
[13:13]and end up falling in love with the things that you find out.
[13:16]And then I would put too much description in there.
[13:20]And just, it was just to, I mean, there was a point
[13:23]where I knew like the railroad schedules
[13:26]of trains on the Erie Canal, leading.
[13:29]I mean, like, I knew so much.
[13:31]It was crazy.
[13:33]And I needed, honestly, I needed to just kind of walk away
[13:36]from all the research and just, you know,
[13:39]just let it kind of settle and then pick it up
[13:43]when it was at a point where I remembered
[13:46]what I needed to remember.
[13:47]And I forgot what I'd never needed to know.
[13:50]So, and that's exactly what kind of came out.
[13:52]So it was good.
[13:53]I'm glad I waited.
[13:54]I'm glad you waited too.
[13:55]And you ending, which I won't give away in any way.
[13:58]And part of it, I had maybe an inkling,
[14:00]but then other parts not at all, not at all.
[14:03]Did you know where it was all headed?
[14:05]Like, did you know all those big pieces from the start?
[14:08]I knew it's from the start.
[14:10]I knew that I had certain landmarks I wanted to hit now.
[14:14]And that was kind of the fun part about like writing it.
[14:18]When all of a sudden it's like,
[14:19]you know you want this there.
[14:21]You know, you know, you know bits and pieces,
[14:24]but how to get there exactly still has to work itself out.
[14:28]And then all of a sudden it's like,
[14:30]oh, you know, it's like finding a little jigsaw puzzle.
[14:33]And it's like, oh my God, yes, this'll and then this
[14:38]and then it just kind of works itself out.
[14:40]So at least with me, I didn't have any kind of firm outline.
[14:44]I just knew where I was going
[14:47]and what I wanted to hit.
[14:48]And there's only one point I can't go into it
[14:51]where I flinched in my first draft because I just,
[14:55]you know, it's heartbreaking.
[14:56]Things are heartbreaking.
[14:57]And you kind of like, oh, maybe I could,
[14:59]maybe this person doesn't have to cross or whatever.
[15:03]And so I remember that was the only time I came downstairs.
[15:07]I didn't with my family because we were in lockdown.
[15:09]So they would hear about my progress on the book.
[15:11]And I'm like, it was the first and only time
[15:14]during this sort of process of writing
[15:16]that I was like, oh, I'm going to have to go up.
[15:20]You know, he can't, he has to die whoever was.
[15:23]And that was heartbreaking because you do feel,
[15:26]when you're writing, you do have the power of life
[15:28]and death, you can decide who lives, who dies.
[15:31]And so but in terms of the journey,
[15:33]that person was always meant to leave.
[15:36]And yeah.
[15:37]And it was heartbreaking because I fall in love.
[15:40]I mean, these characters have lived for a long time.
[15:43]They really haven't changed over the course of the years.
[15:45]So it was fun getting them out on paper, too.
[15:47]It was really, it was nice sort of introducing,
[15:50]letting the world meet them, too.
[15:51]That's always a nice journey as well.
[15:53]Wow, amazing.
[15:55]Well, I, I mean, well done with,
[15:57]I mean, some of the things that I just got chills.
[16:00]I was like, oh my goodness.
[16:02]So I won't ruin anything, but really, really amazing.
[16:04]Very cool.
[16:05]Like for instance, I always knew the violin
[16:08]but you did feature.
[16:09]Okay.
[16:10]Okay.
[16:11]And what about the shoe and everything?
[16:13]The, yeah.
[16:14]Yeah.
[16:15]Okay.
[16:16]From the back.
[16:17]Yep.
[16:18]Yep.
[16:19]Okay.
[16:20]Did you ever watch Dr. Jamago?
[16:22]No.
[16:23]Did I?
[16:24]Did I wait?
[16:25]I may have, but if I did, it was so long ago.
[16:27]I feel like I watched it as a kid.
[16:28]It came out forever ago, right?
[16:30]It came out forever ago.
[16:31]And it's one of those like, it has an intermission.
[16:33]It's like super.
[16:34]Yeah, I think I watched it.
[16:35]But there's a whole, there's a whole bellalika thing in there.
[16:38]I've always loved that.
[16:39]So the bellalika is kind of a key to some, you know, whatever.
[16:42]Okay.
[16:43]And that just always stuck with me so.
[16:44]Wow.
[16:45]I should probably watch that again.
[16:46]Next time I find six free hours to, you know,
[16:49]watch Dr. Jamago.
[16:50]You know, okay, maybe not.
[16:53]And the song that the refrain and then to hear it in the trailer.
[17:00]I mean, honestly, that's like, I don't,
[17:02]doesn't it make you cry?
[17:03]Like, does that have personal relevance to you?
[17:05]Like, how did you come up?
[17:06]Yes.
[17:07]Well, for, you know, in a way, it was that song.
[17:11]I think that finally freed the story.
[17:14]Weirdly enough with wonder.
[17:17]You know, I had had this, you know,
[17:18]I'd had sort of the incident with the,
[17:20]I don't know if I have to tell the story.
[17:21]So many times the child and the, you know,
[17:23]the ice cream store who had a facial difference.
[17:25]And, but it was hearing Natalie Merchant's song wonder
[17:29]that kind of like, oh, I don't know.
[17:31]It just kind of like, it really, it's weird.
[17:35]It just like kind of made it like, oh, my goodness.
[17:37]I'm going to write a book.
[17:38]I'm just going to call it wonder.
[17:39]It's going to be about this.
[17:40]And all along, you know, with Pony, it's like,
[17:42]I wanted that song to come to me.
[17:44]And I didn't, I didn't have the song.
[17:46]And then during lockdown, I was, as, you know,
[17:50]I don't know.
[17:51]I just had a lot of time on my hands.
[17:52]And I found myself like on a website listening
[17:55]to, you know, 16th century ballads or folk ballads.
[17:59]And that song came, and I saw it.
[18:03]And I heard, I first I read the lyrics.
[18:04]And I was like, oh, oh my goodness.
[18:07]And then I started researching the song.
[18:09]And it was hard, you know, there are,
[18:11]there have been some renditions of it
[18:13]that aren't necessarily my cup of tea,
[18:16]but the cord arrangements were there.
[18:18]And I play guitar.
[18:19]And I started like coming up with a, anyway, it was great.
[18:22]And so my sons are in it, my older son sings.
[18:26]And my younger son plays guitar.
[18:27]So it was also our COVID project.
[18:29]It was so much fun.
[18:31]Because first we, you know, we had to practice
[18:33]not that they weren't busy, by the way,
[18:35]they were super busy, but they gave me enough time
[18:37]to be able to sort of learn the song and practice.
[18:40]And then I reached out to Molly Fletcher,
[18:42]who is incredible violinist.
[18:44]My husband had worked with her before.
[18:47]And she helped arrange the violin solo
[18:49]and a recording studio.
[18:50]And then we did the music video.
[18:52]And it was just, it was so much fun to film that.
[18:54]It was, and oh, and I got the costumes.
[18:56]And it was just great.
[18:57]It was, and no one was in Prospect Park.
[19:00]We could shoot where we did.
[19:02]Saturday morning.
[19:03]It was great.
[19:04]How did you get a lot of old fashioned looking?
[19:06]Those are just apps.
[19:08]Wow.
[19:09]You just, yeah, we did it with our phone.
[19:10]So my husband, my son's girlfriend, Rebecca.
[19:14]And I were just like, okay, there you go.
[19:17]And I was like, you know, so yeah, it was,
[19:19]it was, thank you.
[19:20]I really appreciate it.
[19:21]Because that was so much fun.
[19:22]Wow.
[19:23]That's amazing.
[19:24]It's so personal and everything.
[19:25]Wow.
[19:26]Did you think about not calling this book, Pony?
[19:29]I mean, not that I don't love the title.
[19:31]And it's a great title.
[19:32]That's a great cover.
[19:33]No, no, no, you can not like it.
[19:34]It's the thing I don't like it.
[19:36]I'm just saying, yeah, I'm wondering what those discussions
[19:39]were like when the title is.
[19:40]I had, it was always Pony for me.
[19:45]When it even when it was 400 pages, I was always Pony.
[19:48]Because I, you know, that's what I always thought about it.
[19:50]When my publisher from the very beginning is like,
[19:52]oh, we don't love the, you know, we don't love it.
[19:54]And my sons were like, oh, Pony.
[19:57]I don't, mom, I don't think I would read that book.
[19:59]I don't like it.
[20:00]Tony is like, you know, my little pony, kind of, it's just kind of whatever.
[20:03]I'm like, okay, okay, so I tried other titles.
[20:06]It was, it was this bright land for a while.
[20:09]It was, I had other titles.
[20:11]They all just felt wrong to me in the end.
[20:14]And, you know, I vacillated again when I turned in the manuscript.
[20:19]And, you know, you get your first read from the publishers and everyone
[20:22]weighs in.
[20:23]That was the only thing that everyone said, you know, but by then I was,
[20:28]I was really wed to it.
[20:30]And I knew also what the cover would look like because I designed the cover
[20:33]because that was my background.
[20:34]I, you know, I was a jacket designer.
[20:36]So I kind of knew how I wanted it to look.
[20:38]So by then it was just too late.
[20:40]It was, there's like, I'm sorry, it's pony.
[20:42]Forgive me, but that's what it is in my head.
[20:45]And it's, I think it's what it has to be at this point.
[20:47]So, well, I think it's too late just a question.
[20:51]It's too late to change it now.
[20:53]No, I'm kidding.
[20:53]It's great.
[20:54]It's a strong title.
[20:55]Yeah.
[20:56]Yeah, I know it's, it's a, it's a weirdly, yeah, it can be anything.
[21:01]But titles are, are very strange.
[21:03]And I think as an author, just like when you name someone, the character,
[21:07]something, it's really hard to change the name later on.
[21:09]Like if you suddenly, for whatever reason, it's like, OK, that's not the same
[21:13]person, you know.
[21:14]And so, yeah, very interesting.
[21:16]Oh, yeah.
[21:17]So are you working on anything new?
[21:19]Like, what's after this button?
[21:20]Oh, you know, Tony should say, because last time I took so long to get
[21:23]from wonder and the whiteboard to Tony, I actually started.
[21:27]I was on vacation.
[21:28]And I thought, you know, I'm just going to start my, my next one.
[21:31]I, I don't want to go to into it.
[21:33]But I think I, I mean, I'm, I haven't like officially started,
[21:37]but I've started like thinking about it.
[21:40]I mean, then putting words and thoughts down.
[21:43]So yeah, I want to, I want to just keep doing it.
[21:46]I like writing.
[21:46]It's fun when it goes well.
[21:48]It's really great, you know, and, and when it's hard, it's, it's hard.
[21:53]But, let's hope this one goes as well as, as Tony did.
[21:57]I really enjoyed the experience of writing that one.
[22:00]I had enjoyed wonder as well.
[22:01]So, you know, but wonder was more, you know, because I was working a nine to five
[22:06]job.
[22:06]So I used to write in the middle of the night.
[22:08]I used to get up to 12 to three.
[22:10]And I did that.
[22:10]Yeah.
[22:11]My kids were younger than so that was the only quiet time of day.
[22:14]You would know what you were looking for.
[22:15]I was reading finishing this book at 4 30 this morning.
[22:18]Because I was, I mean, I'm like, come on, nobody's going to be awake.
[22:21]And then, of course, I hear footsteps like an hour later.
[22:23]I'm like, oh, you know, and I can only afford four, how old are you kids?
[22:28]Again, like what, what range?
[22:30]And eight, and then I have 14 year old twins.
[22:32]So, oh my goodness.
[22:33]So you, so COVID, wow, kudos to you.
[22:37]I thought her has COVID right now.
[22:39]One of them tell, I know, oh my goodness.
[22:42]And it's fine, she's not sick.
[22:43]So I'm not fine, but, you know, yeah, you know, it's always something.
[22:47]It's always something, but that's okay.
[22:48]They bring lots of joy.
[22:49]Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[22:51]Like you feel like what's writing.
[22:52]I'm like, all right, I'll keep doing it.
[22:53]You know, a lot of times it's great.
[22:56]Yeah, that's exactly right.
[22:57]I've, I always, for the younger kids, it's been especially, I mean,
[23:00]not that it has been hard for the older kids.
[23:02]My 17 year old son really well, but still, it was a long time to be locked in
[23:06]with your parents.
[23:07]So there's no great age.
[23:08]There was no age where you're like, no, you know, you know, this age.
[23:11]Yeah, there's no good age.
[23:13]Actually, I have to say my, my older son who's 24 came back to live with us
[23:17]for the year and I hadn't had to live with us since before college.
[23:21]That was kind of cool.
[23:22]Okay.
[23:22]All right, yeah, that was a good age.
[23:24]Yeah, I didn't mind, you know, getting a whole other extra year of having him
[23:28]around.
[23:28]So that was nice.
[23:29]Well, better for parents.
[23:30]I feel like it wasn't going for a lot of parents.
[23:32]I'm just saying for the kids, yeah, yeah, yeah, for the kids, right, exactly.
[23:35]If you're going to be a movie, it must be, right?
[23:38]You know, where I, yes, either a movie or possibly, I mean, I, I've already had
[23:46]several talks, the movie seems like a natural, right?
[23:49]But I kind of think it would make a really great dingy,
[23:53]streaming kind of series just because, you know, I lost had the sort of the, you know,
[23:59]you have the main narrative, but then you can actually have the backstories
[24:02]of all these characters.
[24:03]And because, you know, by all of these characters exist in my head, they're,
[24:08]they're small and minor characters.
[24:10]I mean, the character of Pa in a movie would actually be a minor role
[24:15]because he doesn't actually have a lot of air time.
[24:17]Whereas in the series, Pa has an incredible backstories starting in Scotland.
[24:23]And then an incredible love story with Silas's mother, a poor man and a,
[24:29]and a rich girl, 1850s Philadelphia society.
[24:32]I mean, it's a, it's a really beautiful story that isn't actually told,
[24:37]but just kind of hinted at in Pony.
[24:39]But in a, in a kind of a serious thing, I think really could be told.
[24:43]And then it would all tie in at the end.
[24:46]And so I'm thinking 10 episodes is really what we would need to really tell the story.
[24:50]So that I think is the question, like whether or not it would be better served
[24:55]as a movie or as maybe a, that's harder to get off the ground.
[25:00]I believe these days.
[25:01]So, and she will be okay either way.
[25:03]I'm getting it off the, we shall see, we shall see.
[25:06]But it's very off the, like you could say, I don't know, it has such universal appeal.
[25:12]It doesn't matter like what era it's in.
[25:13]It's like so engrossing.
[25:15]Like it's just, that's, you're just going to make it better.
[25:18]Anyway, I'm rambling.
[25:19]But no, no, I love, I love hearing this.
[25:22]Honestly, you have no idea.
[25:24]It's music to my ears for many reasons.
[25:26]But mostly because as I said, it's so different from wonder.
[25:29]And I know that when I love an author and I love a book,
[25:31]I kind of want them to write the same book over and over again.
[25:34]And I was really afraid of disappointing people.
[25:36]So the idea that, you know, the response I'm getting is that people are not,
[25:40]they're, they're not being disappointed.
[25:42]So I'm really thrilled.
[25:43]Now, I think it's great when authors try new things.
[25:45]I, who did I talk to?
[25:47]There was, gosh, I'm starting to lose my mind in my old age of five,
[25:52]he has to hear all of McLean who had written historical fiction.
[25:56]And then wrote all the stars or something.
[25:58]Anyway, which was more of a thriller, psychological mystery.
[26:01]Anyway, she was so worried when we had our conversation,
[26:03]like that she was shifting genres.
[26:05]And I was like, I don't think you should be this worried.
[26:08]Like, it's going to be a good book.
[26:10]And readers just really went great book.
[26:12]So I don't, it's true.
[26:14]And it turned out, it would be stellar.
[26:16]And I anyway, it, it all works.
[26:17]That's it.
[26:18]I think what happens is between the writer and the reader,
[26:21]there's all these in between.
[26:23]So there's the book sellers and then there's the publishers.
[26:26]And then there's the pop, you know, there's a whole lot, you know, so if you're lucky enough
[26:31]as a writer to connect directly with the reader, despite all the genres,
[26:35]you know, there's, there's what shelf you end up.
[26:37]I know, I know, there's so much rigmar.
[26:39]I know, but readers are, I think people don't give enough credit to readers, honestly.
[26:44]I mean, I think you're absolutely right.
[26:46]So anyway, speaking of, okay.
[26:47]So what advice would you have for aspiring authors?
[26:50]And then I'll leave you alone.
[26:51]I promise no, not at all.
[26:53]This has been wonderful.
[26:54]I could talk to you every day.
[26:55]I would say, you know, to, you know, I was about to say something
[27:00]that I've told people, but I don't follow it.
[27:02]So now I'm not sure it's true.
[27:04]I was about to say, continue without fail to write something every day, because I really
[27:09]was told that that is what you're supposed to do, just even if, you know, it's not for a book,
[27:15]whatever, just just even if it's journaling, whatever it is, write it, you know, get it down.
[27:20]But I'm not entirely sure that that's, I have to admit that I don't write every day.
[27:25]And I write when I have something to write.
[27:28]So I don't want to give advice that I am not sticking to.
[27:33]So I guess I would say, I think reading is just as important as writing.
[27:39]Oh, like, every time I read something new, and if it's good, you kind of, it goes into some sort
[27:46]of little piece of your brain.
[27:49]And you don't even realize later on when you're writing that you're activating
[27:54]your little homages.
[27:55]No one else might see them.
[27:57]But, you know, whether it's a violin, because I remembered loving Dr.
[28:01]Chicago as a kid, and there was a bellalika in there that kind of factors into things.
[28:05]Or whether it's, I mean, here I'm talking about movies, and I should be talking about books,
[28:09]but the ghost in Mrs. Muir, which is a movie I referenced in Wonder.
[28:13]And if you watch it again, actually Phoebe might like that one.
[28:16]Okay.
[28:17]You know, it's a Rex Harris and Gene Tierney, whatever, but there's a ghost in it.
[28:21]And I didn't even realize that, oh, there, you know, there are things that are coming up
[28:26]from that, which I remember seeing when I was a kid with my mom.
[28:29]And with books all the time, I feel like there are little, you know,
[28:33]there are books that I've read that aren't even that great, but there might be an incredible
[28:37]sort of scene or a moment or something that you kind of remember.
[28:41]You absorb and then manifest itself or spark something in your own writing later on.
[28:47]So I would say just, you know, if you want to be a writer, you read everything all the time
[28:54]and read with passion.
[28:56]And, you know, it's so easy to be distracted nowadays.
[28:59]I know it was just on vacation.
[29:00]I had my little stack of books, but I also had my phone.
[29:05]It's just so much easier sometimes to scroll, but you have to put the phone away and then
[29:09]just start a book and love it.
[29:11]And that's it.
[29:11]That's great advice, particularly on the phone.
[29:14]Yes.
[29:16]Put the phone away.
[29:16]Put the phone away.
[29:17]I don't know.
[29:18]Easier said than done.
[29:20]Because you're said than done, exactly.
[29:22]Well, Raquel, thank you so much.
[29:23]This was so fun.
[29:24]Thank you so much.
[29:25]Thank you for all you do.
[29:27]I mean, that was just a really immersive experience for me.
[29:30]So I felt, you know, I love feeling moved.
[29:33]I just love it.
[29:34]So thank you for doing it.
[29:35]Thank you.
[29:35]I so appreciate it.
[29:37]And you have absolutely no idea how much your words really are impacting me.
[29:41]I'm going to cry in a little while, but thank you very much.
[29:44]I really appreciate it.
[29:45]No, I mean so much.
[29:46]It really does.
[29:47]Thank you.
[29:48]Okay.
[29:48]Have a great take care.
[29:49]Bye bye.
[29:50]Thanks, YouTube.
[29:50]Bye bye.
[29:52]Thanks for listening to this episode of Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books.
[29:56]Don't forget to follow me on Instagram at the Beowans and at Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books.
[30:00]Time to read books.
[30:01]Also sign up for my newsletter at zibbowens.com
[30:03]and sign up for my virtual book club
[30:05]and meet lots of authors on Zoom every other week.
[30:08]Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan at Textures Sound
[30:10]for the Sound Editing.
[30:11]And thank you to Morning Moon Productions
[30:13]for providing this fantastic intro and outro music.