Hayley Mills, FOREVER YOUNG: A Memoir

2021-09-07 · 27:22 · Hayley Mills · Podcast Audio

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[0:37]Haley Mills is the author of Forever Young, a memoir. Haley began her acting career as a child at age 12 and

[0:44]was soon hailed as a rising star winning the Academy Juvenile Award as one of only 12 actors to ever be bestowed with

[0:51]This honor the BAFTA Award for most promising newcomer and the Golden Globe Award for new star of the year

[0:57]Her six-picture deal with Walt Disney made her an international star and included her dual role as the twins Sharon and Susan in the

[1:05]Parent Trap, which by the way I watched like a thousand times growing up for her success with Disney

[1:09]She received the Disney legend award

[1:11]Haley's role in Whistle Down the Wind in 1961 adaptation of the novel written by her mother Mary Haley Bell

[1:17]secured her nomination for the BAFTA Award for Best British Actress

[1:21]She has continued to make films and TV drama among them the flame trees of Thicca and featured as Miss Bliss and

[1:28]Saved by the Bell and as Caroline in Wilded Heart on ITV. She lives in Southwest London.

[1:33]Welcome Haley. Thank you so much for coming on momstone have time to read books to discuss your beautiful new memoir

[1:40]Congratulations, and I'm so excited to talk to you about it

[1:43]Well, it's just a great pleasure for me to be here and thank you very much

[1:48]Yes, this is quite a departure

[1:50]for me

[1:52]to do to have done something like this

[1:54]I did have my son in the background who was very helpful my son Crispin who is a screenwriter

[2:01]So he was very much my kind of guide

[2:05]He helped me enormously with the structure of the book and I tried

[2:11]attempted to to write some sort of memoir so many so many times. I can't tell you and

[2:18]Invariably

[2:20]It I just wandered off into the

[2:23]Labyrinth

[2:24]All the swamp of my life and so to have somebody who was helping me keep on

[2:31]Track, you know and follow the narrative and I discovered that there was a narrative and I'd always maintained that our lives were so random

[2:40]That wasn't a narrative, but but there actually is I mean, it doesn't extend its kind of self-imposed

[2:45]But once I got a sense of that then it was much easier to

[2:51]Stay on the you know

[2:53]Straight and narrow

[2:54]Beginning a middle and an end for every chapter. That was a revelation. I didn't realize that that had

[3:00]Well, you couldn't tell I mean, it seemed to sort of seamlessly work

[3:05]Which is great and you wrote in the beginning of the book that one of the

[3:09]Impituses for writing it was discovering this treasure trove that had been saved at Disney tell me about stumbling upon all that

[3:18]That was such a great moment

[3:21]I can't I can't tell you when I went to Disney Studios and I was I was taken to launch by this

[3:27]lovely man Howard Green

[3:29]Who's in charge of a lot of different departments there and

[3:33]Afterwards he said you must come and see Disney's office that we have completely put back together again

[3:40]and this is like 60 years ago and

[3:44]When when Walt Disney walked out of that office to go to the hospital and never came back

[3:52]They for a long time. They just left it as it was

[3:56]and

[3:57]Nothing was touched and then it was all packed up their photograph did

[4:03]You know, my nuclei. It was packed in boxes and stored away for

[4:08]You know 55 60 years and then this wonderful girl Rebecca Klein had the idea to

[4:15]reinstated and as I said in the book and I never thought I would hear myself saying those words

[4:21]As they did in the film saving mr. Banks

[4:24]Only this time it was all his real things his his his private possessions

[4:31]To walk into that office

[4:33]It really it was like a time warp how much

[4:38]We often long to be able to go back in time and pick up that time and see those people and

[4:44]Experience the world as it was when they were alive

[4:47]That's what I got walking into that office

[4:50]It was exactly how he had been there how it was when he was there and even little scribbled notes

[4:57]On his note paper on the note pad

[5:00]And found it a little you know little paper clips and things in ashtrays and he had a little tiny kitchen out

[5:06]Which of course when I was a charter absolutely a door of the little stools and small cupboards behind and they had got in the cupboards

[5:15]1960s food

[5:17]Cereals coca-cola all the things that you would expect to find in the kitchen in 1960s

[5:24]It was I mean, I'm actually getting goose pimples now

[5:29]And then I was allowed to go into the archives and look through

[5:33]all the

[5:35]Files and folders of things to do with my movies

[5:41]And I was astonished

[5:43]The every single thing had been kept every little tiny scrap of paper

[5:48]The office memos letters between

[5:51]Myself and Walt and Walt and Walt and my parents

[5:55]And some of my letters had to be typed out because my writing was up well from nobody could answer

[6:00]Nobody could read it and and I learned some things going through those files

[6:06]And I thought I could

[6:08]You know, this is in a way

[6:10]It's wrong that I keep all this information to myself obviously I go home and I'll tell my family but

[6:18]It might I thought if it's it's wrong. I really have got to write it down

[6:22]I have no confidence in myself as a writer

[6:25]Although I've always wanted to write and I've always written privately you know journals and things like that

[6:31]But not for anybody to look at and at lunch

[6:35]There were some lovely people there just to you know a couple of people that I knew

[6:39]Like Richard Sherman was one of the Sherman brothers and his wife Elizabeth and Richard is now

[6:46]Well, then he was in his late 80s. I believe he's 90 now and still playing the piano and still going strong

[6:53]And Michael Germo

[6:55]And Chris Bach who are two of the creators of frozen two lovely men and at one point Michael turned to me and he said

[7:04]So what was well Disney like and it all went quiet at the table and I suddenly realized

[7:12]But the table was full of people who worked for Disney

[7:15]And besides two other people

[7:18]I was the only one who knew him who had even met him and I knew him at very very well and loved him

[7:26]And that's when I thought my goodness this

[7:30]I can't die. I can't take all this with me. I've got to do it

[7:34]So I went back to my I went home and I said I've got to do this and

[7:39]And my son said you've got to write it now and I said but I can't I I'm not a writer

[7:44]I don't I wouldn't know how to start and he said I will help you

[7:48]And he did

[7:52]So he was my kind of life raft, you know, as I was just about to float off into the sunset

[7:57]Hold me back in so I'm really glad. I've done it really. I think I've done it for myself

[8:02]But I've done it for my children and my grandchildren and also all the other children because what I realized and I'm

[8:10]I'm afraid I've suddenly seemed to have verbal diarrhea

[8:14]Since great keep going

[8:16]You're very good listener, but and I realized that when I was writing it that is actually

[8:22]It's really not so unusual. All right. My childhood was

[8:25]Rather weird and that was unusual, but the things that I went through

[8:30]You know as a result of adolescence

[8:32]Everybody goes through

[8:34]two different degrees and so some of it was

[8:38]Exactivated because you know, I was famous and all that business and I had to

[8:44]Turn up with the studio and the third graph when I was fat covered in sport

[8:49]You know all that kind of thing and so I felt actually more and more as I as I wrote it

[8:55]That it was a very kind of

[8:58]Universal experience, which is really why I stopped it when I did

[9:04]Which is when my children were born, but you got four children, isn't it right?

[9:09]I do I have four children and it would be so neat

[9:12]I was thinking as you were talking

[9:14]For my son one of my sons or my daughter to collaborate on a book project with me when I was

[9:20]You know older. I mean, that must be such a neat experience for the two of you to have together as like a shared

[9:25]Project that's so nice. Yes, you're absolutely right and

[9:30]You know, Chris being is you know, he's in his 40s and he's married and he's got two boys to fantastic boys

[9:38]And so to reconnect with him at this stage in his life

[9:42]And for the turvers to go back

[9:45]To my childhood, which of course affects him too because what happened to me

[9:52]Impacted him and my other son ace

[9:55]And that was really one of the best things about it was

[10:00]the name this time.

[10:01]Sometimes it was just over the phone

[10:03]because we were locked down, but, you know,

[10:07]that was definitely one of the best things

[10:09]of spending this time with Christian

[10:11]and getting to know him again, really.

[10:14]And on a hell of a level.

[10:17]Yeah, it was great.

[10:18]I actually couldn't believe when you got to the end of the book

[10:21]and, well, close to the end and you were like,

[10:24]at that point, I was 28 years old

[10:26]and I was like, oh my gosh,

[10:28]all this happened before she was 28.

[10:30]Like, I couldn't believe how much has happened.

[10:34]Had happened to you starting,

[10:36]I mean, obviously you started acting in accidentally after,

[10:39]you know, that you were playing outside

[10:41]and kind of got discovered

[10:43]because of your dad's involvement,

[10:44]but just the wealth of experience

[10:47]packed into so many years.

[10:48]And I don't know, I'm glad that you did this.

[10:51]And, you know, one of the things that I feel like

[10:53]was really strong in this book

[10:55]was how you created these scenes and sense of place.

[10:58]Like, the way you're talking now about Walt Disney's,

[11:01]you know, studio sort of frozen in time

[11:04]and even how you met him in the Dorchester penthouse

[11:07]and in the book you're like, you can Google this.

[11:09]And I was like, okay, I will.

[11:11]And of course it's a gorgeous.

[11:12]And I'm like, oh, I've got to find a way to stay here.

[11:14]This is like, amazing.

[11:16]I loved it.

[11:19]I think somebody else should pay the bill.

[11:21]Yeah, exactly.

[11:22]I can't, yeah, expensive, you know.

[11:24]I don't know.

[11:25]My podcast networker said they were, yeah.

[11:28]No, but you create all these scenes.

[11:30]So we can really like see you in it

[11:32]and see like you take the reader right there.

[11:35]So I don't know.

[11:36]You, Chris Banna, whoever,

[11:37]you did a really nice job of sort of inserting us

[11:40]into these very unique moments,

[11:42]whether you're dating George Harrison or you're like,

[11:45]you know, even school in your sister.

[11:49]Anyway, it was all great.

[11:50]And there's this quote, if you're welcome

[11:53]from the beginning that I just wanted to read

[11:55]because you are really our beautiful writer.

[11:57]You say to say I went through the looking glass

[11:59]and down the rabbit hole would be putting it mildly.

[12:02]At the age of 12, my life was tipped on its head

[12:04]and I was plunged literally into Wonderland,

[12:07]often feeling very much like Lewis Carroll's

[12:09]bewildered Alice.

[12:10]Perhaps that's just how it is to grow up.

[12:13]One minute you're free and innocent,

[12:15]full of the joys of life.

[12:16]And then suddenly you're struggling

[12:17]to make sense of anything.

[12:19]I had some amazing luck and good fortune,

[12:20]but it all came at a price.

[12:22]The sole purpose of every young girl should be

[12:24]to become a happy, strong and well-adjusted woman.

[12:27]But growing up is tough at the best of times,

[12:29]let alone when a multi-million-dollar career

[12:31]depends on you remaining a child.

[12:33]Writing about it 60 years on,

[12:34]I wonder whether this book is perhaps my first real chance

[12:37]to understand and take ownership of the strange

[12:39]and remarkable things that happened to me

[12:41]and to that girl, young girl,

[12:43]who went through the looking glass.

[12:45]Bravo, right, that sounds great.

[12:49]So looking back, I mean, obviously,

[12:53]your childhood was shifted very dramatically,

[12:57]you know, when you were 13 or 12, 12, 13, 14,

[13:00]when you were then raising your sons,

[13:02]how did you approach that time of life knowing

[13:05]like what you had gone through yourself?

[13:07]Well, of course it was a very different world.

[13:10]And by the time they were on their teams

[13:13]and they were very different people.

[13:17]And of course, unfortunately,

[13:20]they went to boarding school as I did,

[13:22]but I was asked politely or not so politely to leave.

[13:28]And, you know, boys going through adolescence,

[13:30]it happens to them in a rather different way.

[13:35]They were,

[13:36]Chris Bien was very independent

[13:38]right from the very beginning

[13:40]and wanted to go to boarding school.

[13:44]And I didn't want them to go to boarding school.

[13:48]I didn't want either of them to go to boarding school.

[13:50]But I remember he said to me one day, he was telling me,

[13:53]he said, I really, you know,

[13:54]he read too many, you know, Tom Brown School days,

[13:58]kind of books.

[13:59]And he said, I really, I want to go to boarding school,

[14:03]mommy. And I said,

[14:04]darling, you know, it's,

[14:06]he said, it's such fun.

[14:09]And you know, with boys, you know,

[14:11]there's fun in the dorm and all that kind of thing.

[14:13]And I said, but you know, you don't have that much freedom.

[14:16]He said, mommy, you said, I just want to go

[14:18]because it's all out there, mommy.

[14:20]And he flung his arms wide.

[14:23]And so he was always very adventurous.

[14:26]And he always wanted to, you know, climb every mountain.

[14:30]And he wanted to go his own way.

[14:33]I mean, your question was,

[14:35]how did I deal with it?

[14:36]I don't know.

[14:37]I don't know if I dealt with it well or not.

[14:40]I mean, often, no.

[14:42]Okay.

[14:43]It's such a trial and error, isn't it,

[14:46]of being a mother.

[14:47]And this is one of the things about being a grandmother is that,

[14:52]I think I'm a much better grandmother than I was a mother.

[14:56]It's, you know, you can,

[14:58]you sort of rediscover your children again

[15:00]through your grandchildren.

[15:02]Wow.

[15:03]Well, I guess I'll have that to look forward to.

[15:05]Okay, we're gonna get these guys out of here.

[15:08]How old are you, mom?

[15:09]How old are you?

[15:10]I have 14 year old twins, boy girl,

[15:12]and then eight and six.

[15:14]And actually my oldest son is at boarding school also.

[15:17]He begged to go.

[15:18]And I was like devastated,

[15:19]but it's really great for him.

[15:20]So I relate to what you were saying.

[15:22]And of course, big a twin.

[15:24]He wanted that identity.

[15:27]He wanted to be himself,

[15:28]not just one of a pair of twins.

[15:31]How did it affect his sister?

[15:33]Oh, she was thrilled.

[15:35]Right.

[15:37]Maybe that was really healthy for them to, you know,

[15:41]leave their own lives at that point.

[15:42]I think you're right.

[15:43]I think you're right.

[15:44]Yeah. By the way,

[15:45]they're all huge fans of the parent trap

[15:47]and which I've watched like 18 million times original.

[15:50]Oh, sorry about that.

[15:52]You know, one of the things in your book

[15:54]that I kind of,

[15:55]I felt like you were trying to come to terms

[15:58]with your own mother and her sort of unhappiness

[16:02]at different times and her dependence on alcohol

[16:05]at different times and sort of looking back

[16:07]and thinking like, wait, was she an alcoholic?

[16:09]You know, this is what I just thought everybody did.

[16:11]They played tennis and drank and, you know,

[16:13]had cocktails every night.

[16:14]But you know, you kind of touch on the many times

[16:18]sort of throughout your career and your guys' life together

[16:22]of her sort of melancholy

[16:24]and how she was dealing with everything.

[16:26]And how do you think about all of that now?

[16:29]Well, I understand her a lot more

[16:32]as a result of writing this book.

[16:34]And, you know, and that was one of my motivations

[16:40]was to go back and have another look at it

[16:44]and try to understand more about her,

[16:47]more about my dad, more about myself,

[16:49]my sister, my brother.

[16:50]And why we made certain decisions.

[16:53]And, you know, I had to keep repeating myself

[16:58]but I realized that, you know,

[17:00]that my mother was struggling with the effect

[17:03]of her childhood, all her life.

[17:06]And our childhood never really leaves us just as

[17:10]because it is the formative years, you know, Catholics,

[17:14]what the Catholics say, they say, give me a child

[17:17]until the age of seven and you'll never go back

[17:20]to another life.

[17:21]I don't know if that's still true,

[17:22]but it certainly wasn't one point.

[17:24]And, you know, it forms us, our experiences

[17:30]when we're growing up tremendously formative.

[17:33]And so she was definitely struggling

[17:38]with the effect of being sent off to boarding school

[17:43]and her family were living in China

[17:46]and she was sent back to England.

[17:48]And she didn't see them for a long, long periods of time.

[17:52]And she was a highly, you know, very intelligent

[17:55]and also extremely sensitive.

[17:58]You know, with this kind of melancholy,

[18:01]which was probably there anyway.

[18:04]But I think there was, it left her with a deep sense

[18:07]of insecurity and her ambitions had been somewhat

[18:12]thwarted because initially she desperately wanted

[18:16]to be an actress.

[18:17]And she was a good actress.

[18:19]She began to do better and better get better and better roles

[18:24]until she went to New York with a British production.

[18:29]And she was approached by Warner Brothers

[18:32]who wanted to put her on the contract.

[18:35]They said that for that to happen,

[18:37]she would have to agree to have her nose operated on

[18:41]and she didn't want to do that.

[18:43]And it was wartime and she'd already sailed

[18:48]across the Atlantic with a convoy of destroyers,

[18:52]expecting to be torpedoed only minute.

[18:54]Then the play was a flop and she,

[18:57]to her surprise, was absolutely delighted.

[19:00]And it meant that she could go home

[19:02]in Coldplay across the Atlantic.

[19:05]And she decided then what support she realized

[19:08]about what was important and what was important.

[19:10]My career, yes, I could go after Hollywood

[19:13]and become an actress, you know, maybe who knows.

[19:17]Or I can go back to be with a man I love.

[19:21]And he was the love of her life.

[19:23]There's no doubt about it.

[19:25]And, you know, she totally and absolutely adored her father

[19:29]but then when she met Daddy,

[19:32]she transferred all that to my dad.

[19:34]And then she had to see her father who she hero worshipped

[19:38]who was a writer as well as being a soldier,

[19:40]you know, experienced failure and poverty

[19:43]and bankruptcy at the end of his life.

[19:46]And he died in a ministry.

[19:50]He died with a sense of personal failure.

[19:53]And that was unbearable for her.

[19:57]And so she thought that she had that.

[20:00]that fear all her life of that she was going to be a failure.

[20:04]And she always felt deep down that she was a failure.

[20:07]Even though she had an incredibly successful marriage,

[20:11]a man who loved her with all his heart until the day he died,

[20:14]age 97.

[20:16]And she had a number of very successful players.

[20:21]She wrote a number of books, one of which

[20:24]was turned into a film which I did, which

[20:26]became very successful.

[20:28]iconic film called Whistle Down the Wind.

[20:31]And still, she wasn't convinced about her own success.

[20:37]And desperately wanted, I think, the theater really

[20:41]was her first love.

[20:42]And she wanted to do another play, and did write many plays

[20:46]for my dad, but was never able to come up

[20:49]with a successful play as she had done in the beginning.

[20:53]Well, you know, so how many security

[20:55]and that was an enormous motivating thing.

[20:59]And that's why she drank.

[21:01]And when my father wasn't there, when I was alone

[21:05]in Hollywood with her, she didn't handle being on her own well.

[21:09]And you know, it's a extraordinary thing.

[21:11]It wasn't until I was an adult.

[21:14]And I mean, in my 30s, that I realized

[21:20]how genuinely insecure and nervous she was.

[21:24]We were doing a television program called This Is Your Life.

[21:29]And she was brought on.

[21:30]It was for my sisters.

[21:32]She was the victim of This Is Your Life, the program.

[21:36]And my mother was waiting in the wings.

[21:38]And she was ringing her hands.

[21:41]And I'd always thought my mother was killed.

[21:44]She got it all together.

[21:45]All right, she drank.

[21:46]But I thought she was perfect and in charge.

[21:50]And she wasn't.

[21:52]She hit, she hit it.

[21:53]Wow.

[21:54]It's not so very, very long answer,

[21:56]but you're going to have to hit it.

[21:57]No, it was great.

[22:00]I know, I wish we had like so much more time.

[22:02]I had like a thousand questions for you.

[22:04]So if you could give advice to aspiring creatives, right,

[22:09]either people trying to write a book like you just did

[22:12]successfully, or people aspiring to be actresses

[22:16]or, you know, another area in which you've excelled,

[22:19]like what advice would you give them?

[22:21]How would you motivate them or dissuade them

[22:24]from doing the above?

[22:27]Or give them a sense of their empowerment.

[22:31]As I mentioned, I mean, the acting thing kind of fell

[22:35]into my lap.

[22:36]I didn't pursue it.

[22:37]And then what was difficult for me was to maintain it.

[22:41]And eventually as I grew up,

[22:42]became self-conscious throughout the lessons,

[22:45]I questioned it.

[22:48]And then it became agony.

[22:51]It was very difficult to work

[22:53]when I was doubting myself all the time.

[22:56]And that's when I had to go and look at it

[22:58]from a different perspective.

[23:00]And that's when I went into the theater

[23:01]because I could learn.

[23:03]And I think whatever it is you want to do,

[23:06]the more you can learn about it,

[23:08]the more that empowers you, the more you understand

[23:12]what it is you want to do.

[23:13]I've written this book,

[23:15]but I've been thinking about writing for years.

[23:19]And I was always buying little books

[23:20]saying how to write your memoir.

[23:25]And I'd start, I do all the exercises and think, oh God,

[23:28]no, at the point is I didn't really know

[23:31]what I was going to write.

[23:32]I just loved writing.

[23:34]And then I had this marvelous woman

[23:37]who was a nutritionist.

[23:39]I went to talk to her about nutrition.

[23:41]And it turned out that she was also a therapist.

[23:44]So nutrition and therapy, you know, our diets and everything.

[23:49]And all kind of, you know,

[23:51]one and the same in a way.

[23:53]And so I started to talk to her about problems

[23:56]and things and things that I needed to understand

[24:01]about myself.

[24:02]And she said, well, you know what you want to do.

[24:04]You want to buy this wonderful book,

[24:06]which I know you know, called The Artist's Way.

[24:12]Yes, do we Cameron?

[24:14]Should we Cameron?

[24:15]Julian, can we do a Cameron?

[24:18]I started reading this book.

[24:21]And it was like eating at least.

[24:24]It was so wonderful.

[24:27]And the best thing about it was this simple, simple trick

[24:32]of writing your morning pages every day.

[24:36]You write three pages.

[24:38]And what it doesn't matter what it is.

[24:40]It doesn't have to be well written.

[24:41]It doesn't, you're not going to show it to anybody.

[24:44]You probably won't even read it yourself.

[24:46]You just write and I've done it for years.

[24:50]And I'm sure that that was,

[24:53]that kind of encouraged me because to write

[24:57]because when I was doing those morning pages

[25:00]because I wasn't self-conscious about choosing the right word

[25:03]and that sentence looks like, you know,

[25:06]I was just getting it out.

[25:08]It opened a valve.

[25:10]It sort of created the facility

[25:12]for getting my thoughts down on paper.

[25:15]And the best experiences of writing that book

[25:18]was when my thoughts just came.

[25:20]And I wasn't assessing it all the time or judging it.

[25:23]You know, it was just, even if I didn't use it

[25:25]or I changed it, I had a sense that this was authentic.

[25:30]So that I think is a tremendously important,

[25:34]you know, and as far as acting,

[25:36]God, there is so much luck involved with acting.

[25:39]There are so many incredible actors out there

[25:43]that have never had the luck to get put together

[25:46]with the perfect part for them

[25:50]that they can flower and blossom into

[25:54]every single play or film or television show that I do.

[25:58]I'm always humbled by the talent.

[26:02]And, you know, some of them just go on,

[26:07]you know, some make it, some don't make it.

[26:09]But the important thing is that you have to really love it

[26:12]very, very much because it's a terribly hard heartbreaking

[26:16]life in so many ways.

[26:18]And unless you're terribly lucky,

[26:20]you're not gonna get rich because unless you're top

[26:24]of the pile, very few people up there,

[26:28]very few people stay up there.

[26:30]So you really, really have to love it

[26:32]and suffer for your heart.

[26:35]Well, Haley, thank you so much.

[26:38]This has been so fun.

[26:39]I've really been a fan of yours

[26:41]and I truly enjoyed your book.

[26:43]So thank you for taking the time to chat with me today.

[26:46]Thank you, I've really, really enjoyed it.

[26:48]Great day.

[26:49]Take care.

[26:50]Okay, good luck with you.

[26:50]Thank you, thank you.

[26:52]Bye-bye.

[26:53]Bye.

[26:54]Thanks for listening to this episode of Moms Don't Have Time

[26:57]to Read Books.

[26:58]Don't forget to follow me on Instagram,

[27:00]adsubi Owens, and ad moms don't have time to read books.

[27:03]Also sign up for my newsletter adsubi Owens.com

[27:06]and sign up for my virtual book club

[27:08]and meet lots of authors on Zoom every other week.

[27:10]Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan at Texturesound

[27:13]for the Sound Editing.

[27:14]And thank you to Morning Moon Productions

[27:16]for providing this fantastic intro and outro music.