Sara Arnell, THERE WILL BE LOBSTER: Memoir of a Midlife Crisis

[1:09]Zibby Owens: Hi. This is Zoe Owens, and you're listening to the award winning podcast, Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books. I'm also the host of Moms Don't Have Time to Lose Weight, and I'm the editor of the anthology, which you should run out and buy, called Moms Don't Have Time to: Quarantine Anthology. All proceeds of that book go to COVID nineteen Vaccine Research. And I'm the editor in chief of Moms Don't Have Time To Write, a new publication on Medium, and we're accepting submissions, so please send your personal essays there. And if all that isn't enough, you can follow me on Instagram at Zibby Owens and my website is zibbyowens.com. Okay. Now back to this amazing podcast. Sarah Arnell is the author of There Will Be Lobster, Memoir of a Midlife Crisis. While working alongside acclaimed fashion icon Andre Leontally at Vanity Fair magazine in her mid twenties, by the way, Andre Leontally was also on this podcast. You can search back and listen to that. Sarah was offered an opportunity to write a press release for fashion designer Donna Karan. This moment marked the beginning of Sarah's impressive thirty year career in fashion, writing, advertising. Sarah worked as chief strategy officer at one of New York's most renowned and successful advertising agencies, eventually rising to CEO. Today, Sarah is a professor at The New School's Parsons School of Design and continues to consult with the world's top brands on marketing strategy and brand design. Sarah has a BA from Skidmore College and an MFA from Sarah Lawrence College. She is the mother of three children and one small poodle. Welcome, Sarah. Thanks so much for coming on Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books to discuss There Will Memoir of a Midlife Crisis. Thank you so much for having me, Zibby. I am thrilled to be here. Oh, it's such a pleasure for me. Memoir of a Midlife Crisis. I feel like I was just saying this to my husband yesterday. Like, I feel like I didn't identify as middle aged until

[2:53]Sara Arnell: now. Like I fought it from my early forties and now I'm just like, okay, I've accepted it and now I'm embracing it. When did you feel like Did you feel like that happened or what? I mean, I felt it. I felt like wasn't happy with the way my body looked. I was having hot flashes that were out of control. So midlife crisis to me was more of a life stage. It came at that time of life where everything's changing for you. Like your kids are leaving home, your work is looking differently, your body is changing and not in a good way.

[3:25]Zibby Owens: And so that's sort of what identified it for me. Yeah, that's true. Actually, I should have said the person we were having dinner with responded by saying, I felt like I knew I was in middle age when every morning a different body part would hurt me. Exactly. Which I also completely relate to, you know. Well, tell listeners about what your book is about and when you knew you wanted to write a book. I know you've had a storied career in advertising as well and, you know, so much stuff, but when did you know you wanted to write a book? Did you always know you wanted to write a book? That was like 10 questions. So, you know. No. So I didn't really ever have an intention of writing a book, but at a certain point where I went through this and the book is about this really hard period of my life, like a really difficult,

[4:09]Sara Arnell: probably four years or so in my life that were hard to manage. And I suddenly felt like, and maybe it was the pandemic that caused it with everybody sitting inside and talking a lot about how they were feeling. I started to feel that I needed to take responsibility for that journey that I went on. And I actually wanted to really put it out there in the world to give meaning to the pain and give meaning to the growth that came from the pain. And for me, was about sort of why I wanted to write the book. Because when you take responsibility for your own actions, you also take responsibility for the other people in your life that your actions kind of affected.

[4:49]Zibby Owens: So that's really what I wanted to do. And it was a healing process for me. Now that it's done and out there, are you like nervous about that? Or you feel okay with it? Like, what is your feeling now that you got it all out?

[5:02]Sara Arnell: Well, I got it all out and I put everything out. And yeah, so I'm definitely nervous because I tell some stories that they're not things to be proud of, but at the same time, I don't want them to shame me anymore. So I'm trying to think about this thing that I did, this thing that I put out into the world as something for self empowerment, not shame. That's what I hope other people will see too,

[5:31]Zibby Owens: hopefully. There's some famous quote or someone said it on my podcast the other day, something like, Good writing is the secrets you don't wanna tell and great writing is the secrets that you don't even admit to yourself or something like that. I have to look it up, but I don't know. It's like along these lines, right? The more you Yeah. Share, you I get it. And then I spent my career in advertising,

[5:55]Sara Arnell: So I got really, really, really good at like putting that facade. In advertising, you never tell the whole story. You only tell what you want people to hear about your brand or your product and what attributes you wanna focus on and benefits you wanna focus on. And I kind of think I did that to myself. I sort of just put on my advertising hat and kind of went out there in the world and hid behind this facade. And I thought it was time to just strip it away. We are in the age of transparency now. So even I was like, I need to sort of do that to me right now. I need to get transparent with everything I went through and I wasn't going to hold back. And for me, I think one of the secrets of writing, and if I ever had to give any advice to writers is bring it. Do not hold back. Don't hold back because you think you're gonna save it for another book. No, don't hold back because you think you're gonna be embarrassed. You won't, you'll feel liberated. There's a million reasons why you shouldn't hold back. You'll be empowered. Self empowerment is an incredible thing you get from honestly and openly telling your story.

[7:03]Zibby Owens: Great. Well, good. I won't ask you that at the end then. Thank you. I wanted to read a passage from here, which is great, if you don't mind. So you write, I was beginning to disappear into my own head. I wanted to cover all my mirrors with black cloth and stop the clocks. I wanted to mourn the passing of the self I used to be. I promised myself that in the future, when someone told me they were depressed or sad, I would never say the words cheer up. I couldn't think of a more useless and unhelpful suggestion. I was sick of hearing it. I felt ashamed for all of my own past lackluster efforts the way I'd always deflected requests for help or advice from someone who was feeling down. I had been ignorant to the realities of depression and sorry for anyone that had ever come to me for assistance. I was unsympathetic and cold. I didn't get it. I wished I could go back in time knowing what I do now, knowing how I feel now, knowing that I could never cheer up just because someone told me to. I had no reason or motivation to do anything except look in the mirror and gasp at what I had let myself become, or rather what I would not let myself become. I didn't think I deserved happiness or joy or contentment. I could not cheer up.

[8:11]Sara Arnell: Oh. No.

[8:15]Zibby Owens: So tell me a little bit about how you felt sort of like at your low point and also what you've learned in that now you know what to say to other people. What can we all do when other people we all love and care about are going through things in a similar something similar? Yeah.

[8:34]Sara Arnell: Well, you know, how many times have you said to even I mean, I've said it to my children, Oh, cheer up, you'll be fine. Oh, put on a happy face and get out there. And sometimes like there's sadness and there's depression and they're really different. And you have to really pay attention to the differentiation. If somebody is just upset about something that happened, then sure, maybe you can give them that advice. Oh, you know what, cheer up, get over it, whatever you wanna say to them. But if it's not just sort of an incident that occurred that just has an annoy and this pervasive feeling of loss and low self esteem and loneliness, and people are coming to you to ask you, how do I feel better? Not how do I solve this incident that happened? Then it's really something to really think about in terms of giving them sort of the space they need to talk to you about their feelings and not just rushing it off and say, oh, just go away and cheer up because it won't help anyone. It's actually way too dismissive for somebody that needs that kind of help. And it was really hard for me because I realized that in myself that I did that to other people. And I also realized that other people had done it to me as well. So it was a real realization that it was this thing out there that people didn't fully understand what depression looked like. And it looks different for everybody, right? So it's not really easy to kind of pinpoint.

[10:04]Zibby Owens: Very true. Listening helps, really listening to someone. How do your kids feel about this book?

[10:13]Sara Arnell: Well, their names are not mentioned, as you notice. So they were happy to participate, but at a bit of an arm's length. They're completely supportive of it. So they really have all read it and looked at it. They know every story that I tell about them in it, where it kind of links to my life. And it's funny because I had said to my daughter the other day, gosh, I'm not sure I ever realized I was going through a midlife crisis until I wrote the book. And she just looked at me and said, well, you're the only one who did it then. I was just like, okay. So they really were part and parcel involved in every step of the way of the writing of this book. Wow.

[11:00]Zibby Owens: So what's like the PS or what happened between the book ending and now? Like, what's the conclusion?

[11:09]Sara Arnell: So the conclusion is you've got everything you need inside you to make the change that you want. I think my book in essence is about change. What to change, can you change, how to change? Do you even know what you need to change? And that any kind of external search, I felt like I was always out there searching for something. And what I really finally realized at the end was when I tell the story about the former Buddhist monk that I met, who said, when I asked him how he left the monk hood, he said, I just took off my robe and walked away. And for me, that was a decision he made. So I think that change starts with sort of a decision and realizing that you have it inside you to change how you see things, change your perspective on things, be more present with yourself in the moment, and then the things around you start to change.

[12:03]Zibby Owens: So what about if someone's feeling like they're in this place right now? Not the depression necessarily, but just like, I mean, there's so many of us out there. Like, what are we doing with our lives? Like, this is such an interesting life stage, which you hit on so well in the book. And like, it's an intersection of all these different things, starting and ending and identity and, you know, everything is like thrown up in the air. Like we're taking a basket of popcorn and like, whoosh, there's like, you know, we're waiting for it all to fly back down and hit us. Know? I don't know. If you looked back, could you have done it any differently? What would you have done differently? I don't know. Not that you have to be some sort of sage, you know, expert on this topic, but Today's episode is sponsored by Quince. Summer always makes me rethink what I'm reaching for every day. Lighter fabrics, better materials, pieces that just feel good the moment you put them on and look effortless. That's why I keep coming back to Quince. They focus on high quality essentials. Think breathable linen, soft organic cotton, washable silk, but without the luxury markup. It's that rare balance where everything feels elevated but still easy. Quince has beautiful everyday pieces like 100% European linen pants, dresses, and tops with styles starting at $32. Their denim is soft and easy to wear. I wear my jean jacket all the time. And their organic cotton sweaters are perfect for layering on cool summer nights. Everything at Quince is priced 50 to 80% less than similar brands. Quince works directly with ethical factories and cuts out the middlemen, so you're paying for quality, not brand markup. And it's not just clothing. Quince has really become a destination for elevated essentials across home, kitchen, bedding, and beyond, making it easy to bring a more premium feel into everyday life. In addition to my jean jacket, I recently got a white tank top dress with a beautiful cotton skirt that is absolutely gorgeous, and I can't wait for it to be warm enough so I can wear it every day, but it has been a cool spring. Elevate your summer wardrobe. Go to quince.com/zippy for free shipping on your order and three hundred and sixty five day returns. Now available in Canada too. That's quince.com/zippy for free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com/zibby.

[15:35]Sara Arnell: Well, you know, I had made such a mess in my life. You know, I I didn't have a job anymore. My youngest child was leaving for college. I didn't feel the way I wanted to feel. I didn't look the way I wanted to look, and I became really obsessed with, you know, being young seeming. And I really think that was a little bit of my downfall. I mean, to the point where I party one New Year's Eve all night with my son and his The

[16:00]Zibby Owens: opening chapter. I know.

[16:02]Sara Arnell: Would not do that again. But it was this sort of pressure I felt to feel vital and vibrant and useful. And a lot of that came with wanting to feel young and just we're such a visually driven world sometimes that I think it just, and I came from the world of media and advertising, and I really think I got in my own

[16:22]Zibby Owens: way. So tell me a little more about the process of writing this book and how long it took and where you were when you wrote it and all of that, and then how it became a published book, like the publication journey.

[16:34]Sara Arnell: So I was reading a lot. I always when I write, I always read. So I started reading books and I was reading fiction and I have my MFA in fiction, not memoir. So I read a ton of fiction. I love the dialogue. I love the sort of pace of fiction. But then I also started reading like Joan Didion and The Year of Magical Thinking. And was just wanting to finally, and COVID was again, a time of real self reflection for me as well as so many other people. And I just said, I'm gonna just tell the story that I went through and maybe somebody can relate to it. So I actually offer no advice at all in the books, but in a way it can still be a bit of a self help book. There's no tips and there's no tricks and there's none of that. But if you can relate to some of the things I did or some of the ways I was feeling and some of the stories I'm telling, then maybe you can garner something from that and not feel so alone or feel like you can do what you need to do to get back on track or get some sense of sort of help and hope from this book. So in me, I kind of approached it from the point of view of gonna be my story kind of in a self help book, it's a self help book disguised as story and anecdote in a way. I don't know that makes sense to you. So yeah, so that's how I did it. And I sat down and I wrote and I read and I read and I read this great book called The Perfect Nanny. I'm sure you've read it. Yeah, I

[18:09]Zibby Owens: actually haven't. I shouldn't admit that, but yes, I own it. I bought it, but I never ended up reading it and I should get back to it. Well, the opening line is a tough one. The opening line of the book is the baby is dead.

[18:23]Sara Arnell: And I was just like, oh, like we don't have to wait to get to the tragedy. And so that was one of the things that actually really inspired me. I'm gonna start my book with the trauma, with the event that really caused me to just wake up and have to change. So I took inspiration from what I was reading and I just tried to structure the story more in a way of how you kind of go through life where you do something and then you think of something that happened in the past. So I'll jump back in time a little because it's living in my mind and it's sort of influencing the present. And then we'll go about the day a little bit more and something else will come to me and I'll write about it. So it's very much, I think of an internal dialogue with myself.

[19:09]Zibby Owens: Interesting. Tell me about it being published.

[19:13]Sara Arnell: So I finished it during the pandemic and sent it to, I wrote the book and I finished the, had a great first draft of a manuscript, I thought. And I sent it to an agent who sent it around and a publisher said, yeah, let's do it. And that was it. Alright.

[19:32]Zibby Owens: So what is your plan in life now, personal and professional? So personal,

[19:40]Sara Arnell: I am Well, I still work advertising, but just, I do a lot of consulting. So I keep really busy and I keep very current in the field. I teach at Parsons at The New School and I teach marketing and branding and advertising, which I love because I love the students and I love working with them and understanding how they consume media and how they get their information and then disseminate it into the world. So I'm definitely continuing to teach and you know, maybe I have another book in me soon, but I really not fully sure what. But if it's not a book, I'm always writing. Like, I'm writing articles. I'm writing essay. I'm sitting down every day to continue to write. And what do you like to read? Right now, I'm reading animal. Uh-huh. So good. Which is great. It's intense. Very intense. And she's an advertising, which is sort of like great. And I was also reading the book by, I mean, I'm about to get the title right, Nancy Jo Sales book, My Secret Life. Oh, yeah, Dating app. Very, very, very funny. So those are the two that I'm reading right now.

[20:46]Zibby Owens: Excellent.

[20:47]Sara Arnell: Great.

[20:48]Zibby Owens: Okay. Well, I know you've given a lot of advice on a lot of different topics, I'm sorry for continuing to ask. I don't know if I'm qualified, but That's I'm okay. I like it. Actually, I'm curious about what the people in your class and their media consumption has taught you about, like, how best to leverage social media, you know, as an author and how to use, you know, because obviously being an author is an exercise in marketing in and of itself. And advertising a book, you know, that's your product. What insights do you have there? What has your experience been? Or what can you you know what I mean? Well, they're skeptical.

[21:24]Sara Arnell: They're completely skeptical of advertising. And most of the time they have an ad blocker on and they block it. So it gets a little challenging teaching a class called advertising and contemporary culture when your entire student classroom doesn't watch, like, or participate in advertising. So what it actually really teaches you is that you have to bring them what you want them to see and what you want them to pay attention to. You have to bring it to them in the world of media that they're participating in. And it's social media. A lot of them are on sites like Reddit. They love a site like that. They will pay attention to an ad if it's served to them, if somehow it's made relevant to them and it's not too hard of a sell. So between reaching them in the media that they're consuming and giving them the message that they're willing to listen to, it's a slog and that's how you do it.

[22:19]Zibby Owens: Interesting. Wow. Reaching the right people. But the thing is advertising is a service when it gives you what you are looking for. Right? Like it can Yes. Be So anyway, I'm like fascinated. I used to be in marketing and advertising and I don't know. It's really fun and great. It's really fun.

[22:37]Sara Arnell: It's really changing though. You have to really just be so agile in order to really kind of be aware of all the new platforms that are emerging and how those platforms are working. There's some platforms that you don't necessarily have to participate in all of them. Right. If you don't feel like they vibe with you or they're right for you. Like I am not on TikTok, although I watch it constantly. I have decided it's just not for me to start posting on it, at least not yet. And so but I'm aware of of of all that stuff and how it's being used. Interesting.

[23:11]Zibby Owens: Alright. Awesome. Well, Sarah, thank you. Thanks for coming on. Thanks for talking about There Will Be Lobster. Thanks for being, like, just so open in this book about what it's really like and what it was like for you, especially during some really awful parts of your life and everything. So anyway, thanks for thanks for all of it. Well, for letting me chat about it all. I really appreciate it. No problem. All right. Take care. Thank you, Zibby. Okay. Bye, sir.

[23:50]Zibby Owens: and sign up for my virtual book club and meet lots of authors on Zoom every other week. Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan at Texture Sound for the sound editing, and thank you to Morning Moon Productions for providing this fantastic intro and outro music.