Anna Qu, MADE IN CHINA: A Memoir of Love and Labor

[1:47]Zibby Owens: This is Zippy Owens and you're listening to the award winning podcast, Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books. I'm also the host of Moms Don't Have Time to Lose Weight, and I'm the editor of the anthology, which you should run out and buy, called Moms Don't Have Time to A Quarantine Anthology. All proceeds of that book go to COVID nineteen Vaccine Research. And I'm the editor in chief of Moms Don't Have Time to Write, a New Publication on Medium, and we're accepting submissions, so please send your personal essays there. And if all that isn't enough, you can follow me on Instagram at Zibby Owens, and my website is zibbyowens.com. Okay. Now back to this amazing podcast. Anna Q is the author of Made in China, a Memoir of Love and Labor. Anna is a Chinese American writer whose work has appeared in The Threepenny Review, Lumina, Cardica Review, Quelley Journal Volume One, Brooklyn and elsewhere. She holds an MFA from Sarah Lawrence College and lives in Brooklyn. This is her first book. Welcome, Anna. Thank you so much for coming on Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books to discuss Made in China, a Memoir of Love and Labor. Hi, Zvi. Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited. This is my first podcast interview. Yeah. I feel like publicists put me first for a lot of authors because it's like very like a gentle, warm, gentle, you know, introduction or something. That's great. I like that. So everybody else will ask you this as well. So you might as well have a good answer ready.

[3:15]Anna Qu: But what is your book about? Thank you for asking. Well, Made in China, Memoir of Love and Neighbor is my first book. It's a memoir. And, you know, it really centers around one single moment. And it's the perceived betrayal of calling child services on my family after they put me to work at their sweatshop in Queens, New York. And so the book opens in the factory and then we sort of figure out how I got there. And then the second half of the book really centers around when I write to child services for their records

[3:56]Zibby Owens: and, you know, what happens once I find those records. Wow. Well, your book was beautiful. I love the way you write because it's not like, you don't like waste words, right? There's no like unnecessary flourishes. And yet it's still literary and beautiful. And it really puts you right in all of these situations, right? Whether you're running around barefoot in your neighborhood in China before you moved, or you're, you know, in college, like, trying to making the phone call. Like, all these moments are so clear. And I think that's where the best writing comes, right? When you can just like completely put yourself in, but you're not totally distracted by the language. So anyway.

[4:36]Anna Qu: Yeah, thank you. Yeah, that was sort of, you know, I that's actually been a huge goal of mine to really, you know, allow the language to tell the story. And I also spent a lot of time, I think, working on it. So it wasn't as sentimental as it maybe originally started out to be. Interesting.

[4:56]Zibby Owens: I just wanted to read an example. There are a couple passages that were like I mean, they're all really great, but let me read this one. It says, okay, It is not my rage, but my mother's that hits me sometimes, an inheritance that the women in my family bear each day. We swallow parts of ourselves, instinctively neutralizing ourselves to fit the mold society has put us in. We are working women, women whose stories hold little value, women whose stories are not believed, women whose stories do not matter. All three generations of my family, starting with my grandmother, and probably going back further than that, were taught to be daughters, child bearers, caregivers, and laborers. Women born to carry more than their weight. Untethered anger stirs in all of us and eventually becomes a tight ball of bitterness and resentment handed down generation after generation. A rage that hides the fear of being forgotten, of being less than, of being obsolete. I can tell the weight isn't solely mine way I can tell when someone having a bad day suddenly snaps and transfers their mood to me. When it comes, it's a tidal wave and the impact takes out everything in its path. Wow. So great. Oh my gosh. I mean, also, like your mother's rage and your mother's moods and her parenting have I mean, that's something that, as you admit in the book, you have to wrestle with like every day. And that has affected all of your relationships going forward, especially the fact that you had these two half siblings who got completely different treatment. Tell me more about that. Yeah. You know, I think one of the hardest things for me as a child was really

[6:31]Anna Qu: witnessing how much they were treated differently, better. So I, you know, I couldn't do better than them in school. They had an allowance when I didn't. And then, you know, it was just also became very complex. So, you know, when my stepfather had business meetings where the entire family was invited, I was often left out. And what that meant was like everything around it, right? So obviously, mom going and shopping and buying them outfits for this set event, and then the preparation, and then, you know, them leaving in the car, and I'm just staying, I'm just kind of hanging out alone in the house. And, you know, it was really hard to watch that to know that there was this other side of my family that I just could not access. And yet, I, you know, I think as a young child, luckily I was raised by my grandparents, I knew that I deserved a love and I knew what love was. And so, you know, part of the reason I fought so hard when I was young and I, you know, maybe in a lot of ways, escalating the situation myself was because I wanted something that just did not belong to me and I just didn't understand why.

[7:53]Zibby Owens: I'm so sorry that this happened. I wanted to, like, you know, go back in your story and and have you just stay with your grandparents, you know, all the I mean Yeah. And even, like, your the moment with this one particularly intimate moment with your stepfather and and what happened when you tried to talk about it and the reaction of your whole extended family and, you know, and then he's still your stepfather. I mean, what do you do with something like that?

[8:20]Anna Qu: Yeah. Actually, my perspective on my stepfather has really changed since I started writing this book. Because as a child, you know, I didn't see any cruelty come from him in any way. And so all I wanted was his love. Like, all I pined for was his attention. But it, you know, again, that was something my mother made very clear was not mine. So in my child's eye, he could do no wrong. And so I, you know, if I had a savior, it would have been him. But, you know, really writing, spending so much time working on this book, I'm really thinking about how, I mean, this conversation is so, I think relevant, but just complacency, right, of just a parent who allows their partner to abuse their child. And, you know, and also really questioning how good that person really is and, you know, what their responsibilities are. So I think his, just the way I write his character really changed. And I'm sure no one who knows him would be happy with how I wrote him. But I think from my perspective, it was you know, I think a lot of this book is about responsibility. So I felt like I had to also point to that as well. Interesting.

[9:48]Zibby Owens: Wow. Yeah. When you look back on those conversations you had with Mrs. V, I think that's what you called her, who's the one who eventually sort of interfered inter that's not the wrong word, intervened on your behalf and helped call child services and all of that, what do you make of that whole situation? Like, because it so easily could have not happened, right? Like, you and you could have just stayed and all of that. Like, are you in touch with like, what is the what's the ending of the story? What do you think about it when you you know, all the time you've had to process for writing this book and everything?

[10:20]Anna Qu: Yeah. I actually tried to find her as I was writing the book and to thank her. So I actually called the school a couple of times, and I sent a couple of emails. And from what I understand, she's no longer working. I think she's retired. And it was really funny because I think the person on the phone or email was just kind of like, I'm sure she knows that you're grateful. And I was like, okay, yes, thanks. So yeah, I mean, would love to have just spoken to her as an adult to kind of get a sense of what she remembered and how she remembers it. Maybe when maybe she'll find this book in a bookstore and have this big connection. There'll be big- Yeah, that would be amazing. If that happens, you have to post it and then like tag me in the back so

[11:08]Zibby Owens: I know or something. Because I'm like, I would really love to hear if that happens.

[11:12]Anna Qu: Maybe she's listening to this podcast. Maybe she's listening.

[11:16]Zibby Owens: Wow. That would be amazing. That would be amazing.

[11:19]Anna Qu: Yeah. I mean, she, I think, and the social worker that the bilingual social worker, Mary, in this book really changed my life. And it's so funny because I think it was just, perhaps it was just another day for both of them, but it was just such a colossal, you know, massive change for me. And yeah, and even the person that helped me become financially independent in college so that I could go to college. I remember him and I just remember crying hysterically after because I was just so happy that that this was happening. And it even in that moment, like, I knew. I knew that I was able to get Mary to sign this letter, and I was going to college because I'd called child services on my family. And so even that, you know, it just got really complicated. And I had a sense of what I had done for myself. And I always believed that, you know, one of the bravest things I ever did was call child services on my family because it really changed my life. But that also meant when I received the records from child services, I was so devastated. I it just felt like a truck hit me. And I had just been living alive for the last, you know, I think at that point, was over fifteen years. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. And are you in touch with so the grandparents are your mom's parents, right? Yeah, I'm not in touch with really anyone from my father's side. And that gets also pretty complicated. My mother was really angry with them. After my father died, they didn't really help her very much. So when she remarried, she just cut us off from them. And I actually found them again relatively recent through 23andMe of all things. So there's some sort of relationship now, but it's, you know, I don't even have a relationship with my mother right now. So it's yeah. Yeah.

[13:29]Zibby Owens: Do you have family ties? Do you feel good about anyone, like, in your family? I know you had gone back. Well, you tell me. Like, do you have do you have support? Are you okay? Like, do you have like, where's your emotional support coming from?

[13:44]Anna Qu: I am okay. I don't have family support. I don't have emotional support for my family in pretty much any way. I don't have financial support for my family in any way. And, you know, that's been a really hard, really devastating part of the process for me. And I think, you know, writing this book has, I can't say that it's made it worse, but I think it's allowed them to have a reason not to, you know, be in touch with me or not to sort of be more understanding about where I'm coming from. But I'm not, you know, I, this is, I've lived this life for thirty seven years now. So I also know that if I didn't write this book, nothing would change. It's not, the book doesn't change anything. So, yeah, I mean, I really I haven't seen my mother since before twenty fifteen. I often wonder how she's doing and how she's aging. And she's she's actually really close. I'm in Brooklyn, and I'm in Park Slope and she's in Whitestone, Queens. But yeah, you know, I just there's just so there's just something we can't bridge with one another. And, you know, if I had to point to it and say what it was, I would say it's that she never put me as a priority in her life. And she continues to be firm about where that is, where my placement is in her life. So that's very difficult for me, just to consistently be treated so differently from my other siblings. And luckily, I'm in a place in my life where, you know, I am so very fortunate to have, you know, grown up here, to have been able to get an education, go to college, go to grad school. Because without it, you know, I would have been dependent on her. And if I didn't call child services, I don't know what my life would have been like. I think I would, it's possible that I would have kept working at the factory and it's possible that, you know, I would never have gotten to where I am today. Today's episode is sponsored by Quince.

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[17:36]Anna Qu: Yeah. Because a lot of the freedom at that time when I was 15, 16, you know, I wasn't allowed to go over at a friend's house. My friends weren't able to visit me. I, you know, I could never go out. And all I did was like home, factory school. And after Mary got involved, she, you know, she loosened her very tight hold on me. So that was, was great. Like she, I stopped working at the factory. Mary also knew a lot more. It was also really difficult to navigate. So, I mean, I am an immigrant, but my parents are also immigrants. I'm the first child. So they didn't really didn't know a lot of things. So for example, I didn't even know I could get a part time job. But there was a part time job posting at my high school. And it was Mary who told me to go and look. And that's how I found my first job in the real world. But that really, you know, that allowed me freedom. And Mary convinced my mother to allow me to keep the money I earned for the very first time. She encouraged her to come with me to a local bank and open up an account so that I could start saving that money. Like, those were just huge milestones that I could not have been able to just get out of my mother on my own. It had to be a third person. But it's really, you know, because of all of that, that really, you know, I am where I am today. Wow. And what about your relationship with your half siblings, Chili and Henry? Yeah, I don't have much of a relationship with them. And actually, was very, very kind of thinking about writing about it, but I haven't. But my brother got married a couple of years ago and I wasn't invited to the wedding. So that was really devastating to find out from, no, not my immediate family. And then I tried to send gifts and my and I texted my brother. And both my siblings don't really respond to me. But he ended up responding. And I said, wanted to send him a gift. Could you send me his address? And he wouldn't even give me his address. He gave me my parents' address. And I was like, are you still living at home? And he said, yes, but I know that that's not true. So, you know, he didn't even want to give me his address so I could send a gift for his wedding. Yeah. And then, you know, they got pregnant, had a kid. And again, it's just, you know, I asked a very simple question, you know, is it a boy or a girl? And I was like, Oh, it's a boy. I'm like, What's his name? And, you know, they wouldn't tell me his name.

[20:26]Zibby Owens: Yeah. Am so sorry. I don't know in what planet they feel like this is okay or how they rationalize it to themselves. It is so cruel and terrible. And I am just so sorry that this is the family you were born into. And I am glad you've been able to find some way to process and that you're sharing your story with the rest of the world. But it's just really heartbreaking.

[20:52]Anna Qu: Yeah, it is. Yeah, and I actually, you know, there's so much that was left out of the book. And I'm so conscious of sort of the cycle of trauma that it was really important to me that I didn't relay that trauma to the readers as well. So, you know, I really thought about what needs to go in the book. And there, there's, you know, there's a lot of things that didn't go into the book because didn't think it served the story. And I didn't want to overwhelm the book with the sort of abuse that I had to deal with. And that wasn't, you know, why I wrote the book.

[21:32]Zibby Owens: So, yeah. Was there something particularly awful that you didn't want to put in that you want to tell me? You don't have to tell me?

[21:41]Anna Qu: No. I think there's just, you know, actually, I read the foreword for Autobiography of a Face and which is one of my favorite books. And I remember Lucy Greery,

[21:52]Zibby Owens: is the author. That was so good, by the way.

[21:54]Anna Qu: Yes. So good. Oh my god. Yeah. And she, you know, she talks about protecting the reader and not having to share the worst thing that happened to you to be able to tell a story. And I'm a firm believer in that. So yes, a lot of the choices to keep this book balanced was an effort. You know, the tender moments in this book took me a long time to sort of find and flesh out. I think the two key moments are, you know, when my mother comes to the first graduation, to my first graduation, and it happens to be grad school. She had never come to a single graduation before. But she came and it was like she was standing up for me. Like this was, you know, her fighting the world for me. And there's just so much distance between us. It's really, really difficult. So I know she feels like the victim in a lot of ways. And I think my they feel like they're protecting themselves from me in a lot of ways. And, you know, I there's not really any way around that. I don't really have any other family. So this is sort of what I've got. Wow,

[23:14]Zibby Owens: it's just amazing. So do you have, like, there must have been someone or maybe not who was some sort of external mentor to you? Or like, well, how did you end up getting the guy like, how did you end up I know you went to grad school and got an MFA and all that. Like, did when did it when did you know that that the writing would be some sort of salvation to you? And did you have some teacher or somebody who was like, You're really good at this, or Keep going, or anyone who you're like, Thank you so much. Here's the book. Or, you know, is there anyone like that? Or are you just, like, totally renegade,

[23:46]Anna Qu: you know, on your own doing it? Yeah, I actually have never thought I was a very good writer. And no instructor, no professor has ever told me that, actually. What? Yeah. You know, it's all the story and writing this has always felt like a vocation. It didn't really, like, I did try to run away from it. I didn't really want to be a writer just because I needed financial support. And it's just, you know, something that I really struggle with having left home at 17, 18. And so, you know, my sense of stability was really so centered around being able to provide for myself, which is also why I thought it, you know, really works to have labor in this book and how our identities are so close to, you know, our place in our family and then our place in where we end up with work as well and the dynamics there. Yeah, But yeah, I mean, I was I went to Binghamton for undergrad because it was the best school for the cheapest price that I could go. And grad school was a huge gift to myself. I wanted to be confident. I wanted to know about craft. I wanted to learn. I wanted to become a writer. And I've always struggled with it. You know, English isn't my first language. I still make grammatical mistakes all the time. I don't know why, but I do. And yeah, yeah, unless something really affects me and I can't let it go, I don't usually write about it. And now, now, you know, with the book coming out, I'm really hoping that I could change the way I work. I'm trying to get into teaching full time. So we'll see. But I'm really excited about this new path. I think it's going to be much better for me than being an office manager at some startup where I break down 25 boxes in a day and put out snacks. And I'm like, oh, I think a monkey could do this.

[25:59]Zibby Owens: Have you been in touch at all, or do you have any events planned with Jean Kwok who wrote Searching for Sylvie Lee? Can I I'm gonna introduce you after that? That she's amazing. She's a bestselling author. She actually lives in The Netherlands right now because she married somebody from there. But her book is set in Queens. She's Wow. It's an immigrant story. Her parents worked at the dry cleaner. It's fiction, but it's based on her life. And I think and she's a little bit older. Well, maybe not. Anyway, I think you guys should talk. I think she should moderate an event for you or something if you have something coming up. I hope you yeah. That would be cool. Maybe through your publicist. You could send me your email or something like that, and I'll connect the two of you. Because she contributed to my anthology, and I just adore her. Oh, amazing. Feel like she would be a good I feel like you need a role model, like a mentor. Like, I feel like I wanna give you a guide or somebody to help. Not that you need it, and maybe that's maybe it's too, like, mothering of an instinct of me, but I don't know. I want to, like, give you a hug and, like, have somebody tell you that, like, you're not alone. Know, you're it's amazing what you've been able to do. And this book is fantastic, and I really hope that tons of people read it and learn your story and that you feel that the outpouring of affection and goodwill

[27:18]Anna Qu: and all of that that comes from what the readers will undoubtedly feel after reading. So Yeah. Hope so. I you know, when I was working on this book, I held it so close to my chest before I sent it out to, you know, agents. Maybe two of my friends had read it. Like, no one had read it. And so, you know, I worked on it for almost ten years. And I just wanted it to be mine. And I didn't want to think about the readers. And I didn't want to think about, you know, editing it to anybody else's feedback. But now it's really exciting to see it reach the world. This is a story that not a lot of people know about. I don't talk about it. You know, I think it's part of the assimilation. And I think there's some shame around it as well. Just I've never felt like I could really talk about what was happening at home, even with other Asian friends. And so that was always difficult for me. And, you know, when you're young and you're, you know, in college, the kids didn't know what to do. They they couldn't really help me. They they didn't know how to deal with it. So yeah. Wow. Yeah. Well, what advice would you have for aspiring authors? Oh, that's a great question. I would say keep working on what you're working on until you get it right. And it's a very long process, and, you know, it takes years. And also know that that's part of the best process when you're working on it alone before other people get involved in your book, before readers get to read it too. Excellent.

[28:59]Zibby Owens: Okay. Well, Anna, thank you so much, and we'll stay in touch, and I'll put you guys together. And I'm really, like, so rooting for you here when this book comes out. So so much. This has been so great. Okay. Bye, Sophie. Bye. Congrats on doing your first interview. See? Not so bad, right?

[29:16]Anna Qu: It went great. I didn't cry.

[29:19]Zibby Owens: Excellent. Excellent. Check plus. Yeah. Bye.

[29:45]Zibby Owens: and thank you to Morning Moon Productions for providing this fantastic intro and outro music.