Leslie A. Rasmussen, AFTER HAPPILY EVER AFTER: A Novel

[2:07]Zibby Owens: This is Zippy Owens, and you're listening to the award winning podcast, Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books. I'm also the host of Moms Don't Have Time to Lose Weight, and I'm the editor of the anthology, which you should run out and buy, called Moms Don't Have Time to: A Quarantine Anthology. All proceeds of that book go to COVID nineteen Vaccine Research. And I'm the editor in chief of Moms Don't Have Time to Write, a new publication on Medium, and we're accepting submissions so please send your personal essays there. And if all that isn't enough, you can follow me on Instagram at Zibby Owens and my website is zibbyowens.com. Okay, now back to this amazing podcast. Leslie A. Rasmussen is the author of After Happily Ever After. Leslie was born and raised in Los Angeles and graduated with a bachelor's in communications from UCLA and went on to write TV comedies for Gerald McRaney, Burt Reynolds, Roseanne Barr, Norm Macdonald, Drew Carey, and Ralph Macchio, as well as the Wild Thornberrys and Sweet Valley High. Later, she earned a master's degree in nutrition and ran her own business for ten years. Most recently, Leslie has written personal essays for online magazines such as Huffington Post, Marie Shriver, and She Knows. She loves dogs. And besides having two adorable Labradors, she volunteers at the Burbank Animal Shelter in Burbank. Leslie lives in Los Angeles and has two sons and a husband she's been with since college. After, Happily Ever After is her debut novel. Welcome, Leslie. I'm so happy to have you on Mom's Turn. I have time to read books to discuss

[3:32]Leslie A. Rasmussen: After Happily Ever After novel. Oh, thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited to be here. Aw. Yeah. It's so funny because when I got this book, like, pitched to me and I read the back, I was like, Oh my gosh, I have to do this. It was like, you're like 45 year old woman, like dealing with parents, dealing with kids, like dealing, you know, all this, what to do next? You know, I don't know. It was like, well, this, I have to discover what happened. What does this lady do in the narrative? That was the whole point of me writing the book. I wrote it just because I wanted, I mean, it is women's fiction and I just wanted people to relate to it. And what's great is a lot of men have read it, which surprised me because I didn't think they would. And they have and they loved it. I've gotten great reviews from men, which is really nice. That is really nice. Well, you have a great sense of humor. I mean, this book is it's funny. You you have such a wit about it's great how you do that. Well, I used to be a comedy writer. I was a sitcom writer. I read that, yes. A long time ago. So I kind of love I love banter. I love great dialogue. And I just that's the most fun for me to write. Wait, so start tell me a little bit about that. I know, so you worked with all sorts of greats, you know, Burt Reynolds and Norm MacDonald and all these people. Tell me how you got into that and now how at this stage you switched gears and wrote your debut novel. It's really cool. Yeah, I did. When I got out of college, I went to work what was MTM, Mary Tyler Moore Studios, and became CBS Radford. And I went to work there and I was working on a show called Hill Street Blues, which a lot of people will know. And at the time I was just hanging out with a lot of sitcom writers and I was naive. I just thought, oh, I can do this. This seems like, I was gonna go in the direction of producing at the time, but I thought, oh, this seems more fun. So I just started writing and writing. And eventually I met a lot of sitcom writers and I met one that was on Major Dad at the time. And she sort of took me under her wing and she loved my writing and she sent it to her agent and also she sent it to the producers and they gave me my first script, which was fabulous. And then I did a lot of freelance. I did some stuff on staff. I did some freelance. I did a lot of pilots. I worked with Drew Carey actually before the Drew Carey show. I worked on a show that he was on. I worked on Evening Shade with Burt Reynolds. I worked with Roseanne on Roseanne. And I did a bunch of those kind of shows. And then I got pregnant because I had gotten married during all this time. And the hours are terrible in sitcoms. And my husband is a sitcom writer. So it's like one of us and I knew it was going be me because I wanted to raise my kids. So I didn't stop till my second child was born. I was trying to do a lot of freelance and the whole business changed and the writer's guild changed and it was really hard to get freelance scripts at that point. So I actually just took off time and I raised my kids for a while. And then when my youngest went to kindergarten, I went back and got a master's degree in nutrition and I opened my own business and I did that for ten years. But during that time, I continued to write and I wrote over 20 essays for Huffington Post. I was like one of their bloggers And I just kept writing things about my family, like personal essays. And at the same time, I was also doing, I wanted to write a non fiction book at the beginning about women and long term relationships and how they dealt with conflict and jealousy and their sex lives. And so I put out a survey anonymously and I had all these responses. And when I read all these responses, I realized, wow, women have so much in common in this age group. And I also had a million mom friends and we were all just talking and I decided that I would write. I started the non fiction book and realized, I don't really want to do this. And so I decided to write fiction and I turned all of these situations into my main character, Maggie. And I was also at the same time, everybody was going through things with their families. My father unfortunately passed away before the first draft was finished, but he didn't have the same issues at all as the father in the book. But my father had a lot of medical issues and my mother was his caregiver. And so I knew that side of it also. And even though I didn't pick the same issues by any means, because my dad was sharp as attack until the day he passed away. So it had nothing to do with his dementia or anything, But I just really wanted to show a woman trying to rediscover herself in the middle of her life amongst all these other things that are coming down on her. Because I think in our forties, that really does happen. That so much comes down on you at the same time, whether it's your kids and then your kids start to become a little bit more independent and then you're thinking, well, now what do I do? So I decided that I would close my business and I decided to just spend my time writing novels. And that's really how I got back into it. Wow. And you've also written about your whole nutrition, the whole nutrition piece. And that time I read your essay about, you know, the bully on the scale, which literally I posted on Instagram about this morning. And then I read your article and I was like, oh, this is literally the answer to what I posted. That's so funny. Yes, exactly. I did some nutrition articles and some personal articles and yes, exactly. Well, this is really neat. And there were so many places where I dog eared and like underlined that I thought were so funny. Me see if there's something I could find to read. Just like these little quips you have, like, I still have clients to see, so it's good I'm now sober. Although I wonder if lately I'd be a better therapist buzzed. Like all these times, I just like chuckled. Let me find a couple. Oh, good. Well, that was the point because there are some heartbreaking moments in it. Yes. But I wanted to write everything else I could with more humor. Yeah. This one too. When you're confiding not you. I'm sorry. When Maggie is confiding in her friend and they're going on a walk and, you know, her husband hasn't been having sex with her that much, which I also think is just great to talk about in this, you know, age group and whatever. But you said, do you think is going on with Jim? Ellen asked. In our marriage, there have been times he's disconnected, but we talk and he gets better. But now when I ask what's wrong, he's vague or avoids answering. He comes home, eats dinner, watches a little TV and falls asleep. I lie there wondering if I did something wrong. I worry that after Gia leaves for college and it's just the two of us, he'll be in his own world and I'll really feel alone. And then because it's so cold out, the friend Ellen goes, you're not alone. And if I hadn't lost feeling in my arms, I'd hug you. She said, we finished our walk and Ellen tried to give me that hug, but her arms were so frozen, she couldn't lift them. So she just bumped up against me. It'll be okay, she said. Anyway, but yes, of course, there are other themes of, you know, visiting, like when she visits her dad in the hospital and then the mom is still at home, not like cooking up a storm without anybody really to feed, but like cooking the things that she finally wants and dealing with a narcissistic mom and all these complicated life elements. A very judgmental mom. Exactly. And then that one feeling, you know, that fleeting moment where she's like, well, what about this guy? And you know, you never know. And, you know, I just feel like it's such a turning point stage of life, right in the middle of everything. And you just like captured that perfectly, really. Oh, good. Yeah. I mean, the whole thing that happens with Michael is just to show that there are times that relationships, because her and Jim, Maggie and Jim really do have this great marriage. They really do. And they really love each other. It's just, he's going through his own stuff and then he's not talking to her about it. So she feels lonely and she feels like, well, you know, I don't know what's going on with him, but it's not like she thinks he's having an affair. She just doesn't know when she feels really alone. And so when this guy comes in and gives her attention, it's like, it just doesn't hit her that that's what she's doing is just going in that direction and not going back to Jim and saying, Hey, we need to talk about this. You know? So I liked also how you had one chapter, you know, from Jim's point of view when he was with a guy friend. So you kind of see, and that's why I'm almost not surprised with guys relating to this book because that feeling of like, well, I'm dissatisfied in my career, but I don't wanna burden my wife with that. And like, I've got to sort this out myself is also something that I think. That's very manly. Men don't always say what's going on, but women sense it. We know that there's something happening And I did that partially because I wanted to do the book from Maggie, from that first person point of view, because I knew that I'd written the first chapter as a third person point of view. And when I wrote it, I thought, I don't know who Maggie is. I just felt sort of like a little bit distant from her. So I wanted, so I wrote it again. And when I wrote it from I, I knew exactly who she was. I knew her thoughts, I knew everything. So to do that, as you know, you can't just, if it's from the first person's point of view, you can't just know anything else happening off camera, off screen. So I decided that it would be really great to know what Jim was going through from his point of view. But I also really wanted people to read what the father was going through from the father's point of view. And I did a lot of research. I met with a neuropsychologist to talk about Lewy body dementia. And I also joined a Facebook group. They allowed me to be on it to read what these caregivers were saying and people with it. So everything that happened is it's real. I mean, it's not necessarily exactly the same way that it happened to this person, but I read real situations. And then I took from that to say, okay, this is what would really happen to him with the hallucinations. And I went to a, I did a webinar during COVID with the American Brain Foundation and that's Robin Williams wife is a big part of that. And they also work with Parkinson's also. And so I thought that would be really good to just sort of see what these people were saying. And it was also during all that time with Robin Williams going through all this, that the Lewy Body Dementia has become a little bit more that people need to know about it. I mean, everybody knows about Alzheimer's, but they don't necessarily know about Lewy body dementia. All of it just sounds like there's this like, I don't know, aging, getting sick. Oh, there's so many things. I know, believe me. Every day to hear about a new thing to have to worry about, it's like, well, I don't know. I don't even have the mental energy to keep them all in there circling around, but they're in there. Today's episode is sponsored by Quince. Summer always makes me rethink what I'm reaching for every day. Lighter fabrics, better materials, pieces that just feel good the moment you put them on and look effortless. That's why I keep coming back to Quince. They focus on high quality essentials. Think breathable linen, soft organic cotton, washable silk, but without the luxury markup. It's that rare balance where everything feels elevated but still easy. Quince has beautiful everyday pieces like 100% European linen pants, dresses, and tops with styles starting at $32. Their denim is soft and easy to wear. I wear my jean jacket all the time. And their organic cotton sweaters are perfect for layering on cool summer nights. 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[17:53]Leslie A. Rasmussen: So how long did it take for you to write write the book and, like, what was your process like when you were doing it? Well, it probably, I think it took me about three and a half years to get from really starting with nothing. And I joined a writer's group. It was only really the coach and then one other woman. And we, you know, went through and wrote and then brought stuff in and talked about it. But it took me a while because writing scripts is so different. I mean, a thirty minute script is, you know, maybe 36, whatever pages by the time you're done, 40 pages. A book, you know, it's like 300 pages. So I was kind of intimidated by the whole thing. And I ended up starting it knowing the beginning, knowing the middle, and I mean, knowing the beginning and the end, but not the middle. So I started writing without an outline, which I don't think I would do again because when I got to the middle, I was like, uh-oh, I don't know what I'm doing here. So I pretty much just sat down and then wrote a whole outline and figured out exactly where everything was going to go and then finished it. And then I had a couple of drafts and I went to the twenty eighteen Kawaii Writers Conference and Christina Baker Cline was teaching a workshop and she brought in Kristin Hannah and Alice Hoffman and the three of them were amazing. And I mean, Christina Baker Cline is like, oh my gosh, she's not only the nicest woman in the whole world, she's a great teacher. And Kristin Hannah had so many great things to say about revisions that when I went home, I revised it. And I put in a lot more things that I thought would help. And it was great. And then at that point is when I thought, okay, I think I'm ready to start trying to get it published. Interesting. So I know you said everything, everything, most things in the book were based loosely on something true. Did you go through some sort of period like this with your marriage? Was there somebody who caught your eye or was this based on a friend? It was, well, the tiny bit about the emotional affair was based on a friend who had had a twelve year emotional affair with somebody, and now she's divorced, but she had a twelve year emotional affair with somebody. Nothing ever happened. They never touched, they never kissed, nothing. And she and I knew why she was doing it. And we had talked about it at the time. Her husband was never home. He was like, never paid attention. She didn't know what state he was in because he was working all the time. So I kind of thought that was really interesting at the time when it happened and her and I had talked a lot about it, but I didn't, I'm still married to the same person that I knew since college and that's all fine. But the parts that I would say are little tiny bit autobiographical, the father and I, I mean, my father and I had an amazing relationship. So that relationship between Maggie and her father is based on my father. And the way the father is, I went back in after my dad passed away and put in a few more things from my childhood, just because I just felt like that connection with that character for me. But everything else is really from so many different people. I mean, the Maggie character is just from so much, you know, so many women that I knew basically or didn't know. So two more questions. What are you working on now and what advice would you have for aspiring authors? Okay. Right now I am about two thirds through my next book And it is, it's basically about two young women who separately find out something tragic in their lives and they come together in a support group. And it's how each one of them deals with this tragedy. It's a similar tragedy, but they deal with it differently. One is Jewish, one is Catholic. So, which that's the only piece from my life, which I'm Jewish and my husband's Catholic. I am Jewish and my husband's Catholic, but he converted actually. Oh, that's great. My husband didn't convert, but he's, you know, he kind of left the religion when he was 13. So I could say, okay, but it's okay. Otherwise I don't think it would've worked because we pretty much raise our kids more Jewish than Catholics. You know, and then the other question was, Oh, what advice do I have for writers? I would probably say it doesn't matter what it is, write something. Even if you think it's terrible, just write something. Because sometimes I remember writing something and thinking, Oh my God, this is the worst thing I've ever written. And coming back the next day and thinking, Did elves wake up in the middle of the night and rewrite this? It's actually okay. And, or find something in there where you jump off to another point. I would also say, find somebody else who's an author or a writer and be in some kind of group with them, even if you don't know them, because you need support. Writing is a very alone thing. It's a very solitary and you definitely need support in that. So those would probably be my advice is to definitely write and definitely find other people to talk to about writing. So you have that. Well, Leslie, thank you. This is so fun. Had it. I hate to hear about like back in the Hill Street Blues days. And that's so neat. I mean, just you're like a part of that whole cultural moment and everything. That's fantastic. Yeah. We worked on that and ALF and Carol Burnett Show. I worked on the, not the old one, the newer one. So yeah, I worked with a lot of people. Amazing. Well, congratulations on your debut novel. Thank you. You so much. I follow you. I watch your show. I mean, when I can watch it as much as possible on YouTube. I love it. Thank you so much for having I really do Thank you. Love It's so nice of you to say. Thank you. Have a great day. Thank you. You too. Okay. Take care. Bye bye. Bye. Thanks for listening to this episode of Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books. Don't forget to follow me on Instagram at Zibby Owens and at moms don't have time to read books. Also, sign up for my newsletter at zibbyowens.com and sign up for my virtual book club and meet lots of authors on Zoom every other week. Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan at Texture Sound for the sound editing, and thank you to Morning Moon Productions for providing this fantastic intro and outro music.