Liz Climo, YOU'RE DAD: A Little Book for Fathers (And the People Who Love Them)

[1:47]Zibby Owens: This is Zippy Owens, and you're listening to the award winning podcast, moms don't have time to read books. I'm also the host of Moms Don't Have Time to Lose Weight, and I'm the editor of the anthology, which you should run out and buy, called Moms Don't Have Time to A Quarantine Anthology. All proceeds of that book go to COVID nineteen Vaccine Research. And I'm the editor in chief of Moms Don't Have Time to Write a New Publication on Medium, and we're accepting submissions, so please send your personal essays there. And if all that isn't enough, you can follow me on Instagram at Zibby Owens, and my website is zibbyowens.com. Okay, now back to this amazing podcast. Liz Klimo is the author of Your Dad, A Little Book for Fathers and the People Who Love Them. She is a cartoonist, children's book author, illustrator and animator. Liz grew up in the San Francisco Bay Area and moved to Los Angeles after college to work as a character artist on The Simpsons. She's the author of the Rory the Dinosaur series, The Little World of Liz Climo, Lobsters the Best Medicine and Best Bear Ever. Her books have been translated into 10 languages and have sold over 2,250,000 copies worldwide. She lives in Los Angeles with her husband and daughter. And she's also the author of Your Mom. So if your dad is not enough, you should also pick up Your Mom. Welcome, Liz. Thanks so much for coming on Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books to discuss your dad. Thank you so much for having me. I'm so happy to be here. So we did our Instagram live in the middle of the pandemic. Do you even remember this about your mom?

[3:11]Liz Climo: It feels like it was two weeks ago and two years ago all at the same time.

[3:16]Zibby Owens: I feel like you were wearing some really cool hat though and like now you have long brown hair. Weren't you wearing some feel

[3:23]Liz Climo: like I probably was in some sort of a panic to like I have to put something on my head because I don't know what's happening sort of mood. So probably a hat or a headband or something, who knows? Today I am wearing overalls and actually just picked up my daughter from school and a kid walking out looked at me and kind of looked me up and down and said, I didn't know adults could wear overalls. Well, we'll leave it. Here it is.

[3:46]Zibby Owens: From the mouth of babes. Uh-huh. I feel like I would need such a super sized pair of overalls at this point to accommodate all the various

[3:55]Liz Climo: I know. I have you know, I I don't wanna just completely, you know, dismiss denim as a concept, but it's nice not having any buttons anywhere up except for right near the shoulders. It's true. Your shoulders always fit. The shoulders are good. It's very it's very comfortable. And I feel like I'm wearing something that isn't just what I slept in, which is what the theme of this year has been for me. Very true. There you go. Yeah.

[4:19]Zibby Owens: Okay. So before, during the pandemic, you came out with your mom, which was a beautiful, slim, illustrated, funny book. Now you have your dad. And I just want to spell like y o u apostrophe r e instead of like someone thinking you are actually dad or something, which is similarly amazing. But you put in the introduction of this book how you were sort of struggling at the beginning to even figure out what your dad should be about. Your mother had passed away, so there was some beautiful sadness and all of that as well, a lot of extra, you know and you were saying how could you do Well, you know what, why don't I let you tell it?

[4:55]Liz Climo: No, you're completely on the right track. So yeah, I had Your Mom come out last year and it was a book that I had the idea for and I wrote in, you know, I had a couple sort of like concepts rattling around in my head, but I actually like physically sat and wrote the book in like an afternoon at a coffee shop and it just kind of poured out of me. And it was almost like it had been waiting to be written this entire time because again, like you said, had my mother passed away when I was young and like I just wanted to sort of speak to what it was like to lose my mom and then also become a mom and not have her here to sort of guide me. And so I did that and I have it right here. I did it in a little, just like a little picture book for adults basically where I tried to keep it light and fun like I do in my comics, but also touch on some heavier stuff. And so I did it and I was very proud of it and I knew I was going to do a book about dads. And so when I sat down to write your dad, it was a little bit like, oh no, I already said all the stuff that I wanted to say. Because, you know, in a lot of ways, your mom is just a book about parenting. It's a book about being a mother, but it's also, you know, just like a broader book about parenting or being a caretaker or being just like anyone who has a significant role in someone's life in that sort of caretaker sense. And so when it came to working on your dad, I sort of explored some different things I might wanna say. And in a lot of ways, was sort of just a continuation of the conversation about just like, again, parenting and sort of the stuff that you run into when you're a parent or caretaker. And then I also thought it might be a nice opportunity to sort of like revisit and sort of redefine the classic dad roles, which is just like, you know, like, well, what's the difference between a mom and a dad anywhere? Is there a difference? And like, you know, what about families that don't have, you know, a dad at all? It's just, you know, they have two mother parents or two parents that aren't, you know, I wanted to sort of just talk about a continuation of like, just the different ways that people can sort of fill that role in someone's life, I guess. Yes. Well, the thing that was great about this book is Well, first of all, just the humor and all the different animals and particularly what it was, a raccoon who was falling asleep, like page after page? Was that a raccoon? Oh yeah, like a lemur kind of a sort of sometimes I'm like, I have to know what animal I'm drawing. Other times I'm like, you know what? It could be a raccoon, could be a lemur. It doesn't matter. Okay. Good. I don't think I could recognize a lemur in a crowd if you paid me. So whatever it was, it was I looked like a raccoon.

[7:21]Zibby Owens: But you're so funny talking about how tired parents are. But instead of this is like the ultimate show, don't tell. Right? It's like, I'm like getting more and more tired. And you're like, hello, are you still with me? And he's like, yes. Yes. I'm here. Yes. I'm here. I can hear you. But then again, the end, it was so clever. Tell me a little bit about how you, if you don't mind, like just got into illustrating and writing and doing all your comics and becoming like this, you know, amazing career woman in this particular slice of bookdom, if you will.

[7:56]Liz Climo: Well, in a way it happened sort of accidentally and in a way it's something that I've been sort of like working towards my whole life. I've always loved to draw ever since I was little. And I always, in particular, love to draw comics. And that was just the way I've always liked to draw. I like making people laugh. I like, like I loved Pictionary when I was little and I love it as an adult, but it's funny because like, I have a lot of friends who are really, really, really good artists and I would play Pictionary with them and they might not be as good at it because they have to spend more time making something beautiful. Whereas I'm like, I can do something in like four seconds and then I'm moving on. Like I couldn't do that perfectly rendered drawing that they could do but I can get the point across really fast. And so I always knew that I wanted to just do comics and I loved the medium and I was working towards a degree of animation and illustration at San Jose State and I didn't get accepted to the program but I did get a job on The Simpsons very shortly after which was a very big surprise. And so I was, that was when I was around 23. And so I worked in animation for a while. I moved down to LA, worked in animation for about fourteen years and I kind of shelved and started to use a book analogy. I definitely put the like, you know, the comics on the shelf for a bit so I could focus on animating. And little by little, I kind of started to get back into doing more of the stuff that I like to do when I was younger, which was more comics. And so, I kind of just picked it back up and in tandem with working on my day job. And so as sort of an exercise in accountability, I started posting the comics online. And then I never meant, you know, in my mind it was like I have my career. I'm in animation and I'm so lucky and I'm so happy to be here and I can't believe that I even got this job in the first place. So this was the comics are more of a like just staying true to what I've always loved to do but I never actually expected them to become a different career. And so when they did sort of start to get some attention and people, you know, some positive feedback and I was able to sign with an agency, It just sort of took off and I sort of left animation and sort of moved in this other direction and now I'm here I am. So yeah, it's, I mean, it's interesting because it's, I think I would probably, if I hadn't worked in animation, would hear animation and illustration and think like, well, how big of a difference could there actually be? But there is actually a pretty significant difference and I am just better at sort of doing sort of like concise jokes within a couple panels and animating is like this beautiful art form that you really have to just like be able to draw loose and flowy and rough. It's just like this amazing thing that I never really caught onto because I'm just over here like drawing really, really careful little line drawings. And that's just how I like to draw. It's just sort of what I like to do. So I don't know if like from Pictionary to

[10:48]Zibby Owens: animation to illustration answers your question, but that's sort of how I got here. I am going to buy like five boxes of Pictionaries and like, Piction is gonna make all my kids. I'm like, maybe one day you could be. Yeah.

[11:01]Liz Climo: Well, it's funny. Like, so people will ask me sometimes, like if they have children who are interested in art or drawing, what classes should I put them in? What sort of books should I buy? What should I do to sort of like really encourage them and teach them? And I just, I sort of went in a different direction where I was just encouraged to draw in the exact way that I liked to do it and if you see if you know you have a child who's just like sit in front of the TV or maybe not the TV but like anywhere and just drawing pictures like if that's what's making them happy then the mileage of just doing the work and doing what they love is what's going to sort of motivate them and just in essence just make them get better at the craft I guess. That and I always tell people to go to a zoo and sit and draw the animals at the zoo because if you can draw from life then you can draw pretty much That's like the foundation of all art is being able to do that life drawing. So, yeah. I cannot draw from life at all. I can't either if it makes you feel any better. I worked at it for a bit and then I left it behind. And so that's why it's harder for me to do more photorealistic drawings or drawings of people really because it's just like, really have to exercise that muscle and I have it in an oil, but I can draw a raccoon slash lemur

[12:16]Zibby Owens: in a cartoon. And that is all you needed right then. There Do you people ask you about The Simpsons predicting the future? Do you know what I'm talking about? How like Yes, I do.

[12:27]Liz Climo: People do. And there is a bit of distance between the writing aspect of The Simpsons and the animating aspect of The Simpsons. And so like we would be the artist would stay in a studio in Burbank and the writers and producers and everyone are at are at Fox. So all the the mind reading and like future predicting happens at Fox and we were just kind of like drawing and I see. But it is interesting and I think that, you know, I don't know if there's another show like The Simpsons that's just had its finger on just like the pulse of pop culture the way that it has. And so I feel like it's just, I don't even know. I mean, maybe in a way it is actually predicting the ridiculousness of where we are now, but it is pretty wild. Some of the stuff that I've seen is like, that is insane.

[13:12]Zibby Owens: Yeah, Crazy. My husband showed me some of the videos about like how fifteen years ago or something they had like Donald Trump is I don't even know. Whatever. Anyway, it was pretty cool. There was like a photo of of him going down the escalator. Yes. The one I was thinking of. Yes. Today's episode is sponsored by Quince.

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[15:57]Liz Climo: Crazy. You know, maybe maybe it's that it's predicting the future. Maybe we just started and said like, maybe we've just entered the Simpsons timeline of of, like, human, like, existence. So Oh my god. Either way, it's very interesting.

[16:10]Zibby Owens: Who knew back then that our life would become you know, art becomes life or whatever that So what are you working on now? So

[16:20]Liz Climo: I have a couple, you know, a couple of books sort of in the pipeline. It's been a really busy year. And on the one hand, I'm really grateful for that because, you know, I was able to keep working, but a lot of it was stuff, publishing is really slow. And so a lot of it was stuff that I kind of had geared up a couple of years ago. And then suddenly it was like, oh, here's all the work that you have been working towards for the past couple years and also your child is not in school anymore and also you don't have a babysitter anymore because they had to move home and also you have to figure out how to do it. So the year has been pretty crazy. I've had a lot going on and so I definitely have a couple more books that I haven't announced yet that are will be announcing soon and that I'm working towards but I'm also trying to give myself a little space to sort of like just kind of take a deep breath and then also try to get my daughter back into like the social aspect of like, you know, safely of just because she's been inside the house all year as the rest of us. My gosh. So yeah, I have, you know, kind of continuing the same trajectory. I will say that your dad and your mom have both been really fun, like the whole I've done comic compilations and I've done children's books, but I haven't really done like sort of adult centric picture books and I'm really enjoying it. So I think I'm going to probably try and do some more stuff like that. So yeah, it's exciting. We'll see. Your grandma, your grandpa.

[17:45]Zibby Owens: Exactly. You're a kid, your sister? I don't know. Yeah,

[17:52]Liz Climo: there's so many different directions we could go.

[17:55]Zibby Owens: Don't need my help on that.

[17:58]Liz Climo: No, this is good. I'm gonna write them down. No, no.

[18:02]Zibby Owens: Let me steal all of your ideas. Please. Oh my god. Yeah. I can keep going. Know? Maybe it should just become a total joke. Like, you're a pain in the ass. Then you could like you could just like nicely leave that on someone's desk, you know? Here, I thought this was hilarious.

[18:19]Liz Climo: That would probably sell really well actually. Right?

[18:23]Zibby Owens: All right. You can put me in the acknowledgments if you end up doing that one. You can just do it in the afternoon, just whip it up. Actually, if you want, I mean, I'm sort of kidding, sort of not, but I have this medium publication called Moms Don't Have Time to Write. So you could do just a little even just a little box or two of a comic and put it up there if you wanted. Oh, that sounds fun. You wouldn't commit to offending anyone with the whole book. That's always nice.

[18:54]Liz Climo: I avoiding offending people at all costs. That that's

[18:59]Zibby Owens: is better. So does your daughter like to draw? And is she artistic in the way you are?

[19:05]Liz Climo: She does like to draw. My husband and I are both artists and we both work. We met working in animation. So she's definitely surrounded by a lot of art, a lot of artists. And she's really, she does what I did, which is she will sort of find a show or a comic or something that she loved like a sort of you know like a character that she loves and then she'll just sit and practice drawing them over and over which I did with like Calvin and Hobbes and The Simpsons. And you know, it actually really helped me as I got older and even without a background in animation, it was like, oh, like, you know, I never animated but I understand how The Simpsons, like I understand the show and so I was able, I think it kind of helped me get a job there for that reason. And so I kind of am encouraged, we're both encouraging her like when she finds something she loves, like a character she loves and she's drawing and we're like, oh yeah, that's a great way to practice. And so she really likes it, she's very good. She's really good at drawing like what she sees. Like she's really good at copying sort of just like if she's watching TV and there's a character on TV, she can draw it like SpongeBob, like perfect SpongeBob and it's kind of amazing. But yeah, she's definitely, I don't know if it's like, we would always joke, my husband and I would always joke that like, oh, she'll be like, you know, an accountant probably because you know, everyone says like, oh, your daughter will probably be an artist too. We didn't wanna like put that pressure on her and like, you know, do whatever you want. But sure enough, she's very interested in drawing. It happened anyway. None of us are good at math.

[20:33]Zibby Owens: No accountants in this family. So what advice would you have for, I would say aspiring authors, but author illustrators or anyone trying to get into or follow their dream the way you can, the skills that you love, the stuff you love to do, all of that. Give me some good inspiration. So

[20:52]Liz Climo: I'll start with like, I find it's really frustrating if you are like comparing yourself to other people who you find are better than you. And I mean, I still do that now and it's really important to like find what you love to do, whether it's drawing or writing and doing it in a style that feels right and feels like authentic to you. And then just keep getting better and better at that. It's gonna be frustrating at first. You're not gonna be like, there are a lot of things I look back on that I did that I'm not, I like kind of, Oh, I wish I had done this differently. Or like, Oh, I know how to do this now and I didn't really know how to do this then. And that's fine. Like, you you want to keep getting better and better, but it's important to not, you know, to draw inspiration from people around you, but not to let how good everybody is compared to you sort of bring you down or make you feel like you shouldn't, you're not in the right place because maybe what you're doing is something that nobody's seen before. And I feel like when I started out, I would sort of criticize myself because everything felt much too cartoony and it worked. Mean that it ended up being a good thing because this is you know the way that I draw. I'd say that if you're trying to get into writing this is something that I always say and it's really just true to my own experience. This is not the way that everyone needs to do it but having an agent has been just instrumental to everything that I've done. Like my agent's wonderful and I've had the same agent for ten years and she's really helped me deal with stuff that I just like contracts and stuff that I just can't wrap my brain around. And she's an advocate for me. So it's like, she'll help me sort of like manage my workload and stuff like that. A good way to find an agent. It's hard for me to speak to this because I was very lucky in that she actually reached out to me, but she's told me one good way which sounds like this isn't a real thing, but it's a real thing. If you find a book that you feel like is in the same vein of what you would like to do, can even just like open up the page, first couple of pages and oftentimes the agent's listed and you can reach out to that person and send a query letter. There's a lot of great resources online about how to find an agent but that has been really helpful for me. I do know some people who are very successful in animation who have tried to pitch picture books and they don't have an agent and it's just difficult to get anyone to listen because you just, if you don't have those connections, it can be hard. Again, not the only way to do it but that's what I always tell people that that's always my first piece of advice. So yeah, just kind of get the logistical stuff worked out and then try to like work on the stuff that you like and hopefully bring those two things together. And it takes a little time. Like it definitely took a few years of working on this stuff while also holding on to my day job. So it's labor of love, but it's fun, it can be fun. It's great. What am saying? It could be fun. Yeah. Like, it's great. It's wonderful.

[23:37]Zibby Owens: Awesome. Awesome. Well, Liz, thank you. Thank you for your dad, which I am going to give my dad for Father's Day and Aw. Excited about. And thanks for chatting, and I'm gonna think of you next time I'm at the zoo and try to draw something, not that that will happen anytime soon.

[23:55]Liz Climo: Draw something. Keep drawing and drawing and drawing. It's fun. It's really fun. It is fun. That's true. That's for sure.

[24:01]Zibby Owens: Thanks for using your talent to entertain so many people and it's Thank pretty awesome you. Thank you so much for having me. This has been really fun. Oh, good. I'm so glad. My pleasure. Have a great day. You too. Thanks so much. Bye.