Jenny Lee, ANNA K AWAY

[1:10]Zibby Owens: Hi. This is Zippy Owens, and you're listening to the award winning podcast, moms don't have time to read books. I'm also the host of moms don't have time to lose weight, and I'm the editor of the anthology, which you should run out and buy called moms don't have time Quarantine Anthology. All proceeds of that book go to COVID nineteen Vaccine Research. And I'm the editor in chief of Moms Don't Have Time To Write, a new publication on Medium, and we're accepting submissions, so please send your personal essays there. If all that isn't enough, you can follow me on Instagram at Zibby Owens and my website is zibbyowens.com. Okay, now back to this amazing podcast. I am so thrilled that Ferity brand is back at being my sponsor again because as many of you know because I talk about them a lot and I post about them a lot, Ferdy is like my favorite clothing brand right now. It is fashionable enough that I always feel good wearing it, super comfortable, very forgiving, and just really cool. So I'm so excited they're my sponsor. You can get a discount with feritybrand.com/zippy and you'll get 20% off. Again, that's feritybrand.com/zippy. Get 20% off. And a few other things that you should know about Ferity aside from the fact that I'm living in their dresses for this summer is that they're a family run brand fueled by purpose and optimism. They make high quality, sustainably minded, feel good favorites that you'll be proud to wear. I certainly am. They believe in family, quality, sustainability, and community. Summer is in their DNA, and they've created many staples for the summer, sustainably minded with the highest of quality, comfort, and versatility, and all are made for life, which I can a 100% attest to, and you should definitely go check it out. So again, fairetybrand dot com slash Zibby for 20% off. Go try it out. I had so much fun doing an Instagram live with Jenny Lee about her second book, Anna K. Away. I had already done a podcast with her for Anna K, which was her debut You novel. And I thought I would share this with you as an episode so you can hear more about Anna K. And Anna K. Away. Jenny Lee is a television writer and producer who has worked on BET's Boomerang, IFC's Brockmeyer, Freeform's Young and Hungry, and the Disney Channel's number one rated kids show, Shake It Up. Jenny previously published humor essay collections and middle grade novels. She lives in Los Angeles with her husband and a hundred and thirty five pound Newfoundland, Gemma. And, it's a toss-up on Who's Walking. Hey.

[3:42]Jenny Lee: Phoebe, I'm having the same morning, I think. So all good. Haven't even, like, stood up in, like I don't even know how many hours. I've been, like, putting out stuff on email all day. Anyway, how are you? I am good. I'm good. I had, like, documents too, and I was like, oh my gosh. Oh my gosh. So I was up at, like, 5AM this morning. So I get it. I'm with you on the like We could have just done this earlier. Yeah.

[4:05]Guest: Why not? Because we're always at our best then. Right? Anyway, Jenny, congratulations. Anna K Away. Are you excited to have it out there? Part two of Anna Kay. How many parts is this gonna be?

[4:17]Jenny Lee: I think right now, I mean, it's just the two, but I definitely wanna do a third. I feel like it. I think there's like her senior year. I think it's time for like the big finale. Yes. Oh my god. So maybe for people watching who don't know much about Anna Kay at all,

[4:33]Guest: can you tell a little bit more about tell everybody more about the book and the series and everything.

[4:41]Jenny Lee: Sure. Thank you. This is the first book that came out on 03/03/2020, like, one week before the pandemic. I did Zippy's podcast, like, a month before, and we had no idea what was about to befall us, basically. I had one week of a book tour, and then the entire world shut down, and everything kind of went crazy. I was Anna K, though, was a modern day young adult retelling of Anna Karenina. And the sequel picks up right where the last book ended, and that is not based on anything except my own creativity, which was in short supply during the pandemic, which is when I wrote that book. Oh my god. So you wrote the whole thing during the pandemic? You know, honestly, I had like probably 50 to 75% done, but then what I did is I really once the pandemic hit and it was just so overwhelming and we just didn't know what was going to happen in the early days, it was so scary, we were I really just paused on writing. And I was like, we just don't know what's gonna happen. Is this the right type of book or is it appropriate? And I just we didn't know. So I honestly ended up scrapping probably most of that crap, and then started over sort of from scratch. Because I just wanted to take a different tone, but at the same time, you know, my editors and publishers were like, you know, we Anna K was so great and fun and soapy and escapist and escapist, and that really seemed to, like, that people wanted to read that during the pandemic. So I shouldn't, like, double down on the sadness or the grief, etcetera. So I really had a fine line of balancing both. So I mean, that sequel, I mean, it was the most difficult book I've ever written. Definitely.

[6:16]Guest: Well, that's impossible though, because if you're writing during a time of complete uncertainty, it's hard to know what we're going to want after. It could have ended the next moment, and it could have gone on five years. So how do you it's like, how can you write to someone's preference in a world you don't even know when you don't even know what that's gonna look like? I know. So I really had to kind of just dig in deep with the characters and think because Anna, like, no spoilers, but then after the first book, she kind of goes through an unprecedented

[6:41]Jenny Lee: tragedy and loss. So I really wanted to kind of explore that a little bit through the characters' eyes to see, like, how teenagers would handle such a thing that's never happened before, which is what was going on. I mean, I dedicated Anna Kay away to all the teenagers out there who got their lives disrupted from the pandemic because I was so sad to read about, you know, people, you know, proms getting canceled and graduations, which, you know, in the grand scheme of things may seem small, but huge to a teenager. I mean, are major life, you know, milestones and markers. And it really just, you know, I I just felt for everybody. I mean, was just the time of empathy, really. So I really wanted to explore that, but figure out, like, how Anna could learn to love again despite, like, her feelings of sadness. So that was really, my goal in in the book. And it took me many, many different storylines and tries to get it right, really. You know, though, that you've written a great book when you quote Bananarama

[7:34]Guest: as your epitaph, as that was called, it's a folklore summer leaving me leaving me here on my own. Should I sing it for you? Yes. I would love. Well, yeah, as a mother of two teenagers, yeah, if pandemic life was not easy, on the other hand, I feel like no life is really that easy with teenagers. So, you know, who knows? Who knows what their life would have been like? But, yes, lots of disruption and uncertainty and everything else. So isn't

[8:04]Jenny Lee: maybe I'm remembering wrong, but I feel like this is on its way to being limited series or a movie or something or no. Did I make that up? Like, got optioned and purchased. It's sort of in that state where, I mean, everything in Hollywood, because I'm a TV writer producer as well, shut down, of course, during the pandemic. So the pipeline is backed up as they say. So right now, it's sort of in a little bit of, you know, we I just don't have news. I mean, I'm close to having news, but I'm not allowed to announce it. So just that's all I can say. But, yes, that is the plan. It was always the plan is to do a screen adaptation of Anna K. For sure. Cool. Do you miss your characters now when you're not writing about them? I finished a funny story. The paperback of Anna K came out last month, right, before the hardcover. And there is a first chapter sneak peek of Anna K away in that paperback, and that chapter is no longer even accurate. I changed the first chapter up, I mean, in January in the second past pages. Just because, again, I mean, after I've gone through so many drafts, I went back into the first chapter and kind of wanted to retool and tweak. And by the time I turned it in, were like, it's kind of too late to change the sneak peek. And I was like, it's totally that's just like the nature of the beast and also writing about, like, you know, teens. I mean, times just change so quickly. So I really just wanted I mean, I was honestly, like I said, tweaking it up into the very last moment that the that Flatiron, my publishers let me because I need I just wanted to. It was just such a I never will again say and I don't think I ever said it, but that sequels complain about a sequel of anything because I just don't think I understood how difficult it would be to write one, I guess. In my head, I was like, oh, yay. I love these characters. They're so fun. They're so they're so alive in my head or in my heart. And so I kind of thought it wouldn't be so bad to write a sequel. I was like, oh my god. I jumped at the chance. Because it wasn't initially when we sold Anna K, it wasn't that it was going to be like a trilogy or even a sequel. It was just a one off book. And then when like early buzz was coming in strong, they were like, hey. How about a sequel? And I was like, sure. Like, without thinking really. And that definitely came back to bite me in the ass because Do you think if it hadn't been the pandemic time, would it still have been really hard? Like, what what made it so hard about the sequel? It's hard to say about the pandemic because that just was its own thing. So I still think it would have been a little bit difficult. I think that I didn't really outline. I'm not a big outliner in general except in my TV work. I didn't outline the first book, though I obviously had a plot structure to follow. Right? Because I was, you know, it was adapting. I mean, was a retelling of an original story. So this one having like carte blanche to do what I want, this book takes place directly after the first one, I wanted to do just the summer. In my head, I was like, it'll be a super thin, fun summer book of three little months, and it'll be short and a 180 pages, and then none of that worked out for me, basically. Because all of these kids traveling in the summer, because I was like, yeah. Well, rich kids probably travel in the summer, basically. So Anna was in Italy, and she was in Seoul, Korea. And then Beatrice, one of the characters, went to LA for an internship. Lolly went to theater camp at Interlochen. So it was like everybody was spread out. And then it when I started writing it, it felt very disjointed because I didn't have, like, the centerpiece of New York and Greenwich to bring everyone together, which made it you know? So I didn't that was a big challenge. And usually, like, in the first book, I did Valentine's Day, and you got to see it from every character's perspective. But the big holidays in the summer are American holidays, fourth of July and the you know, and Labor Day, and that didn't translate to anyone else who was abroad. So I was having problems with time changes and just making sure it was smooth. And I just again, I'll say with Anna's story too, because she was, like, dealing with grief. It was too soon for her to have a love story of her own. So I kind of maybe made the wrong choice in the beginning and kind of had her, like, have another dramatic bummer story basically with a k pop star. And then I was like, ugh, this book's supposed to be a celebration about love and exploring that. And even if she's not ready herself to embark on a love relationship, I wanted her to be a part of someone else's or to help or to find healing of her own heart by helping another couple, like, get together, that should be together. So I and then, you know, so that was a big switch. And then I, like, scrapped all the Anna stories and then had to we draft again. But, I mean, I I was so happy and thrilled with how many people loved the first book that I really did feel a huge sense of pressure to make sure I didn't disappoint or embarrass myself, basically, with a, you know, with an unfun follow-up. You know? I just it was very important to me. So Well, I'm sure you didn't embarrass yourself. You're

[12:47]Guest: like a totally skilled amazing rock star author. There's no way that you're just trying a sequel. Yeah. Plus, I feel like there aren't enough sequels of books. I mean, what's happened? Like, there used to be don't didn't there I don't know. I didn't realize that in young adult fiction because I was new, Anna K was my debut young adult novel.

[13:07]Jenny Lee: And I I I mean, I read a lot of young adult fiction now, but I don't say I did before except for, like, The Fault of Our Stars or Hunger Games or things that crossed over into, like, adult territory. There are a lot of sequels and trilogies and stuff to build audience because, you know, young readers really are hungry to, like, just live in the world and get back to these characters. And so that's when someone finally gave me advice. Another author gave me advice that she received from Marie Lu, who I who I met only once at a book conference. And she was like, Jenny, you have to, like, realize that the characters everyone fell in love with the characters in Anna K. They just wanna spend more time with them. They're not expecting, like, you know, big, huge thing. They just wanna spend more time. Teenagers do. They think of them as their friends, and so they wanna just continue the journey. Like Gossip Girl, like how there were so many books and they just like it went on and on and on. And they're like, that's what how they sort of view things. So that's why to me, at the end of this Anna K. Away, it's the end of summer. So now it would be Anna's senior year. But what's tricky is, is that I did put it in modern time because that book, you know, I definitely did pop culture references and it was very squarely in 2019. So her senior year would be disrupted by the pandemic. So that I have no idea. I mean, would I what do you think? Do you think, like, would you want to read, like, an accurate or do we just you know what I mean? It's a tricky sort of thing, but I honestly haven't figured that out. Read about it after we just got Debating.

[14:35]Guest: I'm leaning towards saying forget the pandemic and just make it about teen as if teen years as if they want. I mean, no one really remembers when they're reading a book, like, what actual number a year it is. Right. You know? They just know, like, I don't even know Sweet Valley High. Like, when was that? I have no idea the political events in the you know? So I think Skip, I would say, don't even address it. Plus, it'll make it so to strike the right tone. Plus, what can happen? It would all be on Zoom. You know? Like Exactly.

[15:04]Jenny Lee: So Unless father just squirrels her way to a private island and she has some adventure. I know. But I was thinking the same thing because it's like certain things are like like, Bret Easton Ellis and Jay McInerney and all those are Tom and John Witzu. These were all very much, you know, late eighties, early nineties books. You know what I mean? So I was like, maybe I don't have to ground it in that, and I could sort of just release myself and just let's let's do our senior year as it could have been. Today's episode is sponsored by Quince.

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[18:40]Guest: You know? You know what you it'd be cool is do, like, a little not even a whole book, like, a novella or like a long, not a short story, but like a long story. And have it be like the characters in the pandemic, but don't put it in a book. Have it be like a bonus if you sign up for your newsletter or like some other way where the real people can relate to the characters going through what they're going through, but not right now. Like it's such a commitment. I don't know. Try it for like 10 pages and just like, what would they do? What would they what would their lives be like? And how could that how could you make teen drama amid screens? And I don't know, it might be a fun exercise, but I would prop a whole book about it. That's my two No.

[19:21]Jenny Lee: I get it. Totally. I know that's what I was grappling with now when I start to think about like, you know, a third book or her senior year.

[19:28]Guest: Yeah. Now let them have fun. Let the let the seniors who had their year ruined, like be able to read it and have fun vicariously. Right. Absolutely. Anyway, and I take back my stupid comment about not being a lot of sequels. I wasn't thinking about You. I was really thinking more about adult books, having a lot of sequels. But, of course, in You land.

[19:49]Jenny Lee: Yeah. Well, the sequel and the trilogy, and they were like, oh, the duology. I'm like, what's a duology? They're like, oh, that's a two book thing. And I was like, oh, there's terminology I didn't even know. And I was like, because I do think this will be I'd like to make it a trilogy. It's just not like a duology. Wow, look at that learning something new every day.

[20:07]Guest: So now that you have gotten this book out into the world and it's all ready to go, are you working on another project at all aside from brainstorming

[20:16]Jenny Lee: about the third Anna K? Are you, like, you doing more TV stuff now? I'm actually in a lot of TV development going right now. I'm I'm actually doing a mini room for, like, a a kid's show for HBO Max that I can't exactly tell announce yet. So I'm doing that. So it's keeping me busy. I'm doing my first Zoom room. I have a project in development with Margaret Cho, who's an idol of mine. So that's super exciting. So in TV or, like, my you know, I always say writing books is my side hustle, and, like, TV writing and producing is my main job. I feel like with that in in Hollywood, as you as you and your husband may know, it's like there's so many projects going on all the time. You have to keep a lot of irons in the fire because you just don't know what's gonna make it to the big screen or the small screen. You know what I mean? You just have to have it. So at any time, given time, I probably have I think I have four projects just all in various stages right now. And who knows what's gonna happen to them? It's one of those. But I think I you continually sort of have to do that just to make sure. But in terms of books, I was like, oh, wouldn't it be fun to write like, I've always kind of wanted to write a thriller because I read during the pandemic, I really wasn't reading much contemporary stuff. I either wanted to read things like fantasy, which I normally didn't read because I read the Ninth House and, like, I started reading the Shadow and Bone trilogy. But then I was like, I don't know. I wanna kind of, like, push myself to try something else, and I do love a good thriller. And I've just never done one before, so I don't even know what it would be like. I think a mystery would be too difficult because there's so many little steps and you have to really I don't know if that's exactly the right brain I have, but I feel like a thriller. I could do, like, a fun soapy girl thriller would be seems Yeah.

[21:51]Guest: That's amazing. So cool. Awesome. Well, Jenny, it's so nice to chat with you and I'm so excited about your book. Maybe people can go back and listen to our original podcast way back when when we were in LA, which I haven't been to in like forever and a half after this whole thing.

[22:08]Jenny Lee: But I am so excited for you. Talked about yeah. We just talked about Anna K. We had no idea. That's what I find so interesting. I actually have gone back and listened to that. And then the Margaret Cho podcast I did six weeks into the pandemic. And it's so funny to hear us talk about that, like where we were at that stage and to see it because it's just an interesting marker of time. And it's crazy. It's been a year. I mean, it's Oh my gosh.

[22:31]Guest: Well, you have to keep writing. And each week each year, we can come back and do a little check-in and every it'll be like our annual reunion here. Fuck you up. Fun things I do want to point out during the pandemic is I wrote the essay for the next anthology for your anthology. Yeah. Actually, I was about to say that. Why don't you tell people I wasn't about to, but I meant to you originally, and then I forgot because it's been one of those days and that my mind is like a sip. Tell everybody about the essay and get and how exciting it's gonna be to have it all come out. Yeah. You know, was very honored to be asked to write

[23:06]Jenny Lee: an essay in the Zippy's anthology, and it was really fun to kind of think about different ideas, you know, and tell a little bit more of a personal story. And I wanted to do something on the theme of moms. And I have to say I have a very strict Korean mother that I oftentimes am Haley and I'm not so nice about sometimes because I feel like we've had a very difficult relationship and I feel like I complain about her a lot. And then I started thinking that I'm probably too old to kind of keep up that thing that shit like coming before me. Super teen. And so I was like, you know what? We've come to better terms as she's gotten older and as I've gotten older, it's still a little difficult. I was like, I wanted to write an essay about the exploration of that. What is it going to feel like if I let go of the whole, I have a mean Korean mom thing, really thought about it from a different perspective and what it means. And honestly, it was very freeing. I really, you know, I wrote an entire TV original pilot about my difficult relationship with my mom that people love, and it's hilarious and dark and funny, but sometimes I feel it's one of those things where I'm like, I hope it doesn't get made unless she happens to pass because I couldn't I would never want her to see it. It's like an odd thing to write about something so personal, especially when it's difficult, I've obviously minded for comedy, you know, all this time. And so then I was like, maybe that's, I don't know, it's time to just sort of forgive our past issues and like, you know, and not hold that, like, so tightly anymore. And it was kind of freeing. So I really had a great time with that essay. Well, I'm so glad you wrote it. It was so nice of you. I loved the essay. Beautiful.

[24:40]Guest: I mean, as well, I can't even say anything about my mom on this because she might be listening. But I think everybody, you know, everybody struggles. A lot of people struggle with their relationships. Doesn't matter how old you get. I mean, my mother and her mother until she passed away at 97, you know, it just never ended. So the fact that you're willing to even examine it is like a grown up, you know. Right.

[25:03]Jenny Lee: Know. I was like, look at me, how adult I'm becoming about trying to figure and do explore that and stuff. Because it's true. That is the one thing with, like, teenagers, like, I'm you know, one one thing I can tell you about the Anna K in terms of the TV series development is, like, we're going to make it multigenerational. Meaning, like, Anna's father, you know, being a Korean man has a Korean mother who's very strict that he's contending with. And so it's this idea of, like, how it spills from generation to generation and what it does, you know, and what his parenting style is based on how he was raised. Because my brother has three children, and he was pushed so hard for so many things about college and where he's gonna go all the time that he really swung the other way and isn't doing that with his children. But then lately was like, I don't know. Mom and dad talked pushed us on college so much and so hard. I didn't do that with my kids, but now my son's a junior. He's like, I don't know what I want to do for college. He's like, and that's not good either. So he's like, I'm not sure what the happy medium. I think it's a struggle for every parent at all ages.

[26:04]Guest: There's a lot of parenting

[26:06]Jenny Lee: against the way you were parented. I I feel myself doing that too. Yeah. I finally I don't know. I thought of my personalities because I was like, the things that I didn't want to be like my mom, you know, where I'm like, oh, I kind of fought against some of the things that my mom was pushing for me about Korean women should be, like, deferential to men, and they shouldn't talk so loud or laugh so much or, like, you know, she was very strict about that. About, like, that honestly that, like, you know, men are better than women. It was, like, it's an ongoing struggle. She she at right can say that. She just has before. And it's just such an interesting sort of dynamic, you know? And so and a lot of things is like my pushback and how I've done it and stuff. So in a way, I'm thankful to her in a way because I kind of am pretty happy with how I'm turning out or how I'm, you know, growing up, I guess. And so I think that is a lot because of, like, you know, I really was able to look at the things that I wanted to change about our relationship and make sure I didn't do them as well just in my outer self. So I mean, that's the truth. There was some way to know, are you who you are because of your mom? Or are you who you are in spite of your mom? Right? Yeah. Like, despite despite,

[27:11]Guest: in spite, what you know? It's so hard. Right? Maybe you end up they say like the most strict moms sometimes have the most empathetic daughters, right? Because they have had so attuned to every every little, you know, I'm like imagining like grass, like flowing in the wind, you know, like every time the wind shifts, there we go. And moods or temperament or, you know, being so sensitive. That has its pluses

[27:38]Jenny Lee: too. Absolutely. I mean, and that is sort of what I wrote about in the essay. Was like, what about the good things that I received from having parents? Which they gave me, like, a great amount of confidence that if I work hard enough, I could do anything. And hence, you know, I'm written middle grade books. I've written, you know, young adult novels. I'm like, why should maybe I should try TV. And I just came out to LA after I got divorced the first time. I was like, I'm just gonna do this, which and I think it was that sort of confidence that my parents gave me that I was smart and full of doing anything if you will put in the work to do it. And here I am. So, I mean, for that, I am very grateful to them.

[28:13]Guest: I would be very proud if you were my daughter. I would be very proud of you.

[28:18]Jenny Lee: With that mom moment, I'll email you and you can do the same to me and I can give you adulation.

[28:23]Guest: Thank you. Thank you. Yes.

[28:25]Jenny Lee: Not a bad service. I was like, I need a one-eight hundred dial a mom who'll just say the thing and who'd put your book cover on their refrigerator like you see on TV. Those such

[28:35]Guest: things I like put your book up proud. You did it. Yes. Oh. Alright. Well, thank you so much for coming on today and chatting. I always love our interactions and everything. Thanks also again for writing for moms who have time to have kids. Awesome. Thanks, Zibby. Bye. Thanks.

[28:59]Zibby Owens: Thanks so much to Ferity Brand for being my sponsor again. Go to feritybrand.com/zibby for 20% off. Enjoy. Thanks for listening to this episode of Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books. Don't forget to follow me on Instagram at Zibby Owens and at moms don't have time to read books. Also, sign up for my newsletter at zibbyowens.com and sign up for my virtual book club and meet lots of authors on Zoom every other week. Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan at Texture Sound for the sound editing, and thank you to Morning Moon Productions for providing this fantastic intro and outro music.