Wendy Francis, SUMMERTIME GUESTS

[2:05]Zibby Owens: Hi. This is Zippy Owens, and you're listening to the award winning podcast, Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books. I'm also the host of Moms Don't Have Time to Lose Weight, and I'm the editor of the anthology, which you should run out and buy, called Moms Don't Have A Quarantine Anthology. All proceeds of that book go to COVID nineteen vaccine research. And I'm the editor in chief of Moms Don't Have Time to Write, a new publication on Medium, and we're accepting submissions, so please send your personal essays there. If all that isn't enough, you can follow me on Instagram at Zibby Owens, and my website is zibbyowens.com. Okay. Now back to this amazing podcast. Welcome to another day of the June book blast for this podcast. This is rom com Friday, so enjoy all of these fun, lighthearted conversations about different rom coms that I've read and profiled for the podcast. Enjoy. Wendy Francis is the author of Summertime Guests. She's also the author of The Summer Sale, The Summer of Good Intentions, and Three Good Things. A former book editor, she's written for Good Housekeeping, The Washington Post, The Improper Bostonian, and WBUR's Cognizanti. She lives outside Boston with her husband and 11 year old son and has two wonderful stepchildren. Welcome, Wendy. Thank you so much for coming on Mom's No Time to Read Books to discuss summertime guests. Thank you so much for having me, Zibby. I'm so happy to be here. I mean, just the image of this is like making me happy. The image of the cover and the multicolored umbrellas and like laying out by the beach. I'm like, oh, that would be so nice. So anyway.

[3:39]Wendy Francis: I'm glad you like it. Yeah. I think that's a great you know, covers are sort of well, I don't know how it went with your cover, but I feel like you usually see lots of different incarnations of them. And this one,

[3:50]Zibby Owens: the publisher got just right the first time. So yeah, they nailed it. I was actually, when I started reading this book, I was like, is she talking about the ocean house? Was so much similar there were so and then you were like the covered porch. Yeah. The porch. Right. Right. Right. Maybe. But then of course,

[4:08]Wendy Francis: fictitious. It's that in Boston. Yeah. No, I know. But that could definitely have been a model for it. And I think in my mind, I was thinking of this place called Wentworth By The Sea, which is in New Hampshire, which is equally lovely and has its own storied history of presidents coming to visit and dignitaries. And so I sort of imagined that hotel transplanted in Boston by the Boston Fireworks.

[4:34]Zibby Owens: And I saw your note at the end of the book, which was so interesting about what made you write this story and how you actually tell the reader how you thought of the idea and all of that. So can you share

[4:46]Wendy Francis: that story now with us live or whatever? Sure. I'd love to. I think authors have lots of different ideas percolating in their minds. Like, how this be a story? Or might I combine these two things together? And I knew in my mind that I wanted to write your story about the different stages of love and marriages and different iterations. And I thought I wanted to have a young couple newly in love or engaged. And I wanted to have a married couple who just had a baby and are exhausted all the time and trying to figure that out again. And what does this mean for our marriage? And then I wanted to have a more rocky, volatile relationship, maybe two people who are very passionate about each other, but aren't quite sure if they're made to be together for life. And then Claire, who's the protagonist of the book, has been married. I wanted to examine the life of someone who'd been married for a long time and raised a couple of kids, but she's now widowed. And she's always kind of wondered about the one that got away, which is one of the reasons why she comes to Boston. So those love stories were in my mind. And then I kind of stumbled upon the Seaport District, which was this new up and coming neighborhood in Boston that they remodeled. It was basically parked empty, abandoned parking lots. And suddenly it's been transformed into this hip place with all these trendy restaurants and hotels and condos. It's the place to be. And I thought, my family and I were taking a walk there one day. How cool would it be if we had actually had this grand old hotel set on the water way back in the day that had its own sense of history. And why couldn't I set my love stories there and have them all be guests, or in one case, of them is the owner or the manager of the hotel and set it there? So that's kind of how those storylines collided.

[6:35]Zibby Owens: And, yeah, saying it like that makes it seem like this is like a intertwining love story. But really, like, in the opening scene Yes. Of death. I mean Yes. This is not like literally, I was sitting reading, and I hadn't read the back flap in, like, months since I decided to cover it. And I'd, like, start reading. I was like, I went, oh, is this is was there an earthquake? And and there's a body. And I was like, what? And then I, like, flipped it over again. I was like, I better read what this is about. Like, is it a thriller? Like, what did I miss here? I know. Yeah, no, you're absolutely right. And it's

[7:05]Wendy Francis: a little bit of a mystery. I'm not a mystery writer, but this one starts off with a death right in the first chapter. A woman plummets to her death from a hotel balcony. And it seemed like a good way to bring all the storylines together because all these guests are here for a long weekend at this hotel, a summer weekend, and they're in various places in the hotel and in their relationship. When this woman falls, jumps, is pushed, we don't know, to her death in the opening chapter. And so, yeah, I guess that kind of propels the story

[7:37]Zibby Owens: line along. Definitely had me sitting up in my seat. So that was great.

[7:43]Wendy Francis: And you did it so early. Yeah, this is one of the first books where people always ask me, well, do you know the ending and do you plot it out? This one, I knew the ending because I, well, as far as I knew, I knew that a woman died. And so, I guess interestingly enough, wasn't actually a mystery at the beginning. At the beginning, you actually knew who the woman was. And then various revisions, I went back and revised it so she could be a number of or a couple, at least a couple of different people.

[8:12]Zibby Owens: I was really interested in the way you played with time. I always think that it's so it's such a key component to making, like, really interesting fiction, right? When people play with chronology and all that. And yours was, like, spelled out, like, a little before, a little after, like, the week before. I was like, where are we going? You know? So tell me about your decision and how it was to write that way because how did you keep all that? Back and forth. Yes.

[8:40]Wendy Francis: Copious notes. And I think lots of back and forth with my editor and my copy editor. And even up to the last minute, I was making changes in the page proofs because my copy editor caught a scene that was on the television and the hotel managers in two different TV interviews. And in one, he's standing off to the side and the other, he's actually at the front saying something. And then it gets watched by one of the characters in the book and he's in the wrong place. The one that they were watching, my gosh, you're right. So, just tons of going back and making sure this matches this. When did this thing happen? I've got to make sure he's wearing the same clothes or all those kinds of strange little details that you kind of don't think about at the beginning because I'm bad enough at having someone who has blonde hair than has brown hair by the end of the book. And so, trying to get it right in the timeframe was challenging for sure. And I think my inclination is to not spell things out quite so clearly, but I think both my editor and copy editor gave me good advice. It's like, you've just got to ground the reader so we know, is this a week earlier or where are we in the timeline? Because even though it all happens, the story takes place over one long weekend. There are a lot of flashbacks to, especially for Claire, what her life was like before her husband died and for all the characters trying to kind of understand how they've gotten to where they are. So yeah, that took a lot of rewrites to get it I'm sure there's still a few in there that need to be revised, but hopefully not too many.

[10:18]Zibby Owens: I also loved getting to know the French hotel manager, Jean Pierre and Marie and his baby and his wife. I always watch whenever I go to a hotel and I like, like I sort of watch in amazement, like how does someone manage something this complex with so many like, I am planning this retreat in, in November. And the amount of like, stuff I've already had to deal with is like insane.

[10:43]Wendy Francis: And I'm not even running the hotel. So Right. It's like your own little mini wedding reception again and again and again. Like behind the scenes, what's it like to be a manager at one of these amazing hotels? So tell me about that character and how you like, did you do any research? Like, did you tell me tell me about it. Yeah. Yeah. I'm so glad that he struck a chord with you because he's one of my favorites too, just from the perspective of he's trying so hard to hold it all together for the hotel. He's had this death on premises. He's trying to manage the day to day stuff. And then he has his wife at home who's transplanted from their beloved Paris and is now trying to survive at home alone with a new baby. I guess I could really empathize with him and the fact he's trying to do everything right. But in his wife's eyes, he's not there enough and it's hard to please everyone. So, from a character's perspective, it was fun to write his point of view. And I don't often do men sometimes, I guess, right from men's point of view. But I found that he was a very empathetic, easy to identify character to identify with. But in terms of research, yeah, I had a friend of a friend, her husband has managed various hotels. So he was gracious enough to talk to me a couple of times and then answer endless emails and things right up to the pub date. Well, would this have happened? And how would you treat this? Even though he hadn't had a scene that had happened, to the event that it happened like this at his hotel. He could tell me enough stories of things he had heard and people he talked to. And he knew the business and the ins and outs of in your morning meeting, who you meet with and who you check-in with. And then you circle the rounds of the hotel just to make sure that you're on the way. And it's just a nonstop job. He said to me, I think it's in the book, your hotel never sleeps. And I never really thought of it that way. The hotel manager goes home maybe at 08:00 at night. But even while he's sleeping, there's usually a night manager on or assistant manager who's making sure that people aren't partying or nothing crazy is going on. So, there's always something that you have to be thinking about, whether it's stocking, making sure the kitchen has everything, making sure that the hotel is in pristine condition, maybe dealing with customer complaints, making sure it's endless. And I think you really have to be a great people person to be a hotel manager because I don't think I would manage it very well. I think I would get tired of people complaining to me and say, Look, you're in this gorgeous place. How bad can it be?

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[16:34]Zibby Owens: You know, it's funny because I I've been thinking about that too. And then but I think that people put so much pressure on the experience because vacations are so limited and, like, really splurging in terms of price, but really also in terms of time, you want it to be perfect. Right? Like, I only get that's why like like when flights get canceled and it's like, Oh, I had like one day that I've played or two days. So I feel like people might complain more, even though it makes no sense.

[17:09]Wendy Francis: And they're not necessarily their true selves in those settings either. Guests might be more demanding because it has to be the perfect weekend getaway. Like one of the characters in the book has planned this birthday getaway for her boyfriend and she wants everything to go splendidly. And so, think, yeah, there is a heightened pressure that you're kind of not seeing people in their real environment. So, you're not maybe seeing their true personalities. But we love to be spoiled. Love to be spoiled. I want to go sit by the pool on the cover and drink a margarita. Seriously,

[17:45]Zibby Owens: let's do it.

[17:49]Wendy Francis: Well, November will be a little cool probably. But yeah, I think it is a time, a place where you just want to indulge yourself. And somehow hotels managed to do it and then some put up with people's demands.

[18:04]Zibby Owens: But that was a fun part of it for me and trying to figure that world out. There was this and and then, you know, the role of the police chief, like, coming in and questioning people and everything. There was this golf club where I spent some time in the summertime, and I wasn't a part of this, but there was, like, this horrible thing where somebody ended up killing themselves, like on the golf course one day. Oh my gosh. I That's know. It's terrible. And actually, the person was a guest, which I feel like it's so rude. But anyway, real like, anyway, there were like a lot of things, a lot of components to it. But I remember hearing from other people who were there, like, they wouldn't let anyone on the golf course Mhmm. Leave until everyone was questioned. So even if you had to leave and like pick up a kit, well, it was mostly Oh my gosh. So anyway, it was like, actually, it sounds like a novel. Should just like write it down. Yeah. Now that I interview so many authors, everything that happens in life, I'm like, someone should write this novel. Should. I should have. But it's interesting because every it had the same sort of feel as this, where like you're in a beautiful place and everything should be great. And the point of it is leisure and relaxation. And yet all of a sudden, this like gorgeous spot is overrun by police and investigators trying to like solve what actually happened. And was anyone at fault? So, I don't know. Just remind me. Goosebumps.

[19:25]Wendy Francis: Yeah. I think tragically, are a lot of stories like that. And I think at the time I was writing this, there were some news stories about people who had jumped from parking lots and things like that. It just does. Also deathly, deathly is the wrong word, but I'm really afraid of heights. So, the thought of someone falling, jumping, being pushed for a balcony is my worst nightmare. And I think in some ways I got to confront that on the page and think, well, how would this work? And how would this happen? And what would possess someone or to push someone or to jump or to follow? How would this happen? Yet out of my value because I'm much more a writer about friendships and relationships and marriages and things like that. So, it was interesting. For me, it was kind of my usual summertime fair, but with a bit of a twist. Yeah, I had definitely had to do more research for this one, but it made it interesting. But you still had the whole wedding planning element and the mother-in-law

[20:27]Zibby Owens: figure and there's still all that stuff. Yes.

[20:32]Wendy Francis: So many people have commented on the mother-in-law. My poor mother-in-law watched my opening launch virtual event. And there was lots of discussion about the mother-in-law. And right afterwards, she called and said, Great job. But boy, there was a lot about the mother-in-law and there wasn't there. And I hope that wasn't me. And I said, Oh no, she's completely different. She's nothing like them. But I think a lot of people have had that experience or know somebody who has had that experience with this overbearing mother-in-law who wants to relive her wedding day through her own child's wedding. And so, Riley really I shouldn't say she couldn't care less. She wants a charming little wedding with her closest friends and family, but nothing like this big to do that her mother-in-law is hoping for and hoping to plan at the Seafarer Hotel. And so those things are kind of fun to write. But it's curious to me how many people have responded to that. Oh, I can totally identify with Riley. I've heard so many times.

[21:37]Zibby Owens: How long did it take for you to write the book? So probably,

[21:40]Wendy Francis: I'm trying to think, overall, probably about a year and a half. And I wrote a first draft that was not very good. And I sent it to my editor and she had a baby in the meantime. So it took her a little while to get back to me, understandably. And when she did, she had some really good comments on Claire's character, the protagonist. And it's funny to me because when I go back, when I've had a few months and I put the manuscript aside and I go back with my editor's comments, and I've been away from it. I intentionally don't look at it until I get it back for my editor. And you do see stuff that you wouldn't have noticed before because you're so close to it. And I don't know, maybe you felt the same way when you're putting together your anthology. You feel like, oh, this made sense five months ago or whatever. But now, what was I thinking? And so, you do kind of get to be the editor of your own stuff when you have I appreciate having that kind of time gap in between writing the first draft and then the next revision, because you do realize, oh, this really is not a good scene or this isn't working. So yeah, I would say about a year and a half roughly. And what are you working on now? Another summer book, but this one is set in Hull, which is a little it's kind of like a little peninsula outside of Boston again, but it's much more working class, kind of an old fisherman's town or fishing town, I guess. And it used to be known actually back in the day, I want to say like in the 50s, maybe 40s. It was the Coney Island of New England. They had rides, ferris wheels, and it was the place you would go. Kids would go there for school field trips. This was the exciting, fun place to go. And then eventually, I'm not sure the exact families yet, so I won't make names, but a lot of wealthy people summer there in hall. So you had this neat juxtaposition of some of the really wealthy and the working class. And anyway, all along I say, my setting is always a character as much as my characters. And it's about three women who come together in hall for different reasons. I'm still ironing out the plotline. I don't want give too much away. But yeah, that's what I'm working on now. Sounds good. Thank you. So what advice would you give to aspiring authors? Boy, that's a good question. I feel like everyone answers this question so eloquently when they get it. And I never have anything that's original to say. But I do think having been a book editor before I became a writer, I think gave me a little bit of an insight into two things. Publishing isn't just about your book and what you're writing. You get into a publishing house, it's about the marketing and the publicity and the sales. And there are all these different departments. And your relationship with your editor is key. But it's also so important to understand that it's a whole machine that makes your book come to fruition. And I don't think I would have had appreciated that as much if I hadn't been in the business and seen how that worked. So, be grateful and listened. And I think appreciate that there are gifted artists who are working on your cover design. And there are gifted people in marketing and sales who have all these creative ideas that would never occur to you. And just to realize that it is this whole team working on your book. And that's kind of what makes it so great and so exciting when it does finally come out. And then just in terms of writing, I would say revise, revise, revise. That's my biggest piece of advice because it's never going to be perfect. But you have to allow yourself to write your first draft, which often is not good, but at least is close enough to good that you're willing to share it with your editor or your first or second readers. And then just know that you're going to get there. You will eventually get there. And it might take three drafts, it might take five or seven, who knows? But that's okay. And that's part of the process to not get hooked up on, oh, I better revise this chapter one until it's perfect before going on to two, three, and four. You just need to get it out there on the page to get to the book that you want it to be. That I think would be my most important piece of advice. Allow yourself to write something that isn't great to get to the great stuff. Does that make sense? And

[26:12]Zibby Owens: put some really colorful inviting

[26:14]Wendy Francis: umbrellas on your cover. Yes, that's always helpful. Yes, you want to come. That's what I mean. You have to have a great design department who can understand your book. Then yeah, that's a All gorgeous cover on

[26:27]Zibby Owens: right. Well, Wendy, thank you so much. Thanks for coming on Mom's Snow Time to read books. Thank you. Thanks for this great read and yeah, excited to talk to you. Thank you. Thank you so much. And thank you for all that you're doing for authors. It's really phenomenal.

[26:41]Wendy Francis: So thank you for being the champion you. For

[26:44]Zibby Owens: Alrighty. Okay. Take care. You later. Bye bye. Thanks for listening to part of my June Book Blast. I hope you enjoy it. Come back tomorrow for more. Thanks for listening to this episode of Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books. Don't forget to follow me on Instagram Zibby Owens and moms don't have time to read books. Also, up for my newsletter at zibbyowens.com and sign up for my virtual book club and meet lots of authors on Zoom every other week. Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan at Texture Sound for the sound editing, and thank you to Morning Moon Productions for providing this fantastic intro and outro music.