Kwame Onwuachi, NOTES FROM A YOUNG BLACK CHEF

[0:49]Zibby Owens: Hi. This is Zippy Owens and you're listening to the award winning podcast, Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books. I'm also the host of Moms Don't Have Time to Lose Weight, and I'm the editor of the anthology, which you should run out and buy, called Moms Don't Have Time to A Quarantine Anthology. All proceeds of that book go to COVID nineteen Vaccine Research. And I'm the editor in chief of Moms Don't Have Time to Write a New Publication on Medium, and we're accepting submissions, so please send your personal essays there. And if all that isn't enough, you can follow me on Instagram at Zibby Owens, and my website is zibbyowens.com. Okay. Now back to this amazing podcast. Welcome to memoir day of my June book blast. I am releasing a bunch of really powerful, amazing memoir episodes today, and I really hope you enjoy them. Memoir is like favorite literary genre. I don't know what yours is, but I love memoirs. I always learn so much. And this is part one of the memoirs I have to release in this book blast. Enjoy. Kwame Onwuachi is the author of Notes from a Young Black Chef. He's the author of the adult version and also the adapted for young adults version. Kwame is the James Beard Award winning executive chef at Kith Kin in Washington DC. He was born on Long Island and raised in New York City, Nigeria and Louisiana. Onwachi was first exposed to cooking by his mother in his family's modest Bronx apartment. And he took that spark of passion and turned it into a career from toiling in the bowels of oil cleanup ships to working at some of the best restaurants in the world. He has seen and lived his fair share of diversity. Anwachi trained at the Culinary Institute of America and opened five restaurants before turning 30. A former top chef contestant, he has been named Esquire's chef of the year, one of food and wine's best new chefs, and a 30 under 30 honoree by both Zagat and Forbes. And he will tell you about his film adaptation that's going on with Notes From a Young Black Chef. And by the way, this was recommended to me as a must read by Kyle's cousin, Robbie Felice, who owns two restaurants in New Jersey, one of which, Viaggio, is like one of my favorite places ever. So if you ever find yourself in New Jersey, you have to go to Viaggio and ask for Robbie and say that Zippy sent you, FYI. Okay. Enjoy this episode. Thank you, Kwame, for coming on Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books to talk about notes from a young black chef.

[3:09]Kwame Onwuachi: You're welcome. It's great to be here. Thanks for having me. Thanks for having me. No. It's funny. I

[3:14]Zibby Owens: kept going back and forth. I have both the grown up version and the younger readers version. And so I would like read part of it and then I would go back to the adult version and it's so funny. And again, So the sort of, I don't know, down and dirty, you know, vocabulary the sec for the other one. Anyway, it was it was really funny. Awesome. It's like it's like the kids bop version. Exactly. I have two teenagers. I have four kids, but my I was reading it out loud to to my older kids. And anyway, they loved it. So I was trying to get them roped in. But anyway, well, congratulations on this memoir, which was really, really amazing. I don't know when you found time to also write this book after and remember everything as clearly as you did. For listeners who aren't as familiar with you, would you mind telling a little bit about what made you write this memoir to begin with? Obviously it was such an inspiring story, but just what made you turn it into a book and take the time to even do that?

[4:12]Kwame Onwuachi: Well, I think everyone has a story, most importantly. And you gotta put yourself out there and believe in yourself. And writing this book, I knew that it would impact people in different ways, understanding a different perspective of yours, feeling validated from feelings of oppression in different ways, Giving a snapshot into life, it's like to come up and find dining or catering just in the food industry in general from a younger perspective. I think chefs are changing. We're multifaceted now. We're not stuck in a box. So it's given me the opportunity to write books like this, to open up nail polish companies and media companies and things like that. And I think it's special. And probably most importantly, I think everyone has a story to tell. And that's what this book is really, really about. Well, I love like in the book how during one of your first big events, you tried to get everybody's attention and you stood up on a chair and you're like, I'm the one cooking your meal. Like, come on over here. Come here. I feel like that's what you're doing with this book. You're just like, okay, take, let's have a little time together. This is important. Listen up. I just love that. Yeah. Yeah. I remember that day so clearly and it really, the funny part is it's because I needed more time to plate up my dishes for the first course. It was long story and I saw how engaged people were.

[5:31]Zibby Owens: And that's when I knew I think I had something special. Wow. You write a lot about your ability to kind of go back and forth into different worlds, right? And your ability sometimes to appear very guarded and just like keep your emotions, your head down, your emotions in check. And then in other times, just that you can adapt to basically any circumstance. You even had a quote, you said, My ability to slide through these two different worlds was my greatest assets in those years. Tell me a little bit about

[6:01]Kwame Onwuachi: that and how your sort of ability to fit in everywhere and yet keep your most private stuff in check has helped you out in your career? Yeah, you know, I think definitely being a chameleon has helped me in my lifetime. I really think that you shouldn't ever change who you are, but you should be open to other people's perspectives. That's And the way that I was able to switch to different worlds. Whether I was in the South Bronx or I was in the Upper East Side, it was really about not thinking that my perspective was the only perspective, like really listening and getting in tune with other people. And that's really what made me, you know, as successful as I am. Well, it certainly

[6:46]Zibby Owens: can help with everything. And I mean, you were so open in the book about your relationship with your dad. And I think that when you are in a relationship that requires you to sort of feel like you're auditioning for someone who's supposed to love you, it gives you that extra sensory skill to adapt and everything. Can you tell me just talk a little bit more about your relationship with your dad and the sort of the abuse that you had to deal with, you know, even down to not, you know, after he gave you the jeep in the middle of the book and in the middle of the book, in the middle of your life, and how you got that Jeep and everything. Then like when you got arrested crazily that one night, which was ridiculous, how he wouldn't even like get the Jeep back. I mean, I know that's like the just the end of the whole thing and not such a big example compared to the things you referenced. But anyway, tell me a little about that.

[7:37]Kwame Onwuachi: Yeah, you know, it's something that I've kind of like grown to kind of like forgive from afar because there's no book on parenting, you know, and also thinking about the black experience in the eighties of feeling free for the first time and also dealing with, you know, the injection of drugs into our communities, you know, from people that are supposed to be helping us like the CIA and stuff like that. It's hard to even for me to like be upset anymore. But it doesn't make me forget to the point where I want to have a relationship. But it's now that I have a lot of a greater knowledge of, you know, what the mental capacity was of someone of color in that timeframe, just doing their best. It's part of being a human being having some empathy with that. Now, the abuse that came from that, I think it molded me into the person that I am today. There's definitely a lot of negative things that are still with me about the trauma, but it was something that directly correlated to my craft and my industry. Because when you're in the kitchen, you have to be very focused and meticulous. You can't make any mistakes. And I wasn't allowed to make any mistakes when I was a little kid. So it just transferred over to that. And it's not a good thing, but it is a byproduct of that abuse.

[8:54]Zibby Owens: Well, I'm really sorry that that happened to you. And, you know, the chart on the wall. I mean, the whole thing, I'm just so sorry. Not that you need to hear this from me, but just as one of your bazillion readers, it broke my heart to have to read that what you went through as a child. So anyway.

[9:07]Kwame Onwuachi: I really appreciate that. I really do, honestly.

[9:10]Zibby Owens: So you got your start essentially, you know, with your mom's catering business and then on the ship. And by the way, that scene, you told it in such a visual way. I feel like I watched the movie of this whole thing sort of playing out and how you in every instance, you just take the situation and you're like, I'm gonna figure it out. I'm just gonna do it. I'll figure it out once I get there. And then you do, and you, like, rise to the occasion. Do you feel like you're, that's just like a gift, sort of that's just like innate part of your personality? Do you think that's something that can be taught?

[9:44]Kwame Onwuachi: No, it can be taught, but it has to become a habit first. Like you have to like really practice it. I'm very free spirited. I live my life off the wall. I go where the wind blows. So for me, it's like I'm myself no matter what. I walk into Jay Z's house and still just be my silly self. Or I'll walk into my grandma's house and still be my silly self. And I think when you're just unapologetically, can roll with the punches because you know it's not going to last. You know, a painful moment is a moment that doesn't it's not a painful eternity. So when you really think about it like that, even feelings, you know, when I'm sad, I'm like, this feeling is going pass. I'm going to see something that's going to make me laugh, you know, in the next four hours, no matter how sad I am. So when you think about that, then you start anticipating and looking for the rainbow and looking for those sunny days and then turning those rainy days into sunny days and then just appreciating those rainy days because you've been through sunny days. So I think it's something that, I don't know, I guess it's a gift, you know, that I'm able to just like, it is what it is. Shit, let's drink. I don't know, you know, it's like just have a good time all the time instead of, you know, really getting in your head and internalizing things because it's not that serious. Like, however serious you think it is, no one is thinking it's that serious. And if anybody, you know, if you're ever having a bad time or a bad day and, you know, someone sees that and jumps on that, kind of kicks you when you're down, I just negate those people from my life or what they were trying to do because nobody that actually cares about me would kick me while I'm down. They would pick me up. So yeah, I mean, it's something that you have to work on. You have to work on positivity and positive thinking every single day. I feel like part of the narrative in the book was almost like the narrow escape, right? All the odds stacked against you at the beginning. Not that you didn't have amazing influences like your trip to Nigeria and, you know, your grandfather and like, you know, obviously, you're super bright and all the rest. But like,

[11:51]Zibby Owens: there were so many times in the book when you were deep into drug dealing or the moment where you turned your life around that day in the apartment and whatever, where you just didn't have to. Like, you could have just not done that, obviously, but you did. And you, you know, so many other people did not or were not able to, you know, turn difficult circumstances into how you have created your whole personality and your career and all the contributions and everything. What does it feel like to have been that one? Do you feel like there's like, not that you're the only one, but do you feel like there's a responsibility to like go back and help others and I don't know.

[12:33]Kwame Onwuachi: Yeah, there's definitely responsibility because like my story is unique to me. I was able to get out of situations and turn my life around and build my life up. And I don't think everyone has those opportunities, you know. So I do realize that there's a bit of probably just privilege, but privilege in the sense of my tenacity that I keep going no matter what. And I know everyone is not wired that way. There are people with mental health issues. There are people that don't have the mental dexterity to even push through those moments because they've been beaten down so much. You know, they've gone through worse child abuse than I have. So like, I'm never going to sit up here holier than now, but I do think it's my obligation to then reach back and help out people. And I think it all starts with mentorship. You know, it starts with access to information. It starts with access to different cultures. And I think with that, we can make the world a better place. Today's episode is sponsored by Quince.

[13:31]Zibby Owens: Summer always makes me rethink what I'm reaching for every day. Lighter fabrics, better materials, pieces that just feel good the moment you put them on and look effortless. That's why I keep coming back to Quince. They focus on high quality essentials. Think breathable linen, soft organic cotton, washable silk, but without the luxury markup. It's that rare balance where everything feels elevated but still easy. Quince has beautiful everyday pieces like 100% European linen pants, dresses, and tops with styles starting at $32. Their denim is soft and easy to wear. I wear my jean jacket all the time. And their organic cotton sweaters are perfect for layering on cool summer nights. Everything at Quince is priced 50 to 80% less than similar brands. Quince works directly with ethical factories and cuts out the middlemen, so you're paying for quality, not brand markup. And it's not just clothing. Quince has really become a destination for elevated essentials across home, kitchen, bedding, and beyond, making it easy to bring a more premium feel into everyday life. In addition to my jean jacket, I recently got a white tank top dress with a beautiful cotton skirt that is absolutely gorgeous, and I can't wait for it to be warm enough so I can wear it every day, but it has been a cool spring. Elevate your summer wardrobe. Go to quince.com/zippy for free shipping on your order and three hundred and sixty five day returns. Now available in Canada too. That's Q U I N C E Dot Com Slash Zippy for free shipping and three hundred and sixty five day returns. Quince.com/zippy.

[16:40]Zibby Owens: Very true. Now that you're now that the book is out in the world, have you do people do you find that people look at you in a different way now that they know? Or do you feel like anything that you revealed has changed relationships in your life?

[16:56]Kwame Onwuachi: No. Nothing's changed relationships. I would say it's definitely strange people walk up and say like, hey, how's Jewel? I'm like, How do get my mom's name? I'm like, Oh, shit. You know, or they talk about the school that I went to or something. It's very surreal in that regard. But no relationships have changed. If anything, they've gotten stronger. You know, me being able to tell my truth and my perspective of how, you know, my life went. But yeah, it's all exciting. It's exciting that it's being turned into a movie. Know, that's gonna be another wave when people get to see it visually. Yeah, tell me the details of that.

[17:29]Zibby Owens: What can you say?

[17:31]Kwame Onwuachi: A24 is producing it, know, the company behind Moonlight and Uncut Gems and other movies of that caliber and LaKeith Stanfield is playing me in the movie, which is pretty cool. So yeah, mean, think I don't think it's really gonna hit me until I'm sitting down eating popcorn watching someone portray me, you know, on a on a giant screen. I think that and try to look like me and stuff, I think that's gonna be really, really interesting.

[17:55]Zibby Owens: Yeah. I mean, gosh, if you thought this was surreal, that's gonna be crazy. I have to say, I first heard about your book from another chef. So I feel like that's like the highest accolade. My husband's cousin is Robbie Feliz who owns this restaurant called Biagio, and he was just like, this is the greatest story ever. And what and I was reading it, I was like, oh, this is gonna be a great movie. This is amazing. So I don't know. To have another chef sort of love it is

[18:21]Kwame Onwuachi: That's a stamp. That's a stamp of what we need.

[18:25]Zibby Owens: How do you feel about having to do like publicity interviews? Do you hate it? Do you like, what do you think? Oh, I like it. I like it. I mean, at first it was very tough and very stiff,

[18:35]Kwame Onwuachi: you know, but I think now I'm a bit more relaxed and more comfortable with my skin. You know, that's come over come with time. It's coming from failing and not giving a crap anymore. You know, I think I failed in in in failed in the sense of the word that other people use. I don't look at it as a failure, but it's like I had something that did not work out to the way that I wanted it to, but it taught me so much. But with that happening, it was like, Screw it. I'm gonna just beat myself because you're gonna hate me regardless for something that I have no control over. So you might as well hate me because I'm being me unapologetically. And now the interviews and all of it is just like, it's like I'm talking to a friend.

[19:13]Zibby Owens: Awesome. Well, tell me about the nail polish. What's that about?

[19:17]Kwame Onwuachi: I like wearing nail polish. You know, I started because I have my nieces, I get my nieces every summer and one time I took them to the salon and they were like, if I can get my nails done with them. And I came out and I loved them so much. So yeah, I started this nail polish line that'll be sold everywhere soon and yeah, pretty exciting. And what about more fashion stuff? I loved your sort of, I feel like the book should have been sponsored by Prada or something like that. Maybe you could do some cross marketing, kind of get it for sale at the checkout. Yeah, you know, I love fashion so much. I think it's also an expression just like I like now. It's an expression of who you are And you're able to really, you know, you're able to put on a costume for a day and go out into the world and be representative of how you want to look. And I think it's fun. Clothes are really fun. Clothes are really intricate. I think they carry a story just like a dish, just like a song, just like a film. And that's something that's always been prevalent in my life. I've always invested a lot in the way that I look.

[20:16]Zibby Owens: Awesome. Well, you've got great glasses. Those are really like from the fifties. No. They're very cool. I was struck in the back when you you it was a point in your life where you were really struggling for money. And you said you had gone about three years without with your glasses being crooked because you hadn't even stopped to fix them. You know, now here you are with these like gorgeous glasses.

[20:38]Kwame Onwuachi: Those

[20:40]Zibby Owens: rainy days will make you appreciate the sunny ones. So, yeah. Another thing was how you realized with the cooking, and I think this goes for anybody, even just the most basic home cook, that the best part was showing how much you care through your food and creating that sense of home. And almost, you know, my husband cooks a lot and he's always like, you you can taste the love, you can taste it. It's different if I make this dish if you have it in a restaurant because I'm doing it with all of me. Tell me about how you use that in your life and how that's informed your sense of cooking for everybody.

[21:16]Kwame Onwuachi: Yeah, well, think when a dish tells a story, it has a soul. You're not just cooking for perfect seasoning, you're cooking to share something with someone, some nostalgia, story and experience. And I think, you you do have to cook with love and you can taste the difference when you're cooking for someone that you really care about. You're going to make sure every thing is perfect with that. And, you know, I think you can really get to know someone on a plate and can get to know someone's culture on a plate. It's one of the only art forms you ingest. Food is so poetic in that way that you can even see who has been within a region based off of the food that is served. If there were some sort of Asian community in an area, if there was

[22:05]Zibby Owens: European community in an area based on the ingredients that are there, can always trace back ingredients to a certain place. So I think food is beautiful. It always should tell a story. You should always put your soul into it. And if you don't, if you wouldn't serve it to the person that you love the most, don't put the dish up. That's normally what I tell my cooks in the restaurant. I loved your idea when you had the seven course meal of basically telling your life story through the courses. I was thinking to myself, I was like, how would I even tell my life story through the course? Like, what would like, you've had such an interesting story and I'm like, I don't know. I live like five blocks from where I grew up. This I'd be so boring. I would be it would be like cinnamon toaster. I don't even know. It's like the same stuff I've been having my whole life. Hey.

[22:43]Kwame Onwuachi: You do a a bacon, egg, and cheese course and a cinnamon toast crunch course and coffee. Do it. I got faith in

[22:52]Zibby Owens: That's funny. So what do you eat like on a normal basis? Like what do you have for breakfast today?

[22:58]Kwame Onwuachi: I didn't eat breakfast today. My mom is making chitlins and I am saving my appetite to eat a big bowl of it. She is in town right now.

[23:06]Zibby Owens: Dishes and no one eats it anymore because they think it's disgusting. And I'm just like more for me. So I can't wait until it's ready. I can't wait. You spoke, you wrote about your mom and with such respect, by the way, I feel like as a mom, I would only hope my kids would write about it. I feel like everything you would not you see her in like every way and you saw her struggles and you saw her gifts and just all of it. She was like a full on multi dimensional person. And I feel like some people only have the sliver of their parents that they can see in relation to themselves. And that was totally not the case here.

[23:42]Kwame Onwuachi: Yeah, no, I mean, she's been my mentor for the past, like ten years, solid, solid, strong. Like any question I have, I go to her, I don't really have mentors in the food world. So it was like, it was more like she was trying to guide me through my life based off of like what she would have done differently. Remember even ten years ago, this is when I first knew I could ask her a question and she wouldn't treat me like her son. She'd treat me like her. So it was when the iPhone first came out, the very first iPhone, it had to be like twelve years ago, thirteen years ago. And I saved up for it. I had like a thousand dollars. I don't know how I saved that up, but I did. And I was like 18 years old. And I was like, Ma, I really want this phone. She was like, How much is it? I I was like, I think it's like a thousand dollars all in. She's like, That's when phones work a thousand dollars. Phones at the most for $200 That was an expensive phone, like a Razer phone or something. But she's like, That's a ridiculous amount of money to spend on a phone. I was like, I get it, but I have it. She was like, that's irresponsible. I was like, okay, think of it this way. If you were my age and you had no bills, no children, I had a job and I had a thousand dollars saved up. You had a thousand dollars saved up and you really, really wanted it. Would you get it? She was like, absolutely. Like, of course I would take it. Now that you put it that way, of course I would get it. And at that moment, I was like, I can actually come to her for advice. And she wouldn't treat me like, if I call my grandma and ask her if I could buy a phone. She'd like, Are you kidding? You know how many meals I can cook with $1,000 and how much this is, that and the third? And it's like, Well, I'm not in your shoes. So like, think about me in my shoes, please. I need advice to an elder. And my mom, she navigated me throughout the world. I really give her a lot of credit for the past ten years of my life. Wow.

[25:27]Zibby Owens: That's amazing. Love that. So you have your regular adult book. You have the

[25:34]Kwame Onwuachi: younger readers book. Are you going to make a children's book, like a picture book for? I really want to actually. I really want to make a children's book, like a picture book. I want to do a children's cookbook. I want to do an animated series, like a children's animated series. So yeah, I have a lot of ideas in this crazy head that I want to put out into the world. Awesome. And is there anything that you're actively focused on now, so all these other things have to wait? Like what's taking up most of your time? Most of my time is this event called the Family Reunion that I'm doing with Food and Wine Magazine at Salamander Resort and Spa in Virginia. And it's a food conference that's celebrating all the contributions of Black and brown people to the food industry that so many times go unnoticed. So, you know, I have like 47 people coming out and doing panel discussions and breakout sessions and demonstrations and events. And it's a lot of coordination. I was telling my culinary director, I was like, this is like the only thing harder than this has been opening a restaurant. There's so many moving parts. But it's taken up a lot of my time, but it's a lot of fun.

[26:38]Zibby Owens: Want it to be inaugural. So like once we get it right this first year, next year would be a little bit easier. That's awesome. I'm doing something on a much smaller scale, but I'm doing a retreat in November with like 40 participating authors and all sorts of panels and all of this stuff and rooms and assignments. And I'm like, oh my gosh. You know? And I made the mistake of getting involved with like who the rooms. And next thing you know, like everyone's like, okay, well, you know, for the meals, like I keep kosher. Is there, you know, I have like celiac, like, duh, duh, duh. Like every, I was like, okay, hold on. Like there's so many of you. I can't keep this all straight. Like hold on. I'm doing other things. So yeah. Yep. It's a lot. It's a lot. I get it.

[27:20]Kwame Onwuachi: Event planning is, it's a nightmare. I'm just going to say it.

[27:25]Zibby Owens: Mean, but you know it's going to be great in the end. It's worth it. Amazing

[27:28]Kwame Onwuachi: in the end. It's just getting to that finish line. That's the most important part. So do you have any advice for aspiring authors? Oscar Write it down, make it happen. That's it. Just start writing. Take it one day at a time. If you want to write a memoir, I would write out the coolest points of your life or most interesting points of your life and then try to bridge them together harmoniously. But it's a process that took me two years to write this book. And it was, that's probably in order of hard, it's restaurant is the hardest, then event, then book. So it's right up there with like hardest things you're gonna do in your life. There's so many editing. I mean, read the book probably like 37 times, so it's like, and then it's cathartic, you know? You're reliving these moments that you tried to like hide away and not talk about ever again. Or you're reliving moments where you can celebrate and realize that you did have an interesting life or you have come a long way. So I would just, you know, just start it. It's the only thing you can do is start. Awesome.

[28:32]Zibby Owens: Well, thank you so much for your time and I hope you go enjoy your mom's great meal. Yeah, I will. All right. Take care. Thank you. Bye bye. Thanks for listening to part of my June Book Blast. I hope you enjoy it. Come back tomorrow for more. Thanks for listening to this episode of Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books. Don't forget to follow me on Instagram at Zibby Owens and at moms don't have time to read books. Also, sign up for my newsletter at zibbyowens.com and sign up for my virtual book club and meet lots of authors on Zoom every other week. Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan at Texture Sound for the sound editing, and thank you to Morning Moon Productions for providing this fantastic intro and outro music.

[29:45]Zibby Owens: Save big money at Menards.