Lauren Weisberger, WHERE THE GRASS IS GREEN AND THE GIRLS ARE PRETTY

[2:16]Zibby Owens: Hi. This is Zippy Owens, and you're listening to the award winning podcast, Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books. I'm also the host of Moms Don't Have Time to Lose Weight, and I'm the editor of the anthology, which you should run out and buy, called Moms Don't Have Time To, a Quarantine Anthology. All proceeds of that book go to COVID nineteen vaccine research. And I'm the editor in chief of Moms Don't Have Time To Write, a new publication on Medium, and we're accepting submissions. So please send your personal essays there. And if all that isn't enough, you can follow me on Instagram ZibbyOwens and my website is zibbyowens.com. Okay, now back to this amazing podcast. Today's sponsor is the Baby Trend Cover Me four in one Convertible Car Seat. This car seat is so unique. It addresses the number one complaint by experienced mothers, which I believe I am, which is sun in your kid's eyes, which is something that of course drives them nuts and you're not going want to put like what baby sunglasses on. That's never really worked for me. Along with the canopy, the Cover has a usage rating from four to 100 pounds, so you can use it for a long time, and can be used infant rear facing, toddler rear facing, forward facing, and belt positioning booster. The Cover Me also has a very convenient recline system, which includes a zero radio base and integrated recline flip foot. I don't exactly know what that means, but that's okay. The system allows the children to find a position comfortable to them and also limits the amount of space taken up by the seat when in rear facing position. Basically, it's just an amazing car seat, and I wish I had had this when my kids were little enough to fit into car seats. It makes parents' and kids' life much easier. It's just amazing, and it has a UPF 50 plus on the canopy so your kids don't get a sunburn either. So your kids will love sitting in it, they can interact with everybody in the car, and it protects you both rear and forward facing. There is a special 20% off code which is CoverMe20 If you go to babytrend.com/ossa,ossa. That's httpsdouble/babytrend.com/ossa and put in the code CoverMe20. Capital c, Cover, capital m, Me, the number 20. Also, I'm giving away one of these car seats. So if you or anyone you know is having a baby soon and would like a new car seat, which is something that you have to get as soon as you're pregnant, I am giving one away. To win the giveaway, just write a review and give a rating to my podcast, preferably a five star rating and a really nice review if you don't mind. Extra credit if you do the same thing for my moms don't have time to lose weight podcast and my moms don't have time to have sex podcast. If you could do five star ratings and reviews for all of those podcasts, oh my gosh, you will definitely be at the top of the list for entering this giveaway. And then we will pick at random. So enter the giveaway, use the code if you just want to get the percent off and order it right away. And again, baby trend cover me four in one convertible car seat, go for it. Welcome to another day of my podcast book blast. Today, I'm featuring a bunch of events that I did live that are now podcasts. So they might have a slightly different audio sound or whatever, but they're all grouped together by recent events I did that are worthwhile listening to for sure on this podcast. So go back and listen. And if you wanna watch them, they're all available on YouTube or Facebook or anywhere you find all my video content, and you can get to them also through Instagram. Anyway, enjoy these previously live events now recorded. I did an event recently with Lauren Weisberger, whose latest book, which already hit the bestseller list, is called Where the Grass is Green and the Girls Are Pretty. She's also the author of The Devil Wears Prada, which, as you may know, became a fabulous movie with Streep Meryl and is actually now in the process of being turned into a Broadway musical. And also, it's being turned into a Broadway musical by Paul Rudnick, who is writing the script, he has also recently been on the podcast. So, anyway, how do you like that? Anyway, Lauren and I did this event for Barnes and Noble, and they streamed it on their Facebook and YouTube channels. And the best part about it is that we did it in person. So the two of us were together sitting at my desk. She's like the first person I'd seen in forever, and we had so much fun chatting and everything else. And by the way, she sent me a thank you gift, which was a pineapple corer, which you will understand after you listen to this episode. Enjoy. So there we go. That's you. And I'm so happy to be here. We're actually, like, in person and together. I know. Vaccinated and side by side. It's so nice. It's terrific. It is. It's really nice. It's a big adjustment having an actual other person nearby. Is. Sort of forget how to talk to people. I know. Yeah. I'm a little nervous about it. The same. Maybe you gotta jump back in the screen here. I know. So where the oh, and just so everybody knows, if you want a signed copy of this amazing book, Where the Grass is Green and the Girls Are Pretty, you can get it on BNN, barnesandnoble.com. But if you get it in the stores, it's not signed, but it's still great. So Perfect. Okay. Alright. Yes. Would you mind telling everybody what this book is about, please? Of course. And congratulations.

[7:29]Lauren Weisberger: Thank you. Thank you. It's an exciting week. This book is really a first and foremost, I think it's a sister's book. I've wanted to write a sister's book for a really long time. And it is inspired a lot by my own sister, Dana. She is we have an extremely close relationship. And while I wouldn't say that either of the characters in this novel, they're not based on her, they're not based on me, but the way that we talk to each other and the way that we relate to each other, the dialogue that we share, I think, really finds its way into this book. Sisters are brutal. Brutal honesty, no filter, all times, all costs. They just tell it how it is. And I very much hope to recreate that with my two sisters. So their names are Peyton and Max. Peyton is a morning news anchor, super type A, very, very ambitious, very interested in sort of constructing the perfect life. She has a 17 year old daughter, Max, that she is trying to make as perfect as she is, working very hard to get her into the best college imaginable. And then her sister, Peyton's sister, Skye, a little crunchier. She's a little she's always worked in nonprofits and education. And she's currently, I would say, a frustrated stay at home mom in a pretty competitive affluent suburb of New York City called Paradise. Thank you. Guns and roses on.

[8:54]Zibby Owens: I love how you described Skye's room, by the way. Like, that's all you needed to know. It was like the rope chair and, like, the headboard and the pillows. And I don't know. I can't remember the exact details, but it painted the picture perfectly. Like, I understand who this woman is, like, just by how it works. Yes, yes, yes. I know exactly what you mean. Those details can be very telling. Yes, Well, the thing about sisters though, in this book, there was a lot of debate on is there a limit to the love? Like, feel like, so Peyton has this secret that she doesn't know if she should tell, and is that secret gonna be the one thing that maybe Sky won't accept? And so there's this big question mark. Do you feel like, tell me about that and putting that in. There is, I know that was, you know, and without

[9:39]Lauren Weisberger: giving too much away, that was really something that I thought was interesting. Like these sisters have, they're very close in age. They've been raised together from the beginning, and they there's nothing they don't share. What would be something that they can't talk about? What would be something that really threatens, you know, both of their worlds, their families, has these ripple effects extend beyond just their relationship. I think when you start bringing in children and husbands and parents, like that's a whole different story. And that is what happens. I was really interested in exploring that. And it's sort of all set in this town that this backdrop of a really, you know, hyper competitive, really intense place where parents will go to any length to give their kids every advantage, which is something that we don't think I think is so unusual in New York City and suburbs of New York City, but it extends so far beyond that. I mean, this happens all over the country for sure in towns all across America now. And I just thought it would be really interesting to see when you put two seemingly normal sisters in this world of where they're kind of asked to bump up against these things. Like,

[10:58]Zibby Owens: how far will they go? What will it be like? How will they react? There's also this whole question, and it doesn't have to be with siblings, but it's like, what could you do to push away the person who loves you most? Like, if I did this, would that be it?

[11:12]Lauren Weisberger: Like, almost like, what can you get away with? What are you afraid to admit? I feel like everybody has these, like, shameful things on some level that they're like, Well, no one will love me if they know XYZ. Right, right. What like what are the boundary lines of unconditional? We say like unconditional. That's a better word. There aren't many people who fall into that category, right? I mean, each person has very few if you're lucky at all to have any. But really, like what is unconditional?

[11:36]Zibby Owens: So And I love this whole being swept into the mom madness because as a mom of four kids and you have two kids, it's like you can either jump on that bandwagon and like go every to travel soccer game imaginable and like get on every team and do everything, or like you have to really make a stand. And I feel like it starts really early and it extends all the way through college, right? There's no time off in like the rat race. And you did such a good job of sort of making it all seem like, well, of course, this is the next natural step because why wouldn't it be? Right, right, right. It is. It's really

[12:10]Lauren Weisberger: that was part of, you know, my kids and your kids, they're not at the college admission stage yet. But it begins so much, so much earlier than that. It begins in preschool. It begins even earlier than that. And it's really it does. It like makes you question. It makes you kind of wonder like, is this, are we doing the right things for these kids? And I am not exempt from this. I spend like my entire life that I'm not working or writing, like driving children to activities and like helicoptering their lives while questioning whether I'm helicoptering their lives too much. You know, it's hard to know. It's a balance you wanna give your kids. You wanna expose them to all the things you can and you wanna give them every possible advantage. But when is it too much? And that was something that I really thought about in this book. You know, I think when you have a situation like this whole the the college admission scandal, the Varsity Blue scandal that we all watched unfold. And and you have a situation where somebody's gonna put your kit you know, your kit on a rowing machine and take pictures of them as a rower, they've never rowed a day in their life. We can say, that's not a good idea. You know, this is unethical and illegal and that's just not the way to go. But there's so many shades of gray just below that. So many different advantages and that's one of the things that Peyton sort of goes through this struggle. Well, we've picked the very best private schools and the very best coaches and the very best tutors and counselors and like, you know, where do you draw the line? And I just think it's kind of an interesting question and not one that only like the 1% deal with. I think it's something that, you know, all across the country now with these everything becoming sort of so kid focused, it's really, it's kind of interesting to say like,

[13:54]Zibby Owens: what are we all doing here? And where should we stop? And where should we stop? And what's it gonna take to get people to stop? Because clearly the college admissions scandal, I'm not sure that was the I'm not sure I'm not

[14:05]Lauren Weisberger: sure either. I think it's unhappy kids at the end of the day that's gonna make us all stop, but I'm not I'm not sure. I mean, Max didn't seem particularly happy. Not particularly happy. That's true. Max says Peyton's 17 year old daughter. Yeah. By the way, I just loved in your Instagram how you had outfits and, like, things you could buy for each That of the was so clever. I just loved that in terms of, a great book marketing idea. Oh, thank you. And it's funny. It just like the bedroom details, it kinda gives you, like, a quick shortcut into looking,

[14:35]Zibby Owens: you know, what are these characters like? Yes. It was so it was and like, anyway, the Doc Martens. I mean, I know you referenced it in the book as well, but just seeing it, it almost could have been my teenager. But like not any the Doc Martens, but the sweatshirt and the anyway, I was like, oh, gosh. You know? And then all the pressure of anyway. All of it. I know. There's also even this relationship between this high powered wife and her husband. And that was like another dynamic that I found really interesting, right? That Peyton has this big, big job and she's this morning news anchor and she's so famous and she goes to these, you know, cafes and sits and gets a glass of wine and everybody's just like falling all over her. And her husband is this amazing, supportive guy, and yet he's more like in the wings. And yet when a scandal breaks, like what happens then? So it's also an investigation of like how much, you know, the same way she's pushing away her sister, like with her husband too. It's like,

[15:27]Lauren Weisberger: are things forgiven? Are they not forgiven? Right, right, right. It's true. You know, how much can even we agree, we find out very early on that they have like a very strong marriage and they're happy together. They're a really good partnership. They're a good partnership raising their daughter. And like you said, he's incredibly supportive, but like how much elasticity is there really, like until something happens. And, you know, I think I do kind of explore that. But, you know, Peyton as a character was so fun for me to write. Like, she's just, she's so type A and she's so ambitious and she's so intense. And I think like maybe not academically we find out, but brilliant. And I'm in awe of these, you know, like news anchors who do this, you know, I've said it before, but like I am bordering on obsessed with them, and how they go into this, you know, this studio every day. And, you know, I get like nervous on Zoom. But like they go into a studio and they have like an earpiece in and they're saying to themselves, like news is breaking and they have to process it and distill it for tens of millions of households that are watching them live. And I'm just so I'm in awe and impressed by people. And that was like, in particular, her job scenes were really

[16:49]Zibby Owens: fun for me to write for that reason. Yeah. I don't know how they do that. It's pretty awesome. Yeah. It's But you you also root it in, like, great conversation skills. Because even when you show these scenes where in college, like, Peyton and Skye will go to the professor's house and Skye's, like, very shy and socially awkward and was afraid of her sister what she would say, and yet she can go in and start talking about the dog or, you know, I won't even reference here the other things that they were talking about. It's a little extra You just can't. Yeah. I just won't. But just that she has a way of putting everybody at ease. And that has nothing to do with where you go to school or who you are. And in fact, it's almost like the major point of the book. Not the major point, but one point is like, all these things do not matter. It's who you are. Can you talk to people? Can you find out like, what's new with this person or what makes them tick or how's their dog? Or I don't know. Absolutely. And that's nothing that anyone can teach and it doesn't matter who you bribe to get into what school. Nope, none of that matters at all. And in these, and it's the kind of irony of this, again, without giving too much away is that these two sisters like completely,

[17:54]Lauren Weisberger: you know, one went to like a very prestigious school, the other struggled a whole lot with her education. And like they took this crossover in like, in adulthood where they ended up in sort of opposite ways than one would expect based on this background. But you know, it is interesting. Like these Peyton's extra, I guess it's just like her extroverted personality, like you said, that like comfort and ability to talk to people, to walk into a room, to talk to anyone, to find a common ground is a special skill that will take you much further than all of that. Today's episode is sponsored by Quince.

[18:30]Zibby Owens: Summer always makes me rethink what I'm reaching for every day. Lighter fabrics, better materials, pieces that just feel good the moment you put them on and look effortless. That's why I keep coming back to Quince. They focus on high quality essentials. Think breathable linen, soft organic cotton, washable silk, but without the luxury markup. It's that rare balance where everything feels elevated but still easy. Quince has beautiful everyday pieces like 100% European linen pants, dresses, and tops with styles starting at $32. Their denim is soft and easy to wear. I wear my jean jacket all the time. And their organic cotton sweaters are perfect for layering on cool summer nights. Everything at Quince is priced 50 to 80 percent less than similar brands. Quince works directly with ethical factories and cuts out the middlemen, so you're paying for quality, not brand markup. And it's not just clothing. Quince has really become destination for elevated essentials across home, kitchen, bedding, and beyond, making it easy to bring a more premium feel into everyday life. In addition to my jean jacket, I recently got a white tank top dress with a beautiful cotton skirt that is absolutely gorgeous, and I can't wait for it to be warm enough so I can wear it every day, but it has been a cool spring. Elevate your summer wardrobe. Go to quince.com/zippy for free shipping on your order and three hundred and sixty five day returns. Now available in Canada too. That's quince.com/zibby for free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com/zibby.

[21:25]Zibby Owens: Hoping as all of our kids get older that everybody agrees that it doesn't matter where people go to college. Right. Right. Right. Like, everybody just okay, forget it. You know, there'll be great educations in a million places. And even if it's not so great, like Everyone's

[21:38]Lauren Weisberger: gonna be just Just fine. Yeah. Yeah. Right values and whatever. Yeah. Agreed. I know. So tell me about coming up with the idea for this because you've had all these amazing books and you just keep coming up with interesting plots. Where did this idea even originally come from? Like, where where did the characters come from? Like, was Peyton fully formed in your mind? Like, tell me how it all. Yes, well, like I have, I've really thought forever about writing a book about sisters and it never really felt like the right time before, but it did now. Was just so excited to kind of get in there and try. My favorite part of writing overall always is the dialogue. So I really wanted to have a chance to put these two women in scenes together and have them talk to each other the way that real sisters do. I just was excited by that idea. And then, you know, but the challenging part of this one was that I actually, I did touch upon the college admissions scandal. And for a while, I had written the whole first draft essentially, where the men, the husbands were the one who were sort of making all of the decisions and taking all the actions that were having these ripple effects for everyone. But it took me a long time of writing and a lot of wasted words to realize that my strong female narrators were just reacting. So everything that just wasn't exciting. Like, they were just reacting to their husbands all the way through. There were two different setups, two different scenarios that sort of overlapped, but my two sisters weren't, you know, calling the shots themselves and that didn't feel, it just didn't sit well. So I, for the very first time throughout like, 70,000 words. It was something heartbreaking. Was painful. It was so painful. And I tried every which way to not do that because I'm someone that like, if I have to cut a paragraph, I like keep it tucked off to the side to like bring it back because it helps your word count, bumps it up, you know. I don't wanna lose anything. So that was really painful. But once I sort of realized that and did a course correct, it felt so much better. These women do not always make the best decisions for themselves or for their families, but I feel like it's more authentic, it's real. They're making these calls, they're determining their futures for better or worse, and they're dealing with the consequences. And it felt much better to me at the end of another 70,000 words. How many words were in the book when you finished? I don't know what we got edited down to, but I think it's about a 110,000. Wow. So Oh my gosh. It was close. Oh my gosh. That's pretty much it was.

[24:16]Zibby Owens: It was. But a good learning. What does your writing look like? Like, where do you sit and do it? And how long do you allocate each day or like what's your whole process like? It used to look like much

[24:28]Lauren Weisberger: sexier. It was much more like I could write all night, pre kids, right? Could write all night sleep all day and work from kind of anywhere. Was much more flexible about like where I could work. And then I had kids and that all went to hell. And now it's very much I work around their schedule. So I have an office in our house. Sometimes I have an office outside of our house, but now I have an office in our house and I work when they're in school, which is just pretty basic. But it's very much, it is like a very set time and it's nice to know like, it helps you not procrastinate, guess if I'm looking for silver linings, not it's in my nature, but if I'm looking for silver linings, I will say that you know that like the second they walk in that door, we're waiting for yours to walk in The that second they walk in that door, it's over. You know, it's just done. And it doesn't even matter if, you know, the activities, the snacks, the in, the out, the mom, the where's this, like, that sort of carved out concentration time is done. And I think that's probably what made it, you know, really hard to write this during the pandemic, they were home all the time. So it was a little more challenging. But in normal times, you know, I get everyone off to school and then I try to sit down and I aim for, you know, 800 to a thousand words a day, five days a week. And it doesn't always happen. And sometimes it takes two hours and sometimes it takes six hours, but it's very much like a job. You know, sit down, get the words done, and move on. And don't read what you wrote the day before. You'll get nowhere, I think. Because then you start wanting to edit it. You start rewriting, and you're just like, finger on the delete button, your sentences are just disappearing, and it's the wrong direction. So

[26:09]Zibby Owens: I try very hard to not do a lot of back reading until I have a first draft. That's good advice. So That's very good advice. It's it's born out of necessity because otherwise, it's just write, delete, write, delete, and you're going nowhere. So a lot of authors I've spoken to have said that after they have like a big success, it becomes actually even harder to write subsequent books. And that the pressure is like mounting, how will I ever top that or something like that. Do you ever feel like that with Devil or Spreader where you came out of the gate so strong and you're like, oh no, what if it doesn't what if I can't do it again? I've definitely

[26:44]Lauren Weisberger: felt that. I felt that specific sort of sentiment most strongly with my second book. You know, because the first one it was like, was this just luck? Was this just circumstance? Was this just something, you know, the gods aligned and the book was this and it's what everyone wanted to read then and, you know, but how it's time to like, go back into your quiet office and like, do it again. And that was that really did my head in. So that one was probably the hardest of anything. Once I was over that, it's not that they get any easier, but there's also this knowledge that like what happened with The Devil Wears Prada, the movie, now like the play, like all of the these are like once in a lifetime things, you know. I for some people, maybe not. There are a few times in a lifetime or a career, but to have something that like really went to this level and that so many people know and Meryl Streep's in your movie. I mean, it's crazy. It's craziness. And I don't think I realized it then how crazy it was. It was the first book. Was 24 years old. Like, I had no idea what was going on. I was so excited that like you could walk into a Barnes and Noble and my mom could buy my book at like her Barnes and Noble, not, you know, that was mind blowing. Never mind like all of the other stuff that came about with it. So I think I know now I don't feel that pressure anymore. I mean, I feel pressure to write a good book and to like deliver to my readers who have stuck with me like what they want and what they like, hopefully what they can relate to, very much so, like I still want to write the best book possible. But the idea that like there's going to be this craziness again, I mean, I think I now, after many years gone by, have the perspective to know that like, this is not normal, you know, that was not normal. That was totally extraordinary and amazing and overwhelming and crazy. And, you know, it's not that doesn't like really translate any more into what I work on now. You're almost like a case study. Right? I feel like you're no. I'm serious. There are all these, like, what happens with, like, child stars or, like, actors and actresses who have, like, a big success early in their life and what happens? And it's so much rarer to find an author who, like, hits it big that early in life. Right? It's first of all, it's hard to even get a book published that early in life Totally. And, like, have a book be a blast. So No. It's crazy. And it was really like, at the time, it was really overwhelming. It was kind of terrifying. You know, they, like, sent me out on the road for four weeks at a time, and then over to London and Paris and German, like I was just kind of sent out like alone. And I didn't know with like the book wranglers and you know, and I didn't know, it was like a lot of like, say this, don't say this, say this, definitely don't say that. And here are your tickets, you know, and it was like, oh my god, you know, it was really, it was kind of terrifying and overwhelming. And, you know, obviously, like all good things came out of it. Like, feel so lucky now I have this career all born out of that. And in hindsight, like, it should have all just been like enjoy- I should have just like enjoyed everything in the moment. But it was terrifying, I think, as it happened. You know, they didn't tell me like, I don't know, now you know, now publishers know. People have there's some books that sneak through, but you have a pretty good idea of like, maybe how one's gonna do, what do presales look like, what do sales look like. People, you're kind of like in the loop of what's happening, like what is your publisher, how are they positioning it? I didn't know any of that. I mean, like I said, I was 24 years old. I had no idea. I was so excited that it was just being published. And I had no idea that they knew for sure it was going to hit the list and it was going to hit high. Like I got that phone call. I was standing on 86 and Lex, I'll never forget outside that Petco. And she was like, You made the New York Times miss out? And I'm like, What? You know, like in no universe was I expecting that phone call did I have any clue from anyone that that was coming. So it was just it was like a totally different time and a crazy one, A crazy one. And so are you like, are you still involved, like, with this play and everything? Are you involved with the play? I am. I mean, it's been real that part's, like, incredible. Just interviewed, by the way, Paul Rednik. He said he was writing and writing and writing. And I was like, oh, I'm even like, I'm saving Lawrence. Yes. Oh, that's so cool. He's so lovely. He's one of the book writers on the show. And it's incredible. Like, it's such a it's so different from the making of the movie, which was really so cool to watch that because it's obviously so very different from putting together a book. But this is so different, and it's really fascinating. Like, it's so collaborative. You have all of these different voices in the room. You have like Elton John writing the music. Like, oh my god, what is even that? I mean, I can't even say it without being like, what? You know? People like Shana Taub is writing the lyrics and you've got like Paul on the book and it's They're all like There's so many different like brilliant creative people putting it together and fingers crossed we'll see it next year. I mean, I'm so it's excited to see you play again. Me too. Me Me too. Like, even if it's terrible. Anything. Pretty much anything at this point. Just put something on. Put me in a theater again. I'm just gonna say that. Give me like the M and M's and like, leave me alone. It's so true. I could just put my kids on the stage. Be Be happy happy to watch. It's so true. Just a return to that, please. Yes. So are you working on anything now? I have my next idea. I'm sorry, I'm not totally ready to share it yet. That's okay. Yeah. But it's a similar, it's definitely like a book about relationships and it's definitely something that I think like pushes, toes the line in terms of like public and private persona, I think is what I would say, which is also something that's really interesting to me. Have you started cranking out the words? Close. Close. I've started writing I've started the process of like lots of note taking. And how do you do it? Do you outline the whole thing at all? I don't. No, I don't. Typically, I try to break it into chapters and do like a note cards worth of notes about like what I would like to see in each chapter. I guess that's outlining. I don't know. I guess when you say outlining, I don't outline the whole thing. It's not very detailed and I don't know how it's going to end exactly, although it's going to be a happy ending. It's always a happy ending. It's always a happy ending. But it's not, you know, hopefully it's not like tied up in the way, like in a way that's like easy to predict. I mean, hopefully like a surprise, happy ending where these characters kind of find their way at the end. I just read a book with the saddest,

[33:38]Zibby Owens: most awful ending. Did? Yeah. I know. And when I interviewed the author, she was like, I I like to write unhappy endings. And I was like, okay. I'm just gonna go over here and cry now. I know. I mean, I can't stop thinking about it, so maybe it's a good trick. I don't I mean, don't know. Anyway, good to know it'll be happy ending. It will be. Spoiler alert. It'll be happy. Yeah. Do you have advice for aspiring authors?

[33:59]Lauren Weisberger: I do, but it's not like very exciting advice. But, you know, it falls very much into the category of like be disciplined, which nobody ever wants to hear. But I so firmly believe this and it's how I ended up writing Prada because I was like working and being young and single in the city. And I was just working on it in a writing workshop. And I needed to carve out time to do it. And for me, like at however old, like I was, that was Friday nights. I stayed in Friday nights. I mean, now I would never go out on a Friday night or any other night practically, but like, then that was a big sacrifice, you know, big sacrifice. I'm gonna stay in on a What is Friday a big deal when you're 24, Right, you know? Or maybe were you younger? Younger or 23, yeah. I said, I'm not going out. I'm going to stay in and order my one sushi roll and salad. I'm going to work on this book and get it done. And that was, you know, when you do that, and it's really hard, like, for people who aren't professional writers or who aren't under contract or don't have a deadline where somebody's hanging over them for something, which all of which I think makes it easier to write. When you don't have that, but you still have a job and a family and all these other obligations, it's really hard to say, I'm gonna give myself this gift of, like, time. And I think like, in my mind, like the ticket is like weekly, daily is just never going to happen. But like a weekly chunk of a couple hours, like after six, eight, ten weeks, you're really going to have something, you know, if it's really, and that level of consistency, I think is what gets it done. So that's what I would probably say. It's not the most welcome advice, but- It's not bad. I think it's honest. I think it's honest. It's honest. It's useful. I mean, you know. I mean, the alternative is like, oh, wait until the, you know, the inspiration strikes and you're gonna cancel everything and like write for a week on end and then you'll never look at it again and you've got nothing. So I I also don't know that that's kind of the way. It's hard to do anything in life that way. It is. You're not gonna fit people can't even figure out when to read a book, let alone write a book. That's exactly right. So As as you well know. So I feel like, you know, if you're not putting it in the calendar, at least you have to like have a certain time of day or you have to, you know, dedicate something, some mental energy to making it happen or there's too many other things. It just won't happen. That's exactly right. It's so easy to be distracted. Yep. It needs to be like a deliberate decision.

[36:22]Zibby Owens: Well, Lauren, thank you. Thank you for doing this. This was so fun. Was so much Lauren Zanobel, thank you for letting me, like, barge in on Lauren's day here. Love this. Love this. Thanks for having us both. Everybody out there, thank you for watching. Yes. Go get the signed copy of Where the Grass is Green and the Girls Are Pretty at barnesandnoble.com, or go pick up your regular unsigned but still amazing copy at the stores.

[36:46]Lauren Weisberger: They'll be everywhere. Perfect. Go Love it. Thank you guys for tuning in. And Zivvy, thank you so much. This was so much fun and refreshing to be in person together. It was so nice. Loved it. Yeah. All right. But now I can't turn you off. Now you're still here. I'm just I live here now.

[37:03]Zibby Owens: FYI. Alright. Bye, everybody. Bye. Thanks for listening to part of my June Book Blast. I hope you enjoy it. Come back tomorrow for more. Thanks again to today's sponsor, the Baby Trend Cover Me four in one convertible car seat. Don't forget to enter my giveaway, and the winners will be announced at the end of this week. Thanks for listening to this episode of Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books. Don't forget to follow me on Instagram at Zibby Owens and at moms don't have time to read books. Also sign up for my newsletter at zibbyowens.com and sign up for my virtual book club and meet lots of authors on Zoom every other week. Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan at Texture Sound for the sound editing, and thank you to Morning Moon Productions for providing this fantastic intro and outro music.