Vince Granata, EVERYTHING IS FINE
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[1:38]Vince Granada is the author of everything is fine a memoir Vince received his BA in history from Yale University
[1:44]And his MFA in creative writing from American University. He has received fellowships from the breadloaf writers conference
[1:51]Virginia Center for the creative arts brush Creek foundation for the arts the I Park Foundation and the
[1:56]You Cross Foundation plus
[1:58]Residency is from Playa and the McDowell colony his work has appeared in the Massachusetts review
[2:02]The chata who to review and fourth genre and has been nominated for a push card prize and listed as notable and best
[2:10]American essays
[2:11]2018
[2:12]Vince's memoir is so powerful and
[2:15]Amazing I was just honored to talk to him welcome. Then. Thank you so much for coming on mom
[2:20]Don't have time to read books. Thank you so much for having me. So your memoir. Everything is fine
[2:25]Everything was not fine. Obviously. Tell me about your decision to write about what happened in your life
[2:32]And maybe if you can just let people in on the events that inspired the book
[2:38]Absolutely
[2:38]So the book follows my family story and explores how my family was impacted by schizophrenia and most of the book involves my brother
[2:46]My under brother Tim who became ill shortly after attending color starting college
[2:51]So in his late teens and his illness progressed over the span of several years and there are many challenges to getting him the care that he needed and
[3:01]Though he was hospitalized and that we tried to sort of marshal whatever resources we could to help him
[3:06]We weren't able to help him get a handle on his schizophrenia
[3:09]Tragically he was living at home
[3:11]For several months and during that time began to get these hallucinations that involved in mother and he killed her when the two of them
[3:18]We're home alone together about seven years ago now
[3:21]so the book tries to
[3:23]You know reconstruct how we arrived at that tragic day and then also
[3:27]Tracks of how we lived afterwards in the aftermath and so what is it?
[3:31]How are you able to do these publicity interviews and have to talk about all this stuff over and over again?
[3:37]I mean this must be really hard
[3:39]This is traumatic awful personal stuff. Like are you okay?
[3:43]I feel guilty even like making you dive into it
[3:45]I'm like one o'clock on a Tuesday maybe doesn't want to talk about this right now, you know
[3:49]How are you how are you holding up having this part of your life be so public?
[3:54]No, that's I mean in some ways it'll always be challenging to speak about this time of my life and then these these elements of my family
[4:01]But for a long time for sort of a year after this happened
[4:04]I didn't speak about it at all
[4:06]I sort of tried to put all that stuff in a box and compartmentalize and I didn't write at all
[4:11]Didn't think I would ever write this particular book and all that happened with all of that effort to sort of you know
[4:17]Shove it away was I was just sort of eating myself on the inside and
[4:21]It became very clear to me that
[4:24]Writing was gonna be a way for me to begin to contend with all of these things that I couldn't really bear to look at
[4:30]Otherwise, and I don't even necessarily know if that's you know the most healthy way to deal with trauma
[4:34]But for me writing was that tool. It was something that that had been a part of my life for
[4:39]You know since I was in the third grade
[4:40]So that felt like the means if there was any means by which I could get some control over this out of control story
[4:47]It had to be through writing and by spending lots of time on that writing
[4:52]It became easier to have conversations like this one even though
[4:55]You know, obviously the trauma still seven year later still, you know, echoes very sharply
[5:00]While you were writing it did you show anybody did you keep it through close to your heart and wait till the end
[5:05]I'm curious as to how you dealt with that process
[5:09]So I was very lucky when I started writing this book to I've just started a graduate school program on MFA and creative writing
[5:17]And at that program I met a man who would become my mentor and if I if I choke up a little bit
[5:21]He recently passed
[5:23]No, he was an incredibly special person and incredible writer. His name was Richard McCann and he worked with me for for three years
[5:31]And early on when I was
[5:33]Starting this book. I would only you know show it to him. I didn't
[5:37]Feel like I could be that vulnerable with other people at first
[5:40]But even more than that I was really afraid that
[5:43]someone would see this piece of writing and
[5:46]Just feel sort of overwhelming sympathy for me and not be able to sort of engage with it as you know
[5:51]A series of ideas as a story that I hope has greater purpose than just to you know
[5:56]Explain something sad that happened. But eventually over time
[5:58]I did begin to share work as part of my graduate program and then you know reaching out
[6:04]When it came time to you know try to move this towards publication and I mean that process was was essential
[6:10]We all have blind spots in our writing that we can't see until another set of eyes are on it
[6:14]So that was absolutely essential for me. Well, you also you clearly there's this
[6:19]traumatic emotional story to tell
[6:22]But you're a really great writer as well
[6:25]Which you know obviously since third grade you've been interested in writing
[6:28]So the way in which it comes across is just so
[6:32]Like gripping and vivid like you feel like you're in there all the details of your home and
[6:37]Just all of it down to everything you discovered through your research going back through all the files
[6:44]Recreating that whole day. I mean you you feel like you're living it with you
[6:48]And now you have all these sort of readers who have like you feel like you live it when you
[6:54]Dive into someone's word. So it's really incredible the way you've made it come alive unfortunately and
[7:01]That we all we share your pain now because we like are living it with you in a way
[7:05]That sounds ridiculous, but I hope you know what I mean
[7:08]No, I hear you and it seems weird to say, you know, thank you
[7:12]For that, but I do appreciate you saying that and I think while
[7:16]There are certain elements of the experience that are you know impossible to convey
[7:19]I do hope that there can at least be some
[7:22]Moments where the reader feels some shared element of the story that that resonates
[7:26]So I really appreciate you saying that. You know, there were there were also parts of the story
[7:30]Which shows some of your distance right from where you were then
[7:33]To your reflections on it now in particular the doctor
[7:37]Who was consulting with your family like right up until the morning of the incident and how
[7:45]You you did it was easy to have the doctor be the scapegoat
[7:48]Like why didn't he insist that to him get put into you know inpatient care right away or why
[7:53]Didn't he make your mom call the police or why this or that and yet when you went over it enough over the years
[7:59]You kind of had a different attitude
[8:00]Can you tell me just tell me a little bit more about that?
[8:03]Absolutely. I think in the immediate aftermath and even you know a year out from this trauma
[8:08]I looked for a lot of easy scapegoats. It just felt
[8:12]Easier to be angry at what I thought were sort of immediate villains who turned out not to be villains at all
[8:17]Including, you know, many of the people who who treated him. I looked back over 10 medical records and
[8:23]When I found their names
[8:24]I would you know circle them and put angry little notes in the margins and just kind of have a temper tantrum honestly because that was the only way
[8:31]I knew
[8:32]At that time to try to process any of this and it's more time went on as I learned more about
[8:37]The systems of care that failed my brother
[8:39]I realized that these were the only people that that even tried and that the more I learned and the more I really investigated my family story
[8:46]I could start to see how
[8:47]Systemically there were bigger factors that were that were to blame and I could have started to look at myself as well
[8:52]And realize all that I didn't know
[8:54]During sort of a lead up to to what happened in my family and could start to think a little bit more critically about
[9:00]What I could have done or what I didn't do
[9:02]So I bet people reading will be thinking like oh my gosh, I could never have
[9:07]Made it through how do you go?
[9:08]How do you pick up and like wake up and take a shower and have the day when like you've had this experience like how how do you go on when?
[9:17]Something like this has has
[9:19]Happened and yet here you are right you're a published author and you've your you've obviously got dressed
[9:25]Like you're living your life like what do you say to people who are wondering that or people who are sort of in
[9:33]The post-traumatic state themselves from something else like you're almost a role model of sorts
[9:39]Which I'm sure you don't want that you know bird into to bear at all
[9:43]But at least you can say that you're
[9:45]Still showing up each day, which is a victory in and of itself
[9:50]So tell me a little about that
[9:52]It's the love of other people. I wish I had an answer that involved
[9:55]You know three things that I did to make sure I brush my teeth every night, but I know
[10:00]Without without a doubt that if I didn't have people who care deeply about me in my life
[10:04]I, you know, I'm not sure if I would have made it through that year let alone write a single sentence about this
[10:10]So one thing I try to describe in the book and I think if you know, there's something I could have spent more time on
[10:16]It's the impact that my family members and my close friends and loved the ones had on me during this time and even when I didn't think I was a particularly
[10:26]A lovable person turned this this aftermath
[10:28]They were right there with me and none of this and you know this being the book this being beginning dressed this morning
[10:34]This being me, you know able to kind of move forward in my life would have happened without that that's a chord
[10:40]You write so well about
[10:42]When your friends organized the not like surprise party
[10:46]I don't know what to call it exactly but your friends all rallied together, right?
[10:50]And you went over there in the brain foggy
[10:54]aftermath moment and just got to sit with your friends and be there and they were just by your side and there was one friend
[11:00]In particular who were so grateful for I'm blanking on his name right now, of course
[11:05]Charlie actually just spoke on the phone with him a half
[11:08]Oh
[11:08]That's amazing and you don't always see such
[11:12]examples of amazing
[11:14]Deep male friendship, right?
[11:16]This is like very common in a women's book, right?
[11:18]We're all talking about our friends all the time
[11:19]But it was so amazing to see how they showed up for you
[11:22]And how much you got out of that now and they've continued to show up for me
[11:26]even sort of after that that immediate aftermath and
[11:30]I mean, I think saying that I'm lucky doesn't quite capture it
[11:33]But in addition to being lucky to have surrounded myself with those type of friends
[11:37]It was just really affirming in that moment to have someone recognize me as the person
[11:42]I was for the 27 years before the tragedy because I think
[11:46]One of the most immediate effects I felt of the trauma was just feeling very distant from my stuff
[11:51]And feeling alienated, you know, even for my own reflection and mirror
[11:54]I had trouble recognizing myself and placing myself
[11:58]So before I could even really think about who I was before all this happened
[12:01]I had other people recognize those those pieces of me and that that helped me back into myself more than just about anything
[12:07]Wow
[12:07]I have to say as I was reading it
[12:09]I stopped sort of midway through and I was like
[12:11]All right, I have to see what everybody looks like, right?
[12:14]Because I had you know in fiction you get all these ideas in your head
[12:17]I stopped and then of course there were all these articles
[12:19]So then I was thinking oh my gosh on top of all of this
[12:22]Then you had to deal with like the fact that the press was involved and I mean, I should have thought
[12:25]I mean, obviously, I don't I just didn't
[12:28]Real you had to deal with like another layer
[12:30]You know, including even your compassion for the journalist who was like taking it or the photographer
[12:35]Rather who was taking the picture of you like coming out of the courthouse that eventually
[12:39]You know, they got rid of but that you had that added added layer to contend with what was that like
[12:44]Deeply strange doesn't doesn't quite cover it
[12:47]But I can remember that the part that
[12:50]Felt the hardest to sort of
[12:52]rectify was that by nature, you know in local news reporting whether it be sort of a news clip or
[12:58]Headline or newspaper. There's only so much space for them to sort of describe what happened
[13:02]I mean at that point too
[13:03]I also didn't know a lot of the details of my own story and so it it bothered me early on
[13:08]And this is really through no fault of the journalists who are just working in the medium that they were given
[13:13]They couldn't capture every element of the story. They couldn't show how this wasn't just this
[13:18]You know sort of sensationalized
[13:19]tragic event and I think more than anything when I what I hope the book can do
[13:23]For Tim in particular is to to show him as someone who is more than just
[13:27]You know this this person who happened to
[13:30]Have this disease that spun out of control that led to this traumatic tragic event
[13:34]So I do hope that you know because I have you know
[13:38]You know 300 page just to work with here
[13:39]I can capture a lot of the moments that you can't see when you just read sort of a short report in the news
[13:46]And what is what's like today's update? Like where are all of your siblings?
[13:51]Like what's going on with your family now?
[13:53]I feel like I have the right to pry into your life, which of course I don't
[13:57]What's like the postscript from today's vantage point?
[14:00]And I really appreciate you asking that question and I mean I think to start with Tim makes makes the most sense and
[14:06]Like he and I spoke on the phone yesterday
[14:08]We we are still in close touch
[14:10]Though I haven't been able to visit him in person for you know the last year
[14:14]But he has now for just about four years been consistently and voluntarily on medication
[14:20]He has moved through several steps. He is no longer at the most maximum security facility and he's
[14:25]I mean, it's it's simultaneously
[14:28]Really affirming to describe how thoughtful and how caring a person he is and how our conversations are
[14:36]You know sprawling and cover all sorts of things and to see him that way
[14:40]It's it feels great
[14:41]But it also is incredibly painful because it's just this reminder that none of this had to happen
[14:46]He didn't have to he didn't have to go down this particular path
[14:49]But he is he is progressing well. He's turning 30 in September and there's there are many reasons for hope
[14:55]I'll have a life a very rich life, you know going forward. I know I am very hopeful
[15:00]And my my sister lives in my brother Chris are both doing well as well in there
[15:05]I mean, they've achieved so much and they're in their various fields and they're living very full lives and
[15:10]My dad is still in Connecticut and he and I speak very often
[15:15]We've all spoken about the book and sort of the challenges they're in but we're
[15:20]We're doing the best we can. Wow. So how when you sat down to do this like how long did this take that?
[15:25]I mean, I know you said it was a multi-year process
[15:29]Was there ever a point where you got a sorry at the end of your program where
[15:33]Look tell me what tell me more about I guess the timing and the process
[15:36]Sure, I so I started this graduate program just a little over a year after my mom died
[15:42]I'd been a high school English teacher and I was sort of edging my way out of teaching even before this happened in my family and
[15:50]Was actually that the third to last conversation I had with my mom was about my writing and about how I had sort of
[15:56]Set the side for most of the years. I was teaching
[15:59]So I had known before
[16:01]That I wanted to take my writing more seriously
[16:03]And I thought about graduate programs when I began the the grad program that I did I started
[16:09]Didn't think that I was actually in a right non-fiction. I thought I was gonna write fiction
[16:13]But shortly after arriving and meeting Richard McCann
[16:15]It became clear that this was the story. I had to tell it didn't feel like a choice at first at least
[16:20]so I began really in the fall of
[16:23]2015 and for
[16:25]About the next three years sort of wrote what at first was a series of essays and then we came a memoir
[16:31]And after that three year period
[16:33]It was about another year of of revising and sort of you know shopping and around and seeing if anyone was interested
[16:38]So I think there was sort of four years of of writing and revising and then you know sort of a year
[16:43]You're in half of sort of publishing stuff getting sorted out
[16:47]So it was a long a long period and I think it
[16:49]It had to be a long period for a number of reasons
[16:52]You know one I was learning how to write this kind of book. I
[16:56]Had written fiction beforehand. I'd studied fiction beforehand
[16:59]I'd read predominantly fiction beforehand. I didn't know much about this genre and I had to learn those things
[17:05]And it was also very helpful to
[17:07]Work through this over a long period of time so that I could get a bit of distance and
[17:12]Understand certain elements of the story that that felt too immediate and too
[17:17]You know still too sharp. I think money started writing a year after
[17:20]So it's like not the worst part but
[17:23]The fact that now of course you still have to deal with the loss of your mom right forever
[17:28]That's not something that can
[17:30]Ever you know that's like I don't know
[17:32]I've had loss in my life and I think one of the things about it is just the finality of it
[17:36]Like there's nothing you can do you can't be like oh I should have gone this way on that drive next time
[17:40]I'll go that way or there's nothing you can do about it
[17:43]Which for me has always been the biggest sort of stumbling block of the whole thing like
[17:48]You're always going to have that grief and that loss like how do you maintain
[17:52]her connection right because I think that's how do you keep her sort of alive in your mind do you how do you
[17:58]process that grief and
[18:01]Sort of carry her spirit with you if you will
[18:03]And I appreciate you asking that question
[18:06]Again, I wish I had a simple answer and I
[18:08]Know I mentioned just previously that one of the last things that we spoke about my mother and I was was my writing
[18:14]If we hadn't had that conversation, I think writing this book would have been much more difficult and you know while
[18:18]I know I can't
[18:20]Take that conversation as sort of like one of her final wishes and that would be reading a bit too much into that that exchange
[18:26]I think about that conversation with her so much and
[18:30]Think about how much time I've spent since she died writing and how she knew what writing meant to me
[18:35]And how writing this book is as close as I can come to you know having a conversation with her or thinking about sort of you know
[18:41]Her impact on my life to this day. So I
[18:45]Unavoidably whenever I write she's she's right there with me
[18:49]I'm so sorry. I'm just so sorry
[18:51]That you lost her month. Appreciate you saying that. Thank you. Do you have any advice for aspiring authors?
[18:56]Well, I think aspiring authors
[18:59]Maybe speaking specifically here to people who are trying to write memoir or essay or specifically
[19:04]Writing about traumatic experiences and difficult experiences because I think many people
[19:09]You know like like me feel at some point that they're urged to try to sort through difficult memories and writing
[19:15]and I think
[19:17]Starting that process is incredibly
[19:19]terrifying
[19:20]At least it was for me if I didn't have someone like Richard to sort of coax me along those early moments
[19:26]I don't know if I would have started so I guess I would say if you can find someone
[19:30]But you can trust who's you know someone who's done some sort of writing like this before who kind of knows
[19:36]The ways that this type of writing can you know both help you process trauma
[19:41]But also times you know make some things more difficult to handle to have that kind of voice in your life
[19:47]As you're going through this type of writing is invaluable
[19:50]So I would say try to find someone you can you can attach yourself to it that way
[19:55]Well, thank you Vince. I'm thank you for sharing your experience. I'm sorry
[20:00]everything you've gone through.
[20:01]Thank you for using your words to help other people
[20:04]who will benefit from reading this
[20:06]no matter what they're going through in so many ways.
[20:08]And just that we got to know the people in your family so well.
[20:12]I mean, I feel like I know your mom and Tim
[20:15]and you're siblings and you certainly
[20:17]from how you wrote about them.
[20:18]So I feel privileged you've gotten to know her in this way.
[20:22]No, I'm very glad to hear you say that.
[20:23]Thank you so much.
[20:24]Thank you.
[20:25]Take care.
[20:26]Bye bye.
[20:27]Thanks.
[20:27]Thanks to Kira and Dina for sponsoring our episode
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[20:35]Thanks for listening to this episode of moms
[20:37]don't have time to read books.
[20:39]Don't forget to follow me on Instagram, at Zibi Owens,
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[20:50]Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan at Texturesound
[20:53]for the sound editing.
[20:54]And thank you to Morning Moon Productions
[20:56]for providing this fantastic intro and now trim music.