Alena Dillon, THE HAPPIEST GIRL IN THE WORLD
[0:01]Hi, this is Zibi Owens, and you're listening to the award-winning podcast, Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books.
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[2:02]Alena Dillon is the author of The Happiest Girl in the World, a novel.
[2:07]She's also the author of Mercy House, which is in development at CBS All Access for a television
[2:12]series.
[2:12]Her work has appeared in publications, including Lit Hub, Riverteeth, Slice Magazine,
[2:17]The Rumpus and Bessel.
[2:18]She teaches creative writing and lives on the North Shore of Boston with her husband,
[2:22]son, and dog.
[2:23]And she has another memoir coming out very soon.
[2:26]So you'll listen to us talk about that.
[2:28]Welcome Alena.
[2:28]Thank you so much for coming on mom's don't have time to read books.
[2:32]This is my absolute pleasure.
[2:33]Thank you so much for having me.
[2:35]I'm so excited to discuss The Happiest Girl in the World, which is on such an important topic,
[2:41]and I was just so excited to read it and talk to you about it.
[2:45]Thank you.
[2:45]Thank you for having me.
[2:46]Thank you for everything that you've done for authors.
[2:48]I love this podcast.
[2:49]I love your entire brand.
[2:50]I'm so happy to be here.
[2:52]Oh, yeah, you thank you.
[2:53]I like my brand.
[2:56]I can't help myself from starting me things.
[2:58]I know.
[2:59]I'm getting very distracted.
[3:00]All the newsletters.
[3:01]I'm like, what else is here?
[3:03]Thanks for subscribing.
[3:04]Yeah, of course.
[3:05]OK, why don't you tell listeners a little about The Happiest Girl in the World,
[3:09]and what inspired you to write this book?
[3:11]Sure.
[3:12]So The Happiest Girl in the World is about a gymnast who is training for the Olympics,
[3:16]and all of the costs of driving yourself that hard and pursuing something at that level.
[3:24]And who would affect?
[3:25]And of course, it's also about the culture of USA gymnastics that we've all heard about.
[3:30]So that's part of the cost.
[3:32]It's about a girl who sacrifices her childhood.
[3:35]The toll it takes on her body.
[3:37]The stress it puts on her family, on her parents' marriage, on her twin brother,
[3:41]as well as on her best friend who they're kind of growing up in gymnastics together.
[3:46]And her best friend is abused by a doctor.
[3:49]And because of the culture of USA gymnastics that we've all kind of heard about and been
[3:53]horrified by, we know that there's this kind of the silence and this pressure to be obedient
[3:59]and to defer to the coaches and to the officials and to stay quiet about things.
[4:04]So the main character stays quiet and spends the rest of the novel punishing herself for it.
[4:10]So that's what the book is about.
[4:11]And it was inspired by the real events that we all know about.
[4:16]I started writing it in January 2018 during the Larry Nassar trials just because I kind of,
[4:23]I was maybe ashamed in a way that I had not even considered the lives of the athletes.
[4:28]In any of the sports, I just kind of tuned into the Olympics every two years and was entertained
[4:33]by them.
[4:34]And of course, there's human beings behind those performances.
[4:39]And if you're going to be pushing yourself that hard, there's going to be repercussions.
[4:43]And so I started asking myself a lot of questions about these organizations and how they're
[4:47]built and what their priorities are.
[4:49]And if they're really keeping their athletes and who are children often safe, as well as a bunch
[4:55]of other questions about what happens to people who get injured and what happens to people who don't
[5:01]make it and who have put everything into this dream and then miss it by a hair because so few do.
[5:07]So I just kind of did research and was exploring these questions.
[5:10]There was a lot though of like actual gymnastics.
[5:13]So as I was reading, I was like, you must be a gymnast or something or you've been watching
[5:18]a lot of gymnastics.
[5:19]I am not a gymnast.
[5:21]I can't do any gymnastics except maybe a cartwheel.
[5:24]But yes, I spent a lot of time researching and like I kind of got lost in a lot of gymnastics
[5:29]meets and the movements and was watching a lot of YouTube like how two videos and there was a
[5:34]a lot of just because I wanted to bring that physical sense because that's what they
[5:39]spend so much time on like they spend years, you know, perfecting these minute and a half routines
[5:45]and how many times do you do that over and over again?
[5:47]So the reader like should have that opportunity to live in those moments as well.
[5:52]And then because there's just like so much at stake in those movements, it's a good opportunity
[5:56]to bring like the emotional stakes into the air and like have the physical and the emotional
[6:01]meet. But I have to acknowledge that I hired an authenticity writer and a gymnast, life warrants.
[6:07]She's the, she was co-wrote Ali raceman's memoir with her.
[6:11]So I was really lucky to have her look it over to make sure that I was accurate because there
[6:15]was a lot of things that I just had no idea about that she was able to let me know.
[6:20]Like for instance, I thought like a triple twist would be harder than a two and a half because
[6:24]the number is bigger. And she was like, well, with a two and a half, you're landing blind.
[6:28]So that's actually a more difficult move. So just stuff like that that I would never know on
[6:33]my own. She was able to support me with and it was just a pleasure working with her.
[6:36]Well, I have to say, I felt like that was a big strength of the book because I felt literally
[6:41]like I was there like rotating around the bars and my hands were holding like you definitely
[6:47]created such a sense of like being there, which I feel like the best books do. And I just
[6:53]I loved that feeling, especially I have a daughter who used to compete on, you know, in gymnastics
[6:59]and I was in the locker rooms with the other moms trying to figure out how to do the hair the way
[7:04]you describe her mom doing. And obviously her mom got a lot better than I did and I probably
[7:08]should have watched the YouTube videos about it, but I wasn't that invested in my own success.
[7:14]So I kind of got to know the culture a little bit of that whole world. So reading about it was
[7:19]super interesting for me, but of course not I mean, I shouldn't say of course, but I only read
[7:24]about the abuse and all of that in the papers like you or wherever obviously you did a lot more
[7:29]research than I did, but you know, having been in that world and then hearing about what happens,
[7:35]it's just it became so unthinkable to me. So I loved that there was even a book on this topic
[7:42]and that the way you handled it. So after all your research, like tell me a little bit about how
[7:47]you shifted your perspective on the abuse that happened, as opposed to just consuming it in
[7:54]horror the way we all did. Once you heard more about it and learned in the steep dive you did in
[7:58]this world, did anything shift. And if so what? So when the Larry Nassford child broke and made
[8:04]headlines, I was actually finishing up Mercy House, my first book, which has to do with sexual
[8:08]assault as well. And that time in the bad again. And I just I couldn't help but see the parallels
[8:14]with, you know, the Catholic Church, the USA gymnastics, and then also Hollywood with the
[8:18]me two movements, like they were all this kind of this culture that is holding welfare hostage
[8:25]basically and often on women, but just in general, in vulnerable populations. So they have what
[8:31]these individuals want and they are forcing them to be obedient and quiet and to tow the line in
[8:37]order to give it to them. So I was tuned into that already and then the more that I researched
[8:43]about USA gymnastics, the more I saw like the specific ways in which they applied that kind of
[8:50]principle. Like for instance, at the at the branches, I found this memo that was posted by another
[8:56]parent of a gymnast that said that instructed the girls if they had any trouble in the middle
[9:02]of the night to call Larry Nassar rather than one of their personal coaches. So just like funneling
[9:08]these girls to one particular person, you know, when they were training it, like encouraging them
[9:14]to push through pain so that they like just endured and tolerated and they trained, they were
[9:19]trained to endure and tolerate quietly. And then the like through documentaries and podcasts and
[9:25]first hand accounts just how like Larry was able to thrive because he allowed injured girls to
[9:32]turn to the floor more quickly than some other doctors would. So he was a useful expert to have
[9:39]on hand because he put the girls back into training. So that's one reason that he was able to stick
[9:46]around. So yeah, just like when you're when you're approaching this world with that in mind,
[9:52]like what are the ways in which these people kind of foster an environment in which he could exist
[9:58]for so long.
[10:00]You find them. You find all their different strategies and the reasons behind it, you know, just just such that they can push for success and have these girls, you know, have to live with things that are unlivable.
[10:11]You know, in the book, I felt like when they called the doctor and she was saying to her roommate, like, no, go and get our coach and she was like, Oh, no, wait, we're supposed to call the doctor. I was like, don't do it.
[10:21]Oh, my gosh, those were such difficult scenes to live inside. Oh, my gosh. And like lifting up. Oh, my God. Anyway, well, it was like a slow motion thing especially when I close your eyes.
[10:34]Right. I mean, it's, yeah, it's like, you know, when I was writing it, like you have to like, it's interesting to write something where you know that the reader will be built in with this knowledge already that the characters don't know. You know, it's one of those moments where like you have to keep that in mind. And that's like, so then the potential is there from the start, which is, and it's like very cringy, but it's, it's powerful too, because like you can see how innocent the girls were when like, and you know, the reader already has the knowledge of retrospect.
[11:01]I also thought it was really interesting in the book how you profiled essentially a family and the effects on the family and all the costs associated and what you have to give up and all the things that this family had to forego in order to channel everything into the one girl's success.
[11:17]And then when something random happens like she gets poisoned, I have you before me like what does that do to the family like how does the whole and when to parents aren't necessarily on the same page.
[11:27]And I love how you have part of it from the mom's point of view to like this is where she's coming from and what does it do to her and all of that. So tell me about that decision to structure the book that way.
[11:38]So that was totally my editor that was a really fun suggestion when I submitted the manuscript who was all from Sarah's point of view.
[11:44]And I loved being inside the mom's dialogue, like she had just like a very distinct voice, but when my editor read it that was her big feedback was is there a way that we can incorporate that point of view as well.
[11:55]And I see how I had multiple character point of view to and I had loved writing those chapters so as soon as my editor suggested that and I had already loved the mother's voice I was just so excited to get going with that.
[12:07]And so I just went back to the manuscript and found some opportunities where it would be helpful to get the other side that maybe we don't get from Sarah and to just get to know the mother character even more.
[12:17]Yeah, that those were really fun and also very people.
[12:20]And it also it just makes you think about what it does to a child when the whole financial sort of ecosystem of a family is relying on a child's performance in a sport that should have just been fun.
[12:36]Just that pressure alone forget about all the horrific things that come ended up happening to Sarah and her friend and everything was just that pressure what is that to right.
[12:47]And the longer you're in it the higher the stakes become because you know like the more that they've sacrificed and so like there's just it's quitting is you can't even consider it because it's you've been in it too long.
[13:00]I wonder what that ends up doing as you become a parent yourself right and then you have to go through and I don't know sort of the sins of the fathers lived on the younger.
[13:09]I don't know.
[13:10]I don't know.
[13:11]I know.
[13:12]The Reaper cut like because the mother's parents kind of dismissed her so she wanted to kind of like move against that.
[13:16]And that's what so that she was acting against the way that she'd been raised.
[13:19]And then how will Sarah move on at the end of the book I'm able to be able to like a little insight into what she will be as a mother and having her own daughters and things.
[13:27]But yeah, would be interesting to know what choices she makes and doesn't make based on how her mother treated her, you know, yeah you're right it's also like this kind of cycle.
[13:36]I once interviewed someone John Bishop who's John something Bishop who said basically all of parenting is either a reaction to your own to everything that has been before you either you do what you liked or you go right against it.
[13:50]And like the real challenge is like literally learning to parent in a vacuum as opposed to reacting one way or the other.
[13:56]And the stuff you don't even think about it just yesterday when I was my son is to I was like doing our Easter ritual and I'm putting out the candy in the morning.
[14:05]And my husband was like, Oh, is that, you know, that's how you what your parents did and I hadn't even thought about it like making this trail of chocolate throughout the house like of course that's my parents did.
[14:14]And I like I thought that's what everyone did. But yeah, you're just like kind of baked in with stuff that that resonates with you or stuff that you're trying to balance out.
[14:22]That's so sweet. Yeah, we always did like a birthday breakfast. Finally, my husband is like, why are we always having cake for breakfast.
[14:29]I like doesn't everyone have cake for breakfast.
[14:32]He's like, no, I have cake for dinner.
[14:35]I don't know why we had that tradition. But yes, makes you question.
[14:39]So tell me more about how you got into writing to begin with mercy house this book like the whole your whole writing trajectory. Do you always know you want to be a writer?
[14:48]Yes, I did. So I, from when I was very little, I was, you know, reading adult books like when I went back and found my like fourth grade year book and I had been in favor book with separate beds, which was just like this romance novel that I think I had found of my mom's and so I started writing my first book when I was 10.
[15:05]Yes, so I just always wanted to be a writer have always pursued it much more seriously after college and that it's been a relentless pursuit since that time.
[15:15]So it took about 10 years from after college to getting mercy house published and there were a bunch of books in between and a couple different agents and a lot of submissions, a lot of close calls, a lot of rejections.
[15:26]And then yeah, when I, I, it was, I guess it was 2018 that I signed on with my agent and then it just, it just rolled so quickly after after eight years of, of nothing.
[15:38]It was just all of a sudden we had like an interest from Hollywood like we were to kind of fielding phone calls from different producers and things and I just couldn't believe it because like sometimes it feels like it's just never going to happen and it's, it's starting.
[15:51]Like it's embarrassing people are like, how's the writing going like it's still going. I'm still writing.
[15:56]And then yeah, and then all of a sudden, you know, I'm on the film with Amy Schumer and I'm going to need her in New York and it's just, it feels absurd and magical.
[16:03]And then yeah, since then I have this book now coming and I have another one coming in October and another one slated for next year. So it just like once you find the right people then like opportunity to just be gets opportunity and I'm just like so lucky.
[16:18]I mean, it's conceivable that like it could take, I don't know like how, however long if I had submitted to my agent then like who would have been maybe the next person how long could it have taken like would I just have given up at some point maybe maybe not.
[16:31]It seems like it just takes a lot of, you know, some talent a lot of hard work, but like also just tons of luck to find the right people at the right time.
[16:39]I'm sure you've also gotten so much better not that you weren't an amazing writer to begin with, but just think about 10 years of practice for someone sending out their first draft of something.
[16:48]And all that time to get better and unfortunately, I wish there were a way in the writing sort of universe where you could not feel like a total reject while you learn right because the only way to learn is to try and fail.
[17:01]And that's like part of the process, but it doesn't feel like it's part of the process, it feels like a complete failure and like you're never going to get there right.
[17:09]And that will actually I think calls 10 years the magic number right like that's usually how much it takes to get those is it 40,000 hours of practice before you become really good at something.
[17:19]And it's so true like I mean definitely can't look at manuscripts that I wrote 10 years ago.
[17:23]But even if I'm flipping through Mercy House I'll find sentences that I'm like, Oh, I would have cleaned that up, you know, like you're constantly evolving and like coming up with a different style and yeah so like hopefully we just keep getting better and better.
[17:36]So with all your Hollywood discussions where did that end up so yeah Mercy House is in the process of it's in development as a television series so as far as I know they have written the first episode and are like looking around for casting so exciting.
[17:53]I know.
[17:54]And what about what are the next two books about so I have a memoir coming out in October called my body is a big fat temple and it's about my experience with pregnancy and early motherhood because when I became pregnant I.
[18:07]I'm just like whenever I go through any experience I look for books about it so that I can kind of know what to expect and then also feel less alone if I'm going through something knowing that somebody else went through it.
[18:16]And there just wasn't a lot of material there were some books but a lot of them were like how two books or non like non fiction about the science of pregnancy and there wasn't a lot of just narrative of the journey of going through it.
[18:29]And so I felt like I kind of was caught off guard by a lot of the experiences and how like primal it is and sometimes a little gruesome and you know if you're feeling anxiety and.
[18:39]And then yeah like a lot of the experiences are just romanticized because we like to kind of keep motherhood as this ideal so I wanted to approach it with a bit of more honesty and grit and humor so yeah that's coming out in October.
[18:53]And then I have another novel slated for next year about a woman Air Force service pilot during World War two and her daughter 60 years later and how being dismissed as a pilot after the war was over.
[19:07]Kind of affects the inheritance of the girl like she's living with her mother's regret, so I guess yeah more of that cycle of parenting like what what experience of the mother and how that affects the motivations of the daughter.
[19:19]That's that's that great I'm dying to read your memoir.
[19:22]Oh, thanks.
[19:23]Good.
[19:24]Please do please do yeah nothing really couldn't prepare you for pregnancy when your body is like taken over and all your old issues come up and you I don't know it's.
[19:36]And all I really talks about how difficult maybe people are starting to more but I didn't I didn't feel like people had talked about like the loosening of your joints and like.
[19:46]The carpal tunnel and like how your body just kind of implodes on itself and like the cost of creating like this astronomical in a way.
[19:54]And there's this hush like don't tell them or they won't want to do it you know like.
[19:59]Yeah you're supposed to forget.
[20:00]at it, right? The mind forgets it. Like I had a, my started with a twin pregnancy and it was
[20:04]horrific and it was on bed rest, honestly, most of the time, which I am like not a good candidate
[20:10]for bed rest. I like can't sit down most of the time. But, and parts of my body who never,
[20:14]they've never been the same since, you know, you know, tell that either like how you live with
[20:18]with these effects forever. Yeah. Yeah. My, my little, I ended up having four kids and my little
[20:24]as my younger daughter the other day was like pointing to my stomach and she's like,
[20:28]and that's because of, you know, and she said, my older kids need a sense like, yeah,
[20:32]and that's okay because I'm so blessed that I have them. But yes, I have this like disgusting
[20:36]stomach because of it. But yeah, I'll take it. I know. People talk about like, oh, how many
[20:41]stretch marks do you have? And I'm like, I look like I laid face down on a towel sunbathing. Like,
[20:46]my belly is teary cloth. Like, I can't count them. My OB actually, when I was pregnant,
[20:54]I was saying something because at the time I was like so concerned about my body,
[20:58]not that I'm not, but I was just like, racked with I had spent all this time trying to lose weight
[21:02]and then I got pregnant. Of course, forget it. And I remember my OB who had also had twins was like,
[21:08]I just want to warn you, like, it's not necessarily like you're not going to necessarily look the way
[21:12]you did before. And she literally lifted up her shirt and showed me her stomach. And I was like,
[21:17]oh, I was like, don't show me it. Like, I can imagine being in that room so well. Like, it was
[21:24]yesterday. And of course, like, you know, I don't like so different, but I don't know. I felt like
[21:28]that was my warning. Like, one woman to another, one mother to another in the privacy of, you know,
[21:35]an intimate doctor's hub is just showing me like, what's to come? Otherwise, how do you get
[21:41]this information? And like, and that's kind of what we're trained to do is like this cloak and dagger,
[21:45]like, like lift up the coat and reveal what's the truth. And like, I don't know why the discourse
[21:50]isn't just more straightforward. Like, I'm not just a much more direct person. If somebody asks
[21:54]me, but it's like, I'm going to tell them. And so that's, yeah, that's what the book is about.
[21:57]Because I was, I was looking for like, and the experience is so different for everybody. So you
[22:02]need to like collect all of these experiences, even just a piece together, something that will be
[22:07]like what you recognize. So I think it's just like, we need to just have more stories so that
[22:11]people know that they're not alone, because if they are feeling something, and that's not
[22:15]something they've heard of, like, you really feel isolated and like you're an anomaly. And that's
[22:19]scary feeling. That's so true. Yeah. Although, do I want to go back there? I don't know.
[22:26]If I want to relink that, you know, once it's over, no, it will be, I'm just joking, it will be
[22:31]so valuable to so many people. It's just like, once you get through it, you're like, okay, I made it
[22:37]like onto the next 8,000 hurdles. Like, of course, you have this trail of memory, you know,
[22:43]following you around like, like a tail, you know, behind you that, you know, should I turn around and
[22:47]look or should I just let it sort of whack the ground? Right. And like you said, your body's now
[22:52]a map of it too. Yes, exactly. Well, that's so exciting. So when do you write? What's your press?
[22:57]It's like, so I write in the mornings, I'm really lucky to have my husband has a flexible
[23:02]work schedule. So he's a professor. So he ranges all of his classes to be afternoon, and especially
[23:07]with the pandemic, we don't have childcare. So I wake up and I have the morning shift every day,
[23:12]and then he has the afternoon shift, and then we both work after my son goes to bed, and we both
[23:16]work weekends. So yeah, but I write every day in the morning. That's my spot right here,
[23:22]like where we're doing our gym. So I write in my bedroom. This is the basement where I'm
[23:26]pulled away. There's more quiet, but yeah, right usually in my bedroom has a little writing desk,
[23:31]but like lately we just had to change the knob because I didn't have a lock on it. So my
[23:35]my son has learned out to turn the knob. So now there's a lock door and occasionally there's
[23:40]like knocking on the door like calling for me. But I had to have a YouTube rain video that I put
[23:45]really loud. So I write through like through thunderstorms every day. Wow, interesting.
[23:52]All right, well, I'll think of you next time at rains. They're like, wow, you know, you can turn off
[23:56]your YouTube today. You need a lot of sensory cues to work, right? Like I like having my coffee and
[24:01]like that smell and that, you know, like the motion of bringing it to my lips kind of puts me in the
[24:05]mood. And yeah, now that the rain kind of makes puts me in the, the writing, the writing mindset.
[24:10]Wow, there is something so great about a rainy day. So interesting that you like recreated that
[24:15]cozy intimacy of it, right? And then you can just close the laptop and it's gone. How great. That's
[24:21]right. Yeah. Go outside. So what advice would you have for aspiring authors? Oh, let's see,
[24:26]well, a huge one for me is to have reading partners. So after I finish a manuscript, I find it
[24:31]really hard to get perspective on what needs to be changed. Like I have a sense that maybe it's not
[24:35]as strong as it can be, but I can't see it for myself. And so I need a few opinions to point out
[24:41]things to me. And then I see that resonates. So like my husband's actually a really good editor.
[24:45]So he reads it over a couple of days and he's, and he's really good at marking it up. And then
[24:49]he tells me and then we don't speak for a couple of days. And then I'm able to like agree.
[24:54]Okay, fine. Yes. And then my agent and my editor and a few other friends from my MFA program that
[25:00]we still spot work. And I realized so heavily on that for the revision process. So, so yeah,
[25:05]that would be my recommendation is to get some readers that you trust. Like there's a few groups on
[25:10]at this for finding those people. There's a few groups on Facebook that I find really helpful for
[25:14]writers, like all those binders groups. If you're, if you're just like post something that you need,
[25:18]you get so much response. That's how I found Ali raceman's co-writer, Blythe Lawrence. I just posted
[25:23]something like, is there a, you know, a gymnastics expert out there who could help me and
[25:27]and she responded and like, you know, she's like the top of the top. It was just so fortunate.
[25:32]So that's one getting a good reading partner. And then just like practically, I like to stop my
[25:37]end days mid scene. So that when I begin the next day, I have that momentum. And I'm not
[25:42]staring at like a blank page of a new chapter, even though it feels really satisfying to finish
[25:47]the scene and walk away. And I find it really much easier the next day if I like just already
[25:52]just jumping, you know, waist deep rather than trying to start from scratch. Do you finish the
[25:57]sentence or do you stop mid sentence? I hadn't tried that. Maybe I'll try that. No, but I
[26:02]usually finish the sentence. And then begin a new paragraph in the same moment.
[26:08]Wow, that is awesome. Yeah, the blank page is so intimidating. Sometimes when I'm trying to write
[26:13]something, I just put it in an email because I'm like email is so non-threatening. I'm just going to
[26:17]like start it as an email. Yeah, like word or pages or the programs when it's just like big and
[26:24]there's a question formatting in the cursor. Yeah, right? Like I can't deal with that. I'm just going
[26:30]to pretend this is an email to a friend. Yeah. Anyway, well, amazing. This is so great. And I can't
[26:39]wait to read your memoir. And I'm so glad I got to read at least most of the happiest girl in the
[26:44]world. And I now I want to watch Mercy House and it comes out. Anyway, so much exciting stuff. And
[26:50]I'm just so glad our paths have crossed. And yes, thank you so much for your stuff. I'm glad you found
[26:55]your agent. Me too. Me too. And that's a blessing. Awesome. All right. Well, thank you so much for
[27:01]coming on and best of luck. Yeah, thank you for having me. Okay. Bye, take care. Bye bye.
[27:08]Thank you, Slumperkins, for sponsoring today's episode. Again, use code Zibi 10 to get 10% off your first
[27:16]purchase. Thanks for listening to this episode of moms don't have time to read books. Don't forget
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[27:36]And thank you to Morning Moon Productions for providing this fantastic intro and now trim music.