Katie Sise, OPEN HOUSE

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[0:35]Okay, now back to this amazing podcast.

[0:38]Katie Sykes is the author of Open House, a novel.

[0:41]Katie is a New York City-based author, jewelry designer, and television host.

[0:45]Her jewelry line has appeared in magazines, like Vogue, WL, Lucky, and Style, People, Marie Claire, Alure, and many others,

[0:53]and has been worn by celebrities like Kate Winslet, and Hathaway, Cameron Diaz, and Beyonce Knowles.

[0:59]Katie has done design collaborations with outlets like Target, and has appeared as a style consultant on networks like HSN, Oxygen, and Discovery.

[1:08]She can usually be found drinking coffee and spending time with her family while wearing old Navy leggings.

[1:13]Welcome, Katie. Thank you so much for coming on Moms Don't Have Time to read bugs to discuss Open House and so much more.

[1:20]Thank you for having me. I'm so excited.

[1:23]So Katie, you've written many books. YA adult. Now you're in this new thriller genre.

[1:29]You are a jewelry designer, a former actress.

[1:32]You, a mom, you've done like a zillion things. I'm so impressed.

[1:36]Let's start by talking about Open House, if you don't mind.

[1:40]And just give readers the top line on this book, and then I want to delve into your whole life.

[1:46]Well, this one is about a crime that happened 10 years ago, a girl named Emma walked into the woods and her really beautiful upstate New York campus.

[1:56]And she was never seen again.

[1:58]And her disappearance has haunted her family and especially her sister and her parents, of course.

[2:04]And for her sister, it's always been this thing that she felt like she had this almost magical thinking feeling that she was the only one that was ever going to be able to get to the bottom of it.

[2:12]So she's gone away for college. She's incredibly bright. Her younger sister, who drives the book, Haley.

[2:17]And she comes back to Waverly, the fictional town based on an area very close to where I live.

[2:23]That her sister has disappeared all those years ago.

[2:26]And what happens is when you open the book, you find that Emma's bracelet has been found in a part of the woods where it really shouldn't have been.

[2:33]They often thought that the police often thought that she could have jumped and sort of caused her own death in some way.

[2:40]And the location of what's found means that that's not possible that could have happened.

[2:44]And so it sort of hurdles on from there.

[2:46]And Haley has to get to the bottom of what has truly happened to her sister.

[2:50]And we go back and forth between the present day time where a lot of the players who were there that night that Emma died are now adults.

[2:57]So they were, we see them in college during the book and they're behavior then.

[3:01]And then we see them now as these sort of high functioning adults in this beautiful view,

[3:04]call it town and Haley has to interact with them.

[3:06]And they of course were all in some way.

[3:08]We find out how they were involved if they were involved.

[3:10]And it's this piece that Haley has to get to the bottom too.

[3:13]So very exciting.

[3:14]I have to say I listened to this in the car with my with my twins who were almost 14.

[3:20]And we were all like riveted at what was going on.

[3:23]And as I was listening, I was wondering about your own experience with grief and loss because the scenes between the sisters, like not between them, but as one sister is mourning the other and that feeling of like not knowing and the loss.

[3:40]And even there was one line you had about how she had to escape like she went to Stanford to escape the grief that was.

[3:50]That her parents were coping with because of course it happens to the whole family.

[3:53]So I just wanted to hear a little more about that one element.

[3:57]I'm from a very big Irish Catholic family.

[3:59]So we we have had a lot of death.

[4:01]There's been so many of us people have died young people have died, you know, two young people have died.

[4:05]You know, a bit later where it's easier to cope with and force all these different things go into my experience of grief.

[4:11]But I almost think more what it is is that I write about what I'm afraid of.

[4:15]I'm afraid of losing someone that I really love.

[4:17]And I'm sure you relate to that as a mom.

[4:19]Like before I had children.

[4:21]I had, you know, people that I loved, of course, so so very much.

[4:24]And it was so hard to lose them.

[4:26]And I'm particularly close to my sister.

[4:28]And my sister is also same age difference as Emma and Haley.

[4:31]And my sister is also a, she's an astrologist.

[4:33]So it was fun to write Haley as a med student because I was feel like I went through med school with my sister not really.

[4:39]I didn't have to do the hard part of it.

[4:40]But, you know, I was often with her at some point during the day, those days we both lived in New York City then.

[4:45]And so that was, I felt like I enjoyed writing that, that aspect of her.

[4:49]But I would say that, and because people have asked me that before, they've been like, well, what is, how did you write about this grief piece?

[4:54]And I think what I, one of the things that's helpful about having that act like having that experience of when you really delved into characters when I was younger and I was doing all these different things is I find that it's, I'm so afraid of it that I have to write about it.

[5:07]Like I'm so afraid of any kind of grief and loss that if I, it is in all my work.

[5:11]And I don't know how to, I've even had times where I thought, should I just try to write something really happy.

[5:16]And she, like some kind of like, like a meat, like people meet and they fall in love and then maybe they have like one obstacle to overcome, but it's all good.

[5:23]And you know, but I just find that I do keep returning to this subject.

[5:26]And I just think it is that I have to write about the things that scare me.

[5:29]Even in, in one of the themes that is in the book, particularly with Josie without giving too much away is that element of jealousy.

[5:35]And I even find, I've even find even in little ways that I am afraid of one thing that I will, I will steer away from if I sense it in a relationship is any type of like female jealousy makes me nervous.

[5:46]And so that I found that when her I wrote about that, you know, she's she is so jealous of Emma that Emma has Noah back in college and all these other things.

[5:53]So I think I find that sometimes the scarier things to me aren't necessarily like it's a boogeyman in the woods.

[5:58]It's more these things that can happen in everyday life that are, you know, so I keep returning to it, which, which means that sometimes when I write I am unsettled, but then there is some a little bit of an element of sort of when you face something head on and you actually

[6:14]sit in it for a while and feel uncomfortable. Sometimes that's, you know, helpful. Maybe in some way or maybe I'm torturing myself. I mean,

[6:22]no, it's this whole what if like what if this happens. How would I handle it. And as you find in life, no matter what life throws you somehow or other, you handle it.

[6:34]Like you just do and you get through it and your books are like your characters are doing that for you.

[6:40]And even that idea of what would someone do. I mean, I think that that's why all of us love. I mean, most of the women and men I talk to. I mean, we love TV shows for that reason, right.

[6:50]And really good books for that reason. It's characters are put in these really extraordinary circumstances. And my characters are a lot.

[6:57]You know, I feel like I know them really well. I feel like they're like maybe some I'm not like my friends, but but someone that I would see it drop off. And I wouldn't know their inner life.

[7:05]I wouldn't know their circumstances. So particularly in this book, Priya. I really enjoyed writing this. I don't know if enjoyed the right word, but I felt like I really wanted to write this character.

[7:15]And for her, staying married to Brad, part of that is, you know, sure, she could find a therapist or she could find a psychiatrist.

[7:21]But to have somebody to feel so unsafe in your own mind and to have somebody there.

[7:25]And this doctor who is every day monitoring monitoring her mood, making sure she's okay. And so her number one driver is to stay with her son and I love Priya's relationship with her son.

[7:35]Like she just loves her son so much. And I obviously relate to that. I love my daughter's of course so much. And I feel like that's her number one priority is to stay healthy to stay on track.

[7:44]Keep her mind on track to not have a break have that sort of breakdown that she has much earlier with Elliot when he's one. And she talks about that a little bit. So to not go there again to have this sort of breakdown in a school parking lot in front of all these parents when she has to sit down.

[7:58]Has a panic attack can't get up. He's with her. Someone tries to, you know, pick him out. So to have that be your ultimate fear that somehow your kids are going to be taken away.

[8:06]Being this marriage where there's this person who keeps you, you think this person's keeping you on track. How much would you stay through? And I think I would stay through a lot truly if that was my situation.

[8:16]And so that's why I felt like she could put all her suspicions about them and some of his transgressions aside and try to make it work for that long.

[8:23]I was kind of chuckling, although I probably shouldn't have been when you wrote about Priya and having the panic attack and like bending over and trying to deal with herself and how a kind mother came to try to, you know, take the baby away. And so she like lunge.

[8:36]Instead something like, I don't know, ferocious animal or something like that. And I'm like, well, that's not going to end your hurt to the moms either.

[8:42]Of course, like here we find all people together and drop off right.

[8:46]And then you lunge in a mother. I mean, that's about as low as preschool drop off has gone into a while. Yeah. And yet I miss preschool drop off so much now that's done with COVID times and my kids are finally out of preschool.

[8:59]But oh my gosh. Well, there's so much great stuff in your book. Right. There's the suspense and the inner workings of the mind. And I'm so glad you brought up the medical stuff because I was wondering when I was listening about how you knew all of that.

[9:13]That was a lot. And even like the identification of the body and how she names it and like Suzy. I don't know. It's just like it all felt so real. And you can like feel her walking down these halls where there's been this trauma in the past.

[9:28]And yet she comes back to it. Right. Like she's pulled back to her family home and the scene of the crime serious literally. So I don't know. And of course the open house thing. I'm like obsessed with open houses myself.

[9:40]Like every time we have free time we go to an open house. So so we said we and I, you know, I think that there is this idea of sort of a long and a theme of you going to at least I do when I go into these open houses.

[9:51]I just heard an essay about this. It turned out I'm terrible at personal essays. So I don't believe that. I don't believe that at all. I will email it to you since you love open house. I will give you this essay.

[10:00]Like I haven't even sent it.

[10:01]Anyway, send it to me.

[10:02]I want to read it.

[10:03]Well, I'll absolutely send it to you.

[10:04]So it talks about this idea because I

[10:06]has been an idea to the same thing we love to go to open houses.

[10:08]And I think what it is, is that one of the things for me

[10:11]is you imagine almost like not only is it so beautiful,

[10:13]this other home or perhaps it's not whatever,

[10:16]whatever it is you find there, but you imagine yourself,

[10:19]it's like a new life.

[10:20]And you wonder what are the people that live there?

[10:22]What would I be like if I live there,

[10:23]which is a lot of what writing is?

[10:25]So I think that, you know, my agent also loves real estate.

[10:30]And we often will talk about, you know, he,

[10:32]we have this competition and he did want to say to me,

[10:34]he's like, we've got to, you've got to have something

[10:36]at some point that has to do with your, your obsession

[10:38]with these, you know, open houses.

[10:40]So, but you know, my poor real estate agent was like,

[10:44]I can't believe you set a book in an open house.

[10:46]Like I had to go to these, you know, maybe read this.

[10:48]And the other hand, maybe it will help your agent,

[10:51]because other people who might not share our habit

[10:54]might start doing that.

[10:56]All right, kudos.

[10:57]All right, so we just had our,

[10:58]what the essay is about also,

[10:59]we just sold our house and bought a new one.

[11:01]So you can imagine that during all this time,

[11:04]I've written this book and now people are,

[11:06]I'm having open house.

[11:07]I mean, I can't think that in my life,

[11:09]he has already so run away that they can run away

[11:11]with all these scenarios that could happen.

[11:13]And you know, but now I've, now I've thrown a body

[11:15]into the situation and I'm just like,

[11:16]oh my God, this is not a good thing to write about

[11:18]when you're about to do it.

[11:19]But I certainly, I have thought before,

[11:21]I have thought before that, you know, most,

[11:23]I think real estate agents, mostly are,

[11:25]maybe I'm not sure how it breaks down between gender.

[11:27]And of course, any gender is vulnerable.

[11:29]When you're somewhere expecting to welcome people

[11:32]in the door, who you don't know,

[11:34]and you're standing there by yourself.

[11:35]And it just felt like something about all those things

[11:38]together seem to work as to how that be the big set piece.

[11:40]And Katie, tell me about how you wrote this book.

[11:43]You have three kids.

[11:44]How old are your kids?

[11:45]Four.

[11:45]You have four.

[11:46]I'm so sorry.

[11:47]That's okay, that's okay.

[11:48]How old are your kids?

[11:49]So I have, my boys are, my oldest is about to be 10

[11:53]and my second oldest son is seven, just turns seven.

[11:56]And then I have twins.

[11:58]So I begged for my third baby and got twins.

[12:01]So I went on a campaign like, you know,

[12:03]all the reasons that we had that third.

[12:04]I mean, we just had to, you know,

[12:06]and finally my husband said, all right.

[12:08]And I went to that sonogram and I had my son with me.

[12:11]I had my youngest son because at that time,

[12:12]I didn't really use babysitters.

[12:14]I've since discovered the beauty of babysitters.

[12:15]I used to only write when they would nap.

[12:17]That was my, with the boys I wrote when they nap.

[12:19]I'm a pretty fast writer.

[12:20]So I feel that's like one thing I've got going for me is that

[12:22]I usually will sit down and there's, and I just write.

[12:25]I just get it done.

[12:26]It's gotta get done.

[12:27]It's like going to the gym or something.

[12:28]It feels good and it's in escape.

[12:29]And it's, it usually goes pretty quickly.

[12:31]So I went to the sonogram and she, you know,

[12:35]yeah, after it is you've gotten enough sonograms.

[12:36]You kind of know what you're looking at.

[12:38]But my real with me and I said,

[12:39]so at the time he was, yeah, so he was three.

[12:41]And I said, don't say the word pregnancy in front of him.

[12:43]He will understand his three, he'll understand.

[12:45]Please just don't use the word like baby pregnancy.

[12:49]Like he thought he was watching some cartoon

[12:51]that was blurry or something on this room.

[12:52]So she has something on there doing the thing.

[12:55]And I see two small people.

[12:58]What I thought was that.

[12:59]I mean, they were, did these two.

[13:00]And I'm just watching her do it.

[13:01]And she, she says to me, so now she knows,

[13:03]she's been given words like we're playing a game.

[13:04]She's been given words she can't set.

[13:06]So she says to me, oh, you know what I'm about the weather.

[13:09]And she says, so do twins run in your family.

[13:12]And I said, no, do they now?

[13:16]And she says, yes, they do.

[13:18]And there they were.

[13:19]And I'm like two little girls.

[13:21]And they are the, they're the dreamiest, funniest.

[13:23]They're almost three now.

[13:24]And they're, they're amazing.

[13:26]But it was such a surprise.

[13:28]I mean, that night I came home.

[13:30]So I texted my husband, everything's okay.

[13:31]I went to sonogram, everything's okay.

[13:32]I didn't want to tell him all he was at work over the phone.

[13:35]You know, because he's budgeted the rest of our lives.

[13:36]Will we be able to send them to college?

[13:39]And then we got home that night.

[13:40]And I made sure that he had some of my like very,

[13:42]very mediocre slash poor cooking, you know,

[13:45]just so he wouldn't faint or something.

[13:46]I had dinner and then I went out and broke the news.

[13:49]Oh my gosh, these are amazing girls.

[13:51]We are, we're crazy for them.

[13:52]So it's all really wonderful,

[13:54]but it was a quite a surprise.

[13:56]Wow.

[13:57]I had twins first.

[13:59]That's right.

[13:59]Yeah, my twins are almost 14.

[14:01]So crazy, 13 and a half, 14.

[14:03]Oh my, and then I had two other ones.

[14:05]But anyway, we can talk, you can talk twins another time.

[14:09]Crazy.

[14:09]Wait, okay, so now how on earth did you do this?

[14:12]Tell me.

[14:13]So, so usually what I'll do is the girls with nap

[14:16]in the beginning, when this book was getting written,

[14:18]the girls with nap from about like nine to 11 or nine to 10 30.

[14:22]And that is actually, thank God.

[14:24]All, I mean, I'm not writing more in peace either.

[14:25]So I feel like maybe it's just, you know,

[14:27]it is what it is.

[14:28]I write an hour and a half a day and that's it.

[14:29]Now they'll go, when they go to preschool,

[14:31]I will, I'll do more that I'll have nine to 12.

[14:34]But generally what I do is write in the morning.

[14:37]And now we have a wonderful setter.

[14:39]So if I need to do some writing,

[14:41]I'll do it in that two hour clip.

[14:42]I can't really write more than two hours.

[14:44]I don't know what it is,

[14:44]but it's not, I just need to just do it

[14:47]and get it done with and then it's done for the day.

[14:49]I might work up back to the point.

[14:50]I remember I started off ghost writing for a series.

[14:53]I'm not allowed to say what series it is,

[14:54]but I used to ghost write.

[14:56]And that was the best training in the world

[14:58]because you had to write a book in between six to eight weeks,

[15:01]a 65,000 word book.

[15:03]So you just had to get it done, you sat down

[15:04]and I would shoot for 2,000 words a day.

[15:06]Now I shoot for a thousand.

[15:08]And if I can do a thousand, I'm done.

[15:09]And as you know, you know, books are generally anywhere

[15:11]between 70 to 90,000 words.

[15:13]So what I always tell writers is like,

[15:15]even if you can just get a thousand words a day,

[15:17]you can have a book done in 70 days.

[15:19]You know, and you go back and edit and do all your stuff,

[15:21]but it's less of a mountain sometimes

[15:23]that I think it's made out to be,

[15:24]because you just get it done,

[15:25]even if the first draft is really not great,

[15:28]if you can commit to either 500 or a thousand words a day

[15:30]and then it'll get done.

[15:32]So take me back a little bit to how you started off.

[15:35]How did you get in the literary world time at the acting?

[15:37]Like how did this all just give me like a timeline

[15:39]of what happened here?

[15:40]So I went to school at Notre Dame

[15:43]and it was a, I went thinking I was gonna like,

[15:45]either be like, I always wanted to be a writer,

[15:48]but I figured, okay, I'll get my degree,

[15:49]I'll do something like, I think I studied sociology

[15:52]for a little while.

[15:53]And, but then somewhere sort of around sophomore year,

[15:56]I was just as loved acting so much.

[15:58]I'm like, I'm gonna be a theater major.

[15:59]So I like broke that news to my parents,

[16:00]which was not a conversation,

[16:03]but they're like very, they're hugely supportive,

[16:05]but they were kind of like, oh my gosh.

[16:07]And then, so that was really helpful

[16:08]because all those years I studied all this writing

[16:11]and all these characters.

[16:11]And you had to know that in every scene,

[16:13]your character wants something.

[16:14]And I always think about that now

[16:15]is writing like, what does this person really want?

[16:17]Like if every moment we're walking into a room

[16:20]with somewhat of a goal or something we want.

[16:22]So all that scene study and really getting into characters

[16:24]and dialogue was really was so helpful for now.

[16:27]So I did that there and then I graduated.

[16:29]And I, you know, I loved doing plays at Notre Dame so much.

[16:32]I love, I like, really am a, I am a workhorse.

[16:34]I had like many, many flaws,

[16:36]but I am a very, I love to work.

[16:38]I love to like work at something that I love.

[16:40]and not put it like cleaning my closet.

[16:42]I was always like a terrible intern places.

[16:43]Like I could never make the fax machine work.

[16:46]I had an internship at MTV.

[16:47]Like I was so bad at my job

[16:48]that they were like just sit in the corner

[16:50]and like read them scripts.

[16:51]Like you're not the intern that's super helpful.

[16:52]And you can't make the VHS tapes work.

[16:54]Like, so I graduated, I came to the city

[16:58]and what I really missed while I was acting was

[16:59]when you go from doing all these plays

[17:01]that you get roles in and you get to be with,

[17:03]you know, your fellow actors and you're rehearsing it.

[17:05]So fun.

[17:06]I got to the city and it was like, you went on auditions.

[17:08]So you would all day have this one audition.

[17:10]What you've got to say like one line

[17:11]about how creamy the yogurt is.

[17:14]And you're like, you don't,

[17:15]that the part where you're really working,

[17:17]working, working, working doesn't happen.

[17:18]So I, and like I barely got jobs.

[17:20]I did some, some, I definitely did some plays.

[17:22]Like one night, no one came to it.

[17:24]I had that happen.

[17:25]We did the importance of being earnest with my friend

[17:26]who's also now a writer.

[17:28]She's a memoirist and we were playing Sesame,

[17:30]Gwendolyn, and no one showed up.

[17:32]And we were just like, do we do the play for no one?

[17:35]I think we did.

[17:35]I don't know what happened but,

[17:37]and then I got some like random roles

[17:38]and independent films and things like that.

[17:39]And I loved it but, you know,

[17:41]I just sort of was like, I got into something else.

[17:42]So then when I was 24, I was working in this little boutique.

[17:45]I was making like, you know, $10 an hour,

[17:47]working as the person, as the person,

[17:49]as like the sales girl.

[17:50]And in the way that you do when you're 24

[17:53]and you have all this like gusto and I'm like,

[17:55]much more vulnerable now.

[17:57]And sort of like, oh, can I do that?

[17:59]Can I, can I get that canoe or will it tip over?

[18:02]Like I mean, now I'm like a different human back then

[18:04]though I didn't have kids yet.

[18:05]And I was like, you know, I was like 24 and I said,

[18:07]oh, I could make jewelry, just like this.

[18:10]Like, not just like this, but I could make some jewelry.

[18:12]It'll be fine.

[18:13]I'll just try to make some jewelry.

[18:14]So I made some jewelry.

[18:15]It was terrible.

[18:16]But one day I was wearing a piece at my job

[18:19]and someone said like, oh, I like that.

[18:20]And I was like, oh, it sounds there for $100,

[18:23]which I just came up with up top my head.

[18:24]And then I mean, it was like,

[18:25]it had taken me, it was somebody expensive to make it.

[18:28]It wasn't that I was trying to rip the lady off.

[18:29]It's more that I hadn't really set up something

[18:32]where I would really even,

[18:33]usually in that situation a boutique owner

[18:35]who is now my still my really good friend.

[18:37]Like luckily I should say.

[18:38]So then she said, well, if you're selling a jewelry,

[18:40]just like, she was too so nice.

[18:41]She was maybe five years older than me at the time.

[18:43]Well, still is since that helped.

[18:45]That's how like, you know,

[18:46]he said, oh, and clear off the shelf.

[18:49]You can sell your jewelry here.

[18:51]So I made all this jewelry.

[18:52]And for some reason, it totally took off.

[18:53]Like celebrity started coming in and wearing it.

[18:56]Kate Winslet came in

[18:56]and she's like my favorite person in the world.

[18:58]And I couldn't tell, I was so nervous.

[19:00]I couldn't tell that it was mine.

[19:01]I actually was just like, this is so lovely.

[19:03]And I was like, I saw Titanic 12 times.

[19:07]In the theater, not just 12 times.

[19:09]And she bought a piece like all these big,

[19:11]like you know, big stars bought it.

[19:12]And then all these magazines started covering it.

[19:14]And it was one of those strange occurrences

[19:15]of how sometimes you don't set out to do something.

[19:18]Like it was almost like the jewelry was like an afterthought.

[19:20]I was like, well, I really want to be a writer or an actress.

[19:22]That's what I want to do.

[19:24]And the jewelry was the thing that actually happened.

[19:26]And so then I started going on styles like being a TV host

[19:30]for, you know, I had only done acting,

[19:31]but TV was like a pretty natural switch.

[19:33]And you can kind of go and make up something

[19:35]about some pair of pants that you could match

[19:36]with a shirt in this pair of hearings.

[19:37]So I went on as like a style expert in places.

[19:40]I did the, I had a, I did, I did,

[19:41]I posted the show on the home shopping network.

[19:43]Which was so fun.

[19:44]I was 29.

[19:45]They would find me down in Florida.

[19:46]It was like the height of my whole life experience.

[19:48]It was so fun.

[19:49]They did your makeup.

[19:50]You got to have like snacks in your green room.

[19:53]And I love snacks.

[19:55]And it was great.

[19:57]It was great.

[19:57]And then from there, I thought, okay,

[19:59]like the one thing.

[20:00]kept sticking out to me was, if I hadn't done the jewelry thing, if I just said, no, that's not what I'm going to do. I'm a writer. I'm an actress. I'm not, you know, I'm not going to try something different. None of that would have happened. And so I felt like there should be a book about, you know, like making a, making your creative way as a creative person and saying yes to a lot of different things to see what sticks and see how it happens.

[20:18]So I wrote this proposal for a book called Creative Girl, which did sell. It sold to Jennifer Cassius at running press. Joe, I love her. She's so nice. She's lovely. And so she shebered me through this book. I found my agent that way and my agent is still my agent now is the most wonderful human on the whole planet is wonderful. And so that all helped because then, so then I wrote a novel and I was like, well, this is the best thing ever. Like writing, getting up, writing in your jammies and like just getting your stuff done. You don't need anybody else's permission to work when you write.

[20:48]You just need a computer, which is a big privilege, a computer in a space and time, which all those things are, you know, not the easiest to get. But if you have that, you can write something. So I thought, well, now I want to try this. So I wrote a novel after that, but it didn't sell. And I was heartbroken. I was like a 350 page like paranormal romance. And it didn't sell.

[21:04]But I was at that point so stubborn. I was like, I'm going to make this work. It's has to work. I got to figure out how to do this because this is the best job. And at that point, I was 2930 thinking about starting a family and thinking this would be the best job.

[21:14]You know, versus flying down to Florida and filming a TV show. It was actually a really wonderful job to just when your child maps or whatever. You know, I didn't really know at that point what it would entail.

[21:23]But I thought this would be something I could do. So I just kept writing and then I got a job doing the ghost writing. So I wrote three books that were not under my own name. One was a revision, two or ones that I fully wrote.

[21:33]And then because of that, so I got the attention of an editor at Harper Collins named Alessandra Balzer, who's a wonderful, wonderful person. And I, there was a woman who named Brenda Bowen.

[21:44]And she had this idea for a book called the boyfriend app and she said, what if we, and she gave me one line. She was so free about it. She was like, what if there was this book about a girl who creates a boyfriend app in her phone and it can get her any guy that she wants.

[21:56]So laid back up and she said, go. And then like, take it, take it and run. So I wrote a proposal for that book and Brenda and I presented that book to Alessandra and she bought it in a preamp, which was so exciting.

[22:06]And that's like sort of where it started. They then signed me up for that book was a two book deal. So I did the boyfriend app, the pretty app and then Alessandra signed me up for the Academy, which is the book that came out in 2018.

[22:15]So I did that all the boys were little. And then I felt I really, we moved up to Westchester and I started to feel more like an adult and I wanted to write about adults.

[22:23]And I felt like at this point, I was a mother, I was a married, married, you know, several years and I just wanted to write about adult things.

[22:30]And so my agent said to me one, I was taking a break and a huge revision on the Academy.

[22:34]And my agent said, just take the summer and go write the book that you want to read.

[22:39]And I just want you to sit down, write the book that you, you wish you had this summer to read.

[22:43]And so I wrote, we were mothers in six weeks now open house took me a bazillion years to write.

[22:48]So sometimes it doesn't happen, but we were mothers was like one of those magical ones where I couldn't wait.

[22:52]I don't outline on purpose so that I don't know what happens that I can't wait to see what happens.

[22:57]And the character sort of do their own thing and I just kind of like quickly write it down and they often will surprise me and do strange things and say strange things and things that I didn't see coming.

[23:05]Like in open house, the person who ends up doing it, I have gone the entire, I don't want to spoil it for anyone who hasn't read it, but I've gone the entire book thinking that it was someone else.

[23:14]And then all of a sudden they were down there and you know what happens and then it felt like that's what it is.

[23:18]And so then I went back and I felt like that's the puck and I showed my agent he was like, that's the book, that's the ending, that's it right there.

[23:24]And you know he says what he says when he's down there and all that stuff.

[23:27]So I went back and sort of added some things to that character to sort of hopefully have there be some meat there and some other things going on that would make you think.

[23:36]Yep, that could happen.

[23:38]And so, and so then so we were mothers went quickly and sold to Carmen Johnson at Amazon little a who is wonderful.

[23:45]And then she sent me up for open house and then I have another book with them called the break that's going to come out.

[23:51]I think it's in 2022 and I have to I think it's fall 2022 I have to check that and it's about a mom who she goes to give birth and in New York City hospital.

[24:00]And she has a traumatic birth and she can't remember the birth and often much of what leads up to it she just can't it's she's a terrible birth, which is happened to frankly a decent amount of my friends and it felt like something that I wanted to write about and I and I think it's really under talked about and.

[24:13]I'm hoping to sort of in this thriller I'm hoping to talk really respectfully I'm hoping to do it well to talk about maternal health and people needing help and not always getting it and all the things that go into the postpartum period.

[24:25]And I was home with her beautiful baby girl and her sitter was a 22 year old she's an actress she's a much in the same position that I was in when I first arrived in the city.

[24:34]She has this sitter I also babysat a ton when I got to the city and Rowan my main character who's 34 accuses June the sitter of harming the baby when June has not so so Rowan experiences this huge break things her baby has been harmed starts to scream at June and looks down and sees that her baby is right there in the best net is completely fine.

[24:52]So June leave the apartment, the neighbors have heard that there's been a kerfluffle because I want to set it in the West Village of Manhattan which is where we used to live and they you know everybody knows your business sort of out in hallway especially and so.

[25:03]The neighbors have heard what has happened and the next day June goes missing and of course, Rowan is expected so Rowan will sort of need to peace remind back together like this postpartum mind back together.

[25:12]To be able to figure out what happened to June and I'm hoping to tell it from both of their perspectives that's what I'm doing now I'm about maybe 40 50 pages into.

[25:19]Rowan and then all the switch into June you'll see her six months before and sort of leading up and what she's gotten herself what what sort of going on in that whole world between everyone that's in it with all the other men and women that are you know in it.

[25:30]So we'll see.

[25:31]So I'm happy to it's nice to have work like when you're creative person it's nice to be signed up for something because you know it okay the next two years at least I can work on this and.

[25:39]And I'm employed and those are things obviously to feel very grateful for anybody but and when you're creative and you don't have a consistent paycheck it's nice to feel like okay and know what I'm doing for the next two years.

[25:49]That's amazing.

[25:50]What a story.

[25:51]I feel like I'm so inspired by your whole trajectory and your energy.

[25:58]It's awesome.

[25:59]You're trajectory and your energy and your books.

[26:04]Oh my gosh.

[26:05]I love it.

[26:06]Amazing.

[26:07]So do you have advice for aspiring authors.

[26:10]And so my biggest thing is just to write every day and what I think people forget is when you first separate when you first start writing it's often really crappy.

[26:17]I was in a class when I was 28 and I kid you not.

[26:21]I didn't know whether you put the question mark.

[26:24]I remember this ability.

[26:25]I'm 28 years old.

[26:26]I was I was started off as like.

[26:28]I don't know how I didn't learn this but I didn't know that you put the question mark inside the quotation marks.

[26:33]I was putting it outside.

[26:34]This is only 12 years ago.

[26:36]I feel like when you start sometimes it's crappy and the first one doesn't sell but if you really want to do it you just keep doing them.

[26:43]And it's also the other thing that I always like to remind people is and it's hard.

[26:47]When you hear this from someone who's been published you're like oh come on you're right.

[26:50]But first of all the publishing thing is one thing.

[26:52]It's also nice to be paid for your work.

[26:54]So that's for sure.

[26:55]But also writing a whole novel and letting people into your world is by far the most gratifying thing.

[27:01]And it's really the fact that you listened to this book and you know these characters who are so real to me.

[27:05]And my favorite part of every single book I write is I send the first draft of my dad.

[27:09]And it's by far the best part.

[27:11]It doesn't get better than that debt.

[27:12]He reads it.

[27:13]And of course he loves it because he's my dad.

[27:15]But also he talks about the characters like they're real.

[27:17]He says to me like you know do you think that this would happen or should this happen?

[27:21]Like if that conversation I look forward to the entire process that I write a book.

[27:25]So to sort of remember that your close people people that are close you are going to read the story whether it sells or not.

[27:30]So just sit down and write the first one and then keep writing it until you get where you want to be either somebody picks it up or you self publish it or you do what you want to do with it.

[27:38]But if you really love to write, I think you just you just do it every day.

[27:43]And it's helpful to set a word count.

[27:44]It is for me.

[27:45]I say do that too.

[27:46]And then you can quickly get to your goal of having a finished book.

[27:48]Awesome.

[27:49]Okay well first of all we have to get together after this because we have so just so many things in common.

[27:56]So many additional questions I want to talk to you about but we're like almost out of time.

[28:00]I can't believe it.

[28:01]I cannot wait to read your next book or listen to it.

[28:04]I am thrilled to have connected with you.

[28:06]I'm just so excited about this whole thing.

[28:08]And I'm so energized that like everything you say just like validates so many things that like deep within me.

[28:16]I believe that like you just have to keep going.

[28:19]And the first novels are usually terrible.

[28:21]And if you love it you'll just keep doing it.

[28:24]And it almost makes me like how real characters are is something I've been like mowing over.

[28:31]Like they like all day I talk to people about their characters who they believe are basically real people.

[28:35]It's like I want to now have a party for just all the characters.

[28:39]I mean like I feel like I know these people really well.

[28:42]Then in town like sometimes I think one of them is going to walk in and I wouldn't even be surprised.

[28:45]I would just like get her a coffee.

[28:47]I mean depending on which character it was.

[28:49]Some of them I would not buy a coffee for.

[28:50]But that's true.

[28:51]Yeah.

[28:52]Got to be careful.

[28:53]Yeah.

[28:54]Amazing.

[28:55]Well Katie thank you.

[28:56]I'm excited to follow the rest of your career and we will definitely be talking more.

[28:59]And thank you for coming on the podcast.

[29:01]So much for having me.

[29:02]Thank you thank you.

[29:03]All your author support and your what you do is awesome.

[29:06]So thank you so much.

[29:07]Thank you.

[29:08]Okay.

[29:09]Bye.

[29:10]Thanks for listening to this episode of Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books.

[29:14]Don't forget to follow me on Instagram at zebi Owens and at Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books.

[29:19]Also sign up for my newsletter at zebiowens.com and sign up for my virtual book club and meet lots of authors on Zoom every other week.

[29:26]Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan in fact texture sound for the sound editing.

[29:30]And thank you to Morning Moon Productions for providing this fantastic intro and outroom music.