Sarah Langan, GOOD NEIGHBORS
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[0:35]Okay, now back to this amazing podcast.
[0:38]Sarah Langen is the author of Good Neighbors, a novel.
[0:42]Sarah grew up on Long Island in a town called Garden City,
[0:44]but not on a crescent bordering a park,
[0:46]which you will understand if you read the book.
[0:49]She got her MFA in creative writing from Columbia University,
[0:52]and also received her Masters in Environmental Health Science,
[0:55]slash toxicology from New York University.
[0:58]She currently lives in Los Angeles with her husband and daughters,
[1:01]and has received three Bram Stoker awards.
[1:04]Her work has also been included in Best of the Year list
[1:06]and anthologies.
[1:07]She's a founding member of the Shirley Jackson Awards,
[1:10]and works in both film and prose.
[1:12]This is her fourth novel,
[1:13]and it was a Barnes and Noble Book Club pick.
[1:16]Welcome, Sarah.
[1:17]Thank you so much for coming on Momstone Have Time to Read books,
[1:20]to discuss Good Neighbors.
[1:22]Thank you.
[1:24]Thank you.
[1:25]And congratulations on this being a Barnes and Noble
[1:27]book club pick.
[1:28]You know, you're excited for your event with Jillian Flynn.
[1:31]That's so exciting.
[1:33]I'm really excited.
[1:34]It feels unreal.
[1:35]Like, I think I'll believe it happened to like a year from now.
[1:40]It's all on Zoom.
[1:41]It's like things on Zoom.
[1:44]It could be a deep fade.
[1:45]Yeah.
[1:45]Did it really happen or not?
[1:47]I don't know.
[1:48]Right?
[1:48]It's like nothing in real life seems to be actually happening.
[1:52]This virtual reality world we live in.
[1:54]But anyway, but it did happen that you got picked for Barnes
[1:58]and Noble.
[1:58]So what was that like?
[1:59]Were you super excited to find that out?
[2:01]Yeah.
[2:02]Yeah.
[2:02]And I, you know, like my heart started pounding and everything.
[2:07]And then I thought, well, it's the same thing.
[2:09]Really?
[2:10]Like, because we're all at home.
[2:12]You know, it's just the only way we're hearing about the world
[2:14]outside us through email.
[2:17]So it's like, how do we know they're not going to change their mind?
[2:21]Yeah.
[2:23]So, so it was really exciting.
[2:25]And then when the book came out, because it was a book club
[2:27]selection, I had it on front tables or at least tables in all
[2:31]of their stores in California.
[2:33]So I COVID safe, visited 44 stores.
[2:37]No.
[2:37]In the signs.
[2:38]Oh my gosh.
[2:40]Well, I'll do more.
[2:42]But like I walk in and I have my own pen and I have two masks.
[2:46]And I just like talk to them and now they know I'm coming.
[2:50]So many.
[2:51]And I just have a sign and they take a picture.
[2:53]And then I give one of my books to, because I have stock to one
[2:57]of the managers.
[2:58]And it's fun.
[2:59]And it feels like a real.
[3:00]So I'm really glad I did it first off, because I got to meet
[3:03]some people.
[3:04]And I never have that opportunity.
[3:06]You know, it's unusual for a book to be selected by Barnes
[3:10]and Noble and in their fun stores.
[3:12]So I wanted to capitalize on that and enjoy it.
[3:15]But also it just made it feel really real.
[3:17]So I was glad to do it.
[3:19]That's awesome.
[3:20]The Barnes and Noble closest to us here on the uppery side
[3:22]went out of business.
[3:23]And it was like a multi floor imporium.
[3:26]And I used to go all the time.
[3:27]And I would let my older kids like go run around and then like
[3:30]go pick them up an hour later.
[3:31]And now it's gone.
[3:32]It's so sad.
[3:33]But anyway, I'll get down to Union Square or something and go
[3:36]check out your book on the shelves.
[3:40]So let's talk about your book.
[3:41]Good neighbors.
[3:42]Ironic titles and you know, are they really good neighbors?
[3:45]Not so much.
[3:46]So I love that you have this combination of a background
[3:50]and toxicology and also creative writing.
[3:52]And you use all of that to like have this big sinkhole happen
[3:57]and ooze out from the sidewalk and like capture a dog and all
[4:01]the stuff that happens in this neighborhood.
[4:03]And yet you put it in this like literary fiction type of story.
[4:08]It's like the perfect blending of all of your stuff.
[4:11]So tell me about how tell me about the impetus
[4:13]and how you decided to write this book.
[4:15]So I tend to write start things.
[4:19]By the seat of my pants.
[4:20]And I just go in and I don't know what I'm going to do.
[4:22]And usually I have like 30 different ideas on 100 different
[4:26]characters.
[4:27]And I know that there's something.
[4:28]I know there's some best iteration.
[4:31]And this is my fifth novel.
[4:33]My fourth that's been published.
[4:36]And I feel like I got it right.
[4:37]That's time.
[4:39]Yeah, don't always.
[4:40]Where it's like, yes, they all came together and they all fit
[4:44]in a way that was right.
[4:46]And that's what I was trying to do.
[4:48]And that sort of started from the subconscious
[4:50]and then made its way into something that really was cohesive.
[4:54]I started a long time ago and I was working in my first three
[4:57]books were horror.
[4:58]And so I was just writing another horror novel,
[5:01]which is I don't mean justice, you know, a feat.
[5:04]But the narrative I couldn't make work
[5:07]because the story was too human.
[5:10]And there was a conflict.
[5:12]I kept trying to bring a monster out
[5:14]because I know how to do that.
[5:15]And I know, you know, it's like you've done it before.
[5:18]So and adjust the characters' personal stories
[5:23]were so much more important than any monster
[5:26]that it just the monster every time felt wrong.
[5:29]So I put the book aside and then I kind of realized
[5:32]years later after I wrote another book in between
[5:35]that I shouldn't write horror.
[5:37]And I was like, this is terrifying, you know.
[5:42]Like Raymond Chandler says like when he gets stuck,
[5:45]he always has a character walking with a gun, you know.
[5:47]And then you keep moving.
[5:48]And I was like, what do I do when I can't have a character
[5:51]walking with a gun?
[5:52]So I really had to learn how to not write horror,
[5:57]which was fun.
[5:57]It was hard.
[5:58]It was fun.
[5:59]Irony.
[6:00]And so Scariest story ends up being the writing
[6:03]of the book itself.
[6:07]Anyway, sorry, go on.
[6:09]Well, so I once I disposed of the idea of a monster,
[6:13]I had to think about what are, how do personal relationships
[6:16]work?
[6:17]How do I really talk about modern mentality?
[6:19]So I studied Kitty Genevieve.
[6:20]Oh yeah.
[6:21]That story of how this woman in the 1970s
[6:26]was supposedly murdered outside of her apartment building
[6:30]in Queens.
[6:31]And it was used as a justification for people
[6:35]to flee the city.
[6:37]And it was a really popular myth because I
[6:39]think it made people feel OK about white flight.
[6:42]And I think that's why it got its traction.
[6:45]So there's so much going on.
[6:46]But on top of that, the story is false.
[6:50]She didn't dialogue.
[6:52]The neighbors did call the police.
[6:54]When they saw that she was struggling,
[6:55]one of them came in and held her as she died.
[6:57]But for whatever reason, even in sociology classes
[7:01]until 10 years ago, it was taught that people are bad.
[7:05]And they do these bad things.
[7:06]And there's this bystander effect.
[7:08]And no one helps each other.
[7:10]So I was really surprised that it wasn't true.
[7:14]And then I looked at the Stanford prison experiment,
[7:17]which I was taught in college.
[7:19]And that experiment is about how if you have guards and prisoners
[7:23]and they're just students, but you tell them to take these roles,
[7:26]that one will become more masochistic and one
[7:28]will become more sadistic.
[7:30]And then fill the roles they're told to fill.
[7:32]And we're taught that in sociology class.
[7:34]And that too is a lie.
[7:36]That experiment was debunked.
[7:37]The guy who ran it stopped it because not actually,
[7:41]because everyone was being masochistic and sadistic.
[7:44]But because it was a false experiment,
[7:46]because everyone around him, there were his students.
[7:49]They knew what he wanted from them.
[7:51]They were providing it to them.
[7:52]And they were just being nice.
[7:53]And they weren't taking it as seriously
[7:55]as he pretended or as that footage shows.
[7:58]It was just it was popular because people
[8:00]like telling scary stories about what people are really like.
[8:04]So then I was like, so people are good, you know?
[8:08]But I want to tell a story about what's happening right now
[8:11]in the world.
[8:12]Like this Trump Republican Democrat polarized nation
[8:18]were so fractured and were so because of social network.
[8:21]So then I started studying the social network.
[8:24]This was long.
[8:25]And the social network I realized was like,
[8:27]was something that was hijacking our best-inch instincts
[8:33]and making us more radical in ways
[8:36]that we wouldn't ordinarily be.
[8:38]And I thought that's maybe that explains more of this
[8:42]than this humans are inherently bad.
[8:46]But that sort of we've been captured by this system
[8:51]where we're told that we are morally obliged
[8:55]to constantly state our opinions about things
[8:58]that we don't even know everything about.
[9:00]And then if we don't state our opinions
[9:02]that we're failing people and people are being hurt
[9:05]and people are dying and our only agency is to talk
[9:10]and to rile each other up.
[9:11]And I think the inevitable end to that was the capital.
[9:14]So then that's where I really sort of got steam.
[9:18]And then I also had to think, well, who would be the leader?
[9:22]The ringleader of something like this.
[9:24]And I started studying narcissism and narcissistic
[9:27]personality disorder.
[9:28]And reassured her is clearly a narcissist.
[9:32]And I was like, oh, this is perfect
[9:34]because they're the only same people
[9:36]who are so attached to their facade
[9:39]that if anyone were to threaten it,
[9:42]they would be driven to murder.
[9:44]So all work together.
[9:45]And I think like the story isn't about people or about,
[9:50]the story is really about this is the way people
[9:53]who are good could be hijacked.
[9:55]And even the narcissist is a good person.
[9:58]And this is, you know, it's.
[10:00]cautionary tale, but it's also about the people
[10:03]who avoid that hijacking were the kids.
[10:06]So, wow, lots to discuss in there.
[10:08]Yeah.
[10:11]First of all, I was a psychology major,
[10:13]and I feel like this interview has now justified
[10:15]my entire college education,
[10:17]because you've referenced things
[10:19]through so many different classes.
[10:20]And I'm so glad I still remember what they were.
[10:22]So, yes, I'm like, oh, kidding, Genevieve,
[10:24]I did that in such a sense, like, and also narcissism,
[10:28]I mean, yes, I'm well acquainted with some narcissists,
[10:32]and I'm very familiar with that personality type.
[10:35]And I think that the way you portrayed Rhea
[10:37]was so, though, sympathetic, to be honest,
[10:40]because you explained her loss and her close relationship
[10:44]with her dad and the loss of that
[10:46]and what made her get a drift, right?
[10:49]Everything, so you paint her in a picture
[10:51]where you understand, like, oh, yeah,
[10:53]you can see how someone would have trouble,
[10:55]which I think is what you're trying to say
[10:57]about narcissists, right, that like, it comes,
[10:59]doesn't necessarily come from a bad place,
[11:01]is maybe bad things make you a narcissist, I don't know.
[11:04]I, no, I think that every bad behavior
[11:09]can be attributed to people fighting with ghosts,
[11:12]you know, they're really not trying to hurt you,
[11:16]they're seeing something, they're seeing a threat
[11:18]that's not there from their past.
[11:20]And they're just, it's some defense mechanism kicking in.
[11:24]And those people are in real pain,
[11:27]which is like, since I've been thinking about that,
[11:31]it's so much easier to get along with people
[11:32]who are troublesome.
[11:34]Because I mean, oh my God, you're in firefly right now,
[11:38]you're freaking out, you think that I'm doing something to you
[11:41]and I'm not, you know, or you think,
[11:43]and it's really, I think, recognizing that people are in pain
[11:48]and that people who misbehave are in pain.
[11:51]It's not, it doesn't forgive them of their behavior,
[11:54]but it makes it so much more understandable.
[11:56]And it makes it much easier to diffuse
[11:59]because you don't have to come back and say,
[12:01]no, no, you know, you can just move on,
[12:03]you know, I think that's the best way to handle that.
[12:06]Let's not talk about the subject that triggers you, you know?
[12:09]So just not engaged, right?
[12:11]Just like.
[12:12]Yeah, I mean, I think there's so many other,
[12:13]when you see someone freak out like that,
[12:16]you're not gonna get through.
[12:19]What they're seeing is so scary,
[12:21]you can't get through to that.
[12:23]You just have to find another way.
[12:25]And in all your research,
[12:26]is there anything you found that can stop the ghosts?
[12:30]I think adulthood.
[12:32]And I think, yeah, I mean, I think maturity
[12:34]and being surrounded by people who listen
[12:37]and finding people in your life that listen
[12:40]so that you're not so scared.
[12:41]But I think also Rhea is trying to cure herself
[12:46]at the start of this, because she knows something's wrong,
[12:48]but she's so deeply entwined in the mass
[12:51]that she's created for herself.
[12:53]And she's, you know, it's a dual reality for her.
[12:56]Have you seen the movie Bad Moms?
[12:58]Yes.
[12:59]So, you know, I recently re-watched this
[13:01]when I was in bed with COVID for nine days.
[13:05]I could finally watch some movies.
[13:07]Anyway, the Christina Applegate character,
[13:09]who's like the terror of the PTA.
[13:11]In the end, you find out that like really, you know,
[13:14]her husband is inside her trading
[13:16]and she's lost everything and her life's a mess.
[13:19]So then you look back and you're like,
[13:20]oh, that's the way, that's why she is the way she is.
[13:22]And I thought of Rhea who like,
[13:24]becomes the whole organizer of the neighborhood
[13:27]and all the things that she does
[13:28]and it seemed kind of similar to me in a way.
[13:30]It's a super effective defense mechanism
[13:33]to take a power position so that no one else can judge you.
[13:36]It's like, it's, you're the least vulnerable person
[13:39]in the room, you know, it's exactly what a narcissist would do.
[13:43]Wow.
[13:44]I feel like I need to read your textbook on narcissism.
[13:46]I feel like we need to have an offline discussion.
[13:49]This is like, you have some sort of inside scoop
[13:54]into this whole thing.
[13:55]So pretty awesome.
[13:57]There was one passage I wanted to read if you don't mind.
[14:01]Yeah.
[14:01]I'm debating where I should start it
[14:02]in her pre-fritz life and blah, blah, blah.
[14:05]Well, I'll just start here.
[14:06]It was all surface.
[14:07]No laughs, no confidence is no companionship.
[14:10]It was so lonely.
[14:11]The first 10 years, she cried a lot,
[14:13]but she kept it a secret, a hidden shame
[14:15]because she was sure that her lackluster marriage
[14:17]was evidence of her own inadequacy.
[14:19]If she confessed her loneliness to Fritz,
[14:21]he'd know the truth that she was messed up.
[14:23]He divorced her.
[14:24]His lawyer would unearth the accident.
[14:26]Everyone would know why she'd been fired from UW.
[14:29]All of Maple Street.
[14:29]They'd look at her and see right through her.
[14:31]They'd know everything, unthinkable.
[14:33]And so she dried her eyes.
[14:35]She buried her loneliness so deeply
[14:37]that she lost the knowledge of it.
[14:39]She stopped seeing it.
[14:40]That was so great.
[14:42]Oh, I'm glad we're talking about it.
[14:44]I was like, is narcissist the wrong direction to take this,
[14:46]but yeah, you are a psychology major, that is.
[14:49]Yeah.
[14:51]Yeah, it's like sometimes you can just deny something
[14:55]enough that it becomes your truth, right?
[14:57]And then all of a sudden,
[14:58]Rhea not only has a list,
[14:59]but it's like then she's carrying around secrets.
[15:01]And of course, the corrosive power of secrets is like the worst.
[15:05]Yeah, I mean, I think she feels like she's rotten.
[15:10]Like she's the worst, most horrible, disgusting, non-human.
[15:15]And like she just needs to keep it together
[15:18]for people not to find that out,
[15:19]because if they do, her world's gonna fall apart,
[15:22]no one will ever.
[15:24]And like it's a funny thing about any kind of coping mechanism
[15:28]that you create, which is that everybody sees you.
[15:31]Like you don't realize it, but they know exactly who you are.
[15:36]They see your flaws completely.
[15:38]It's sad for that reason,
[15:40]because I think her family knows exactly who she is.
[15:43]Wow.
[15:44]And then of course, we have then we have, you know,
[15:48]the other couple who now I'm forgetting everybody's name.
[15:51]The wild.
[15:52]The wild. Thank you.
[15:53]And how like misfit they feel in the entire community
[15:57]and how, you know, someone can be like a beauty queen,
[16:01]but yet is signaling all the wrong things
[16:03]to their community and feeling constantly excluded
[16:06]and has to rely almost on the kids
[16:09]to like get invited to a party or whatever.
[16:11]So I feel like there are neighbors
[16:14]who are discriminated against by how they look.
[16:16]And you know, interestingly, this is not about race.
[16:20]This is about just one person looking different
[16:24]and acting different.
[16:25]And like the man with all the tattoos on his friend,
[16:28]for it's smoking and versus, you know,
[16:30]all the like preppy people going off on their lives
[16:32]and how it feels to be different.
[16:34]So I don't know, talk a little bit about
[16:36]how you made that family like a central feature
[16:39]and just so other.
[16:41]Well, I grew up in like a conservative Long Island,
[16:44]town on Long Island and it was mostly Republican
[16:48]and like the thing that the kids wore
[16:50]were like polo shirts and et cetera.
[16:54]And you just reminded me of like my really good friend
[16:57]in high school when I would go to pick her up.
[17:00]Like we couldn't honk.
[17:01]We had to go the door or dad would come out furious
[17:04]because that wasn't what ladies were supposed to do, you know?
[17:08]And like she always had to wear a belt
[17:09]and she was never allowed to wear jeans.
[17:11]Yeah.
[17:13]And I can't imagine if like somebody with tattoos
[17:15]was smoking on the front stoop.
[17:17]And it's like you get to smoke.
[17:18]You get you had to smoke in secret someplace
[17:21]and you could drink a lot,
[17:23]but you had to do it somewhere in a way
[17:26]that was not noticeable.
[17:28]You couldn't get loud drunk.
[17:30]So I think there's all these rules
[17:32]that particularly come with people aspiring
[17:35]for up on the upper middle class.
[17:37]And they want to signal that
[17:40]and they want their children to follow those rules
[17:44]because they know it's true.
[17:46]Their kids are gonna do better if their kids are at like that.
[17:48]So I think walking into that and thinking like,
[17:51]I want a piece of this.
[17:53]I want a piece of the American dream.
[17:55]I haven't had it easy.
[17:57]I want my kids to have it easier.
[17:59]I'm gonna figure this out.
[18:00]I think it's much easier said than done
[18:03]if you have no experience with what the middle class looks like
[18:07]with what a nuclear family looks like.
[18:09]Because a nuclear family is like a mystery in its own.
[18:12]So I think there wasn't much that, you know,
[18:15]I exaggerated it, you know, she's a former beauty queen
[18:19]and she comes off cold because she's so frightened
[18:22]of everyone that she's just constantly
[18:24]stiffly smiling and trying to do everything right.
[18:27]Meanwhile, she's got like, you know, two tops on
[18:29]and like, you know, suburban moms do not have bodies
[18:33]for two tops and it's insulting to them.
[18:36]They don't like it.
[18:37]So, you know, it's like in a front and she's pregnant, right?
[18:43]And she's pregnant, right?
[18:45]That worse.
[18:46]I mean, come on.
[18:46]Yeah.
[18:48]Well, she could get away with that.
[18:49]I know she can,
[18:50]but I'm sure everybody else would be annoyed, right?
[18:53]Like, yeah, her pregnant looks better.
[18:55]Look, she looks better pregnant than I look normally.
[18:58]Like that kind of thing.
[18:59]Yes.
[19:00]I'm there all in my turn.
[19:01]I'm wearing blue, blue, blue, lemon pants right now.
[19:03]So I can say, they're all in like, blue, blue, lemon.
[19:07]Like, glassy.
[19:08]Yeah, I don't know.
[19:09]And they've got the accents,
[19:10]but what also, you know, if you were to ask them,
[19:13]what have you read lately?
[19:14]They'd be like, well, I read this self-help book
[19:16]about the secrets of the rich.
[19:19]Everyone would be like, why is it, you know?
[19:22]So they just don't fit.
[19:24]And they're kind of, what's worse is you kind of depend
[19:27]on word of mouth in most jobs and connections.
[19:31]And she's a real estate broker and he's a salesman.
[19:34]And they're thinking they're going to get more conditions.
[19:36]And in fact, they get less when they move to this wealth,
[19:39]they've neighborhood, because nobody thinks they would be
[19:41]confident enough to do any kind of work for them or to be
[19:47]vouched for.
[19:48]So it's a disaster.
[19:51]And I think it would be a disaster for anyone
[19:53]trying to hold on to the American dream
[19:56]and move into and go upwardly mobile.
[19:59]It's really hard.
[20:00]And I wanted to talk about that a little bit.
[20:02]And then what happens is they're befriended by the queen bee,
[20:06]who's next door, who's like, they're actually refreshing.
[20:10]And I kind of hate my life.
[20:11]And I would like something interesting to happen.
[20:13]And I'd like to meet some interesting new people.
[20:16]So it starts with that.
[20:17]And then what happens is there's a misunderstanding
[20:21]between the moms, between the queen bee and between gritty.
[20:24]And they don't, they read each other wrong.
[20:27]And it hits both of their defenses in such a way
[20:31]that they're both terrified.
[20:32]And it's a disaster.
[20:34]And suddenly the whole block turns against the wild family
[20:39]just as a sinkhole opens.
[20:41]And one of the children falls inside.
[20:43]And then they begin to think, maybe the wild
[20:45]said something to do with this.
[20:47]Maybe the wilds are responsible for this injured child.
[20:51]Look at them.
[20:52]They're so weird.
[20:54]They would have to be the ones to blame.
[20:56]Dant, dant dant.
[20:59]Wow.
[21:00]That's amazing.
[21:01]Well, somehow, we've just talked for so long.
[21:04]And I feel like we're just getting going here.
[21:06]Tell me what else you have coming next.
[21:09]Do you have other monsters coming out again?
[21:12]And the next one, are we delving more deeply into psychological
[21:16]narratives or what's next?
[21:19]I think it's more psychological.
[21:20]So the next one, Simon and she's her has it.
[21:23]And her partial edit.
[21:25]And they seem to like it so I think it'll move forward.
[21:27]And not horror, but I like community,
[21:31]the ways the community works.
[21:33]And I like the ways I like using towns and blocks
[21:38]as metaphors for America.
[21:41]And I think these American stories I like telling
[21:44]and I like learning and trying to make sense
[21:47]of the world in ways in that way.
[21:49]And I feel like I can do it,
[21:51]so maybe it's my job to do it
[21:52]because I feel like there's so much fracture going on
[21:57]in this country and it's so hard to make sense.
[22:00]So the next book is about a town, you know,
[22:05]supposed to block.
[22:06]And probably this as much as I can say.
[22:08]The last most recent publications I've had
[22:11]are The Nightmares, which was published in Best Horror
[22:16]the Year of Volume 12.
[22:18]And it's not scary.
[22:19]It's about a mom who just had her third child
[22:22]and she hires a nightmares because she's not gonna
[22:24]get any help.
[22:25]And it's just about how, you know, those hours
[22:27]when you've had a baby, yeah.
[22:30]And you're just lonely and exhausted.
[22:32]And you're like, should I drink wine for breakfast?
[22:34]I have no, I'm so excited.
[22:36]And I have to get kids dressed into preschool
[22:40]and I have a baby.
[22:41]So it's like that three months that is so,
[22:45]you're so vulnerable is that story.
[22:47]And then the other story is called
[22:49]You Have the prettiest mask.
[22:51]And that was published in Lady Churchill's Rosebud
[22:54]Rislet.
[22:55]And that is about a bunch of tween girls who,
[22:59]this was like, I wrote this before the plague,
[23:04]but it's about plague masks.
[23:06]So it's like, it's anti-mask, but I'm not anti-mask.
[23:11]So it's a tough one, that it's about girls
[23:14]who when they turn 13, they have to have balls
[23:16]and then they have to wear masks for the rest of us.
[23:19]So, well, that's a not horror again.
[23:22]It's more about social stuff.
[23:24]It's a think face.
[23:27]But amazing.
[23:29]Well, do you have any advice for aspiring authors?
[23:32]Yeah, you know, it's two things.
[23:34]One advice is free.
[23:36]So it's worth what free things are worth.
[23:38]You know, I don't know anyone's particular circumstances
[23:42]and everyone really has to find their own way
[23:46]because everyone has their own unique voice.
[23:49]That's one, number two, I think,
[23:51]if I were to give myself advice that I would never have listened to
[23:54]because I never took advice when I was younger,
[23:57]it would have been to pay more attention to the market.
[23:59]You know, I've always sort of written whatever I wanted
[24:02]and felt like if I made it good enough that it would be okay.
[24:05]But I think in the truth is that,
[24:09]no, you should really need to see what's being published,
[24:13]where is it being published,
[24:14]what agents are representing different things
[24:17]and see how your work fits and think about those things.
[24:21]It's so funny because I interviewed somebody right before you
[24:24]who said the exact opposite.
[24:26]That's so funny.
[24:27]Like, don't pay attention to the market trends.
[24:29]Do what's right for you.
[24:31]So, yeah, free advice.
[24:32]Free advice, that's right, that's right.
[24:36]I still think it doesn't matter what the advice is.
[24:38]I just think it also usually shed some light on the author
[24:42]what they're recommending, not the advice for them.
[24:45]But it just, like, all of it just adds to what's going on
[24:49]in your head.
[24:50]So, which is clearly a lot of really interesting stuff.
[24:56]So, yeah.
[24:58]Anyway, well Sarah, thank you so much.
[25:01]Thank you for good neighbors.
[25:02]I feel like you should grab, have you read Theresa
[25:05]and Fowler's a good neighborhood?
[25:07]No, I haven't and I've seen it everywhere.
[25:10]Oh my gosh.
[25:11]Well, I feel like the two of your books should be sold together
[25:14]as like a house where I kept.
[25:17]It's both like bad things basically that happened to communities.
[25:21]But, you know, and maybe even there's this other book.
[25:24]Oh my gosh, I'm blanking on the name by Julie Valerie.
[25:27]Anyway, they're all like neighborhoodies things.
[25:29]And I feel like they should be packaged in a little box
[25:31]with like, I don't know, some sort of housewarming thing.
[25:34]Nice.
[25:34]Exactly, exactly.
[25:37]That would be hilarious.
[25:38]All right, well, if I know anybody who ever moves,
[25:40]that's what I'm gonna do.
[25:42]Oh, actually somebody wrote the art of happy moving.
[25:45]Now I have a whole thing.
[25:46]Ali Wensky wrote the art of happy moving.
[25:48]Now we have like a three book series.
[25:50]Okay, anyway, I'll stop, I'll stop, I'll stop.
[25:52]Okay, have a great day.
[25:54]Thank you so much for coming on.
[25:56]I really appreciate it.
[25:57]Thanks for this great book.
[25:58]Thank you for having me, my pleasure.
[26:00]All right, bye.
[26:02]Bye.
[26:02]Hi.
[26:03]Thanks for listening to this episode of Moms Don't Have Time
[26:06]to Read Books.
[26:07]Don't forget to follow me on Instagram,
[26:09]at ZB Owens and at Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books.
[26:12]Also sign up for my newsletter at ZB Owens.com
[26:15]and sign up for my virtual book club
[26:16]and meet lots of authors on Zoom every other week.
[26:19]Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan,
[26:20]in fact, texture sound for the sound editing.
[26:23]And thank you to Morning Moon Productions
[26:25]for providing this fantastic intro and outro music.