Georgina Lawton, RACELESS

2021-02-23 · 30:53 · Georgina Lawton · Podcast Audio

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[2:08]Georgina Latin is the author of a raceless in search of family identity and the truth about where

[2:13]I belong. Georgina is a quote 20 something journalist and speaker, a former guardian weekend columnist

[2:20]and is now a freelance contributor for the paper and writes for a number of other publications

[2:25]such as the independent stylist, galdam, travel and leisure, vice, time out, London and more.

[2:30]She is also a broadcaster and host of the audible podcast The Secrets in Us.

[2:36]Welcome, Georgina. Thank you so much for coming on moms. Don't have time to read books.

[2:40]Thank you for having me. Really excited to be here. I've listened to a few episodes already.

[2:43]Oh, yeah. I wanted to be here. Oh, that's so nice. I loved your book. Oh my gosh,

[2:48]raceless in search of family identity and the truth about where I belong. I felt like I could not

[2:55]put this down. I was like zooming through it and then I kind of wanted like, well, I won't even

[3:00]talk about the ending. But anyway, it was really great and I'm so glad you shared your experience

[3:04]in memoir form for everyone else. So could you just tell listeners a little more about what this

[3:10]book is really about? Yeah, so it's my story and it follows me reflecting on my life growing up

[3:18]with white family to white parents and always having questions as to why I didn't look like them,

[3:24]why I wasn't white as well because I didn't have any answers for that. And it was a really nice

[3:32]childhood. I had really fantastic parents, but race just wasn't addressed and they found it really

[3:38]hard to talk about my identity. So I always had questions from other people. You know, why are

[3:42]you black? Why are you parents? Why is your brother white? I've got brother with blue eyes and my

[3:46]mum is of Irish background, my dad's English. And it just wasn't getting answered. We sort of alluded

[3:52]to this story that I might be this genetic throwback, which is something that came from my mom's side

[3:57]because she's from the west coast of Ireland. And there was some some Spanish sort of migration,

[4:03]but there was this story about the Spanish Armada getting wrecked off the west coast of Ireland

[4:07]and darkening the Irish gene pool. And it's actually really a historical, not not not

[4:12]back, but it was something that we clung on to, I think, and it's something that I would repeat

[4:15]as a child because my parents are talking to repeat that. So it was a really happy childhood,

[4:21]but it was marred in a lot of confusion. And finally, when when I reached sort of, you know, 16,

[4:26]I was like, this can't go on. This doesn't make sense. And people were saying, you look

[4:29]by racial mixed race. And I was like, what does that mean? What is my mix? Like, how would this happen

[4:34]if my parents, my parents? So I write a little bit about growing up in the book. And then I go

[4:38]into sort of what happened when my dad got sick, which was when I was at university. And that

[4:43]was sort of the catalyst for finding out more. And for sort of going on this big journey, which I

[4:49]which I yeah, describing the book, I go off and live in different black communities and try and

[4:54]sort of unpack the secrets at the heart of my family and try and sort of learn a bit more about

[4:59]who I am, whilst also talking to other people who have had to unpack similar sorts of secrets

[5:04]around identity or parentage. Yeah, that's that's the book in a nutshell. I guess there's more

[5:09]than an end or there's quite a lot sort of online as well. So well, I have to say your opening

[5:14]scene alone was like, I don't know, like watching a movie or something. This is Spence. Can I

[5:21]just like summarize that you're opening scene guy? I feel like I'm not really giving it away

[5:24]because it's like right in the beginning, although I'm tempted to give away the ending. But I won't

[5:28]when you open it up, you see your mother in the hospital room and you describe both of your

[5:33]parents and their backgrounds. And then she gives birth and she looks down and her child looks

[5:38]nothing like her. In fact, her child looks like you and has dark brown hair and dark eyes and

[5:43]darker skin. And there's a moment in the book where she's just holding the baby. And it's like,

[5:49]what is my husband going to say about this? Because you point that paint them as being very

[5:55]in love and happy. And no one says anything. And the nurse actually intervenes and says,

[6:00]you know, oh, well, this is probably why. And then there's like the sigh of relief from your mom

[6:05]and then never gets brought up again. Right. This is like, I'm sure how you imagine that scene like

[6:11]insane. And so you grow up and then you say in the book, like, yeah, I was a child. You like

[6:17]put it all in italics. Like, I didn't question it because I was a child. And this is what children

[6:22]do. The parents tell you something. And that's what it, what it meant. Did your mother ever,

[6:27]and I don't want to like go into your conversations with her. But that actual scene is it sort of

[6:33]how you imagined it could have been or did she ever actually tell you about that moment?

[6:38]It is after I spoke to her at length, I had to go back and revisit my parents lives and unpick

[6:43]exactly how and why this secret could fester at the heart of this, you know, hidden truth because

[6:48]everybody could see that I wasn't white. But it was also a secret because it wasn't getting spoken

[6:53]about. So I had to go back and talk about this with my mom. And I wrote a lot about this in the

[6:57]book. But we actually went through lots of therapy after I came back from all my travels. We went

[7:01]through a lot of therapy. And I had to ask her, you know, what actually happened in the moment

[7:04]that I was born? Why didn't anybody ask you if you'd had this affair or why I look so different to

[7:11]you? And she said that my dad never questioned her. He never asked her to justify, you know,

[7:17]my parents and justify herself. And then that sort of codified the secret, like it codified the

[7:22]silence. And then everybody else took their cues from my family after that. But it really came from

[7:27]my parents not not addressing it in their own marriage. The second I was born, the nurse gave

[7:31]them this little kind of seed that then grew into the whole tree of our family. But it was not

[7:36]something that they addressed ever between themselves. It was just not spoken about. And then

[7:42]I was raised in a lot of love. But I was also brought into this silence. And that was

[7:47]confusing at times. So I had to go back and ask my mom, you know, why did it happen? But also

[7:52]understand her position as someone that was brought up in Ireland as a Catholic in the 60s,

[7:58]and who held so much shame and so much guilt with this secret and how that kind of manifested itself

[8:05]in our relationship. So I had to, yeah, I had to do a lot. We had to do a lot of work together.

[8:11]But at times it felt like it was all me because I was having to question everybody in it felt

[8:15]like I don't uncover this like family-wide conspiracy almost that everybody was playing a part

[8:20]nobody had ever brought up my race because they'd all taken their cues from my parents. But then

[8:24]when I got old enough, it just became this maddening sort of performance. I was like, why is

[8:28]no one talking about this? I'm getting racialized as black. Why can't my family just say that word

[8:33]in our house? And it wasn't even said like the word black was never attributed to me by anyone

[8:39]or my mom or my dad's family. It was just unspoken about. And then in the book you say how your mother

[8:44]was sort of like, well, it doesn't really matter. Like it doesn't matter or what race. Like we

[8:48]loved you. We love you so much. And that's it. You're our daughter. And you're like, well, this

[8:53]color blindness is not really helping me out. You're leaving out an enormous piece of my own identity.

[8:59]Tell me a little more about that part. Yeah, I think my mom's view at the start of

[9:04]discussing all these things was sort of, you know, very indicative of this wider kind of

[9:08]issue that I think whiteness has, which is if we address race at any way, shape or form, it's,

[9:13]you know, it's going to lead to something bad. So let's just not address it at all. But in our

[9:17]family, I had to tell her how insane that was because I've been growing up being racialized by other

[9:23]people for my whole life. And for my mom not to take that part of my identity into consideration,

[9:27]it was, it was will fully ignorant. And it was, it was coming between us because she wasn't

[9:32]able to fully understand me and where I'd come from my experience because she was trying to,

[9:37]you know, make me into something that I wasn't basically. So she found that really hard to

[9:42]understand when we went to therapy and we had a therapist who, who spelt that out for us. I felt

[9:47]like that. I was like, can I criticize my mom? And I was criticized my dad. And to have a therapist

[9:53]spell it all out was really, really enlightening. And it gave me a lot of permission to continue

[9:58]writing about these kinds of things and to continue.

[10:00]talking to other people because I needed those words to sort of legitimize the experience

[10:05]that this was a colour blind upbringing and it shouldn't have been because I am not a white

[10:10]child so it needed to be addressed. So yeah, I think not the people saying they don't see colour

[10:16]it's well-meaning but it's also incredibly harmful and I think my mum had to understand that

[10:22]but it took quite a while through author of possessions. Well, I mean I think it's like any big

[10:28]piece of who you are. I mean if there's any piece of who you are that gets ignored then it's not

[10:34]then you can't feel like completely sort of loved and appreciated right? Like if somebody doesn't

[10:40]address it like I don't know I mean I can't think of a good corollary but in other words no it's

[10:45]like a lot of people struggling with our identities and I've got lots of emails when I started writing

[10:48]about this online from you know people who'd grown up gay and they hadn't come out to their parents

[10:53]and other people who'd been misled about their parentage even without the racial aspect and it's like

[10:57]if you're not fully seen and you're not fully heard by the people that love you then it puts up

[11:02]a barrier between you and your loved ones and it means that you can't fully connect so I think it

[11:07]kept us more distant from each other than we needed to be because I had such great parents like my

[11:12]dad was so hands-on my mum was always there for me but with this issue they just couldn't

[11:17]bring themselves to discuss it which meant they couldn't fully connect with me in that in that way

[11:22]so again that was really painful like going back and explaining that to my mum because there's parts

[11:28]of my life that she'd missed out on and that she deliberately shut up herself off from

[11:33]because she couldn't address her own shame and her own guilt around why I looked the way that I

[11:38]did because that had come from you know her having an affair. And the the the word not the worst part

[11:45]one of the sad pieces of this puzzle is that your dad passed away before you had any of these

[11:51]conversations with him and it's so funny I don't even know why this is on my desk but I have

[11:55]Danny Shapiro's inheritance like right here and then I have your book and these are like both

[12:00]about the deep love of like a daughter for a father despite the secrets that were kept right

[12:08]and how much did the dads know and I mean it's such a like what do you do in the person who loves

[12:14]you the most was keeping something from you or did you not even feel like like it honestly seemed

[12:20]from the anecdotes you related in here and even like his conversation with his friends and

[12:25]that he never acknowledged it in his own mind he was just like we don't this is great

[12:30]like like a denial of sorts is that how you feel or do you think he like what do you think

[12:36]was going through his mind? I replay it so much and I go over it and over it and I still don't know

[12:43]and I don't think I'll ever know but I feel in my heart of heart like he knew that it couldn't

[12:49]that it wasn't a logical conclusion that I must be his but he hadn't even admitted that to himself

[12:55]therefore he just continued with his marriage and continued raising me and he

[13:00]shouted me into so much love like I can't describe to you how hounds on he was if I

[13:05]think I put it in the book but when I needed a pair of shoes after a night out he would drive to me

[13:09]when I said dad my heels are hurting he would drive me he would drive from our home to the club

[13:14]and drop me off another pair of shoes at like 2am or whatever because my feet were hurting

[13:18]and I was so spoiled by him and I never thought that we weren't related and therefore

[13:27]when I found all this out after he passed away it was like losing him again because I had to

[13:32]sort of you know I felt extremely grateful and extremely saddened because I hadn't been able

[13:37]to thank him for raising me despite the fact that he probably suspected we weren't alive and

[13:42]everybody kept saying that your dad you know it's not many men that would have stuck around

[13:46]when they could see that the baby wasn't there as there's not many men that would have stuck

[13:50]around and not questioned your mum and I had to stop and think of course yeah there wouldn't

[13:54]be many men that would do that but at the time I didn't think he was just my dad and I was just

[13:57]happy to be spoiled by him and he was happy to go you know above and beyond for me in every way

[14:02]he'd always stick up from him family arguments he always had my back and that was just how my dad

[14:08]wasn't my ticket for granted but if he was here there's not enough words that I can think of

[14:12]to thank him for you know sticking in a situation that a lot of people would have walked away from

[14:16]basically oh oh yeah so yeah it's so difficult to talk about even now because it was so much

[14:23]yeah it was just so much there was so much love from that relationship and it's hard to even

[14:29]sort of like yeah describe how much love there was and go over again because he's not here

[14:35]and we never got to talk about it sorry no I'm sorry oh sorry no I mean losing a parent

[14:44]and someone you love alone is a lot but having all of this layered on top it just like

[14:49]at such a level of confusion in your grief I'm sure and I'm sorry I'm sorry to have it even

[14:56]I'm a trigger no it's just but it's I was love talking about him and I love sort of you know

[15:01]illuminating these memories through the writing that I've produced but it's still so hard because

[15:06]I just there's so much that remains unanswered I guess and there's so much that I still go over in

[15:12]my own head like did he know did he have bother him how bothered was he if he did know so yeah it's just

[15:19]it's still difficult and he sounds like an amazing man and then you're caretaking of him at

[15:25]the end even when he was like you know you were like why aren't you mad and he's like you know

[15:30]this is my lot I'm not going to be mad like this is my lot in life and he seemed like okay and then

[15:35]you describe as you know watching someone so strong and who clearly was so doting on you and just

[15:44]such a you know a life force diminish I mean that is that is so hard too I mean you've been through

[15:51]it's a lot to go through yeah there's a lot of happened yeah in a short space of time after like

[15:57]you know a relatively normal upbringing with some some strange kind of racialized incidents in my

[16:02]childhood it was pretty sort of suburban and quiet I talk about growing up in a book and going

[16:07]to catholic school and it being pretty you know steady apart from the the question from strangers

[16:12]every kind of couple of months I don't you know family but then a lot happened in a short

[16:16]space of time when my dad got really ill and then you know yeah that was so hard as anyone knows

[16:20]who's gone through you know looking after a parent with cancer or watching somebody with

[16:27]her away through like a long term illness it's just completely devastating and you can't you can't

[16:33]escape it's there every day and they're living with it every day and then even my friends I

[16:37]talk about that in the book they had to support me a lot because I was falling apart watching my

[16:40]dad fall apart so it's like a knock on effect and yeah that was very very traumatic and it

[16:47]just didn't seem like the right time to to sort of delve into this family mystery I tried to a

[16:53]little bit and I talk about that and I asked my dad you know why didn't we look like each other

[16:57]and can I get DNA test and he said yes that's fine I couldn't bring myself to process it when he was

[17:03]when he was so sick because that was really the priority and he his priority was looking after us

[17:09]and making sure that the family was taken care of and that you know like any outstanding things

[17:14]were kind of signed off that was his priority he was really focused on making sure me and my

[17:17]mum and my brother would be fine once he was passed away so I just couldn't sort of unravel this

[17:23]23-year-old family mystery in the middle of all that it just didn't seem like the right time

[17:28]but then that's something I still grapple with like should I push for answers or should I have

[17:32]now you did you know you did what was right at that time don't look back now and that's what

[17:37]you had to do and you were I'm sure you were right like otherwise you would have done something

[17:42]did I mean like had it felt at all right you know for whatever reason also just because there's no

[17:49]biological paternity doesn't have any impact on his immense love for you and even if he had known

[17:57]it would not have it wouldn't have changed anything I mean his love like same for adoptive

[18:02]parents or you can love and love and love and it doesn't have to be somebody from your blood

[18:08]that's only one thing yeah so yeah and yeah it's it's a raise that strange question about

[18:14]nature versus nurture and I know that I wouldn't be you know half the person I was if I hadn't had

[18:19]his love surrounding me and I think we always we always underestimate how much love can do for

[18:26]a person and what people turn out like when they don't have that love in those early years like

[18:30]it just gives you so much like self-confidence and a sense of self and the ability to love other

[18:35]people and the ability to pursue something that you love like just having so much love in my life

[18:41]at the beginning but then having it taken away was just very very difficult so yeah it's something

[18:47]like I've tried to sort of portray in the book but he's always going to be my dad regardless of

[18:52]course it's just having to deal with the shock of that information and then process sort of a new

[18:58]identity because of that it was very bizarre yeah very difficult and it's funny that you have that

[19:04]book because I feel like there's a lot of people going through similar things right now because I

[19:07]get lots of emails about you know how the DNA testing world is democratizing things for a lot of

[19:13]people but also drawing skeletons out of closets that haven't haven't ever been taken out so

[19:19]it's it's a very interesting time see how the industry is impacting upon people's families and

[19:24]family secrets and how that kind of changes our perception of how we love one another or will it

[19:29]change our perception I don't know some people cut their family off and they find out these kind

[19:35]everybody deals with it differently I guess and I've definitely gone through my own process of

[19:38]being extremely angry and then being very reflective and then you know being very confused it's a

[19:43]whole process so it's a lot and it's something that at the time in whatever 19 whenever you were

[19:51]born like I'm sure your mother was just not even they could never have imagined and like so many

[19:56]other families like you just don't they just never they

[20:00]the option was not to discuss and how would they possibly have been able to imagine the science

[20:06]advancing to this point? So quickly, really. I mean, it's, it's really mind blowing. I, you know,

[20:13]now this is going to make me sound like a stalker or something. But after I read your book,

[20:16]I was like, I really want to see what her parents and her brother look like. Like, what do they look

[20:19]like? What is, because you alluded so much to these pictures and the visuals of the whole thing.

[20:24]And there were a lot of pictures you posted or not a lot, but a handful of your dad on

[20:29]Instagram or wherever. But I haven't found any of your mom. And then I was wondering why,

[20:34]why not? Like, did you, was that on purpose? And then I was wondering, what is your mom? I mean,

[20:38]she's still alive as far as I know. Yeah. Like, what does she make of this whole thing? Like,

[20:44]does she want to be a part of your story? Like, she seems super private. And yet here's this book.

[20:49]So tell me about that. Yeah, interesting question. And I think at the beginning, it was really

[20:56]hard for her to understand why I was putting our private lives in the public hemisphere and in

[21:02]such a such a huge way. I was writing online in the Guardian and I had little family column,

[21:08]which is how this book actually got created because I got contacted after the column did quite well

[21:13]and asked to write a book. And my mom and I were going to therapy whilst I was writing the column.

[21:18]And we would discuss my writing in the therapy session. That would be a whole session. She would

[21:23]say, I'm very annoyed this week. You know, Georgina's writing about our family and everybody can see

[21:29]it. And I'm not happy with how this is panning out. And we would discuss that in therapy in the

[21:33]therapist, you know, try and make her see this is my way of expressing myself. And I've got this

[21:37]creative outlet and I need to understand what's gone on over the years in order to process it

[21:42]and move forward. But my mom doesn't work like that. She doesn't have the same creative expression.

[21:49]Even in therapy, I would always talk and talk and talk. And she would be a lot more reserved

[21:54]and a lot more reluctant to speak. And sometimes there would be long silences where the

[21:59]therapist would have to, you know, prompt her and say, what do you think of this or how would you

[22:02]respond to this? And I think a lot of it came from her feeling really guilty. But a lot of it

[22:08]also came from just asking really different. I think like I really need to speak and talk and

[22:14]write in order to process the world around me. Whereas my mom, you know, she's raised on a farm

[22:19]island in the 1960s. She didn't have time for hugs. She didn't have time for reading and sort

[22:24]of those kind of pleasures. It was it was a hard life where she had to help out a lot. And then

[22:28]once you're old enough, you moved to Dublin or you moved to London to, you know, be a receptionist

[22:33]or to be a teacher if you were smart. And those were the options. That was it. Like there wasn't

[22:36]really a lot of time for play and telling your family that you loved them. It just wasn't like that.

[22:41]They're quite stoic as well. My Irish family. So she found it really hard. Even when I was writing

[22:47]in the Guardian, I felt I didn't do this consciously. But people would point out that I wrote so

[22:51]much more about my dad. And I left out a lot of bits about my mom. So in the book, I really tried

[22:56]to illuminate more of her personality because I look back at my writing in the Guardian. I think

[23:01]I was still quite angry. And I didn't want to write anything negative about my mom because I love

[23:05]her. But I ended up not writing as much at all about her. So I was writing on, you know, how my

[23:10]dad helped me with my hair growing up. And our relationship, I wrote a lot about that. I didn't write

[23:15]a lot about my mom because I didn't want to write anything that I would regret. But then I ended

[23:20]up not writing loads in that column. So in the book, I tried to, you know, shine a bit more of a light

[23:25]on my parents' marriage and what that was like because it was quite happy. I never really heard

[23:28]the arguing about much. And I tried to portray what it was like for us and how our relationship,

[23:35]I guess changed once. I started asking questions about race and identity because that definitely

[23:40]was something that I felt. So yeah, so I hope that answers your question.

[23:43]Yeah, no. And also the pictures. Did she not want her picture?

[23:48]Yeah. So at first, again, this was years ago now therapy. This was 2017-18. It was really quite

[23:54]tough. And I had to ask her permission to put her picture in any of the articles in the Guardian

[24:01]I wrote. But then over the years, she's become so much more open. And I remember we had a really

[24:05]good breakthrough session where the therapist said, you know, Georgina's going to be doing a podcast,

[24:10]she's going to be doing a book. Do you think you'll be able to talk to her and be interviewed

[24:13]for this? Would you be happy with her writing about it on an even bigger scale than an article in

[24:18]the paper? This will be a book. This will be, you know, a long term thing. And my mum was like,

[24:21]yes, I feel like we've come such a long way. And I really want you to understand more about

[24:26]yourself. And if you think that that will, if you think an interview with me will help you,

[24:30]I'm happy to speak. And I'm happy for you to continue talking about this for as long as you need.

[24:34]And I sort of remember turning to her being like, whoa. And the therapist was like,

[24:38]this is a big moment for you to collect as my mum's name. I think you should have a hug and

[24:42]we stood up and we had this big hug and we were crying. And it was just a really big moment for me

[24:47]because she never used to be that open to me communicating to others about our family.

[24:53]So that was lovely. And now with the UK version of the book, you know, there's a photo of my

[24:58]mom, my dad and me as baby on the front. Is there, okay, I have to go with that up. And yeah,

[25:03]yeah. So she's on the front cover now. And that was, I thought that would be a battle, but she

[25:07]was quite happy, quite happy with it now. She's come like a really long way. I wonder why they

[25:12]didn't do it here. Yeah, just with the different publishers, they've all got different ideas

[25:16]about what, what looks best. So the US were very keen to have no photos and have a typography front,

[25:20]but the UK really wanting to have a photo. So well, it's a very cool cover regardless. But yeah,

[25:25]I really have the US one. Wow. So where do you go from here? You have this book coming out,

[25:30]podcast on Audible, you have, you still do your column. What is going on? What happens next for you?

[25:38]Yeah, so it's a weird one because I'm now doing all these interviews about, about raceless. And

[25:44]I guess it's a story that I started talking about when I was traveling in 2016, 17. And it's

[25:50]followed me all the way up to 2021 because there were delays with the book exposed to

[25:53]come out in 2020, but Corona. And I'm going to carry on talking about it for a while, I guess,

[25:58]because that's the book circuit you need to keep talking, but it's really weird because it's

[26:01]sort of like emotional time travel. You go back and you really live memories that some of

[26:05]some of them are quite painful. And you want to keep talking about the book, but it also,

[26:09]I guess you want to try and work on the next thing. So I've got a travel guide coming out, which is

[26:14]for black women. And that comes out this year. And that's focused on all my travels. And then

[26:18]obviously raceless is coming out in February. And I'm now in the process of sort of writing articles

[26:24]about things in the book to kind of, yeah, your attention to that. So I don't have the column

[26:30]in the Guardian, but I'm doing another big piece about my family and how getting a dog during

[26:35]lockdown actually helped me and my mom kind of come back together a little bit.

[26:39]So yeah, just bits and bobs like that to try and sort of, yeah, move the story on and draw

[26:44]people back to it in ways that are new and interesting. Yeah. And the podcast as well, that came

[26:48]out in November. And that's got some interviews with my mom on it. And that was amazing. Like to get

[26:52]her to open up and have recording equipment. Then I never thought I would be able to do that,

[26:57]but she's come, she's come so far. And I guess it's brought us a lot closer. I just wish I could

[27:01]have my dad here as well to see how our relationship has changed and to see how, you know,

[27:06]this thing has come out of the closet that we're all so much more open because of it in a way.

[27:10]Do you believe that he knows now? Is that part of your belief system or not so much?

[27:17]I feel like he's always with us. And if he was here, he would, nothing would really change

[27:22]for him. I really believe that. Like I feel like he's definitely been with us in moments that have

[27:26]been super testing and super trying. And if he was here, he would be supportive. And I think he

[27:32]would have probably helped us through it in a way that is very him. He was always putting others

[27:38]before his own feelings. I feel like it wouldn't have really altered how he views my mom or how

[27:44]he views me. But you know, there were times when I definitely thought that might be the case.

[27:48]So it's, it's nice to sort of hear other people's opinions and reflect on how much of a

[27:53]great person he was. As a father, as a husband, just as a human being, he was, you know, stand out.

[27:59]Sounds like a really special guy. Yeah. Do you have any advice for aspiring authors?

[28:04]For aspiring authors? Gosh, I guess. Oh, no, don't do that. No one's asking that before.

[28:11]As aspiring authors, I guess writing your truth is super important and writing in a way that's

[28:18]authentic to you, but that can take a while to develop your own voice. So I would say try and work

[28:24]on your craft and read widely, but also remember that whatever you write and whatever comes from you

[28:30]is going to be individual and it's going to be unique. And nobody else can copy that. But it's

[28:35]sometimes can take a while before you feel like you've got your authentic voices, people call it.

[28:39]And all you can do is practice to get there. Like I remember some of the stuff I wrote for the

[28:43]proposal for raceless. It's not half as good as what I've written now. And that's just because I've

[28:46]been writing all the time, you know, nearly every day for years. And I'm really pleased with the

[28:51]final product. But when I look back at my my drafts and my proposal, it was not half as good because

[28:56]I was still working on my craft. So I just think read really widely and write

[29:02]as often as you can. And then you'll find your own kind of lane and your own voice.

[29:06]Well done. Thank you so much for this conversation, for this fantastic book that was interesting

[29:14]on just so many levels. And really was like a love story to your dad, essentially, on top of

[29:20]everything else. So anyway, thank you for sharing. And yeah, now I want to read your piece about

[29:25]getting a dog. I think that's how I'm in the garden soon. Yeah, it's about me and my dog Jasper,

[29:31]he's he's new is Greyhound. Well, I wish you the best of luck for your lunch and everything.

[29:37]And thank you for having me. Honestly, it's been amazing. And sorry, I've been like

[29:41]blubbing on camera. So you're not apologize. I'm used to it's fine.

[29:47]Cry all the time myself. So no worry. Yeah, healthy. Honestly, I said everybody had to cry at least

[29:53]once a week. It helps. Yeah, do we have to live it to once a week? All right. Well,

[30:00]No.

[30:01]Alright.

[30:02]Okay.

[30:03]Well, thank you, Georgina.

[30:04]Have a great day.

[30:05]Thank you.

[30:06]I can't wait to listen to this box.

[30:07]I can't.

[30:08]Bye.

[30:09]Bye.

[30:10]Bye.

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[30:26]Thanks for listening to this episode of Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books.

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[30:41]Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan at Textures Sound for the Sound Editing.

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