Cherie Jones, HOW THE ONE-ARMED SISTER SWEEPS HER HOUSE
[0:08]Hi, I'm Zibi Owens, and you're listening to the award-winning podcast Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books.
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[0:53]Hi, I don't know if you guys know this or not, but I have an anthology coming out called Moms Don't Have Time to A Quarantine Anthology.
[1:01]And it comes out on February 16th and has essays by 60 plus of the authors who have been on this podcast.
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[2:47]All proceeds of the book and the fundraiser are going to the Susan Felice Owens program for COVID-19
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[3:18]there. Today's episode has been sponsored by author Joe Piazza's new podcast under the influence.
[3:26]Under the influence is a deep dive into the mom internet, a place haunted by aspirational
[3:31]marketing where it feels like every other moms is social media influencer trying to sell you
[3:35]something all while posed in white kitchens that never seem to get messy with toddlers and cloth
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[3:45]And behind this airbrushed perfection is money. So much money, billions and billions of dollars,
[3:50]a multi-billion dollar industry we never talk about. Journalist and mom of two
[3:55]Joe Piazza brings a keen reporter's lens to examine how we got here. What it all means
[4:00]and how the commodification of motherhood is driving normal mothers to the brink. And through
[4:05]adults, she wonders if she should just join the ochre huge ranks of the moms to grammars,
[4:10]if she too can make thousands of dollars off beautiful photos of bath time,
[4:14]frolicking in fields of purple flowers, and posing her newborn next to a beautiful latte.
[4:19]And if this is the future of content, check it out. Joe Piazza's under the influence.
[4:25]Hi everybody. Today is day three of the February book blast. And it is literary fiction Wednesday.
[4:32]So I hope you enjoy all of these authors and interviews. Sometimes so many collect that I have
[4:38]to just blast out a bunch all at once. And that's what this week is all about. So if you missed
[4:42]memoir Monday or nonfiction Tuesday, you can go back and listen to those. And coming up is
[4:47]new novels Thursday and family theme memoirs Friday. So listen as much as you can.
[4:52]Born in Barbados, Sherry Jones is a brilliant Caribbean writer and lawyer and a mom of four.
[4:59]Her short stories have been published in pink, cadenza, eclectica, the feminist wire,
[5:03]and broadcast on BBC Radio 4. She won the Commonwealth Short Story Prize in 1999,
[5:09]and then studied creative writing at Sheffield Hallam in 2015, where she won both the Archie
[5:14]Markham award and the AM Health Prize. She was awarded a full fellowship from the Vermont
[5:19]Studio Center. In the tradition of Zadie Smith and Marlin James, Sherry's debut novel
[5:24]how the one-armed sister sweeps her house is set in Barbados and depicts four people each desperate
[5:29]to escape their legacy of violence in a so-called paradise. The novel has already been praised
[5:34]by publishers weekly and Kirk is reviews. I loved talking to Sherry about her book and her journey
[5:40]and what she calls slash, well what I shouldn't say she calls slash fiction. Her contributions
[5:45]to flash fiction and also the voices that she hears in her head. Welcome Sherry. Thanks so much
[5:50]for coming on moms. Don't have time to read books. Thank you, Zadie. It's a real pleasure to
[5:54]me here. Thanks for having me. It's my pleasure. Your audio sounds perfect. So Sherry, tell me
[6:03]about tell listeners first of all what your book is about and what inspired you to write it.
[6:08]It's so good and it feels like a book from almost like another era, like it should be in the
[6:14]canon that you read in school under like literature because it feels almost, it just feels like a
[6:20]classic book in a way. Anyway, talk about how the one-armed sister sweeps her house.
[6:26]Thank so much, Zadie. So how the one-armed sister sweeps her house is set on a beach in an island
[6:33]a lot like Barbados in the mid-1980s and it's about the protagonist my name is La La and she's
[6:42]a hairbrader. She essentially braids hair for tourists on the beach and it's about this one summer
[6:48]when her life just changes in unimaginable ways. So without giving out too much of the plot what
[6:57]actually happens, she has a baby. There's a murder on the beach and it's all about how those two
[7:03]things are connected. Yes. And by the way, this seems like every parents, every potential parents,
[7:10]nightmare situation of having a child. I mean, it starts with like not to be graphic, but it
[7:16]starts with like unexplained bleeding and then waiting in the ER forever and not getting the attention
[7:22]that she needs and her husband is not there for her at all and just have she has to like make her
[7:29]way home. I mean, it's the most unsupported woman going through pregnancy alone that I've
[7:35]like ever read about. Yes, and I hope that I mean that is reality for a lot of women and that was
[7:43]the story that came to me about La La. So I hope that people can understand and appreciate that
[7:49]and just go with her on her journey because I think she does grow a lot through the novel.
[7:55]So in terms of what inspired me to write it, I tend to be inspired by voices without, I mean,
[8:03]I don't know how that sounds, but essentially I will hear a character's voice in my head
[8:11]and they will start telling me parts of the story. And the process of writing is really about
[8:17]getting that down on paper. So the initial process is just trying to understand what I'm hearing
[8:23]and somehow translating that into text that I can work with. And then the editing and the story
[8:29]development is really about getting to the story behind the story. So in this case, I was on a
[8:36]bus home. I was living in the UK at the time and I was very tired after a long day at work. And I
[8:43]just started to hear the voice of this character in my head. And there were a lot of things that
[8:48]we had in common, but as the bus right continued, it just became clear to me that this was
[8:53]going to be one of the projects that I would work on next.
[8:57]Wait, Sherry, I thought I thought you actually sat next to this woman on the bus.
[9:02]I thought that she was bothering you. So you're saying that was actually just like an analogy.
[9:07]I literally thought you were on the bus on your way home and you sat next to a woman who insisted
[9:12]on telling you her story. No, this is a woman who sat in my head. Oh, my God. That was right.
[9:17]Wow. A whole time I'm thinking I wonder if she'll ever read the story and had it that
[9:23]they're passing across again. Okay. Yes. Yeah. It was actually and that happens to me a lot in
[9:29]terms of my short stories and other projects. It tends to come to me as a voice. I just hear
[9:34]parts of the story and then it goes from there. I was also inspired a lot by things that would
[9:40]have happened during the 1980s. I considered that decade when I kind of came into myself
[9:47]as I know me and there are lots of things that happened then that I was really, you know,
[9:52]inspired by that I wanted to include in the novel. So even the, the hair braiders on the beach
[10:00]Barbados. That's something that was very, very much a feature of beach life in the 1980s.
[10:06]And you hardly see those braiders anymore here. So that was one of the things that inspired me as
[10:13]well. Well, I have to say I grew up going to Jamaica all the time in the 80s. And that was also
[10:20]part of that life and culture. So I knew exactly what you were talking about. Of course, in the
[10:24]book, I would be, you know, in the house that every bit like you're supposed to hate the family,
[10:29]right? I wouldn't like somebody that Lalo would like not want to be dealing with at all. But anyway,
[10:35]that was me. I was like the kid in that house, but not really. Not nothing terrible happened to me
[10:40]there. But anyway, yes, they are braiding culture and all the amazing things that beach life had to
[10:47]offer back then. It was so perfectly encapsulated. It was really cool. And I was really happy to get the
[10:52]opportunity to go back into that that time and space. Yeah. So when's the last voice you heard,
[11:00]like what? Are you for any voices right now? Not right now to be known. Not at this moment,
[11:12]but really what happened with Lalo was, you know, I actually found this story quite difficult to
[11:19]write. It started off as a short story. So there was the initial process of writing it out. It
[11:23]didn't start to become a novel until I'd say about 2013, 2014 somewhere around there. But strangely
[11:33]enough about three years in, I just stopped hearing Lalo anymore. It was as if, you know, she,
[11:42]she basically told me everything that she needed to say. And they're on in. It really was about
[11:48]crafting the story, trying to get to all the other things that that she didn't say. You know,
[11:55]the thing, I like to say sometimes that the characters who talk a lot don't always tell the whole
[12:00]truth. So part of my job then is trying to find out what the rest of it is and then just crafting
[12:07]that into what the real story is. So that was that was what that was like. It's almost like
[12:12]you're the therapist of your characters, right? Because it's like someone coming into therapy and
[12:17]they tell you their story, but you have to figure out what they're not saying to get the whole
[12:22]truth. Exactly. It really is a lot like that. It really is a lot like that. Yes. So you're like the
[12:30]therapist for the invisible characters. It's pretty cool. Who knew? I'm glad you think it's cool.
[12:38]I mean, other words for it. So it's great to know that you, you know, you understand where I'm
[12:44]coming from. Oh, I think it's great. Look, I mean, writing fiction is an art. It comes from a
[12:51]place of the mind that nobody can totally explain. And the more people I talk to about it to try
[12:56]to unlock the mystery of how you write fiction, there's no clear answer. It just comes. It can be
[13:03]in a dream. It can come in a voice. It just somehow gets into your mind and then gets on the paper
[13:08]and it's like magic. So I don't think any explanation is weird. Yeah. So that is that is really
[13:16]what the process is like for me. And did any, I mean, there was a lot of painful emotion and
[13:22]situations that rose up in this book. I mean, this was parts of it were tough. I mean, it was
[13:27]emotional to read it. Did you have to pull at all from your own life? Like, did you have any of
[13:32]this trauma in your own experience at all? Or was this all from the voice in the bus?
[13:37]Yes. I wanted the things I would have mentioned earlier that Lala and I did have some things in
[13:43]common. So domestic violence or being a survivor of domestic violence is one of them. So I was able
[13:50]to draw certainly on some of the information about Lala's psychological, state, and process was
[13:58]perhaps a little easier for me to write because I would have identified with some of it.
[14:03]The actual experiences of violence are not lying, but that aside, there were a lot of similarities
[14:10]not just me, but just from observing and listening to other women that I know. So yes, that did inform
[14:18]the narrative. Yes, it did. I'm so sorry. How did you get out of that situation? You know, the thing
[14:24]about that situation. That's one of the things that people can try as hard as they can to help you
[14:33]but something internal has to happen first. For a lot of women, it has to do with the welfare of
[14:41]the children who are involved. So for many women, they won't leave or seek to change the circumstance,
[14:49]even if they're suffering quite a bit, but they will try to change it because of a child.
[14:55]And that's consistent with some of the trauma and the psychological impact that violence has.
[15:00]So yes, I think it's something internal that happens. I can't say that. I mean, it's helped by
[15:08]external circumstances is helped by a desire to do better or give better to your children. And
[15:16]certainly for me, that was a very big part of it. I think what's also important for people to
[15:22]realize is that, you know, it's often not a situation of just getting up one day and deciding,
[15:29]okay, this is a day to leave or this is going to be the end of it. And then that's the end of it.
[15:35]It's often a cycle of running and returning running and returning. And that makes it even harder
[15:42]for people who are external to the situation to understand. So I'd say it's something internal.
[15:48]Usually in my case, for sure, it was a desire to do better for my children and eventually
[15:54]myself. So that's what it was. Well, it's also another layer of difficulty, even if the children
[16:00]are the driving force to getting to a better place, you still share children with the person who's
[16:05]committing the offense and you can never really extricate yourself 100% when you share the most
[16:10]precious thing in both of your lives. So yeah. So that, yes, and that's a very difficult situation.
[16:17]Have you ever written about your experience like in your own voice, like not one of the
[16:24]character's voices? No, you're not interested. No, I think that's one of the things that made it
[16:28]especially hard to write this book because mentally there had to be that separation
[16:36]between whatever I might have gone through our experience and the story I was trying to tell.
[16:42]Even in terms of being able to try to explore and understand the lives of some of the other
[16:48]characters, like Eden, for example, or even tone, that required a very big step outside of myself.
[16:57]So, you know, having had those experiences made it easier to write in one sense and made it
[17:04]quite a bit harder in another. Well, I'm glad you could use your experience to inform this
[17:10]particular voice and share because being able to extricate as you mentioned, you know, close to
[17:18]impossible for so many people. And seeing this up close in fiction might be the way to get through
[17:23]into others and that might be the way the story sinks in, which is so important. I really do hope
[17:28]so somebody asked me recently, you know, who's your ideal reader? Who's who's reading the book?
[17:34]You know, who would you want to read the book? And I thought about it for a bit because I couldn't
[17:39]say that I had written this story with a specific person in mind or a type of person.
[17:45]But I think when I when I was asked the question, I thought, well, maybe there's somebody who's
[17:49]going through experiences like lalas. And, you know, I really hope that at least one person like
[17:55]that will pick it up and read it. It's amazing. Oh, yeah. But it's for everybody.
[17:59]I'm divorced. I'm remarried now, but I have four kids with my previous husband. And I wrote an essay,
[18:05]not a book recently, but in terms of like having someone in mind, there was this woman I met,
[18:10]shortly after I got divorced, who I was like, you know, on a beach vacation with my new
[18:16]boyfriend who became my husband. And we were like, all in love and happy back then, not that we're
[18:20]not, but you know, now we're like married. So anyway, it was like right in the beginning,
[18:24]and she was there with her kids and all like the draggled and her like loser husband was like
[18:31]not paying any attention to her. And she just looked at me and she goes, oh, what I wouldn't give
[18:36]to have that. And I was like, no, no, I just got this. Like, this is like a year ago, not exactly
[18:45]of course, you know. So whenever I write about that or I try at all, I think about that one woman
[18:50]and wonder, you know, I'm sure she didn't even remember that moment. But anyway, so, but of course,
[18:54]there's no ideal reader for anything. You just hope that like somebody, somebody's life improves
[19:00]and all we can, I don't know, I sort of feel like all you can do from the pain in the past
[19:04]is sort of help somebody in the present, right? Yeah, yeah, exactly. So I really do hope that
[19:11]somebody reads it and gets that type of value from it. So are you working in any new project?
[19:18]So you have more, do you have more books coming out soon? I certainly hope so. Currently,
[19:24]I'm working on a collection of flash fiction. It's so interesting because while I was doing
[19:31]my master's in the UK, I had a pretty bad case of writer's block and a classmate suggested that
[19:40]I try flash fiction just as a way to get out of it and to get back into the projects that I
[19:46]was assigned to do. And I started writing flash and just fell in love with it. My flash stories
[19:52]tend to be a lot more that's surreal. But I'm working on a collection right now. I'm also working
[19:58]on a new novel that.
[20:00]set on a coco plantation in Trinidad mid 19th century. So that is requiring a lot of research.
[20:08]I'm really enjoying it. But that's in very early stages. And I said, I am going to sound really
[20:14]stupid now. But what is slash fiction?
[20:18]Flash fiction. People call it, you know, by different names. I know you don't sound stupid at
[20:22]all. When it was first, when my friend first suggested it, I thought, what's that? What are you talking
[20:28]about? I think a lot of people maybe don't know a lot about it. But it's also called microfiction.
[20:36]And it's essentially a much smaller word space in which to write a full story. So a full story
[20:43]has to be developed in a smaller space. So it tends to be 300 words or less for a full story,
[20:51]one full story. But, you know, other people have different sort of word limits. But it's a very
[20:57]short story that I think that's good to this right. Wow, that's tough. A whole story in 300 words.
[21:03]All right. Actually, that's kind of what Instagram is all about, right? It's like a little
[21:07]buzz. Yeah, story author. I didn't even know it. Who knew it is. This is great. I'm going to put it
[21:16]in my bio. So yeah, so it's that's really what it is. And it's really challenging to try to develop
[21:24]and execute a full story within a smaller space. A lot of it is about distillation. It's about
[21:31]not only what you say, but what's not sad and so on. I really enjoy it. Wow, that's great.
[21:37]Do you have any advice to aspiring authors? My advice to aspiring authors would be one,
[21:44]read a lot, read as much as you can, read as widely as you can. And then I would essentially
[21:50]say just keep working and keep developing your craft. And if it's an aspiring author who wants to
[21:57]be published in the traditional way, then I would just say everybody's journey is different.
[22:05]And just accept and appreciate your journey as yours and just keep at it. If you're meant to
[22:13]be writing, you're going to write whatever the circumstances. So whether you're published or not
[22:20]published, whether people understand your voice and your perspective at any particular point in time
[22:26]is not going to stop you from writing. But the point is just to keep getting better and developing
[22:32]as you go a lot. That's what I'd say. Excellent. And to listen. And to listen for the voices that you
[22:38]might hear. Yes. And to listen for the voices of that's your process. I know that that's not the
[22:44]thing for everybody, but it certainly is for me. So there you go. All right. Well, thank you, Sherri,
[22:52]thanks for coming on mom's journey of time to read books. Thanks for your fantastic novel. I can't
[22:57]wait to read your flash fiction. And yeah, best of luck with everything. And thanks for
[23:02]dealing with all my interruptions here. That's fine. That's absolutely no problem. I understand.
[23:07]Totally. I have four kids of my own and I know how heck to get. So thank you. Thank you.
[23:13]All right. Okay. Take care. Bye bye.
[23:18]Today's podcast has been sponsored by Under the Influence, a new podcast by author Jo Piazza.
[23:25]And just a reminder again, please pre-order a copy of my book. Moms don't have time to
[23:30]a quarantine anthology and go to my website under the anthology tab for the fundraiser. And I hope
[23:37]you'll buy a ticket and join me for, and I should have mentioned, um, I'll proceed to COVID-19
[23:43]research. So please join me for the fundraiser. Thanks so much. Thanks for listening to this episode
[23:49]of Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books. Don't forget to follow me on Instagram at ZB Owens
[23:54]and at Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books. Also sign up for my newsletter at ZB Owens.com and sign
[23:59]up for my virtual book club and meet lots of authors on Zoom every other week. Thanks so much to
[24:03]Steve and Ryan at Texture Sound for the Sound Editing. And thank you to Morning Moon
[24:08]Productions for providing this fantastic intro and now trim music.