Rachel Ricketts, DO BETTER
[0:08]Hi, I'm Zibi Owens and you're listening to the award-winning podcast Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books.
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[0:53]Hi, I don't know if you guys know this or not, but I have an anthology coming out called Moms Don't Have Time to A Quarantine Anthology.
[1:01]And it comes out on February 16th and has essays by 60 plus of the authors who have been on this podcast.
[1:09]So first of all, please pre-order this book. I think you will love it. I'm so excited about all the authors who are represented.
[1:16]Just to give you a few, Chris Bajillion, Jewel Parker Rhodes, Ashley Prentice Norton, Gretchen Rubin, Rima Zaman, Eileen Zimmerman, and that is just from the first page of the multi-page table of contents.
[1:30]So please pick up this book. Moms Don't Have Time to A Quarantine Anthology.
[1:34]It's available anywhere you buy books, Amazon Bookshop.org, and your local independent bookstore.
[1:39]So please pick up a copy. And also, I want to invite you listeners to my fundraiser slash launch party.
[1:49]The Nighty Comes Out on February 16th, the Tuesday at 7 p.m.
[1:53]Bookhampton and the Children's Museum of the East End are co-hosting it for me.
[1:58]And 50 of the authors who wrote essays in this book, as well as many of the amazing authors who blurbed this book,
[2:06]who wrote little praise worthy quotes at the front, will be there. And you can be there too.
[2:12]So if you go to my website, zibbyowens.com and just click on Anthology and go to Book Tour.
[2:18]You will see a whole fundraiser section. And for $50, you can attend. You'll get a copy of the book.
[2:27]And you'll get to Schmooze on Zoom with all of these amazing authors. This is like going to be the literary
[2:34]happening of February. So please come. I would love to see you all in person on Zoom, I guess.
[2:40]But even see some of your faces. I know so many of you are really loyal listeners, and that makes me really happy.
[2:47]All proceeds of the book and the fundraiser are going to the Susan Felice Owens program for COVID-19
[2:54]vaccine research at Mount Sinai Health System. And it is named after my husband's mother
[3:01]who passed away from COVID over the summer, which many of you followed along on Instagram as I
[3:06]recounted that horrific experience. So all the proceeds are going there. The cost includes the price of
[3:12]a book. So thank you for supporting this effort. And for supporting my book, I can't wait to see you
[3:18]there. Today's episode has been sponsored by This Is Everything with Ali Levine, a podcast hosted
[3:25]by Hollywood mom, celebrity stylist, influencer, and Bravo reality star, Ali Levine. On her podcast,
[3:31]you'll get a mix of, well, everything from motherhood, to fashion, lifestyle, spiritual being,
[3:37]all totally real and raw. You have to listen. Ali interviews celebrities, experts, entrepreneurs,
[3:43]and so much more. Tune in weekly to be uplifted, empowered, inspired, and truly entertained.
[3:48]Hey, everybody. Yesterday started our February book blast. Sometimes I end up with just so many
[3:54]amazing episodes that I have to release a whole bunch at once. So today is day two of the February
[4:00]book blast. And today is nonfiction Tuesday. If you missed it yesterday was memoir Monday.
[4:05]And then we have literary fiction coming on Wednesday, new novels Thursday, and family theme
[4:09]memoirs on Friday. So stick with us for the whole week. Rachel Ricketts is the author of Do Better
[4:17]Spiritual Activism for Fighting and Healing from White Supremacy. Rachel Ricketts is a queer,
[4:23]multi-racial black woman as a global thought leader, racial justice educator, healer, speaker,
[4:28]and writer. She hosts intersectional racial justice workshops worldwide, including her renowned
[4:34]spiritual activism series. Rachel cultivates change by fusing her experiences as an attorney,
[4:40]trained anti-racism educator, and grief coach with her spiritual certifications and breathwork,
[4:46]yoga, mindfulness, and reiki. She has helped numerous global brands with her anti-racism efforts,
[4:52]including Google, WeWork, and Lulu Lemon. Rachel was named one of well and goods,
[4:56]2020 changemakers, and has been featured in international media such as The New York Times,
[5:01]cosmopolitan, Goop, and The Atlantic. She loves donuts, dancing, disruption, and all things
[5:07]metaphysical, ideally, all at once. Welcome, Rachel. Thank you so much for coming on mom's
[5:11]don't have time to read books. Thank you for having me. It's my pleasure. And by the way,
[5:16]I know listeners can't see this, but you have the coolest glasses pretty much ever.
[5:19]Thank you. Listeners head over to YouTube so you can check out Rachel's awesome glasses after this.
[5:26]Okay, your book Do Better. Can you please tell listeners what it's about? And then we're
[5:31]going to discuss some of the ins and outs. Yeah, for sure. It's about spiritual activism
[5:35]and ways in which we can all work towards dismantling white supremacy from the inside out.
[5:41]All right. There we go. So, Rachel, in your introduction, you basically say like, okay,
[5:49]white women, this book is for you. I want to change your mind. I don't want you to think of me as
[5:55]angry, but I feel so passionately about this that I am writing a whole book about it.
[6:01]Here you go. Did I summarize? Mostly. A little bit. So the discernment is really important.
[6:08]It's written to white women, but not for them. So it's for black, indigenous, and people of
[6:12]color, specifically black, black, indigenous, women and femmes, but addressed to white women
[6:16]because white women and my personal and professional experience have caused the most harm and
[6:20]have the most work to do. And I have no problem with people finding me angry. I am angry justifiably
[6:25]so we need to tap into our anger and be able to withstand the full spectrum of our human emotions.
[6:30]And that resonance, that acknowledgement is really, really crucial for a black,
[6:35]indigenous, and people of color who are constantly marginalized, others and ostracized,
[6:39]and our anger is used against us. And that's really important for white folks, specifically for
[6:44]white women, very specifically for white cis women who need to learn how to tap into their anger,
[6:48]so they stop taking it out on black, indigenous, and people of color. And in your own experience,
[6:52]and I know you included a lot in the book, why do you feel that white women, in particular,
[6:58]are sort of the worst perpetrators of this? Many reasons, but the most succinct and I think
[7:04]potent one is they have a lack of inability to really acknowledge and be with their identity as
[7:11]oppressed oppressors. So I believe all of us are oppressed oppressors in when we shape a form,
[7:16]but some are on a spectrum. But white women are obviously very much oppressed by patriarchy,
[7:22]and if they occupy other marginalized identities, then, you know, pet or patriarchy ableism,
[7:27]etc, etc. But they also oppress black indigenous and people of color by virtue of being white
[7:32]and perpetuated white supremacy. So that inability to acknowledge and be with that identity results
[7:40]in a lot of harm. There's also a really deep need to be good and right, or at least perceived as
[7:46]good and right. And all of that is very much tied up in patriarchy, which to me is all under the
[7:51]guise of white supremacy. It's all tied up in oppression. And so this need to be good and right,
[7:55]which, again, I believe most of us have, but it shows up in a very specific way for white women
[8:00]specifically, cis white women, but this deep need to be good and right automatically prevents you
[8:05]from being able to authentically engage in racial justice because you can't be good and right
[8:11]and be in this work. You're going to get it wrong and you're probably going to feel bad
[8:14]because you're going to have to acknowledge the harm that you've caused to yourself and others.
[8:17]So we are looking each other. I'm obviously a white woman. You are obviously not a white woman.
[8:23]We are having this dialogue together. You have a whole book. What for me and other white women
[8:31]who happen to be listening, who haven't read your whole book yet and hopefully they will,
[8:35]what's something that you want all of us to know like instantly aside from what you are just
[8:41]describing? Like what if there's something that somebody's only listening to two minutes of the
[8:46]podcast, but they need to know and you need to tell them what would it be? That racial justice is
[8:51]your work. It's not something that's happening out there. I mean, you and I are talking the day
[8:55]after white terrorists stormed the capital in the United States of America while police
[9:00]watched idly by and or opened gates or took selfies with them. And so there's a lot of that
[9:05]othering that continues like, oh, those people, it's not a those and them. All white people,
[9:10]every single white person on planet perpetuates and benefits from white supremacy and that will
[9:15]never change unless you're willing to acknowledge that, address that and do the inner work that's
[9:19]going to be required for that to actually change period. And everybody is the same in your like,
[9:25]how can there be any massive generalization about an entire group of people face like, what if I
[9:33]have done the work? Maybe you wouldn't know just by looking at me. The work never ends. So even
[9:39]that statement, I think is indicative of the fact that there's more work to be done. There's a
[9:43]constant need to be able to acknowledge the power and privilege that you have by virtue of the
[9:47]position that you hold racially gender identity wise, ability wise or otherwise. And that really
[9:54]requires being able to understand your position and the ways in which you cause other people aren't.
[9:58]Okay. In your book.
[10:00]And in your bio and everywhere else,
[10:02]you share a lot of personal experiences
[10:05]that have led you here to this book,
[10:09]to some of your beliefs,
[10:10]but also just like who you are in the world
[10:12]and like what's shaped you in the past
[10:14]and one of the shaping moments in your life
[10:17]was the loss of your mother.
[10:19]And I was hoping you could talk a little about that
[10:22]and how her decade-long battle with MS
[10:26]and how you coped with the loss has affected
[10:30]your day-to-day even now.
[10:31]And I'm so sorry, by the way, for your loss.
[10:33]Thank you.
[10:34]Yeah, it's very much informed the work that I do,
[10:37]not only her loss, but all of the experiences
[10:40]that we had leading up to her loss
[10:41]because there was, you know, a large spectrum
[10:44]of losses that occurred along the way.
[10:47]Because she was diagnosed with multiple sclerosis,
[10:48]I'm an only child, she was a single mother
[10:51]and we are both black women.
[10:53]So on top of all of the experiences that we endured
[10:55]that would be hard for anyone across the board,
[10:58]dealing with challenges with healthcare system,
[11:00]with social systems, et cetera, et cetera.
[11:02]And we're based in Canada.
[11:04]So also acknowledging the privilege that we hold
[11:06]as a result of having access to healthcare
[11:08]and social welfare systems that we wouldn't have had
[11:10]if we were in the United States
[11:11]and still identifying and acknowledging the challenges,
[11:15]additional challenges that we faced
[11:17]straight up discrimination oppression
[11:18]and harm that we endured as a result
[11:20]of having to do that as black women.
[11:22]So in supporting her and just being someone who lives
[11:28]as a queer and multiracial black woman identified person,
[11:32]that deep need for equity, for justice
[11:36]has always been very top of mind for me,
[11:38]which is why I went to law school
[11:39]and then very quickly realized that law has nothing
[11:41]to do with justice, which was an upsetting realization.
[11:44]And then when my mother actually passed
[11:46]when I supported her in ending her own life
[11:48]because she and I both felt she had no options left
[11:52]to live in a way that would be fully free from pain.
[11:55]When she was physically gone,
[11:56]I was left with not only the massive grief
[11:58]and loss of her physical absence,
[12:01]but all of the losses that we had endured along the way
[12:04]as a result of the oppression and discrimination
[12:07]that we faced.
[12:07]And so it was after she died that I really re-centered
[12:11]and regrouped and was left with such deep grief.
[12:14]And I just think we're very ill-equipped
[12:16]as a culture to deal with grief across the board.
[12:19]And I think we really began to realize that more
[12:21]in 2020, the many ways that grief manifests
[12:24]and the ways in which we're ill-equipped as a society
[12:26]and as individuals to cope with that.
[12:28]So I dove deep in degree work
[12:29]and then very, very promptly that led me back
[12:32]to racial justice work because the most grief I've ever
[12:35]endured in my life is as a result of being a black woman.
[12:39]And would you mind sharing some of the ways along the way
[12:42]you said with the small losses and the fronts
[12:45]that occurred along the way with your mother's illness?
[12:48]Would you mind sharing one or two things
[12:51]that keep you up at night or that you have the most
[12:54]feeling about still?
[12:57]The one piece that really, I guess, hurts the most
[13:00]is hard to pick one.
[13:01]There's so many, but we didn't even have support
[13:04]when we needed it in terms of allowing her
[13:06]to transition with dignity.
[13:08]That was a fight.
[13:09]That was, I always say that was the most important
[13:13]and relevant use of my law degree to date
[13:16]was literally having to fight the medical system
[13:19]to allow her to die with dignity,
[13:21]to allow her to have free rein over her own body.
[13:23]And that fight took up all of my time and energy
[13:27]instead of being able to just be with my mother in hospice
[13:30]and support her emotionally, spiritually, physically
[13:33]as she transitioned from this realm to the next.
[13:36]Instead, I mean, I was there every day day and day out
[13:38]trying my best to do that, but instead the priority was
[13:41]doing my best to support her A and having her needs met
[13:44]and her wishes met and ensuring that she was free from pain
[13:48]in executing that desire.
[13:50]So when I ultimately, we had to bring in a medical ethicist
[13:52]and like the whole thing.
[13:53]When we finally quote-unquote, one, her right
[13:56]to be fully supported and kept paying free,
[14:00]she had to starve herself to death.
[14:01]That was the only legal option for her.
[14:03]When we finally won that battle to allow her to be fully
[14:07]supported by the medical system in her decision to do that,
[14:11]it wasn't to win.
[14:12]Then I was left with, all right.
[14:14]And so now I've won this battle where my mom gets to die.
[14:17]And the fact that she even got to that place
[14:19]is a result of the oppressions and discrimination
[14:22]that we face.
[14:23]And she may never have needed to get to that place
[14:26]if we didn't live in such an ableist, capitalist, white
[14:29]supremacist society at all.
[14:30]So to really be with that is horrifying, truly.
[14:34]And part of why I do the work that I do because I don't want
[14:36]anyone else to have to endure what I did and what we did.
[14:38]And I know that part of your mission,
[14:40]you do so much to be giving back to other people now
[14:43]and you have all sorts of certificates and degrees
[14:45]and everything.
[14:46]And part of that is in helping people with grief,
[14:49]not only to not only in all the seminars that you lead on,
[14:53]on the racial coming to terms with white supremacy
[14:59]and doing the work that is required,
[15:00]but even just the grief work.
[15:02]I shouldn't say even just.
[15:03]I mean, grief work is so important.
[15:06]Like everyone else, I've had my own share of grief
[15:08]as who hasn't these days.
[15:11]But when you say that people are ill-equipped,
[15:15]which I completely agree with,
[15:16]tell me a little more about that
[15:18]and how you think we can as a culture or society
[15:23]or just as individual has become better equipped
[15:26]to deal with something that will affect everybody
[15:28]at some point or another.
[15:30]I mean, this is the crux of my book
[15:32]because I believe that the work has to happen
[15:34]on the like internal cellular individual level
[15:37]before we can actually make societal collective shifts
[15:40]that will reflect the changes that need to occur.
[15:44]This isn't work that happens from the neck up
[15:46]and we live in a society where that's a lot of the work
[15:48]that we're doing and that's the work
[15:50]that seems to be prioritized.
[15:52]But grief, to me, isn't really an emotion.
[15:54]It's an experience.
[15:55]And until we have a more full-sum understanding
[15:58]of our own emotional landscape,
[16:01]which requires us to do inner work,
[16:03]then we don't have the tolerance
[16:04]or even really ability to recognize like,
[16:07]oh, this is grief, you know?
[16:09]Like I would say most people on the planet
[16:11]in this moment are grieving.
[16:13]There's so much happening, whether in the United States
[16:15]or not, like a global health pandemic,
[16:17]everything is different.
[16:18]The amount of uncertainty, if you have children,
[16:20]the amount of uncertainty for your children
[16:22]and that you're probably witnessing in your children,
[16:24]like there is a lot that we are handling or not.
[16:29]That we're trying to handle and all of that is grief.
[16:33]And when we live in systems of depression,
[16:35]which we all live in, then that that word even often
[16:38]is seem to be hyperbole.
[16:39]Like, oh, it's not grief, like that's really dramatic.
[16:41]And so when we can't even really be
[16:43]with what it is we're experiencing,
[16:46]how can we ever start tending to be healing?
[16:48]That needs to happen.
[16:49]We can't even have an understanding like, I'm angry
[16:51]and that's okay that I'm angry.
[16:53]I don't need to be shamed or gaslet for my anger.
[16:56]I'm grieving.
[16:58]No one needs to die for me to be in grief.
[17:00]There didn't need to be a global pandemic for you to be in grief.
[17:03]In fact, things don't even have to be negative
[17:06]for you to be grieving.
[17:06]When you get married, when you become a parent,
[17:09]when you start a business or get a promotion,
[17:11]like these are major changes that occur in your life.
[17:13]And when major changes occur, grief can also come along
[17:16]for the ride because it's a huge shift.
[17:18]But we don't have, we don't allow space for that reality
[17:21]to acknowledge that.
[17:23]So the work is really an inner one.
[17:25]It's an internal landscape.
[17:26]It's shadow work, ego work.
[17:28]It's the hardest work you'll ever do
[17:29]because this is really challenging to really sit
[17:32]with the ways in which we have caused ourselves harm,
[17:36]the ways in which we've caused other people harm,
[17:38]and resting, resting and being with ourselves
[17:43]is incredibly challenging and a culture
[17:45]that is constantly telling us that we need to produce,
[17:48]that we need to do, do, do, do, do, and that our worth
[17:50]is completely enshrined in our output,
[17:54]not in just being who we are.
[17:55]So true.
[17:57]So in terms of doing better,
[18:00]what do you think you're doing better today
[18:03]than you were doing, say, last year at this time?
[18:07]Mm.
[18:08]Well, I'm trying, I'm really trying to learn to rest,
[18:12]especially as a black woman who is constantly expected
[18:15]to show up for everyone, to do the work for everybody,
[18:19]personally and professionally.
[18:21]Resting is a real act of resistance and a real
[18:23]revolutionary act and one that's honestly quite painful
[18:27]because it brings up so much trauma,
[18:29]it brings up so much about the ways in which I've been conditioned
[18:33]and have conditioned myself to to do
[18:36]and to prioritize everyone else and everything else
[18:39]in front of and instead of myself,
[18:42]which isn't sustainable.
[18:43]That has been a real challenge
[18:45]and I'm doing my best to do better at that.
[18:47]And I'm constantly always doing my best to do better
[18:51]at owning and acknowledging my privilege
[18:53]and the ways that I cause other people harm
[18:55]as a result of the privileges that I possess.
[18:58]For example, being light skin, living in Canada
[19:00]in this moment, being highly educated,
[19:02]in English speaking, cis and a heteropassing relationship,
[19:05]all of these privileges cause people harm.
[19:07]Especially when I'm not acknowledging them
[19:11]and addressing them, that's the work.
[19:13]The books called Do Better, I'm absolutely included
[19:15]in the need to do better all the time.
[19:17]Do you feel in a way consumed by this mission of yours?
[19:21]Not to say it's only your mission.
[19:23]But do you feel like it is like what you eat, drink, live,
[19:28]breathe?
[19:29]Like is this something that you wake up in the morning
[19:31]thinking about and go to bed at night thinking about
[19:33]and work on sort of all day?
[19:35]Like is this, you know, everybody has their like things
[19:38]that they feel incredibly passionate about?
[19:40]Is this something that sort of colors every moment
[19:44]of your day?
[19:44]And this is the lens through it.
[19:46]You see like how can I improve this?
[19:47]How can I help these people?
[19:49]How can I, do you know what I mean?
[19:51]Yeah.
[19:52]Yeah, it's more than a mission.
[19:55]It's my life's purpose.
[19:55]It's why I'm here.
[19:57]And it's not, it's not work.
[19:58]Like it is work.
[20:00]This is hard hardship to do, especially when you're doing it from the inside out, but it's also
[20:05]I lived experience. I am a queer multiracial black woman. I am up against systems of discrimination
[20:11]day in and day out. I am constantly met with harm. And for me, it's imperative that I'm doing
[20:19]the best that I can do to create more liberation for everyone. And right now specifically for
[20:26]black indigenous women and friends. What's the last thing that has happened either as a result
[20:32]of your involvement and passion or not that has made you feel just super happy and grateful for
[20:40]someone? I would say I wouldn't have survived 2020 without the support of other black women. And I mean
[20:48]that never sense of the word. It was a really challenging year and continues to be a really challenging
[20:54]time. And I'm so grateful for the black women and friends that I have in my life who can really
[21:02]show up and nurture and support me so that I can continue to hold space and support this work.
[21:07]Do you have any close relationships with any white women? Yeah, absolutely. I talk about it at
[21:14]length in the book. We all need to be able to have. It's very important that we are able to have
[21:18]relationships with everybody else. That's the purpose of this. When we are doing the work from
[21:22]the inside out, then we understand the ways in which we have caused harm and the ways in which we
[21:27]can help mitigate that harm and have deeper connections with ourselves and with others especially
[21:31]people that have been made most marginalized and people that we have oppressed. And for me the people
[21:37]that I have a lot of close white women and those are all women who are constantly doing their work,
[21:41]checking themselves in their power and privilege and able to acknowledge the ways in which they
[21:46]have caused harm, continue to have caused harm, make repair and mitigate that harm moving forward
[21:50]and spend their power and privilege as much as they possibly can to help create collective
[21:54]liberation for everyone. And tell me a little about the writing of this book. Like how long did
[21:58]this book take? Where and when were you when you wrote it? Did you have to outline it at first?
[22:03]Like just tell me a little more about the process of writing. I always say this book has been
[22:07]written from when I was in my mother's womb. So a lifetime, but the actual process of sitting down
[22:12]to write pen to paper was about six months. It really, which was a lot in the midst of a pandemic
[22:19]as well. It was really challenging. It was really challenging to write because I, you know,
[22:25]pulled out the most traumatic experiences of my life to put onto the paper as a means to
[22:31]illuminate the ways in which we cause each other harm and how we can do better. Right?
[22:35]Obviously not an easy thing to do. For me personally and also a lot of familial
[22:40]trauma and stories came to surface in the midst of me writing this. Really, really challenging.
[22:45]And then at the same time, I felt so connected to my ancestors. And I'm not saying anything new,
[22:52]no black activist or any anti-oppressive activist really is saying anything new. A lot of this has
[22:58]been said time and time again, specifically black folks. We've been saying the same thing for hundreds
[23:03]and hundreds of years. So my ancestors had a lot to say. And I'm honored that I was a vessel
[23:09]that bought to be the conduit for this to come out. I wrote chunks of this actually all over the
[23:14]world. So chunks of it were written in Sweden where I was living for a chunk of time,
[23:17]parts of it were written in like France and Morocco and Indonesia. Back when we could travel.
[23:23]And the bulk of it was actually written in Toronto, Canada, which is not where I'm from,
[23:27]but it is actually where my mother's side of my family moved to from Jamaica in the in the 50s.
[23:35]So I really reconnected with a lot of that energy. I really felt that side of my natural
[23:41]side of my family as as I wrote. It was my first time ever living in Toronto and being there to
[23:46]write this book. I think wasn't a coincidence. And I think it was it was important to tap into that
[23:52]energy as I as I wrote. Have you ever thought about a career in politics?
[23:57]I do. When I was in law school, I was like, I'm going to be a politician. That's that's got
[24:01]I had the shit used to change. And that's how I'm going to do it. And then I probably was like,
[24:04]that whole system is not one that I could endure at all. I would rather be on the outside trying
[24:10]to support create a more equitable system over archingly than engage in that one.
[24:14]It's such a shame because I feel like all the brightest people don't want to go into government.
[24:19]Do you know what I mean? Like the people who should be doing what they can to change the world
[24:24]from inside are so up against an intractable system that yeah, it seems pointless to even try,
[24:31]which is like the saddest part of the whole thing. Right? It's just like it doesn't feel pointless
[24:36]to try to me. I just think there's many different ways to try. And I think we're slowly
[24:38]living in to see the ways in which we can shift the system and very much seeing the ways in
[24:43]which that system absolutely must change. So I think my depot is that the system looks completely
[24:49]different too. Well said. Okay. Do you have any advice for aspiring authors?
[24:55]I would say the best of your ability to be clear on who you are and what your voice is before
[25:01]you ever try to fall down the path of actually publishing because you're going to be met with
[25:06]a lot of resistance in a lot of ways, especially if you occupy my marginalized identity. If I
[25:11]had tried to write this book 10 years ago, yeah, I don't I don't know what kind of book it would
[25:16]have been. Not because I I mean, I'm very different, but also I wasn't as embodied in who I am
[25:22]and what I need to say and how it needs to be said. I've had to fight a lot along the way. And
[25:27]I think that's a really common experience for authors. So you need to be very, very sure
[25:31]who you are and what you need to say. If you could have like a sneak peek and I don't know why
[25:36]I'm asking all these like what if questions. Thank you for indulging my little
[25:41]interview experience here. If you were going to pick up a book in the library and it turns out
[25:46]it was the book that you wrote 10 years from now, like what would what would be in that book? What
[25:50]would be happening? I've stumped you. You've stopped me because even in now, I'm like, I wonder what
[25:58]my next books are going to be like because things change so quickly, like even it was really hard
[26:04]to write this book because I was like, this book could be outdated by the time I'm like, I am
[26:08]shifting and changing the collective is shifting and changing very, very quickly. Not quick enough,
[26:12]unfortunately, but again, when we are dialed into actually doing this work from the inside out,
[26:16]the transformations are huge and they are quick. So I'm really curious about what I'll be writing
[26:23]about and talking about and sharing about 10 years from now. I think it will look very different
[26:27]because the world will also look so completely different. So I feel like I can't it's not
[26:32]something I can fathom and I say that in a really positive way because my hope and I talk about
[26:37]this in this book, my hope is that we all can vision a world that looks completely different from
[26:43]the world that currently exists and that's really, really hard to do. That really does require us
[26:47]doing our own internal work and really trying to step outside of the systems as they currently
[26:51]exist as best as we can because we're all inside of them, myself included. So what does it look
[26:56]like to really be rested, be well, be nourished, be taken care of, be taking care of each other,
[27:02]be an equitable communion with other people, especially people who have less power and privilege
[27:06]than us. When we can start to really do that on a larger collective space, then I think what we can
[27:11]imagine and envision for the world is boundless and so phenomenal. I can't begin to fathom what
[27:17]that actually looks like right now. I just want to say one thing to your fear that this book
[27:22]could be outdated at a certain time. Some of the things you share in the book are so timeless
[27:28]that it could never be outdated. The personal emotion and feelings of loss and just the raw
[27:37]feeling are something that connects people and so universal and so timeless, the sense of grief and
[27:46]loss and all of it is just this is not a book that will be soon, you know, not a timely matter
[27:53]that the stuff you shared is timeless. That's all I'm trying to say. Thank you. Thank you. And
[27:58]that was really important for me not on the timeless piece, but on, you know, I don't want to write
[28:02]how to and some people like laugh when I say that now because we're like Rachel, this could very well
[28:08]be perceived as a how to. I wanted to share my perspective and experience one, two white folks because
[28:16]I think it's an honor and privilege to be able to really read that and have an under a deeper
[28:20]understanding of the impact of oppression and white supremacy and two for Black Indigenous and
[28:27]people of color, specifically Black Indigenous women and friends, queer and trans Black Indigenous
[28:32]women and friends to see themselves to see themselves and have an understanding of like, oh,
[28:38]I'm not alone. There's nothing wrong with me. I'm not broken because that's how we're conditioned
[28:43]to those are the kinds of thoughts we're conditioned to have and certainly the way in which
[28:48]I was conditioned to think that lack of connection, that lack of belonging, that constantly being
[28:52]other than ostracized made to feel like something was inherently wrong with me. That is why I wrote
[28:57]this book because I don't want anyone else to have to feel that way truly anyone else, but
[29:02]obviously especially people who have been made most marginalized. Well, I'm sorry that that was your
[29:06]experience. And I'm sorry for everything you went through with your mother. And I'm sorry for the
[29:11]ways in which you have felt that the world has failed you and my heart kind of breaks on that
[29:17]for you on that behalf. So I'm sorry that that's happened. And I'm not alone. So I'm not trying
[29:23]to say you are alone. No, I know. I know. I know you're not. And the world has not been fair to many
[29:28]many people in many different ways. And I was just trying to express that I'm sorry that's happened
[29:32]to you. Thank you. I appreciate it from me to you. That's all. Thank you. All right. Well, thank you for
[29:38]coming on this podcast. Sorry for my bizarre line of questioning today. And thanks for encouraging
[29:44]me to do better. Thank you so much for having me today. It was a pleasure. You too. Bye. Bye.
[29:50]Today's episode has been sponsored by This Is Everything, The Podcast by Ali Levine.
[29:55]And just a reminder again, please pre-order a copy of my book, Moms Don't
[30:00]I have time to a quarantine anthology,
[30:02]and go to my website under the anthology tab
[30:06]for the fundraiser.
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[30:10]for, and I should have mentioned,
[30:12]I'll proceed to go to COVID-19 research.
[30:14]So please join me for the fundraiser.
[30:17]Thanks so much.
[30:18]Thanks for listening to this episode of Moms Don't Have Time
[30:20]to Read Books.
[30:21]Don't forget to follow me on Instagram,
[30:24]at Zebie Owens and at Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books.
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[30:33]Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan at Textures Sound
[30:36]for the Sound Editing.
[30:37]And thank you to Morning Moon Productions
[30:39]for providing this fantastic intro and now trim music.