Helen Fisher, FAYE, FARAWAY
[0:08]Hi, I'm Zibi Owens and you're listening to the award-winning podcast Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books.
[0:13]Please sign up for my newsletter at zibiowens.com for weekly updates about my podcasts, events, and more.
[0:20]Also, follow me on Instagram at zibiowens and also at Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books.
[0:26]And finally, join my virtual book club called Zibi's virtual book club, which meets every other Tuesday at 2 p.m.
[0:32]Eastern Time until 3 p.m. and features half an hour of book club discussion, followed by 30 minutes of Q&A with the author whose book we've just discussed.
[0:41]You can sign up on my website zibiowens.com under the virtual book club section or even on Instagram, under the link in my bio.
[0:49]I hope you'll find me in all these different channels and enjoy this podcast.
[0:53]Hi, I don't know if you guys know this or not, but I have an anthology coming out called Moms Don't Have Time to A Quarantine Anthology.
[1:01]And it comes out on February 16th and has essays by 60 plus of the authors who have been on this podcast.
[1:09]So first of all, please pre-order this book.
[1:11]I think you will love it.
[1:13]I'm so excited about all the authors who are represented just to give you a few.
[1:18]Chris Bejalian, Jewel Parker Rhodes, Ashley Prentice Norton, Gretchen Rubin, Rima Zaman, Eileen Zimmerman,
[1:26]and that is just from the first page of the multi-page table of contents.
[1:30]So please pick up this book.
[1:31]Moms Don't Have Time to A Quarantine Anthology.
[1:34]It's available anywhere you buy books, Amazon, bookshop.org, and your local independent bookstore.
[1:39]So please pick up a copy.
[1:41]And also, I want to invite you listeners to my fundraiser slash launch party.
[1:49]The night it comes out on February 16th, the Tuesday at 7 p.m.,
[1:53]bookhampton, and the Children's Museum of the East End are co-hosting it for me.
[1:58]And 50 of the authors who wrote essays in this book, as well as many of the amazing authors who blurbed this book,
[2:06]who wrote little praise worthy quotes at the front, will be there.
[2:10]And you can be there too.
[2:12]So if you go to my website zibbyowens.com and just click on Anthology and go to book tour,
[2:18]you will see a whole fundraiser section.
[2:21]And for $50, you can attend.
[2:25]You'll get a copy of the book.
[2:27]And you'll get to Schmooze on Zoom with all of these amazing authors.
[2:32]This is like going to be the literary happening of February.
[2:35]So please come.
[2:37]I would love to see you all in person on Zoom, I guess.
[2:40]But even see some of your faces.
[2:43]I know so many of you are really loyal listeners, and that makes me really happy.
[2:47]All proceeds of the book and the fundraiser are going to the Susan Felice Owens program
[2:53]for COVID-19 vaccine research at Mount Sinai Health System.
[2:58]And it is named after my husband's mother who passed away from COVID over the summer,
[3:03]which many of you followed along on Instagram as I recanted that horrific experience.
[3:08]So all the proceeds are going there.
[3:11]The cost includes the price of a buck.
[3:13]So thank you for supporting this effort.
[3:16]And for supporting my book, I can't wait to see you there.
[3:19]Today's episode is brought to you by Page and Pairing.
[3:22]Page and Pairing is the weekly email that brings you book, wine, and recipe recommendations
[3:27]plus exclusive perks like author interviews and essays, music playlists, and writing tips.
[3:33]Sign up for free at page and pairing.com.
[3:36]And if you're tired of wondering what to read, drink, and cook,
[3:38]Page and Pairing does it all for you, dropping all three into your inbox.
[3:43]Books are definitely better when paired with great wine and delicious food.
[3:47]So Page and Pairing is the weekly email that brings you all three curated for your pleasure.
[3:51]And drop in your inbox again, sign up for free at page and pairing.com.
[3:56]Helen Fisher spent her early life in America, but grew up mainly in Suffolk, England.
[4:00]She studied psychology at Westminster University and ergonomics at University College London.
[4:05]She also worked as a senior evaluator and research at the Royal National Institute of Blind People.
[4:10]Helen's debut novel, Say Far Away, is perfect for fans of the time traveler's wife.
[4:15]The novel examines loss, faith, and love as it follows a grown woman who travels back in time
[4:20]to reunite with the mother she lost when she was a child.
[4:23]Her novel was called Space Hours in the UK, and we discussed why it had to have different names in both places.
[4:29]And it was one of the UK's most extraordinary debuts of 2021.
[4:33]I hope you enjoy our really amazing, awesome conversation.
[4:37]Welcome, Helen. Thank you so much for coming on Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books.
[4:41]Pleasure. Thank you for having me.
[4:42]Of course.
[4:43]So your book in the US is called Fay Far Away, but it is not called that in the UK.
[4:47]And tell me about that and your frustration, perhaps, with the toys and what we call the beer versus where you are.
[4:55]Well, it's never anything I thought about.
[4:57]So this is the proof in the UK.
[5:00]So it's Space Hopper, as you know.
[5:02]And when I was writing it, just to my first novel has been published.
[5:06]I didn't have an agent or anything.
[5:07]I was writing it because I wanted to write something.
[5:10]And I just called it the Space Hopper.
[5:12]It was a little bit of a watch I call it anything.
[5:15]And I picked that.
[5:17]If I knew then what problems it causes when you get your heart set on a title,
[5:20]I probably would have just called it book and just left it.
[5:25]And then so it's called the Space Hopper.
[5:27]And then my agent said, let's perhaps change it to Space Hopper.
[5:30]But when it was picked up by a publisher and then the US were interested.
[5:34]Oh, and first of all, the UK side did want to change it.
[5:38]So we went through all sorts of different ideas.
[5:42]And one of the reasons it needed to be changed was because I don't think Americans know what Space Hopper is.
[5:48]Did they know what Space Hopper?
[5:50]No, and I didn't really know that.
[5:51]And I am half American, but I was very young when I moved here.
[5:55]So I didn't realize, and I was googling it thinking,
[5:57]more we'll just call it the American version of the Space Hopper.
[6:00]But that was Hopperty Hopper.
[6:01]No, we can't call it the property hopper.
[6:03]Yeah.
[6:04]Yeah, that's what the thing is.
[6:05]Yeah.
[6:06]Yeah.
[6:07]But in England, space hoppers are iconic.
[6:10]They represent the 70s practically 70s childhood.
[6:13]But I don't think in America that Hopperty Hopper has the same relevance for Americans.
[6:18]I remember having one of the 70s, but not everybody maybe.
[6:23]I don't know.
[6:24]Yeah.
[6:25]So we just thought, well, we won't go with that.
[6:27]We'll change it so that we've got a title that works in across the pond both ways.
[6:32]So do the flip chart was full of names, different ideas.
[6:38]They were flooding in, the different names, the different options.
[6:41]And some of them were like, some of them were like, yeah, it's OK.
[6:45]And some of them were just starting to be a bit brutal with each other.
[6:48]Don't like it, you know, but in the end, we came up with something.
[6:53]I think it was 20 questions for genie green.
[6:57]And we kind of settled on it, all sorts of settled on it.
[7:02]And then I had a meeting in London with my editor and another colleague in from Prime
[7:08]Manchester over there.
[7:09]And every time the book was mentioned, they said space hopper.
[7:14]And I was going 20 questions for genie green.
[7:16]And there we go, space hopper.
[7:18]And I said, why did you keep calling it space hopper?
[7:20]You know, we've had our tears and we've put it to bed and we're changing it.
[7:24]And I said, the thing is, everyone in the office keeps calling a space hopper.
[7:28]And it's sort of stuck.
[7:30]So what they then sort of decided that we would have its space hopper over here
[7:36]and just something else in the USA.
[7:38]I think the preference is to have it the same name everywhere.
[7:43]But I think on this occasion, they just decided that it was a really strong,
[7:47]iconic sort of word and image to have in the UK, strong enough to sort of keep it.
[7:55]And then far away, which it's called in America has got a very different field to it,
[8:00]I think.
[8:01]But the cover that's going to come out does actually have a space hopper on the front.
[8:05]There's a, have you seen it?
[8:06]There's a girl and she's sort of a bit blurred.
[8:09]So I love that little nod to the space hopper.
[8:12]I love it.
[8:13]And there you go.
[8:14]That's the story behind the name of that.
[8:16]Well, no, I found it so interesting because how you market a book.
[8:19]I mean, they're, they say not to judge a book by its cover, of course,
[8:21]but your covers and names both make it feel very different in both places.
[8:26]So I just, I'm glad you told me about the backstory and all of that.
[8:30]Either way, it's great.
[8:31]I feel like space hopper is sort of a double entendre, but it's fine.
[8:34]It's paper wasted.
[8:36]Paper away is still like intriguing, you know?
[8:39]Yeah.
[8:39]I know you mean, I have to say whilst they both give me a very different feeling as well,
[8:43]I love them both.
[8:44]I love both the covers and I love, I love both the names.
[8:48]And the, the far away is a reference to the far away tree.
[8:52]Do you know the far away tree by any blame?
[8:54]So again, an English writer, quite sort of iconic here.
[8:58]She wrote about me in books.
[8:59]Okay.
[9:00]Well, now that we've established the different tones and titles and everything,
[9:05]let's talk about what's in the book and the content of it, which by the way,
[9:09]I cannot stop thinking about.
[9:11]I did not really any of that coming.
[9:13]I keep like spinning around in my head and going back to the beginning to see how
[9:19]it all works and it's thought provoking and amazing.
[9:23]It was just so cool.
[9:24]I love how you did the whole thing.
[9:26]And I read somewhere that that wasn't even your plan at the beginning.
[9:29]Is that true?
[9:29]I didn't know how it was going to end at the beginning.
[9:32]No.
[9:32]And I don't know I'd be able to write a novel like that now because I like to know,
[9:37]I like to know the destination at least and then sort of finds my way there.
[9:40]I didn't know.
[9:41]And what happened?
[9:43]I was at a friend's house and she was there with her teenage daughter.
[9:47]And she said, oh, tell us about your novel.
[9:50]And I said, well, it's about this.
[9:51]And then the teenage girl, she was going there, Megan.
[9:55]She was going, so what then, then what happens?
[9:57]And I started talking to my next bit and I didn't want to.
[10:00]all of them. So I didn't like carry on and she went, no, no, no. And then what happens?
[10:04]So I told them the whole thing up to where I had written it. And I was about two
[10:11]thirds of the way through, maybe three quarters of the way through, maybe not quite as far
[10:15]as that. And I was just chatting to them. And I just thought, I just thought, I don't
[10:20]know, I don't want to give anything away. So I, it was a bit like I'd love to do maybe this
[10:26]and I'm driving home because that's where I, that's where my characters suddenly come to life
[10:31]and they start doing things. And I'm in the car on my own and driving back home that day,
[10:36]I thought, oh my god, I think, I think I could do that. And I sort of, I didn't put my foot down,
[10:41]I didn't speak or I don't do that. But I certainly sped up with my writing. I just couldn't stop
[10:48]there and I was really worried that I'd get hit by a bus before I got the ending down. So yeah,
[10:54]I was really happy with the ending. I felt that it worked. And oddly enough, it's almost like
[11:00]it was lurking because when I went back, the things that make it work was sort of there anyway,
[11:08]a lot of them were there anyway. So I was quite pleased. Maybe it was, they do things on their own,
[11:13]the characters in there. They know what's happening before you do, I think, sometimes.
[11:18]Wow. Well, that's a thank you for liking that and because I'm quite proud of that ending.
[11:24]It's great because I feel like it's hard sometimes to keep people's attention, right? I feel like
[11:29]I hear this all the time from busy people asking me like, how do you get to the end and then
[11:33]it end? You know, it's great when there's a plot that I didn't know there was going to be anything
[11:39]special at the end. It just like made me want to keep reading anyway. So anyway, it was really
[11:43]enjoyable. And also even from the very beginning, you just want to read your opening sentence and maybe
[11:46]a couple other passages. But you said, the loss of my mother is like a missing tooth,
[11:51]an absence I can feel at all times. But when I can hide as long as I keep my mouth shut,
[11:56]and so I rarely talk about her so sad. And I just wanted to know, did you, I'm sorry to even ask,
[12:00]this is probably none of my business, but did you lose your own mother? Is that where this plot is
[12:04]coming from? No, she's around. No, my mom's still alive. She's 80. And no, the physical losses
[12:12]of parents are none of mine. But I do have friends who lost their parents when they were kids.
[12:18]That's where the nugget of the idea kind of came from. But the feeling of loss when you write
[12:24]about loss, which I had never done before. And in fact, when I was writing this, I had the idea
[12:29]for the story. And I didn't really latch on to the fact that it was about grief and loss really
[12:35]until afterwards. Because I just want to get the story down the plot. And sometimes the grief got
[12:42]in the way a little bit. And when I wrote the first draft, I was a bit like, oh, and then she cried,
[12:48]and then move on, they'll get it. And I sort of did that. And I left the grief out a little bit.
[12:52]And when I went back and I had to work on it, sometimes that's what I had to work on. Because
[12:58]when the grief and the emotion needed to be there, it actually dropped out of the paper.
[13:04]When I first wrote Space Top, but I didn't have an agent, but I scraped all my money together.
[13:09]And I sent the manuscript off to an editor. And when she came back, she was really positive. But
[13:14]she said that. She said the thing you need to work on is when the emotion is supposed to be higher,
[13:22]it just drops off the page. And I start telling and not showing. And it's almost as though I've gone,
[13:29]oh, I can't deal with the grief. So I sort of had to face that head-on. So I dealt with loss
[13:35]from a personal perspective. Because I didn't ask my friends how they felt about it. I didn't
[13:40]sort of delve into their personal feelings of what it was like to feel lost. I have done that with
[13:46]the new novel that I've just finished. I have really sort of looked at grief based on. But I avoided
[13:52]it in space. I didn't fade far away and spacehopper at first. That it's not my loss, my parents
[13:58]are both alive. And now I have to ask about your next novel. Now that I have the visual of how
[14:03]many words you've gotten done and all that facing grief head-on. So what is the plot of your next one
[14:08]if you can share it? I don't know how much I can share actually. But this was a two-book deal. So
[14:13]this is sort of still under contract with Simon Shista. And it is, well, and I will tell you the
[14:20]stage I'm at because it may end up being changed. So the stage I'm at is I've finished
[14:26]and I've sent it to beta readers. I only sent it a week ago to them and they'll all come back,
[14:31]they've all finished it. So yeah, it's really pleased. And it's been really positive feedback.
[14:37]So it doesn't really mean anything ultimately because, of course,
[14:41]age and editors have to like it. But I've had really positive feedback. So the central character
[14:47]is a young woman who loses her leg in an accident. She's very talented sculptor. She lives in
[14:56]Cambridge and she's got good friends. She's very cool. She's gay. She's a boy lesbian. And she's
[15:05]just a great character. And she's very funny and cool, but she lost her parents when she was young.
[15:10]So there was a lot of grief to deal with because there was not only the leg, but there was
[15:16]the the wave that grief. Now that's how I know actually, I want to talk to you a little bit
[15:21]about this because one of the podcasts I watched when I was trying to see what you were like.
[15:28]Sit, hope, Adeline. Yes. And she wrote something after grief.
[15:33]After grief, the after grief. And she said about she was talking about parents and how
[15:39]when you lose a parent, that grief never goes away, but it evolves. And then there are days when
[15:44]it's really hard and days where you're sort of getting on with life and it doesn't impede too
[15:51]much, but another time when it's just terribly difficult. So with my character in the new novel,
[15:57]she carries her grief again a bit like Faye and Faye for a way. She carries it, but she
[16:03]she's not walking around. You wouldn't know. You wouldn't know she's grieving, but she
[16:08]she carries her grief. And then when she has this loss, this physical trauma,
[16:15]the grief from the past kind of overwhelmed, there's just too much. It's just too
[16:20]a loss too far, really, to deal with without her parents being there. But there are a cast of characters
[16:26]who are there for her and a bit like him, Faye for a way. I like I like nice people in my
[16:34]novels. You know, quirky and unusual, yes, some of them, but generally sort of good people.
[16:43]And now I don't think that's unrealistic because there are sort of people I have in my life.
[16:47]You know, I don't surround, I'm not surrounded by nasty people and I am grateful for that,
[16:52]but so I've tried to do something similar, which are just that cast of loving characters that we
[16:59]can hopefully get that heartwarming feeling off. What do you think it is that makes you
[17:04]drawn to writing about grief? I thought loads about grief in the last few months because I was asked
[17:10]to do a webinar in the summer called How to Write Grief in Fiction. And I was like, I don't know
[17:17]how to do that. And she said, but you wrote space. And there's grief. There's a grieving woman in it.
[17:23]And I thought, oh, yeah, well, I don't know how to write it because I think if it's worked
[17:29]in Faye for a way and space I'll put the grief, some of that was either it came a little bit
[17:34]naturally or I got a little bit lucky because when I was asked to do this webinar, I did lots of
[17:40]research. So they said to me, you do a webinar in How to Write Grief in Fiction and I was like,
[17:45]googling, how do you write grief in fiction? It was really eye-opening. So of course I did what you
[17:54]do at the beginning of something. You say, I'm not the expert, but don't let that put you off listening
[17:58]because I found out some really interesting things that are helpful to me. So I'll tell you all the
[18:03]things that might be all those things that were so helpful to me and that have really helped with
[18:08]writing this. And I actually want to write space off. But like I said a minute ago, I don't think
[18:13]I was drawn to the grief. I think I was repelled by it. I really found it hard to touch it because
[18:19]it was like touching an electric fence. I sort of, I had to go mirror it in order to make things
[18:26]happen in the book. But I really didn't want to touch it because it felt like it was gonna,
[18:30]it was gonna hurt. And I had, I did have an emotional time in terms of writing about the grief
[18:38]in a space offer between mother and daughter. Just because of, just because of what I tapped into
[18:43]to try and make it work. And I don't know how many people do this, but you know when you're writing
[18:49]and you're trying to feel it, you know, I kind of be at the computer or at the keyboard going,
[18:55]I'd be trying to feel it and trying to tap in, trying to remember what it was like to feel hurt
[19:01]or feel abandoned or feel betrayed and try and tap into that. And I think you've got to be
[19:08]willing to feel the hurt yourself in order to get it down authentically. Otherwise, how are you
[19:14]gonna do it? You can't pretend it's a bit like pretending you like a Christmas present. You've got
[19:18]a really pretend you like it to sort of, to give that otherwise they're never gonna believe you.
[19:24]And so yeah, with space hop up, I wasn't drawn to grief. I just didn't think about it.
[19:32]It was a side effect to how I was kind of interested in the other part of the plot.
[19:37]Later on, I've become more interested and more interested in it now. And I read it, I've been
[19:41]reading it to my son. So it's been interesting to sort of see, you know, how it felt, I felt much
[19:47]more removed from it. So I've been able to look at that part of it. I don't rambling now.
[19:52]So I'll ask you another question.
[19:58]There's another line I just
[20:00]wanted to talk about what you said. I realized I knew nothing about this woman, even though
[20:04]I loved her with all my heart. And I just underlined it as I read because so often with
[20:09]our parents, we feel like we know them, but we have a side of them, right? It's a perhaps
[20:14]carefully chosen, perhaps not, but it's a side nonetheless. And there's so much we
[20:19]don't know about our parents. And now as parents, there are things that like my kids might
[20:23]not know about. I hope they're not listening. Nothing specific. Nothing. Nothing to, you
[20:28]know, revelatory in any way. But there is this sense of, can you love someone wholly
[20:33]if you don't know all of them? I don't know. It's just like raised some question marks,
[20:37]question mark, question mark. So I don't know if you gave that line any thought or you just
[20:41]say it was just a throw away, but it made me pause. I give every line of thought and I mean
[20:46]that. I mean that. I really think about every line. But yeah, it's interesting that one
[20:52]because especially I've sometimes been with my mum and then one of her friends will
[20:59]turn up, but I'm watching them going, oh yeah, I don't like looking at my mum thinking,
[21:03]you're never like that. You're just with me. And yeah, I think that more than the grief,
[21:09]I'm quite drawn to the fact that we know that you present yourself in different ways
[21:14]to different people. I think parenting is the strongest version of that, but we feel like
[21:20]we know our kids or they know us because we're around them so much. But I know that
[21:24]I have friends who I am a completely different person around compared to other friends.
[21:29]And I guess with parents, you know, it's the same. But I don't know if there's a generational
[21:34]thing as well. Like my parents would have wanted me to think that they had always been
[21:39]good or never sort of stepped out of line. My daughter asked me the other day if I'd
[21:43]have a skived off school. So I didn't get that school. So, you know, I did month or
[21:52]twice, but it was horrible. And so I said to her, yeah, I did. And then I found myself sort
[21:59]of sitting on the other side of a hedge outside the field and feeling really weird and
[22:04]lonely and knowing that all my friends were in the classroom and they might be bored or annoyed
[22:11]but they weren't on their own. So I just felt really out of place. So I said, I just tried
[22:15]to get back into the school. And so it was quite nice to be able to share it. I think
[22:21]we do that a bit more these days. We think, well, it might be useful to tell our kids that
[22:25]we weren't perfect because then they can let us know when there's done something wrong
[22:30]or whatever and not feel so intimidated. But then you don't want to be a really bad influence.
[22:35]Yeah, I'm not skived off. I'm going around smoking. There's a line to be drawn, isn't there?
[22:43]But I think it's better to talk more. I'd love to know my parents a little bit better when
[22:49]they were younger. How old are your kids? My son's 10 and my daughter's 12.
[22:54]Excellent. How old are yours? I have 13 year old twins, boy girl. And then I have a seven year
[22:59]year old and an almost six year old. So they're all doing homeschool as we speak. And
[23:08]so far, we haven't been interrupted. So it's like a miracle.
[23:11]Wow. So they're not going into school at the moment. Hopefully after. So over here, the kids
[23:18]are going to school, which is good that you're able to homeschool so well. It really
[23:23]wasn't working here. I mean, it's not like it's remote. The teachers are coming. But yeah,
[23:28]not to say I got the supplies and all the rest of it. Well, I thought this book was amazing.
[23:36]I love your personality. I'm like, so excited for what's going to happen when this book
[23:40]comes out. I just had to get that out. And I just want to know aside from the flip chart,
[23:45]which I'm obsessed with and I'm going to go start one as soon as we get off and aside
[23:50]from the motivation and the regular writing, what advice do you have to aspiring authors
[23:55]who are trying to write a novel that gets picked up and that you start? And I know you started
[23:59]writing later in life. And this is like a dream come true. So maybe tell me a bit about
[24:03]that and then go into your advice. And then I'll leave you alone.
[24:06]Oh, don't leave me alone. I'm loving it. Yeah. Well, I started when I was 40. I think
[24:12]at the first thing I wrote, I was about 44 and a friend had said to me, why don't you write
[24:17]something? So I had this idea. And I gave her a chapter every week. This isn't space
[24:22]something I tried before. And I ended up abandoning. I wrote the whole thing. I was just very
[24:27]pleased to have finished it. And then I abandoned it because I'd have the idea for spacehopper.
[24:31]And I think that the best of well, I got a couple of bits of advice really and one kind of
[24:36]relates to this. So if you've heard of the author, E. L. Dr. Rowe and his famous quote,
[24:42]which is writing a novel is like driving home in the dark. You can only see as far as your
[24:48]headlights will allow. But that's enough to get home if you just keep doing a bit at a time.
[24:53]So when I write, I write, I kind of know what I want to achieve in that bit of writing. I write
[24:58]that. And then in between then and writing the next time, I just think about what needs to
[25:02]happen just for the next little bit. I do think for me, it's useful to have a plan of the whole
[25:07]novel first. But I think that taking it a step at a time, and that's where that comes into,
[25:11]because if I can take it one step at a time and fill in one bit of time and gradually see myself
[25:17]getting there, that really helps. But when I sense this, have brought to agents, I've got a
[25:23]lot of rejections. And I started sending out in October 2018, between October and December 2018,
[25:34]I had about 14 or 17. I can't remember how many was rejections. And honestly, they really
[25:42]they ground me down. And I was, I just got to December and I thought I can't take this anymore.
[25:47]I can't do it. If I can't do it with spacehopper, I can't do this. But I can't do it best not
[25:54]but I can't do it better than that first time. I just can't go on. And then quite a strange thing
[25:58]happens. So in the October that I started sending out, my ex-husband's fiance, who I get on
[26:06]well with, not having all the boys got all the way. But we do go well. She loves books. Okay.
[26:12]I didn't realize that the time quite how much she loves books. But she said to me,
[26:16]can I read your novel? And I was like, I don't know if that's a good idea because, you know,
[26:21]it's kind of, you know, she said, I read it, I won't tell anyone. Anyway, she read it. She said
[26:28]she loved it. And she had my delete it. And so I got all those rejections. And in December I gave
[26:34]up. And I cried myself to sleep every night for a very long time. And I thought, well, I was happy
[26:41]before I can be happy again. And I kind of got over it. And I just didn't write anymore. It's
[26:45]left it. And then in February 2019, this girl Sarah sent me a message. And she said, I've just
[26:52]finished reading a book. And it's not the same as yours, but I've got a similar sort of feeling like
[26:56]kind of 70s by then that sort of just that mother daughter thing. And she said, it just reminded me
[27:02]of your book. And that's it. She just wanted to tell me. And I was like, oh, that's nice. And then
[27:06]next day I was in Waterstones, the bookstore with my kids. And I saw the book that she was talking
[27:12]about. And I flipped to the back thinking, I wonder if the agent has been mentioned. And I,
[27:16]she was. So I thought, I'll just send it to one more agent. And I sent it to her. And I thought,
[27:23]then I Googled her and she's like a super agent. And I thought, I've got no chance here. But
[27:28]I sent it anyway. And a few days later, I had a message from her assistant saying, you know,
[27:33]it's Judith Murray from Green and Heaton. She's loving the first few chapters. Can you please
[27:38]send the rest of the manuscript? I was in the cinema at the time with my kids and like my friends
[27:43]and their kids. And I was like, yes, I didn't care. I didn't even want to watch the film. I was like,
[27:48]I thought I'd go home and send this somehow. I managed to get through the film. Send the manuscript.
[27:54]And it all happened very quickly. So that was February. And I met my agent on the first much. So
[27:59]my point is, my point is, and every aspiring author is told this, you've got to find the right
[28:05]agent. Because if you don't, it doesn't matter how brilliant it is. If it's not for them,
[28:10]they have to get passionate about it. So I would say read stuff. If you can, that you think
[28:15]is something like yours, just got that same feel and find the agents that worked on them. Because
[28:23]genre for me wasn't enough. One of the problems with, I'm sorry, I'm going off in a bit of tangent.
[28:28]But one of the problems for me with space opera and say far away was that because it had a time
[28:33]travel element, but it's not science fiction. It's not fantasy. It's not really about time travel
[28:39]at all. It's about loss and grief and hope and, you know, a longing that a lot of people have
[28:46]everybody has. But if I send that book to agents that were interested in science fiction and
[28:54]fantasy, they weren't going to be interested. But if I send it to any other agent, they're like,
[28:59]oh, it's time travel. It's not for me. So that was really tough for me to sort of get the right agent
[29:04]and luckily we're due to it. She sort of, I guess she sort of saw beyond the time travel element.
[29:08]And what was the other book? It was the queen of bloody everything. I have to go read that.
[29:15]That's really strong, really strongly set in the 70s and a very strong mother-daughter
[29:20]relationship. No time travel. Very interesting. Okay. Last parting advice. And then I'll let you
[29:26]go for real. Oh, just read lots. I know that this is another masterpiece of advice. But I found
[29:32]something that really triggered being me. I don't know if you're interested in this because I found
[29:36]it fascinating. So everybody says read a lot because actually, you know, you're reading,
[29:41]you're getting ideas, you're sort of, for me, it's like sometimes I'm boosted. If I think,
[29:46]I think I could do better than that. And then sometimes I read something and it's so great. I'm
[29:51]over ordered and I'm like, I'll never ever be able to write something this good. But there's
[29:56]something else as well. So spacehoppers written in the first person.
[30:00]And this novel is written in the third person.
[30:03]And what I found was, so I read loads
[30:06]when I was writing this or just before I was writing it.
[30:08]And while I was thinking about it
[30:10]and then when I was actually doing it,
[30:12]if I'm writing in the third person,
[30:15]I can't read in the first.
[30:17]Because when I come to write,
[30:19]I have to sort of switch the way around that I'm thinking.
[30:23]So if I can read really good stuff in the same person
[30:27]as I'm writing in, that really helps.
[30:30]And I found that when I wrote space opera,
[30:32]I sometimes thought I mustn't read
[30:34]because if I've got time to read,
[30:35]then I've got time to write.
[30:36]And I was really pushed there
[30:38]because I was working and my mother had a stroke
[30:41]and the kids were at school and a single mom.
[30:43]So there was quite hard to get those slots of time.
[30:47]But I would say if you could read,
[30:48]it seems to me reading seems to trigger
[30:52]a writing button in my brain.
[30:54]So that I would advise that.
[30:56]Love it.
[30:57]I'm sorry, I talked so long about stuff.
[30:58]I love it.
[30:59]This is what it is.
[31:00]It's a podcast so I can listen to people
[31:01]talk about really cool stuff.
[31:03]So in my mind, this is perfect.
[31:05]It's a perfect, perfect podcast.
[31:07]Well, Helen, thank you so much.
[31:08]By the way, it almost reminded me in terms of feel,
[31:11]I don't know if you've read Rebecca Searle's
[31:12]in five years.
[31:13]Have you read that book?
[31:14]No, but I'm going to write it down
[31:16]or I don't need to.
[31:17]It's like much podcast.
[31:18]So if you could just like it,
[31:19]then what's it about?
[31:20]It's a similar kind of alternate reality thing,
[31:24]but it's really about love.
[31:26]Anyway, you might want to check it out.
[31:27]I just want to check it out.
[31:29]All right, well, thank you.
[31:30]And you're so delightful.
[31:31]And I don't know if we'll ever end up in the same place,
[31:33]but it would be great to grab a drink or something at some point.
[31:36]Oh, I would love it for the same place.
[31:38]It's the same time that would be fantastic.
[31:40]And in the meantime, congratulations on your book.
[31:42]Actually, I'm right outside now.
[31:44]I'm going to look a little more.
[31:45]We're going to be talking about school and everything.
[31:49]And you'll lose massive.
[31:50]So we can sit quite a long time.
[31:51]In this zoom, it's really not.
[31:53]I feel like two feet.
[31:55]Like this autumn is like three feet away from me.
[31:57]I don't know what it is in the zoom.
[31:58]I know. It looks much bigger.
[31:59]Anyway, all right.
[32:01]Have a great day.
[32:02]And thank you so much.
[32:03]I love this video.
[32:04]Bye. Bye.
[32:05]Bye.
[32:07]Thanks to page and pairing.com for sponsoring today's episode.
[32:11]Go check them out, page and pairing.com, the weekly email that
[32:15]brings you book, wine, and recipe recommendations.
[32:18]And just a reminder, again, please pre-order a copy of my book,
[32:21]Moms Don't Have Time To, A Quarantine Anthology.
[32:24]And go to my website under the anthology tab for the fundraiser.
[32:30]And I hope you'll buy a ticket and join me for, and I should
[32:33]have mentioned, I'll proceed to COVID-19 research.
[32:37]So please join me for the fundraiser.
[32:40]Thanks so much.
[32:40]Thanks for listening to this episode of Moms Don't Have Time
[32:43]to Read Books.
[32:44]Don't forget to follow me on Instagram, at Zebioans,
[32:47]and at Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books.
[32:49]Also sign up for my newsletter, at Zebioans.com,
[32:51]and sign up for my virtual book club, and meet lots of authors
[32:54]on Zoom every other week.
[32:56]Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan at Texturesound for the Sound
[32:59]Editing.
[33:00]And thank you to Morning Moon Productions
[33:01]for providing this fantastic intro and outro music.