John Allman, BOYS DANCE!

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[1:42]John Robert Alman is a marketer and writer living in New York City.

[1:46]He is a graduate of Northwestern University, New York University's Stern School of Business and BMI's musical theater workshop.

[1:53]He works in marketing at HBO and previously worked at Bravo and on over 15 Broadway shows from kinky boots to mean girls.

[2:01]His first children's book A is for Audra Broadway's leading ladies from A to Z benefited Broadway cares equity fights aides and was listed as one of NPR's favorite books of 2019 and praised by entertainment weekly and playbill.

[2:14]John is also the author of two children's dance books in collaboration with American ballet theater B is for ballet a dance alphabet and boys dance.

[2:23]Welcome John thank you so much for coming on mom's don't have time to read books of course thank you so much for having me.

[2:28]Thank you for these amazing children's books which are really impressive you have three or I have three I should say in front of me which are amazing.

[2:37]I particularly love boys dance all of them are through the American ballet theater I'm sure you can tell me more about that and then there's B is for ballet and A is for Audra Broadway's leading ladies from A to Z.

[2:49]So tell me how you became a children's book author.

[2:54]It's actually a little bit of a fun story because it was completely by accident I was working sort of one job ago at a advertising agency that focused on live entertainment and most of my clients were Broadway shows I'm a huge theater fan grew up doing theater love living in the city to be able to see theater which has been one of the you know horrible things about this time is that none of us can go do that.

[3:18]I thought it was funny that some of my co-workers didn't really know their Broadway divas even though they worked in theater and kind of as like a gag gift the idea just sort of popped into my head and I ended up writing it out over the course of a couple days to like give it to a co-worker of mine as like a gag basically and then kind of that somehow coincided with another one of our colleagues baby showers and I just put two and two together and couldn't let go of the idea so I ended up kind of just like chewing on it for a while telling a bunch of friends about it and

[3:48]eventually enough of them had said like you sort of just never know what can happen in publishing and this is so funny I would love to be able to give this to my friends kids too so you should like go for it and I didn't really know much about the process or the industry at that point but I did a little bit of research and realized that all you really had to do was like pitch it around and kind of cross your fingers so I really went into it totally blind I cold e-mailed a bunch of agents one of them my amazing agent Kevin like got it immediately

[4:18]and offered to rep it and then after going back and forth on a proposal over the course of the summer one of the first two editors that he pitched it to turned out to be a huge theater fan herself and bought it like instantly so what would normally take like he was like settle in it'll probably be like a year before this lands me where it that it was like a week into pitching it it was sold to random house children's books which was crazy and like I still don't feel like that alone is real like I would have written it for free and then so

[4:48]I'm happy for anyone to put it out there just to educate people about these days that I love so much the fact that someone else kind of saw that and then convinced somebody else to see that who had to convince a whole team of people to see that and then you know put up with like having a very surreal wonderful meeting at one point where we just sat there and went through every diva and the book and decided what show we draw her in and what costume she'd be wearing.

[5:12]and it was like this business meeting to do that and it was just truly amazing and then kind of from there I lucked out and you know knowing that I have a background in dance and theater and performing arts my editor and her team did a deal with 80 to do a handful of books not all children's books over like a bunch of years.

[5:31]and had a couple of ideas that they felt like because of a is for a draw I might be right to take a stab at and they offered me to kind of noodle on two of them and I couldn't really decide between which one to do because I just done an alphabet book so.

[5:44]following up a is for a draw with b is for ballet felt fun but I also grew up doing dance and was very often the only guy in dance classes in Houston, Texas and there was like a personal connection to boy dance that I felt like would just be.

[6:00]to perfect to pass up so they let me do both and these both just dropped this past September and there's a first two books in random houses series of books with ABC.

[6:11]Wow that is such a cool.

[6:14]I love that it's like good things happen to get people it's really nice to hear yeah and it's I think it's a very good lesson in like just sort of following the north star of your passion to like I never wanted to be a children's book author but I love theater and I love musical theater divas.

[6:29]So much and like the little kernel of wanting to be able to sort of package that up and share it with friends kids which I think kind of tapped into something that so many musical theater fans feel which is that it's something that they're passionate enough about that they love to share it.

[6:43]And there's never really been something like this that you could really give to someone to kind of open their eyes to the breath of all of these amazing performers in such a concise.

[6:51]Kid friendly way as opposed to like you know the classic taking them to shows which is an accessible for everyone then you have to be a certain age for or listening to cast recordings which is a little bit of a different experience too so it's cool to have been able to kind of just.

[7:06]Stitch it all together and package it up like this and be able to introduce people to these ladies but I love so.

[7:12]Like you know kind of just sticking to your guns and when an idea takes you running with it and seeing how far you can take it I think is definitely something I have learned the easy way.

[7:22]So I'm curious you reference in all of the books you have more bio information and you mention them but then you go into more detail.

[7:30]A lot at the end, particularly like in boys dance for instance and I'm flipping through now just to like find you the page, but you have all these pictures and bio information on people like Calvin Royal third and Eric Tam and James Whiteside and Aaron Scott and then obviously an A is for Audra and even B is for ballet so I'm just wondering like these are hilarious I love this.

[7:51]Are sorry, do you fall? Yes, I'm holding up the the wall of the headshots at the back of A is for Audra which is hilarious you make it look like you know one of those signs outside a show or in the playbill or something did you send these books to those people.

[8:06]We did and part of the fun of when A is for Audra came out was just kind of like crossing my fingers and hoping that everyone in it was flattered and would kind of share it and.

[8:17]Yeah, and advocate for us and so many of them were which was as a theater fan in a huge dork who like you know to see have Christian Chenowick blurb the book and then Instagram about it and say that it was so cool it was just like you know crazy.

[8:33]And two years in the making too because as I'm sure you know picture books take forever to get done so not only from the you know the process of writing and then finding an agent and going through the sort of sales process, but once it's sold.

[8:45]It was over two years from that we can September that random house bought it to it actually coming out so that entire time I was like you know crossing my fingers that it would actually even happen and just holding my breath and then for it to drop in such a big way with all of these women being so supportive was really crazy.

[9:02]Oh my gosh, I feel like that would be such a dream like maybe I should do children's like with authors because I feel like those are my here.

[9:11]Sorry for you that would be kind of fun totally the cool thing about the back matter for boys dances that so for for as for Adrian for.

[9:20]Bias for ballet I wrote the bios in the back just to give people a little bit more information a tiny bit more information about each person but for boys dance.

[9:28]My editor and I actually went down to ABT after one of their core rehearsals and a bunch of their dancers stayed around after their male dancers and were gracious enough to.

[9:38]Just talked to us for a couple of hours over pizza and beer about their own histories growing up as boys and dance kind of how they found ballet what the obstacles they overcame to getting to the point where they are as professional.

[9:50]ballet dancers now and kind of like through their heroes were what their dream roles were and what stuff like that you know as a dancer kind of casually but not.

[10:00]professional level, that way, the answer I would never know, like what turns they were most excited to finally nail or those little things like that.

[10:07]And so we were able to bake a lot of that into the book and then 80T actually tapped a bunch of them to write their own sort of mini memoirs, which are what are in the back of that book.

[10:17]So I didn't even write those. They're kind of like personal essays on these dancers backgrounds and they're, you know, encouraging love letters to young guys who might want to get into dance and haven't had role models before.

[10:27]So it's really special and it's, you know, it was just so amazing that they not only gave us their time, but wrote these amazing blurbs for the back.

[10:34]That's so great. Oh my gosh. Yeah. And in the back of Boys Dance under your bio, it says John Robert Omen, blah, blah, blah, blah.

[10:42]He was born and raised in Texas where he was often the only boy in dance class and I was like, well, that's a book right there.

[10:47]Like that's a story. I would like to hear that story, please.

[10:52]No story, really.

[10:53]So what was it like growing up in Texas and being a dancer and what was your background? Like what was it like for you?

[11:01]I was lucky in that I had an incredibly supportive family and I had an incredibly supportive like school environment.

[11:07]So I mostly did all of my sort of performing art stuff for the most part at school, whether it was like school plays or school dance classes or dance concerts or choir or any of that.

[11:18]I was lucky to be in an environment where there was tons of options and it was all amazing.

[11:24]And I had these incredible teachers who sort of didn't bat an eyelash at any of my like very young theatricality or interest in dance or any of that.

[11:32]And I actually dedicated Boys Dance to my two dance teachers from Houston.

[11:36]So they put me in class and like soft things in me that I kind of knew I could do.

[11:41]Like I actually met one of them when he was new to our school and choreographed a musical and they gave me a little like tap solo.

[11:48]Even though I didn't really know how to tap and he just worked with me alone and like really encouraged me to kind of come out of my shell and master that in a way that I don't think I could have if he hadn't done that.

[11:59]And it was just so amazing and then kind of from there at snowballed and he kind of drew me into actually taking class even though I was the only guy and then those classes ended up doing concerts at the end of the year where again I was always the only guy in front of the entire school.

[12:11]And then eventually we did a student choreography showcase and I think because I just really wanted to be in a way I choreographed a piece on I set it on three of my girlfriends who are also dancers for the student choreography showcase and then ended up.

[12:26]I guess for some reason one of them couldn't do it in this big end of the year like you know performing arts celebration so I ended up dancing it with them again in front of the entire school.

[12:35]I'm just loving it so much and then went to college and I didn't major in theater but I choreographed like four shows at school and like you know now in the city take dance class every now and again just to kind of take up space and feel big and use my body in that way and see dance all the time so it's really turned into a real lifelong passion of mine and all because of Aaron my dance teacher from freshman year.

[12:57]I feel like teachers need to know especially now I feel like teachers are just at their wits ends having left my remote school in the other room.

[13:06]A little sky to come in here and do this podcast I mean it is tough what they're doing with all of this and to know that you know no matter what they're reaching these kids and making a huge difference for the contributions in the world.

[13:21]I mean you and I wouldn't be talking I wouldn't be holding these books like all these things would have been different I wonder how many of the books around me wouldn't have been written if people hadn't had encouragement or the books that are sort of lingering inside people who haven't yet had someone give them the boost that they needed so totally I was insanely lucky.

[13:38]That's so nice.

[13:40]amazing so what other projects do you have in store now you I can't imagine you're going to stop right.

[13:47]It's funny because I really never set out to be a children's book author and all but something about kind of the seed of being able to share my passion and introduce young people to different areas of the arts I think has like struck a little bit of a chord in me and also in.

[14:05]People who want to be able to do that as well by giving books like these to young people so we are working on a few more kind of in that vein.

[14:14]I don't know that I can say what they are specifically yet because we're still kind of gestating on some of them and having announced anything officially but we are doing a couple more I think knock on wood that'll kind of continue to flesh out just a little bit of you know arts intros for young people that I'm very excited about and feel very fortunate to be able to do.

[14:33]Did you feel like when you moved from Texas to New York that the world opened up and like a whole new way for you with the live access to all the performances.

[14:42]Yeah kind of I mean you know being a patron of the arts was always something that I was able to do even in Houston which is where I grew up mostly it's a huge city so there are.

[14:52]Amazing arts organizations and I grew up seeing pretty much every show at the alley theater which is Houston's like you know Tony award winning regional theater that does incredible first class productions of plays and sometimes musicals and.

[15:06]The Houston ballet is obviously a world class ballet company where I saw my first ballet and so I was fortunate to kind of be immersed in it and have access to it then but it definitely.

[15:15]Kind of like clicked into a new gear when my family moved to New York City so the year that I went to college actually my parents moved to New York just by coincidence and so I was always back and forth and for breaks and that Thanksgiving.

[15:27]And all of that I was coming back from Chicago to New York and able to see like 10 shows and five days and that was like all I would do would be.

[15:35]Be like bye guys and meet up with my friends in midtown or wherever and and see as many shows as we could cram in before going back to school and that.

[15:42]As sort of stayed a huge part of my life like I was was just reminiscing about how crazy it is to not have been in the theater and so long now when like I probably hadn't gone longer than a week before in like you know eight years so it's just crazy.

[16:01]But yeah, I felt very lucky to be able to see as much as I saw when when they first moved into have been able to make that such a big part of my life.

[16:11]Have you been watching any virtual things like the Hamilton thing on you know the virtual productions versions read.

[16:19]There have been some amazing moments, especially early on where I feel like all of us were sort of so shell shocked that like being able to kind of commune together and watch some of these virtual events was, you know, such a needed sort of.

[16:33]So substitute for like and the feeling of being in an audience and you'd kind of be online tweeting with people about what was happening in real time and it just felt similar to.

[16:42]You know a big lightning rod moment like when a show opens and everyone sort of shattering about it so there was like you know a song time birthday concert early on where they had all of these incredible Broadway.

[16:53]Actors and actresses performing from home in like a sort of series of zoom performances and then obviously I think you know since then there have been so many amazing workarounds for being able to share life theater and and arts during this time including Hamilton on Disney plus which I loved actually just last night I watched city centers.

[17:12]It was a brand new concert that they filmed in theater with honor McDonald's and it was so crazy and kind of jarring because you know as a substitute in between these events that have been produced for this moment.

[17:27]I've been kind of binging older canned performances from people every now and again just to sort of feel something and feel like I'm watching a live performance but she she programmed the night and shows her songs and wrote her banter.

[17:41]And so all of a sudden after months of really not seeing anyone in concert like that you have object McDonald opening her concert with a song called solitude and sort of speaking to the moment that we're all feeling of being so alone right now and then.

[17:56]You know shifting gears and doing some other rep and then coming back to it and doing some other time from on the town which is you know just this gorgeous song about.

[18:04]you know catching up down the line since we're out of time now but.

[18:08]I'll see you later or a place for us from West side story these amazing.

[18:12]standards that take on such a crazy new meaning in this context and to see her perform them so beautifully and really cater the evening towards an audience that's all over the place at home alone or with their families was just.

[18:28]really special and I highly recommend it to anyone it's I think it's available for another week on New York City Center's website yeah.

[18:36]I have to go do that with my daughter hopefully they do something else with it but it's just it's stunning I can't recommend it highly enough.

[18:43]Have you thought about teaching kids dance or teaching kids about.

[18:49]You know I haven't I think so I work in TV by day I'm in marketing and I've been thinking a little bit just with sort of you know how much is blowing up in the content space across all of these different streaming platforms about what it could be like to kind of look at some of.

[19:04]I've been thinking about this through a lens of like a kid's TV sort of like CBS Sunday morning for kids that you just have about all of these different art areas and people.

[19:12]But I don't know we'll see it's fun that it's such a like a ripe area to have sort of tapped into and be able to explore in different mediums but I haven't I haven't thought too much about you know anything concrete beyond the books.

[19:24]I know a school where you could get involved.

[19:27]Including a couple of months so you know start by rolling it out on zoom you know whatever.

[19:35]Yeah totally I actually I did choreograph a few musicals for like local elementary and middle schools growing up and I would love if I ever had the time and could you know be there during the day which is tough on like a nine to five work schedule to do something like that again.

[19:52]Just to you know move around and be able to share a love of performing with young people in the same way that it was shared with me my two little guys are doing.

[20:00]Like an after school frozen to zoom class, which has been very tricky to get them to focus on the computer and like having them say their lines, they're six and seven.

[20:12]So, but it's really cute and they have their whole like dress rehearsal and then performance next week.

[20:16]That's amazing. So they're putting together the whole show on zoom.

[20:20]Oh yeah. Wow.

[20:22]It's been a semester long project.

[20:24]Incredible. So creativity over the way that folks have been able to use that to kind of string together really really phenomenal programming is just has been blowing my mind. That's amazing.

[20:34]I'll send you the link if we do. I would love to see.

[20:38]I don't know. Anyway, well John, this is amazing and I'm so impressed with you and I feel like you should be running a theater and you should not be marketing for TV and I want to like guide you to the the calling that you

[20:52]I'll also add to your business, but you should certainly be on like the board of a theater or something.

[20:57]I don't know about that, but thank you.

[20:59]All right. All right.

[21:00]I'm going to follow you about this because you know the theater and I feel like there's such a not waning interest, but it's you know so much of the theater going population pre COVID was becoming a much older audience.

[21:13]I'm actually on the board of Lincoln Center theater for the young people when I was young.

[21:18]I'm trying to counteract the sort of aging thing and inject some life and excitement into younger people to go into the theater and not that you need that.

[21:27]You're obviously like totally on board, but to spread to spread that contagious joy and excitement would be awesome.

[21:35]Definitely an energy like none other for me.

[21:38]I feel like if anything, if these books encourage anyone to go take a dance class or listen to a cast recording for the first time or to see a show, I feel like even one that my work here is done.

[21:48]So I'm about to stand up dance right now watch out.

[21:52]It's also just I think live performance is so not to get you know, I don't know overly sappy about it, but I think now more than ever really like we're just a society so in need of empathy.

[22:06]Live performance and theater, especially are so uniquely positioned to foster that if you're open to it. So I think just getting more people into seeds to experience things live and communally and to let them kind of chip away with them a little bit.

[22:20]It's just so important. So I'm very hopeful that we can start getting back to that as soon as we can.

[22:26]Sounds great. Do you have a favorite play or anything of favorite musical just to leave us with. Can you pick one.

[22:34]I hesitate to because I feel like it just sort of ebbs and flows with my mood and I love so many for so many different reasons, but if I had to, I think.

[22:43]it's probably my favorite show. I'm a sucker for a good like diva turn and I'm also a sucker for theater about theater and I don't think either of those things get better than that show.

[22:55]Awesome.

[22:56]Well, fantastic. Thank you so much. Thanks for coming on this podcast and thanks for all the books and yeah, I'm just so excited to have connected.

[23:04]Of course. Thank you so much for having me in Ditto. It's been a pleasure to chat.

[23:08]Okay.

[23:09]Thank you.

[23:10]Bye.

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[23:36]Thanks. Thanks for listening to this episode of moms don't have time to read books.

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[23:52]Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan at Textures Sound for the Sound Editing and thank you to Morning Moon Productions for providing this fantastic intro and out trim music.