Jarrett J. Krosoczka, STAR WARS: JEDI ACADEMY
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[1:53]Jay Krasasca is the New York Times best selling author and award-winning illustrator
[1:58]of more than 40 books for young readers, including his wildly popular
[2:02]Lunch Lady graphic novels, select volumes of the Star Wars Jedi Academy series,
[2:07]and Hey Kiddo, which was a national book award finalist.
[2:10]He has been a guest on NPR's fresh air, featured in The New York Times, and a Ted Tuck speaker.
[2:15]To tackle the pandemic boredom, Jared created the wildly popular web show,
[2:19]Draw Every Day with JJ K, which provides art lessons for kids ages 6 to 11.
[2:24]The YouTube series has been viewed more than 550,000 times,
[2:28]it's just six months.
[2:29]Jared also recently debuted a 10-episode virtual interview series,
[2:33]called Original Origin Stories with JJ K, where he hosts in-depth conversations
[2:38]with some of the biggest names in graphic novels.
[2:40]Welcome, Jared.
[2:41]Thanks so much for coming on Moms.
[2:42]Don't have time to read books.
[2:44]Thank you so much for having me.
[2:46]You have written so many different amazing things.
[2:49]I almost don't know where to start.
[2:50]When I first got pitched to you coming on this podcast, I was like,
[2:53]oh my gosh, because all of the Star Wars books, my kids have been reading for years.
[2:57]And I was like, oh, they're going to think that's really cool.
[3:01]Oh, that's so sweet.
[3:02]And then as I showed you the picture of my seven-year-old who was reading Lunch Lady in bed,
[3:06]and absolutely loved it.
[3:07]And then I love to take it out.
[3:09]Oh my gosh, this, I've never really read a memoir in graphic novel before,
[3:13]as a grown-up.
[3:14]So I just want you to talk about everything, but let's start with Hey Kiddo,
[3:17]because this was really moving and amazing.
[3:20]And your story, I know you've done this TED Talk that a billion people have watched,
[3:23]but tell me about this memoir first, and that was a long and long intro.
[3:28]But no, no, I appreciate all of the effusiveness.
[3:32]Hey, Kiddo was a story about my life growing up, and my mother was addicted to heroin,
[3:36]and I was raised by her parents who were alcoholics minus the label.
[3:41]I didn't know who my father was, but I had art.
[3:43]And so that's, I always use art as a way to rise above my situation.
[3:50]And so in 2001, when my very first picture book was published, I thought,
[3:54]oh, here's the happy ending for this kid who always loved to draw.
[3:59]But in his mother loved to draw, but she had addictions and she was incarcerated.
[4:04]But then every time I sat down to write, what would become Hey Kiddo,
[4:07]I would stop because I'd find myself censoring it.
[4:10]You know, like pre-centering of, oh, what is this person going to think about how they're depicted?
[4:15]What is, so I realized that if I wasn't ready to be all in and really tell my story,
[4:23]I just wasn't ready to write the book.
[4:26]And so I went on to write more picture books and then the lunch lady books.
[4:30]And as I was working on lunch lady, and lunch lady was published initially between the years 2009
[4:36]and 2012, which was, which means like in the early mid 2000s, I was actively making the books.
[4:42]But I would always, I'd get sort of like my mind would wander and I would start drawing
[4:47]my grandparents or who I was as a teenager.
[4:49]And so the idea of writing about my life was, was always there percolating.
[4:55]But you mentioned that TED talk.
[4:56]And actually it was, it was October of 2012 when I gave that talk.
[5:03]And I was a last minute replacement.
[5:06]So I was home, it was a Friday afternoon, which is miraculous that I was home because
[5:11]I tore all the time giving lectures at schools and libraries.
[5:14]So the fact that I happened to be home that Friday afternoon, my phone rang, and even the fact
[5:20]that I didn't have the number programmed into my phone, I still answered it.
[5:22]You're like, oh, this is, I'm really putting myself out there.
[5:25]This, who is this, I don't know this, but it's a local area code.
[5:29]And it was a producer at the TEDx talks happening at Hampshire College, which is the next
[5:34]over for me.
[5:35]And they said, we had a last minute cancellation.
[5:38]Would you be willing to sub in?
[5:41]And initially I thought, oh, like I always thought, wouldn't it be cool to give a TED talk?
[5:45]You know, like, and so I thought she meant it was next week or the next day.
[5:49]And then she said, no, it's tonight.
[5:51]It starts in four hours.
[5:54]But the thing is, my wife, Gina, we had plans to go out to dinner.
[5:58]And she's constantly, and the whole family is constantly sacrificing their schedules
[6:02]for the demands of my work.
[6:03]So I said, you know what?
[6:04]Let me call you back.
[6:05]And I said, Gina, like, I want to let's talk about this.
[6:08]Like, should I do it?
[6:08]She said, and then she got mad.
[6:10]Like, why the hell didn't you say yes right away?
[6:12]Like, that was dumb.
[6:13]Like, say yes, do the talk.
[6:15]And I committed with, you know, four hours to go.
[6:19]And immediately began pacing the floor of my kitchen out of, like, what am I going to talk about?
[6:25]You know, and, and Gina's like, you know, you're thinking to into it,
[6:28]the story is right there in front of you.
[6:30]You should write about your childhood.
[6:32]And I said, okay, so I'll get up there.
[6:33]And I started spitballing.
[6:34]I'll get up there and I'll say, I love to draw.
[6:36]And my mother loved to draw, but she was addicted to drugs.
[6:39]And Gina stopped me.
[6:40]And she said, no, your mother was addicted to heroin.
[6:43]You should say that.
[6:45]So I had a slideshow that I had just put together for educators for a 16-minute talk.
[6:52]For of course, now the TED talk can't be longer than 18 minutes.
[6:55]So editing it down, you know, jumping in the shower, getting dressed.
[7:01]And then of course, our babies that are canceled on us.
[7:03]So imagine if I said no, and then the babies are canceled.
[7:06]They would be no date night and no TED talk.
[7:09]And so Gina couldn't come with me, which was probably for the better,
[7:12]because it was almost easier to be so vulnerable without making eye contact with her
[7:18]and seeing how that story pains her, right?
[7:21]And I arrived at the venue.
[7:23]They said, there's your seat.
[7:25]I took my seat.
[7:26]The light went down the first speaker went up.
[7:28]And so I didn't even go through that talk ever, but I went up there
[7:33]and I talked about my mother's heroin addiction and the talk went viral.
[7:37]And from the response of kids at schools made me realize,
[7:44]oh, I have a story that I've been trying to write.
[7:47]And I used to think I want to write this book.
[7:50]And now I realize I need to, you know, when that's something I've truly come to realize that,
[7:55]you know, we don't write, we don't, especially memoir.
[7:57]We don't write memoir, because we want you, but we feel compelled to,
[8:01]because our experiences can help other people through whatever they're dealing with
[8:05]or understanding other people's a path in this life.
[8:08]Wow.
[8:09]So after the TED Talk, when you had essentially sort of out in everything in your history,
[8:16]did it even sort of create a ripple?
[8:18]Did you worry at all about then releasing the book?
[8:21]Or was it like over?
[8:23]No.
[8:24]With the TED Talk taught me was how to deal with strangers talking to you about your private life.
[8:30]Okay, right.
[8:31]You know, how do you do that?
[8:33]Well, it was good training, right?
[8:35]For me, it was good training to, if I had just had the memoir,
[8:38]I think I really would have been overwhelmed by the response, you know, but so slowly over the
[8:43]years, I would connect with people.
[8:46]So I learned how to also accept people's pain and still still remain in one piece for myself,
[8:54]right?
[8:55]And then anytime something would come up being an interview or something or, you know,
[8:59]there would be another wave of people reaching out to me.
[9:02]So I, you know, I learned how to find the right balance of making myself available to readers,
[9:09]but then also exercising self care, you know, and so by the time I booked toward for a
[9:15]kiddo two years ago, you know, I really was prepared for for what was to come.
[9:21]I mean, you know, their grandparents handing me photos of their grandkids that they're
[9:25]raising at home.
[9:26]And even to, you know, hey, kiddos, young adult, right?
[9:29]It's for ages 12 and out.
[9:31]I did not sense as you've read the book.
[9:32]I didn't sense or anything.
[9:33]My grandmother cursed like a sailor who used to be a trucker, you know, and there was one of my
[9:39]book events.
[9:39]There was a 10 year old there.
[9:41]And I was always, especially, I'm known as was known, especially as the lunch lady guy or
[9:46]Jedi Academy with these young, fun stuff.
[9:49]And now I was, I was really conscious of the fact that, oh, there might be someone who thinks
[9:54]this is going to be lunch lady, but I'm going to be talking about my mom's diction heroine.
[10:00]And I did, but I didn't want anyone to feel unwelcome.
[10:02]So what I would do is I have a slideshow of praise quotes
[10:05]that explained what the book was, right?
[10:07]And before the event started.
[10:10]And then that family came up after the book signing,
[10:13]that 10 year old was there because her 13 year old
[10:15]elder brother overdosed and died.
[10:18]So yeah, I mean, those are stories that I'll carry with me
[10:21]for all my days and, but those are the stories
[10:24]that validate for me like why I wrote this.
[10:27]So those, those young readers and older readers
[10:30]could feel less alone.
[10:31]Do you feel now a little more pessimistic
[10:33]about how widespread this is as an issue
[10:36]for families in America today?
[10:38]I don't know if I feel more pessimistic about it.
[10:41]I mean, I think, I think people who are dealing
[10:44]with opioid addictions not fully,
[10:48]but more so than when I was young are really looked at
[10:51]as someone who's battling an illness
[10:54]versus having a moral failing.
[10:56]You know, I feel if I was growing up today,
[10:59]I would have had more resources to understand
[11:01]that my mother was ill and that she just wasn't a quote-unquote
[11:06]bad person as it was always sort of painted for me.
[11:08]And then I read when you wrote at the end
[11:10]that while you were editing the book,
[11:11]your mother passed away.
[11:13]That's so awful.
[11:14]Tell me a little bit about the timing of that
[11:16]and how you handled that.
[11:18]Well, you know, we had been a strange
[11:20]for a couple of years at that point.
[11:22]So when my second kid was born,
[11:25]she started getting arrested again.
[11:26]And so for a number of years,
[11:27]the only way I knew what she was up to,
[11:30]so I had to say, you know, I have a young family,
[11:33]I have a three-year-old, I have a newborn baby,
[11:35]you're getting arrested again.
[11:37]I can't have this in my life right now.
[11:39]The most difficult thing I could ever do,
[11:42]but you know, as much as I loved
[11:44]and wanted to care my mom,
[11:46]I knew that my most important role was of a parent myself.
[11:51]So that these young children needed me
[11:54]and I couldn't get pulled into a lot of that stuff.
[11:56]And so, you know, we exchanged a few text messages
[12:00]and I saw her a year prior to her death
[12:03]at a different family in the funeral
[12:05]and we made peace with one another.
[12:07]And so when I got the news that she died of a heroin overdose,
[12:12]I wasn't surprised, I wasn't gutted and sad,
[12:17]but then also relieved to know that she wasn't suffering anymore.
[12:22]You know, I kind of liken it to, like when someone's had
[12:25]maybe terminal cancer for a really long time,
[12:28]you know, she started using when she was like 12, 13 years old
[12:32]and she lived well into her late 50s,
[12:35]she had a really long life
[12:36]for someone who lives such a lifestyle.
[12:38]But when I was cleaning her house after she died,
[12:42]I was really confronted with the ugliness of her plight,
[12:46]which, you know, that brought a deeper understanding
[12:50]of what she went through than anything, you know,
[12:52]because as a kid, you often think,
[12:54]when you're a kid and you have a parent who has an addiction,
[12:57]for me, I would always think,
[12:59]and I hear this from other people too, that,
[13:00]oh, you chose drugs over me, you know,
[13:03]and seeing what she dealt with right to the end,
[13:06]I realized, well, she only chose drugs once
[13:09]and that was well before I was ever born, right?
[13:11]So she wanted nothing more, but to be a parent and be there
[13:16]and to be a grandmother.
[13:18]But, you know, even, you know, on my first kid's first day,
[13:22]she got in touch with me,
[13:23]not to wish my kid a happy birthday,
[13:24]but to ask for money, right?
[13:27]So things like that were, it was like,
[13:31]like, I mentioned this as a TED talk,
[13:32]it is like Charlie Brown trying to kick the football,
[13:34]you know, but you just keep, you keep trying
[13:36]because you hope maybe you may contact.
[13:39]Wow, but you seem to be in such a like,
[13:42]psychologically healthy place to talking about this.
[13:45]I mean, you could be,
[13:46]Gina down here, she could tell you the whole other side
[13:48]of the goal.
[13:49]Okay, well, that makes me almost feel better
[13:51]because I mean, and you mentioned, you know,
[13:52]how you wish you had therapy as a child,
[13:54]but you're lucky enough to have had it as an adult
[13:56]and that was just something that you grandparents
[13:58]didn't really believe in and all the rest.
[14:00]But I mean, you seem, I don't know,
[14:03]you seem like you have made peace with this
[14:05]in such a profound way.
[14:06]And now all you do is basically give back
[14:09]to other people with your books and illustrations
[14:11]and even during the pandemic,
[14:12]all that you're drawing shows, like,
[14:14]I don't have it, is that all because of this therapist?
[14:17]Or no, no, no, I was because my grandfather,
[14:19]my grandfather was a very altruistic man, you know,
[14:22]and he never forgot where he came from.
[14:23]He always would say to me, remember your station in life,
[14:27]remember your last name.
[14:29]He grew up with nothing and a place that gave him
[14:33]a lot of opportunities was the Boys and Girls Club of Worcester.
[14:35]So he, his entire life would support them
[14:38]and donate to them.
[14:39]So, you know, my grandparents raised me,
[14:42]they didn't believe in therapy,
[14:43]but you know what, they always gave me empty sketchbooks
[14:46]and art supplies.
[14:47]So they, in their own way, provided me a space
[14:50]to work through a lot of that stuff, you know.
[14:53]But I will say, when I finished Hey Kiddo,
[14:56]that was like, not closing a chapter,
[14:59]but it was very healing because it was a hard book to write.
[15:02]I mean, I liken it to Harry Potter
[15:04]in the order of the Phoenix when Professor Umbridge
[15:06]is making Harry write lines with the blood quill.
[15:09]And every time he writes, I shall not tell lies,
[15:12]it's getting cinged into the back of his hand, right?
[15:14]And that's kind of what it felt like at times.
[15:17]But then when I finished it, I was like, wow,
[15:19]like I lived through that and I'm stronger for it.
[15:22]And then it published, which was this other wave
[15:24]of anxiety and nerves.
[15:26]I mean, like weeks before the book published,
[15:28]you thought, I can't ask them not to publish it.
[15:31]I signed the contract, they spent all this time
[15:33]and money to put the book out there.
[15:35]But then again, it's getting those responses
[15:37]from the readers.
[15:38]I'd say, okay, that's why that pain was worth it.
[15:40]Going through the challenges of writing the book
[15:43]was worth it for that.
[15:44]And, you know, I also went to like,
[15:46]when I was 16, when I started
[15:49]when I got a camp for children with cancer.
[15:51]And it was that experience too, that taught me,
[15:54]there are so many different kinds of pain.
[15:56]Like I have my pain, these families have their pain.
[15:59]And being of service to somebody
[16:02]and that lifts your spirits more than anything.
[16:06]You know, one of the camps I worked at
[16:08]was the Hole in the Walking Camp,
[16:09]which was founded by Paul Newman.
[16:10]And his often used quote was that, you know,
[16:14]the mathematics of the whole thing didn't really make sense
[16:17]because no matter how much you put in,
[16:19]you get so much more out of that sort of work.
[16:21]Wow, that's beautiful and so inspiring.
[16:24]And totally paraphrase and putchered.
[16:26]He said it much more eloquently than I just put in.
[16:28]No, not the quote.
[16:29]I mean, that's lovely, but I just know the whole story,
[16:32]just the way you're able to channel your life
[16:36]into such a giving outcome essentially.
[16:38]So thank you.
[16:39]And tell me a little more about the drawing show
[16:42]that you launched recently.
[16:43]Okay, my January 1st, 2020, you know,
[16:47]as we all look to the great new year ahead of us
[16:50]and we think, what do we want to accomplish
[16:52]or what do we want to work on?
[16:54]My New Year's resolution was,
[16:57]I would like to do more webcasting.
[16:59]I would like to do more live videos.
[17:03]I'd like to create more videos from my YouTube.
[17:06]And so, you know, step one is, okay,
[17:09]how am I going to achieve this goal?
[17:11]And I have three kids and I thought the only way
[17:14]that I could really make this work
[17:16]would be to carve out a space
[17:17]that would be just for recording.
[17:20]So this, I'm in a room in my basement.
[17:22]It's a smaller room.
[17:23]I have my flat files over here
[17:25]and it was just a storage room.
[17:27]And I said, okay, if I just take this little corner
[17:29]and I have an extra drafting table
[17:31]and I would go on Facebook Live once a week
[17:34]for the adults and I would go on YouTube Live
[17:37]once a month for schools.
[17:39]And then when everything started shutting down
[17:41]in the middle of March, you know,
[17:43]my mind was rapid fire.
[17:44]Like everyone's like, what are we going to do?
[17:46]And then also like how can we help?
[17:48]Like what can I do in this moment?
[17:50]Like I have friends who are nurses and doctors
[17:53]and friends who are, you know, deliver bread
[17:56]to all of the supermarkets in central Massachusetts.
[17:59]And they were all, you know,
[18:01]such that they're putting their lives at risk
[18:03]and not knowing what was going to come out of this work
[18:06]they were doing, which was to benefit people.
[18:09]And I was, I was actually in Pittsburgh
[18:11]right before the shutdown.
[18:12]I was traveling the first couple of weeks of March,
[18:15]definitely being anxious.
[18:16]Definitely I was masking up and sanitizing
[18:18]and thinking, I don't know if I should be here, you know,
[18:22]and then the NBA shut down on Broadway shut down
[18:25]as I was flying home from Pittsburgh.
[18:27]But I was staying across the street
[18:29]from where Mr. Rogers filmed a show.
[18:31]Even just like driving by there.
[18:34]Like that's like, imagine like he went to work every day
[18:37]and he walked through that door.
[18:39]That's really neat to think like that physical space
[18:41]is where Mr. Rogers would go to work every day.
[18:45]And so I had that in the back of my mind
[18:47]and then I was at the airport nervously scrolling
[18:50]on my phone before the flight took off.
[18:52]And a friend of mine, she pulled her kids
[18:55]before our town officially called it.
[18:57]And she had a big whiteboard with the schedule
[19:00]that they were going to keep and I said two o'clock art.
[19:03]And I said, well, I could, I could teach your kids art.
[19:06]Like I could, you know what, that's what I'll do.
[19:08]And then it just all, you know,
[19:10]the neurons has fired away on that plane home from Pittsburgh.
[19:14]And I said it'll be called, it'll be called dry every day
[19:16]because we're gonna dry every day.
[19:18]And we'll do it, you know,
[19:19]everything's getting shut down for two weeks.
[19:22]We'll just do this thing for two weeks.
[19:23]It'll be done.
[19:24]Life will be back to normal.
[19:25]Done, okay, where am I traveling to next?
[19:28]And so obviously, you know how that story ends.
[19:31]And you know, by over the weekend,
[19:32]we formulate like, hey, what would it be?
[19:34]There'd be different segments.
[19:36]I have, I made little animations, you know,
[19:38]I have an overhead camera so you can see me draw.
[19:41]And then after two weeks, we said, okay, like now
[19:44]we felt, you know, people were really sort of counting on me.
[19:46]Like I would receive these messages of gratitude.
[19:49]And so then again, I felt a little bit of a responsibility.
[19:52]So I did every single day for the next couple weeks
[19:56]and another couple weeks after that.
[19:58]And then I went down to two or three episodes.
[20:00]loads per week. And then Labor Day hit and summer came and I said, let me just put it on pause,
[20:05]takes a time to take stock and reflect and recharge. And also realizing how like, you know, as soon
[20:11]as the adrenaline leaves your body, you're like a marionette without strings. I meant to really
[20:16]what happened to me. And so I took the summer to relax and by relax, I mean, stay in my yard with
[20:22]my kids. No relaxing. Yeah. Oh, relaxing. And not have any childcare health or anything and not
[20:30]be able to see anyone I love. Other than that, it was a great stream come true. But then I picked it
[20:35]up again in middle of August. But also realizing that with Hey Kiddo, I have this whole other
[20:41]readership that's older. So I started another web show called Origin Stories where I'm interviewing
[20:47]my graphic novelist friends about how they came to be. You know, and that that is a show for
[20:52]for teens and adults. And when sometimes younger kids could, well, like there's an episode with
[20:56]Raina Tellgum Meyer and that would be appropriate for everyone. But I don't want to hold back and
[21:00]I'll be interviewing some other authors who have more, you know, older, skewing, older, skewing work.
[21:06]So drive every day is about two times a week. Origin Stories is a bunch of weekend. I record it
[21:10]right over here. I'll turn this around. So this is a tiny little room there are my flat files.
[21:15]And that is where I record origin stories. Wow. Basically, it is smaller than I even thought
[21:21]you were like in a tiny little box. Oh, but it looks amazing. It's amazing. It's amazing.
[21:25]It's like, if I stood up, I touched the ceiling, but then you would see my sweat.
[21:31]Nobody is setting up on it. But that's just the illusion of, I guess, TV magic, right? I mean,
[21:38]when I was, I shared some behind the scenes photos a couple months in and people thought I was in
[21:44]like this attic with huge windows and skylights. And it's a couple of ring lights and a microphone.
[21:51]But but I was able to do that so quickly because I had the ring light here because I had all of
[21:56]this stuff set up. I mean, you know, I think we'll all be traumatized by the pivoting for so long now.
[22:02]I mean, I think I don't think I've even processed it all yet. You know, I'm sure none of us really
[22:07]have that spring because, you know, why because we're so busy morning every new thing that we
[22:12]don't have, right? So now we're in the midst of morning Halloween and making plans for
[22:18]how we can safely celebrate Christmas with my in-laws and all that. So yeah, even the marathon is
[22:24]coming up here. Like, that's like, I'm like, even the marathon's not happening. That's outside.
[22:28]You know, but yeah, I know, but I know what you mean every every milestone. I'm in my head like,
[22:34]oh my gosh, are we really like, if we hit March 12th again, like, I don't know what I'm going to
[22:39]do. It's like, yeah, this is really, are we still going to be in this state with no vaccine and
[22:44]no anything. But anyway, well, I would say I would say, you know, every now and then June and I say,
[22:50]we miss the days of just Tiger King and New TikTok. I cut his throat. So if Netflix, if there's a
[22:59]Netflix executive listening, if you could please make a Tiger King season two for us by March 12th,
[23:04]that'll be the only thing else. Oh my gosh. So, so now what is coming next on the book
[23:11]front for you? I have a book called Sunshine, which is a follow up to Hey Kiddo. It's actually
[23:18]so much a follow up as much as it's a companion. It totally sends on its own. It's about my time
[23:22]working at that camp with children with cancer. And it actually fits into this book. It was originally
[23:28]a chapter from Hey Kiddo. And I'll show you the page. So what was once a whole chapter became
[23:34]just this page here in Hey Kiddo. And I needed to explain how that experience informed my motivation
[23:42]to meet my father. So you could read Hey Kiddo up to here. Stop, read all 240 something pages of
[23:53]Sunshine and then come back and then read read the rest here. And that's that was one of the
[23:58]greatest gifts my editor gave me when I was writing this. He said, don't write this book like it's
[24:03]your only chance to write about your life. And it's true, right? Because our lives don't unfold in
[24:09]a nice neat three-act structure. There are so many different tracks and so many things going. And
[24:13]even even as I continue to think about life experiences that I want to write about, you know,
[24:20]oh, I think that this part here, because there were a lot of parts and things about my grandparents
[24:26]that just didn't fit into the narrative. So, you know, I have these two wonderful tracks where I could
[24:32]write these heavier books for older readers. And then I could write younger goofy stuff for
[24:40]for younger readers as well. So when I have another series in the works for that that lunch lady
[24:45]Jedi Academy age as well. Wow, very, very busy. Do you have any advice for aspiring authors,
[24:54]for illustrators I should really say or creators? Yeah, I mean, you just have to, I mean,
[25:00]one of the greatest gifts my grandfather gave me to was my work ethic, right? So he he grew up
[25:04]during the Great Depression and that's something he always instilled in all of his kids, including
[25:09]me that hard work is so important. So it really doesn't matter what art college you go to,
[25:15]if you even go to college for art, or if it's just about your craft, if you have to work on your
[25:21]craft, it's a constant journey and growth. So, you know, I could look at any of these books and
[25:27]point out everything that I would want to change about every single one of them. But I can't,
[25:32]they're printed. It's done. I can only take that knowledge of of into my next projects.
[25:36]That's awesome. Well, I had such a great time talking to you today, especially our little
[25:42]pre chat. Yeah, on our dogs habits and whatever else, you're really inspiring. It's it's amazing.
[25:51]And I love all the good you're doing in the world and, you know, the entertainment mixed with
[25:55]emotion and it's really fantastic. So I'm glad our pads have crossed in this world. And
[26:01]I am too zippy. Thank you. I appreciate you and thank you for all you're doing as well to
[26:05]to respond light on books that you love. Thank you. All right. Have a good day.
[26:11]Have a good day. Okay. I'll see you soon, Zippy. Thank you. Be well.
[26:16]Thanks again to today's sponsor, me, my holiday gift guide, zippyowans.com slash gift shop.
[26:23]Please go check it out. Buy something for someone you love. And I promise you won't regret it.
[26:27]Zippyowans.com slash gift shop. Go check it out. Thanks for listening to this episode of
[26:31]moms don't have time to read books. Don't forget to follow me on Instagram at zippyowans. And
[26:36]at moms don't have time to read books. Also sign up for my newsletter at zippyowans.com and sign
[26:41]up for my virtual book club and meet lots of authors on zoom every other week. Thanks so much
[26:46]to Steve and Ryan at Textures Sound for the sound editing. And thank you to Morning Moon
[26:50]Productions for providing this fantastic intro and now trim music.