Jennifer Risher, WE NEED TO TALK
[0:08]Hi, I'm Zibi Owens, and you're listening to the award-winning podcast Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books.
[0:13]Please sign up for my newsletter at zibiowens.com for weekly updates about my podcast's events and more.
[0:20]Also, follow me on Instagram at zibiowens and also at Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books.
[0:26]And finally, join my virtual book club called Zibi's Virtual Book Club, which meets every other Tuesday at 2 p.m.
[0:32]Eastern Time until 3 p.m. and features half an hour of book club discussion followed by 30 minutes of Q&A with the author whose book we've just discussed.
[0:41]You can sign up on my website zibiowens.com under the virtual book club section or even on Instagram, under the link in my bio.
[0:49]I hope you'll find to me in all these different channels and enjoy this podcast.
[0:53]Hi listeners, I am so excited because Ferdy is back as a sponsor this week.
[0:59]As you may know, from listening to previous episodes, I am obsessed with Ferdy and their clothing.
[1:05]I discovered this little store in the Pacific Palisades Village mall in LA,
[1:11]and my husband Kyle and I just went crazy.
[1:14]They have amazing men's clothes and women's clothes that are so soft and great fabrics and colors and everything else.
[1:21]And I have been a fan for so long.
[1:23]So when they approached me to be a sponsor, I was like over the moon.
[1:29]They even did a little website for me on Ferdybrand.com slash zibi.
[1:34]So go to Ferdy spelled F-A-H-E-R-T-Y, brand.com slash zibi.
[1:41]And you get 25% off all their clothes, which I have definitely used and I have to stop at this point.
[1:48]But I keep buying their cozy sweaters and dresses that go with leggings.
[1:53]And I have this turtleneck light sort of brownish,
[1:58]Heather Gray, I'm not describing it very well.
[1:59]But anyway, dress-ish thing that I've been wearing almost every day.
[2:04]Kyle wears these jackets slash polo, I'm not polo buttoned down shirts,
[2:10]sort of indoor outdoor, I mean, we're stuck in the house anyway right now.
[2:14]But anyway, you have to go get 25% off with code zibi.
[2:18]Ferdybrand.com, go check out their clothes.
[2:21]You'll see why I'm obsessed.
[2:22]I'm kind of sad to be revealing this little secret brand that I thought that we had only just
[2:27]discovered, but turned out a lot of people know about.
[2:29]And now you do too.
[2:30]So go check it out.
[2:31]And thanks Ferdy for being a sponsor.
[2:33]So this is an interesting podcast.
[2:35]I got to interview a husband and wife team.
[2:38]The wife is Jennifer Richard, who is the author of We Need to Talk, a memoir about wealth.
[2:44]Jennifer was born in Seattle, Washington, grew up in Oregon and graduated from Connecticut
[2:48]College.
[2:49]She joined Microsoft in 1991, where she worked as a recruiter and then as a product manager.
[2:54]She and her husband, David, who I also interviewed alongside her today,
[2:58]have two daughters and live in San Francisco, where David is CEO of World Reader, a non-profit
[3:03]he co-founded with a mission to create a world where everyone is a reader.
[3:07]I like that mission.
[3:08]In May 2020, Jennifer and David launched hashtag half my DAF, half my death to inspire more
[3:15]charitable giving.
[3:15]We need to talk is Jennifer's first book.
[3:18]And as you'll hear from David himself, he was one of the very first employees of Amazon,
[3:23]and he tells us about what that was like among many other interesting things and how he became
[3:28]a humanitarian on behalf of reading.
[3:30]Welcome, Jennifer and David.
[3:32]My moms don't have time to read books.
[3:34]I'm so excited to have both of you here with me today.
[3:37]Thanks for joining.
[3:38]Yeah, thanks for having us.
[3:40]So this is like a dual purpose interview, the two of you, this power couple,
[3:45]who now I know like the most intimate details of your life, he goes to Jennifer's book.
[3:50]I'm like, oh, it's embarrassed.
[3:51]It's called the book is done.
[3:52]We need to talk a memoir about wealth, but it's really also a memoir about you and it's about
[3:57]your success in life and how things have developed and your relationship and
[4:02]family and struggling with everything from am I spoiling my daughter by going to Hawaii when she's
[4:08]all these big and small questions in life.
[4:10]And then David is here, A is your husband and like the central character in this book,
[4:15]does I agree you and also because he's doing such amazing things as you both are reading
[4:20]worldwide.
[4:21]So anyway, lots to discuss.
[4:24]So why don't we start with the book, Jennifer?
[4:26]Would you mind just telling listeners who aren't aware and who might not have gotten the full
[4:31]scoop from my brief summary there?
[4:33]What your book is about and also what made you write this book?
[4:36]What made you write it?
[4:37]And why now?
[4:38]Yes, yes.
[4:39]Well, you know, Zibi, I'm really lucky because when I was 25, I joined Microsoft and I met
[4:46]David and I also got stuck that ended up being worth hundreds of thousands of dollars.
[4:52]And you know, six years later, David and I were married, expecting our first child.
[4:57]And David started this job at an unknown startup that was selling books on the internet
[5:04]because he loves books and he wanted to try this thing out and it was Amazon.
[5:10]We were in our early 30s and we had more money than we could wrap our heads around.
[5:15]And you know, well, surprised me.
[5:17]I didn't find myself in a big sparkly private club hanging out and sharing financial secrets.
[5:25]I found myself kind of alone in a strange silent space where no one talks much about money at
[5:31]all. Now, I felt the resentment of friends. I was worried about raising spoiled and titled children.
[5:38]I wasn't sure how to give to family members or how to approach philanthropy.
[5:44]You know, no one discusses these things.
[5:46]Even though most people are new to these challenges, eight out of 10 people with wealth grew up
[5:53]middle class or four. So, you know, I was surprised that wealth felt so isolating because normally,
[5:59]you know, if I have a problem or a question, I turn to friends. If I want to figure out,
[6:03]should my 16-year-old have a curfew, I ask everyone I know. Like, I get their ideas, I hear about
[6:09]their experiences, I get advice. And just talking about something like that is helpful because it
[6:15]lets me know, you know, my question is normal, that it's shared, but the same doesn't happen with
[6:21]money. And I couldn't talk to people about having a lot of it. So, you know, I thought I'll turn
[6:27]to books and I wanted to find a book, but there were no books. It's like, where is the bookshelf
[6:33]for people who have won the lottery? I can't talk about this. And I needed that book. And actually,
[6:43]you know, I wrote my book because my story is when I'd want to know about if it hadn't happened
[6:49]to me. But I also wrote my book for the millions of Americans like me who have more money
[6:56]than they had growing up. Or they have more money than many of their friends. Or they have more
[7:02]money than others in their extended family. I'm sharing my story as a way to help other people
[7:09]understand their own because we have this sort of fairytale idea about wealth in our heads.
[7:17]The reality feels strange and lonely. So, you know, I'm not trying to show people how to do
[7:24]rich right. I don't have the answer for that. But I am offering up this story that hasn't been
[7:30]told. I feel like you came in also, sorry, I hope I interrupt you, but you came in with this bias.
[7:36]I mean, I feel like your family was particularly not anti wealthy, but just like, you know, there
[7:42]was such a judgment attached to spending anything. Like, I feel like you had such a chip on your
[7:47]shoulder. Like, maybe that everyone coming into wealth is that almost disdainful of it. Or like,
[7:53]I can't enjoy this house. Or I can't, you know, get a connecting flight. Or whatever it was,
[7:59]right? Right. You know, I feel like you had a particularly strong background against it.
[8:05]Yes. And when you like found yourself in it, you had to do a lot of mental work to kind of,
[8:11]you know, it's like cognitive distance in a way, right? Yes, I mean, I think, you know,
[8:15]I to become something that you're biased against is tricky. So, I had to really work through that.
[8:21]But I do think that we have a very narrow and incomplete view of wealth in our country.
[8:27]We see the stereotypes, you know, we know the Kardashians and the real housewives and the
[8:33]men of Wolf of Wall Street. And of course, we've heard of Jeffrey Epstein or the parents who
[8:39]illegally try to get their kids into schools that they're not qualified for. So we see these stereotypes.
[8:46]So I don't think I'm the only one who kind of has this view of what wealth is all about. I mean,
[8:51]it doesn't look or feel like what Hollywood sells us. And, you know, eight out of ten,
[8:55]like I said, people with wealth grew up middle-class or poor, so they are you.
[9:01]Right. And I feel like so many people would be like, really? Okay. So it's hard for you to be
[9:07]suddenly wealthy. I'm really sorry about that. You know, and that's why you can't get like a
[9:12]normal conversation going about it because it's something that people would really like to have.
[9:19]You know, even if there's a bias, right? So it's hard to, you know, it's a what was me problem.
[9:24]It's like, what was me? Should I go to Aspen or not? You know, right? These are the tough
[9:29]quiet. These are the tough questions. So I think people are very quick to mock it and not
[9:34]understand it. And then they're left a big hole for your books. There you go.
[9:39]Well, I think there's a reason this book hasn't been written. It's because of that. And I think
[9:44]it's important to start conversations, because, you know, no matter how much you have in your bank
[9:49]account, if you have parents, if you have a partner or siblings or friends, you probably know
[9:55]that money is uncomfortable to talk about. You probably have faced
[10:00]sort of that awkward money moment or you have some money issue sort of hanging over your head
[10:05]and you know it's emotional and these emotions are universal you know no matter how much you have
[10:13]we have a lot of fear it's fear of being rejected fear of hurting other people's feelings
[10:20]fear of not measuring up or of sounding unknowledgeable you know we all have
[10:26]money shame and money guilt and we all have that money story it starts in childhood. David I
[10:34]don't want to leave you out here I have all of Jen's you know views of her family and her wealth
[10:39]and all the stuff in some of yours but what was this whole experience like for you like are you
[10:44]do you share the let's talk about it let's let other people in like mission of Jennifer's right
[10:51]now or how do you feel? For sure the answer is yes to that question they do but yeah I mean my
[10:56]work up was different and I didn't grow up with a lot of money myself in fact I was raised by a
[11:00]single mother and for me and our sort of big event for the week was going to the library and
[11:06]coming home with a big stack of books like that was sort of that's how we sort of explore the world
[11:10]so in which obviously has something to do with what I'm doing now but you know so for me there's
[11:16]less emotion in a sense tied up you know my mother my mother would say is we're not poor we just
[11:22]don't have any money just kind of like a sort of a neutral statement so I didn't have that sort of
[11:27]you know kind of bias coming in at the same time I had no preparation for what we've come through
[11:31]at all at all and you know as Jen said I mean this is the book I would have looked for on a bookstore
[11:35]if it existed but instead you know she had to write. Wow and by the way I used to work at a company
[11:40]called IDLAB I don't know if you knew it it was like a big deal in like 2001 for like a hot minute
[11:46]so I had a moment with stock options because I was one of I was like the 25th employee and all
[11:51]of a sudden I was like oh my gosh this is gonna be amazing I don't know there's a huge pile of
[11:57]fallen throughout anyway it didn't happen but I know when you were saying how people had the stock
[12:02]price you know in the office it was like checking all the time that was sort of became the culture
[12:06]of some of the operating companies so anyway I don't even know why bother sharing that I want to
[12:11]hear about the new non-profit and half my dad and all these things that you guys are doing to
[12:17]like change the world world reader and like everything so how when did all this but when did the
[12:23]non-profit element giving back sort of start you know bubbling up in your lives and how did it
[12:29]come to this I mean it's something we can probably both talk about and we have you know maybe a little
[12:33]bit different perspective and either one of us really grew up in a family that gave a lot of money
[12:38]way and we didn't have anybody to give away gens parents what really what really wired that way
[12:42]and so for us I mean gens talks about this you know sort of our first sort of philanthropy I guess
[12:47]was sort of you know our children school asking us per donations and you know these sorts of things
[12:52]which looking back on it are sort of fine on ramps but it's kind of incremental this you know it's
[12:57]not really gonna kind of get you over that sort of home years ago about 10 years ago we decided
[13:02]to spend a year traveling around the world with our children with our two daughters we have
[13:06]two daughters and at the time they're very young and we were their teachers which is a whole separate
[13:10]experience and just infuriating and fantastic and everything you imagine but we also spent every
[13:15]afternoon and then often you know entire days are longer and working with them doing kind of service
[13:21]work you know we would be taught at a school in China for a couple weeks taught English there we
[13:25]helped paint a house and actually helped them buy a house in Vietnam and so forth along the way we
[13:29]were reading and again that's the sort of separate story about world reader but but I think both
[13:33]of us at that point we're sort of looking for you know kind of a little bit of the next thing
[13:37]and I am particular it was very much looking for the next thing I've been at Amazon for many years
[13:41]and so again I can tell you the story the beginning of Amazon separate if you're interested but
[13:45]for us at least I would take that you guys finish this one finish this one wow so you know we
[13:54]gotta tell you just sort of the beginning of world reader which will kind of help tie a couple
[13:57]threads together so we actually ended the trip in Ecuador and we were at an orphanage and as
[14:02]we're walking there's a girls' orphanage and our daughters and bonds here and we had spent the
[14:05]day kind of working with the young women there as we were walking towards the exit of the orphanage
[14:10]the woman who ran the orphanage was kind of looking around and I was too and I saw building with
[14:13]a big pair block on it and I asked the woman what's going on with that and she said well you know
[14:17]that's our library so here okay my ears are pricking up right so because I'm the library kid right
[14:22]that was I wouldn't good at a lot as a kid but I could you know I knew something about the library so
[14:26]anyway I said well why is it locked and she said look the books tick forever get here they come
[14:30]by building often by the time they get here they're not very interesting because they're out of date
[14:35]or maybe they started out as being someone else's kind of almost trash book type of thing so
[14:40]the girls just aren't very interested in that anymore and I said you know well gosh that doesn't
[14:44]sound good at all can we take a look inside and she said you know I think I've lost the key to that
[14:48]place and when she said that and when you know now we're looking at our two daughters and each of
[14:53]of our daughters has a Kindle because you know my Amazon background we use that to read around the
[14:58]world you know every place we read books that were local books and so forth I just said this is
[15:02]crazy so you know one thing led to another and I mean started world reader with this notion that
[15:08]you know everyone can be a reader you know readers build a better future you know healthier
[15:12]there are more prosperous more empathy and if we can get a billion people reading someday this
[15:16]world group will be a better place that's been what I've been focused on this last 10 years
[15:21]just as Jan has been focused on for 14 years writing this book about money and philanthropy and
[15:25]sort of doing more in the world so it's been a really interesting you know kind of both parallel path
[15:29]but the paths which keep kind of crossing and all sorts of fun works you must have really great
[15:34]inspiring conversations at the dinner table about what you guys have been doing during the day
[15:39]it's pretty awesome yeah well inside or look at the formation of Amazon I'll take a snippet of that
[15:45]if you're if you're offering it for sure I mean all I can say there is you know I was the
[15:52]30 so you were the 50th employee I know what it's like okay so so you know what it's like to
[15:59]be part of a company that's still figuring out what it's all about I was number 37 at Amazon
[16:03]and at the time it was a tiny has Jen said a tiny little internet bookstore we could
[16:07]sold 15.6 million dollars of books in 1996 and in 1997 after some conversations with this sort
[16:13]crazy guy named Jeff Bezos who actually literally called me one day checking the reference of
[16:19]someone who used to work with me when I was at Microsoft anyway joining this company he had this
[16:23]just huge vision of I want to be the place you can find and discover anything you want to buy
[16:28]on the internet that was kind of his early vision and maybe if we're lucky we'll get to a billion
[16:31]dollars by 2000 and I just said look how can I not do this it's technology which I go into a lot
[16:36]of Microsoft it's books because it was a bookstore and if we could we could become earth's biggest
[16:41]bookstore that was our tag on at the time and we could maybe do something that really did
[16:45]kind of change the world but it was exhausting and crazy and frankly we didn't know what we were
[16:49]doing half the time I mean we almost ran out of money a couple times there there again it's
[16:53]it's probably a whole separate podcast but well I can say is that from the outside today Amazon
[16:57]looks like this incredible machine but I will tell you when you're employee number 37 and you're
[17:01]literally putting down the train tracks as the train was just barreling down the tracks it's
[17:05]pretty frightening last thing I'll say my mother would she would she would call me and she would say
[17:10]look there what have you done why am you left Microsoft to go this crazy thing and in the the
[17:15]papers would be calling us Amazon dot bomb right that was the sort of thing so anyway no one knew
[17:20]what the heck why I made this crazy decision but I just said look it was kind of about books kind
[17:24]of about reading kind of almost a passion but you see it was just gonna work and luckily it's
[17:28]done it did and at that time you know when people weren't going to their computers to buy things
[17:33]and I was like oh my gosh who's gonna go to the computer to buy a book and then he was gonna add
[17:37]music and he was gonna add toys I'm like no one is going to go to their computer
[17:42]likely someone all had a better vision than I did
[17:45]that's exactly what my goal we'd also just had our just put that up for
[17:49]star so it was kind of crazy people would say maybe you should just have one child at once
[17:53]like not have a child anyway looked up well that's nuts
[17:58]that was the story I feel like though the start-up life and the parenting life I mean you're
[18:03]probably up at all hours in both cases so it must do sort of
[18:07]you know in my years right those would be relationship right those would just be neither one of
[18:12]us up for about you know seven years I mean nobody needs sleep Jen in your book I found it
[18:18]really interesting that interspersed with all of the personal stories and sort of the thought
[18:23]provoking issues you brought up you had little pages with like discussion questions as if you
[18:28]wanted us to stop and like literally like I thought I should find yeah like little conversation
[18:34]starters like all right I better stop and I don't know talk to my husband about what
[18:38]Emily's what's what about the parents at Emily's new independent school what are they doing
[18:44]with each other and all the rest tell me about putting in the questions at each chapter and not
[18:48]even like bullet points which I feel like other books do but like almost like reading you know
[18:53]book club questions as you go tell me about that well I do think that this is like I do want
[18:59]it to be a conversation starter and get people talking about money I mean I think you know I
[19:04]talk about private school auctions and private chats and I talk about the luxuries money can buy
[19:09]but I also really take a look at the human aspects and the emotions that arise so even though
[19:16]the specifics might be different for people I think people can relate to my stories and I'm hoping
[19:22]that they can kind of understand their own in a new way and those questions really are prompts
[19:27]to get people I mean I can see like you reading it with your husband or giving it to your parents
[19:33]or giving it to your sibling or giving it to a good friend and that is then it becomes sort of the
[19:39]catalyst for conversation that it makes it easier to start those conversations so I'd love to
[19:45]for people to use those questions not only to kind of think about for themselves but to share
[19:51]and start these money conversations that are so needed start them happening I mean I think my book
[19:56]is like the ideal book club book I mean for
[20:00]People who want to it's not easy. I always tell people this is really really uncomfortable and so I'm I'm sort of inviting people to get uncomfortable.
[20:10]And in a book club, for example, it could be like let's acknowledge let's give each other permission to fumble around to get it wrong to get messy.
[20:21]You know that's what we're going to be doing together and I think if you can create that safe space, it really can bring people closer.
[20:29]I think on the other side of those sort of fears is a real connection a sense of relief and then a chance to really learn from each other and collaborate.
[20:42]Have you heard of a manual acho? He started something called uncomfortable conversations with a black man and he's doing all that about race.
[20:50]And now he has a book coming out. I think this week that Oprah is helping publish and he's like a big deal. He's only like 29. So, you know, wow, wow, I know I know I know I know.
[21:00]Let's put that annoying fact aside, literally was saying the same thing. You need to feel a little uncomfortable. You have to have a conversation that gets you out of your comfort zone.
[21:09]And that's how we make change. You're doing it about wealth and he's doing that race. But yeah, now we need somebody about like uncomfortable gender conversation.
[21:18]That's a great idea. There's examples of people growing without a little discomfort.
[21:24]You know, they're just not. And that's what gender you're trying to do is push you into that zone and then hopefully on the other side there's a better connection.
[21:30]It's like working out, right? It's like it doesn't feel good necessarily, but you know, if you ever work afterwards, you feel I mean sometimes otherwise I like hobble around today sometimes you feel better.
[21:41]What did the two of you think about how much anti-wealth sentiment there is in the United States right now? I feel like being wealthy is like the worst thing you could possibly be.
[21:51]You know, so many even politicians and everybody want us to take wealth away and redistribute it. What is your view on all that?
[21:59]Well, I do think it's a huge problem. I think maybe it's the biggest problem our country is facing this disparity.
[22:05]Yeah, there's a lot of resentment and I don't think the resentment helps anyone. It doesn't help those who feel it or the people on the other side. I mean, when there's a huge and influential segment of the population that isn't talking to each other, right?
[22:19]Who feels attacked by this or you know, and isolated. It's not making them empathetic or generous. So, you know, we need to kind of start closing this gap.
[22:34]I mean, our silence creates a lot. It's has a lot of power. It helps kind of keep the status flow in place.
[22:41]So, I'm hoping to get conversations going that can kind of shake things up, help us recognize our own privilege in a new way, help us feel more accountable through conversation, help us collaborate.
[22:53]I mean, we have to have the power to do amazing things and help bring this country together.
[22:58]It's what we need right now is to be united and to shy away from the resentment and the huge disparity. I think is not a service to anyone.
[23:08]I mean, yeah, there's there's people are going without housing without healthcare without food.
[23:14]There's an education crisis. I mean, we this is the moment that we need to face this and if we're just going to turn our back or pretend doesn't exist or kind of accept it. That's that's not okay with me.
[23:26]How does it just add super quickly. I just like growth doesn't come with without some vulnerability and awkwardness. I don't think change comes through shame. It doesn't work. And so that's not helpful. It's a country. It just doesn't. It just doesn't.
[23:39]What do you think about the fact that so many of the people well, I shouldn't say so many. See, I'm having an uncomfortable conversation in my own head.
[23:49]What do you think about the fact that if given the choice and you said do you want a million dollars, most people would be like sure handed over and yet.
[23:58]So they're like talking on one side about how they it shouldn't be that way. But if it if they were to have that happened to them, they would gratefully accept it perhaps.
[24:08]And the role. I mean, not to get too political, but you know, obviously there are societal issues, but is it whose job is it to redistribute that wealth like is it the individual or is it from the government.
[24:20]I mean, I think philanthropy's wonderful. And I think we should all be kind of filling that responsibility, but we can't. There's it's a drop in the bucket compared to what needs to happen. And it needs to happen at a governmental level policy level.
[24:32]Yeah, we need, you know, healthcare for all. We need to ensure that there's a strong social safety net for people in this kind of we I don't want to live in a society where people are living on the street.
[24:45]So that's the disaster to me. We need we need a huge structural change. And I'm very thankful for our new leaders.
[24:53]I'm very excited. Such a fun work. I'll air this later. But we're talking now right after this historic exciting weekend. I feel like I've been like bouncing around my house.
[25:02]Just so much optimism right now so much excitement. I'm so ready for it, which is great.
[25:08]I wanted to know how you're handling your daughters at this point. So in order to not spoil them, like today, like what is what is your approach to parenting without spoiling.
[25:20]Yeah, what are what are the rules? What are the right. Well, the ground works already been laid. I mean, I think it happens early. And I don't think it's like a conversation. It's it's living your values day to day week to week.
[25:34]But they they're watching you. So kids see how you interact with other people. They see kind of how you make decisions what you prioritize.
[25:43]So I think, you know, it's even just having thinking about going into the grocery store with your with your kids. What do you do when someone cuts you off and takes the parking spot? How do you react? Like are you deserving of that parking spot?
[25:54]Or do you kind of accept like, well, maybe they're in the rush. Let's find another one. It's okay. And going into the grocery store is it's an opportunity to show your values to talk about, you know, are you choosing things because of, you know, the value they have or the price or how do you make decisions?
[26:10]How do you make choices? And that's an opportunity for teaching your kids too. You know, when you go to the meat counter.
[26:16]How do you interact with the man on the other side? Are you gracious? Are you thankful? Same with checking out. I mean, I think all these small details add up.
[26:26]And I think that's what kids really really learn how they learn is through watching us. And I think it's about not only values, but sort of our attitude, the sense of gratitude. I think it's really important. I mean, even if you're traveling to to amazing places.
[26:42]If you, if you don't take things for granted, if you show appreciation, I mean, all these things are important. I think you need to walk the walk and and your kids will learn from that.
[26:53]And how about entrepreneurial ways versus not. Are you trying to imbue that as something that's like, I mean, maybe just by modeling your kids absorb this and, you know, being a Silicon Valley family.
[27:06]And perhaps it's just goes without saying, but what do you think about entrepreneurship and the family? Well, I want both of our daughters to find themselves and follow their own path and figure out what's right for them.
[27:18]I mean, yeah, we're modeling what's right for each of us and as a couple, but now they're, you know, they're in their early 20s. This is their moment to find their own path and find their own passions and find out where where they can make their impact and difference in the world.
[27:32]So I want to support them to be their best selves.
[27:35]I also just put in my own two cents it to your parenting. I think that even though they're in their 20s, they're still a lot to be a parenting left in terms of.
[27:47]Especially in terms of the financial side of life because this is when, like, I think back to my 20s and like, I feel like my parents say, okay, she's good. Well, she's good.
[27:57]You know, we can't spoil her and, you know, she's off on her own, but, you know, I don't think the 20s, you know, this is my 40s. I'm like ready to go.
[28:07]I don't think I was in my 20s necessarily. No, and I realize this more and more and especially this is where the wealth gets layered on. I'm reading a really wonderful book by James Grubman called strangers and paradise.
[28:19]And it really talks about kind of, you know, the, the stereotypes of wealth and then the kind of attitudes that we both brought to wealth, which is middle class attitudes.
[28:29]And those served us well, but, but now we have to think about how to use our wealth in society and with our kids and it's more inclusive.
[28:38]It's more interdependent and it's starting those conversations and we have started to have kind of family conversations and kind of talk about our values and our mission as a family who has this incredible resource.
[28:51]And how do we, how do we make sure we harness that for good in the world and that our children buy into the philosophy that they were doing this as a family.
[29:00]And that is a piece that I'm worth it in process right now. I mean, so it's, yeah, it's a big question and I think a big question for anyone who's kind of come into more money than they had growing up.
[29:13]The big worry of course is initially like how am I going to spoil my kids are they going to be entitled and they're going to be ambitious and motivated.
[29:20]And I feel like we've checked that box, but then there's this whole new kind of how are they going to be as as people as stewards of wealth in the world.
[29:31]Sometimes it's just better to be lucky than smart.
[29:33]So the fact that we started world reader 10 years ago has given an arc which at that point they were in fourth and sixth grade.
[29:40]So fifth and seventh grade. So they were young at the time.
[29:43]I think that's right.
[29:44]And so they've had 10 years to sort of watch, you know, sort of how to steward not just the wealth side but kind of how you spend your life side of things.
[29:53]And one of the things sometimes people ask me about, you know, philanthropy and, you know, rolling up your sleeves and starting an nonprofit.
[29:59]And by my basic.
[30:00]devices, you know, do it and do it earlier than you think you should.
[30:03]You know what I mean?
[30:04]Just kind of get into it.
[30:05]Because it does set an example.
[30:06]First of all, it takes some time to get halfway good at it.
[30:07]You know, here we are 10 years later and it still feels like a work and process for, you
[30:11]know, for me at least.
[30:12]But also it gives your kids and your family weight is sort of experience it over a long
[30:15]period of time.
[30:16]And I think, as Jim was saying, it's not just about that.
[30:19]People want to diminish these sorts of things as a one-conversate, you know, what does
[30:22]the talk look like with your kids about money or something?
[30:25]It's not like that.
[30:26]It's years of experience and watching and absorbing.
[30:28]And I agree.
[30:29]The daughter actually was just up here for dinner a couple of days ago.
[30:32]And she actually brought up wealth herself and relationship that she has with her boyfriend
[30:35]and so forth.
[30:36]She's 23.
[30:37]So it's still happening.
[30:38]Yeah.
[30:39]That's like a whole other thing.
[30:40]So what advice would you both have?
[30:44]Both to aspiring authors having written this book and I'm sorry we didn't talk a lot about
[30:48]your process.
[30:49]And I'm interested in all that, but I guess I don't know, next podcast.
[30:52]Advice to aspiring authors and then advice to people who really want to use their wealth
[30:57]for good.
[30:58]Both.
[30:59]Yeah.
[31:00]Well, aspiring authors have a lot of tenacity to keep going.
[31:04]I mean, I think I really enjoyed the process of writing.
[31:07]I found it fascinating.
[31:08]It's like a puzzle.
[31:09]Like how is I going to piece all these pieces together and how is I going to talk about
[31:13]money in a way that wasn't off-putting or offensive?
[31:16]So I had those pieces to kind of wrestle with.
[31:19]And I've been rejected so many times.
[31:21]I think it's, you know, believing in yourself, believing in the process and just keep
[31:26]going.
[31:27]And you can do it.
[31:28]It's good, but I really take me on many, many years so I'm very happy to have it out in
[31:34]the world.
[31:35]Yeah.
[31:36]And on the sort of putting money to work for good, I would say it really starts with
[31:40]looking in the mirror and thinking to yourself, what do I really care about?
[31:44]You know, it's so easy to get confused.
[31:46]People ask you, if you have money, if you don't have money, people ask you for things
[31:49]all the time.
[31:50]And you have to remember that there's a difference sometimes between what they want and
[31:53]what you want.
[31:54]If it comes to doing this sort of work, I mean, world leader now is they say we're 10 years
[31:58]old, we've reached 15 million kids, you know, we're using technology and local books all
[32:03]around the world.
[32:04]Actually, today, this is fun.
[32:05]I know that podcast will air in the future, but today, Monday, November 9th is the day
[32:10]we're announcing that after 10 years we're finally bringing our program to the United
[32:13]States to help vulnerable communities here in the United States, that's going to have huge
[32:17]ripple effects on the organization.
[32:18]So it's hard work.
[32:19]It's hard running and I'm profit is not easy and sort of doing good in the world, whatever
[32:23]that looks like for you.
[32:24]These are big problems, right?
[32:25]The problem of literacy, the problem of the environment, the problem with pick your
[32:28]favorite.
[32:29]So you better care about it a lot because if you don't care about it a lot, you'll give
[32:31]up too fast.
[32:32]And if you give it too fast, you'll get nothing done.
[32:33]That is true.
[32:34]Nobody ever won the race.
[32:36]They didn't, they didn't go on, right, or whatever, that expression is anyway.
[32:39]Well, thank you both so much and I really appreciate it hearing your story from, you
[32:45]know, the proposal to know so thanks for letting the rest of the world in on your lives
[32:52]and trying to help others in the many ways you do.
[32:55]And if people want to support world reader, David, how would they do that?
[32:59]They go to worldreader.org, worldreader.org on your phone or on your computer and come
[33:04]in and take a look at what we're doing.
[33:05]We'd love to have all the support.
[33:07]We can get it.
[33:08]The only way we're able to do our work.
[33:09]Amazing.
[33:10]All right.
[33:11]Great.
[33:12]Well, thank you so much.
[33:13]Thank you.
[33:14]Thank you.
[33:15]You really enjoyed it.
[33:16]Yeah.
[33:17]That's not all the lottery winners your way.
[33:18]You should just put it in the like convenience stores, you know, if you win, you're just
[33:20]going to take it.
[33:21]Anyway, just as that marketing opportunity, that's all I said.
[33:28]Thanks again to Farrity for being a sponsor today.
[33:31]Go to Farritybrand.com slash Zimmy and get 25% off.
[33:37]Enter code Zimmy for 25% off.
[33:39]These amazing comfy winter clothes and summer, but for now winter and we will thank
[33:45]you.
[33:46]Thanks for listening to this episode of Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books.
[33:49]Don't forget to follow me on Instagram at Zibioans and at Moms Don't Have Time to Read
[33:53]Books.
[33:54]Also sign up for my newsletter at Zibioans.com and sign up for my virtual book club and meet
[33:58]lots of authors on Zoom every other week.
[34:01]Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan at Texture Sound for the Sound Editing.
[34:05]And thank you to Morning Moon Productions for providing this fantastic intro and out trim music.