Cameron Douglas, LONG WAY HOME
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[1:57]Camera Douglas is the author of Long Way Home, a memoir of fame, family, and redemption.
[2:03]He and I did this talk together as part of the JCC Houston book festival.
[2:08]And we had a really great time and even did like a pre festival VIP talk.
[2:13]So by the time this part of the conversation rolled around, we had already been chatting for
[2:17]quite some time. In fact, we ended up chatting for almost two hours, which is longer than I
[2:21]feel like I've spoken to anyone recently.
[2:23]So this is an excerpt from that event.
[2:26]Cameron Douglas has a career in both film and now in writing.
[2:31]And you'll hear more about what he's up to in his book.
[2:33]In terms of filmography, he was in Mr. Nice Guy.
[2:36]It runs in the family.
[2:37]National Lampoon's Adam and Eve loaded and the runner.
[2:40]And now is working on screenplays and other works having been incarcerated for almost a decade
[2:47]and having overcome a drug addiction that plagued his celebrity,
[2:50]strewn family, including Michael Douglas and Kirk Douglas.
[2:55]I hope you enjoy this interview.
[2:57]I had a really fun time getting to know Cameron.
[2:59]Hi, Cameron.
[3:00]Hi, Jimmy.
[3:02]I'm looking forward to our conversation.
[3:04]We got a little preview beforehand and all these people stole some of my questions,
[3:08]but I'll come up with some more because you're a pro.
[3:11]Okay, long way home, a memoir of fame, family, and redemption.
[3:17]You have been through so much in your life and you're younger than me.
[3:21]It's like unbelievable.
[3:23]Why did you decide to put it all into a book?
[3:26]Why write a book about this at all?
[3:28]Well, so I mean, the short answer, I'll give you the short answer first and then I'll elaborate
[3:34]a little bit.
[3:35]I think the short answer was to try to take some of these experiences that I've been through,
[3:40]some of them very painful, some of them lovely, and turn them into something useful for people.
[3:47]So that's the short answer.
[3:49]To be a little more long-winded at first, I didn't know it was my father that was really pushing
[3:57]me to write this book and I was confused about that because our family has always been very private,
[4:04]but it was helpful.
[4:06]It was out of love that he was pushing me to write this book and also out of the fact that he
[4:13]and the rest of my family felt that I had a story to tell and a story to share and that the
[4:19]expense of some of the privacy they felt that it was worthwhile.
[4:24]And yeah, it's been an interesting journey.
[4:27]It's been a long journey.
[4:28]I started writing the book before I came home in 2015, 2016.
[4:34]And it took about four years to write on and on.
[4:38]And I must say I learned a lot.
[4:40]I learned a lot about myself, which is important.
[4:43]I think to have insights like that when you've paid such a high price for your decisions.
[4:50]And you mentioned earlier that it was really your time in prison that allowed you to get in touch
[4:55]with your feelings.
[4:56]And I wanted just to hear a little more about how that happened.
[5:00]Like were you in prison one day and you asked for a notebook or how do you start writing,
[5:05]how did you start writing there?
[5:06]And how did you find the time and how much and how in control of your time even were you?
[5:11]So it started really when I was I was doing my first fairly long stretch in solitary confinement
[5:18]during, it was around 11 months and it was fairly early on in my show zone through prison.
[5:26]I had a really difficult time adjusting.
[5:30]My journey was very atypical.
[5:32]I started at a minimum security and I worked my way up to a high security and that's not the way
[5:39]it's supposed to work. It's supposed to go the other way.
[5:42]But as I said, I just I really had a difficult time settling and I was very angry at myself,
[5:49]which I think is understandable and I don't think I dealt with that very well.
[5:53]So as a result, I just made life even more difficult for myself.
[5:57]But I'd like to think that it was some of it was necessary.
[6:03]It's part of my journey and from where I'm sitting today,
[6:09]I probably wouldn't be here without a lot of those experiences.
[6:13]But so I was in solitary confinement and obviously you can imagine you're in there 23 hours a day,
[6:21]7, 23 hours a day, you get one hour or three times a week.
[6:25]So most days you're in there 24, 24, 7 and then on the days that you do come out for that hour,
[6:31]usually they'll come get you at around 4.30 in the morning and if you're on the east coast,
[6:35]they take you outside to a little cage and it's just freezing out there.
[6:39]So I opted to sleep, sleep in most of the time anyways.
[6:43]But I started journaling and it was just what I tried to do is I tried to set up a
[6:49]curriculum for myself. You know, they kind of keep my mind active and it made me feel like I
[6:53]was taking some of my freedom back. But the curriculum was reading and I read, you know, three books.
[7:02]I have a sort of self-help type of book that I'd read like a literary classic, you know,
[7:08]something you might read in an English-led class in college. And then I'd read and have like a
[7:13]betread like Game of Thrones or something like that. So I had that, I had my exercise,
[7:19]meditation, and then writing. And yeah, so I don't want to, I don't want to speak for too long,
[7:24]but that's where it started. I love the idea of you sitting, I mean, not love, but that
[7:29]comical vision of you in solitary confinement with a betread. It's like so,
[7:35]I guess that you would think. But that's, I mean, that's great. The literature could provide you
[7:39]with that outlet as it does. That's like some of the power of books to begin with and wear better
[7:44]to escape than when you literally can't. So it really is. And then, and then I'll just, I'll
[7:51]fully answer your question. So you have this book card that comes around, you know, a couple times a
[7:56]week. And I got this book off the card by this great American classic author Stephen Crane. And
[8:03]yeah, this was this book of short stories called the Red Badge of Courage. And they're all
[8:09]fantastic stories. The Red Badge of Courage in particular really sort of spoke to me and kind of,
[8:15]you know, gave me something that I think was, was necessary for me at that time.
[8:20]And I was so taken by his writing that I had, you know, I got in touch with my friend,
[8:23]get one phone call every three weeks. So I got on the phone and I asked, I forget who I said,
[8:29]look, find me some more books by this guy Stephen Crane. And I didn't realize he was a
[8:35]woman poet as well. So what came in the mail was all these books of poetry. And I was like,
[8:41]what am I going to do with this? You know, I'm not really, you know, I've always just fairly well
[8:44]educated, but I've never really connected with poetry. But I started, you know, reading them,
[8:50]it's been imagined as the time last year. And I was just for the first time, I really was
[8:57]taken by poetry and inspired by it. So I started playing around a little bit. And that's kind
[9:03]of where it started. Nice to have the little one. I was warning you that this good stage was
[9:10]going to end. Anyway, in your book, you talked in when you were younger about developing what
[9:15]your mom called the curly whirly is where you would like spin your hair around and your anxiety
[9:20]was clearly manifesting itself from an early age. Do you feel like some of your later behaviors
[9:25]your own way of coping with maybe an anxiety disorder that wasn't really treated or underlying
[9:31]things? Like, where do you think now that you're in a totally new place, you know, emotionally?
[9:36]Where did that all come from? And what would you do to sort of prevent this trajectory
[9:43]from happening to say your daughter? Yeah, you know, I've always felt especially,
[9:50]you know, as a child, and then as a teenager, I always felt sort of uncomfortable in my own skin.
[9:58]And I would do everything I—
[10:00]I could to not let onto that, you know, and I think I learned at a fairly early age that, you know, by getting high or getting buzzed, you know, I could find that it would allow me to feel comfortable, you know, and I think, you know, looking back on everything, you know, one thing that I really had a chance to take advantage of, but I didn't that I think would have been extremely helpful.
[10:30]Is therapy, you know, had I been a little more open and willing to talk to somebody as a teenager. I think maybe, you know, it would have been helpful. So that's something that I let anybody know anybody. I mean, I have, you know, I have friends that have kids that are struggling. I have, you know, I tell people that I care about, you know, to give it a chance because it's a big part of my life today. It just took me so long.
[10:58]It wasn't until, right, you know, until maybe six months before I was being released from prison. And remember one day saying myself, I think I'm ready to give therapy a chance.
[11:10]I followed through on that and it was, it is very, it's been very helpful.
[11:17]It was so funny that when you got out of prison, one of the things you realized you missed the most was going to the dentist. Who knew. Yeah. Yeah. Okay.
[11:25]Exactly. I mean, you know, I was, I was pretty fortunate with my dental situation in prison, but it's, it's funny.
[11:34]My partner, Vivian, who I live with and we have a daughter together. So we were just, I've known her for many years, but we were just kind of she reached out to me. She wrote me a letter and I wrote her a letter back and we hadn't seen each other in many, many years. And so
[11:49]Finally, when we got on the phone together and I had my busy privileges just spending for a long time. And finally, I was getting them back and been talking for about a year. You know, it was on the phone where they're, I said, look, just want to warn you.
[12:01]I only have three teeth left. You know what I mean? I said, so I don't, I feel a little self conscious about it. You know what I mean? It's, it's dead silence on the line for a second. And I started laughing.
[12:13]But that's, you know, it can be a bad place for your teeth.
[12:20]You wrote throughout the book about so many different losses. And I don't feel like you necessarily framed them as such, but they just kept popping up in one way or another, even your many essentially who I thought it was so funny that your dad had a bus boy and was like, he seems like a good nanny.
[12:38]And so, you know, he like takes care of you intimately for years, which is one method of, you know, recruiting babysitters. I have not tried yet. But now I'm going to open my mind to that.
[12:47]But even with him being like so close to you for so many years and then gets let go of and immediately disappears like that's a big loss.
[12:56]And like your, even your pet ferret getting eaten by your dog. I mean, these are like heartbreaking things, particularly that at that age in time of life.
[13:04]And then of course his life goes on and more things happen. What do you think those early losses like do you feel like they were as significant as I'm perhaps making them or less so or I know you wrote about them a lot.
[13:16]So clearly you found them to have some importance.
[13:19]Well, you know, yeah, walking is somebody that's this day, you know, I think about and, and you know, sometimes I even think I see him, you know, but you saw he was a huge part of my life.
[13:32]And that was, that was a, it was a difficult loss. And yeah, I think, you know, kids are sensitive.
[13:40]And, you know, in life, you know, things are going to happen.
[13:44]But, you know, when you're young, you need people to kind of help you through it. And if, you know, they may not be available.
[13:53]And I think, yeah, they do leave a little scar, you know, and you try to figure out a way to deal with it yourself and you don't maybe have all this sort of coping mechanisms at the time.
[14:04]But, again, you know, listen, life is, I mean, that's what it is, you know, it's full of loss and hardship. And that's what builds character.
[14:14]And, you know, we have, we have the decision to make choices as, as a result of these things that we go through and in some choices.
[14:22]I think are better than others, you know, so it's can't really blame and aren't walking in my fair.
[14:29]I would have liked to. Maybe we could talk about your family in case that played more of a role in some way.
[14:39]You know, you painted such a loving picture of your dad and your mom at times you had kind of a like inconsistent or you painted her as somebody inconsistent, I would say in her availability and emotional availability, physical presence, all of that.
[14:54]But you really made your dad seem like, you know, he wanted to compensate for having a famous father himself by being a great dad to you and making sure that you didn't feel the way he had felt.
[15:06]It's like this whole full circle thing and was really there for you and tried all these things when you did develop your drug addiction to help.
[15:14]I wonder, looking back, what do you think he could have done or your mom could have done to have prevented your addiction from spiraling in the way that it did or was it just once it started, there was sort of no way to really really look back in because you didn't really want it to stop.
[15:31]I mean, you know, quite frankly, I got to replace in my life where there's nothing that they could do. I, you know, it's interesting.
[15:41]With my father, you know, one of his bones, you know, that he has with my mother, my mother was so young when she had 19 or 20.
[15:50]And my father's career was kind of just getting going and it's a career that takes a lot of time, a lot of focus, a lot of attention.
[15:58]And so, you know, my father, you know, often felt like, you know, he had two kids that take care of you know, my mother and myself and my mother, you know, was so young and she, you know, she didn't like the business.
[16:14]And you know, she's, she's European and sort of came to the States and meant my father and and didn't like the business and, you know, was was was was angry and lonely as well, you know, and so, and she was still extremely young herself.
[16:27]So they had a lot of things going on.
[16:29]But I was always, you know, loved and well cared for, but maybe she didn't have, you know, the attention that I was that I was needing so that kind of forced me to sort of look elsewhere, you know, for that love and attention.
[16:45]And I guess, you know, starting as a younger teenager, I started finding finding that with with a group of people that were, you know, sort of rough around the edges.
[16:55]And that's not to say they're bad people or anything like that. It's just, you know, people that were sort of going down that road that would eventually lead to some submissions.
[17:07]And that sort of what happened, you know, I remember at one point in my life, I was, I was wondering to myself, you know, I can't believe if i'm not in prison, who are these people in prison, you know, was wrapped up in all these different things.
[17:22]But I was, I just wasn't physically there yet, you know, as well on my way and that's it, you know, if you're living that life and there's a place for you if you continue to live that way.
[17:32]So many moments where you just should not have survived the car crash like there were just so many the drug the seizures like it's like a miracle that we're even on a zoom call right now it's crazy.
[17:45]How, what do you attribute that to and do you do you feel like you have some sort of perspective on life having lived through all of this that like that perhaps others of us can't have or don't necessarily have having sort of cheated death so many times.
[18:02]So, fortunately, you know, I've been fortunate I have, you know, angels watching over me I've certainly not been careful with my life and often not valued it properly and maybe subconsciously there was, you know, there was some purpose behind that.
[18:21]You know, I guess that wasn't, you know, that wasn't to be, you know, my story I wasn't going to be the way that my story was was going to end, you know, whether I wanted it to or not.
[18:33]And so I sort of, I guess I like to think that I, you know, there's there's something that I have to to offer before it's all said and done.
[18:41]Obviously one thing you have to offer is your story which is going to help so many other people who are struggling if you know, hopefully they'll be reading it and get back on track or get what they need out of it.
[18:53]I mean that's it's an amazing gift when somebody shares their story so openly like that so that's that's awesome.
[18:59]I also talked about dealing with your dad's cancer diagnosis and treatment and how you felt about it and I was just wondering if you can share a little about that period of time and what it was like for you.
[19:10]So that was well so for those of you that haven't read read my book.
[19:15]I found out that he had cancer by one of the inmates that I was on the compound where he came up to me and he said, it came so started here by your dad.
[19:25]And so what are you talking about?
[19:26]I just, you know, I just saw him.
[19:28]He said, so what are you talking about?
[19:29]He said, I already asked cancer.
[19:31]And I don't think so.
[19:33]And then I, you know, a couple more steps than somebody else came up to me.
[19:37]You know, so I went in and got on the pay phone and tried to call him and he didn't answer so I called a friend of mine.
[19:46]And the first thing she said, you know, when she picked up the phone was, you know, so started here by your father.
[19:52]So I said, well, what's going on, what happened?
[19:55]And she told me that, you know, it came out in the press that he had stage four.
[20:00]throat cancer and so I sat with that for a little while and obviously you know
[20:05]tried to get in touch with him and when I finally did you know he felt bad he said
[20:09]you know that he didn't want me to worry but yeah I'll tell you it really gave
[20:14]me a real respect for what these cancer survivors go through because I saw him
[20:21]about three weeks before you know he started his treatments which was the
[20:27]radiation and the chemotherapy and you know he looked great he looked
[20:32]healthy out how he always does and then he came to visit me about a month and a
[20:36]half after his last treatment and it was just it was maybe three months or
[20:42]something like that and I've never seen a body change so drastically in such a
[20:48]short amount of time so it's a real it's a real fight you know and
[20:52]unfortunately you know he made it because one of the extremely unfortunate
[20:58]things about going away for so long is that the life goes on and and as a
[21:03]result you lose people and it happens a lot so you just you know you you
[21:09]hope that you know anyway I was hoping that I would make it home to see him
[21:15]and you know he got better long before I came home so I was scared well so
[21:22]what is your relationship like now do you feel like with your family do you
[21:26]feel like you've repaired any of the of the sort of rifts that may have
[21:31]occurred over time do you just feel like this still enormous support like
[21:35]what's it like now and how has it been with the book as an entrance into the
[21:40]family as well well you know ironically enough broadly enough you know
[21:44]everybody was really behind the book which was which was nice you know that's
[21:49]you know obviously that's important to me so so yeah that that may be
[21:54]easier but you know in terms of you know in my relationship with my mother and
[21:57]father are fantastic it's taken some time particularly with my father
[22:03]who's you know so many years I had been living in in a certain way and nobody
[22:10]knows that better than the people that are closest to you so to be living like
[22:14]that for so many years and then to go away to a place like prison and as I said
[22:21]I spent most of my time in higher security prisons which is a different
[22:25]reality in it of itself you know it's like who who is coming home you know
[22:30]and I mean and I think I was you know everybody was kind of protecting
[22:35]themselves a little bit or maybe even more than a little bit but you know it's
[22:39]just consistency you know and I did a lot of growing up while I was away
[22:44]I wish I was able to do that you know before having to go to that length but
[22:49]you know I mean I feel like I made the most of it you know if if that can be
[22:53]possible in a situation like that and so the consistency you know that I've
[22:57]shown since coming home and you know it's everything and we're in a great
[23:01]place that's great and tell me more about your current writing you had
[23:05]mentioned that you are working on screenplays that this book is being adapted
[23:10]tell me about all your exciting projects now yeah well it's nice you know
[23:16]things are really just kind of starting to come together and it was three
[23:21]years of kind of awkwardness and kind of trying to find my stride but then
[23:27]you know it just takes a little bit of time and and you know things start to
[23:31]come together so you know the acting is something I jumped right into and I
[23:35]just I finished filming my first feature length film in years in January of
[23:42]this year so the beginning of this year and I just finally saw a cut of it
[23:47]which is it looked good and it's been submitted to all the film festivals and
[23:51]stuff like that so see what happens with that and then I've been writing a
[23:55]lot you know during during this quarantine and it's been really been
[24:01]trying to I hate to say it's been great because I know it's been so hard and
[24:05]difficult for so many people but I really you know as somebody that's
[24:11]procrastinated a lot in life and wasted a lot of time I went into this
[24:17]quarantine with a mindset like you know I have these projects that I really
[24:21]want to accomplish and I feel like I did so so I finished my first screen
[24:25]play just a couple of weeks ago and you know I'm just kind of refining it a
[24:30]little bit or it's too long that's a I think a good problem to have at least
[24:34]initially and then the book long way home people have been interested in it
[24:39]and you know I teamed up with a production company called FabRique and this
[24:43]amazing writer showrunner named Tom Fontana and he's adapting it into an ongoing
[24:50]series which is which has been it's been exciting for me it's been great to
[24:55]work with these with these guys in particular Tom it's a great writer and it's
[25:00]nice because it's it's a fictionalized version of my story so it's based on my
[25:06]story but all the characters and it will be fictionalized and and of course
[25:12]that to make it an ongoing series you need some some wibble room it's been
[25:16]exciting it's been very exciting you have a chapter orange isn't the new
[25:21]black so this is gonna be like the counter you know show to that one or a
[25:25]companion season away yeah it's it looks like it's gonna be interesting so
[25:31]I'm excited to see what comes of that and how has it been this is a big
[25:36]question but what has it been like being a dad how does it feel to have a
[25:39]daughter and to have a whole new perspective on life as a parent what's that's
[25:44]and like for you it's been interesting in regards to my own mother and father
[25:48]it's been it's been nice for them I think in particular because it sort of
[25:54]balanced the playing field a little bit you know it's given me some insights
[25:58]into you know what they were dealing with and you know what what what a parent
[26:02]deals with but you know my daughter has is is is my biggest teacher you know
[26:08]she really is I've learned so much about myself and really grown as a human
[26:14]being since she's graced us with with her presence so it's pretty special as
[26:19]you know it's awesome yeah so what advice would you have to aspiring authors
[26:25]somebody who wants to write their story maybe it's not quite as dramatic as yours
[26:29]but wants to get it down wanted to help other people what would you say well
[26:33]nothing happens until you put the pen to paper you know or until you start
[26:37]you know banging away on the keyboard so you know I think that's that that's the
[26:41]first thing with with anything you know and even like with a screenplay you know
[26:46]been thinking about it for so long and kind of you know a screenplay is an art in and of itself
[26:52]and so you know it was you know let's say a little intimidated by it but you know it was just
[26:58]like you know starting to to buy final draft you know I mean you write the screenplay and just
[27:04]start start figuring it out and banging away and it comes you know and I think you know I don't
[27:10]think one writes with with the intention of you know making some you know some big bestseller
[27:16]you know I mean I guess that's great if that happens but you know you just you just write
[27:20]you know because you have something inside of you that you know that you that you want to share
[27:25]that needs to come out but but you got to get started so I think that's I think if you get started
[27:31]and it's something that's for you then you'll see that you'll go from there or if you get started
[27:38]and you're like no this is not for me then then you can move on to the next project you know
[27:43]screenwriting is not for me next yeah oh my gosh oh I also was wondering are you still friends
[27:52]in the book you mentioned there is a boy named John you were friends with and you filmed a movie
[27:56]together and your dad started to help and he was like well this production value has gone up a lot
[28:01]are you still friends with that guy I am he's one of my oldest friends he's he's actually a very
[28:09]successful producer now in his own right here in town and he's he's doing fantastic he's just had
[28:16]a little boy and he's married and there's about 15 minutes away from me so we we snuck a couple
[28:22]visits in during quarantine but you know really it's you know just kind of been keeping to ourselves
[28:28]like most people but looking forward to see my friends and everything but yeah we him and I have
[28:35]have also you know been through a lot we have a lot of funny stories together oh it's great
[28:40]well thanks for doing this thanks for doing this for the jcc and thanks for letting us seriously
[28:45]like into your home in the chaos that is having a child which I am very familiar with so
[28:53]we made it we did pretty good you know I thought it was going to sort of fall apart earlier but we did
[28:57]pretty good oh no it was great thank you thank you it was I had a lot of fun with you Zivi
[29:03]and I look forward to you know seeing somewhere down the road or staying in touch and thank you all
[29:08]for having me I appreciate it it's been really really a lot of fun and you guys tonight
[29:14]thanks so much to feritybrand for being my sponsor this week feritybrand.com and her code Zivi for
[29:21]25% off thanks for listening to this episode of moms don't have time to read books don't forget
[29:26]to follow me on instagram at zivi Owens and at moms don't have time to read books also sign
[29:31]up for my newsletter at zivi Owens.com and sign up for my virtual book club and meet lots of authors
[29:36]on zoom every other week thanks so much to steve and ryan at texture sound for the sound editing
[29:41]and thank you to morning moon productions for providing this fantastic intro and now trim music