Elizabeth Lesser, CASSANDRA SPEAKS
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[1:54]Elizabeth Lesser is the author of several best-selling books, including Broken Open.
[1:59]How difficult times can help us grow and marrow.
[2:02]Love, loss, and what matters most.
[2:04]Her newest book, Cassandra speaks.
[2:06]When women are the storytellers, the human story changes was recently released.
[2:11]She is the co-founder of Omega Institute, recognized internationally for its workshops and conferences in wellness, spirituality, creativity, and social change.
[2:19]She has given two popular TED talks and is one of Oprah Winfrey's Super Soul 100, a collection of 100 leaders who are using their voices and talent to elevate humanity.
[2:28]Welcome, Elizabeth.
[2:29]Thanks for coming on most of our time to read books.
[2:32]Thank you.
[2:33]You're welcome.
[2:35]So you're the author of Cassandra speaks, which I told you is amazing.
[2:38]Subtitle, when women are the storytellers, the human story changes.
[2:42]Could you please tell listeners what your book is about and what inspired you to write it?
[2:47]Sure. Well, in a way, I've been preparing to write the book my whole life.
[2:52]It's my fourth book and people often say, how long did a book take you to write?
[2:56]And I'd say, my whole life.
[2:58]This one, not the other ones.
[3:00]I'm the daughter of feminist mother and a domineering father, and I have three sisters, so four girls.
[3:08]And from my earliest age, I was like, what's going on here?
[3:13]How come men told the story and women's values and who we are, you know, don't also get expressed in our myths and our movies and our literature?
[3:25]I studied literature in college.
[3:27]I love books like you do.
[3:30]And it's not just that so many books that we consider the canon of Western literature are written by men.
[3:38]So many of them are about what men care about.
[3:43]And it's not that women also don't care about the hero's journey and adventure and war and sports and things like that.
[3:52]We also care about things like family and relationships and talking.
[4:00]And these get put into like women's literature as if that's a genre, as if women are a genre of writing.
[4:09]So I always wanted to explore what would have happened if women's storytelling had also been valued as much as men's?
[4:18]How would history have changed?
[4:20]So I go back into the old stories of Eve, Cassandra, Pandora, Hester, Prin, a lot of the old literature and newer movies.
[4:30]And I also explore the canon of power.
[4:35]Books about what is power like Machiavelli, the Prince, and Sansa.
[4:40]And how did we come to define power as what we do?
[4:45]And I also tell a lot of stories about my own life as a mother and a wife and a daughter because I'm primarily a memoirist.
[4:54]So I can't help but do that too.
[4:57]Well, I loved those parts.
[4:59]I mean, all of it was super interesting, but I found myself sort of like wanting to fast forward.
[5:03]So like, when's the next little snippet she's going to share about yourself, you know?
[5:07]I know, isn't that so? Like my first book many years ago was about how America was changing the way people did their spiritual searches, sort of the democratization and the diversifying of spirituality.
[5:23]It was primarily research, but I told a few of my own stories and people would always say, yeah, that was interesting, but I really liked your stories.
[5:31]So my next book was almost completely memoir because I think people see that's the point.
[5:36]People learn through stories.
[5:39]And so we've learned everything about humankind through stories written primarily by men.
[5:46]Not that there's anything wrong with male stories at all, but we've left a huge part about what it means to be human out of the human story.
[5:56]And you show how all the statues are of men and how everything is about war, how even our vocabulary, the way that we talk like no holds barred and all these things referred to things that have the meaning of power that isn't necessarily the best meaning of power from how you even had a balanced living power.
[6:16]Yeah, and how we can change it even with little things like the way we use our vocabulary. And I love how you started it off like tip towing down like to procrastinate in your going through your son's boxes and finding all his whole canon of literature downstairs where you start going through some of these books.
[6:33]Tell me what it was so clear in the book, but just tell people watching how when you were down there and going through the books you were like, is this can you even believe that it says this in the
[6:45]My youngest son went to a college called St. John's College. It's the great book school. It's an amazing school where every student reads the same 100 books over four years. That's all they do.
[7:02]The Greeks in ancient Greek and they study math through reading Pythagoras and no interpretation they just read the original texts and the students lovingly call it the dead white men's curriculum.
[7:18]And so whenever I'm trying to do something especially writing and maybe you can relate to this and all you writers out there can the way I procrastinate because writing is hard.
[7:29]Even if you've written a lot writing is hard.
[7:32]I procrastinate best by cleaning. I love to clean things closets, my car and the basement is particularly according to me not my husband disgusting in our house just tons of old boxes and everything.
[7:48]And I was about to start this new book and I thought, oh my god, I got to clean something big. So I went into the basement and I started going through boxes and one was a box of my younger son's college books.
[8:03]And that was the first box I opened and PS the last box. I just got completely caught up in the box. And so here I was about to start writing a book about women in power and stories.
[8:16]I started reading through these hundred books and they I felt so naive. I opened the first book. It was the Prince by Mackey Valley. Now, I doubt any of you have read the Prince maybe you have. I never had, but I certainly knew some of Mackey I knew his name and I knew you know he said something like the ends justify the means but that's about all I knew.
[8:43]But it was shocking some of these quotes about how you do power by by having making shorts people are either enemies or followers and then he said something like a leader should be feared more than loved.
[9:02]I was just like really why was I informed of this. And then I opened suns is the art of war same stuff about fear and love being for whips and and there I am in the basement. I'm actually sitting in an old rocking chair that I nursed my kids in in a dark basement reading these books about men and power thinking wow wow.
[9:28]They're actually is a primer for the abuse of power like why wasn't I informed of this and I took all those books upstairs and I made a deep study of the history and the pathetic way that we've reduced power down to either dominating or
[9:50]oppressing and all the new reforms were just women come into more power of vulnerability and inclusion.
[10:00]None of that's in the old doctrines of power, so true.
[10:05]And then, of course, you led a big retreat,
[10:07]which started off small and, as you say, in the book,
[10:09]grew and grew and grew, called Women in Power.
[10:12]And you have all these high-powered women
[10:14]coming and strut their stuff and do everything
[10:17]from getting people away from their phones
[10:19]to regroup to having great speakers.
[10:22]So tell us a little more about your women
[10:25]in power conference and how that came to be
[10:29]and what the goal of it is, especially vis-a-vis men
[10:32]in power and the sort of imbalance that exists today.
[10:36]Well, I'm the co-founder of an organization
[10:39]called Omega Institute, which is a conference
[10:42]and retreat center in Rhinebeck, New York.
[10:45]And I helped start it in my early 20s.
[10:48]So I've been at the same place for 40 years
[10:52]running this conference center.
[10:54]Even as I say it, I believe it, like what?
[10:57]I'm not telling the truth 40 years, but actually it is.
[11:00]And as such, I have organized hundreds of conferences
[11:04]over the years in everything from holistic health
[11:07]to poetry and sports, just because it's a holistic learning
[11:12]center, all sorts of ways that humans can learn and grow.
[11:16]And as a woman in power, I had been aware yet confused
[11:23]and scared about how I was learning the language
[11:27]of how to be a leader with all these men.
[11:31]And I was grateful for what I was learning, strategy
[11:35]and some form of holding my own and ways
[11:39]of being powerful that I was eager to learn.
[11:43]But my way of expressing, let's say I was in a leader
[11:47]in a meeting and I was emotional
[11:50]and it was making me want to cry.
[11:52]I would stuff that and try to be a guy among the guys,
[11:55]like locker room, put down or stoicism or whatever.
[12:00]And I felt I am losing a whole part of myself
[12:05]to be powerful.
[12:06]In many ways, I'm losing the best parts of myself,
[12:09]my empathy, my ability to listen and include my desire
[12:13]to empower people, as opposed to dominate people.
[12:16]I'm losing that part of myself.
[12:18]I don't want to lose that part of myself.
[12:20]What do I do?
[12:21]And I looked around, there's no one to help me.
[12:23]And I thought, I'm going to start at one conference.
[12:28]And the first conference I organized, I had Anita Hill
[12:31]and Eve Ansler, who wrote the The Giant of Monoliths.
[12:34]I just picked anybody I could who would be like,
[12:36]who are women doing power differently?
[12:39]I don't want just women who are out manning the men.
[12:45]I want women who are actually trying to bring
[12:47]to some of their best qualities into leadership,
[12:51]changing leadership from the inside out.
[12:53]Not that men, bad, women, good,
[12:56]but just like, look, the world's a mess.
[13:00]We need something new.
[13:01]Could women do it differently?
[13:04]So I brought these first conference in.
[13:07]And unbeknownst, I mean, usually I do one conference
[13:11]on a subject and that's it, but people were starving for it.
[13:15]Women were so hungry just to be in a room
[13:18]and to say things that we can't usually say.
[13:21]One thing we can't usually say is, I want power.
[13:25]Like, we're not supposed to want power.
[13:29]And, but I don't want that kind of power.
[13:32]I want a different kind.
[13:34]And, you know, 20 years later,
[13:36]the conference is still a vital, amazing gathering
[13:40]where we've brought women leaders from all over the world
[13:43]and every discipline and astronaut and artists and actors
[13:48]and also the women in the audience are so fantastic.
[13:54]So a lot of that informed to the book.
[13:56]A lot of the keynote addresses I've given informed
[14:00]my Cassandra book.
[14:01]I love when you were backstage at the TED Talk
[14:04]who are you with, Madeline Albright or something.
[14:06]And like you were all nervous about going out
[14:08]and giving your big talk and tell me more
[14:11]about that experience and how you found your way to lead
[14:16]and the way that you wish other people could lead.
[14:18]That was funny.
[14:21]I was giving a TED Talk and if you'd ever liked
[14:24]to actually almost have a heart attack,
[14:27]you can, you should give a TED Talk
[14:29]because I figured out a way to make every speaker
[14:33]incredibly nervous.
[14:35]And I was the three people who,
[14:38]the person who's about to go on
[14:40]in the next person, and the next person,
[14:42]all go in the green room at the same time.
[14:45]And so the person before me was this amazing speaker
[14:49]who actually founded an amazing organization
[14:52]called a call to men, which is helping men actually
[14:56]become more vulnerable.
[14:58]And then me, I was going to give my talk
[15:00]and Madeline Albright, who of course had been the secretary
[15:04]of state and brokered peace in Serbia.
[15:09]She was so nervous, she was so nervous.
[15:12]And you know, the reason I told that story
[15:16]is because as the founder of Omega,
[15:19]I've had a chance to meet so many powerful people,
[15:23]men and women and people often ask me,
[15:26]what's the best thing you've learned
[15:29]from being around all these people?
[15:31]And I would say that they're all scared children inside
[15:35]just like you and me.
[15:37]Like it doesn't matter what's on your resume.
[15:41]It doesn't matter.
[15:42]Everyone has that core, super strong dudes,
[15:47]women, athletes, it doesn't matter.
[15:50]We all have that part.
[15:52]We just all hide it from each other
[15:54]in different degrees of success.
[15:56]And that is a very helpful thing to remember
[16:00]as anyone wanting to do power differently
[16:04]that part of the skill to me of being a new kind of leader
[16:09]is finding that place in another person.
[16:12]And the best way to find it is to admit our own,
[16:15]you know, to be our vulnerable selves with each other.
[16:18]And I do believe that is something women
[16:22]have a little more skill at than men do.
[16:25]And it's what the world needs now.
[16:27]This is like validating my personal confessions
[16:32]on Instagram all the time.
[16:33]So you're making me feel better about that.
[16:36]Another part of why I think you told the story
[16:38]from the 10 talk was at the man who we've done
[16:40]before you talked about how one of the young people
[16:44]he had coached or mentored had said
[16:47]that should somebody tell him he's through like a girl,
[16:50]he would have been more than upset
[16:52]he would have been destroyed by that comment.
[16:55]And you were saying, what kind of gender roles do we have
[16:59]if being compared to a girl would make a boy feel
[17:04]destroyed inside when girls want to perhaps throw like boys
[17:08]or whatever else.
[17:09]And what does that say about what our genders
[17:13]are defined as these days?
[17:15]Yeah, you know, it's very interesting.
[17:18]I'm a grandmother now.
[17:19]And right before I signed on here to Instagram with you,
[17:23]I had picked up my eight year old grandson at school,
[17:28]you know, with COVID now he goes to school
[17:30]just two hours every morning.
[17:32]And it's crazy hard for parents like you just start working
[17:36]and suddenly have to go pick up your kid again.
[17:38]So I've been helping them.
[17:40]So I picked him up and he's eight.
[17:43]And he likes every now and then to wear dresses to school.
[17:47]And I'm thinking, this is so cool, this is so amazing
[17:53]that I mean, first of all, first often it's just like,
[17:56]is this okay?
[17:57]Is this okay that my little grandson wants to wear a dress?
[17:59]But it's so amazing what's going on now.
[18:02]I'm not saying it's easy for any of us
[18:04]is all of this kind of merges and melds and changes.
[18:08]But the fact that if a girl is called a tomboy
[18:13]and she feels good, you know, it's kind of cool
[18:16]to be called a tomboy, you know, yeah.
[18:19]But a boy is called a sissy or a mama's boy
[18:23]and that's an insult.
[18:25]What does that say about what men think about girls and women?
[18:31]I'm insulted if you compare me to a girl.
[18:35]But if a woman is compared to a dude, we feel cool.
[18:41]Unpack that, just think about it.
[18:44]And it goes all the way back to the ancient stories.
[18:47]So the fact that there's some fluidity now,
[18:51]how boys are playing, I can be strong kid, boy,
[18:55]and still like beautiful things.
[18:58]I'm so fascinated with this.
[19:01]Yeah, my son likes to wear all my daughters stuff.
[19:04]The dance, all her night gowns and whatever.
[19:07]Yeah, he wants to be hurt, right?
[19:09]She's so cool.
[19:10]Yeah, but it's nice that, you know,
[19:12]he doesn't have the type of school
[19:14]that would allow anything but like uniform, but whatever.
[19:17]But just like they can paint his nails
[19:19]and we can have like the greatest time
[19:20]and that's just the way it is.
[19:22]Fantastic.
[19:23]That's new and that's also not universal in other cultures
[19:27]and in houses down the street.
[19:29]We are still under the influence of a double standard
[19:34]of what it means to be a man
[19:37]and what it means to be a woman
[19:39]and what kind of values are seen as primary.
[19:44]And you illustrated that so well
[19:46]with your support group of the 9-Eleven survivors
[19:49]and how even though you were like, it's okay.
[19:52]You can all share.
[19:53]I'm here.
[19:54]Everyone's like, we're not doing that.
[19:56]No matter what you did, no matter how skilled
[19:58]you were at a listening feeling.
[20:00]within confessions and all the rest.
[20:02]The men were two sort of set in their trained ways
[20:06]to break through all that,
[20:07]to be able to share the trauma that they had been through.
[20:09]Tell me a little more about that.
[20:11]Yeah, well, I've been a teacher of mindfulness meditation
[20:14]for many years.
[20:16]And after 9-11, people who had that skill,
[20:19]many were asked to come and help first responders
[20:24]who were having trouble integrating what they had seen
[20:28]and experienced.
[20:29]And they were forced, if you can enforce mindfulness
[20:33]on someone that doesn't really work.
[20:34]But they had to take these courses.
[20:37]So they could learn better how to deal with their reactivity.
[20:42]Because when you're traumatized, your reactivity,
[20:45]you can get triggered very quickly.
[20:47]And so somebody gave money for first responders
[20:52]in New York City to take mindfulness classes,
[20:56]to learn how to take that pause before you react,
[21:00]which is what meditation is so good at teaching.
[21:04]So I was trying to teach mindfulness
[21:08]to wounded warriors, guys, all guys who had were firemen
[21:15]who had rushed into the buildings in 9-11.
[21:19]I loved these guys.
[21:20]And we had a wonderful, fun rapport.
[21:24]But as you say, every time I would have them,
[21:27]often when I teach meditation, I have people start just
[21:31]by put your hand here right now on your heart.
[21:34]And there's something very powerful just about that.
[21:39]Just stop, pause, and breathe.
[21:42]What's in there?
[21:44]What's in there?
[21:45]And there's varying degrees of some people
[21:49]but put their hand on their heart
[21:50]and I ask what's in there and they just start to weep.
[21:53]Because there's grief in there
[21:55]and we're not trained in grief.
[21:58]We've got this bizarre idea
[22:01]that you get one day off when your mother dies from work.
[22:05]Whereas in the old cultures,
[22:07]the women were black for a year.
[22:10]They'd walk through town and they'd get great respect.
[22:12]Oh, she lost someone.
[22:15]And but now you like get over it.
[22:18]It closure my least favorite word.
[22:20]And some people are afraid to go in there
[22:23]because if you go in there,
[22:24]uh-oh, what else is in there?
[22:25]I maybe would cry for a year and never stop.
[22:29]And some people are like feelings,
[22:31]wimp, get over it, you know?
[22:34]Like they're just gonna slow you down
[22:36]and confuse the matter.
[22:38]That's for the girls, you know, like that.
[22:40]Well, those guys were like that.
[22:43]I'm not going in there.
[22:44]I'm not talking about it.
[22:46]I'm supposed to get over it.
[22:47]And that's what Tony Porter,
[22:49]the guy who gave the TED Talk before me,
[22:51]he calls that the man box.
[22:53]And not only men are in the man box.
[22:56]We're, to some extent we've,
[22:58]we all suffer from patriarchy for lack of a better word.
[23:02]We've all been trained.
[23:03]And that's Cassandra's story.
[23:06]Cassandra tried to tell the truth of what was going on,
[23:09]but no one believed her because she was a hysteric.
[23:12]So we have this mixed up idea that if you feel deeply
[23:16]you're a hysteric and men don't wanna be hysterics.
[23:20]So they lose out on so much.
[23:23]Such depth of feeling and intimacy
[23:25]and all the juicy good things that are in here.
[23:28]So they're the strong and silent types.
[23:32]And I tried to help them feel that you could be soft
[23:38]and communicative.
[23:40]And that is also powerful and good and helpful.
[23:44]And it'll heal you.
[23:45]You'll actually get over what's bothering you quicker.
[23:49]And we made some progress.
[23:50]We made a little progress, but it's deep.
[23:54]It's deep inside of men and many women.
[23:58]So you think it's like too late?
[24:00]I mean, what about this new breed of female
[24:03]empathetic world changing leaders
[24:06]that nobody might be ready for?
[24:08]Like how does she walk into like you and your omegas do?
[24:11]Like how do you walk into a room full of men
[24:13]who aren't of the new mindset?
[24:15]How do you affect change when you're still
[24:17]a minority in that sense?
[24:19]Hard, but it's being done.
[24:22]I'm super hopeful.
[24:24]Even though it looks alarming at the top right now
[24:29]it looks like we have backslid back
[24:31]into the Neanderthal caves without naming names.
[24:35]But look at the women, the leaders
[24:39]who have handled COVID best in the world.
[24:42]They're women.
[24:43]They're Jacinda Arden in New Zealand.
[24:46]They're Angela Merkel in Germany.
[24:49]They're in Taiwan and Finland.
[24:51]I think the top seven countries who
[24:54]dealt the best, the least deaths, the least new infections
[24:58]are women and they're in power.
[25:02]And they're obviously doing something different
[25:05]because their countries are handling it different.
[25:08]And so in neuroscience they talk about for years
[25:13]you've heard the way humans deal with trauma and stress
[25:17]is flight or flight.
[25:20]Those are the only two ways.
[25:21]But there's been a lot of new studies done on women.
[25:25]And now they're calling it tend and befriend.
[25:30]So there's fight and flight, but there's other ways
[25:32]to deal with stress too.
[25:34]And women have millennia of dealing with it through tending.
[25:40]So there's a trauma you tend to the old,
[25:42]you tend to the children.
[25:44]And befriend, instead of making someone an enemy,
[25:48]hey, can we do this together?
[25:50]Can we all create a goal?
[25:52]We want to solve, we may have different opinions,
[25:55]but can we move together towards something?
[25:57]And this is how the COVID women leaders
[26:01]have been dealing with it by tending to the most vulnerable
[26:07]and befriending the different ideas of how you deal with it
[26:10]and trying to create a community as opposed to dividing people.
[26:16]And those studies, both the medical studies
[26:20]and the studies done sociologically in organizations
[26:24]about tend and be friend versus fight and flight
[26:27]are so fascinating.
[26:29]I really recommend people reading them.
[26:31]Interesting.
[26:32]I love that tend and be friend.
[26:34]Well, that I can do.
[26:36]That's come easy.
[26:37]On the writing side, can you tell me a little more
[26:39]about your process of writing the book?
[26:41]And then also, if you have advice for aspiring authors.
[26:44]You know, I'm the kind of writer.
[26:46]When I wrote my first book, I kept trying
[26:48]to be a different kind of writer.
[26:51]I kept trying to write what I think was Annie Lamont
[26:54]calls shitty first drafts, but I write sentence by sentence.
[26:59]Word by word.
[27:00]I can't leave a sentence until I love it.
[27:05]I can't write big, huge things and then go back.
[27:09]And it makes for an extremely slow and tedious writing
[27:13]process, and I'm not a very fast writer.
[27:16]I just work those sentences.
[27:18]I love words.
[27:20]I love language.
[27:21]And sort of the construction of a sentence
[27:24]tells me a lot of what the next sentence needs to be.
[27:28]So there's a poetic sense to my nonfiction
[27:33]that it's the way I do it.
[27:35]I've tried not to do it that way, because it's slow and torturous.
[27:39]But that's just the way I do it.
[27:42]And I keep telling myself, well, you're
[27:44]wrote a book.
[27:45]So I guess you can do it this way.
[27:47]And when I'm writing a book, I'm
[27:50]very, very disciplined.
[27:51]And other parts of my life really suffer.
[27:54]I, like my friends, don't understand me.
[27:57]I like disappear.
[27:58]And at the end of every book, I'm like,
[28:01]I am never doing that again.
[28:03]Why don't you do that again?
[28:05]And just last night, I'm lying in bed thinking,
[28:08]well, when this virtual book tour is over, what will I do?
[28:13]Well, I haven't book in my mind.
[28:15]I'm like, no, don't do it.
[28:19]Well, you clearly know what you're doing.
[28:21]And now I can't wait to go back and read your memoir.
[28:24]Now that I was just trying to pull out all the bits of you
[28:27]from this.
[28:28]So you really are a beautiful writer.
[28:30]And I really, I underlined so many things.
[28:33]And I don't for sure always say that.
[28:35]So I mean it.
[28:37]Thank you.
[28:38]Thanks so much.
[28:39]Any parting advice for aspiring authors?
[28:41]Well, I'm going to, I'm a nonfiction writer.
[28:45]And I did try to write a novel once.
[28:47]I think probably all nonfiction writers
[28:49]try to write a novel.
[28:51]And my agent, when I showed him the first, like,
[28:54]a couple of hundred pages, he said to me, well,
[28:58]your dialogue kind of sounds like a stilted civics lesson.
[29:04]And I was like, oh, oh my God.
[29:08]I put it in a drawer and it looked at it again.
[29:11]But so this is advice for nonfiction writers
[29:15]because I'm not a fiction writer.
[29:17]I just think people learn through stories.
[29:20]And the stories people mostly learn from
[29:24]are not this sweet and happy and kind of aren't
[29:28]isn't my life.
[29:29]So perfect stories.
[29:31]There are stories of like mistakes and really poor behavior
[29:37]and learning through just every day crap.
[29:43]And I end up telling those stories.
[29:45]I always say the book made me do it.
[29:47]People are like, oh, you're so brave.
[29:48]I'm like, no, the book made me do it.
[29:51]So I would just say, be brave about telling your own story
[29:56]because that's what we want you.
[29:59]We want you.
[30:00]I love that. That's great advice.
[30:02]Well, thank you so much.
[30:03]Thanks for having me be a part of your publication journey.
[30:07]I know you have so many notables in reviewing you and you had
[30:10]Daddy's Shriver and all these great people on your tour.
[30:14]So you're a great people.
[30:16]You're a great people.
[30:17]Thank you for teaching me how to do Instagram live.
[30:22]I learned I can't do it on my computer.
[30:24]I should have put that down. It's my fault.
[30:26]No, no, no, no.
[30:28]But now you've got the hang of it.
[30:29]You'll know how to do it from now on.
[30:30]No, I know now. Thank you.
[30:32]You're welcome.
[30:34]All right. Take care. Bye.
[30:36]Bye.
[30:38]Thanks again to today's sponsor SugarWish.
[30:41]Send a surprise SugarWish to somebody you love and check it out
[30:44]yourself, sugarwish.com.
[30:47]Thanks for listening to this episode of Moms Don't Have Time
[30:49]to Read Books.
[30:50]Don't forget to follow me on Instagram, at Zippy Owens,
[30:53]and at Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books.
[30:55]Also sign up for my newsletter at zippyowens.com
[30:58]and sign up for my virtual book club and meet lots of authors on Zoom every other week.
[31:02]Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan at Texturesound for the Sound Editing.
[31:06]And thank you to Morningmoon Productions for providing this fantastic intro and
[31:10]now trim music.