Tami Charles, ALL BECAUSE YOU MATTER
[0:08]Hi, I'm Zibi Owens, and you're listening to the award-winning podcast Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books.
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[1:35]Welcome to day five, our final day of the children's book last week.
[1:38]I hope you've enjoyed it and that you go back and listen to all of the episodes.
[1:42]For today, day five, our first episode is with Tammy Charles.
[1:46]She is a former teacher, a wannabe chef, and writes books for children and young adults.
[1:51]Her middle grade novel, like Vanessa, earned top 10 spots on the Indies,
[1:55]introduced, and spring kids next lists.
[1:58]Three start reviews and a junior library guild selection.
[2:01]Her recent titles include a humorous middle grade novel called Definitely Daphne,
[2:05]a picture book called Freedom Soup, and why a novel becoming Beatrice.
[2:09]When Tammy isn't writing, she can be found presenting at schools, both stateside and abroad.
[2:14]Her latest book is called All Because You Matter, and we had an Instagram Live event where we
[2:20]discussed this, a day before her pub day.
[2:23]Thanks for coming on mom's time to read books, the Instagram version, and eventually the podcast.
[2:28]Would you mind holding up your books and everybody can see it?
[2:31]All because you matter. So beautiful.
[2:36]And you had an amazing unboxing video with your son, which was just awesome.
[2:41]Would you mind telling everybody what your children's book is about?
[2:45]Absolutely. So All Because You Matter is really, it's the book of my heart.
[2:51]I wrote this book for my son, essentially. His name is Christopher, and he's 10 years old.
[2:57]And it's really a tribute to him and to all children, especially children from
[3:03]Black and Brown communities, marginalized communities, to really just remind them of all the ways
[3:10]that they matter to us and in the universe. So All Because You Matter, this is my book, baby.
[3:17]It's beautiful. Would you mind reopening two to maybe one to three pages or something?
[3:22]Absolutely. Absolutely. Yes. Okay. I'm going to read the first, like the intro.
[3:29]Yeah, yeah, exactly. They say that matter is all things that make up the universe.
[3:35]Energy stars space. If that's the case, then you, dear child, matter.
[3:43]Long before you took your place in this world, you were dreamed of, like a knapsack full of wishes,
[3:50]carried on the backs of your ancestors, as they created empires, pyramids, legacies,
[3:57]building, inventing, working beneath red hot suns and cold blue moons, thinking of you
[4:05]years ahead, because to them, you always matter. Oh, I mean, you're like a poet. Like, it's like
[4:14]poetry. Did you ever, did you start out writing poetry? Tell me, how did you get here? Where did
[4:20]you come from? Where were you born? Right. Like, let's back up. So I, I was born in New York, New
[4:28]Jersey. I'm not sure what state are you in actually? I'm in New York. New York, awesome. So you might
[4:35]have heard of New York, New Jersey. I was born in New York, New Jersey. I'm the daughter of a technician
[4:42]and a retired teacher, vice principal and principal at my school.
[4:49]Wow. When I was growing up, you know, in my elementary school, my mom was very, very key in
[4:56]developing my love of reading. And I loved books as a child and that kind of filtered into my adult
[5:03]life. But the one thing was like, for as much as I loved books, I didn't really think that I could
[5:08]be an author growing up because it wasn't something that like I saw. I didn't have access to,
[5:16]you know, books that featured positive depictions of kids of color. So I kind of thought I
[5:21]couldn't be an author. So I did the next best thing I became a teacher. And I did that for 14 years
[5:27]and it was wonderful. But I always had that, that hidden dream, you know, tucked in my back pocket
[5:33]that I really wanted to be an author. When I was teaching, when I began my career teaching,
[5:39]I started to notice that there were a lot more diverse books for kids today than what I was used
[5:48]to growing up. And my students and I, we would read these books and we would write stories together
[5:54]and they would say, Miss Charles, you should do this. Like you could be an author. So it's almost
[6:00]like my students gave me the green light to follow my childhood dream of becoming an author. So
[6:07]I did. And I got, you know, I got rejected along the way in the beginning. But I kept pushing and I kept
[6:13]pushing and eventually I was able to become published. And it's really been such an amazing journey
[6:21]for me. So that's that's where we are now. I no longer teach. I'm excited right full time.
[6:27]And, you know, it's, it's great. I became published in 2018. So I'm still like a baby with
[6:34]this book. But I'm loving it. And tell me about your first book. My very first book that published,
[6:41]it was called Like Vanessa. And that's a middle grade novel that I wrote about a 13 year old girl
[6:48]from Newark who enters, who shyly inserts her school's beauty pageant, even though the kids at school,
[6:54]there are some kids who think that she doesn't stand a chance. So that's called Like Vanessa.
[7:00]Love it. Well, this picture book that you just wrote is not only like lyrical and beautiful,
[7:06]but so important for the times they were in right now. I mean, did you just, when did you write this
[7:11]not that like it matters month to month? But like, when did you write it? It was as always in the
[7:17]works. Like give me the timing. And then let's talk about. Okay. So the timing is this. First of all,
[7:23]I want to say like this was the book that as a mom, like I didn't want to write because like
[7:30]the second I became a mom of this little boy, I just wanted to keep him small forever. And I wanted
[7:38]to keep him shielded from the cruelties of the world, some sad realities that have been going on
[7:44]in our communities, especially communities of color. I just, I didn't want him to even know
[7:49]about the bad stuff. But as time went on, I knew that my son would grow up and he would experience
[7:57]things. And maybe he himself would be put in situations where maybe he feels like he doesn't matter.
[8:03]So I knew that I had to write this story to have a starting point for conversation for those
[8:10]tough questions that I knew would eventually come. And they started coming like once he entered
[8:16]school and he learned things and he met friends of all kinds. But, you know, I remember one of
[8:23]the earliest questions was mommy, if Dr. King was such a good person, why did they hurt him?
[8:29]I mean, he was like five or six when he asked that. So I was like, okay, I can't avoid it anymore.
[8:35]I have to find a way to get real with him, right? Let him form his own opinion about things that
[8:43]have happened in our history. But all the while, reminding him of how much I love him.
[8:50]And so I kind of like put that off for years. My son is 10 years old. But in 2018, by this point,
[8:58]he was eight. And I had a dream one night and I literally dreamt of this book. I dreamt of all the
[9:05]words that never happens, by the way, at least for me. I dreamt of all the words I saw the art.
[9:12]I knew who did the art in my dream. And I woke up that morning and I wrote it really, really
[9:19]fast. I remember my husband was on a business trip and I called him and I read it to him over the
[9:23]phone. And he goes, you need to send that to your agent now. And I'm like, no, that's not how that
[9:30]works. I need time. I have to revise it. I have to workshop it. But, you know, I sent it to her
[9:36]that day. It was a Friday. I remember getting in the car to drive to the Boston book fest.
[9:43]And by the time I was in Hartford, Connecticut, I stopped for coffee. I got an email for my agent saying,
[9:50]we're going out with this on Monday. Let's go. And I think by either that same day or the next day,
[9:58]we already had an offer on the table.
[10:00]So this was like one of the fastest projects I've worked on, and it never works like that.
[10:06]Yeah.
[10:07]Oh my gosh. And now, I mean, so it's coming out in this time with the graduations tomorrow.
[10:15]So exciting. So first of all, how are you celebrating this? And second of all, how do you feel compared to 2018 when you had like a traditional release of a book to now?
[10:26]You know, this COVID is like keeping us apart. I can't take it any longer. I miss humans. I miss traditional gatherings for bookish events.
[10:38]But here we are. You know, we still, at least we have this. So I'm very thankful for this.
[10:44]But as far as tomorrow goes, you know, my son, that that is him on the cover.
[10:50]When he was eight years old, we did the, we did the cover. But my son told me, mom, this is my book.
[10:56]So I'm in charge tomorrow of our day. And he claims it's a surprise. But I think I know what we're doing. The book is in target, which is a big deal because I've never had people in target.
[11:11]So I believe we're going to target tomorrow. I think we're also going to Barnes and Noble because the book is there. It was selected as like one of the best books for October by Barnes and Noble.
[11:25]So we'll be going to those two places. And I'm hoping there are, there's going to be some kind of food involved.
[11:32]Yeah. So I think that's what we'll be doing. And then just coming home and having, you know, just a quiet, you know, little celebration at home.
[11:46]But he's in charge. It's a book.
[11:49]You set me. He asked you like, if he was getting paid for this book and you're like, yeah, with like record essentially.
[11:56]That kids a hustler. I tell you yesterday for the book launch. I had a book launch a virtual launch with books of wonder. And I didn't have to ride him to do it because he was really happy to do it.
[12:08]But you better believe that he said, so I don't have to do my chores today, right?
[12:15]So no, he didn't have to do his stores yesterday.
[12:18]So I love sort of the basic premise of the book, which is obviously like people of all kinds, shapes, sizes, colors, whatever.
[12:26]We all matter. And the people who came before you have sort of been working in the effort to make sure you have better lives, right, which is all generations to come.
[12:36]And so this word matter is so like of the moment with black lives matter. And yet in the book, you don't reference that at all.
[12:44]At least unless I missed it, but it wasn't in the introduction or it wasn't in the authors note.
[12:49]It didn't speak to that particular movement was that on purpose and did you choose the word on purpose or was it just happened to be that way like matter like in the end of the universe.
[12:59]So I think I did like a bit of a word play when you think of matter, right?
[13:06]You think of at least when I first heard the words in my mind, I thought of the universe and all the things in the universe, everything that makes up this universe, the sun and the stars and the moon and even grass, you know, and then thinking of that
[13:26]and positioning that with the fact that there's such there's been such an increase of injustices against people of color, particularly black people and my son now that he's getting older, he was seeing that and he had questions about it.
[13:44]So if you think about the universe and if you think about what has been going on in our country, I had to write it in a way where I let him know that there's been a place for you in this universe from the moment that it's that it was created.
[14:00]Of course, you matter, you matter because the people that came before you worked hard and they made it so that you could be here today and enjoy the fruits of their labor.
[14:12]Absolutely, you know, this is an homage to the belief that black lives matter, of course we do.
[14:20]If all lives matter, then we matter as well and I have to say that in order for all lives to matter, we have to really acknowledge the ones who feel that they don't and I know that there have been times where my son would see certain things and he would have questions about it.
[14:40]And I said, I have to let him know that he matters because that's my job as his mom to to pour love into him to let him know that as you navigate this world.
[14:53]You are carrying literally carrying on your backpack, the hopes and dreams of your ancestors and I think someone asked who illustrated the book Brian Collier is the artist of the book.
[15:05]And he did it so lovingly if you look throughout the art, he uses pedals ancestral pedals and within those pedals you see different parts of faces.
[15:16]You are the voices in the faces of our ancestors and they're whispering to our children, you matter, you mattered before you even got here.
[15:26]So don't forget it and and carry that with you as you navigate this world.
[15:32]I tried to do that in the most loving way.
[15:36]I didn't want to do it in a didactic way right because like you may see something in the text or in the art.
[15:44]That is totally different than what another person may see I wanted to write it in a way that opens up interpretation and conversation.
[15:53]And you hit the nail on the head at the end of the book there is a spread of all the people and all the people marching and and really amplifying the belief that our children matter so it's in there it's in the art.
[16:11]And it's if you kind of hear it out loud, you can hear it whispered in between the words so.
[16:17]It's so beautiful it's so it's so visual you can just.
[16:21]No, I don't know whispering in and.
[16:25]Yeah, it's in there and I really I want my son to know that and as I mentioned I'm a former teacher and I remember.
[16:35]this very look that look on the it's the same look of all children.
[16:42]It's a look of a student who looks at a teacher and says you say I matter.
[16:49]Okay, tell me more tell me more about that.
[16:53]So it's that look of longing it's a look of hope and I am really hoping to convey that to anyone who reads it.
[17:01]But particularly for those who need to hear it the most.
[17:06]So that's the magic of a successful book right it's like giving people that what they need that they didn't necessarily even know they needed it and then there is.
[17:17]And when you tell I'm telling you tell a child that they matter.
[17:23]There's a power in that something about that will lift them and catapult them forward in their future.
[17:31]I've seen it as a teacher I've seen it I have students right now who are.
[17:36]Oh my gosh I have students who are business owners now they're married with children.
[17:42]They own this and they travel here and there and I'm just looking back like wow.
[17:48]I have had students come to me and say Miss Charles because you told me this I knew that I could do this.
[17:55]So imagine the power that you have as an adult to just whisper those words in a child's ear.
[18:02]You matter.
[18:03]It's so important.
[18:04]It's great is important.
[18:05]I might.
[18:06]Can I steal that and use it on my own kids.
[18:08]Yeah, I know that I'm not your target audience but.
[18:12]You know what I love that Scholastic has done.
[18:15]They're really kind of billing this as an all ages picture book.
[18:20]And I love that someone just wrote can she give us a look at the artwork.
[18:24]I'll hold up a picture.
[18:26]This is one of my favorite images.
[18:28]You can see it.
[18:30]That is a child taking their first steps to their mom.
[18:36]And it's supposed to be my son you know one of one of my favorite memories is when he took his first steps.
[18:43]That's a moment that matters.
[18:45]You know and children have all these little moments in their life that mattered.
[18:50]And you know what a gift it is for us to be there and witness that.
[18:55]So it's been like such a great journey with this book and I really do think that any age.
[19:01]Anyone of any age can read this book and pull something out of it.
[19:04]I mean, listen, I'm 40 years old.
[19:06]I still need to be told that I'm that that I matter.
[19:10]You're saying that about how they're going to make it feel.
[19:12]I was like, make me feel good.
[19:15]Yeah, exactly.
[19:17]I have moments even now as a grown adult.
[19:20]Like I have moments where I feel a little less than.
[19:24]And so that kind of message is something that really any one of any age can benefit from.
[19:30]But I know first and foremost our children need to hear that.
[19:33]Are you going to learn like brand extensions?
[19:35]I could just see this as like a pillow on like this because your artwork is so gorgeous.
[19:39]You know or like a framed thing or you know, you matter like t-shirts.
[19:44]Like I feel like you need to blow it in.
[19:46]I want to show another picture.
[19:48]If you lift up the cover, check this out.
[19:51]I didn't even know this until recently.
[19:53]But oh my gosh.
[19:55]Wow.
[19:56]That's a powerful image.
[19:58]So that's my son with his eyes closed.
[20:00]And those lines, Ryan, recently explained why he chose to put those lines across his face.
[20:09]Those lines are paths.
[20:12]They're roads and rivers and they almost represent interconnectedness.
[20:18]That connection, the ties that bind us together.
[20:22]So I love that.
[20:23]I love what he did with the art.
[20:25]And if you even look around his face, you see the word matter just a little piece of it.
[20:32]Yep.
[20:33]And you see, here are all the people surrounding this child whispering to him marching for him, taking a stand for him all because he matters.
[20:45]So the art is spot on.
[20:47]I wish I could take credit for it.
[20:48]I can only take credit for that's my baby on the cover and in the book.
[20:53]The inspiration you wrote it, you can take credit for as much as you want.
[20:56]Yeah, there we go.
[20:58]Are you working on anything else now?
[21:00]I am.
[21:01]Let's see if I have it.
[21:03]Oh, I do.
[21:04]So I write books of all kinds and all ages.
[21:09]I write young adult novels, middle grade and picture books.
[21:12]I also write nonfiction.
[21:14]This book all because you matter publishes tomorrow with Scholastic.
[21:18]I'm really excited about that.
[21:19]But I actually have some more projects forthcoming with Scholastic.
[21:23]And my next book that's publishing with them is only young adult side.
[21:28]It is.
[21:29]This is a young adult novel.
[21:31]It's written in verse and it's called muted.
[21:34]So a little fun fact about myself.
[21:37]When I was a teenager slash early in my early 20s, I was in a singer group.
[21:44]And this was like in the late 90s where like the, the music industry was saturated with girl groups, girl R&B groups.
[21:53]And we tried really hard to make it.
[21:56]It didn't happen, but we did have some good times.
[21:59]But the music industry had and still has a bit of a me too moment.
[22:06]And I noticed that it's been like really increasing now full disclosure.
[22:12]My singing group, we came out on stage.
[22:15]Even though we did not, you know, get the record deal and the Grammys and all of that.
[22:20]We came out on the other side.
[22:22]Okay.
[22:23]But there are people who don't.
[22:26]So I wanted to explore that the dark side of the music industry and what it takes to fight back and get your power back.
[22:33]So muted tells the story of a 17 year old girl who does just that.
[22:39]Wow. And that comes out February 2nd.
[22:42]I feel like if I like spent a week in your house, I would like leave feeling so great about myself.
[22:47]I feel like everybody like gets this boost of you just sort of like infused confidence and power.
[22:56]I don't know. That's how I'm seeing it.
[22:59]I do see that. Thank you.
[23:01]So do you have any advice for aspiring authors?
[23:05]Yes, lots.
[23:07]First, first off, this is not easy.
[23:10]You got to go into that knowing it.
[23:12]I've had friends and family members along the way who probably thought it was.
[23:18]But after they've seen this years and years of the journey, they're like, Oh, this is harder than what I thought.
[23:25]is easy, but it's so worth it. It's so rewarding. If this is your dream, you just have to keep going.
[23:33]And my biggest piece of advice is put your blinders on, you know, just focus on whatever those writing goals are for yourself.
[23:43]Focus on those because it can be very tempting to see how other people are doing how other writers are doing and feel like, Oh, man, I'm not writing fast enough.
[23:54]My writing isn't good enough. Like, no, you have to put your blinders on. You could still clap for the other writers because there are so many writers that I admire and adore.
[24:03]But, you know, your process is your process and you have to celebrate every moment along your journey and just don't give up.
[24:11]Well, thank you. Thank you so much for coming on. I'm so excited to have caught you right before your big pub day and obviously you have so much more in store and with for defying all of your releases and I think this book will be a smash.
[24:26]It has all the elements.
[24:28]That's what we'll book.
[24:30]And we helped you.
[24:32]I think it's great. So thank you.
[24:37]Thanks for listening to day five of the children's book last and thank you for anybody who's listened to all of these episodes.
[24:44]I hope there are people out there who have heard them all because they're all fantastic. So this concludes the week of the children's book last and look forward to more awesome author interviews next week and every week thereafter until two notes.
[24:58]Thanks for tuning in. Bye.
[25:01]I hope you enjoyed today's episode. I know I enjoyed recording it.
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[25:31]Thanks for listening to this episode of Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books.
[25:34]Don't forget to follow me on Instagram at ziby Owens and at Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books.
[25:39]Also sign up for my newsletter at zibyowens.com and sign up for my virtual book club and meet lots of authors on Zoom every other week.
[25:46]Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan at Textures Sound for the Sound Editing and thank you to Morning Moon Productions for providing this fantastic intro and out trim music.