Eva Chen, ROXY THE LAST UNISAURUS REX
[0:08]Hi, I'm Zibi Owens, and you're listening to the award-winning podcast Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books.
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[0:32]Eastern Time until 3 p.m. and features half an hour of book club discussion followed by 30 minutes of Q&A with the author whose book we've just discussed.
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[1:34]The last author in my children's book last is Eva Chen. I'm saving the best for last because she is absolutely sensational and you will adore her when you hear this episode.
[1:44]Eva Chen is a New York City native who despises writing about herself and the third person in a biography.
[1:50]This is funny because I read like a zillion bios and that's just that makes me laugh.
[1:56]Anyway, she has worked as an editor and writer at Elle Teen Vogue Wall Street Journal magazine and Vogue China.
[2:01]She was the editor-in-chief of Shopping Tom Lucky and now flexes her shopping fashion muscles
[2:07]as the director of fashion partnerships at Instagram. She lives in Manhattan with her husband and two kids.
[2:13]Some of her books, by the way, are A is for awesome 23 iconic women who changed the world.
[2:19]Do you know Valentine and the magical shoes? June of Valentine and the fantastic fashion
[2:23]adventure? Three, two, one. Awesome. 20 fearless women who dared to be different.
[2:27]And now her latest book, which we're discussing today is Roxy, The Last Unisaurus Rex.
[2:33]Enjoy. Welcome, Eva. Thank you so much for coming on Moms. Don't Have Time to Read Books.
[2:37]Thank you. Thank you for having me. I am super in awe of your rainbow stacks.
[2:42]Thank you. Thank you. Yes, they're all over. This is my pride and joy.
[2:46]Yeah, I go all the way over mine. Great. You have like the dream state of like a library.
[2:52]Yes, I actually just on Instagram the other day. I posted I was like, I don't buy shoes.
[2:57]I buy books because you're like all about fashion. And I am not. I'm like, you know, that's not my
[3:02]strong suit, but books is like my addiction. The only thing you need to make that library even
[3:08]more perfect is a ladder like a beauty that these would know things with her arm, you know,
[3:13]the scene I'm talking about. Actually, growing up and still in my mother's apartment,
[3:18]she has like a library that's like kind of a marooning color and they have and she has a ladder.
[3:23]Yeah. In fact, it's not it actually does this weird thing where it like folds up,
[3:28]you know, like it's like an antique. I can't. So yeah, I don't know if I could go there.
[3:33]But I think you should just embrace the beauty and the beast life and get a library
[3:40]ladder that I truly dream of having like a floor to ceiling library with like a ladder,
[3:46]but with two very young children, three and five. It's not good to have ladders just hanging out.
[3:51]I have four children and my youngest is five. And he likes to climb up this chair and try to like
[3:57]grab books all the way stuff. When I'm on zoom. So yeah, yeah, my son does that too. Like I'll
[4:03]turn around and he will literally somehow be at the top of the books shelf, but there's no like
[4:07]climbing surfaces. You literally like spider man scales the books shelves and it's constantly
[4:13]stressful. I'm always like, where is he? Like what's going on? And one of the characters in my
[4:18]first book series, Juno Valentine is named Finn Valentine. And he's just like always getting to
[4:23]trouble and he was a little bit inspired by my three-year-old son, Tao. There's no lack of material
[4:28]when you have little kids. I feel like every day I'm like, this could be a book. That could be a
[4:32]a book. I really like a zoo. It's a constant like circus zoo. Like anything chaotic. It's 2020
[4:40]chaos. Yeah, chaos squared or something. So how did you? So you have had this whole fashion
[4:46]career. You were the editor in chief of Lucky, which is so cool. I love that bag. In fact,
[4:51]I went to some event once a while ago and they gave out these free lucky totes and I used it
[4:56]all the time. I had like pink letters on a white tote. This is like ages ago. Yeah, it was like
[5:01]lucky props. It was probably the event lucky shops. Yeah, I don't know what it would. What it was.
[5:06]But it, you know, sometimes a tote just like makes it into your rotation for whatever reason. It's
[5:10]like the perfect length or weight or something. Anyway, that was my bag for a long time. Wonderful.
[5:15]Yeah, I was at Lucky for two years and I was at a Maxine Colteen book before that, which is like
[5:21]the little sister version, like the woke little sister version of Vogue. I was there for about seven
[5:27]years. And I was at L Magazine before that. And now I've had Instagram working on the fashion team
[5:32]there. But really, yeah, it's kind of been this like weird path, you know, from, you know, I'm a
[5:38]first generation American. I liked my mom was always very fashionable, but I never thought I would
[5:44]end up working in fashion and now to work in a tech world. It's like, it's all been this kind of crazy
[5:50]adventure that I never would have predicted. It's like a very whiny path to where I am now
[5:54]writing children's books, which is like, like the dream and life. It's come true. I saw in one of
[6:00]your Instagram posts that you said, like, that's really what you wanted to do. Like, and that
[6:04]people were surprised by that. Like, all you really want to do is write children's books.
[6:07]Yeah, I remember when I left, I think it was Team Vogue that I left. And so that probably was like
[6:13]about seven years ago, Amy Asley was at her during chief then and she's not at her during chief
[6:18]of architectural digest. And it was Amy Asley. I did an interview with Anna Wintore, who was
[6:24]editorial director of Team Vogue, the editor-in-chief of Vogue. And remember both of them were like,
[6:29]oh, like, tell us about your experience. And like, where do you see yourself? What is like,
[6:33]your goal? What is like the dream? And I remember most people say something like,
[6:37]want to be a stylist or want to be a designer or I really want to be an artist, you know,
[6:42]or design, whatever it is. And I was like, I just really want to write children's books. It's like
[6:48]and they were both like, oh, we have not heard that one before. Yeah. So it's, I think it's because
[6:55]I grew up kind of feeling like, you know, as a child of immigrants, like in this kind of in-between
[7:02]state of like, you know, I'm living in America. I'm very proud to be an American. But, you know,
[7:07]I speak Chinese purely at home. Like English was not my first language and still is not my parents,
[7:12]you know, primary language. And there was the sense of feeling kind of like, I don't know
[7:17]where I fit in. I don't know where I belong. And I think that I always kind of turn two books
[7:22]as a place that like, you know, they didn't know my background. I just can fit into these worlds.
[7:28]And I read books probably like a lot of young ladies and now gentlemen read like the
[7:34]Ramona books were like, you know, they're really clearly like they just really informed a lot
[7:40]of my personality. I think and now as a mother, I remember reading those books and thinking like,
[7:45]this is like the perfect little girl. And I see those traits in my daughter around like,
[7:49]I love her spunkiness and grickiness and I think back it's like, my god, I like wished this. I
[7:54]wished for this. I wished for like a girl like Ramona quimby, you know. And, you know, I read books
[7:59]like the babysitter's club, which like, I think is I got a signed copy of babysitter, the babysitter's
[8:05]club like like Christie's great idea from Ann Martin. Around the time Netflix launched their series,
[8:10]I think they sent out like, you know, first editions because that would be like just way too much
[8:15]for me. But like my brain would explode. And when I got it, I was like, oh my god, like I can't believe
[8:21]like Ann Martin touched this. So I've always kind of been a book nerd. And so it's truly like,
[8:27]you know, what it's like, like working from home. It's like the constant interruptions and you're
[8:30]like, I just need so quiet. But it's truly a dream come true to be writing 12 year books. Sorry,
[8:36]Zibi, I literally talk and run on sentences. I talk a lot. So that's a whole point is getting
[8:41]to know you. That's like, if you weren't talking, this would be a very awkward conversation.
[8:46]I'm like, I'm interested in what you're saying. So don't worry about it. There's, I mean,
[8:50]this is great. I just want to hear. So Roxy, the last unisaurus is that was the last
[8:57]so amazing. Yeah. The last unisaurus racks. Yeah. It's like, it's my new baby. Very excited
[9:04]about Roxy adorable. I love it. I love the message and the illustrations and the whole thing.
[9:09]It's just so cute. But it does come again from this place. It was like feeling alone a little bit,
[9:14]like an outsider of sorts. Do you feel like that came from what you were just referring to?
[9:19]Like your first generation? Yeah. It was interesting because I don't Roxy when my daughter
[9:25]who is now five, almost six, she's always loved dinosaurs, like always gravitated towards dinosaurs
[9:31]and see dinosaurs on a one sea and like would be happy, plays for t-rexes and stethosauruses,
[9:37]always running into my room asking me like, you seem to try serotops and I'm like,
[9:41]I just stepped on it. It was three horns. That's uncomfortable on the feet. And so I really wrote
[9:46]Roxy because she had an incident with a friend who was like, well, don't you know that like
[9:51]girls don't like dinosaurs girls like, you know, princesses and unicorns. And she was like kind of
[9:56]crestfallen. She like it was kind of a cool old.
[10:00]your friend was like, you know, probably seven at the time.
[10:03]And she was like, is it true?
[10:05]Like, am I not supposed to like dinosaurs?
[10:07]I think I'm always supposed to like unicorns
[10:09]and she likes unicorns too,
[10:10]but like not like the passion she has for dinosaurs.
[10:13]And so that's how the idea of Roxy really came about.
[10:16]It was that like, you can like dinosaurs,
[10:18]you can like unicorns.
[10:20]You can like both.
[10:20]Why not make a dino-corn?
[10:22]Like a unicore of sprex.
[10:24]But it's interesting because when I announce the book,
[10:26]how will we must have been in March that I announced it?
[10:28]A lot of people kind of found different meanings
[10:32]that resonated with them.
[10:33]And so I had some, you know, followers reach out
[10:36]and they were like, you know, is this an allegory
[10:38]for being biracial?
[10:39]And I was like, could be.
[10:41]And then I had other followers say like,
[10:42]I'm the parent to a non-gender child.
[10:46]Like, and is Roxy about that?
[10:48]And I'm like, honestly like, okay, you know,
[10:51]like I think that's the magic of children's books
[10:53]is that people will read the children's books
[10:55]and they'll find what they need from it.
[10:58]It's very, you know, it's like in Harry Potter,
[11:00]the room of requirement, like, you know,
[11:02]where Harry and his friends can only find it
[11:04]when this room when they need it
[11:05]and it gives you what you need at the time.
[11:08]I think that's the thing with children's books.
[11:09]It's like, they should allow kids
[11:12]to kind of see themselves in a myriad of ways.
[11:15]And so, you know, it's Roxy is trying to figure out
[11:18]where she fits in.
[11:19]She doesn't fit in with the regular Triceratops,
[11:22]the Stegosaurus's and Triceratops don't want to hang
[11:24]with her.
[11:25]The Velociraptors just run away from her.
[11:28]And so it's about finding her place in the school
[11:30]and yes, Stegosaurus go to school.
[11:31]So like, it's kind of, I hope a story
[11:34]that a lot of little kids will take some comfort from
[11:37]but it's also like funny and weird
[11:39]and there are lots of pop culture references.
[11:41]Of course, there's like, I mean girls reference.
[11:43]Of course, there's like a Royal Tenant Moms reference
[11:45]because like, you gotta have like,
[11:47]those Easter eggs for the parents
[11:48]so that they're not like bored out their minds
[11:51]reading like, you know, the same books for the 6,000th time.
[11:55]Well, thank you for that.
[11:56]On behalf of all parents.
[11:59]And how did you tell me about the publication
[12:01]of your first children's book?
[12:02]Like, how did the whole journey begin?
[12:04]I know you wanted to do it.
[12:05]But like, when you sat down and did it the first time,
[12:07]tell me about that.
[12:08]Yeah.
[12:09]So I, when I was at Teen Vogue,
[12:11]a mutual friend introduced me to my now book agent, Kate.
[12:15]And the Kate was like, oh my gosh,
[12:17]I'd love for you to write it by with beauty editor
[12:19]at the time.
[12:20]So it's focusing on like skincare and beauty tips
[12:22]and self esteem and I wrote a lot about, you know,
[12:25]health issues for younger women.
[12:28]And so she was like,
[12:28]I really wanted to write a book that's like, you know,
[12:30]a biography and then also like tips on style and advice.
[12:34]And, you know, I was super behind on that.
[12:36]And every year it's actually at a calendar invite
[12:38]to remind me to be like, where's that book?
[12:40]And it's finally one day email terms, like, I had my book.
[12:43]I wrote it.
[12:44]And she was like, oh my god, thank you.
[12:46]And I was like, it's a children's book.
[12:47]And she was like, oh, not what I was expecting.
[12:51]And so that book was Juno Valentine
[12:53]in the magical shoes.
[12:54]It's about a little girl who loses her favorite pair of shoes.
[12:58]And then she travels through like time and space
[13:00]to find her shoes and encounters like icons
[13:03]from like Gloria Steinem, Anna Wintour,
[13:06]I hope you saw them.
[13:07]And so it's kind of like a fashion feminist fairy tale
[13:10]in a way.
[13:11]And so we have Juno Valentine, the magical shoes.
[13:13]The sequel to that is, you know,
[13:15]Valentine and the fantastic fashion adventure.
[13:17]And then I have two board books.
[13:18]The one is called Ace for Awesome.
[13:19]And the new one is called Three Two One Awesome.
[13:22]It's coming out on the same day as Roxie,
[13:24]which is like a little like did not expect to have books
[13:28]coming out on the same day.
[13:29]But I love these books.
[13:31]The board books have become, I've seen a lot of teachers
[13:34]kind of add them to their classrooms, which, you know,
[13:36]as I feel like that's the highest compliment as an author.
[13:39]But the new book has Meghan, Meghan, Elle,
[13:41]and Rihanna, and Greta Thunberg on the cover.
[13:43]And there's a lot of diversity in it
[13:45]from Trilafar and Teppel Grandin
[13:48]to Sonia Sotomayor.
[13:50]So Zaha Hadid and Sotomayor,
[13:52]and Sotomayor is in it and ate a lot of play.
[13:55]So we try to kind of have different women
[13:57]and their accomplishments.
[13:59]And, you know, a lot of people say,
[14:00]oh, it's a little girl's book.
[14:01]It's a great book to give little girls
[14:03]like people should buy it for their sons too.
[14:05]It's not just saying that because I'm an author
[14:06]and I want you to buy my books.
[14:08]But like, you know, I do think I went to an old girl's school
[14:11]as to you.
[14:12]And, you know, I do think there's this element
[14:14]of the earlier you're exposed to the accomplishments
[14:17]of women, like the better.
[14:19]And that shouldn't just be for girls
[14:20]and empowering girls.
[14:21]You want little boys to grow up knowing like,
[14:24]hey, like a woman can be an executive,
[14:26]a woman can be a Supreme Court justice.
[14:28]She can do many things.
[14:30]She can be an activist.
[14:31]She can be a pro soccer player.
[14:33]And it's just about exposure.
[14:35]Kids learn through osmosis.
[14:36]And they learn when, you know, you expose them to things.
[14:39]So yeah, I have strong feelings about this.
[14:42]No, it's true.
[14:42]I mean, kids should learn that anyone,
[14:44]like anybody who accomplishes something really cool
[14:47]should be celebrated and used as a role model man or woman.
[14:51]You know, in like, it shouldn't have to be that most,
[14:53]well, anyway, it's absolutely true, 100%.
[14:57]But it shouldn't have to be like, look, women can do it too.
[15:00]It should just be natural.
[15:01]Like, yeah, look, look at what these awesome women did.
[15:03]You know, I mean, like, you know, I feel like it's,
[15:05]you know, this year is obviously a really weird,
[15:08]stressful, dramatic, traumatizing.
[15:11]Let's throw in all the kind of alarming adjectives in there.
[15:15]It's been a really rough year.
[15:16]And, you know, normally around this time
[15:19]I'd be setting off on a book tour.
[15:20]I would be like for each of my books,
[15:22]I have like gone on 10 to, you know, 15 city book tours.
[15:27]And I go to these events and I really like you feed off
[15:30]the energy of these readings and all these young children
[15:34]and especially young girls.
[15:36]And, you know, seeing that they have seen themselves in a book.
[15:40]And, you know, I'm not doing that this year
[15:42]for obvious reasons, COVID.
[15:44]But, you know, I just think that hearing that message
[15:47]that you, I realized like on these book tours,
[15:49]honestly, that like, not every child hears that message
[15:53]that you can do, you should dream big.
[15:55]You should go after what you want.
[15:58]You can, you can achieve great things.
[16:01]And that's a luxury.
[16:02]I've been doing a lot of fundraising
[16:04]for public school teachers recently.
[16:06]And it's a cause it's really close to my heart.
[16:09]And I do hope these books kind of send that message
[16:12]to children even if they're not hearing it
[16:14]in their personal lives and in their own lives.
[16:16]Absolutely.
[16:17]By the way, I actually went to an event of yours
[16:20]for AS for Awesome at Bloomingdale's with Darcy Miller.
[16:23]I mean, I brought my girls to this event
[16:26]because I've known Darcy for a long time.
[16:28]In fact, she was also on this podcast.
[16:29]And I tried to get your book,
[16:32]but the line was so long.
[16:34]It was like around like through all the different aisles
[16:37]Bloomingdale's to like sign up and get your book.
[16:39]And I was like, who is that?
[16:41]Like what on earth?
[16:42]Oh, we're the line.
[16:44]So are awesome.
[16:45]What's signed up?
[16:46]Come on.
[16:47]Anyway, I really love signing books
[16:50]and writing messages.
[16:52]I didn't have a lot of books growing up.
[16:54]My parents always were very generous with books.
[16:57]But I didn't really have any sign books growing up.
[17:01]And now to me, I'm at the author.
[17:03]I don't know if you've read the story
[17:04]from Tasmagori series.
[17:06]It's like a great early reader chapter book for kids.
[17:09]My daughter loves them.
[17:10]And the author's name is Abby Hamland.
[17:12]And it was at this book store called Books of Wonder,
[17:14]which is like my local bookstore.
[17:16]It's like this gem of a bookstore
[17:18]in the flat-iron district.
[17:19]It's been written this.
[17:21]Yeah, so great.
[17:22]It's like been open for like 45 years
[17:24]and only children's books.
[17:25]And so I spent a lot of time there
[17:26]when it's researching my books.
[17:28]But also it's like it's this like magical meeting spot
[17:30]or authors.
[17:31]And so I bumped into the author
[17:33]during Tasmagori.
[17:34]And like I found a girl that's so hard.
[17:36]It was like so awkward.
[17:38]Oh my God, wait, wait, I have to come back.
[17:40]Like I took my daughter and she was like,
[17:42]oh yeah, it was like I love you.
[17:44]You're such a great writer.
[17:45]And anyway, she signed all the books.
[17:46]And it was just very special.
[17:48]Like to have something that the author touched
[17:51]and that is a special message for the child.
[17:54]I think that's like the best gift totally.
[17:56]I went to this Brooklyn Book Festival event
[17:59]for children's Brooklyn Book Festival last year.
[18:01]And like all these authors were there
[18:03]and my son had just gone to boarding school.
[18:05]And one of his favorite authors
[18:06]who now I'm blank and who wrote new kid
[18:08]who's like super famous.
[18:09]And I cannot believe I'm forgetting his name.
[18:13]Anyway, he was there.
[18:14]And I was like, hey, could you like sign a book?
[18:16]You're my son's favorite author right now.
[18:18]And just maybe even like could I video a message
[18:20]where you're like, don't be homesick.
[18:21]It's all good.
[18:22]And so he did.
[18:24]I know it was so funny.
[18:25]It was amazing.
[18:26]And yeah, whenever like Bastian Harrison came over
[18:29]and like drew a little monkey for my son.
[18:31]And I know I love all this stuff.
[18:33]I'm like so into it.
[18:34]I like how the coolest gig going here.
[18:36]I have to say if you have like a fan girl author syndrome
[18:40]as I do as well.
[18:41]This is like the greatest thing.
[18:43]I remember going to like BookCon or Book Expo,
[18:47]which for like the people listening is like Comic Con,
[18:50]but for books.
[18:50]And I met Jody Pico who has written as you know like
[18:55]just like rings of books.
[18:57]And I remember being like, oh my God, like how do you do it?
[19:00]And she's like so nice.
[19:01]And now we're like Instagram DM friends.
[19:03]But like it's always weird because I've had these like books
[19:07]in my homes, apartments, et cetera.
[19:10]Like and when you meet the person behind it,
[19:12]it's like almost mythical.
[19:14]Like I am more starstruck by I think authors
[19:18]and I am by you know actors and actresses and models.
[19:22]Like I'm so used to like meeting sounds like very like you know,
[19:27]I don't know like I don't even know what it sounds like.
[19:29]But it's like sounds like very used to like fashion
[19:33]and models and designers.
[19:35]But when I meet an author, I'm like, oh my God,
[19:37]it's Ross Chast, you know, her illustration.
[19:40]Oh, and I can't talk to her.
[19:43]No, no, like maybe we'll be like a doctor
[19:45]and I'm like I can't talk to her.
[19:47]Awkward and like I don't know what to say.
[19:50]And so I am often like that.
[19:52]I met the author of The Day of the Crayon's Quit,
[19:55]like you know, which has literally been in the New York Times
[19:58]for like since like 1882.
[20:00]It's founded like New York Times children's books list for like ever Oliver Jeffers
[20:04]is his name and I was like super like oh my god.
[20:06]And he's this like cool guy with like tattoos and like a beard and he's Irish.
[20:12]And I was like I did not know these things about you.
[20:14]So it's fun to put like a face to a name like on the spine.
[20:19]I could not agree more.
[20:20]Actually I'm interviewing him next week.
[20:22]Oh great.
[20:23]Yeah.
[20:24]We hear book birthday which is like not going to lie slightly daunting because it's like
[20:29]so my new book Roxy comes out the same day.
[20:32]I was like oh what did you just hear a book come out?
[20:34]And he was like October 6 and I was like hey my book is coming out the same day
[20:39]as literally like one of the most celebrated children's book authors like of this generation.
[20:44]And yeah I'm not sure enough that it's a competition not sure how little Roxy
[20:49]a little bit of Roxy has spirit.
[20:51]She has glitter coming out of her unicorn horn.
[20:54]She has a tutu so she has a lot of things going for her.
[20:58]I actually think it's a good thing because people if they're going to go get his books somewhere
[21:03]like let's say like your book will be out on the table.
[21:06]If people go to a bookstore right there like it will bring them to shopping for children's books
[21:10]at that moment maybe more than on a random day.
[21:12]You're your person.
[21:14]You're a mouth too.
[21:15]We'll see what happens.
[21:17]It was amazing but yeah I'm really I'm excited about this book and I think that
[21:22]she's like very sassy and I think that little kids will really like her.
[21:27]I actually have a two-book deal with finger and hand in house for children's books also.
[21:31]I have two coming in.
[21:32]Oh wow!
[21:33]I know.
[21:33]What are we?
[21:34]I'm like saying when?
[21:36]Not like forever probably sometime in 2021, 22.
[21:40]I've already written it.
[21:41]It's a series of that in a real name princess charming.
[21:44]Oh my god, I love that.
[21:46]Children's books.
[21:47]I did not realize when I was going into the process that it is like long and slow.
[21:52]You know people are like oh it's like a 32 page book.
[21:57]Why does it take so long?
[21:59]And it's like you have no idea.
[22:01]Like literally like I'm talking with my editor about like 2022.
[22:05]You know what also depends like if it's a picture book.
[22:07]Your sounds like a child's a picture book.
[22:09]A picture book.
[22:10]A picture book.
[22:11]A picture book.
[22:11]Okay.
[22:12]It takes longer than you expect and then all the details do you have the illustrator already
[22:16]is but she's working on something else.
[22:18]So you know, so yeah.
[22:20]You can't take a while and then right now because I'm sure by the time you're book
[22:25]publishes but like the COVID delays have been significant.
[22:29]I know for not not this book but the predecessor to 321 awesome is A is for awesome.
[22:35]Like A is for awesome was like I mean this is like everyone's dream problem right.
[22:40]But it was sold out nationally like literally like even Amazon was like out of stock.
[22:46]This has happened but it took a long time even to get more because of the delays and because
[22:51]of COVID and the factories and why not?
[22:53]Well sometimes being sold out makes it just you know on the top of everyone's list.
[22:57]So it's like like a hot handbag that you just want that because you can't get it back like
[23:03]black market black market for A is for awesome is starting.
[23:08]You know we're almost out of time but I just I have to add well two more things.
[23:11]One I wanted to know if you had advice for aspiring authors but I also have to just hear a little
[23:15]bit about what it's like being head of fashion at Instagram and what that even means that is such
[23:19]a cool job. Yeah okay advice for aspiring authors. Number one as I was saying earlier it's like
[23:26]it takes a lot it's longer and more complex than you think.
[23:30]For children's book authors I would try to write from the point of view of from two point of
[23:35]views like a six year old or seven year old that's hearing it or reading it themselves.
[23:40]And so it's the language complex enough that it's like not boring but also like easy enough that
[23:46]they can read themselves. And I remember with my first you know book I had the word cornucopia
[23:51]in it it was like a cornucopia of shoes. And my editor and I like tussled over it because I was like
[23:55]I love the word cornucopia. I want Ren my daughter to be like what's a cornucopia it's just like
[24:00]a funny word you know. And so we've like ended up keeping it in and it's like I love doing the
[24:04]reading and so reading it from the parents perspective too you know what pages are they going
[24:10]to like kind of you know open and it's going to be like a huge surprise. What kind of moments
[24:16]we'll have like the best emotions. It's like this one should like one should read a book in voices
[24:21]you know. And so like this spread in Roxy it's like can I tell you a secret get a little closer
[24:28]closer to close. Like I don't know if it's because I have two young kids but I literally read the
[24:33]books like Out Loud as I'm designing them. And I also approached like the children's book space
[24:39]probably in a little bit of an unconventional way where it's like I work very closely with our
[24:44]director to to design it just because because I came from a magazine background where I would say
[24:49]like oh move the caption three millimeters over and let's change like I'm not into this like type
[24:55]that we have on this like you know cover story can we do something that's like a Sarah you know.
[24:59]And so I think that it was an unconventional experience for the good people and
[25:04]million kids if I were on friends my publisher because they kind of were like most authors are a
[25:09]little bit more hands off but I just couldn't be because I was like even down to like the color of
[25:14]the sparkle like I looked at glitter swatches because I wanted something that would like reflect it a
[25:18]certain way and like the number of little glitter kind of stars come sparkles coming out of Roxy's
[25:24]horn. I was kind of like obsessed with and so aspiring authors when honestly this is like stolen
[25:30]advice but like Stephen King has an amazing book called On Writing and I tapped like kind of put a
[25:37]post-it note on one of the pages where he said that the first draft you write for yourself in the
[25:40]second draft you write for the reader and I think that's true as well so it's like just get that
[25:45]first draft out and then you go back and look at it from a different perspective of like the
[25:50]editor or the reader and then the second question was what's it like working at Instagram it's great
[25:56]except right now we don't have an office you know it's I've been worked from home since February
[26:01]because I was in Milan at Fashion Week in enclosed spaces with people who now confirmed are to be
[26:08]COVID super spreaders got a lot that got a lot of that and I came back from Milan I go to the shows
[26:14]or I used to go to the shows twice a year to like you know to manage to kind of build on the
[26:19]relationships that I have with whether it's an editor whether it's a model whether it's a stylist
[26:23]a designer or creative director you know and my role is basically to help these people story
[26:31]telling Instagram and figure out their strategy on Instagram and it's been five years there and now
[26:36]a lot of my job is based around a strategy of like what is next for fashion on Instagram and I very
[26:41]much think it's shopping on Instagram actually like there are some authors who are doing the way
[26:47]like people drop the new pair of off-white sneakers or like the new kind of hot new hoodie from
[26:54]the brand separate world agreements in doing this yet but like you know the way people drop clothing
[27:00]and do these limited edition launches people are doing that with books now on Instagram and so
[27:05]I remember a few months ago when we rolled out Instagram live shopping so that you could be live on
[27:10]Instagram and buying a book you know so there was there's these authors called the Compton
[27:17]Cowboys it's literally like these guys in Compton who created this like horseback riding
[27:22]movement and they kind of just ride around on horseback in Compton that you
[27:27]pointed out they have an amazing Instagram and it's meant to build like you know like a community
[27:32]it builds like soft confidence for the young people who are learning how to ride horses and it's
[27:37]awesome but they did this like lot Instagram live ride along where they were like horseback riding
[27:43]through Compton talking about their book and I was watching this and I was like it's just like
[27:49]brilliant because it's like you know as an author imagine doing an Instagram live and kind of
[27:54]talking through the details of like every book where I can say like oh you know like for this
[28:01]Fred it's a reference to mean girls and like in this book there's a there's a secret clue
[28:06]that's related to June of Valentine there's a picture of a shoe that we put in that is a shoe
[28:10]that we haven't June of Valentine but imagine being with a few dad while someone can just tap a
[28:15]button on Instagram and by the book at the same time it will probably only rolled out at a time
[28:20]here a book comes up I was so did I miss that that's a feature like I want to do that right away
[28:25]are you with you're with random house or her were Collins for the children's book paying
[28:29]when random house but I mean I want to do it when I do I do tons of Instagram lives with authors
[28:33]I had a whole like Instagram life series during the pandemic but I'd love to have them on and then
[28:37]be able to have them sell their book or you know I'd link to where you're not allowed but
[28:42]it's a work in progress so that's the key I spent a lot of time on right now just like dreaming up
[28:48]how will we like I don't know like about you but I am often on Instagram and I'm like oh my god I love
[28:54]the you know tote bag that Zivi's carrying like where's that tote bag from and like the current
[28:59]experience it's like you tap the tote bag and you're like okay she tagged the brand it's a brand
[29:04]it's brand cool cool cool KULE and I'm like oh it's so cute and then I'll tap it and then I'll
[29:10]go to there it's just like very like wine and so I think that what people really want is like
[29:15]to tap it and to see it tap it and just like buy it like I put if I see the pillow that you post
[29:20]on your Instagram in your library like just feel like who I love it and just like pick it up and buy
[29:24]it so that's what we're working on that's so cool but that's like a whole time job obviously and then
[29:31]like at night like you know right now working from home so if I had like a 15 minute break between
[29:36]like video conferences I run like the two blocks to books of wonder I grab a stack of books
[29:42]because I personalized there like literally three times a week and then I'll like run home with
[29:46]the stack of books and I'm like signing these books and then I like run back or I'll get them
[29:50]to my husband and be like go go and I spend nights kind of doing the the book stuff it's like
[29:56]I don't know as a mom like you learn to like kind of define
[30:00]your time very carefully. And I think that's how I've been able to write, I guess like six books
[30:06]working on a seventh, like by now, while having an extremely full-time job.
[30:11]Wow. Yeah. It's like giving what you said before. Did you say this before? Give a busy person
[30:15]something to do? Or no, somebody else said that. Or whatever. That is Russian, but it's true.
[30:20]Well, like, I actually would take that expression to another level and say, like, if you need
[30:24]something done, give it to a mom. You know, like, it's not even a busy person, give it to a mom,
[30:29]because literally the mom's going to be like, I don't have patience for this, like, boom, get it done.
[30:32]Or the mom will be like, that's not important. Like, we're not going to do that. I love that.
[30:37]It's so true. Yeah. It's like, do I need to label every, like, folder for my child's, like, zoom
[30:43]school? No. Are you kidding? I know. Well, someone asked me, and my Instagram someone was like,
[30:50]what are your top tips for organization of the child's work from home space? I'm like, dude,
[30:56]literally, like, box of crayons, some paper, and like, the laptop. Like, I am not good. Like,
[31:02]they were like, how do you color code the folders for her different assignments? I'm like,
[31:07]I'm not doing that. Sorry. No, not at all. No. It's like, as long as you do the assignments,
[31:12]it's all we need. Yeah. Maybe one giant binder for everything, if we're lucky. And I can find
[31:17]that. We went to the container store. Oh, shoot, my kids are younger, but like, we went to the container
[31:21]store. And they had these, like, baked bins and, like, neon colors. And I was like, you've got to choose
[31:27]a bit. It's like $2. And I was like, choose some stickers. And I was like, yes, school so exciting on the
[31:36]computer. It's so great on the computer. So yeah, it's like, you gotta drum up that excitement and
[31:42]hyped them up and stickers and a big pink tub. We'll, we'll do that. That'll do it. They'll do the
[31:48]the trick. Amazing. Well, thank you. This was so fun. And I really hope to meet you. I know we're
[31:54]both in the city here. So maybe when things get back to normal or something, we could take
[31:59]it off one day. One day, one day we shall meet in person. And maybe we'll even be four feet apart,
[32:05]not six feet apart. So they're there to dream. Yeah. They're exactly so nice to meet you.
[32:13]Roxie and best of luck with the lunch. And I hope this helps you.
[32:17]Anything requires, or as you embark on your own book journey, let me know. I'm happy to help you.
[32:21]Yeah. I really appreciate it. Okay. Have a great day. Bye.
[32:25]Thanks for listening to day five of the children's book last. And thank you for anybody who's
[32:30]listened to all of these episodes. I hope there are people out there who have heard them all because
[32:34]they're all fantastic. So this concludes the week of the children's book last and look forward to
[32:40]more awesome author interviews next week and every week thereafter until two notes. Thanks for tuning in.
[32:47]Bye.
[32:49]I hope you enjoyed today's episode. I know I enjoyed recording it. Don't forget to check out my new
[32:55]podcast. Moms don't have time to lose weight. Pretty soon. Moms won't have time to listen to
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[33:06]please request to join. It's for anyone who wants to feel body better in their body tomorrow
[33:11]than they do today. And it's a supportive group of like-minded souls who just need the community
[33:16]to achieve their goals. Moms don't have time to lose weight. Thanks for listening to this
[33:20]episode of Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books. Don't forget to follow me on Instagram at zebi Owens
[33:26]and at Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books. Also sign up for my newsletter at zebiowens.com
[33:30]and sign up for my virtual book club and meet lots of authors on Zoom every other week.
[33:35]Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan at Textures Sound for the Sound Editing. And thank you to
[33:39]Morning Moon Productions for providing this fantastic intro and outro music.