Kimberly Derting & Shelli Johannes, CECE LOVES SCIENCE
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[1:34]Welcome to the first day of the children's book blast. My second episode for day one is about the book Libby Love's Science, which is the next installation of the series started by Cece Love Science.
[1:48]The co-authors of this book are Shelley Johanas and Kimberly Derting. So I'll start with Shelley.
[1:54]Shelley is the co-author of six books in the Love's Science series, including Cece Love Science,
[2:00]the upcoming The Saurus, and How to Be a Unicorn. She's also the critically acclaimed author of
[2:05]teen novels and thrillers, written as SR Johanas, including the nature of Grace series,
[2:11]rewired, and on the bright side. She has a master's in marketing and worked in corporate America,
[2:17]and finally traded in her heels and suits for flip-flops and jeans to pursue her
[2:22]career in writing. She currently lives in Atlanta with her British husband,
[2:27]two kids, and many animals. Shelley's co-author, Kimberly Derting, is the author of the award-winning
[2:32]young adult The Body Finder series, The Pledge, Trilogy, and The Taking Trilogy. She's also co-authored
[2:39]the new picture book series, Cece Love Science, as we know. Her books have been translated into
[2:43]15 languages, and both The Body Finder and The Pledge were Yalsa Best Fiction for young adult
[2:49]selections. She lives in the Pacific Northwest. I hope you enjoy our conversation.
[2:53]Thanks so much for coming on moms. Don't have time to read books. I'm here at the author of
[2:57]Cece Love Science and Living Love Science, Kimberly Derting and Shelley Johanas.
[3:03]So welcome to my show. Thank you for having us. You were so nice to have sent me these. My kids
[3:09]lined all these up on the table yesterday, all the little cards of the different characters,
[3:14]and we had this whole game with all of them. So thanks for sending these two. And of course,
[3:19]we've been reading Cece Love Science since it came out. And then as I mentioned to one of you,
[3:23]sorry, I'm rambling here. I literally had just seen this in the bookstore and was so excited,
[3:28]and I had read it with my son. So when you reached out, I was like, this is perfect.
[3:31]Yeah, that was so weird. Yeah, it was just crazy.
[3:36]So tell me how the two of you came to collaborate in the first place and how you came up with
[3:41]the idea before the series. You want to go count? Sure. So Shelley and I have been
[3:47]critique partners for like 12 years. And we actually met online of all places back when blogging
[3:56]was still a big thing. And we both started in the young adult novels. So SCBWI held a summer
[4:04]conference every year in LA. And we were communicating via blog back and forth, you know, like
[4:11]one of us would post a blog and the other one would comment, you know, back and forth like that.
[4:17]And I think I had said I was going to go to the SCBWI summer conference. And all of a sudden I
[4:23]get an email saying from from Shelley saying, Hey, I have this really great idea. How would you
[4:30]feel about grooming together at this conference? And we had never met in person before. And I
[4:39]hope sure. And my husband says that's how date lines starts. We had kind of formed this friendship
[4:48]online. So we met in LA and instantly formed a connection. We really liked each other. And from there,
[4:55]we started critiquing each other's young adult novels. You know, for years we had become
[5:00]instant friends. We talked every day on the phone. Just fast friends. And so fast forward,
[5:08]Shelley had this idea. She says, I have this idea. My daughter, you can tell the
[5:14]tell the story Shelley about your daughter. Yeah. So my daughter was nine at the time in love science.
[5:19]And we were writing YA. So we had never written picture books at all. And I went to my daughter and
[5:25]was like, OK, are you ready for science camp this year? She was like, well, I don't know if I'm ready
[5:30]for science camp. You know, science is kind of for boys. And I was like, what? And she said, yeah,
[5:35]there's just every club I go into, every camp I go into, it's always boys. And it really bothered,
[5:42]I couldn't figure out my husband has a PhD in topography. And I love science. I mean, we,
[5:48]I volunteer at the zoo and we do a lot of conservative stuff, conservation stuff. And I couldn't
[5:55]figure out how she got that message. And it kind of scared me that someone could get a message
[6:00]like that outside of the house that we had not given. You know, I'm saying like, and it was such
[6:06]a strong message that she was deciding not to go to camp because of that message. And it scared
[6:13]me that someone could have that kind of voice in my childhood. So I immediately got this,
[6:18]this little girl came in my head and was just super sassy and was like, science is not for boys.
[6:23]Science is fun. Science is cool. And I just kind of thought, maybe I can write like a fancy
[6:29]Nancy for science was kind of be initial thought. And so I called Kim and told her the story and just
[6:35]how bothered I was. And she was like, you know, that's so weird. Because Abby said that too. And she
[6:39]loved science. And she kind of got out of it during school. And I said, well, I'm going to write it and
[6:43]I'll send it to you. So I wrote to kids. So when Kim and I critiqued, we just write back and forth and
[6:48]obviously just do little notes and just overviews. But for some reason this time, I would send it
[6:53]to her and it would come back like completely edited. And I was like, aren't you just taking
[6:57]some liberty? And we were kind of kidding back and forth. And it just couldn't, I couldn't find
[7:02]the voice and Kim's really, really good at voice. And so I was like, this is a really weird idea.
[7:08]Maybe not as weird as going to a hotel at a CBWI. But close, would you want to put a picture
[7:15]book with me? And she was like, oh, which because I would love to. I like totally love this
[7:19]picture book. I think it's a great idea. So that's kind of how it started. Maybe we went to our
[7:23]agent. So like, we're going to write a picture book and they were like, but your YA authors were
[7:27]like, yeah, yeah, we know, but we're going to write a picture book. And they were like, but your YA
[7:30]authors and you write thrillers and like, yeah, we're going to write a picture book. So we just
[7:35]started and just studied for a really long time. And I was kind of how it got started.
[7:41]Wow. So wait, tell me more about that. So what did you study and how did you learn how to do it?
[7:45]Yeah. I mean, at the time, there wasn't that much online. I mean, now Josh Funk has a great
[7:49]long, but we just went through articles and studied picture books and tried to map out picture
[7:56]books and how the arcs were for stories. Kim, do you remember if we had one friend who had just sold
[8:04]a picture book to Harper Collins and we went to her and said, what format do you use? And she kind
[8:11]of gave us the layout of how a picture book is the spreads are. And she was really helpful. We
[8:17]had another friend who was agenting and she kind of went through some picture books with us and
[8:21]showed us, you know, kind of some news and doubts. And so we kind of reached out to people we knew
[8:26]who were in the industry and said, give us some ideas of what works and what doesn't work. So
[8:32]the internet was really helpful, but it was also helpful to make some personal connections with
[8:36]people and say, what is working and what isn't working. And there's a lot of what doesn't work.
[8:42]And there really isn't a right way to do it because, you know, there are so many different kinds
[8:46]of books. But one of the things we really did wrong is we didn't understand word count at all.
[8:52]So our first draft was, I mean, our first book, CC Love Sciences probably over the word count
[8:58]anyway. But our first draft was like maybe 3000 words, which is humongous in picture book terms.
[9:05]And so our agents kept like going, you need to cut, you need to cut. And we had so many
[9:09]art notes for the illustrator, which illustrators like to, you know, they want to have creative
[9:14]license to use their imagination. And they should because they're so good at it. They're so talented
[9:20]and they have so much more imagination than we possibly could ever have. And we had so many notes
[9:26]like down to what they should be, what CC should be wearing in the book. And we're not illustrators.
[9:31]We should have cut all of that out. And that was Robin Mellon, right? Yeah, Robin. The illustrator,
[9:38]we are the author we've gone to to ask for help. So they both of our agents tried the same agency.
[9:43]So when we say our agents, we just mean one, it's our friends too. We call them a runner,
[9:48]we kind of put them together. And like, it's what when we call them,
[9:50]work in rankings. It's like, we're going to call our runners. We kind of give them their
[9:55]Hollywood name. Because they both emailed the same time. But and then
[10:00]Debbie was kind of like when we talked over email,
[10:02]the person who ended up taking our book at Harper,
[10:05]Virginia Duncan at Green Willow,
[10:07]her daughter had said the same thing.
[10:09]So I think it was just that kind of moment
[10:12]where I don't know, just stars align
[10:15]and you kind of, something just kind of clicks
[10:17]or there's some kind of connection that just accidentally
[10:19]happens.
[10:20]And so I think she clicked with that
[10:21]because her daughter was the same age as my daughter
[10:24]at the time and her daughter had said the exact same thing
[10:26]to her in recent months.
[10:27]So she was thinking this is obviously a problem.
[10:30]So, wow.
[10:32]How great to just identify a problem
[10:34]and then just go ahead and solve it.
[10:35]Like, this is how we're addressing it right now.
[10:38]Boom, I'm done, here's my book.
[10:39]It's great.
[10:41]Why wait for someone else, you know?
[10:42]When you come out and fix that yourself, that's fantastic.
[10:45]Yeah, it might, when my daughter got home from school
[10:47]and we had this stuff waiting,
[10:48]I was like, well, what was your special today at school?
[10:50]And now they're actually in school again,
[10:51]which is like a miracle.
[10:52]And she's like, well, actually, it was science.
[10:55]And then she just like held up the book
[10:56]and was like, oh, that's great.
[10:58]So, you know, she's only seven.
[11:01]So maybe, you know, by just starting with earlier kids,
[11:04]it will help.
[11:05]Right.
[11:06]Do you have a lot of people who are gonna love science?
[11:08]Like, this is a whole series with like 50 kids
[11:10]or what's your plan with the series?
[11:13]Yes, Virginia, this is a series for 50 kids.
[11:16]Yeah.
[11:17]No, yes, we have six books and we have another,
[11:21]we have the ICR coming out in February for Libby.
[11:23]So Libby's I can read,
[11:25]because the CC I can read out.
[11:27]And then we have Vivi Love Science.
[11:30]Yep.
[11:30]And then we have Vivi Love Science,
[11:31]which comes out next summer.
[11:32]Beyond that.
[11:33]So there's six books right now in the series.
[11:36]The third character is Vivi.
[11:37]And she is little marine biologist.
[11:40]So she'll be going down to the sea shore
[11:42]and exploring marine life and the ocean.
[11:45]And so each character kind of has their little specialty,
[11:49]which is Libby's is chemistry, obviously.
[11:52]And what we like to do is include little experiments
[11:55]or things that kids can do at home.
[11:58]So especially, I kind of like it,
[12:01]especially timely now with parents kind of on the front line
[12:04]of with educators, a lot of parents at home,
[12:08]trying to keep their kids busy and engaged.
[12:11]And so it's nice to have those kind of interactive things
[12:14]that they can do at home.
[12:15]Yes.
[12:16]That's a mother of four, I will agree.
[12:18]Right.
[12:20]I think we were thinking about starting
[12:22]to go out and do more virtual school visits
[12:25]to actually see if there was a way to see
[12:29]if we could do experiments over Zoom.
[12:32]So could we have them do the ice cream?
[12:34]Because it's very simple to do that and kind of
[12:36]leave them through that process while we read the book
[12:39]and have it be a little bit more hands-on.
[12:40]So I think picture books right now
[12:43]are a great way to supplement and have it be fun at home.
[12:46]Because it's hard right now.
[12:48]I've got kids at home and it is hard to keep it fun.
[12:50]My kids are older, but I mean,
[12:53]they're struggling to stay engaged.
[12:55]I think is the hardest thing.
[12:56]How old are your kids?
[12:58]Thirteen and sixteen.
[12:59]Okay.
[13:00]Yeah.
[13:01]How about you?
[13:02]Older, they're out of the house or they're old.
[13:04]My youngest is 19.
[13:05]She just came back from college when COVID hit.
[13:08]But my grandkids are six and three.
[13:11]And so my daughter is struggling with that.
[13:14]So while my six year or six year old grandson is online,
[13:17]I bring my three year old granddaughter over here
[13:19]and we do preschool.
[13:21]So I'm teaching her her letters and numbers
[13:25]and just to kind of keep her out of my daughter's hair
[13:30]while not to say out of her hair,
[13:32]but to kind of keep her out of the way
[13:34]while she's trying to keep my grandson
[13:37]on online on school.
[13:39]Because they're still in virtual.
[13:41]My goal now is to try to look more like you
[13:43]when I'm a grandmother.
[13:45]I would never think you had grandchildren ever.
[13:48]But wow, that's awesome.
[13:50]Tell me about working with the illustrator.
[13:51]You gave her all these notes.
[13:53]And then did she hate you?
[13:55]I mean, what was it like?
[13:57]We took them out.
[13:58]Yeah.
[13:59]You took them all out.
[14:00]I mean, Vosci did not need any art notes, right?
[14:03]I mean, that's amazing.
[14:04]So we took them out just so that the illustrator
[14:07]could have creative liberty and just kind of make CC
[14:13]who she was.
[14:14]And we love her.
[14:15]Joelle Murray is the new illustrator for Libby and Vivi.
[14:20]Vosci is so amazing.
[14:21]She got super booked and Virginia really wanted to have
[14:25]the books come out a lot faster.
[14:26]So we actually found Joelle on Instagram.
[14:29]So she seemed to have a similar style
[14:33]and she's amazing as well.
[14:35]But we didn't give any notes.
[14:37]I mean, that's what's hard about picture books is it's
[14:40]really all these people.
[14:42]There's no book that's just one author, right?
[14:44]There's all these people that play into it.
[14:46]And illustrators are half of that.
[14:48]And can I just say, we have been so fortunate in illustration
[14:53]because I mean, we, it took picture books
[14:57]takes so much longer than a novel to produce
[15:00]because it's pairing our editor to, I mean,
[15:04]she probably took a year to find the right illustrator
[15:07]for CC Love Science.
[15:09]And she searched far and wide.
[15:11]And when she came to us, we had a vision of who CC was
[15:15]going to be.
[15:16]And we had, like I said, we had a million art notes.
[15:19]And we had stripped all those out.
[15:21]So it's like handing your baby over to somebody
[15:24]and saying, now make it come to life.
[15:26]And so when we got the first sketches of,
[15:29]and Vashti Harrison, if nobody knows who she is,
[15:32]you have to look for it, she is absolutely brilliant.
[15:35]And so when we got the first sketches,
[15:37]Shelley and I opened them together over Skype.
[15:40]And we, I mean, I think both of us started to cry a little
[15:43]because it was CC was almost exactly who we pictured.
[15:47]And Vashti brought her to life so brilliantly.
[15:50]And so we had, we just felt so blessed to work with Vashti.
[15:54]And so, and then when Joelle came on board,
[15:57]she complimented the series so beautifully.
[16:00]I mean, it was just such a lovely pairing.
[16:04]And I just, I think you can,
[16:05]an illustrator can make or break a book.
[16:08]I mean, I really do.
[16:09]Kids are so visual.
[16:10]I mean, almost more so than adults.
[16:12]And everybody's visual, but kids, children,
[16:15]you know, you say don't judge a book by a cover,
[16:17]but how do you not?
[16:18]And those characters can just bring a story to life
[16:22]and we've just been so fortunate.
[16:24]So we were so upset when Vashti couldn't, you know,
[16:26]obviously because we had built three books together.
[16:28]And when Virginia said, you know, Vashti can't sign on,
[16:32]we were just thinking, oh my gosh,
[16:34]how are we gonna find someone that can step into those shoes
[16:38]when we started in 2015,
[16:40]little, little leaders hadn't come out yet.
[16:42]So it was so new, she was so new.
[16:45]And she grew so fast because bold little leaders
[16:49]was so amazing.
[16:50]And we were so nervous.
[16:52]And then when we found Joelle, it just was exactly the same.
[16:56]We were just so grateful that she could step in
[16:59]and make it so seamless and just colorful.
[17:03]And I don't know, it was just we were really lucky.
[17:06]Cause, you know, starting in the middle of a series
[17:09]is really hard to find someone that can feel
[17:12]or even come close to feeling Vashti's shoes, right?
[17:14]And I think Joelle does a great job.
[17:15]That's great.
[17:16]Yeah, Vashti, as you know, is on this podcast
[17:18]to talk about those books.
[17:19]And she came to my book fair.
[17:21]And then I had her at a book club recently.
[17:23]And she's amazing.
[17:25]It was so sweet when she was here.
[17:26]She drew like a little picture of a monkey in my son's name.
[17:29]And I'm like, I think, I don't think he knows
[17:31]how precious that is.
[17:33]I'm like, this is so amazing.
[17:35]You all appreciate this as you get older.
[17:38]No, but I'm such a huge fan of Vashti's and, but you're right.
[17:41]I mean, even if just holding them side by side,
[17:43]you wouldn't even necessarily know.
[17:44]I mean, I mean, they certainly look complimentary as you know.
[17:47]Yeah.
[17:48]And there are direct,
[17:49]the art direction obviously at Harvard did a great job
[17:51]of doing that, but it definitely was, you know,
[17:54]a nervous time to make that transition.
[17:56]But it worked out really well.
[17:58]And do you already have plans or maybe you have this?
[18:00]And I just didn't know to do like CC Love Science kits
[18:04]or like kits you can buy or like subscription boxes
[18:07]or something to like bring that science experiment
[18:10]into the home even more.
[18:12]I mean, we would help that.
[18:13]But that's a great idea.
[18:15]CC has been included in some subscription book boxes already.
[18:20]Jambo books, I think just for September.
[18:22]And I can't remember the other one.
[18:24]I should know this off the top of my head.
[18:26]But a science kit would be super fun.
[18:29]So you should team up with,
[18:30]I can introduce you if you want.
[18:31]If I can find the email,
[18:32]there's a company called KiwiCrate,
[18:34]which we subscribe to in each month.
[18:35]They, yeah.
[18:37]So you should do like a CC Love Science branded,
[18:40]at least kit, right?
[18:41]I'm getting a little bit.
[18:42]So great.
[18:43]Great.
[18:44]I mean, that wouldn't even be hard.
[18:45]You could just like include out some of this stuff.
[18:47]And that could be the craft.
[18:49]Well, that's a great idea.
[18:50]Or foodsters also has a box.
[18:53]I don't know if you follow them with
[18:54]fantastic baking and cooking crafts for kids.
[18:58]And so you could do the ice cream, maybe in that.
[19:01]And the list of science I can read
[19:02]is mix and measure its baking.
[19:04]So that would be super fun.
[19:05]Yeah.
[19:06]I mean, it's very similar.
[19:07]So you should,
[19:08]anyway, that's your assignment for today.
[19:10]Yeah.
[19:11]Thank you.
[19:11]And now there's a site coming up with a sign of ourselves
[19:14]and talking is signed in so,
[19:16]but talking about the future where it could go.
[19:19]Well, I feel like this is such a natural thing.
[19:20]And those boxes already exist.
[19:22]And I feel like people are more,
[19:24]I mean, I know we rip open our boxes
[19:27]because we're so in need of stuff
[19:29]and instead of having to scrunch for materials,
[19:31]it's all right there.
[19:32]So yeah, that's a great idea.
[19:34]And thought about the subscription boxes
[19:36]that going to them ourselves.
[19:37]The boxes are so fun though.
[19:39]I love, I'm a subscription box junkie like I do.
[19:43]I love the book boxes.
[19:45]I get the bad fit fun box.
[19:47]And I love to have it fun.
[19:50]I don't have that box.
[19:51]Maybe I have to check it out.
[19:52]Is that like a fitness one thing?
[19:54]No, it's absent and fun.
[19:56]Like you get like something,
[19:58]some kind of like beauty supply.
[20:00]and then you get some kind of health thing
[20:01]and then you get some kind of fun thing,
[20:02]but it comes four times a year
[20:04]and it's really just like, I get mine.
[20:06]My daughter's like,
[20:07]can I look at it with you?
[20:08]I'm like, no, this is my box.
[20:09]Like, I have my own box.
[20:11]It's a mom box, you know?
[20:12]It's just like,
[20:14]all the bags, whatever, you know, comes for that season.
[20:17]So I do look at the month and then I also do
[20:19]and I were totally off to a big,
[20:21]but I get like the LOL box for my kids
[20:24]and it takes a few days for it.
[20:26]Like all they do is unbox and unwrap stuff
[20:29]and it's basically like, all we do is clean up packaging
[20:31]but they think it's so fun.
[20:32]So whatever.
[20:33]Whatever, if you press this present
[20:36]and I'm like, I think this is the box I ordered.
[20:38]I don't know.
[20:40]The box isn't.
[20:41]Which box is it?
[20:42]I can't even keep your eye.
[20:44]Anyway, so that would I feel like be such a natural?
[20:47]But I'm sure there's so many other brand extensions.
[20:49]I mean, it's just such an approachable.
[20:52]There are other, I feel like there are other companies
[20:56]and things like trying to get kids
[20:58]and girls especially to enjoy science
[21:00]and I feel like this is so important.
[21:01]But your brand is so playful and fun and young
[21:04]and targeted that it would be really easy.
[21:07]We really wanted to do, you know,
[21:10]like I think a lot of kids start to think science
[21:12]is a subject in school.
[21:13]Like once you, once kids get to middle school
[21:16]and it becomes like you're going to science now
[21:18]and then you're going to social studies
[21:19]and you're going to ELA then somehow the fun of science,
[21:23]I think gets lost that they have an elementary school.
[21:27]And that's kind of what we always think about
[21:30]is what would be something fun that kids could do at home?
[21:33]You know, science is everywhere.
[21:34]It's not just a subject in school
[21:36]and how do we keep kids off of that track
[21:39]that it's just a subject that you're supposed to get an A
[21:41]and I mean, it's everywhere.
[21:42]It's outside.
[21:43]It's when I do some of my talks at schools
[21:46]at the end, you know, I'll have people raise their hand.
[21:49]I'll say, who loves science?
[21:50]And like they're like,
[21:52]you don't have to love science.
[21:54]Just raise your hands a little science.
[21:56]Keep your hand down if you don't.
[21:57]And then I'll say, okay, who loves baking?
[22:00]And then people raise their hand.
[22:01]I'll say, okay, who loves being outside a nature
[22:04]and they'll raise their hand.
[22:05]And then I'll just go down the list
[22:07]and they'll always be a few kids.
[22:09]They're just like, you know, that's just not for me.
[22:12]You haven't listed anything yet.
[22:13]And then of course I say, who loves computers?
[22:16]And they're like, oh, and everyone raises their hand.
[22:19]They start screening and then I'm like,
[22:21]that's computer science.
[22:22]And they're like, what?
[22:23]I mean, it's so cute to like,
[22:25]they just don't think of those things as science.
[22:28]Cause they're not.
[22:29]Oh, so yeah.
[22:29]Yeah, I feel like science as a word is like needs,
[22:32]we need to like rename it or something.
[22:34]I mean, not now cause you have the books
[22:35]and everything, but it has like a negative connotation
[22:39]which it shouldn't.
[22:40]It doesn't, it's not even representative of all the stuff.
[22:43]It's like if you said CC loves experimenting
[22:45]it would be like, totally, of course she does.
[22:47]Like yeah, he loves potions, magic.
[22:50]And you know, asking questions.
[22:52]I feel like, you know, just the whole idea
[22:55]of keeping kids curious, asking questions,
[22:59]getting out there and exploring is kind of the whole thing.
[23:02]Like don't squash their curiosity.
[23:06]That's like all kids do, right?
[23:08]Why?
[23:09]Why?
[23:10]After why?
[23:10]Why?
[23:14]So what's going on in your other writing lives?
[23:17]Are you still doing wise?
[23:19]Like what have you, have you stopped
[23:20]the other types of writing?
[23:22]Or what, like how are you integrating this
[23:24]with the rest of your professional lives?
[23:26]I mean, I think where this has kind of been,
[23:29]I don't even, it's interrupted it a little bit,
[23:32]but we're both still writing.
[23:34]I mean, we both have projects in the works, nothing
[23:38]announcementable, but I mean, we definitely are both writing.
[23:42]I think COVID has been the biggest hiccup.
[23:44]COVID has, you know, if anything,
[23:47]you would think that would give you more writing time,
[23:50]but it's definitely been a creativity,
[23:53]I think, damper, for me, I'll speak for me personally.
[23:58]I know probably some people found it easier
[24:00]to hunker down at home and find time to write.
[24:04]For me, it's actually been the opposite.
[24:07]I've found that it's kind of taken away my creativity
[24:10]a little bit and now I'm finding it again,
[24:12]but the picture books are actually kind of nice.
[24:16]Shelley and I have other picture books in the works.
[24:18]We found that writing together is our,
[24:23]this team thing works really well for us.
[24:25]Shelley has other individual picture books
[24:28]and our team one, we have another one coming out in 2020.
[24:32]Like 20, this is 2020, 2022, 2022.
[24:36]Yeah, which sounds forever away.
[24:39]I have a couple, so I'm not,
[24:41]like I'm having an overachiever, so with COVID,
[24:44]for me, it helped me focus because I wasn't going to soccer.
[24:47]I wasn't going to.
[24:48]So I feel bad because my husband built this super cute
[24:53]she shed for me and it's just amazing.
[24:56]And so I actually have two picture books coming out next year.
[25:00]I kind of moved away from why, and was just like,
[25:02]I love picture books.
[25:03]So, Kim and I do the STEM picture books,
[25:06]but I've got The Saurus, which is a dinosaur who loved wars
[25:10]that's coming out with penguin.
[25:11]You have a book coming out thing, right?
[25:13]Flamingo is a new imprint under penguin random house,
[25:15]so it's going to be through that.
[25:16]Oh, I love, I love that emblem, like the logo, I think it's here.
[25:20]And then I have Shine like a unicorn,
[25:22]which is coming out with Harper,
[25:23]that is a how-to book, like how do you stand out?
[25:26]How do you, how do you be a unicorn in a herd of horses?
[25:29]This is kind of the tagline.
[25:31]So I kind of went down a picture book a little bit more,
[25:34]but I'm working on a YA now and it's nice to get back.
[25:38]I've actually found that since I don't have anywhere
[25:40]to be with my kids, it's given me that space.
[25:44]I'm not driving all the time.
[25:45]I'm not in my car all the time.
[25:47]I'm not sitting at soccer fields, which is sad,
[25:49]but it definitely has given me time to focus.
[25:51]Is it sad though?
[25:55]I don't know.
[25:59]Good way, Miss, back your hockey and baseball
[26:03]and ice skating, and I am pretty happy here, my desk.
[26:07]Yeah, I'm just really great today.
[26:09]It gives you more space to be creative.
[26:11]Before I felt like I was trying to squeeze it in before,
[26:14]I also do marketing some a copywriter on the side.
[26:16]I do freelance.
[26:16]So I was feeling like I was always trying to squeeze
[26:18]my writing in between writing picture books
[26:20]and writing YA and being with the kids
[26:22]and doing this and being with the husband and cooking dinner.
[26:24]And now, like everybody's just here.
[26:27]And I have no place to go and instacart,
[26:30]instacart taking care of me.
[26:32]Except your fancy she shed, my she shed gets me away
[26:35]from the house, which is nice to have my kids in.
[26:39]So I totally agree, by the way,
[26:41]like not having a race around and get people
[26:43]to sort of thing.
[26:44]This has been like completely freeing for me.
[26:47]Maybe it's because I have a PhD and I'm scattered.
[26:49]Like maybe that is just too much scatter for me.
[26:53]So yeah, I think it's too much scatter for most of us.
[26:55]I mean, it was a lot.
[26:56]Now that we've slowed down, I'm like,
[26:58]oh, what was I doing?
[26:59]Like how did I even do that?
[27:01]But anyway, what parting advice would you guys have
[27:03]for aspiring picture book writers or writers at all, I guess?
[27:07]I will tell you that I watched your podcast
[27:09]with Greer and Sarah and Kim and I would like to take them
[27:13]on in the cattle of the co-authors.
[27:17]Because we were listening to,
[27:19]I was listening to their podcast and there,
[27:21]they were like, no other writer,
[27:22]white's like us and we're on Zoom,
[27:23]we're on Skype all the time
[27:25]and we feel like our relationship's different
[27:27]and I was thinking, no, it's not.
[27:28]We get on Skype every day.
[27:30]We talk every day, all day.
[27:32]And I got in my head, I was a little bit competitive.
[27:34]I was thinking, I like, we could take them.
[27:36]Like maybe we know more about them
[27:38]than they know about us.
[27:40]So, I mean, that is like, that's a challenge.
[27:44]I am going to find a way to pitch that as a TV show,
[27:48]at all of the co-authors or like author battle or something.
[27:52]And you guys won't be the first contestants, yes.
[27:55]We went and it'll be like the authors
[27:57]that know it's the best, but that would be my advice though,
[27:59]is I think when you do do a co-author,
[28:02]the relationship has to be, you have to trust first, right?
[28:06]I mean, because you do have conflict,
[28:08]you do come across things that you are not expecting
[28:10]to come across.
[28:12]And that is the first thing Kim and I
[28:13]need to pack from the very beginning.
[28:15]Like, you are for me, I am for you.
[28:17]Like, we are a team, no one else matters.
[28:19]We have to be with it first.
[28:21]If you don't like something, I don't want to like it.
[28:23]If you don't like, we both have to love it
[28:25]and move forward and no matter what,
[28:27]it's to be what I against the world.
[28:28]Right, the friendship always comes first
[28:30]with the co-authoring.
[28:32]You have to really trust each other.
[28:33]Yes, I mean, we have to trust each other.
[28:35]Oh yeah, so we have our own challenges.
[28:38]Uh-oh.
[28:39]Yeah, I would say that's the biggest is,
[28:41]because we are on the phone pretty much every day for hours.
[28:45]My daughter came out the other day and said,
[28:48]start talking.
[28:48]I said, I'm on the phone and she goes, yeah,
[28:50]but is it just Kim?
[28:52]I said, we're working.
[28:54]She doesn't sound like you're working.
[28:55]I'm like, we work and we play at the same time.
[28:59]Wow, people, a lot of work done.
[29:01]We just have to catch up a little bit.
[29:03]So Kim was like, just Kim, that's great.
[29:06]It's just, I don't know what you think of for advice.
[29:10]Advice, I mean, for authors for picture book authors in general,
[29:15]I mean, I think the best thing you can do
[29:17]is join a great organization like SCBWI
[29:21]and get involved with meeting other authors.
[29:24]If you're an illustrator, meet other illustrators,
[29:26]get involved with the organizations out there in your area.
[29:32]Right now you can't actually do it in person,
[29:34]but they have so many great virtual events
[29:37]and find out what resources are available.
[29:40]Because like I said, Shelley and I had to go out
[29:42]and scour the internet and meeting,
[29:45]actually talking to other authors
[29:47]who are in the industry was more helpful
[29:49]even than this stuff we found online.
[29:51]And I think writing picture books is hard.
[29:53]I mean, it is harder.
[29:55]I find than it is for YA, not saying
[29:58]that anyone doesn't work as hard.
[30:00]the picture book author, but getting a story and a character in, you know, 800 words,
[30:06]600 words, enough to where people can connect to the character, enough to where you know
[30:11]what's going on. It's hard. I mean, we really struggle trying to pair back our words.
[30:17]So I think really finding, making sure that your characters have clear arcs just as their
[30:22]picture books that they still have to have a clear arc, clear story, personality voice,
[30:26]and I think that's hard to do in 600 words. Yeah. So great. My also right before
[30:32]you, I interviewed Sophie Blackall, the author illustrator. She's starting, you should
[30:36]know, a retreat for children's book authors and illustrators. Oh, great. Like a Yatto
[30:42]for children's books, basically. And I'm, I can't find the little sticky here, but it's
[30:46]called like something farm, Wilford, milkwood, milkwood farm.
[30:51]It sounds like your book, right? It does. That's brilliant. And like, anyway, check it out.
[30:56]She has like a new Instagram for it. Oh, that's great. But it might be really neat to go.
[31:00]I was like, when can, when, when is this so fake? Can I be a literature writer? Anyway,
[31:05]well, thank you. Maybe so much. This was so fun. And I'm so thankful for all the, all the
[31:10]little fun cards and books and everything. And your books are just fantastic. So well,
[31:14]I mean, I'm so happy when you said you'd already got Libby Love Science. I thought,
[31:17]well, that's, that's great. It's been, Libby's been hard because it's been, you know,
[31:21]over COVID. Yeah. It, no, it jumped right out to me. Great placement. I was at a bookstore.
[31:26]It was like front and center. And, adiatically, I didn't even realize it was related to
[31:30]CC Love Science when I got it. But I was like, Oh, Libby. And then I, I was kind of taking
[31:35]this with my son. And I was like, look, it's kind of like, love science. You know, I like
[31:40]it's the closest title of a book to my name ever. So anyway, you know, it's funny when I was
[31:46]signing it to you. I, I was like, I got all nervous because I wrote, and then I looked
[31:50]down and I had written to Libby because I was like, Libby, Zippy, no. And then I put it
[31:55]aside and had to make another one. But I was like, Oh, Zippy would be a cute name. What
[31:58]if I'd be weird? Oh, that'd be great. Awesome. I mean, I was so excited. Even this is very,
[32:04]I feel like I'm famous. So thank you. All right. Have a great day, guys. Thank you so much
[32:10]for having us. I hope you enjoyed it. I hope you enjoyed today's episode. I know I
[32:22]enjoyed recording it. Don't forget to check out my new podcast. Moms don't have time to lose
[32:28]weight. Pretty soon. Moms won't have time to listen to podcasts. And check out the Instagram
[32:33]community that goes along with it. And if you would like to join, please request to join.
[32:38]us for anyone who wants to feel body better in their body tomorrow than they do today.
[32:43]And it's a supportive group of like-minded souls who just need the community to achieve
[32:47]their goals. Moms don't have time to lose weight. Thanks for listening to this episode of
[32:51]Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books. Don't forget to follow me on Instagram at Zippy Owens
[32:56]and at Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books. Also sign up for my newsletter at zippyowens.com
[33:01]and sign up for my virtual book club and meet lots of authors on Zoom every other week.
[33:05]It's so much to Steve and Ryan at Texture Sound for the Sound Editing. And thank you
[33:10]to Morning Moon Productions for providing this fantastic intro and outro music.