Victoria Montgomery-Brown, DIGITAL GODDESS
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[0:53]I don't know about any of you, but I am still obsessed with Mindy Kayling after her amazing appearance on the office.
[1:01]She is also an author for those of you who don't know. This is her third work.
[1:05]It's called Nothing Like I Imagine, and it's an Amazon original story.
[1:11]It's a collection of short stories, six of them about how she juggles life as a new mom, actress, and Hollywood powerbencher.
[1:16]And her story collection is actually the sponsor of this episode.
[1:20]It was written and narrated by Mindy, and it's great to listen to on the go available in audio and e-book format.
[1:27]Prime members can listen and read it for free. So you can download this today at amazon.com
[1:34]slash Mindy stories. That's amazon.com slash Mindy stories. It's absolutely hilarious and just
[1:42]you will not want to stop reading. So check it out today, amazon.com slash Mindy stories.
[1:49]Victoria Montgomery Brown is co-founder and chief executive officer of Big Think.
[1:54]It's become the leading digital media knowledge company, making people and companies smarter
[1:59]and faster with the world's best thinkers and doers. Her new book is Digital Goddess, the unfiltered
[2:05]lessons of a female entrepreneur. Victoria graduated from Montreal's McGill University and received
[2:10]her MBA from Harvard Business School, which I did too, and she was in my class.
[2:14]Welcome Victoria. Thank you so much for coming on mom's. Don't have time to read books.
[2:18]Thanks, Vee. This is a great pleasure. This is so nice. I think you are my third
[2:23]classmate from HBS to be on my podcast. I had Lee Carpenter and Charles Dewhig, and now you
[2:29]us. I look at this. It's great. Charles interviewed me two weeks ago on Big Think, actually,
[2:35]for the book. I was like, who could be a great interviewer? Charles. Yes, he was awesome. Well,
[2:41]that's great. I'm you all are just so accomplished and it's a pleasure to be able to talk to you.
[2:45]And now you've written this great book, Digital Goddess, the unfiltered lessons of a female
[2:50]entrepreneur, which is amazing. And you're just telling me, I'm seeing this before you. This is
[2:55]the copy of your book. At least the advanced copy, which looks great and congratulations.
[3:00]So Victoria, you've already like found this amazing company, Big Think. Why also write a book?
[3:06]What made you want to sit down and share all your lessons with the rest of us? Which, by the way,
[3:10]thank you. I appreciate it. You're welcome. I think it was because essentially over the years,
[3:16]probably mostly in the last five years, I've received lots of emails from young women
[3:22]who are aspiring entrepreneurs. I mean, obviously, it takes a while to build a successful business.
[3:27]And Big Think is doing well now. And we reach about 40 million people a month. And so I think
[3:33]because of that, women started to reach out to me and ask, well, you know, I have an interest in being
[3:37]an entrepreneur too. How did you do it? And my business partner actually Peter Hawkins was the one
[3:43]who really encouraged me to do it. You have a unique perspective. There are female entrepreneurs,
[3:50]but not a ton of them. And a lot of them don't become the CEO. So I think it would be good for
[3:55]you to write a book and explain how you did it or how we did it for especially through young
[4:00]women. But it's really for entrepreneurs or aspiring entrepreneurs at any stage or age.
[4:05]As you were talking, by the way, I realized I also had Jeff Norton on my podcast. He was
[4:09]also in our class. So anyway, okay. Well, thank you guys for women, CEOs and entrepreneurs.
[4:16]Could you just share the story that you wrote about in the book, which was hilarious? I mean,
[4:20]scary in its own right as well. But when you were called into the police department,
[4:26]you had to share with your investors all the craziness of what happened after your prior job
[4:32]incident? Yes. Well, so I say in the book that I was arrested, but I actually was talking to
[4:38]yes, my criminal defense attorney, who is my friend. Now, from years ago, and he corrected me and said,
[4:45]I was not actually arrested because there's no record of it, all that was expunged. So in the moment,
[4:50]I was arrested, but not legally. In any case, it was, I think November or December of 2007. So
[4:58]literally a few weeks before Big Think was about to launch. And a big story was coming out in the
[5:03]New York Times. I think on January 7th, with Larry Summers, who was the former president of Harvard
[5:09]and former treasury secretary, talking about why he had decided to be in an initial investor in
[5:15]Big Think. So this was a huge deal. It was maybe the second page of the New York Times business
[5:20]section. And I was walking out of Union Square subway station. It was the era of flip phones,
[5:27]unbelievably. And I got a call from a number I didn't recognize. And typically, I don't
[5:31]answer phone calls from remember, I don't recognize, but something told me to answer this call.
[5:37]And I did, I picked up the phone and there was a guy's voice with like a strong New York accent
[5:44]and sounded kind of laughing, like a laughing tone. And he introduced himself as a senior detective
[5:51]from the NYPD and told me that I needed to come into a specific precinct. And me being,
[5:57]I don't know, naive or something had never been, had dealt, never had any dealings with the police
[6:03]or anything like that. And so I just put on my good girl hat and was like, oh my gosh, I've got to
[6:08]get into a car go. I went directly to the, to the police station. I called my dad on the way. And
[6:14]he said, what are you doing? Like, you don't even know why you're going. Get out of the car. But I
[6:19]kept going. I arrived at the precinct. There was a man there dressed in civilian clothes, I guess
[6:25]you call them, waiting for me. And he was just totally laughing. But it was a big deal. And I was
[6:31]arrested again, whatever, expunished later. But and I sat in a room with a one-way mirror for
[6:37]maybe three hours. And I think it was just intimidation tactics of some kind. And somebody that I had
[6:44]previously worked for was not pleased that I had left and called into a flurry of activity,
[6:51]basically, the New York justice system. And it was terrifying. But as I say in the book, I could
[6:58]have basically just hidden this from, from our investors or deny it pretended it didn't happen.
[7:04]As soon as I came out to my business partner and I started calling our investors, I called them
[7:09]the majority of them. Peter actually called Larry because he knew him better at that stage than I
[7:14]did. And just fessed up to what happened. And one of our classmates is actually a lead investor
[7:20]and big thing, David Tranquil. So he was the first person I called. And I had no idea what
[7:25]to expect from any of these people. Would they be mad? Would they disavow me? Would they want
[7:30]to divest? Etc. You know, I had no idea what the outcome was going to be. Nor did I. And so
[7:37]anyway, I was pleasantly surprised. They all supported me. And it told me a lesson that
[7:43]has been fundamental for this entire duration of big thing can be an entrepreneur.
[7:47]Just get out in front of the bad news as quickly as you can. Be as honest and as blunt as possible.
[7:53]And people will support you. I mean, I mentioned in the book at some stage the story of
[7:58]Elizabeth Holmes. And you know, once you start digging yourself into a hole, it's really difficult
[8:03]to get out. And you actually have to dig deeper. So I learned immediately that you just thought
[8:09]that you have to be honest. And as much as it's painful, that's the thing to do.
[8:13]So true. It's like even with my kids, I'm like, I'm not even that upset that you stole the cookie.
[8:18]I'm more upset that you lied about stealing the cookie. It's like, it's like,
[8:22]somehow the lies themselves make whatever it was almost pale in comparison to the fact that
[8:28]you then can't trust the person. Because once you don't trust in your relationship,
[8:32]what else is left, right? So yeah, usually you don't have to learn it in such a dramatic
[8:37]you know, an order type way, but I'm glad that you, uh, you live this through the rest of us.
[8:43]It's crazy. And just for the people who aren't familiar with big thing, do you want to just
[8:47]explain what it is and why you founded it to begin with and sort of what people can get out of it?
[8:53]Yeah, sure. So big thing is a global knowledge form with leading thinkers and influencers.
[8:57]So we say to be on big thing, you have to be at the top of your field or disrupting it.
[9:02]Everybody from Nobel laureates to business leaders, politicians, artists, academics,
[9:08]we've had everybody on from blacks and Elon Musk to Richard Branson, Larry Summers,
[9:13]it's global. It's international. We reach around 49,000 people a month. The large majority of it
[9:19]is free. So it's short form video and also articles. And then we also have a subscription
[9:25]side of it, which is much more focused on professional and personal growth and development.
[9:30]So we've been around since 2008 and it's growing. It's, I don't know, it's something I'm very
[9:36]proud of because we saw when we started a dearth of thoughtful content on the internet.
[9:41]And so we thought, you know, we kind of, we pitched it to our investors as Davos democratized.
[9:46]So for people who don't know, Davos is this thing which is probably not happening this year,
[9:51]but that happens every, well, next year in January in Switzerland where notable business leaders
[9:57]and world leaders in Bono.
[10:00]get together. It's always there, I don't know, but I've never been. But they get together
[10:06]in the in the Alps and they talk about global issues. And all of these incredible people get exposed
[10:13]to other incredible, notable people, but the likes of me and other people don't get to go
[10:19]and participate. And so we thought, why don't we create a scenario where regular people have
[10:25]access to the to the minds of incredible thought leaders. And so we created big think and we
[10:31]pitched it to initial investors as Davos democratized. And so it's grown from there, but the
[10:36]fundamental principles of it haven't changed. We really do want to expose like incredible people to
[10:43]our audience in in ways that is not of the moment. So it's not about what's happening politically
[10:48]today, yesterday, tomorrow. It's really what can this person, whether they be a politician or a business
[10:55]or an artist teach you or I that we can put it into our own work or lives and make ourselves
[11:01]in our lives better and those around us. So we say that it has to be it stands this test of time.
[11:07]Now are there moments when we do do something that's of the moment? Yes, but 90 to 95% of the
[11:14]content we create is everything. Excellent. When you like, do you go on it and tune up on certain
[11:19]topics yourself? I absolutely do. So for instance, we had recently, I suppose it was about one of
[11:25]our last in studio interviews before COVID with Robin DiAngelo who wrote white fragility the book.
[11:32]And so she gave a masterclass for big think on confronting racism. And that to me was really
[11:41]profound and interesting. So yes, I do go on and learn about topics that I didn't know about
[11:47]all the time. The moment is interesting for us because we're doing a lot of this type of
[11:51]interview and where before we'd had people come into our studio. And what's been interesting,
[11:57]I don't know if you found this. It's been much easier for us to have access to guests because
[12:03]I interviewed Pendulate the magician, I suppose about six weeks ago. And typically it would
[12:08]take maybe six months to book him and he lives in Las Vegas. So getting on a plane to come to
[12:13]to New York or us going to Las Vegas, big barriers to entry. And now doing things like this,
[12:20]it just, it's been so much easier. I mean, I think next week we're interviewing Malcolm Gladwell.
[12:25]We've done him. We've interviewed him maybe three times before. But again,
[12:29]it's typically a six months or so booking process. And this was a week or two. So this has changed
[12:34]things. Not that you asked, but I know I'm just going to call Malcolm Gladwell next. It sounds
[12:39]like he has plenty of spare time. So no, I have noticed that actually. And my access to authors
[12:46]of course has expanded because it doesn't matter where they are. I used to really insist that people
[12:51]not insist, but I used to request that people come over. And that was so nice. And I really got
[12:56]to know people really well, like one I wanted to sit right here. But now this is so much more
[13:01]efficient. And I can fit in more interviews because it's anyway, they're pros and cons to everything.
[13:06]But I would still, you know, if I had my brothers sit here next to you instead of on the computer.
[13:10]But it's lovely this way too. But you had so many great tips in your book. I'll just like pick
[13:16]out a few that I thought were pretty great. Here's one. You said here's something major. Well,
[13:22]this is from HBS, which I'm not even sure I learned this. But anyway, you said here's something
[13:26]major that HBS taught me. You don't need to know how to do things. You need to know how to ask people
[13:31]to do things for you. This is something in which I excel. It's true. Well, I was thinking back to
[13:37]this a few weeks ago because I was in a study group actually with our classmate and friend, Lee
[13:43]Carpenter. And I helped organize the study group with Lee. And I think there were probably eight of us
[13:50]in the study group. I was the only one who was not a baker scholar. Maybe Lee maybe Lee wasn't
[13:55]I'm not sure. But everybody else was. So I managed to assemble this incredible group where I
[14:02]probably contributed academically the least. But I managed to learn from incredibly bright
[14:09]people around me. And I think that is something to not be ashamed of. You know, people have
[14:15]different skills. And so when we were putting together the business model on the plan for big
[14:20]things and Excel spreadsheets, I suck at Excel. Well, why do I have to do this? I can find
[14:26]somebody who knows how to do it. And it's going to be a whole lot better than anything I put together.
[14:32]And so that's the approach I've taken. I think it's definitely been humbling over the years to
[14:36]realize how little I do know. But they're not so freeing to understand that there are people out
[14:43]there who can help you and not to be ashamed to ask. And HBS really did teach me that because I
[14:48]did feel oftentimes the I think there is an expression like the diversity admit I came from
[14:54]an artsy background. And I was seated next to a banker first year from Goldman Sachs in an
[15:00]ABCL. And it's like, how do I belong in this situation? But you know, that did teach me that
[15:07]I did bring something to the table different than these people. And it's not it's not shameful to ask
[15:13]Yeah, we were there just to make their experience better. I don't know, I actually have a really
[15:22]hard time delegating anything. I think that's probably one of my weaknesses. I just feel like by the
[15:26]time I find the right person to do something, I could have just done it 50 times over myself.
[15:32]So I don't know, do you find it? Maybe I'm not. And I don't know. It's my own. Well, I do feel that
[15:37]sometimes myself. I feel if it takes me longer to ask somebody for help or to do something,
[15:43]I'll just do it. But over the years, I've realized, you know, so many people I work with can do
[15:48]things far better than I. I mean, I have a company that focuses on video production. Do I know
[15:55]how to set up the camera? No, I do not. Do I do any of the editing? No. And so it's really like, you know,
[16:01]CEOs of most companies, they should understand the process of what they're building or the product
[16:08]etc. But they don't need to, they don't need to have to build it themselves.
[16:11]Can't do everything. You had another great idea here where somebody took 1000 sticky notes
[16:19]with tasks that had to be accomplished, put them all over. And then each day, just pull down one
[16:24]to take off the list, the to do list, so to speak. And I was like putting that on my sticky
[16:28]notes here. I was like, oh, tell me about that. And if you've actually tried it yourself,
[16:34]I have tried it myself. I mean, I should be doing it more these days actually. But I think it's
[16:39]can be really overwhelming when you think to yourself, okay, I have to build a business or I have
[16:46]to build this product or something. The finality of it is really overwhelming versus, okay,
[16:51]if I just do call this person today or do one little thing, it feels like you're moving forward.
[16:59]And I think that the building of momentum is fundamental to achieving whatever is you want to achieve
[17:05]versus it's so easy to just sit like, okay, I want to run a marathon or something. Well,
[17:10]if I just go out and walk 100 feet today and then tomorrow I run 500 feet or something,
[17:17]you're just building the momentum for it and taking those sticky notes off the wall really does
[17:23]feel like you're accomplishing something. And I think pushes you forward versus just as I said,
[17:28]the finality of the overwhelmingness of the large project or whatever is you're trying to do
[17:34]seems insurmountable versus one little thing at a time. Although I feel like I would take one
[17:40]down and then think of five other things that I had to do. Like we'd have to start another wall.
[17:44]I feel like you'd have the first wall and then like you'd have to tackle the second wall.
[17:50]Well, things just keep building up. But I love that sort of visual element of it and
[17:55]feel like crossing it off the to-do list is sometimes not as rewarding as if you were to pull it
[18:00]down. So anyway. But actually a friend of mine, Kate Milliken suggested for me which I bought
[18:06]a couple of weeks ago, which is called Best Self. Do you know that? No. The 13 week
[18:11]this is something which I think is really amazing. It's a 13 week plan for a goal or three goals
[18:17]that you want to achieve and it's very direct and I started it yesterday and I think it's
[18:23]it's anyway, it's called Best Self. It's a very good book. He started the book or you started the
[18:27]13 weeks to achieving something. It's a book that is the 13 weeks to achieving something. So
[18:34]it's not like you read this book. It's activities every day. Oh, I see. What are you trying to achieve?
[18:41]Well, I'm trying to achieve basically how to be in my I'm a very anxious person and I've been
[18:47]through a lot to cause anxiety and stress. But for me, it's being living in the moment and
[18:53]appreciating the daily things in life versus constantly striving. So my achievement is actually
[19:00]being about less achievements at the moment, and just being in the moment and calm.
[19:06]See, this is what it's like going to Harvard Business School. We have our goals are to achieve
[19:09]less than we're capable of. We're just that amazing that we must slow ourselves down. It's just too
[19:18]much. Oh, my gosh. Well, you kind of slipped in there that you did been through a lot to create anxiety.
[19:26]Like what are some of the things? Is there anything you were thinking of in particular? Is there
[19:30]was there some sort of experience in general that you feel like has caused a lot of anxiety in your
[19:35]life or was that just a lot meaning like the business and all the rest of it? Well, I mean, I think
[19:42]overwhelmingly for the past 13 years, it's been the business and I do want to say that it's given me
[19:48]a profound amount of joy and happiness too. But I think my tendency is to revert to an anxious
[19:56]state of being in a stress state of being and plan.
[20:00]planning for the, I mean, hoping for the best
[20:03]we're planning for the worst.
[20:04]And so my go-to is always, okay,
[20:06]so this positive thing that happened.
[20:08]And then I think of 10 negative things
[20:10]that could derail it.
[20:12]And so that's a real challenge for me.
[20:14]And so over the years,
[20:16]I've had gone into many downward spirals
[20:18]when positive things are happening around me.
[20:21]And all I see is doom.
[20:22]And I think it was maybe 2013 or 14
[20:26]that I was in San Francisco with Peter, my business partner.
[20:29]And we were seated at Europe of Wenna, this coffee place.
[20:34]And I started talking about all the problem things
[20:38]that were potentially gonna happen into the business
[20:40]and what the investors were going to say
[20:42]and like our clients and our employees.
[20:45]And he sat there with no joking at all
[20:49]and said, this is all gonna happen.
[20:52]Why are we doing this?
[20:53]I mean, why don't we just quit?
[20:55]Like what's the point?
[20:56]And then he pulled himself together
[20:58]and said, you know Victoria,
[20:59]it's been really difficult to be around you
[21:02]for the past six months.
[21:03]It's all negative all the time.
[21:06]I know that your role as CEO is to see the negative things
[21:10]and potential, but you're also supposed to see the positive
[21:13]and be encouraging people and being a cheerleader
[21:16]versus planning for the doom scenario.
[21:19]And you really need to go and get help.
[21:21]And I'm not going to just sit back
[21:23]and observe this any longer.
[21:26]And so at that stage, I had been seeing, you know,
[21:29]casually sort of a therapist to just talk about
[21:32]the daily ins and outs, but I found that in therapy,
[21:36]I tended to be a comedian and my job was to essentially
[21:40]make the therapist laugh.
[21:41]And so I would emerge from these sessions
[21:44]being like, well, what was the use of that really?
[21:46]I wasn't very honest.
[21:48]I just was about comedy.
[21:50]And so anyway, I ended up going to see a psychiatrist
[21:52]and I went, I was placed on or put myself
[21:56]or he placed me on antidepressants.
[21:58]And anti-anxiety medication, one of the same,
[22:00]I think it's well-butron.
[22:02]And that really helped me and kind of broke the cycle
[22:06]of the downward doom scenarios.
[22:08]Now has it made me be the life of the party
[22:11]and the joy and light and airy all the time?
[22:13]No, but it certainly did break a cycle of doom.
[22:17]And so I would encourage anybody to do that,
[22:20]but that was the kind of the end of the road
[22:23]for Peter that really helped me.
[22:25]And I suppose it's like addiction.
[22:27]Somebody has to do an intervention sometimes
[22:29]for you to take the steps.
[22:31]That's great.
[22:32]How great that he did that and that you were open
[22:34]and receptive to that feedback as opposed to like
[22:36]storming away from the table,
[22:38]which I could maybe see myself doing
[22:39]in a similar situation.
[22:42]Like, what do you mean?
[22:44]I mean, it wasn't easy, but I could also know in myself
[22:48]that I wasn't happy and that feeling of,
[22:51]it was in more panic that was 24 hours
[22:54]or whenever I was awake.
[22:55]And you know, the feeling of something bad
[22:57]is about to happen in your stomach that just wouldn't leave.
[23:00]So it was, I'm really unpleasant for me
[23:03]in my own body as well.
[23:04]Oh, I'm really sorry.
[23:06]That's, you know, no fun at all.
[23:08]And I'm glad you got it.
[23:09]You found a way to manage it.
[23:11]And, you know, yes, I think therapy is like the greatest thing.
[23:14]I wish I had been a therapist myself.
[23:17]But anyway, it said, I get to hear about other people
[23:20]therapy journeys and not have to do all the work.
[23:22]So I get some perks.
[23:24]What was it like for you going back
[23:27]and sort of flexing on all your time
[23:28]and then sitting down to write this book?
[23:30]Like, what did that feel like?
[23:31]And how long did it take for you to write the book?
[23:33]Like, what was that process like?
[23:35]Well, it was actually much quicker than I thought
[23:38]because obviously, obviously, I've never written a novel.
[23:42]I think that requires way, way, way, way more effort
[23:48]because what I was writing was what my experience
[23:51]and what I know.
[23:52]And the most difficult part for me
[23:54]was figuring out the structure of it
[23:56]because it's, as I was began writing,
[23:59]I was like, is this even interesting?
[24:01]I mean, because it's my story, you know?
[24:03]So I was in some ways thinking,
[24:06]who is going to care about this?
[24:07]So the most challenging part for me was the structure of it.
[24:12]Kind of like in high school or college
[24:15]or whatever, writing an essay,
[24:16]getting down the parts that you want to talk about
[24:19]and then figuring out the order
[24:21]that you're going to tell them in.
[24:22]And then the parts that you need to cut.
[24:24]So I put together a proposal in June of 2019, oh my gosh.
[24:31]And do you think anything about it?
[24:33]And I submitted it to, I think, around 10 agents cold.
[24:37]And I finally got one, and as they say,
[24:39]and it is true around card,
[24:41]anybody who wants to write a book,
[24:42]it just takes one, nine of 10 publishers rejected it
[24:46]and the 10 selected it.
[24:49]It took me three months to write the whole thing that fast.
[24:53]Well, because, you know, they wanted it
[24:56]because of the election coming up,
[24:57]it was either going to be pre-election released
[25:00]or post-election release.
[25:01]And so I didn't know this before writing a book,
[25:04]but the editorial and publishing process is very long.
[25:09]So the whole thing was finished by December of last year.
[25:13]And then obviously there have been tweaks and things to it.
[25:16]And then the choosing the book cover and things like that.
[25:19]But the bulk of the work and all the writing was done by December
[25:22]because they needed it done by that.
[25:24]So it was a very, very quick writing process.
[25:28]But I will say that I think
[25:30]had I been given a year or something,
[25:32]I might not have done it.
[25:33]It's kind of like cramming for a test or something.
[25:38]The fact that I had to do it in such a short time frame
[25:40]meant that I actually did this.
[25:42]It's like that saying, like, if you give a busy person
[25:44]something to do, they'll do it fast.
[25:46]And like, yes.
[25:47]It's like if I have 1,000 things to do and then throw it in.
[25:50]I'll make that call of send that email.
[25:52]But on a lazy Sunday, if I'm not doing anything,
[25:55]I can't even send one email sometimes.
[25:57]I have a lot of writing from HBS in 2003.
[26:01]And as I wrote in the book, I didn't have a job until, I guess, November
[26:06]or something that year.
[26:07]And I was staying in my sister's house in New York or apartment.
[26:11]And I remember in the morning getting out of bed
[26:14]and having been at HBS being busy all the time,
[26:18]I found it to struggle to even plan to go to the gym.
[26:21]It's like, it seemed like a huge effort and ridiculous.
[26:25]Yes, I feel like that.
[26:26]I still sometimes feel like that.
[26:28]Because it feels hard.
[26:30]Yeah, I see what you're saying.
[26:33]So what's coming next for you?
[26:34]You have this book coming out.
[26:35]And just so exciting, you're running your business.
[26:37]Like, what else?
[26:39]What else is coming up?
[26:41]Well, in this book, that's self.
[26:43]There's this 13-week bucket list, which I'm
[26:46]trying to put my mind to about things I want to do.
[26:49]I really do want to expand into other areas personally, as well.
[26:54]I'd love to learn Spanish, which I have never done.
[26:56]I grew up in Canada and studied French for 12 years.
[27:00]And I'm in no way fluent in French, which
[27:02]tells you about learning languages and schools.
[27:06]I think I have to go and immerse myself somewhere.
[27:08]And so at some point in the next year,
[27:10]I'd like when the whole COVID thing hopefully
[27:13]ends.
[27:14]I'd like to go to Spain and learn Spanish.
[27:16]And also just be much more open to things other than work.
[27:21]That doesn't mean that work isn't going to be front and center,
[27:25]but it will be alongside other things.
[27:27]So that's really it.
[27:29]This is great.
[27:30]I thought I caught you at this major self-improvement
[27:32]moment in your life.
[27:33]Like, you're trying to do all these different things.
[27:36]It's amazing.
[27:36]That's so great.
[27:38]You mentioned already it only takes one
[27:40]as advice to aspiring authors.
[27:42]What other advice would you share?
[27:44]I think just keep going.
[27:45]I mean, the hardest part, even for me,
[27:47]is getting the first few words down.
[27:50]And then once you start writing, it's easier.
[27:52]But the blank page, as I know, much better writers
[27:55]than I even struggle with that.
[27:58]So it's just literally starting.
[28:01]And that's even what I said about with a business.
[28:03]It's just taking the leap.
[28:05]And saying you're going to do it.
[28:07]I mean, that's something else I write about in the book
[28:09]is that if you tell people that you're going to do it,
[28:12]it's really hard to not do it.
[28:13]I mean, if I said to you, I'm about to start writing
[28:15]my second book.
[28:17]And in two months, you called me and asked how it was going.
[28:20]I'd be slightly abashed if I hadn't even started it.
[28:24]I'm not writing a second book at the moment.
[28:26]So I do that too.
[28:29]I'm like, I'm going on this eating plan.
[28:32]I'm telling everybody I know about it.
[28:33]And then maybe it will work or something.
[28:36]The more you get it out loud, the more there's a shot at it.
[28:41]But it's good to apply to this.
[28:43]And I feel like so many of your tips
[28:45]apply not just to the workplace, but to every aspect of life.
[28:49]I mean, it's really user friendly.
[28:52]So I mean, I feel like women are entrepreneurs,
[28:55]even who don't work in the workplace.
[28:58]Like just running our lives and for people who
[29:01]have lots of kids and everything can be like a business.
[29:04]I mean, you know, the tips are super relevant in any context.
[29:08]So thank you.
[29:09]Thanks for the book.
[29:10]And thanks for chatting today.
[29:11]Thanks so much, Subi.
[29:12]This has been wonderful.
[29:14]Oh, thank you.
[29:15]All right, take care.
[29:16]Bye, Victoria.
[29:18]Bye.
[29:20]Thanks so much to Mindy Kayling and her book, Nothing Like I
[29:23]Imagine.
[29:24]First sponsoring this episode, you can get it on Amazon.com
[29:29]slash mini stories.
[29:31]And again, it's called Nothing Like I Imagine.
[29:34]Go check it out.
[29:35]Thanks for listening to this episode of Moms Don't Have Time
[29:38]to Read Books.
[29:39]Don't forget to follow me on Instagram, at Zibi Owens,
[29:42]and at Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books.
[29:44]Also sign up for my newsletter at zibiowens.com
[29:47]and sign up for my virtual book club
[29:48]and meet lots of authors on Zoom every other week.
[29:51]Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan at Textures Sound
[29:54]for the Sound Editing.
[29:55]And thank you to Morning Moon Productions
[29:57]for providing this fantastic intro and now trim music.