Sara Evans, BORN TO FLY
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[1:51]I had the best conversation with Country Music Star Sarah Evans. Her book, Born to Fly and memoir is like one of my recent favorites.
[1:58]I just, I don't know what it was. It was early in the morning. It was 430. I opened her book and I
[2:03]literally read the whole thing cover to cover for the next couple hours. Everything from her childhood
[2:08]accident to becoming a superstar to her body issues, her parenting advice. Anyway, I hope you
[2:14]enjoy our conversation as well. And a little bit more about Sarah for you, a multi-platinum entertainer.
[2:20]Sarah Evans is at the top of her game as the fifth most played female artist in Country Radio in
[2:25]nearly the last two decades. Her five number one singles include No Place That Far,
[2:30]says in the bucket, a real find place to start, born to fly in a little bit stronger,
[2:34]which spent two weeks in the top spot and was certified platinum by the RIA, whatever that is.
[2:39]Sarah's stunning country voice, according to Rolling Stone, has earned her the prestigious
[2:43]Academy of Country Music Top Female Vocalist Accolade, as well as numerous American Music Awards,
[2:49]Billboard Music Awards, Country Music Association, CMT and Grammy Award nominations.
[2:54]In addition, the CMA awarded video of the year honors for her hit chart-topping single,
[2:58]Born to Fly from her landmark double platinum album of the same name, which celebrates its 20th
[3:03]anniversary in 2020. She also had best-selling studio albums called Real Fine Place and Restless,
[3:10]as well as a gold certified project stronger, and No Place That Far. Copy that as her first
[3:15]solo record in nearly three years, which was released on her own Born to Fly Records on May 15th
[3:20]in 2020, which is a 13th song collection. Welcome. And also, by the way, between her and her
[3:25]husband, they have seven kids. So enjoy. Welcome, Sarah. Thank you so much for coming on
[3:30]mom's time to read books. Thank you for having me. I love this title. Oh, thank you.
[3:38]I loved your book. I literally woke up really early one morning and took it outside and set
[3:44]in like my favorite chair with no one bothering me and read it like cover to cover and loved it.
[3:49]So I just- Oh, what? Yeah. Usually I'm interrupted. I have four kids. I've usually interrupted
[3:55]all the time and things haven't, but I just was able to do it, I guess, because I got up so early,
[4:00]anyway. Awesome. Okay. So what did you think? Oh, my gosh. I loved it. I really loved it, but
[4:06]I just say you're like, I feel like I keep making mistakes, especially the parts about the parenting.
[4:11]I'm like, Oh, no. I think I'm going against sort of Sarah's rules today.
[4:16]Like, I'm like, I don't have a napkin. Oh, yeah. Do not let them sit down and eat without a napkin.
[4:24]Otherwise, they'll wipe it on their pants and then you'll miss a grease stain and it'll set in
[4:29]their shorts and stay there forever. Yeah. I know. I know. I know all the things you say are so
[4:35]right. And then sometimes I don't do them. And then I feel like- Well, as long as you're not spoiling
[4:40]your kids to the point where people don't like them, that's the main thing. That's true. Okay.
[4:44]Well, people still like them. I think so. Okay. You know, there were so many things to talk about
[4:50]in your book and your career and how you built your life and your family and all of this inspiring
[4:56]amazing stuff. What I was particularly drawn to was your whole blended family, perhaps because
[5:03]you know, I'm remarried. I have four kids. And I loved all this stuff you talked about
[5:07]about being a step parent and how the role of a step parent is not to act like a parent.
[5:11]And I just- And how you say the press likes to think that you're a mom of seven, but really
[5:16]your mom of three and a step mom of four and how they're such a big difference. So I was just
[5:19]hoping you could talk a little more about that. Yeah. That part was really important to me to
[5:24]write because having been a child of divorce myself and knowing how difficult it was like when my
[5:31]father moved out and then he remarried. He had a step daughter that was the same age as me.
[5:37]So that was incredibly hard for me to know that, you know, I wasn't able to live with my dad
[5:43]and have him all the time, but this other girl who was my same age did. And it was heartbreaking
[5:50]to me. And my dad did not handle it right. My step mother did not handle it right. And then they
[5:56]ultimately divorced and he remarried and had two step children. So I'm like, well here it is, you know,
[6:03]two other sets of families, you know, got to have my dad. And I lost him at 12, you know, because
[6:11]of their divorce. And it's been one of the really most painful aspects of my life, you know,
[6:19]anytime I think about my dad and the way that I felt like so abandoned by him. And so I really
[6:25]wanted to write about step parenting and, you know, I knew that, you know, when Jay and I got
[6:32]married and his kids would be having all of those feelings like, okay, our dad is now raising
[6:39]three other children and living with three other children, he's going to be closer to them than
[6:43]then he is with us. And I really wanted to make sure that that was not something that they felt.
[6:48]And, you know, so I talk about how one of the things I did was get all their names embroidered
[6:53]on their pillows so that when they came to our house every other weekend and every other week in
[6:59]the summer and holidays that they would know like, this is my space, my spot, it's got my name on it.
[7:05]And I think that just having that visual for them, you know, I just tried to do little things like
[7:10]that. But mainly, you know, I never tried to be their mom. I wasn't looking to have four more
[7:16]children. And, you know, I mean, raise four more children. I have three children. And so I never
[7:23]wanted to assume, you know, I'm your new mom. And when you come here, I'm your mom and you need to
[7:31]call me mom and act like I'm your mom. I really didn't want that. I wanted it to be
[7:36]exactly what it was. You know, I'm married to your dad and it's my job to facilitate
[7:42]you having an awesome weekend with him. That's so nice of you. You should be like this
[7:47]spokesperson for step moms. I really should. And I really could be because, you know, and also,
[7:54]so I never had the situation of my kids because my ex has been never remarried. And my kids,
[8:02]you know, almost never see him and saw him. And so I didn't ever have to go through that experience
[8:08]of having my kids be with another woman. But I was sensitive to that. And it did bother me every
[8:15]time the press would try to paint this picture that, you know, I'm raising seven kids. How do you do
[8:21]it, bulblab, because I'm like, I'm not raising them. Their mom is raising them. And Jay and I
[8:26]have them every other weekend, you know, and it was something that I didn't want to offend
[8:32]their mom. So that was a tricky situation to navigate through. But, you know, the main thing I did
[8:40]was just place sports with them and have fun with them. And also, you know, but on the flip side of
[8:46]it's hard to be a step mom because you don't ever ever get the nod that the real mom gets. So
[8:53]no matter how much you do for them or try to make them, you know, fill love and try to let them know
[8:59]that you're not trying to take their dad, that your kids aren't trying to take their dad from them,
[9:03]you never will ever get the true nod that they give to their own mom, which is perfectly normal.
[9:10]But sometimes you feel like, you know, wow, I'm doing so much and making such an effort
[9:16]and getting nothing in return. You know, there were those emotions too at times. But,
[9:23]you know, everybody, especially the children are innocent victims. And, you know,
[9:28]the bottom line is divorce is just a very destructive thing, very destructive. And you should
[9:33]avoid it at all costs. Too late for me. But, you know, and half the population. So,
[9:42]I don't feel that bad, I guess. But, you know, it's still. I'm just saying, you know,
[9:48]no, I'm kidding. I'm definitely something that should should not be taken lightly and not be
[9:52]done quickly. Yes, no, I completely agree with you. It's it's it's really horrific. You know,
[9:58]one of the other things.
[10:00]Your book that I thought was so awesome was your complete ownership of the fact that you're athletic because so often women just don't talk about that you can either be some sort of a female athlete and then the athletes talk about that in their books, but somebody like you who's like a basically rock star.
[10:17]Doesn't always have to you know, it doesn't always come out, but like hey, you know what I'm a really awesome you know softball player I can play tennis like really well or whatever so I just loved that.
[10:29]Well, thank you it's kind of a running joke because I do always brag about what a great athlete I am, but it's funny because you know people tend to like box you in and so they think of me as being a singer and that's it, you know you're a great singer.
[10:44]But it's fun to sometimes say well I have other talents to and I absolutely love playing sports I love to play tennis I love to play basketball I love to play softball and that's you know it's just something that like I was doing an interview about an hour ago and I talked about how I'm such a great athlete and the guy was like in your very humble to you and I'm like no I don't see it as bragging but like you said it's just an unknown fact that is fun to tell people about.
[11:14]No, that's not very nice. I mean no, I hate when people say that. Oh my gosh. No, I think it's amazing and you know it's like my little daughter just sort of like in here with me now and she here's this it's great I want to raise daughters who feel awesome about being athletic and it's really important and to have role models who don't just sing I mean there are plenty of you know role models who are amazing in that regard, but to do both.
[11:43]I mean it's just great it's just great.
[11:45]I find that a lot of athletes and musicians they kind of are connected like if a lot of times if you're a great musician you're also a great athlete.
[11:53]And if you're a great athlete you have a lot of musical talent so like my husband is a former NFL football player.
[11:59]He's an amazing most amazing athlete I've ever seen, but he also is very musical he can dance.
[12:05]So well and he has perfect rhythm and he can sing so I think there's something in the brain that says you know like my brain is telling my body do this.
[12:17]And you do it and being a singer is is being an athlete and I just went and got my vocal cords checked last year to you know make sure everything looks good and he was like your vocal cords are.
[12:31]And they look you know like the vocal cords of a 20 year old and he said so yeah you're you're basically a professional athlete.
[12:41]And because your vocal cords are a muscle so it's just like a throwing arm.
[12:47]You know your vocal cords are doing something basically athletic so it's just interesting to me the ties to that.
[12:55]For sure the brain is such a funny thing I mean I actually I found other things like I found a lot of writers are also great photographers or they're like all these things that kind of like go.
[13:06]And like if you're a if you're a makeup artist usually you're you're an incredible like painter and you can draw and like all the connections there.
[13:16]totally fascinating it's kind of not fair it's like really your husband gets to be an NFL athlete and also.
[13:24]I know scattered the skills around other people who can't do either things.
[13:31]But you know what I those are really the only two things I'm good at music and athletics but also I think I'm a great mom that's great I bet you are a great mom.
[13:41]Certainly like not shamed me but you've given me great advice in this book that I feel like I needed to hear so anyway.
[13:49]What's the biggest piece of advice that you feel like you needed to hear like interviewing you now.
[13:57]You know your whole like keeping the kids humble doing chores around the house like not letting them just like sit around like you go get stuff you know don't let them be complacent.
[14:10]All of the like you know down to the like I said before just even something as simple as a napkin or sitting down and having a meal and enforcing all of that it's just I mean I know it all it's just I don't know.
[14:23]If it's I think I can't remember who what speaker it is or if I got it from that.
[14:30]You know the the rules that George Washington wrote what were those called do you know what I'm talking about.
[14:36]No not really I mean I've heard it I know I don't know what the name would be but it's a famous like a little book that he wrote as a kid.
[14:44]And it talks about it's basically like good manners and what to do and not to do like common sense and one of the things is you know don't don't make extra noise or whistle.
[14:56]Or you know tap your fingers on something or you know when you're around people because that's annoying and that's something that George Washington thought was important you know to.
[15:07]So the other things was I think I think this is where I heard this or read it but he said you know don't ever stop like doing the things that are important.
[15:17]In other words like it is important to get a plate and sit down with a meal like do things that are proper as often as you can so that you don't just you know totally.
[15:30]And you know your life be so basic that are not basic because I almost want to go back to the basics I guess is what I'm saying.
[15:38]Yeah, now like in your back when you were saying you said here I'll just read you a passage that was particularly relevant.
[15:44]So all you're doing when you refuse to discipline is ensuring that your precious child will have a hard time in life and in relationships why would any loving parent do that.
[15:52]I'm selfish in my opinion they are being lazy and parenting ways that make them feel good like letting your child play Xbox all day, why do some parents do this because it's easier than making them stop.
[16:03]And that's just so true and at the end you say when kids are little they're going to cry so let them cry you're doing your job all caps they will thank you for it later when you don't push back on a child who's being willful or disrespectful they sense that you don't really care and that is heartbreaking.
[16:17]I read this my son was like playing video games all day but I was.
[16:21]I was back in school so I feel better but I was like literally like oh gosh she sees that I'm like you know not letting my kid.
[16:28]Well it's no true you know if your child is born this this blank slate okay and it's so sad to me when you see parents who won't discipline their child afraid to upset their child.
[16:42]And so they are parenting in ways that make them feel good and with so many divorced families in the world there are so many divorced dads.
[16:53]Who aren't raising their children when they have them in the time that they have with them who aren't raising their children the way that they would have but now they're raising them out of guilt.
[17:04]You know I don't get much time with them so I want everything to be great but I'm like that's selfish on your part because you know the child did not ask to be raised in a divorce situation and so you still need to.
[17:18]Be that dad be hard on them discipline them spank them if they need a spanking all those things you can't parent in ways that that just benefit you emotionally you have to parent in ways that benefit your kids long term.
[17:33]Another part of your story that I related to a lot was sort of was how you talked about your weight gain when you had kids and the pressure to like get fit again and sort of just your lifelong relationship with your body where do you stand on that now.
[17:49]I'm not any better you know I have a daily struggle with food you know I feel like I really do have somewhat of an eating disorder in the sense that you know every time I eat I'm mad at myself and every time I eat I guilt myself even if I'm starving and.
[18:08]You know just about to drop over from hunger but then every time after I eat I have this remorse and fear like what I hope I didn't just gain weight or now am I going to look fat for the rest of the day or tomorrow.
[18:24]It's a very unhealthy relationship with food and very unhealthy body image and I work on it a lot and since I wrote this book last spring this past May both of my girls decided to sit me down and confront me about it and they were just like.
[18:43]And it was very difficult for me because I had to swallow my pride but I you know I can't be a hypocrite I talk in the book about you have to apologize to your children when you've done something wrong and you have to not be afraid that that will undermine your authority because it won't it will make them trust you more.
[19:02]You basically said you have to stop talking bad about yourself you have to stop talking about I'm fat or I'm skinny.
[19:09]And they really got on to me hard and they said you know you have two teenage daughters you cannot do that in your beautiful and you're our mom and we only see beauty when we look at you so when every time you criticize yourself.
[19:23]And criticize your body or criticize that you know something about us aging that hurts us and it's also probably causing harm to us psychologically so you have to stop.
[19:35]So I really have tried a lot and I try to be so mindful when I'm around them not to ever say oh feel so fat or I'm trying so hard to be skinny.
[19:46]But it's definitely I'm a work in progress I'm not at all where I should be well I mean there are no shoulds on this journey it's like a lifelong thing right everybody.
[19:57]Most women are struggling in some way.
[20:00]shape or form, either. I mean, it's just, it's easy to say I should be over this by now,
[20:05]but, yeah, that's not the way it works. I think that's amazing. I think it's just really,
[20:10]I mean, it shows what kind of mom you are to raise daughters who would then sit you down
[20:14]to have a conversation like that. You know, it's like, that's really sort of self-aware and
[20:19]mature of them to be able to talk to you about it. How did it like, were you sort of proud of them
[20:24]at the same time? Like, I feel like I would be like hurt and proud. I was hurt. My feelings
[20:31]were hurt. Sorry. And I was tempted to be defensive. I wanted to defend myself and be like,
[20:38]well, you have no idea what it feels like, you know, to be in your 40s and you guys can
[20:43]eat whatever you want. And you're skinny. And both of my daughters are stunningly beautiful. And
[20:48]they have, you know, very naturally skinny bodies. And so I wanted to be defensive. You don't
[20:54]know what it's like, but I basically just like was pinching myself the whole time. Like, this response
[21:02]could mean everything. And so I responded with you're right. You're right. I don't know why this
[21:11]makes me cry. Oh, sorry. I'm probably just exhausted. I understand. I understand. I mean,
[21:19]look, it's hard to admit our vulnerabilities. And it's hard for our kids to see our weaknesses.
[21:24]And yeah, they're on display in front of them more than anybody else. You know, and it's
[21:29]yeah, that's right. I feel like I'm just entering. I'm just entering. So like, I'm, you know,
[21:36]feel like I'm losing even more control of how my body responds to food as you age and your
[21:44]metabolism slows down. And so in some ways, I'm like, oh, my God, I'm just beginning this fight.
[21:51]And now it's a whole new fight because I used to be able to say, well, I'm going to start myself
[21:55]for this video shoot so that I look great. And it's hard because, you know, models and actors
[22:03]are rail thin yet women are told, women are told two things at the same time. You should look
[22:11]like this in order to look like this model does in this free people dress. But at the same time,
[22:18]we're shamed for talking about our bodies. And oh, you shouldn't talk about that in front of
[22:24]your daughters because, you know, it might cause them to be anorexic or whatever. But we're given
[22:29]two messages at the same time. And it's not fair because, you know, if they really want to make
[22:37]young girls have a healthier attitude about their body image, then they need to use more realistic
[22:44]models for their clothes. But they're not going to do that because the clothes won't look as good.
[22:48]So it's a really, really tough thing to overcome and figure out.
[22:53]I couldn't agree more. I'm 44 years old. And like, I used to be able to eat, you know,
[22:59]this cookie every night or whatever it is I'm, you know, currently, you know, I used to be able to
[23:05]go a couple days without working out and nothing would happen. And now I'm like, I think everything
[23:10]is tight today. Really? Just because of that same cookie. Absolutely. I mean, I feel like, you know,
[23:16]in all these years of not eating and then eating and not eating, my metabolism is really shot.
[23:22]But you do. I mean, honestly, two days of, you know, over eating or even eating like a normal person
[23:32]can potentially undo any strides I've made and just make me feel totally fat. And so again,
[23:41]it's a really, really tough thing. I don't know that I'll ever be over it. I feel like
[23:46]you know, if I'm skinny, all of my best memories in life or times when I was skinny,
[23:51]all my worst memories in life were times when I was fat. And that's how I divide it. And it's
[23:57]terrible. It's crazy to think that way. But when I'm skinny, life is great, you know, I love
[24:03]clothes. And so when I'm skinny, there's no stopping me. I'm on top of the world. But if I feel
[24:10]fat or I am fat, then I feel like a complete loser. So I probably need therapy.
[24:17]I mean, I can recommend a few people. I actually know I'm really interested in all of this and
[24:23]have had like close friends and everybody really struggle with, you know, inpatient eating disorders
[24:29]to be honest. And I worked for the Yale Center for Eating and Weight Disorders and almost became
[24:33]a psychologist. So and, you know, of course, I've had my own struggles with my own body forever. And
[24:38]just, you know, recently, I've been like, well, you know what, like, I mean, I'm not like, you
[24:42]I'm not, I'm not on stage. And I'm not, you know, my, my, how I look like who cares, you know,
[24:48]I'm like behind a microphone here. And, you know, I don't have a public persona like you do. So
[24:52]it's totally different. But just as like a woman, I'm kind of like, well, you know what, like,
[24:57]am I happier thinner? Like, I'm pretty happy right now. And I'm definitely not at my like low
[25:02]weight. You know, so maybe, maybe it's not, maybe that's not the answer, right? So maybe I am
[25:09]going to be this way. Maybe now I'm thinner than I'm going to be. Maybe I'm right.
[25:13]I look like this, right? So you just, I don't know. I did this whole study a couple years ago for
[25:20]an article I was writing where I, because my grandmother is still, she's 97. And until a couple
[25:26]years ago, now she's starting to have dementia, but, you know, we would be having dinner and she'd
[25:29]be like, oh God, I shouldn't have that cake. Oh my gosh. Like, do I look as fat as that woman?
[25:34]And I'd be like, guggy. Come on. Like, does this never end? And so then I started wondering,
[25:39]does it ever end? Like, I don't think we'll ever end for me. And, you know, I was raised that way too.
[25:44]Like, my granny was always talking about, you know, stay thin and don't get fat. And my mom was
[25:50]saying, you know, you're just 10 pounds away from being famous. And that, of course, was a joke.
[25:54]But, you know, have you seen marvelous Mrs. Maisel? Yes, of course. You know, how she would get
[26:01]up every morning and measure her waste every morning to ensure that she had not, you know, grown
[26:06]and entered, gained any weight at whatsoever. I feel like my life is, well, my weight and my body
[26:14]is one of, you know, probably what I think about more than anything all the time on a daily basis.
[26:21]And so I just think it's a struggle that, I mean, it's not debilitating in any way, shape or form.
[26:26]But it's definitely distracting. Yeah. Well, look, everybody, we all have our things, right?
[26:33]I mean, everyone has their, their things. And all we can do is just kind of work on it, right?
[26:39]It doesn't mean fix it. And it doesn't mean that sometimes our innermost struggles aren't
[26:46]publicly showing, right? And that's the thing that we do. I feel like everything,
[26:50]you know, the other thing is maybe addiction or I don't know other things you can kind of hide,
[26:54]right? But weight is like if you're having a bed week or three or eight months or whatever people see
[27:01]it. Yeah, exactly. But any few more all the time is, you know, definitely adds to it and having to
[27:07]be on stage. And, you know, if I see a bad picture of me on stage, like I talk about this in the book,
[27:12]it can run my day. I mean, I'll never forget, I'm sitting here with my manager right now. And one
[27:16]time, he and my stylist and I were on the tour bus in this country weekly magazine came out. And
[27:25]with a photo sheet that I had done and an interview for the magazine, and they didn't give us,
[27:30]you know, final approval on the pictures. And so one of the pictures in there was absolutely
[27:34]terrible. It was like from the back. And I had on like really tight jeans. I had like back fat. And
[27:40]it was, it was so devastating to me. And they both couldn't really grasp like why. I mean, I think
[27:46]my stylist kind of laughed about it. I went back to the room in the back of my bus and sobbed,
[27:53]like I sobbed in my bed because I was so embarrassed, so embarrassed by that.
[28:01]You know, I think that it's so important to be talking about this because like here you are,
[28:06]and we started off talking about how great you are at sports and how athletic a body you have,
[28:12]right? Like you're so good. You're vocal cords and you're athleticism and you're singing and you
[28:18]have all these amazing skills and things your body's given you. And yet like a little thing, like a
[28:24]bad picture. And I understand why it gets you because I feel the same way. I get it. It's just such
[28:29]a shame that so many of us build this way, especially you. We have an all you've accomplished. I mean,
[28:35]I feel like so many people out there would be like, oh, if only I could be Sarah Evans for like a
[28:40]a minute, right? And here you are like looking at one picture and crying. It breaks my heart,
[28:44]honestly, you know, what does it mean to be success? What does it mean to be a successful woman,
[28:48]you know, all that stuff? Yeah. And there, yeah, there are definitely different aspects and
[28:52]different levels. And you know, your life is like a big circle and you've got all these like,
[28:59]you know, points to your life and then all the stuff in the middle. So that is just, you know,
[29:04]one aspect of my life. But overall, though, honestly, you know, I'm incredibly grateful,
[29:12]you know, for having been given this talent to seeing and this life that I've had and,
[29:17]you know, my children are the biggest blessing in my life. So I am incredibly grateful. And again,
[29:23]like I said, it's not debilitating. It's just, you know, something that will probably always be a
[29:28]part of who I am. I just, I want to be skinny and that's it, you know, but I think so does
[29:33]the world, you know, so do 90% of the women in the world. But, you know, I felt it was necessary to
[29:39]talk about it in the book to say to other women, like, I get it and I'm right there with you.
[29:46]Yeah. Well, that's amazing. It's so it's great. I'm so glad that you did it and that you're
[29:52]sort of opening up the conversation. I mean, it's really, really important. And you know, in addition
[29:57]all your other stuff, you've written this great book.
[30:00]I mean, it's a really great book and it helps people
[30:03]relate and feel us alone and all the rest of it.
[30:05]Having written the book, like would you have any advice
[30:08]to aspiring authors out there?
[30:10]Oh, gosh, I don't know that I'm qualified to give advice
[30:13]as to an author, you know, because I can't even imagine
[30:18]writing an amazing novel.
[30:19]Like I recently just read, I'm used to reading again,
[30:22]and I read it like four times.
[30:24]I can't even imagine the talent that it takes to do that.
[30:27]But I would just say with an aspiring anyone, you know,
[30:32]going into anything, you know, my biggest lesson
[30:35]that I've learned in life is that you have to be fully committed
[30:38]to something and willing to work very, very hard.
[30:42]And also, you have to surround yourself with great people,
[30:45]people who, you know, truly understand you and get you
[30:48]and love you and want to support and advance your career
[30:52]but at the same time understand who you are as a human being
[30:55]and what your priorities are.
[30:57]So whatever you aspire to do, make sure you connect to really
[31:01]great people.
[31:03]That's excellent advice.
[31:04]That's really great.
[31:06]Well, Sarah, thank you for talking.
[31:08]I'm sorry.
[31:09]I made you cry and I was so happy that we got a chance to talk
[31:14]and I find your, you know, your candid thoughts about this,
[31:18]you know, personally, just super helpful.
[31:21]And, you know, it's something that doesn't get talked about
[31:24]enough, really, especially for women our age, I feel like.
[31:27]So anyway, thank you for opening up.
[31:29]And thanks for writing the book.
[31:32]This was like a therapy session.
[31:33]Thank you so much.
[31:34]Thanks for having me.
[31:35]Of course, it was my pleasure.
[31:37]Have a great day.
[31:38]Bye, Sarah.
[31:38]Bye.
[31:40]Thanks so much to firstbook.org for sponsoring
[31:43]this Labor Day book blast.
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[31:48]to help their network of 475,000 educators serving children in need.
[31:53]Thanks for listening to this episode of Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books.
[31:56]Don't forget to follow me on Instagram, at Zibi Owens, and at Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books.
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[32:08]Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan at Texture Sound for the Sound Editing.
[32:12]And thank you to Morning Moon Productions for providing this fantastic intro and outro music.