Nancy Jooyoun Kim, THE LAST STORY OF MINA LEE
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[1:48]critical time. Visit firstbook.org to help foreign and raised in Los Angeles. Nancy
[1:54]Jude Kim is a graduate of UCLA and the University of Washington, Seattle. Her essays and short
[1:59]fiction have appeared in the Los Angeles Review of Books, Guernica, NPR, PRI, selected shorts,
[2:04]the Rumpus, Electric Literature, Asian American Writers Workshop, the Margins, the Offing, and
[2:10]elsewhere. The last story of Mina Lee is her first novel. Hi! Hi! How are you? How are you? Nice to meet you, too.
[2:19]Well, thanks for coming on mom's don't have time to read books. I am really excited to talk about
[2:23]your book and your life and all the rest, so thanks for coming on. Thank you so much for having
[2:28]me. It's an honor. So, Nancy, can you tell people who haven't read your book yet, which is probably
[2:32]most people because it's just coming out what your book is about and what inspired you to write it?
[2:36]The last story of Mina Lee takes place in Los Angeles's Korea town. It's about a complex mother
[2:42]daughter relationship between a Korean immigrant single mother named Mina and her American born
[2:48]daughter, a named Margot. The book begins with a death. Margot discovers her mother's body
[2:54]in their apartment and the plot of wines in a kind of dual narrative that alternates between
[3:00]the mother's point of view on the past and a daughter's point of view in the present and sort of
[3:06]during this process, Margot not only learns more about her mother's life, but she learns about
[3:11]her own life and her own self as well. Sounds great. Yeah, that's the perfect description.
[3:18]Our whole team, a mystery mother daughter, it's like all the elements. This is like right out
[3:23]my alley. Yeah, I just really wanted to write about the sort of complex interdependence between
[3:30]mothers and daughters, the ways they sometimes, the ways that they need love and sometimes even
[3:36]resent each other. So I think this sort of premise allowed me to sort of explore all the different
[3:42]nuances of being in a mother daughter relationship and also having the extra, which the tensions are
[3:48]heightened by the sort of differences in language because Mina only speaks Korean in a little bit of
[3:54]well, Margot speaks primarily English. And so as you can imagine as a teenager, as she gets older
[4:00]and she wants to describe her feelings and her motivations to her mother, she hits all of these
[4:05]blocks and it becomes extremely frustrating for her. It's hard to imagine a relationship without
[4:11]fluid language between two parties, right? It's like that's the cornerstone of how you relate
[4:16]to somebody that you love and to have that taken away, especially between that close, you know,
[4:22]a mother daughter relationship is, for sure worth examining and what happens then dot dot dot
[4:28]right. So yeah, and there are so many, there are lines within the book where, you know,
[4:33]Margot says things like, you know, what would be the point of me learning Korean because she
[4:37]only thinks that she needs it to speak to one person in her life. Yeah. Yet it requires
[4:42]her mother's death for her to finally realize what that exactly means because suddenly her mother
[4:48]dies and her mother is her only connection to family and she becomes kind of untethered in this
[4:53]world. You know, which is quite devastating for her, but we watch her sort of pull through and
[4:59]I think the mystery itself of her mother's death gives her like this distraction from her grief.
[5:04]Yes. You had a quote in the beginning when Margot is talking to her friend and you say agreeing
[5:11]to the same white lie is what makes family, family he says. And she was like, well, what about
[5:16]if people agree? What if it's what a family agrees to two truths? And he's like, well, I don't know
[5:20]maybe they're scientists. Yeah, that was kind of a little, you know, not toward, I think, you know,
[5:28]sometimes the fragility of the stories that our families tell ourselves to sort of survive and the
[5:34]ways in which we, you know, parents and children, sometimes we keep things from each other no matter
[5:40]how much we love each other because we're attempting to either protect the other person or protect
[5:45]ourselves. And that's a very human impulse in my opinion. You know, sometimes obviously Margot has
[5:51]a lot of reasons to be angry at her mother for keeping secrets from her. But at the same time,
[5:56]I think as she gets to know more and more the depth of her mother's story and how complicated she
[6:01]was, she could see how her mother in order to survive just literally had to submerge so much of
[6:07]her history in her past just to get through everyday life. I mean, I think it's hard to just,
[6:12]you know, be a single mother, working class single mother and just imagining how she can work
[6:18]so many hours a day and also attempting to process things with her daughter, explain things to
[6:22]her daughter in a different language, which is almost impossible in a way, you know, in a way that's
[6:27]nuanced and sort of complicated. And so, you know, I think through this process, Margot kind of
[6:32]forgives her mother in an interesting way. And obviously this book is just the beginning of that
[6:38]relationship in a lot of ways. So I was wondering with the book how much this is tracking your
[6:44]own life? And he wrote so beautifully about your father and his tragic death on his way home from
[6:49]a hiking accident. Your mother and both of their stories and when they came to the United States,
[6:54]you wrote in Guernica and Los Angeles Review of Books. And I felt like I really got to know
[6:59]your whole backstory. But maybe you could share a little more about what it was like,
[7:03]you're knowing their stories. And also even your father's sort of reticence to share
[7:08]his past and the pain that he messed in the past and then how his leaving your family sort of
[7:15]affected you. I think in a lot a lot of immigration stories, there's there's so much trauma involved
[7:21]usually a lot of times immigrants are either running from something or running towards something.
[7:27]And so I think something that I, even though this novel is not out of biographical,
[7:31]I think that something that I could really relate to are the types of silences that exist within
[7:37]families and how kind of loaded those silences can be in the ways in which daily life won't allow
[7:43]you to sort of access the truths behind those silences until something as horrifying as what happens
[7:49]to Margot, which is finding her mother's body and their apartment happens. And so like Margot,
[7:55]you know, we in within my own family, my father spoke English, but my mother, she didn't speak English.
[8:01]And so a lot of the tensions and the misunderstandings that happened between mother and daughter,
[8:06]that's something that I could definitely relate to. And it's a very difficult to describe
[8:11]unless you've experienced it because it seems like how could you live with somebody under the same
[8:15]roof and not speak the same language? Like it just almost doesn't make sense. But I think growing
[8:21]you know, parents and children, the language that they use is typically elementary. It's things
[8:28]like, did you do your homework? Did you go to school? You know, what did you eat today? And so there's
[8:33]this point I think where Margot just begins to grow separately from her mother as an adolescent
[8:40]and she sort of begins to ban in her past as she gets closer towards going to college and
[8:44]like thinking about what she wants to do with her own life. And so these are all sort of frustrations
[8:50]and things that I could definitely relate to. And Mina never really needs to know English to get by.
[8:56]And that's kind of one of the beauties of ethnic enclaves, places like Korea Town, Chinatown,
[9:01]where people can sort of come to this country and they can survive and they can work and find
[9:07]basic ways of getting by without learning the language because pretty much in Korea Town,
[9:12]you can, you know, you have an accountant, you have a bank, you have a post office,
[9:16]and Mina works in a mostly Latinx area of LA. And so she really only needs a little bit of
[9:22]Spanish to communicate with her customers. And so as Mina is spending so much time at work and then
[9:28]Margot is focusing on figuring out how to get out of Korea Town, they really split apart. And so
[9:34]these are definitely frustrations that I think that I can relate to and a lot of other
[9:38]immigrants and the children of immigrants can relate to. 100%. You also included in the book
[9:44]what it was like growing up sort of looking different. And I don't know if this was your experience
[9:47]grandpa in LA. This was just fictitious for Margot's background. But how is she kind of long to
[9:53]look like all these tall blonde hair, you know, beautiful white students? Yes, I would also love to
[9:58]look like a tall blonde.
[10:00]I think that's like a common
[10:03]aspiration.
[10:04]But yeah, what's interesting is I think the assumption is that if you grew up in a
[10:08]diverse places, you have exposures to so many different, you know,
[10:12]types forms of beauty and sort of concepts of beauty.
[10:15]And so Margot does grow up around a very diverse group of people.
[10:19]But I think at the end of the day, she is very lonely growing up because she has no siblings.
[10:24]Her mother works all day long.
[10:26]She only really sees her mother at night when she's very tired or over the
[10:29]weekends when she's helping her mom and her mother's store in a swan meat.
[10:32]And so she spends probably so many of her hours of her life watching
[10:37]television.
[10:38]And I think that's so much of like children's formation of how they sort of view
[10:43]the world and how the world is idealized is through TV.
[10:47]And, you know, I'm imagining Margot growing up in the 80s and 90s,
[10:50]and sure there were some forms of diversity on television at the point,
[10:53]but I don't feel like she had a ton of, you know, role models necessarily.
[10:57]I don't think she necessarily saw herself in a lot of the television or the movies
[11:02]that she was seeing.
[11:04]And so there's this sense that there's a gap between her lived experience
[11:08]and what she's seeing in this sort of public and social way.
[11:12]Like, if I had those things, you know, that is what success looks like.
[11:17]And so there's this huge gap, which is actually really sad when you think about it
[11:20]because in many ways Margot's mother, even if Mina,
[11:24]even though she doesn't fit the traditional standards of success in her country,
[11:28]in many ways she is a successful person.
[11:30]I mean, she is a woman who, you know, had so little and managed to sort of create a life for herself.
[11:36]She managed to feed her children.
[11:37]She managed to center children to school.
[11:39]I think being a single mother is a huge accomplishment in and of itself.
[11:43]And especially in a country that's so foreign to her.
[11:46]And so there's this huge gap in understanding where Margot sees her mother as representing,
[11:51]you know, everything she doesn't want to be when she grows up.
[11:53]Right? She doesn't want to be, she wants to have a nice middle,
[11:56]at least the middle class life, you know,
[11:58]she wants to have certain nice things in her life.
[12:00]But in reality, if she had known more about her mother's story,
[12:04]I think she would have appreciated her a lot more and seen like, wow,
[12:07]this woman is actually very heroic, you know?
[12:10]I think it takes a lot for kids to actually get out of their own minds
[12:14]and consider their parents to be heroes, especially at a young age.
[12:18]But even I would argue a lot of time.
[12:20]I mean, I think it's very hard to be objective sometimes as a child.
[12:23]Yeah. Even an adult child for some people, you know?
[12:27]All right, because our parents will always be the people who are like reminding us of like,
[12:32]what we're not quite doing, you know?
[12:35]Even if you have a very, you know,
[12:37]you're in a very loving environment and obviously they're doing that for specific reason.
[12:41]But I think as children,
[12:43]we can sometimes see our parents as like, you know, the boss, the,
[12:47]the person who doesn't see me for who I am.
[12:51]There's so many ways that, you know,
[12:53]I think parents and children.
[12:55]I mean, and I think that's what makes this book really interesting
[12:58]is that it's sort of interested in the sort of nuances of those emotions.
[13:02]Even if some of them are uncomfortable or maybe even,
[13:05]I don't want to say embarrassing,
[13:07]but I think they're hard to write about and talk about.
[13:09]Yeah. I mean,
[13:10]basically, Margot just wants to roll on Beverly Hills 9 or 2 and out.
[13:14]And like, what is she going to do instead?
[13:16]She's like, how do you create town and whatever?
[13:19]So, you know, she's never going to be happy in that environment.
[13:22]Right, exactly.
[13:24]Yeah, that's tough.
[13:25]I'm sure she'll watch 9 or 2 and out.
[13:27]Of course.
[13:28]Who did it? Come on.
[13:30]So how did you become such a good writer?
[13:33]Because I really feel like you are a fabulous, fabulous writer.
[13:36]Your nonfiction stories about yourself really read almost like novels
[13:40]and made me so excited to read your actual novel.
[13:43]How did you do this?
[13:45]Did you tell me about your whole writing history?
[13:47]That's just a way to view.
[13:49]You know, I've been writing for a really long time.
[13:51]Like, I started probably when I was a kid.
[13:54]You know, just sort of playfully imaginatively.
[13:57]I used to draw these little cartoons and write these little stories
[14:01]with like the plants would be characters.
[14:04]And the lawn mower was the bad guy.
[14:06]So, you know, I remember writing these really sort of elementary stories as a kid.
[14:10]And then in junior high and high school I started writing really bad poetry,
[14:14]which I think a lot of kids at that age, right?
[14:17]You know, whether they're writing bad poetry or like writing really melodramatic songs.
[14:22]You know, so I definitely had that streak in me.
[14:25]Really writing for me has just been about, I've had streaks in my life
[14:29]where I've just had to, you know, my work was just too demanding.
[14:33]But writing for me has really just been about practice and discipline
[14:38]and kind of endurance in a lot of ways.
[14:40]So, I feel like I just put the time in the hours.
[14:43]And I know that's really hard to do for most people.
[14:46]The way that I was able to really complete this novel after so many years
[14:50]because I graduated from an MFA program in 2006.
[14:54]So, that was like 14 years ago.
[14:56]And so, and since then I've written two novels and this is the only one to be published.
[15:00]For me, what worked is to find the story that literally only I could tell.
[15:05]And once I had a sense of purpose, I think to my writing,
[15:09]it made the sort of discipline required a little bit more accessible, I would say.
[15:15]Because I don't necessarily consider myself, I mean, writing as a discipline is really hard
[15:19]because I think there's no obvious rewards immediately.
[15:22]Nobody really knows what you're doing.
[15:24]Everybody's like, oh, you're writing a novel.
[15:26]That's those fun, you know, but they don't really get what's going on behind the scenes.
[15:31]And there's no really real way to explain it very well.
[15:34]Also, while you're working on it, it just sounds like some abstract story.
[15:38]And you're still figuring it out.
[15:40]So, you can't even really talk about it.
[15:42]So, for me, it was really about what helped me was to find the story that I felt only I could tell.
[15:48]And to have that sort of sense of purpose behind what I was doing.
[15:53]And once I had that sense of purpose, I think I was able to sort of like muster the discipline
[15:58]that I think I needed to actually complete the book.
[16:01]So, what was that sense of purpose that you felt?
[16:04]Like, what did you need to get out with this book?
[16:06]What was the driving force?
[16:08]I felt that there, you know, I feel like this book, it's a story that I had never read before.
[16:14]I feel like it's something that captured things that I have always wanted to say to either my mother or maybe to other people.
[16:22]And that I could not say in real life.
[16:25]And so, that's kind of the beauty of what fiction can do that I think is really amazing.
[16:32]I remember when I was an undergrad and Sondersez Narrows had given a talk.
[16:36]And somebody was, this was many years ago, like probably 15, 16 years ago.
[16:41]And somebody in the audience asked her, you know, they loved the dialogue in her novels and where they based upon like real conversations in her family.
[16:49]And she said something like, no, they're conversations that I always wished had happened.
[16:54]And so I think the purpose of this novel is in a way to create a kind of impossible conversation that could have never happened while, you know, was still living between a daughter and a mother.
[17:06]You know, and so I feel like to have that sense of purpose of having this extraordinarily important conversation and talk between two people who really love each other but can't quite access each other really gave me this sort of kind of focused my attention in a way that sort of narrowed it.
[17:23]It made it a lot easier to accomplish.
[17:26]As opposed to thinking, like, I want to write about immigration or I want to write about, you know, like just to sort of really sort of zero in on something that felt manageable to me.
[17:35]And on the way, obviously I would explore all sorts of other things, you know.
[17:39]Totally. Wow.
[17:40]So then when you were actually doing the writing in that space where nobody really understands what you're doing.
[17:46]Where did you like to do that? Like, where did you work when and where, like, did you, what did you do the rest of the day when you weren't writing and all of that?
[17:53]So I actually began really focusing on this novel during a point of transition in my life.
[17:59]I was living in Seattle working a full-time job.
[18:01]My husband got a job down in California and so it allowed me to sort of start all over because now I had to find a new job.
[18:09]I began to put together sort of freelance editing projects and sort of more projects based work so I can work from home.
[18:16]And so for me, this novel really was written in the mornings before I had to do my regular day job.
[18:23]So I try to put together at least two to three hours per day working on my book.
[18:28]And yeah, just, and I try to work on about five days a week.
[18:32]And that's very hard for a lot of people to do.
[18:34]And the first is whether it's because they have children or, you know, the demands of their job.
[18:38]But I found that working on a book almost every day allowed me to access almost a kind of like fluidity or sort of subconscious space.
[18:48]Where I was returning to something and there's something kind of like meditative about it.
[18:52]You know, and I think it's probably similar to how like, you know, you know,
[18:57]professional athletes or certain artists, you know, have to kind of wake up and just requires this sort of like discipline where you get into it.
[19:03]And it's a little bit easier every time.
[19:06]And so yeah, that's kind of was the process for me.
[19:08]I just woke up in the morning and try to get it out of the way first because it's like if I waited till later, like life would just take over.
[19:18]Yeah.
[19:19]That's how I feel about exercise, which is why I basically never exercise.
[19:22]Yeah.
[19:23]It's almost, it's actually very, very similar.
[19:25]And then for the rest of the day, you feel recharged and you feel like you've gotten something done.
[19:29]And so that was kind of necessary for me.
[19:31]Yeah.
[19:32]As opposed to maybe not getting out of your pajamas all day or so.
[19:36]In pandemic mode.
[19:39]What has this time been like for you with your book sort of the launch at the end, you know, when we went into the pandemic mode and March or whatever.
[19:46]I'm sure your book release felt so far away and now suddenly like here we still are and it's coming out.
[19:51]How is this whole thing been for you?
[19:53]I mean, it's, you know, obviously there's aspects of it that are so difficult.
[19:58]And you know, I mean, it's, it's.
[20:00]kind of, you know, nobody imagines the situation when they're thinking of, you know,
[20:04]oh, I've been writing for this long and I'm finally having my first book out,
[20:09]but now it's like I can't even like, you know, go out and celebrate or I can't even,
[20:13]you know, there's so much that I can't do, that I would love to do. I can't go to my bookstore
[20:17]and like see my book on the shelf, that's like one of the dreams, I think, you know what I mean?
[20:22]But at the same time, I'm just, I try to just remain grateful every single day. I know that this
[20:27]has, like, been such a huge honor to have a book out in the world. I feel like, you know,
[20:32]people who will connect with this book, I mean, you know, will connect with this book,
[20:36]I don't find a way to it. The story matters to me, you know, obviously I want people to read it,
[20:41]but just that this story exists and is out and there's this possibility of people finding it.
[20:46]It's really wonderful to me. And so every day I just try to remain grateful for that.
[20:50]And I'm actually loving the virtual aspect of things, to be honest, because I feel like I'm
[20:54]able to do a little bit more than I normally would be able to, you know, like I'm able to connect
[20:59]with writers in different regions and there's no travel involved. And it's kind of fun going to
[21:04]online readings because you don't have to put on shoes. Yep. And you can turn off your camera and
[21:10]like, you know, you don't have to put on anything, you know, pretty much. And you know,
[21:14]but you can still be a part of this community. And so I do think that there have been some,
[21:19]you know, plusses to it in a way. I love going to book readings and, you know, I have four kids
[21:23]and it's often hard to like get to Brooklyn and for seven on a Tuesday or something like that.
[21:28]So I felt like I was always missing out. And sometimes I would go to book readings and there would
[21:32]be like 10 people there, which is crazy. Even though the authors are like super amazing and the book
[21:37]was fabulous, but it's hard to get people all to sort of congregate at these appointed times.
[21:42]And now I feel like we can all pop in to bookstores, you know, across the world if we want.
[21:48]It's there. It is like a sense of liberation in that. Yeah. And you can have dinner while you're
[21:54]yeah, which I know sounds weird, but you know what I mean? I mean, you can. I mean, you can do all,
[22:00]I mean, there's fewer excuses almost. And so, and I've been to some wonderful readings. And I
[22:04]think, you know, I mean, I really miss the live events. And I miss there's always the hanging out
[22:10]afterwards. And there's always like the energy of those events. But at the same time, I think we're
[22:14]doing pretty well considering circumstances. I mean, maybe you shouldn't actually eat dinner while
[22:19]you're giving a reading, but maybe if you're in the audience, it would be. When you're in the audience,
[22:23]I mean, okay, good. Okay. I'm picturing you like rolling up for like, you know, you can
[22:28]have a hundred dinner. You can hold laundry. Yeah. It's true. The question of like no video
[22:34]always being an option is huge. I mean, who knows what people are doing? That would be like
[22:38]kind of a fun. I'm sure somebody's done a funny skit about what people are actually doing behind
[22:42]the black little boxes in the Zoom screens, but they're funnier than I could potentially ever be.
[22:46]So, so who knows? So have you found it easy or hard to write during this time? Have you been
[22:52]working on a new project or what's coming next for you? I've started working on a new novel,
[22:56]which also sort of takes place outside of Los Angeles's Korea town. It's about as sort of
[23:01]separations, the silences within a family after mysterious death of the mother five years ago.
[23:07]And so I am still writing. I'm probably not as productive as I was before the pandemic,
[23:12]obviously, because there's so much going on in our world. But yeah, it's been a comfort. I love it.
[23:18]I just just getting back into the pages. This is my favorite stage of the process. I love the
[23:24]early stages when you're like just learning about your characters and you're like, oh my gosh,
[23:29]you know, you get this idea just out of nowhere or like you're in a scene and they say something
[23:35]and then it makes you realize like maybe she's suggesting something about her past, you know?
[23:40]So there's this really like interesting part of discovery that I love in this stage. So it's great.
[23:46]I love this part. This is the best part actually, the beginnings because once you start revising,
[23:51]it gets so hard. Yeah, because you're out of that same mental head space that you've
[23:57]referred to before. And now you just have to like kind of dip into it in certain parts. So
[24:03]yeah, and then you have to figure out all of your inconsistencies. You know, that's when you start getting
[24:07]really sharp about things and you start realizing like, oh, there's this plot line that just totally
[24:12]just like dropped off. And now I have to remove that and figure out why that was in there in the
[24:17]first place. So yeah, right now it's like a really good time in terms of where I am and with my next
[24:22]book. And in terms of this book selling and the publishing sort of journey, if you will,
[24:27]what's this synopsis of like how you sold your book and how that all happened?
[24:31]It really began with an agent finding me. She actually read that Gernica piece that you're
[24:36]referring to about my father. It's called Heaven Lake. It was so great. Oh, thank you so much.
[24:41]My agent, who's incredible Emil is with Bishop sort of just reached out to me and she said,
[24:45]do you have anything? And I was like, oh, well, I do actually have this novel that I've been
[24:50]working on for about five, five years. And yeah, so it was a pretty straightforward experience.
[24:58]I didn't have the same experience with my first novel that I wrote, which was went through like
[25:02]20 rejections and like over 20 rejections. And so this was a much more straightforward experience.
[25:08]I think, and I think it's because of what I was talking about earlier, just having that sense of
[25:13]purpose, that really clear sense of purpose. And you know, a lot of times people wonder like,
[25:17]where am I, where am I going to find this story that only I can tell? Like, where am I going to
[25:22]as, you know, like that sounds like some kind of magical thing that drops in your left.
[25:25]I think it's a more a matter of just finding and being true to what truly keeps you up at night,
[25:31]what truly you want to spend time with, what truly at the end of the day matters to you.
[25:37]And for me, it was all about exploring this one complicated relationship between a mother and daughter.
[25:43]And so I think that the purpose and the clarity was very obvious in the manuscript,
[25:49]and that helped itself in my opinion. So
[25:52]love it. That's great. Do you have any other advice? I know that you've already given a lot of
[25:56]great advice to aspiring authors, but any other parting tips.
[25:59]So, you know, I don't, you know, I'm not particularly wise, but I mean,
[26:04]you know, I'm still need to all of this. But I would say something that has helped me
[26:08]a lot is just I've surrounded myself with extraordinarily supportive people. They're through the years.
[26:14]I've, you know, had so many relationships that were like less functional and people who,
[26:19]you know, I mean, this is one of those industries where, you know, you need to be kind of
[26:23]surrounded by people who believe in you 100% because there's so much rejection. It's such an uphill
[26:28]battle, you know, and I think that really surrounding yourself with people who support you and
[26:34]believe in you no matter what is so important. And that doesn't mean, I mean, we can't, you know,
[26:39]choose everyone that's around us. But I mean, I guess for my strategy has always been I've been
[26:43]much more careful about sharing things with those people, you know, and really identifying
[26:49]who I can trust and who's going to support and like love me through even the hardest parts of
[26:54]this journey. And that has made a huge difference. I couldn't have survived all of this without,
[26:59]you know, my husband who was very supportive and friends who were just like, friends who
[27:04]hadn't even read my book, but who just always gave me the sense that they believed in whatever
[27:09]I was working on and that it was important. So that is just all around great life advice around
[27:14]yourself with the right people. No, it's true. I mean, that is like the secret to the whole
[27:19]thing is just saying like, is this person good for me or not? And figuring out a way to have the
[27:24]strength to say goodbye to the people who aren't. That is really, really hard. Yes, it's super hard.
[27:30]And it's something that I'm still learning to do, but I feel like gradually moving in that direction.
[27:34]I've definitely seen major improvements in me reaching the goals that I need to reach.
[27:40]Well, it's obviously working because you have a book coming out and your beautiful writer and
[27:44]your book is getting on the show. So whether you see it or not, it's like a tree falling in the forest.
[27:49]If my book is on the book starts out and nobody sees it, does it really, is it really there?
[27:54]But it is. So congratulations. Thank you so much. Thank you so much for having me. It's been such an
[27:59]honor to talk with you. Oh, it's been so fun. Awesome. All right. Well, thank you so much. It said
[28:04]me your address. I'm not sure if I have your email, but I guess we'll send it through just
[28:09]Steve. Perfect. Perfect. Thank you. Okay. All right. Bye.
[28:15]Thanks so much to firstbook.org for sponsoring this Labor Day book last. Please consider giving
[28:21]to firstbook.org to help their network of 475,000 educators serving children in need.
[28:27]Thanks for listening to this episode of Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books.
[28:31]Don't forget to follow me on Instagram at zibi Owens and at Moms Don't Have Time to Read
[28:35]Books. Also sign up for my newsletter at zibi Owens.com and sign up for my virtual book
[28:40]club and meet lots of authors on Zoom every other week. Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan at
[28:45]Texture Sound for the sound editing. And thank you to Morning Moon Productions for providing
[28:49]this fantastic intro and now trim music.