Cat Deeley, THE JOY IN YOU
[0:08]Hi, I'm Zibi Owens, and you're listening to the award-winning podcast Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books.
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[0:53]The sponsor for this whole Labor Day book last week is FirstBook.org. Obviously, the pandemic is
[0:59]crippling education for millions of students, especially those in low-income communities. The widening
[1:04]digital divide and extended quote unquote summer slide due to COVID is devastating. Apparently,
[1:11]40% lack access to reliable internet and functioning digital devices they can use for online learning,
[1:17]making the need for physical books and resources to prevent further educational
[1:21]backsliding absolutely critical. FirstBook breaks down the barriers to education for children
[1:26]living in low-income communities by providing its network of more than 475,000 educators serving
[1:33]children in need with free and affordable new high-quality books, educational resources, and
[1:39]basic needs items through the award-winning FirstBook marketplace nonprofit e-commerce site.
[1:44]They need your support to ensure these children have what they need to learn during this critical
[1:49]time. Visit FirstBook.org to help. I had such a nice time talking to Cat Deeley, who's the author
[1:55]of children's book The Joy in You. She herself is the proud mama of two boys. Since 2006, she has
[2:02]been the host of So You Think You Can Dance, which has earned her five prime time Emmy nominations.
[2:09]She's also UNICEF UK ambassador from 1998 to 2002. She hosted the children's program SMT The Live
[2:17]and it's been off-chart show CD UK. In 2001, she won a BAFTA Children's Award for hosting SMTV
[2:24]Live. She's an English television presenter, model actress, journalist, producer, dancer, singer,
[2:30]and media personality. And I had the best time chatting with her.
[2:33]Oh my god, hello! How are you doing? I'm good, thank you. Thanks for doing this podcast with me.
[2:45]Oh my god, you're more than welcome. Absolutely. Look at those all your books. Yes, these
[2:51]well, these are part of my books. They go all the way up and over and yeah. But you can't, wasn't.
[2:56]You've color coded them. Yes, I have. That's very, very, very organized. I'm slightly jealous
[3:06]of your organizational skills. I must say I didn't do it on myself. My husband had like it
[3:12]my husband and his business partner and his girlfriend, they were here for July 4th weekend.
[3:17]And I was in a process of reviewing the whole thing and they're like, let's all do it together.
[3:21]So everybody was here picking up books and, you know, it was a team. I hope he served margaritas
[3:27]or something like that or did something to get it done faster. We did. We had a proper celebration.
[3:32]Good, not to worry. Good. How are you doing? Good, thanks so much for coming on mom's turn. I'm
[3:39]time to read books. Your children's book is so precious. I love it. The joy in you. It is so
[3:46]adorable and just heartfelt and oh my gosh. Congratulations and the children's book. Yeah,
[3:52]it was always an ambition of mine to write a book. I love English literature at school and I had
[3:58]the most amazing teacher. And if I had have gone to university and life hadn't taken the turns
[4:04]that it did, I probably would have studied English literature at university. So it was always
[4:10]something that was in the back of my mind and I'd love to write more actually. And then I had
[4:16]my boys, Milo and James, Milo, who's four James, who is two. And like any other mom, by the time
[4:22]it reaches the end of the day, I am frazzled, worn out, tired, completely inarticulate. I can't
[4:32]really string a sentence together. And I know what I want to say, but I can't actually get it out.
[4:39]And so the idea behind the book was if I could say everything that I wanted to say to them,
[4:45]in the most eloquent way possible. So have all the thoughts and feelings and emotions and
[4:54]ideas and moments and then top and tailor it with love. That was essentially what I was trying to
[5:01]create and have a book that you could talk about and you could discuss and it would open up
[5:08]conversations between you and your child too. Because I think it's so important to engage with them
[5:14]and you know, any ideas that they have or thoughts that they have actually talked to them and
[5:19]be as honest as possible. Obviously within what's appropriate for their age and things like that.
[5:25]But how I find my own boys anyways is that they are very resilient. They are, they can cope with
[5:32]anything. As long as you tell them the truth and you're honest with them, the minute you aren't
[5:38]and all you hide things or it's the unknown that scares them, I think children. That suddenly
[5:46]becomes the bogey ram under the bed. So the more you can and they get and they get to vibe from
[5:51]you too when you were doing that. I think so the more we can be open and honest and engage in
[5:59]conversations about our kids, whether that's about emotions or life or situations or whatever they
[6:06]are. I think the more it gives them their chance to be able to be empathetic when they get older
[6:13]and also reach their full potential as an adult too. You know, that's what you want. I mean,
[6:18]essentially we all doesn't have to where you come from or what your background is. You want your
[6:24]children to be happy and kind. And the most simplistic, we all want the same thing, happy and kind.
[6:33]That's what we want. I mean, we want them to be able to empathize with other people because I think
[6:37]that will create a better world than what we're living in right now. And I think everybody wants
[6:43]the same. When I first started doing the book, it was actually just going to be about boys to begin
[6:48]with. And then I started playing with ideas and talking to Random House and they're like,
[6:54]this is silly. It doesn't matter who you are or what you gender is. These are like big
[7:02]ideas that everybody should kind of talk about really. I couldn't agree more. I have four kids of
[7:08]my own. They're a little older, five to 13. But yes, happy and kind. Yeah, four.
[7:15]Yeah. So I'm well versed in the children's book world. And I'm very reliant on them
[7:21]and great. Followed to great children's books like you at the end of the day. I'm a mess. So when
[7:26]I find a book that both I want to read and they say like, oh, read it again, read it again. And I
[7:30]don't mind. And that's like amazing. And we bought, I think it's so weird as parents with all
[7:38]got those books that touch us as well. That was the other thing as well. I wanted to write something
[7:44]I loved reading. You know, in all of those all of those great, you know, the giving tree and the
[7:52]wonderful things you will be. And you know, all of those type of books. How much do I love you?
[7:57]By the I'm a weeping nest by the end of the day. I pull it out and they're like, read this one. I'm
[8:04]like, oh, no, this is the one that makes me cry. And they're like, really? Let's try. And like, no,
[8:08]every time I read this book I cry. And then I cry. And they can't believe that a simple book
[8:14]can like elicit the same huge reaction every time, even though I know it's coming.
[8:19]I know. And you know exactly what's happening. But listen, I think that that is a really important
[8:26]thing for children to see too. You know, I was not a big choir. I was not hugely emotional,
[8:32]actually, before I had my babies. It's this weird thing where there is that, you know, how they say
[8:37]the day your baby's born, the mommy's born too. And there's a definite, almost palpable
[8:43]switch that happens to you, I think. And it's definitely, it's definitely changed me, you know,
[8:50]in, but in ways that I actually really like, it's definitely meant much more patient
[8:56]and actually much more loving towards other people as well. It's interesting how much
[9:03]changed you. Do you think it pervades your work life too? Like, every interaction or mostly
[9:08]in the person else here? No, I think every single interaction, actually, I always feel a bit like,
[9:15]no, when I'm even when I'm just out and about, you just never know what's happening in somebody
[9:19]else's life at that specific moment or time when you interact with them. And so I think it's
[9:27]very important that we, you know, we approach people with just a little bit of kindness.
[9:33]And I think, by the way, I think ourselves too, I think so often, as women with a, you know,
[9:39]with the carers, with the sorters, with the people who organize, we make things happen,
[9:44]we get things done, we slip up fights, we feed people, we cook for people, we met. And I think that
[9:51]we could do it in just a little bit kinder on ourselves too. That is definitely definitely true.
[9:57]Yeah. Yeah. I mean, sometimes I,
[10:00]juggle, I'm like, oh my goodness,
[10:01]what they done with my day today?
[10:03]And you think about it, and you're like,
[10:06]we should be running this country.
[10:08]And sometimes though at the end of the day,
[10:11]I'm like, oh, I didn't spend enough time with this kid
[10:14]or that kid, or like, what did I really get done
[10:15]on my list to do?
[10:16]And I didn't do enough of this, and I don't know.
[10:19]I feel like you can easily have those metrics
[10:21]not live up to your expectations.
[10:23]So it's a matter, I think, of picking the right ones.
[10:26]Agreed, agreed.
[10:28]And I think the kinder you are to yourself,
[10:30]actually the more you get done.
[10:32]And whatever your moment is for me, I love yoga.
[10:36]That's my thing where I move my body.
[10:40]I would probably have the body of a 76 year old.
[10:43]I'm very stiff.
[10:44]I'm not flexible at all.
[10:45]I've been doing yoga for 25 years and still,
[10:47]I'm just like a regular person.
[10:49]Because I'm not like I'm a donor or anything like that.
[10:53]But it makes me feel good.
[10:54]It makes my body feel good.
[10:56]It reminds me to breathe.
[10:57]And it just gives my head a bit of space.
[11:00]And whether yours is shopping, reading a book,
[11:03]watching a movie, praying, meditating,
[11:07]whatever you want to do, you find your thing.
[11:10]And even if you take 20 minutes,
[11:12]when you need to, take 20 minutes.
[11:14]And I think that's exactly what your book is teaching kids.
[11:17]Find your thing, whether it's dancing or wandering
[11:21]or anything they want.
[11:23]It's like, you can't do it wrong.
[11:25]Painting, yeah.
[11:27]Dreaming, yeah.
[11:28]The line I love the most in your book was right at the end
[11:31]when you said, if you ever lose your way
[11:33]or you don't believe you can, just look beside you.
[11:36]That's where I'll always be cheering you on
[11:38]and believing forever in the wonder that's you.
[11:42]That's so nice.
[11:43]I love that.
[11:45]Dad and Ethan, it's even better when James
[11:48]sits on my lap and he called himself Jamesy.
[11:51]And I said, who's that?
[11:52]And he said, Jamesy.
[11:53]And he said, who's that?
[11:54]And I'm like, mama.
[11:55]Oh, I'm telling you this.
[11:58]I mean, I just dissolve into an emotional puzzle of a mess.
[12:03]But I do think that this is my thing when I think about it,
[12:06]I think that small people are like little seeds
[12:11]that just need feeding and watering and light on them.
[12:15]And then their brains kind of explode
[12:17]almost like trees and branches going off them.
[12:20]And I feel like the more we can stimulate them
[12:23]and try all different things with them, the better they are.
[12:28]Because either they'll find something
[12:30]that they really do love or they won't.
[12:32]But that's a life skill that they'll learn to, you know,
[12:35]learning to cope with something A or not very good at
[12:38]will be, you don't really like that.
[12:40]It's perfectly okay as well.
[12:42]And I just always think like what if Stevie Wonder
[12:46]had never played the piano?
[12:48]Like what if Tiger Woods had never picked up a set of golf clubs?
[12:52]What if Picasso had never picked up?
[12:54]And there are millions of people out there
[12:57]that have not reached their full potential
[13:00]just because they haven't tried what they want to do.
[13:03]And sometimes I'm like, what if I was supposed to be
[13:06]the most amazing sculptor?
[13:08]But I still have not tried to do sculptor.
[13:10]No, what if?
[13:11]No, what I know, or knitting or something,
[13:16]like your tolling or whatever, it like,
[13:19]there are plenty of things.
[13:21]But just like what if you'd never tried it.
[13:23]And so I feel just the more we can throw out them.
[13:25]And I don't mean like exhausting them or anything like that.
[13:28]But try this, try this, it's something new.
[13:30]Let's try this.
[13:31]And it doesn't have to be, they don't have to be Stephen Hawking.
[13:36]So you know what I mean?
[13:36]Like it could just be, I remember being a kid.
[13:40]And a moment of joy that I remember
[13:43]was I was bodyboarding in the ocean.
[13:46]Not surfing, because I wasn't big enough.
[13:47]I was probably about eight, I guess.
[13:50]And I remember being in the ocean.
[13:51]And there's a little bit scary when you're eight, right?
[13:55]Because you can't quite tell what's coming where and how
[13:58]it's going to, but that almost adds to the excitement.
[14:00]I think like that's what made it so good.
[14:02]And either the wave that comes is going to kind of tip you up
[14:06]and throw you down to the bottom and roll you around.
[14:09]Or it's going to send you hurtling into shore.
[14:13]And you're going to squeal with the light.
[14:15]And I'm going to erase my brother back.
[14:17]And it's going to be amazing.
[14:19]And I remember staying in the ocean until my feet were blue.
[14:22]Like I love it so much.
[14:25]And I think there's even simple things like that.
[14:27]You know what I mean?
[14:28]Like I think, and I think that's one thing
[14:29]that we're all learning from being in the situation
[14:32]that we're in right now with the global pandemic.
[14:35]I think it's about finding the simple things
[14:39]that bring you so much joy.
[14:41]And it doesn't have to be, yeah,
[14:45]you can learn a new language,
[14:47]or you can learn a musical instrument,
[14:48]or you could, whatever you want.
[14:51]But it can be as simple as making the perfect cup of profit
[14:55]or going to the ocean.
[14:57]Or making the perfect victorious sponge cake,
[15:01]whatever it is, like there are so many lovely things
[15:05]that you can do.
[15:06]And it doesn't have to be brain surgery.
[15:08]It can be small and just, but really scrumptious at the same time.
[15:14]Totally agree with that.
[15:16]But how did you find,
[15:17]I mean, I think people who might not know you would argue
[15:20]that you did find your thing, right?
[15:22]You've been like a host of a major TV show.
[15:24]You've gotten all these primetime Emmy nominations
[15:26]and you're by any objective standards.
[15:28]You're like a success at work, right?
[15:30]You like have that.
[15:32]So how did you find that?
[15:34]Like how did you figure out?
[15:35]Like, oh, I would be such a good host
[15:37]for a reality to go like dance competition.
[15:39]Do you know what I mean?
[15:41]Yeah.
[15:42]Other people would be really good at that.
[15:43]How would they even know?
[15:45]Yeah, no, and I do get what you mean.
[15:48]And it was another that specific.
[15:50]So when I was little, you know, you have those books
[15:52]when you were little where you have to write
[15:55]what you want to be and how tall you are
[15:58]and what, and then you do different pages.
[16:01]So it said, what do you want to be when you grow up?
[16:03]And I said, I wanted to be Julie Andrews.
[16:07]That was what I wrote at eight.
[16:09]Unfortunately, Julie Andrews have to just go,
[16:12]means to work back.
[16:16]So that was kind of what I wanted to do.
[16:19]And then I was quite academic.
[16:21]It's quite enjoyed school.
[16:23]Like studying with us.
[16:26]But because I did have someone ask me a question.
[16:28]I'm like, well, you know, you're so lucky
[16:30]and you do what you do and you're so,
[16:33]but I grew up in a very small town
[16:37]from working class parents who, you know,
[16:40]entertainment wasn't the family business.
[16:43]There is no reason on earth why I should be doing,
[16:47]what I'm doing apart from the fact that I'm really like people.
[16:52]Like, and I don't care whether you'll be on say
[16:57]or narrow straight.
[16:58]Like, I just like people.
[17:01]And so I love chatting to people.
[17:03]It's my thing.
[17:05]I like knowing, I like working out how they tick.
[17:08]I like conversations.
[17:10]I like how it's formed their life
[17:13]and where they've gone and how their journeys happen.
[17:16]I mean, that's part of the reason why I love without shouting.
[17:19]I mean, some of the stories you hear,
[17:21]you would think, oh my goodness,
[17:22]that would be enough to crush the human spirit.
[17:27]And yet somehow these kids like not only survive
[17:33]and thrive and move on with their lives,
[17:36]but they also channel the negativity
[17:39]and spill it around and make it positive.
[17:43]And they put it all into doing this thing that they love
[17:48]that they have this amazing talent for,
[17:49]that they have to, don't give me one,
[17:51]they have to train and they work and they do all that.
[17:53]But so I think that you can find it.
[17:56]You don't necessarily have to be, you know, born into it,
[18:01]and it's what I said, I come from,
[18:03]there is no reason why I should be doing what I'm doing,
[18:06]but I am.
[18:07]And you know what, there will always be people who are
[18:10]doing better than me and driving Rolls-Royce's
[18:12]and that's fine too.
[18:15]You know what I mean?
[18:16]And what's a Rolls-Royce race anyway?
[18:19]I mean, exactly, unless you're gonna drive it
[18:20]into a swimming pool.
[18:22]Yeah, okay.
[18:22]That would be fun.
[18:24]A music video or something, but yeah.
[18:25]Yeah, that would be fun.
[18:28]Oh, that's amazing.
[18:30]Well, do you have any advice to aspiring authors,
[18:32]particularly people trying to write a children's book?
[18:34]Oh, my goodness.
[18:35]No, it would just, I don't have any.
[18:38]This is my very first one and I don't know.
[18:41]I would love to write more, actually.
[18:43]A bit, maybe a little bit older next time.
[18:46]I have an idea for another book that's based on
[18:49]like a little girl who's a tomboy.
[18:51]And then I also have a very dark one,
[18:53]which is to do with babies and baby monitors,
[18:55]which is a bit gone girl, but I'm not going there.
[19:00]Yeah, but very cool.
[19:01]I've that idea too, but I love, I mean,
[19:04]my next book that I've got to read is normal people.
[19:08]Have you read that?
[19:09]I haven't read it yet.
[19:10]I'm embarrassed to say that I have not read it,
[19:12]but I have watched the show.
[19:14]Oh, and so good.
[19:16]See, I don't wanna watch the show until I've read the book.
[19:19]So I'm gonna read the book first.
[19:21]The show is sitting there like waiting to go for me,
[19:24]but I wanna read the book.
[19:25]I'm always like book first, then show,
[19:28]because I wish you con, I know.
[19:30]I usually am too, but my husband wanted to watch the show.
[19:33]So I was like, I'd rather do something with him.
[19:35]Fine, let's blame him.
[19:36]I'm gonna blame him.
[19:37]Yes, but I know I've had the book for a very long time
[19:40]and I'm embarrassed that I'm like the only one
[19:42]of the world who hasn't read it.
[19:43]So I don't even, eh?
[19:44]What's his name?
[19:45]What's your name?
[19:46]His name?
[19:47]His name is Kyle.
[19:47]Right, blame Kyle.
[19:48]Yeah, but his name check him and blame him.
[19:50]Yes, I blame him for everything.
[19:52]Yeah.
[19:54]Well, did it take a long time for you to write the children's book
[19:56]or did you just sort of like panted out in one day
[19:58]or what was it, what was it like?
[20:00]No, there was lots of backwards and forwards,
[20:02]there's lots of backwards and forwards,
[20:03]and sometimes I also disappear down a whole
[20:07]and it's a little bit where I got an idea,
[20:09]but for instance, there's a line in the book,
[20:13]which is dream as big as big as the nightfall of stars.
[20:17]And I started to then research
[20:20]what the biggest thing in the universe is,
[20:23]and it's called like the bariola, blah, blah, blah, blah,
[20:26]and I just,
[20:28]disappeared that down this hole and random house said to me, you do know you could just say a
[20:34]night full of style and that would bring me back to where you started to begin with but you
[20:39]disappeared and to be a bit of the most enormous thing on the universe that I was like yeah
[20:47]you just need to get you know what it is it's that thing there's so much backwards and forwards
[20:51]because sometimes you need to be accountable to people as well and I think it always helps to get
[20:58]people's opinions too because you think that writing's a children's book is so easy but
[21:04]there's so many layers to it and what you're trying to say and how you want to say it and where
[21:11]we're going next it's quite tricky but it was a lovely lovely experience to a lovely experience
[21:19]and what's coming next in terms of and then I'll leave you alone I know I've taken a lot of
[21:22]your time but what's coming next in terms of like your regular life versus your book life
[21:28]like do you know with the whole pandemic or even on the show no I don't really so essentially what's
[21:34]happened is Milo has been off school since March that six months of homeschooling which as
[21:42]actually I'm lucky Milo is four so I don't have to teach him algebra and Latin like I've
[21:49]taught him to read in the time that we kind of hate which now why don't you I would never get
[21:55]the chance to do that normally ever so it's really special and then James's team and he's got
[22:00]all these cute little he's like gabbling but he's got all these weird like little techie delos with
[22:05]his language where he's like mom mom mom don't feel that don't feel that mom no decision
[22:12]don't feel that and he's like other which is like the cutest thing too and normally I would never
[22:18]get the chance to hang out as much and and they want at that age where they want to hang out
[22:24]with me it's not like I've got two teenagers at home where I'm thinking oh you know they've
[22:30]not seen their friends and so I've actually been really lucky so then Milo goes back to school
[22:38]in September we do all the press for the book we're doing like worldwide press as well and then
[22:47]when the pandemic hit I was shooting a new show the Disney so we shot about five of them so
[22:55]we've got to wait and see when we can go back into the studio and protocols and all that kind of
[23:01]stuff so basically it's just a big wait and see essentially so I think like everybody right
[23:08]pretty much have you been have you been okay oh that's like a whole nother podcast
[23:12]how old do you children five seven and I have two 13-year-olds so we both twins yes wow
[23:26]yes I'm a very full house it's a very cool house they are going back to school so at least I
[23:32]know that's happening for at least whatever a month or two until they cancel it again at least I'll
[23:36]take those mornings that they go back by the way I think they're going to do the same here too
[23:41]because it should I might fall your old doesn't understand social distancing you know and then
[23:46]they're going to go back and it's going to be flu season we're going to get running days
[23:50]we shot today actually because our pediatrician was like the getting COVID and the flu forget about
[23:57]it so anyway on our flu shots done you know but yeah I am not overly optimistic about
[24:03]the school you know it's for a little bit but anyway but like you I love talking to people and
[24:08]finding out if you make people taken so I'm glad to if they want to do that with you and get
[24:12]to know you better and all the rest so thank you so much for all of your time lovely talk to you
[24:17]thank you so much lovely to chat to you I'm so jealous of your books on your wall oh you know just
[24:25]invite some friends over you can you'll get it done you know thank you thanks
[24:33]chat I wish you all the best bye bye darling stay safe thanks you do bye bye bye
[24:39]thanks so much to firstbooks.org for sponsoring this Labor Day book blast please consider giving
[24:45]to firstbook.org to help their network of 475,000 educators serving children in need
[24:52]thanks for listening to this episode of moms don't have time to read books don't forget to
[24:56]follow me on instagram at zibi Owens and at moms don't have time to read books also sign
[25:01]up for my newsletter at zibiowans.com and sign up for my virtual book club and meet lots of authors
[25:06]on zoom every other week thanks so much to Steve and Ryan at texture sound for the sound editing
[25:11]and thank you to morning moon productions for providing this fantastic intro and now trim music