Heather Lanier, RAISING A RARE GIRL
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[1:51]I had such a nice time talking to Heather Lanier about raising a rare girl, her memoir.
[1:57]Heather is an essayist, memoirist, and poet. She's the author of two award-winning poetry
[2:02]chat books called Heart Shaped Bed in Hiroshima, and the story you tell yourself. She's the winner
[2:07]of the WIC poetry open-chat book competition. Her nonfiction has appeared in Salon, the Southern
[2:12]Review, the three penny review, fourth genre, brevity, vella, and elsewhere. She has received
[2:18]to know Ohio Arts Council Individual Excellence Award and a Vermont creation grant.
[2:22]A graduate of Ohio State University's MFA program, she's now an assistant professor.
[2:27]Welcome, Heather. Thanks for coming on, Mom. Don't have time to read books to talk about
[2:31]raising a rare girl, your amazing memoir. Thanks for having me. I'm so thrilled to be here.
[2:37]Oh, of course. For those who don't know, could you please give a quick little synopsis
[2:42]of what raising a rare girl is about and also what inspired you to write this memoir?
[2:48]Yeah, it's about, well, it's about raising my daughter for the first five years or so of her life.
[2:52]She was born very, very small and that sort of shocked everybody in the world in the room.
[2:57]It mean because I had like ventured to have this like absolutely super healthy baby and did
[3:03]all the right things and went like over for to do all the right things. And she was incredibly
[3:08]signed me. So at full term, she was four pounds, 12 ounces. And we eventually learned that she had
[3:13]this very rare chromosomal syndrome called wolf her form syndrome, where she has this little
[3:18]deletion on one of her chromosomes on the fourth chromosome. So the book is about the first
[3:24]a lot of it started the first year and the sort of disorientation of learning about that diagnosis
[3:29]in the midst of parenting. The lack of normality in my life has like parenting is really
[3:35]mapped by normal, like the map of normal, you know, like what the baby does and when the baby does
[3:41]and even when you can't find common ground at the play group about like politics or jobs,
[3:46]you can usually find common ground of like when some your baby put something in his or her mouth.
[3:52]And like just I just wasn't in that club at all. I wasn't in that club of difficult development
[3:57]and my daughter had a lot of other things to teach me. So the first year is a lot of like
[4:03]processing that feeling disoriented, feeling grief for the trajectory. I thought this child would have
[4:09]and then the several the that's about it takes up about you know half the book and then the
[4:14]other half the books devoted to life after and reorientation. Like what does it look like to
[4:19]advocate for her? What does it look like to encounter be a good medical advocate to encounter
[4:24]doctors who belittle her to give her language and communication when her mouth wasn't capable
[4:31]of it at the time. So that's the book. And I couldn't believe the reactions how greatly they
[4:38]among different doctors and like people who were so rude and so negative and without almost
[4:43]regard for how you were feeling at all. And then other doctors who were sort of minimizing and
[4:48]I don't know it's like I don't know how you go from one all these different spectrums of advice.
[4:53]It's a lot. Yeah. I encountered a lot of different doctors and you know I was the kind I had never
[4:59]had like a condition that required me to show up from regular appointments. I just went for like an
[5:03]annual checkup. So this was my this was like I saw more doctors with Fiona in her first several
[5:09]months than probably my whole life. And what I learned really quickly was like get a second opinion
[5:14]should you ever need one. You know like there just are so many different approaches and so much
[5:21]of someone's personality comes into play when they when they actually give you medical advice.
[5:24]So yeah I learned quite a bit about doctors and like reading the room really quickly you know
[5:29]the doctor that would come in and like being enthusiastic about her and like treat her like a kid
[5:35]they were good doctors you know they immediately they often gave us really good advice in the end
[5:39]too. And the doctor that was like troubled by her various ways that she was different you know
[5:45]usually we didn't we didn't want to return to them you know. Yeah. I get imagine. Yeah.
[5:50]You know you captured so well how expecting moms try to do everything right and the pressure
[5:57]that we feel I mean I have four kids of my own like each time I mean I had a twin pregnancy so
[6:01]that was like a whole other thing. But just the pressure that we have on ourselves that like
[6:05]if we eat this turkey instead of that turkey like what could happen to our child and just like
[6:10]the pressure in addition to the physical that moms are under to like have these perfect pregnancies
[6:16]and therefore expect these perfect outcomes. And I don't know I mean I feel like you share this
[6:21]sort of belief but it's like we cannot control anything. Like no matter how much you do all the
[6:27]right things for in any part of life it's all just kind of a hoax. Yes I think that there
[6:33]there's a lot of illusion of control that's like really put on contemporary motherhood and I
[6:38]Sarah Megadix book Ordinary Insanity it just came out in like April it's about postpartum anxiety
[6:44]depression but it's about so much more and she writes a lot about like the pressure that women feel
[6:50]to like produce perfect children or to like the pressure that we feel to ensure that our kids are
[6:56]developing normally and also the like combination of that is like a natural thing and how that sort
[7:02]of can it can be the perfect storm for anxiety so she writes a lot about anxiety and does all these
[7:07]interviews. I didn't have postpartum anxiety in any sort of clinical way but I think her argument
[7:12]Sarah Megadix argument is that baseline motherhood is anxiety and that we've sort of accepted
[7:18]that as normal and it's not it's not it shouldn't be like it shouldn't be okay that we're all
[7:23]feeling this sort of pressure to keep everybody perfect or suffering-free or pain-free yeah there's
[7:30]very little we can control. I did not even know postpartum anxiety was a thing until fairly recently
[7:35]and I was like huh that's so funny that's just life like that is not that was that a thing that's
[7:40]not even a medical term but anyway and you did such a good job too when you were in the hospital at
[7:45]the very beginning and they said that you were supposed to rest and you kind of even felt guilty
[7:49]for that despite just having had a child you're like I've done all these things and every you know
[7:54]but now that's my one mandate is like I've spit a child out of me and now I can relax
[7:59]and then of course you quickly realize that like you can't just rest now you also have to worry
[8:04]which is like something that people try to control and you're like no no this is now I have to
[8:09]take this on because what's going on so yeah well that was definitely communicated to me in the
[8:14]hospital and they literally wrote you know what's your agenda for today yeah rest and I was like oh
[8:19]yes and also really I've never rested which is you know I'm better at resting now than a mom or
[8:25]at least like trying to take an hour to be like you need to do nothing but it was clear that
[8:29]they didn't mean that at all they meant because they were so concerned about her size that they
[8:34]meant if you want to breastfeed like let's get you know we have to start getting you in lactation
[8:38]consultants we have to feed just to be fed you know around the clock and there was a lot of stress
[8:43]there was a lot of stress on me so it was interesting even in my postpartum fog to read the
[8:49]cultural cues there you know rest mom take care of yourself you know breastfeed your baby or she
[8:54]will like I don't know you know she doomed to live a non-breasted life so a lot of pressure
[9:01]and of course you raise the issue that over time different groups of people have had sort of
[9:06]different culturally accepted child standards in a way and that in the olden days they would
[9:12]send off you know babies with dance syndrome to a home or they would say like don't have this
[9:17]child or all these horrific things and like what is really the meaning of a child and I feel like
[9:21]you look into that from a sort of religious angle spiritual angle medical angle it's like well
[9:28]why who's to say a child has to be perfect according to these random set of standards they
[9:34]some people in society think is really important yeah yeah for sure yeah and I think
[9:40]it was important to think about like why we become parents in this book because I think that
[9:45]the pressure to make children who are super charged with health and wellness than resilience
[9:51]resilience it's good but that's sort of like non vulnerable human being first thoughts impossible
[9:57]to be non vulnerable and second
[10:00]I think it's not the main reason we become parents is to create this person that transcends us, or at least I don't think it's the reason we should be parents is to make a little super baby or super mini me, I guess you call it, someone who climbs up the ladder even further than we were, at least for my experience, it felt like the reason that we become parents is just to be absolutely leveled, like, no way.
[10:25]Even if you have the typical kid, you will fail miserably at something and the course of it, and it's like, wow, it just levels you.
[10:34]It's so humbling, and you always think you're going to be a sort of parent, and then you have the child you have, and they require a different kind of parent, a different kind of parenting, and they don't breastfeed or whatever it is.
[10:47]So yeah, I wanted to bring that sort of angle into the book, so I wanted the book not just be a story, but also to be some reflection and some essaying, as we would say, and luckily my editor was great and allowed me to do that.
[11:03]Because I know some readers will think, I just want story, but I wanted there to be both.
[11:07]Well, it didn't feel choppy in any way. I mean, it was all seamlessly integrated, so I don't know, whatever you did, he did it well.
[11:14]When you talked here about this moment where you were like, did I sign up for this, but look what I got, which I feel like, I feel like any parent in some way, shape or form has said at some point.
[11:26]Oh my god, you know, what do I have to do it? But anyway, you said, of course, I sign up for it. Every parent does. When we venture to become parents, we sign up for the fragility of life.
[11:35]We sign up for the precarious vulnerability of being human. We just don't always know it. Just so key.
[11:41]Anyway, I just had to read that quote because that was so nice.
[11:44]Speaking of this religious aspect to your book and sort of spirituality and everything, you talked a lot in the book about your relationship with your husband and how he was actually sort of ordained during a time when you couldn't even be there and the fire alarm and all that.
[11:57]And also had been a monk training to be a monk and how he can like take 10 minutes to make tea and you're like, what are you doing?
[12:04]And you said that you're, you would have titled a memoir about your relationship, a red wine and green tea, which is so funny.
[12:11]So tell me, just tell me a little more about what it's like having that kind of influence because I do think in any sort of stressful situation, whether it's something with your child or something in your life, like the personality instrument of who you choose as a partner is so key to how you get through it.
[12:25]So just tell me a little about that dynamic and how it's affected your parenting really.
[12:30]So I'm sort of, I want to like create an environment where people can improve a lot, you know, like I'm every day at the end of the day, I think about like what could I do better tomorrow and you know, my husband Justin is much more I think relaxed about that, particularly
[12:44]parenting. So that works out really well because we create this balance, I guess, you know, so when, you know, when it was really little, she was you know six months, the advice that we got constantly was she needs to do more tummy time or tummy time or tummy time because it strengthens a baby's core.
[13:02]And, you know, I was like, well, then we have to do tummy time all the time, you know, like how so eventually I asked the early intervention is like how much just give me just give me a goal, I need a goal here so that I can hit the goal and I can rest, which are not great at and the, you know, then she said, oh, there's really no amount of tummy time that's too much, which was the worst advice for me.
[13:24]Whereas my husband, he just didn't feel that same pressure. It doesn't mean that he didn't also integrate therapy, but he didn't have this sense of like needing to do it and then taking all the joy out of it.
[13:35]He would find ways to make it fun so he would have her on his chest and he would just enjoy her and she would look up at him.
[13:43]He'd play music in the background lots of reggae. So it wasn't ended up being great for Fiona to have that balance because she had this very like accepting sort of relaxed person and this person who was more worried, I guess.
[13:59]So, I mean, that worry is that I was the engine behind getting her language, you know, so it was me home with her and not be able to communicate with her as clearly as I wanted or as she wanted that made me think we need to find more people and Justin was busy working.
[14:14]So I think it's helpful to have two very different people and kids like, and that's what happened in this case.
[14:21]Yeah. I feel like I'm in your camp of personality types. I can never rest. I was on bed rest with my twins and I was like, no, I don't think so.
[14:29]I'm like, I'm going to do this. What do you mean like, relax? I don't know. I don't even like allow myself to watch TV unless it's like pouring rain or I don't know. I have all these rules.
[14:38]And yeah, like, you know, don't eat dark chocolate in the morning. Right. Yes. I tell the afternoon. Yeah. He'll just break those. What are you doing? Yeah. No. I'm like, if I start this chocolate thing too early, just the rest of the day, like what's going to happen?
[14:53]Forget it. It's like the wheels off the chain. Yeah. And also with the advice that OT therapist said about there's never enough time. It's like then you cannot accomplish it. Right.
[15:03]If there's no end goal, then you can never like cross it off the list. And that's the worst thing too when you're like trying to get this done.
[15:11]Well, and so that reminds me, you was really good at just saying this person's advice or their influence in our lives isn't helpful. Let's just cut that voice out.
[15:21]I mean, it doesn't mean like, let's just cut that out. But you'd be like, let's just sweep that away. And I would still hear that voice. You know, so at one point there was, I don't know if this made it into the book, but I had this therapy session where the therapist just pointed out a lot of things that Fiona wasn't doing well.
[15:37]And by therapy, I mean like physical therapy, gross fine motor therapy. And you know, the therapist laughed and I leaned against the door, like slid down the door and just sobbed. It felt just like it was impossible to do a good job in this job of motherhood, which is what I mean when I say like we're leveled. Right.
[15:55]In this case, I was trying to get Fiona to make some gross motor gains. And my husband said, he's like, I noticed that when these people come they came like every two weeks.
[16:05]And by these people, I mean, these particular interventionists, there are amazing early interventionists out there. But the ones that we, the one we had was really stressing me out. He would see said, I noticed that she takes away your intuition.
[16:18]Like, she's there. You start to doubt yourself. And you start to listen more to outside voices, but he's like, you know what to do.
[16:25]So it was really helpful to have him say to just get rid of the voices. Like if they're getting if this person is causing you, he's like causing you to second guess yourself constantly, which is one of your most important tools as a mother is like this sort of knowing this like deep inner knowing.
[16:42]He's like, it's not worth it. So he was like, we should just cut him out. Like that particular person he thought we could not have them over.
[16:49]And I still was like, no, we have to do what we can, but it really did make me think the most important thing is that for at least in parenting and particularly parenting when you don't know when there's like no real clear map or other parents aren't doing what you're doing because their kids are very different than yours.
[17:05]That inner knowing is key and anything that interrupts that like it's okay to get rid of that.
[17:10]That's good advice.
[17:11]I'm going to take your husband's advice.
[17:14]I have had many a door slide, you know, in tears myself. So I feel like many parents have had that downward moment anyway.
[17:24]This was I think one of my favorite parts, this one particular moment because it really speaks to sort of how none of us really know what's going on and why in the world.
[17:35]And so all we can do is sort of go with what we have as information. Your mother, was it your mother, your mother, your mother, your mother, your mother.
[17:41]You said one morning during her devotional time with her Bible opened on the kitchen table.
[17:45]The prayer she offered was a tear field and desperate why as in why did you give this child wolf her sworn syndrome.
[17:52]The reply she heard was so striking and clear, so separate from herself that it stopped her straight.
[17:57]The voice said you have no idea what I intend to do with this child.
[18:01]And after that my mother trusted the body and my daughter had been given.
[18:05]I love that. I read it out loud to my husband. I was like this is it. This is the answer.
[18:09]You don't know. You don't know why. Maybe there's a bigger purpose to everything.
[18:15]Maybe for every struggle and now I'm sounding like ridiculous and like oh woo woo.
[18:19]But I feel like with every struggle and with every challenge like maybe there's a reason why or maybe there's not maybe some is just bad luck.
[18:26]But I don't know. I just love that part.
[18:28]Yeah, but just you know the why question is apparently one that Americans ask a lot like a there were some famous and master who came to America to teach Zen and he was like wow these Americans ask why a lot.
[18:42]It is a question we like to ask and I think there's like great freedom and just saying we don't know but perhaps there is bigger reasons that we could never ever fathom.
[18:52]I was just talking to my kids about this when we're reading a book about space.
[18:56]So I'm reading the kids book about space facts and everyone's in a while I'd be like listen to this there's a hundred billion stars in our galaxy.
[19:06]And there's you know billions of galaxies like I can't even fathom that like the human mind just can't fathom a whole lot beyond you know our worlds.
[19:16]Yeah, I actually just writing purposes I had my mom read that section and I asked her if she was okay with it and like she actually tweaked what God what the voice that she'd heard.
[19:28]She's like no it wasn't quite that it was this.
[19:30]So in just in terms of the writing process it was important for me not to like share other people's deep personal divine moments without actually getting their permission.
[19:40]Yeah tell me more about the writing because you actually like teach writing and so you even had little tidbits in here about like highlighting details and just like little bits of advice sprinkled through for writing itself but tell me about how your whole approach to this book and how you just tackled the project and what it was like to write it.
[19:56]Okay well I was actually working on.
[20:00]book about my husband and I and our falling in love
[20:03]and the fact that he had been among
[20:05]and that I was like a like recovering Christian
[20:08]or recovering from baptism or baptism to faith.
[20:11]I guess so I was working on this book
[20:13]and also had Fiona and she was about a year old
[20:17]when I really wanted to write about what I was experiencing
[20:21]encounters we had with doctors,
[20:24]what I was learning about myself,
[20:25]what it was just like to parent someone totally different
[20:28]from the I guess the baby book you know said
[20:31]all that you know any sort of developmental book explained.
[20:34]So I started writing a blog on the side
[20:36]and I it was almost like I was cheating on the main manuscript
[20:40]you know while like you can out these blog posts
[20:43]I wrote blog posts like at three in the morning
[20:45]while pumping milk you know I wrote it a lot
[20:48]when she Fiona was napping
[20:50]all the while I was working on this other book
[20:51]and then I started writing sometimes longer essays
[20:54]about parenting a child with disabilities
[20:56]and maybe like five or 10 of those
[20:59]and eventually like it was a anything got to like 90 some blog posts
[21:03]and 10 literary essays
[21:05]and I knew that eventually I would write a book about Fiona
[21:09]but I really just wanted to reach readers easily
[21:12]rather than like go through the slow root of literary publishing.
[21:16]So after an essay called Super Babies Don't Cry
[21:19]an editor and an agent contacted me around the same,
[21:22]like it was the same weekend
[21:24]and those ended up being my agent
[21:26]and then my editor for the book.
[21:28]So that book just sort of fell into place
[21:29]and my agent said I said well I don't love writing book proposals
[21:33]I like writing the book
[21:34]and in the proposal I work can kind of kill the book idea
[21:37]because you're sort of planning the thing
[21:40]that I don't really want to be planned
[21:41]like I like to find myself in the writing
[21:44]or discover things in the writing.
[21:46]So she said well I'll help you and she did
[21:48]and I wrote it really quickly to try to kind of get it over
[21:51]with the wrote the proposal.
[21:52]I wrote it from July to August
[21:54]and then she submitted it to that one editor
[21:58]that Penguin Press in September and we had a contract.
[22:01]So that's how it unfolded
[22:03]and then this other book that I was cheating on on
[22:07]now that's kind of I haven't touched,
[22:08]I haven't looked at it in a while.
[22:09]I need to open that back up and figure out
[22:11]likely it will be different now
[22:13]and then it's like five years past.
[22:15]So.
[22:15]Wow.
[22:16]So when you did the proposal that you hadn't written it, right?
[22:18]You had just written the blog post
[22:20]and all the supporting materials.
[22:21]Yeah, that really only got you to the actual book deal.
[22:24]So then what happened was I thought,
[22:25]well I've got so much writing done.
[22:27]Surely this won't be that complicated
[22:30]because there's just all of this material
[22:33]and I spent that time during the proposal reading
[22:36]that summer that I wrote the proposal I spent reading
[22:38]through the blog posts and the essays that I'd written
[22:41]and sometimes I had just been writing also in a word document
[22:45]that was accumulating pages of experiences that I had.
[22:49]And I realized that I was cleaning out my garage
[22:52]at the same time or my basement and it felt the same.
[22:56]Like go through the basement and all the discordant stuff
[23:00]in boxes felt the same as sorting through
[23:03]all of these different pieces of writing.
[23:05]And it was because there was no sort of narrative consistency
[23:09]in the voice because like the person who was a mother
[23:14]to a one year old who'd just been diagnosed
[23:17]with Wolf her short syndrome seven months before.
[23:20]Yeah, over long ago before.
[23:22]That person was very different from the person
[23:25]who had a six year old whose kid was in kindergarten
[23:28]who was like I'd fully accepted and embraced my daughter
[23:33]and learned so much.
[23:34]So yeah, there was no shape.
[23:38]I had to figure out chronology and what was important
[23:40]and what was the voice going to be.
[23:43]And so that all took time.
[23:45]And then there were moments that I had written
[23:47]about in the blog that ended up in the book
[23:49]under very different.
[23:50]They all got recast in this different voice
[23:53]with different emphasis and everything sort of got expanded
[23:57]too because I got the large space of a book
[24:00]rather than a little post.
[24:02]Wow.
[24:02]So how long did you think the writing took?
[24:05]The writing I gave me 15 months for the first draft
[24:08]and I made my deadline.
[24:10]Congratulations.
[24:12]And then there was nine months of revision rounds.
[24:15]So I think we, me, my editor and her assistant,
[24:18]and I did three rounds of revisions.
[24:21]So two years after the contract was signed,
[24:23]the book was accepted as done.
[24:26]And then we did fact check legal review stuff like that,
[24:30]like fine tuning copy editing.
[24:31]So they spent from September to July this past July
[24:35]kind of getting it already and figure out a book cover
[24:38]and things like that.
[24:39]And now I feel like the uncertainty that you write about
[24:42]in the book and things not going according to plan,
[24:44]of course, I'm sure I'm like the 8,000th person
[24:46]to ask you this question.
[24:46]Of course, this is now what every parent is
[24:49]and every person is dealing with with the pandemic
[24:51]and how life is just not on track in any way for any one.
[24:55]And what do we do with that information?
[24:56]But now I feel like you're so uniquely positioned
[24:58]to handle that challenge.
[25:00]Yeah. Well, yeah, I think there is a sort of surrendering
[25:04]to uncertainty that I practiced in Fiona's first year.
[25:07]And early in the early months of the pandemic,
[25:10]I kind of feel like it's things have shifted so much
[25:12]in some ways and shifted not at all in others.
[25:14]But I did get the same feeling that I had when Fiona
[25:19]was like six months or whatever.
[25:20]I would get this like quiet sort of feeling kind of in my
[25:26]heart or in my chest that was like, there's nothing that
[25:29]you can do.
[25:30]And the all you can do is just sort of fall into this
[25:34]and pray or hope or trust that something will be caught here
[25:39]that you will be caught that you'll be OK, I guess.
[25:44]And OK doesn't mean everything will work out great.
[25:46]I'll keep, you know, you'll keep the job.
[25:48]Your kid will walk like it meant it will be a different kind
[25:51]of OK perhaps and you would perhaps like but still OK.
[25:56]So I got that feeling again, you know, in the first week
[25:59]or first month or two of the pandemic and it was comforting
[26:03]because I thought, oh, I have been here before.
[26:04]I've been in a place where I don't know if my kid is going to
[26:07]walk.
[26:07]I don't know if she's going to talk.
[26:08]I don't know if she's going to live till she, you know,
[26:10]passed to what does that mean and how can I go forward?
[26:14]And what at the time what it meant was you love the hell out
[26:18]of life, you know, you take it all in as much as you can and
[26:22]love your daughters best you can.
[26:24]It doesn't mean I need plenty.
[26:25]I don't, it doesn't mean I don't need the introverted time
[26:28]alone, you know, to journal or would have you.
[26:31]But yeah, I think it's still a good lesson.
[26:32]When things are really uncertain, it brings us closer to
[26:34]the sense of what things really mean and what really matters.
[26:37]And it's not fun or comfortable.
[26:38]And I wouldn't wish it on anybody.
[26:40]But I think it does click things into focus in a helpful way.
[26:45]I feel like you had a whole passage about this at the end.
[26:48]I circled it and I was like, ah, meaning of life.
[26:51]You were like, the point of this human life, I believe, is love.
[26:54]And the ridiculous and brave and risky act of love turns my heart
[26:57]into taffy, stretches it across the broad spectrum of human
[27:00]feeling.
[27:01]My daughter has given me a thousand portraits of grief and a
[27:03]thousand portraits of joy.
[27:05]I hurt, I long, I exalt, I rejoice.
[27:08]Loving my daughter tenderizes me, makes me more human.
[27:11]And yes, my chest sometimes aches from this work.
[27:13]But the ache in my chest is a cousin of joy.
[27:16]So amazing.
[27:17]Thank you.
[27:18]Oh my gosh, you're writing.
[27:20]I love your writing.
[27:21]It's like, it says if we're talking, but it's more literary
[27:25]than that.
[27:25]And it's like, you just want to like sit down and be your
[27:29]friend.
[27:29]I don't know.
[27:30]It's so evocative.
[27:32]And I don't know, I'm not being very articulate myself
[27:34]in describing your writing.
[27:35]I can't even speak.
[27:36]But, you know, and then you had these little funny lines,
[27:39]like vacationing while parenting is kind of like juggling
[27:42]while sleeping.
[27:43]I mean, that's like perfect.
[27:44]That should be on a pillow that like every parent should be
[27:46]given in the hospital.
[27:47]It's like, or at every airline should have that, you know,
[27:51]like let's just like make these difficult situations
[27:54]humorous, because like what else can we do?
[27:56]Yeah, they could just give that instead of those baggies of
[28:00]like formula, hug, you know, food, right?
[28:02]Who needs those?
[28:03]I mean, I mean, come on.
[28:04]I forget the bibs.
[28:05]Forget the bibs.
[28:06]We'll get bibs.
[28:08]Do you have any advice for aspiring authors?
[28:10]Yeah.
[28:11]Let me see.
[28:12]I was just talking to a friend of mine who wants to tell her
[28:14]life story.
[28:15]And she writes poems.
[28:17]And they're, you know, she loves writing poems.
[28:19]Because she can get sort of lost in them.
[28:20]And they surprise her.
[28:22]And then she comes out on the other side.
[28:23]And she didn't predict that she would go there.
[28:26]And she loves that about poetry.
[28:27]But she's really overwhelmed to write her life story.
[28:30]And I thought, I gave her this advice, maybe it's useful.
[28:33]Sometimes we need constraints to feel free.
[28:37]So for her, you know, I was thinking, you have this like 20
[28:40]years she wants to tell in this memoir.
[28:43]What if she gave herself the constraint of she's going to
[28:46]write as many sections as it takes.
[28:48]But they're only going to be 300 words.
[28:50]So it sort of feels like a poem.
[28:52]So write 300 words.
[28:54]Write your way into it.
[28:55]Maybe it's a scene.
[28:56]Maybe it's a reflection.
[28:58]Be surprised by it.
[28:59]And but it has to be over 300 words.
[29:02]That's not necessarily a constraint that works for everybody.
[29:04]But I do believe as a writer in the enabling constraints.
[29:09]So as a poet, if I start getting sloppy or uninspired,
[29:13]I'll go back to meter.
[29:14]Like I go back to I am a pentameter or whatever form,
[29:18]I'll try to write a huddle or some kind of obscure form.
[29:22]Because something, it's helpful for me.
[29:25]And I think a lot of writers to feel constrained in one way.
[29:27]And then it feels liberating in another.
[29:30]So I like that.
[29:31]I like to play with that as a writer.
[29:33]That's great.
[29:33]You could do it with time frames too.
[29:35]Like you can only write about one year of your life
[29:37]or you could make it half an over one day or things like that.
[29:40]Yeah.
[29:41]Yes.
[29:42]I have a friend Sonia Hubert.
[29:43]My friend am I just wrote a book or has a book coming out.
[29:46]It's apparently a nonfiction book about one day.
[29:49]But inside that day is like all of this other stuff
[29:52]woven into it.
[29:53]So constraints can be helpful.
[29:56]External forms can be helpful that you borrow.
[29:59]That's one advice.
[30:00]a bit of advice. Yeah. Awesome. Well, thank you Heather. Thanks for your amazing book.
[30:05]Thanks for sharing your story. You know, I know your mom said a voice holder that it's,
[30:10]you know, who knows what this child is intended to do, but at the least it changed my
[30:15]time reading this book and my time meeting you and getting to know you and your story and
[30:20]feeling less alone in my slide down my door into the tear land. So, you know, it has
[30:24]it's probably going in a slide because now I'm envisioning like a playground slide, you know,
[30:30]like a team's fun now. We just slide down our doors. We're not sliding together. It's a wild ride
[30:36]down the slide. It's not just a descent into depression. And it's not alone either, particularly now.
[30:43]Everyone's doing it. Everyone's doing it. If you got to do it to be cool. Anyway, well anyway,
[30:48]thank you. Thanks for going on. Yeah. Thanks for having me. Okay. My pleasure. Bye. Bye. Bye.
[30:55]Thanks so much to firstbook.org for sponsoring this Labor Day book blast. Please consider giving
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[31:08]Thanks for listening to this episode of Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books. Don't forget to
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[31:22]every other week. Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan at Texture Sound for the Sound Editing.
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