Alyssa Shelasky, APRON ANXIETY
[0:08]Hi, I'm Zibi Owens, and you're listening to the award-winning podcast Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books.
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[0:53]The sponsor for this whole Labor Day book last week is firstbook.org.
[0:58]Obviously, the pandemic is crippling education for millions of students, especially those in low-income communities.
[1:04]The widening digital divide and extended quote unquote summer slide due to COVID is devastating.
[1:10]Apparently, 40% lack access to reliable internet and functioning digital devices
[1:15]they can use for online learning, making the need for physical books and resources to prevent
[1:20]further educational backsliding absolutely critical. First book breaks down the barriers
[1:25]for children living in low-income communities. By providing its network of more than 475,000 educators,
[1:32]serving children in need with free and affordable new high-quality books, educational resources,
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[1:44]They need your support to ensure these children have what they need to learn during this critical
[1:49]time. Visit firstbook.org to help. Alyssa Schalaski is the writer and editor of New York
[1:54]magazine's popular sex diaries column, which has been often by HBO to be a docuseries.
[2:00]She also writes New York magazines both sides of the breakup column and many other relationship
[2:05]motherhood and lifestyle pieces for them. She writes for the New York Times and recently
[2:09]had one of their most read essays ever called is sex dead for parents. She's written for
[2:15]everyone from Bon Appetit to Cotton S. Traveler to Town and Country and People. Her memoir,
[2:20]Apron Anxiety, My Messy Affairs in and out of the kitchen, was optioned by Sony Television.
[2:25]And since then, she's developed several TV shows with producers like Jim Parsons from The Big
[2:30]Bang Theory and Cheery Applebee from Unreal. Last week, in a pre-empt she signed a deal with
[2:35]St. Martin's Press to write, This Might Be Too Personal. essays on love and pain as tied to her
[2:40]wild-hearted life as a love, sex and celebrity writer. Welcome, Alyssa, thank you so much for
[2:45]coming on mom's don't have time to read books. Thank you so much for having me. I have so much
[2:51]to talk to you about and I didn't even know what to start first. First of all, your book,
[2:56]Apron Anxiety, My Messy Affairs in and out of the kitchen was so good and I know you wrote this a
[3:01]while ago when you have lots of exciting stuff coming up and everything but I have to say I just
[3:06]loved it. It was so good. So I just had to start with that. You know, like that means a lot to me
[3:12]and the people who did read that book had a similar reaction and I would get emails from people
[3:17]saying I'm like in the grocery store thinking about this scene and it brought me to my knees and
[3:22]like people had a really emotional reaction to the pages and that makes me really happy. It also
[3:30]makes me kind of emotional to talk about the book. It's strange because it was a while ago, it was
[3:35]eight years ago that I wrote it and published it but it really stopped with me and I saw of dreams
[3:41]and also you've been sort of like nightmares about some of the stories in the book and it was
[3:45]really to find a huge part of my life. I mean you talked every in the book about everything. It was
[3:51]like a coming of age but also your learning how to cook was just like a metaphor. I feel like
[3:56]there's so many other things and you know I also like had to teach myself how to cook when I was
[4:02]about the same age and I feel like there were so similar to 70 similarities in our lives and like
[4:07]going to LA. I also like went to LA for parts of the time. I also lost a dear friend on 9-11 like
[4:12]I had there were just like all these things and both of our growing up that I was like oh my gosh
[4:16]this girl should be my friend so anyway. Thank you so much. It's strange because
[4:23]that I get that a lot. I've been like in the articles I write for New York Magazine or the New York
[4:28]Times. I often get I often hear from people that like you are me or you know me or you hear me or
[4:33]whatever and I get it from people who are so different from me so different from you and to me that
[4:39]just speaks to the universal truths that we all want to love and be loved and everybody hurts and
[4:46]especially right now everybody is struggling. So yeah thank you. I can't believe that I have like one
[4:52]more reader reader. I didn't do a really good job marketing that book. I just didn't get it. I was
[4:57]so happy that I wrote a book and I was so happy to be done with the book and I wanted to move to
[5:02]Italy and write my own e-pray love the minute it was over and I didn't really work on the marketing
[5:08]or the sales of it all. Now I know the business you know I know it goes into actually selling a book
[5:13]so not that many people read it so I do feel like this real closeness to people who now know
[5:18]all my secrets and you know who were on that journey with me. I mean no time like the present.
[5:25]Let's like get this in people's hands. It's you know also it's so timeless. It doesn't matter
[5:29]that it came out eight years ago versus today. I mean aside from the global pandemic there's nothing
[5:34]that you can't relate to now. There's nothing that you know a 23-year-old going through the same things
[5:39]today or you know not that you have to be 23. It's just like it could have been at any time really.
[5:44]So at that time what made you so you had a very successful blog at the time apron anxiety. What
[5:49]how did this become a book from the from the blog? So it feels like many lifetimes ago I was
[5:55]engaged to a celebrity chef. I don't know if he's quite a celebrity anymore but at the time he was
[6:01]kind of like you know the it chef he was on top chef and it was supposed to be a very different
[6:06]book. We were really happy. We were you know young dominant loves and I got a book deal with
[6:12]Clarkson Potter. It was a food memoir with recipes but it was supposed to have a happy ending and I
[6:18]know spoiler alerts but like most relationships with sexy hot young chefs it did not go as planned
[6:27]and in the middle of well right when I started writing it after I got my book deal we broke up
[6:32]again that doesn't ruin like you could Google me I have two kids with a total you know I
[6:37]would totally different life now so you know it didn't I didn't end up with that. After we broke up
[6:42]I remember I mean my my world fell apart and on top of everything I assumed I had lost my book
[6:47]deal which was really the greatest love of my life. The thing that mattered more than any of it
[6:52]was as a writer to have a book and I assumed I lost that on top of everything else. So I called
[6:58]my editor at Clarkson Potter and I said you know it's over and I'm not a chef's going to be a
[7:04]chef's wife anymore. I'm moving back to New York alone and I doubt I'll be cooking for anybody ever
[7:11]and she said are you crazy like right through the pain first of all as someone who cares about
[7:15]you right through that pain and and it will save you and second of all what a better story like
[7:21]who needs another like happy ending what a better story that you went through this you lived it you
[7:27]survived you lived to tell about it and at some point you won't be able to laugh and celebrate
[7:34]the mistakes you made and she was right and that was what turned out to be the book but it was
[7:38]a totally different type of book in the end it was much more of a memoir than a cookbook and it made
[7:43]the I think part of the reason that I sort of minute the book came out I sort of just like left for
[7:48]Italy is that it was a really intimate story to tell and very very hard to retell over and over
[7:55]because I was very much heartbroken and 34 and starting to really become scared about my future
[8:03]and wondering if I you know if I had really fucked things up for the long term and the last
[8:09]thing I wanted to do was keep retelling the story of immense pain and regret and so I did some
[8:16]press and I did what I could because I was very proud of the book but I mostly wanted to
[8:21]literally turn the page and so that's why I moved to Italy and started a whole new trajectory of
[8:29]messed up for all ages and difficult man and you know just romantic disasters that I couldn't
[8:38]seem to escape I love you there's gonna be a second book yes wait can I just ask as a PS are you
[8:44]still in touch with the chef like do you have a relationship with him now not really at all but
[8:48]this is not just some like cheap line I only have beautiful warm loving feelings for him number one
[8:56]he let me write that book with no drama I mean I remember the editor and the lawyer saying
[9:01]we have to send this book to him to prove every single page and and and I wanted that too I want
[9:06]to make yours comfortable with it and within like half a day you wrote back you write whatever you
[9:11]want I suppose he was so kind and generous and I loved him for a long time and then I you know I
[9:18]stopped loving him and and we moved on and so I and I think he had a child right around when I
[9:24]my first child which at the time the thought of that like you're ex having a baby with somebody
[9:29]else who they're madly in love with sounds like how would you ever deal with that but at the time
[9:34]I was nothing but joyful for him and and psyched for the two of us like we we did it we found our
[9:41]happy places we found our people we found our babies though it's all good but no I don't really
[9:46]know anything about him I'm not one of those people that Google's her exes I think that is so like
[9:52]toxic and I don't want to know like he kind of has a public name so every now and then people
[9:57]would be like oh I heard he you know it was okay
[10:00]putting in my, it's like, I don't want to know. I just, I don't, it's like nothing good comes from that. I
[10:04]don't. Why? So I can miss him a little bit. So I can like cry a little tear. I don't want it.
[10:11]So I don't know what he's up to and we're not in touch, but I love him and I hope I'll put things.
[10:16]Oh, yeah. I did find myself sometimes rooting for you guys to make it work knowing that like it was almost
[10:22]impossible. But and I knew it didn't because I know I've read your more recent stuff. But anyway,
[10:27]you know, like you can suspend disbelief when you're reading. I'm like, maybe, maybe, I don't know who
[10:32]does. And yeah, I know. And now just tell yourself what you need to at the end of books to just like,
[10:38]so that you can sleep at night. Like, I've been having with normal people where I was like,
[10:42]oh, they, they took a year to, I, I assume you read it or at least I just, I said I took a year or two off
[10:47]where they totally found each other in the end of the course. To tell myself that just to be able to
[10:54]put the book away. And so then, so you went to Italy and then you ended up having your single mom
[10:59]for a while. And then you fell in love. And now you have another child and you would say when you
[11:04]call your baby daddy and your partner and whatever else. Got I need to rant. I really need to rebrand
[11:11]the term for whatever we are. I know a lot of non-married couples also don't know how to deal with
[11:17]this. But yeah, I'll, I'll rewind. So I went to Italy. I fell in love with literally the first
[11:22]man I spoke, the first human being I spoke to. And we were inseparable for the next year. And I
[11:29]was like, okay, well, this is how my story ends. This is interesting. Like, I have a Brooklyn slash Roman
[11:34]life. And we go back and forth. And I became a travel writer for honey and ass travel. I have the
[11:39]Rome correspondent. And it was the optics of it were very, very glamorous. But he was very dark.
[11:47]You know, I clearly have a type. He was a little bit dark and brooding super sexy. And after a
[11:53]year together, told me that he wanted to ride off on his motorcycle through India smoking hash in
[11:59]your alone. I know. Oh, that's exactly it was an identity coming. So I moved back to New York
[12:10]the next day. And by then, I was romantically dead. I was just dead. I don't know. Like, it was
[12:16]like how many heartbreaks can one person go through before they are officially broken.
[12:22]And I was a little bit broken. And my inner spirit was was not herself. And I didn't know what to do.
[12:30]So I let myself be sad for a few months. But it's really not my style. Like, I really, I can't stay
[12:36]sad for long. So I rose above. And I asked myself, I remember one night I looked in the mirror in
[12:43]my little gymnast park apartment in Brooklyn. And I was crying. And I said, what do you want,
[12:47]Alyssa? Like, what, what is it? What will make you happy? You are capable of anything. You can
[12:52]handle anything. What do you want? And the answer was motherhood. And so I was like, okay, I'm doing this.
[13:01]I'm going to be a mom. And that thread had, I've always wanted to be a mom. So that it wasn't like
[13:07]a half. It was like, it is time. By then I was 37. And I knew, and not all women know this,
[13:14]it's not. This is not, I can only speak for myself. I knew I wasn't going to have a happy life
[13:21]if I didn't have kids. That was just my truth. So I only knew one other person who was having a
[13:26]baby on her own. And that's a mutual friend, Amanda. And she was a little ahead of me. Like,
[13:32]she already knew, and I've coded her in stories. And she knows that she's the sort of the hero of
[13:37]this story. I did exactly what she told me to do. You know, like, she knows her shit. She knew the
[13:44]best doctor. She knew the best firm bank. And she's, she's so cool. And I really relied on her
[13:50]to get me through this. And I'm telling you, Zibi, from the minute I made that decision,
[13:55]I'm going to have a baby on my own. I never, I've never felt scared. I was never nervous. It felt
[14:01]so right and so natural and so obvious. Like, what took me so long? And it worked. I not pregnant
[14:08]quite easily. I chose a sperm-dope donor who I knew the minute I saw his profile like that he was
[14:14]the one. And I had my daughter, Hazel. And while I was pregnant, I dated a little bit because
[14:21]why not? I felt sexy. My boobs were amazing. I felt more alive than I ever had. I stopped dating
[14:31]obviously when it became uncomfortable to button my, you know, little wrap dresses and stuff.
[14:38]And I had, you know, I had a little bit of like a romance while I was pregnant, which was nice
[14:43]because I had like a person to call after my appointments. And it was a very, it was a, it was a magical
[14:50]time. It was a magical time. And then I had my daughter and I should say I wasn't totally alone.
[14:56]I haven't incredibly supportive family. And we all live nearby. And my dad was, I had an emergency
[15:01]C-section and my dad was there with me. And he was the first person to hold my daughter.
[15:06]It was a beautiful love fest. I never felt bad for myself. I never worried about how I would pull it
[15:13]off. I don't have a lot of money. I don't come from a lot of money. I never, a lot of people
[15:18]were concerned like how would I support a child. I knew it would work out. And it did. It did. So
[15:25]a few months after I had hazel, I was bored. I was nursing around the clock. I watched every show.
[15:32]I dinged every house. I had nothing left to do that three o'clock in the morning. So I joined
[15:36]Tinder. And I put in my profile single mom with a very uncomplicated situation. In other words,
[15:43]you know, no crazy acts. Because it was weird to have like a five month old, you know,
[15:48]like I had to sort of explain. But I didn't say too much. I just said, it's all good. I got a good
[15:53]situation here. I'm single. I kind of just want somebody to have a glass of wine with. You know,
[15:56]I was not looking for a husband. I was not looking for a father for my daughter. I just wanted a
[16:02]little bit of flirtation. And I think the first part, one of the first people I met was this guy
[16:08]Sam. And he said he was from Maine. And he was a documentary filmmaker. And just like all the things
[16:14]that always lured me in, you know, like this XC artsy thing. But I could tell within a minute of
[16:20]talking to him. He was more than that. And he was a family man. He came from a big family. He was
[16:26]grounded. He was stable and steady. Also sort of missing pieces from before. And we had a first date
[16:34]on my mom watched my daughter and we had Bloody Mary's Vinegar Hill House. And Hazel came with us
[16:40]on every single date from that point on. And we became a family really quickly. And it is. It's
[16:46]it's a fairytale. It really is a fairytale. He's wonderful. She said daddy before she said mommy.
[16:51]We just had another baby together. I'm 42. I just had a second baby. And it wasn't that hard.
[16:57]So it's a lot of it's a lot of miraculous, hopeful things. But you know, I do often year,
[17:05]it all worked out. You know, and part of me is like, I mean, it did, but also we would have been
[17:10]okay. I don't I don't really love the message like that. We needed a man for it to all work out.
[17:15]It worked out the minute I had a healthy baby. So it's a beautiful story. But it's not a
[17:21]beautiful story just because we found the prince charming. And that's just, you know, a nice
[17:27]nice little cherry on nice handsome cherry on top. So that's the story. It didn't come without
[17:34]a lot of pain and a lot of hard choices. You know, I tell my stories and I always cry because they're
[17:41]beautiful stories. But there was so much heartbreak and so much struggle that went into this.
[17:47]And there will be more heartbreak and there will be more struggle for all of us. And that's
[17:51]what it is to be alive. And that's why I can't wait to write this next book. I have so much,
[17:57]so much to say about this stuff. Wait, so tell me about your next book and congratulations on your
[18:03]book deal. So exciting. Tell everybody the name and when it's about and all the rest of it.
[18:08]Okay, I'm so glad I can announce it on your podcast. It happened like a second ago.
[18:15]So we're calling it this might be too personal. And it's a series of essays on my own private
[18:21]stories of love and pain as tied to my career as love, sex, and celebrity writer. Because so many
[18:28]of my relationships and hardships happen because of work, you know, where I was with work or my career,
[18:34]my ambition or my successes or my failure. And mostly my failures. So it's all in there together
[18:41]sort of like maybe you should talk to someone, which I'm listening to right now and loving. But
[18:47]just their personal stories, but in relation to my really unique work life, I'm so excited to do it.
[18:53]There's nothing I'm not going to talk about. I'm scared, but I'm really excited.
[18:57]And before you were saying you have high hopes, it's going to be a masterpiece, which is like
[19:02]the greatest thing to hear from a writer. I love it. No doubt it's going to be amazing. I cannot wait.
[19:08]Especially from that like, I'm not like one of those neurotic self-pating writers.
[19:13]Thank god. I think that's it. You're a good owner. Why not? I mean, it's awesome. And your recent
[19:20]articles in the New York Times have been so amazing. And I particularly appreciated letting
[19:25]your article when you left every married couple off the hook from having sex in the pandemic.
[19:29]That was very kind of used to things for that. I was really surprised that so many people were like,
[19:35]thank you so much. I'm like, isn't this what you talk about with your friends? Like,
[19:38]all we talked about is how we don't want to have sex. Like, that's literally the
[19:42]but I do want to get a lot. I did you have to have sex last night. Like, that is that's it. And
[19:48]you know, like I said in the story, we will all get our sex lives back. But oh god, not now.
[19:53]Oh my gosh. Well, I am so excited to
[20:00]who have gotten this sneak peek of your new book.
[20:02]I loved all your articles being a single mom
[20:05]and then how you just told it now
[20:07]and how you wrote about it in the times
[20:08]and here a recent article in the times
[20:10]in your book and all your other zillion articles
[20:13]and essays and everything.
[20:15]You're a fantastic writer
[20:16]and I love that you just share your voice so openly
[20:19]and you are who you are and it's just refreshing
[20:22]and awesome and I am so just rooting for you
[20:26]at every step as I was just even reading the book
[20:28]just like holding my breath and rooting for you.
[20:31]And so now I feel this sense of ridiculous pride.
[20:35]Oh, I just am meeting you having gone through your memoir
[20:39]that like it's, you know, to see where you are now
[20:42]and all you've been through.
[20:42]So oh my God.
[20:43]It's a key following you.
[20:44]It's like amazing.
[20:46]It's really seriously.
[20:48]It's super meaningful to like talk about the new book
[20:50]with you for the first time
[20:51]because I feel really safe with you
[20:53]and really close to you through our mutual friends
[20:56]and just I think that you're awesome.
[20:58]I think you are so good for women and writers
[21:01]and I'm lucky you're part of my tribe.
[21:04]Oh, well anything I can do to help with this new book.
[21:07]I mean, I'm like, I know it's gonna be amazing
[21:09]just like we do and I still think we should
[21:11]try to resurrect apron anxiety
[21:13]and get it back out there
[21:14]and not let it just, you know, sit undiscovered
[21:17]because it's so good.
[21:18]Anyway, glad we've met you.
[21:20]So good luck with everything you got
[21:22]you guys going through.
[21:23]Thank you.
[21:24]And you too.
[21:25]Okay, bye.
[21:26]Yes, bye.
[21:28]Thanks so much to firstbook.org for sponsoring
[21:31]this Labor Day book last.
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[21:39]serving children in need.
[21:40]Thanks for listening to this episode of Moms Don't Have Time
[21:43]to Read Books.
[21:44]Don't forget to follow me on Instagram at Zibi Owens
[21:47]and at Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books.
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[21:56]Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan at Textures Sound
[21:59]for the Sound Editing.
[22:00]And thank you to Morning Moon Productions
[22:02]for providing this fantastic intro and outroom music.