Supriya Kelkar, AMERICAN AS PANEER PIE
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[2:07]Supriya Kelker is the winner of the new visions award for her middle grade novel, a hymse. She's a screenwriter who has worked on the writing teams for several Hindi films. She was an associate producer on the Hollywood feature, Broken Horses.
[2:19]Supriya's books include a hymse, the many colors of harpy, sing, American as penier pie, which just came out and we're going to talk about that.
[2:27]Strong as fire, fierce as flame, bandoos, bendies, and that thing about Bollywood. I hope you enjoy our conversation.
[2:34]Welcome Supriya. Thanks so much for coming on momstone. Have time to read books.
[2:38]Thank you so much for having me. American as penier pie is like your, I feel like you've written so many
[2:43]books at this point and movies and you're like this like amazing creator. And you said in a note to me
[2:50]that this is your most personal book yet. So I wanted to talk about that. So can you tell everybody
[2:55]what American as penier pie is about and then tell me a little more about the inspiration behind it?
[3:00]Yeah, so American as penier pie is the story of Leika who is the only Indian American kid in a small
[3:08]town in Michigan. And Leika feels like she has two versions of herself. There's home Leika who
[3:14]loves watching Bollywood movies and eating Indian food. And then there's school Leika who
[3:20]pins her hair over her bendy birthmark and avoids confrontation at all costs, especially when it comes
[3:26]to being teased for her Indian culture. And when a racist incident rocks their small town,
[3:31]Leika must choose whether to continue to remain silent or find her voice and speak out against hate.
[3:37]So like Leika, I grew up in a small town in Michigan. I wasn't the only South Asian American kid
[3:44]in town, but it was not a diverse town at all. There were, you know, daily incidents of microaggressions
[3:51]and othering we had a rock thrown through our window. I have the same hair as Leika, like really
[3:57]big, thick curly hair. And even in the DC community, which is the South Asian diaspora, you know,
[4:03]there's really a preference towards silky, wavy hair. And so curly hair is not the beauty standard.
[4:10]And in my town, that also was not the beauty standard because very few if any people had hair
[4:15]like mine. So people would walk by and touch my hair, tap it as they walked by. Someone wrote
[4:22]put a comb in that rat's nest in Sharpie on my locker. So yeah, so a lot of those incidents
[4:29]that are in the book are straight from my life. I adjusted them to Leika's story. But, you know,
[4:35]when I first saw the cover by Abigail De La Cruz and designer Laurel and Dacey and I,
[4:42]I was so floored because there's this picture I put up on Instagram. That's me. And I was like,
[4:47]that looks exactly like me on the cover because I used to tie my hair back in a bun because,
[4:53]you know, people would touch it and people would make fun of it. And I didn't take my
[4:57]hair out. I didn't wear my curls out until I was 38, like a year, half ago. Yeah. So, you know,
[5:04]there's so much from my life and Leika finds her voice while she's in middle school. I didn't
[5:10]find my voice until I went to college at the University of Michigan and it was so diverse and
[5:14]they accepted diversity. And, you know, it was, it was a strength. It wasn't seen as, you know,
[5:20]something that you would get me fun of for. So, I didn't find my voice until college. So,
[5:24]unlike me, Leika finds her voice a lot earlier. So, I hope that this book inspires and empowers
[5:31]kids everywhere to know that their story matters and that, you know, I hope it empowers them to
[5:36]find their voice. I'm looking at your hair now. I know this will be audio, but because we're on
[5:41]Skype, your hair is absolutely gorgeous. And, by the way, it looks like, I mean, I'm from the Jewish
[5:46]background. Looks like everybody I know is there? I mean, like, curly, wavy hair I was, you know,
[5:52]just giving my daughter a function of beauty, like, new product for her curls. So, I don't know. I mean,
[5:57]I think the things that like, you feel are your most insecure about and that being like,
[6:03]complete. It's like, anyway. I think you know what I'm trying to say. But that's horrible. I
[6:10]can't believe you had to endure that in your school environment and all the rest. And I also couldn't
[6:16]believe it when, like, I mean, I don't want to give anything away by describing what the incident
[6:20]was. Should we give it secret? Yes. Okay. But I was also sort of shocked by that. And then even how
[6:27]peers, like how her best friend, like, almost wanted to exploit it for his own gain and how
[6:34]she felt. And even, you know, this is like, so perfectly middle school, the way you captured
[6:39]some of these things. One, you know, the sleepover incident and having like, lie her way, you know,
[6:44]out of that because she didn't want to be excluded from something else. And like, not knowing
[6:49]what to do and how to not be left out without hurting someone else. I mean, the politics of middle
[6:55]school are like, it's just stunning. And you just captured it all like so, so well. It's amazing.
[7:01]And then the added layer, of course, of feeling that sense of otherness. Yeah. And I loved your
[7:06]character who moves across the way, you know, very early on. And I'm blanking on her name. But I
[7:11]can look it up. Yeah. Yeah. So when Monica comes, and it's almost like a mirror for Lakea. Yeah.
[7:18]Does she want to, like, double down and sort of become good friends or does she want to push it
[7:22]away because it's a part of herself that she's not feeling super comfortable with. And then
[7:26]have their relationship unfolds. Like, I don't know. So awesome. Anyway. And also,
[7:32]Avantika has so much confidence. Like, yeah, but especially, like, talk a little more about the way
[7:38]that she talks to the teacher or how even when the teacher is like, it wasn't India under
[7:42]British rule. And she's like, yeah, just like America, you know, more on. Tell me a little
[7:47]about forming these characters. And if Lakea was sort of the you in this, who was everyone else
[7:52]and how did you come up with them all? Yeah. So I did not have Avantika at my school. There were
[7:58]maybe two other Indian American kids in elementary school with me. And we sort of huddled together
[8:04]a lot on the playground and stuff. But yeah, I thought back to when my cousin moved in with us when
[8:10]I was in high school. And he was just with us for a couple months. And, you know, all those feelings
[8:17]of, oh, this person has an accent. And so do my parents. And my embarrassed of this and my proud
[8:24]of this, you know, there's just so much there for a child of immigrants in a space that doesn't
[8:29]accept that. So I wanted to put that all in there and have a character who was so proud of who she
[8:36]was, you know, and who didn't take the bullying the way Lakea was sort of forced to take it
[8:42]due to her circumstances. So I wanted that role model. And I also wanted to, you know, use Avantika to
[8:49]talk about some of the issues, the intra community issues in the they see community about colorism.
[8:55]I think just recently, a lot of those fairness creams announced that they are either changing their
[9:02]name or, you know, doing something that the product still exists. So, you know, I wanted to call
[9:08]attention to that and show that there is still there's, you know, racism and and othering within
[9:14]the South Asian American community as well. So Avantika was a great character to do that with
[9:19]growing up. My next-door neighbor was a white boy. So that's where Noah came from. And then I guess
[9:26]the other characters are pretty fictional, but they are based on sort of a combination of bullies
[9:33]and friends from school, from growing up. And how did you feel having gotten this story out?
[9:38]You know, I have taken a lot longer to write other books of mine, but I wrote this draft in five weeks.
[9:45]I wrote it in 2017 at a time when it felt like people in power were really, you know, condoning
[9:51]eight. And it was being emboldened and encouraged everywhere. So I actually live in the same
[9:57]small town I grew up in. It has doubled in size.
[10:00]It's a lot more diverse, but it still has, you know,
[10:03]really bad incidence of racism still.
[10:06]And I had two young kids and my third was a baby in 2017
[10:11]and I found myself so worried about
[10:14]whether my kids would face the same things I did
[10:18]because they're going to the same schools I did.
[10:20]And from that fear, the story just came
[10:24]and it came to me so quickly.
[10:26]I've never written a novel this past.
[10:29]I write picture books in several months.
[10:31]And this was in five weeks.
[10:33]And so it just sort of poured out of me
[10:35]and it was such a release when I wrote it.
[10:38]And I really felt like I had finally spoken up
[10:41]for myself as a child, you know, decades later.
[10:45]So yeah, it felt good to write it.
[10:47]Wow, that's amazing.
[10:48]Great, you can give it to your kids to read and that's awesome.
[10:51]Yeah, it's so awesome.
[10:52]The things that happened when you were young,
[10:54]I mean, I remember like there was some incident
[10:56]in second grade where I like opened
[10:57]my rickety wooden desk when I first got to school.
[11:01]And inside there was like a script written note
[11:03]on like lined paper that said like Dear Zibi,
[11:06]I hate you from Guess Who.
[11:08]And I was like, I like burst into tears.
[11:10]And then I also like didn't want anyone to know
[11:13]and should I show the teacher and should I not?
[11:15]And he wasn't and what, you know,
[11:17]that could have been like for whatever reason,
[11:19]I have forgotten like most of college half of high school
[11:23]probably, but this one moment is like I can tell you
[11:26]every sense and things.
[11:28]So I feel like some of these moments that happened to us
[11:31]for any reason are just they're just the pain
[11:34]and then knowing that our kids can experience things
[11:37]like that coming up and what to do about them.
[11:39]At least now you've written this amazing book.
[11:41]So anyway, it's just so sorry that happened to you.
[11:44]No, I mean, it's just, no, it was just a silly example.
[11:47]I mean, but it sticks with you, right?
[11:49]It's that's my point.
[11:51]Yeah, that was, you know, just everything
[11:54]becomes a magnified, especially a younger age
[11:56]whereas maybe now we could brush it up for or maybe not,
[11:59]but I don't know.
[12:01]How did you get into writing and picture books
[12:03]and screen writing and all of it?
[12:05]How did you start on this whole trajectory of your life?
[12:08]Yeah, so in third grade, our teacher had us write books
[12:12]and he bound them in hardcover and it's really silly
[12:15]but I thought it was so cool to see my name on hardcover.
[12:17]I was like, this is what I'm gonna do.
[12:19]So from that moment on, I wanted to be an author.
[12:22]Somewhere in middle school, I decided I wanted to be
[12:24]a Bollywood screenwriter instead.
[12:26]So at the University of Michigan,
[12:28]they had brought in a big movie producer, director,
[12:32]and writer and I had written a thesis the summer before
[12:36]and one section was on one of his movies.
[12:38]So I handed it to him after he spoke
[12:41]and then I thought I'd never hear from him again.
[12:43]This was back in the day of answering machine tapes.
[12:47]One day I came back to my college apartment
[12:50]and his voice was on the answering machine
[12:52]and he called me over to meet him
[12:54]and after I graduated, I started writing for him
[12:57]so I joined his green writing team
[12:59]and we worked on several movies.
[13:01]I worked for him for a little over a decade.
[13:04]That was, it was so much fun to go to LA
[13:08]or to Mumbai and be just having dinner
[13:12]with the stars whose posters were on my wall as a kid.
[13:15]So except I had to play it really cool.
[13:17]Yeah.
[13:18]So I did that and then when I had kids,
[13:21]I wasn't able to work those really long hours.
[13:24]It would be working to like two or three a.m. sometimes
[13:27]and I'd have to fly to India or LA at a moment's notice
[13:32]sometimes literally so I just couldn't commit to that anymore.
[13:36]So I started going back to books
[13:38]and in between screenwriting,
[13:40]any time I had a break between screenplays,
[13:42]I would work on the book that became my first published book
[13:46]at himself.
[13:47]So I wrote that in 2003 and that first draft
[13:50]was pretty awful,
[13:51]but I would keep going back to it every year
[13:53]for 13 years I think until I finally got it to a good place.
[13:58]And that book ended up winning the New Visions Award
[14:01]from Lee and Low Books.
[14:03]And so that's how I got published.
[14:05]And then from then on I just sort of switched over
[14:08]to novels and picture books.
[14:10]And it's been like a dream,
[14:11]a literal dream come true from third grade.
[14:14]So that's so amazing.
[14:16]Oh my gosh.
[14:17]And how do you decide what type of picture books
[14:19]you're right to?
[14:20]So I just sometimes I just get an idea from my kids
[14:25]or I don't really know if they're usually,
[14:28]most of my picture books are also about the themes
[14:30]that are in American has been your pie or in a hymn.
[14:32]So they're usually about social justice
[14:35]or feeling other or how to feel like you belong.
[14:40]So the themes are consistent even if the books are
[14:43]one is 500 words and one is 50,000 words.
[14:46]Yeah, that's amazing.
[14:48]And so what types of projects do you have in the works?
[14:50]Are you thinking of going back to film?
[14:52]And I know you have some exciting things coming up.
[14:54]And yeah, I think you're a little bit about doing
[14:58]some film stuff if I can as the kids get a little older.
[15:02]But yeah, I have a few books coming out.
[15:04]I have another historical fiction book coming out
[15:08]sometime early next year called Strongest Fire Fierce's Flame.
[15:11]And so that I got that idea when I thought back
[15:14]to the only Indian representation I saw
[15:17]in my entire childhood in school.
[15:19]And that was when they showed us a little bit
[15:21]of the secret garden movie.
[15:24]And I remember feeling so weird
[15:25]about how the Indian characters are like backdrops
[15:28]in their own land.
[15:29]They're just props and they're servants
[15:32]and they're in the background.
[15:33]And so this book takes place in 1857.
[15:36]And it really challenges who we center
[15:38]in these kinds of stories and whose stories being told
[15:42]and whose being left out and what we consider classics
[15:45]when sort of rethinking all of that.
[15:48]And then I have a picture of a coming out in March
[15:51]called Bindu's Bindies from Sterling.
[15:53]And that's about a girl who loves to match the shape
[15:56]of her Bindies to her non-e to her grandmother's Bindies.
[15:59]And then in summer I have another book
[16:02]from Simon and Schuster, B-F-Y-R, called that thing
[16:06]about Bollywood.
[16:07]And so that combines a little bit of my Bollywood background.
[16:10]So it's about a girl who is really bad at expressing herself
[16:14]who loves Hindi movies.
[16:16]And when her parents announced that they're separating,
[16:18]she is afflicted with this magical condition
[16:21]that forces her to show her emotions
[16:23]in the most obvious way possible
[16:25]through Bollywood song and dance numbers.
[16:27]So I'm really excited about that one.
[16:31]That's awesome.
[16:32]Wow, yeah.
[16:32]Just like a fountain of sort of creativity and ideas
[16:35]and output, how are you doing this?
[16:38]You have three kids.
[16:38]I have four kids.
[16:39]Like when are you, how, and especially with the pandemic
[16:42]and everything, how are you carving out the time?
[16:44]Like how are you doing this?
[16:46]Yeah, it's been really hard with, you know, in the pandemic.
[16:50]It's really not had much time at all to do it
[16:53]because with homeschooling and my husband's a healthcare worker,
[16:57]so he's been at the hospital all the time.
[16:59]So it was just me at home with the kids most days.
[17:02]So yeah, not very productive right now,
[17:04]but even normally I would usually work at night.
[17:08]I would work like 10 to 2 a.m.
[17:11]And then, you know, I was thinking
[17:12]as when my youngest got a little older this year
[17:15]and was gonna go to school full time,
[17:16]I was gonna have more time,
[17:17]but I think we are virtually learning this year.
[17:21]So I guess I'll figure this out.
[17:24]My youngest is gonna start kindergarten
[17:26]or I mean, it's supposed to start kindergarten in the fall
[17:29]and for the last few years I was like, okay, well,
[17:32]when he gets to kindergarten, I'm gonna have all kinds of time,
[17:36]you know, like little did I know
[17:38]that like, you know, his three hour preschool
[17:40]was the biggest break I would have for years to come
[17:43]or whatever it seems to have.
[17:45]Oh my gosh.
[17:46]So when you work from 10 to 2,
[17:50]which is like insanely impressive and amazing,
[17:53]how do you do the words just like flow out?
[17:56]I know you said for this last one for the,
[17:58]it took you just five weeks.
[17:59]Do you outline the whole thing?
[18:00]Do you like what's your process like?
[18:02]Do you have it all set up?
[18:03]And then you just write,
[18:05]tell me a little more about your process.
[18:07]Yeah, I do.
[18:07]So because of the screenwriting,
[18:09]so I was a film major in college,
[18:10]so I studied with a concentration on screenwriting.
[18:13]So because of that background,
[18:14]it was really drilled into us
[18:15]that you have to outline outline outline all the time.
[18:18]So yeah, I definitely, I think about the book
[18:22]for a long time for several weeks
[18:23]until I understand the character
[18:25]and I'll hand write notes in a notebook.
[18:27]And then I go to the computer to outline
[18:30]and I work on that for a long time usually.
[18:34]In the case of America,
[18:35]it's been your pie, it's sort of all just fell into place,
[18:37]but I will work on that outline for a long time
[18:40]and I use a three-act structure
[18:41]from screenwriting in my books.
[18:43]And then I start writing.
[18:46]And then once I write it,
[18:48]I have several critique partners that I share with
[18:50]and I get their feedback,
[18:52]then I send it to my agent
[18:53]and I incorporate her feedback
[18:55]and then if it's ready to go out, it goes out.
[18:59]Yeah, it takes a village, all of it.
[19:02]Yes.
[19:03]Can you go back to what you said earlier
[19:05]in our conversation about not wearing your hair down
[19:07]until you were 38 years old?
[19:09]What was that, what changed?
[19:11]What was that moment like?
[19:12]Like what was the day where you said
[19:14]I'm wearing it down and I'm wearing it curly
[19:16]and just like tell me about that moment of change?
[19:19]I was actually in edits on this book
[19:21]and I was like, you know what,
[19:24]I'm being a hypocrite if I'm still like ashamed
[19:27]of my hair when Leica is, you know,
[19:31]going through this whole process
[19:32]to learn to love herself.
[19:34]So one day I just did it.
[19:35]And I was like, oh, this is what it feels like
[19:37]to have the breeze go through here.
[19:39]Like I haven't felt this since I was a little kid, you know?
[19:42]So I did it and I have to admit
[19:45]I was very awkward and nervous doing it
[19:49]because my whole life I had been told this is ugly
[19:52]and this should be, you know, brushed and tied back
[19:55]and or you're not brushing it right
[19:57]it's looking like that even though
[19:58]this is my hair if you ask.
[20:00]I brush it. It's going to be just all knotted. So it took a while and I finally got used to it.
[20:06]And I'm so happy I finally did this. It took a few decades, but I'm glad I did it.
[20:13]I don't know. Maybe you already have it. I didn't find it, but you should write an essay about
[20:17]this about this whole day. I haven't. You should. You have to write it.
[20:21]It's such a perfect time for it and such a metaphor in this whole letting your hair down and
[20:26]Yeah, that's a great idea. Okay, so you get right to that. I'll
[20:33]do you have advice for aspiring authors? Yeah, I would say to read as much as you can
[20:39]because you learn so much from every book you read. Even if you don't like a book, I think you
[20:45]can understand. Oh, what didn't I like about this? Did I not like the way the character was
[20:49]developed? Did I not like the turns in the plot? So I would say read a ton and you know, don't be
[20:54]attached to your words. I know it's a whole process to get to that point where you understand that
[21:00]the first draft is not the perfect draft and that you need other readers to look at it and take
[21:05]their feedback into consideration. But yeah, just don't be attached to your words and be prepared
[21:10]to revise a lot. Like I said with a hymn saw that was over a decade of revisions. And if I had
[21:16]stopped revising, it would never have won this award and I would never have been published. So
[21:23]yeah, read and revise. Wow. And what about to somebody out there who might be going through the
[21:28]type of otherness and hatred and discrimination and any sort and really just needs that
[21:35]encouragement that it's going to get better. How about some empowering words? You know,
[21:40]I would just say to remember that your story matters and you are important and the world
[21:46]deserves to hear your story. When I was growing up when I look back at all the books I had written
[21:51]as a kid. Every character was white with yellow hair when I illustrated it which would have been
[21:56]great if that was me but that's not how I looked. But I never saw myself in a book or a TV show or a
[22:03]movie growing up. There was not that representation. So I thought somewhere along the way I got
[22:09]the message that I, you know, my story didn't matter. I was erased from our American, you know,
[22:14]current history. So I would just say to remember that you do matter and the world is a better place
[22:20]because you're here and we all would love to hear your story. Every character I made up as a kid
[22:27]was usually named Cindy with blonde hair and blue eyes. Often she was a twin, not always.
[22:34]I don't know what my fascination was. Like, I don't know. My Barbie dolls? I don't know. I don't know
[22:38]what it was. But that is certainly not what I look like. Although, you know, the highlights are
[22:42]helping but I'll never quite get there. Anyway, I guess it's in a way it's one of those like
[22:49]wanting what you can't have. Although, frankly, I wouldn't really want it because it sounds like a
[22:52]lot of upkeep to be blonde when you get older. So, you know, this is a blessing. Anyway, well,
[22:58]thank you so much. Thanks for coming on Momstone. I have time to read books. Thanks for this great
[23:02]book. American has been your pie. And now I have to go get your children's books from my little
[23:06]guys. And I'm really impressed. You're so articulate and thoughtful and the messages in your book are
[23:12]really important and great and how amazing to target it to the age group that needs it most to make
[23:18]the biggest impact going forward for the whole world. So, anyway, thank you for your contributions.
[23:24]Thank you so much for having me on. It's my pleasure. Okay. I'll have a great day.
[23:29]Thank you. Bye.
[23:32]Thanks again to Jumpstart, whose campaign read for the record begins this fall. Go to read
[23:37]for the record.org to purchase Evelyn Del Rey's moving away to help donate and support a classroom
[23:44]in need and help Jumpstart reach their goal of achieving early literacy for everyone.
[23:48]Thanks for listening to this episode of Momstone Have Time to Read Books. Don't forget to
[23:52]follow me on Instagram at zibbowens and at moms don't have time to read books. Also sign
[23:57]up for my newsletter at zibbowens.com and sign up for my virtual book club and meet lots of authors
[24:02]on zoom every other week. Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan at Textures Sound for the Sound Editing.
[24:07]And thank you to Morning Moon Productions for providing this fantastic intro and out trim music.