Susan Wiggs, THE LOST AND FOUND BOOKSHOP
[0:08]Hi, I'm Zivi Owens, and you're listening to the award-winning podcast,
[0:11]Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books. Thanks so much for listening to my podcast.
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[1:00]that, which was a very, very nice of them. Anyway, I hope you enjoy and thank you to the
[1:04]Helm for sponsoring. I did this interview with Susan Wigs via Instagram Live, which was a lot of fun,
[1:09]although with everybody we had some connection problems, but ignore those. Susan is a number one
[1:15]New York Times best-selling author, and we talked about her latest book, also a New York Times
[1:19]best-seller, but I didn't know it then. I mean, nobody knew it then, but I could have predicted,
[1:24]but I didn't. But anyway, whatever, it's called The Lost and Found Bookshop. She currently lives
[1:28]on an island in Puget Sound and has been a writing fan for her entire life. She is an internationally
[1:36]best-selling award-winning author, millions of copies of her books have been in print,
[1:40]in numerous countries and languages. She's a former teacher, a Harvard graduate, an avid
[1:46]hiker, an amateur photographer, and divides her time between sleeping and waking.
[1:52]And how do you tell her that introduction was probably the best one that I've ever seen,
[1:57]so I should probably be late more often. Oh, my god.
[2:02]I'm just thinking of rambling on and on about your books, so
[2:08]pretty much how I write a book, rambling on and on.
[2:12]I think that's the book with a ramble. I'm just saying, you know,
[2:16]there's so much in it. It was so great. Just so it was so, I said multi-faceted. I
[2:21]should have said just so textural. There's so many different elements to it, so thank you.
[2:26]Thank you so much. That book was my life for a year. I've heard a statistic that the average
[2:32]woman speaks 30,000 words a day, and I always think I should just be able to talk for three
[2:40]days and write a book, but it doesn't really work that way. So thank you for appreciating that.
[2:46]Well, tell me about 50 novels. That's insane. Over how many years have you written 50 novels?
[2:53]That's just the most inspirational thing.
[2:56]Is it really? I hope so. Either that or, you know, I just have no life.
[3:01]No, I actually, I published my first book in 1987. It was a historical romance, a cowboy romance,
[3:08]and it came out in 1987 when I was in my 20s, and I've published a book or two ever since.
[3:15]So yeah, yeah, it's been, it's been my life. I was a teacher. I'd love to be a teacher. It was,
[3:22]you know, my second favorite career, I guess, but the writing eventually took over.
[3:26]And then this one, The Lost and Found Bookshop, it's the 50-somethingth novel, but it's kind of lost
[3:33]count. Cool, yes. And thank you so much for having me and thanks for your patience waiting for me
[3:40]to go live with you. This is my first time to go live.
[3:43]This, this kind of happening I did this show during the quarantine the first couple of months,
[3:47]and I would say like half the people had not done a show before. So, you know, I'm happy to be the
[3:51]one ushering in this new technology. So Susan, you've written 50 plus books. How did you come up
[3:57]with the idea for this? I know you kind of alluded to some things and your acknowledgements about
[4:02]who may have helped you come up with it, but tell me, tell me the whole story.
[4:05]Well, it's a, it's a long-time fantasy that I've had, and probably a lot of writers and readers
[4:11]have had of owning a bookshop. And so I'd always wanted to write that storyline, and then
[4:17]this one kind of came to me because I, I usually try to give the main character of the book,
[4:25]a job that I'd love to have. And this actually is my favorite moment in the life cycle of a book,
[4:32]because I've done my work, my editors done her work, the publisher has, they made, you know,
[4:38]I hope what is, you know, a beautiful package for the book. Do you like the cover? I love the
[4:44]cover. It was a long journey to get to it. You wouldn't believe the different looks that we went
[4:51]through. We had the streets of San Francisco, and we had crazy birds flying in feathers and
[4:58]things like that. And so by the time we got to this look, it was such a good moment because I think
[5:04]it was the first time everybody who saw it agreed that, you know, this looks like the kind of book
[5:10]that, you know, will look yummy to readers. And, yeah, I'm sorry, this is, this is my just
[5:15]in the morning. This is Lenny, and he's actually from Salinas, California, from a shelter there. So
[5:23]he's like all over me because he knows I'm ignoring him right now. Yeah. Anyways, we're getting my
[5:28]canine companion while I, while I write. But, you know, anyway, this one came to me also was inspired
[5:35]by my mom, who is elderly. And she lives with us, and she has early dementia, and there was a character
[5:41]in the book, who also has it and presents a lot of tender moments, but also many loving challenges
[5:49]to his granddaughter Natalie, who's not only in charge of him, but in charge of this struggling
[5:54]bookstore in the historic district of San Francisco, and the ins and outs of that. I'm glad you
[6:00]mentioned Trevor Dashwood. One of the love interests, you know, he has a clearly made-up name,
[6:05]and a clearly made-up bio, and he's kind of a fantasy figure now. I think if I was a bookseller,
[6:11]I would fantasize about, you know, one of the world's best-selling authors coming to my shop,
[6:16]and, you know, and it turns out, you know, he's more than one of these names, and very different,
[6:23]and as in many stories that I love that the answer to all your, you know, all your problems is
[6:30]right in front of you, but you don't see it until you've made this journey. Interesting. Yes,
[6:35]there was one of many twists that I felt like kept coming unexpectedly. I guess that's what makes it
[6:40]a twist, I mean, obviously. But anyway, I didn't see some of these things even though you say it's
[6:44]right in front of you. I was like taken right along, but everyone else reading it, which is funny.
[6:49]So one of the things that was so great about the book is how you referenced all these books that
[6:55]are actual books, right? I was just mentioning this before. It was so funny to read
[6:59]books that even came out last year, like, this is everything we're Jennifer Weiner. I'm like,
[7:03]that just came out, and now here it is. You know, I remember when I included that because I was
[7:09]reading it, and I thought, this is fantastic. I want everybody to read this book, and then I
[7:14]thought, well, if I was a bookseller, this would be what was so fun about it is to be a book evangelist
[7:22]and to put the book in the hands of the reader who's most likely to read and enjoy it. And so
[7:28]that was kind of a little fun shout out about books that I've loved. Writers that I like,
[7:33]there are a couple that were made up, and a couple of kind of incidery books, like the book that
[7:39]she reads that her mother had left on the nightstand. I guess it's not a spoiler to say that
[7:45]she inherits her, the bookshop, and the alien granddad from her mom. And the mom left, I won't
[7:52]say how, but quite suddenly and shockingly. And the first thing that she does is she looks at,
[7:59]you know, while not one of the first things she does. She looks at the stack of books on mom's
[8:04]nightstand. And it pretty much reflected the stack of books on my nightstand. So some of those books
[8:11]are early drafts of books that I've written and appeared in another form. So I enjoyed doing that
[8:18]as well. But yes, a lot of the authors are friends of mine. There's one scene in a bar that's
[8:25]a fantasy. And this is another fantasy of mine. To have a library bar. And I was, I was concerned
[8:31]you were going to say the fantasy was having a four jello. I'm glad we went in different way
[8:37]with that one. How about a book four jello where yeah, you just you help yourself to a book and
[8:43]you know, have a drink. Yeah, but the library, all the cocktail recipes were named after Bay Area
[8:50]authors that I've either known and like or not known, but I like their books. So that was that was
[8:56]fun as well. And shout out to Gail Sukiyama. She has a book out on the same day as I do from the
[9:02]same publisher, different imprint. And her book is called the color of air. And it's kind of a
[9:08]family saga about a guy who goes back to Hawaii. Anyway, read the color of air. That's the one
[9:14]that I'm reading right now. So yeah. So so one one thing that unites some of the books that you've
[9:20]written is your interest in what happens to an ordinary person when something extraordinary happens.
[9:24]I think I read that somewhere. Anyway, what do you think it is that interest you about that moment?
[9:29]Because it is such a pivotal point in people's life, right? You just go about your life and
[9:33]everything is the same. And then one minute, everything is different. And you love examining that
[9:38]intersection of sort of past and present. Tell me a little bit about your attraction to that
[9:43]to that time in people's lives. I do. There's a writing memoir that Stephen King wrote,
[9:48]the author Stephen King called on writing. And somewhere in that book he says that the typical writer
[9:54]comes back to the same theme over and over again. And for me, it's usually...
[10:00]that healing power of love and family,
[10:02]but also I'm so attracted to just,
[10:05]I think most people don't wake up in the morning
[10:08]and feel like a hero, you know?
[10:10]Even though we need to be the hero of our own story.
[10:12]And so I'm very attracted to a storyline
[10:16]where a person is just going along in their life
[10:19]and, you know, some challenge just appears before her.
[10:23]And that's certainly the case with Natalie,
[10:25]you know, she's created this very safe, predictable,
[10:28]steady, secure life that did not feel like her chaotic
[10:32]childhood and that gets turned upside down in a moment.
[10:37]And that, the drama of that and to send somebody
[10:40]reeling with that is something that really drives
[10:43]the narrative for me as a writer
[10:45]and is something that I love as a reader to.
[10:47]So yeah, so that one, that was kind of a no brainer for me
[10:51]because the last thing that I want to read about
[10:54]is somebody who's satisfied with their life
[10:56]and she goes along and everything's fine.
[10:58]We want real life to work like that, but not fiction.
[11:02]I feel like now is an example of this
[11:04]that we're all sort of ordinary people
[11:07]where something extraordinary has happened to all of us
[11:09]with the complete, you know, grinding to a halt
[11:12]of modern society.
[11:13]Oh my gosh, yes, we all have these pandemic moments
[11:18]where we realize that something is just not happening.
[11:23]And when a book gets published, typically the first thing
[11:26]we do is we go out on a book tour,
[11:29]the publisher lines up book signings and visits
[11:32]and library lectures and you know,
[11:34]you get to go out and promote your book and meet readers
[11:37]and they had this really interesting book tour
[11:40]and lined up for the Lost and Found Bookshop
[11:42]where I was going to go from independent bookstore
[11:45]to independent bookstore and talk about book selling
[11:48]and what that is like today.
[11:50]And in like talk about in a moment, you know,
[11:53]I got an email that said nobody's scheduling anything
[11:57]for July, you know, early on we thought,
[11:59]oh, maybe summer will be back to normal.
[12:01]No, you know, we quickly realized.
[12:03]And so this is my book tour.
[12:05]So thank you so much for, you know, hosting me
[12:08]and letting me still talk about my book
[12:10]and talk to readers and thank you to people
[12:12]who are joining us and waving and shoutouts.
[12:15]I appreciate it so much.
[12:17]Now, I'll make this a podcast too.
[12:19]So a lot more people can listen to it that way.
[12:22]I work podcasts and I love audiobooks.
[12:25]I just got the audiobook to listen to you.
[12:27]That's the only way that I ever reread my books.
[12:30]After they're published, I tend to, you know,
[12:33]I'll read sections of it, but I don't see myself sitting
[12:37]down and reading it covered a cover
[12:38]because it would kind of make me mental
[12:40]because I'd want to, I don't know, tweak it or something.
[12:43]But when I listen to the audiobook,
[12:46]it's such a different dimension
[12:47]and it just adds so much.
[12:50]So I'm going to, it's a long book.
[12:52]So I'm probably have to going to walk to Chicago
[12:55]before I go through it all.
[12:57]But anyway, yeah.
[12:59]So the audiobook version just released as well.
[13:02]And so audiobooks and podcasts have cut me company
[13:06]in many ways through this.
[13:08]I always feel an even deeper connection
[13:10]when I listen to someone's audiobook,
[13:12]particularly like if it's a memoir
[13:13]and the author reads it themselves.
[13:16]I like to feel like we are, we are full on friends
[13:18]by the time I finish listening
[13:19]and that they don't even know me yet.
[13:22]But there's an intimacy to listening
[13:24]and I think I don't know podcasts, audiobooks, all of it.
[13:27]I don't know, I think it helps.
[13:28]Anyway, we can get the message to people
[13:30]even if it's not through a bookstore.
[13:31]But I really miss bookstores right now.
[13:34]I went to, I went back to one twice, I guess.
[13:37]But there's something so special about bookstores
[13:40]that can't be replicated.
[13:42]And it's not just about the shopping.
[13:43]I'm spending time trying to figure out why I feel so
[13:46]comfortable and at home and happy and like fulfilled
[13:50]when I walk into a bookstore,
[13:52]someone was sort of making fun of a picture
[13:53]I posted on Instagram, like,
[13:54]how could you possibly be that joyful on books?
[13:57]And I'm like, I don't know,
[13:58]but I really legitimately feel joy,
[14:01]like surrounded by books and in a bookstore.
[14:03]Like what do you think it is about bookstores
[14:06]that just fills us, I don't know.
[14:08]What do you think it is?
[14:09]Well, there's actually, that reminds me,
[14:12]I'm not gonna, I don't know the quote exactly,
[14:15]but I wrote a paragraph about that
[14:16]was Natalie's feeling of being in a bookstore
[14:19]is that people between the covers
[14:23]are still living their lives.
[14:25]And all you have to do, you know,
[14:26]to bring them back to life is to open the covers.
[14:29]And so if you look around, it's such a feast
[14:32]for the eyes and the brain and everything.
[14:35]And there's something really enticing
[14:37]about browsing through the shelves
[14:40]and looking at the tables.
[14:41]And so I tried to include scenes
[14:44]that have always resonated with me.
[14:46]You know, the reader who comes in who, you know,
[14:50]thinks she wants a serious book
[14:52]to impress her book club.
[14:53]And she ends up, you know, walking away
[14:55]with a Jennifer Wiener book, you know,
[14:57]and things like that.
[14:58]So I tried to include that.
[15:00]I also included a writer who should be very familiar
[15:04]to readers for Dave's Quill Ransom.
[15:07]And she's a nice lady and people love her books
[15:10]and she's everybody's mother's favorite author.
[15:13]And she's very excited.
[15:15]Her book is coming out in the bookseller, you know,
[15:17]organizers this lovely book signing.
[15:20]And then it's a horrible day and nobody comes.
[15:23]Because I thought I should show that side of it as well
[15:28]and how that can still have a good outcome,
[15:30]which it does for this nice lady author.
[15:32]But I must say you don't make it seem easy
[15:36]to run a bookstore.
[15:37]I mean, the debt and the, like, the building
[15:41]and the inventory and you made many references
[15:44]in the book about obviously digital books
[15:46]and digital book sellers.
[15:47]And it's not easy.
[15:49]I mean, how, I don't know.
[15:50]I do everything I can to help, you know,
[15:52]promoting them and shopping even on bookshop.org
[15:54]and having my little storefront.
[15:55]But like, how can we make sure that these gems don't leave?
[15:59]I'm like so nervous that after this pandemic,
[16:02]we're gonna walk back into different neighborhoods
[16:04]and all my favorite stores are gonna be gone.
[16:08]I agree.
[16:09]I totally agree.
[16:10]And that's another thing that came into sharp focus
[16:13]with the pandemic.
[16:14]I had a book out last year called the Oysterville Sewing Circle
[16:17]and it did quite well and it resonated with readers
[16:20]and then what happened at the end of February
[16:22]when everything shut down, it came out in paperback
[16:25]and became a best seller on the New York Times.
[16:28]And I was kind of shocked that that happened.
[16:30]And so somebody at my publisher pointed out
[16:33]all the bookstores closed,
[16:34]but all the essential stores like the Walmart's
[16:38]and the targets and the Costco's got to stay open.
[16:41]And those are the ones that sell the rack size paperback.
[16:44]And so the book, the Oysterville book was out
[16:47]and rack size paperback.
[16:48]And so that was something that was still able to sell
[16:50]when the bookstores closed.
[16:52]And then I started thinking,
[16:55]if I'm an independent bookseller, what do I do now?
[16:59]And so they were so creative.
[17:02]I'm so impressed by some of the initiatives they took
[17:05]that online presence and the curbside delivery.
[17:09]And so we still got to support them that way.
[17:12]And thank you for bringing up bookshop.org.
[17:14]This is a way for people who are listening
[17:17]to shop at independent bookstores anywhere.
[17:20]Even if there's not one in your community,
[17:23]you can still buy from that
[17:24]and it benefits independent bookstores.
[17:26]And so I'm very happy to be able to give them a shout out
[17:29]to that one.
[17:30]I believe that actually came into being
[17:32]because of the pandemic.
[17:34]And so I'm kind of excited that it's become such a thing
[17:38]in book selling now.
[17:39]It actually, it started before
[17:41]because I had a call with them before this all happened.
[17:44]I remember I was out in California.
[17:45]I was like, this is such a great idea.
[17:47]A friend of mine had told me about it.
[17:49]But then they just happened to be like in the perfect position.
[17:52]And I mean, not to say it.
[17:53]Anybody should benefit.
[17:55]But they were in a position to help
[17:56]when the pandemic did start.
[17:58]And then you can watch as their profits have grown.
[18:01]Anyway, it's a great outlet.
[18:03]That's amazing.
[18:04]And yeah, bookstores and libraries are the ones
[18:07]that kind of keep the culture in our communities
[18:11]and in our minds.
[18:12]And so I'm just so grateful to be able to walk into a bookstore
[18:17]and find my book.
[18:19]I'd also like to give a shout out
[18:21]to a fellow author named Suzanne Salvers.
[18:23]She opened a bookstore.
[18:25]She took over an established bookstore on February 1st.
[18:29]And so the timing could not have been worse
[18:32]for launching a new business.
[18:34]And that was actually going to be a stop on my book
[18:37]tour that suddenly turned virtual.
[18:39]And so one thing that readers can do,
[18:41]they can go to my website, SusanWaste.com.
[18:43]And the events page will list all the virtual events
[18:46]that I have.
[18:47]And so yeah, please look for Suzanne and me too.
[18:51]Yeah, we do what we can with these indie bookstores.
[18:54]And I think they're doing OK.
[18:56]I hope they are.
[18:57]Good.
[18:57]Yeah.
[18:59]One of the things that I thought was so funny in your book
[19:01]was how when Nan Lee was debating sort of what type of guy,
[19:06]as one of the negatives about someone,
[19:07]she talked about how he wasn't a book person
[19:09]and how that filled her with anxiety.
[19:12]And was that fair of her?
[19:13]Not.
[19:14]I thought that was so funny.
[19:16]Well, one of the first conversations
[19:19]that I had with Jerry, who eventually became my husband,
[19:23]was about the fact that he was reading one of my books.
[19:26]And he was not really reading it.
[19:28]He would email me questions about it.
[19:29]And so I could see that he was really into it.
[19:33]And that's a question.
[19:35]Can you be with somebody who's a non-reader who doesn't
[19:39]have your same book DNA or book chromosome?
[19:43]I don't know.
[19:44]I don't know.
[19:45]I think it would be challenging.
[19:46]It definitely was for Natalie.
[19:48]Because even though she had issues with the way
[19:53]that she grew up in an apartment up over a struggling bookstore,
[19:58]she builds very much a book person.
[20:00]Yes. The one other thing I just wanted to bring up is during the period of sort of loss and grief.
[20:06]You talked about how this whole trend towards celebrating a life, right?
[20:11]When someone passes away and you have a celebration for their life and how the people who
[20:14]love them most don't feel like celebrating at all. They feel like the opposite and not even
[20:18]wanting to go on some of the time. Tell me a little bit about that and then I was wondering,
[20:21]like, did that come from a personal place? Did you have a loss where you felt something similar?
[20:27]There's a lot of personal things. They've been transmuted into a more dramatic and exciting
[20:34]journey than I've had. But I did lose my elderly dad. He died with Parkinson's and one of the things
[20:40]that I've always kept with me is the way we as a family made his exit happen for us and dealt
[20:47]with our grief. And one of the things was we had a giant party and it was a memorial and we all set
[20:53]our pieces. But we were wearing party dresses. We were drinking champagne. We were sitting on the
[20:59]patio and reminiscing and telling stories at the church and everything. And so the memorial
[21:06]celebration that takes place in the book, a lot of that came from my memories of those days.
[21:12]And I wanted to, well, unfortunately she was very traumatized by the whole situation,
[21:18]but I wanted her to find a way out. And I think the way that she journeyed through that transition
[21:25]was a reflection of the way that I kind of did the same thing. And those scenes and conversations,
[21:31]they were really emotional for me to write. And I hope for readers to read. And another reason
[21:38]that I love having a book out now is that everybody who reads, reads a different book, you know,
[21:45]you're going to read it and bring your creativity and your life experience and your lived
[21:49]experiences into the story in a unique way. And so I can publish one book, but everybody who reads
[21:56]it will read a different book. And so that storyline, unfortunately, nobody makes it out of this
[22:03]alive. And so I think it's the way that we manage the journey through those transitions is key to
[22:12]you know, the way that we manage our lives and our love. Well, I'm really glad you took your
[22:18]experience and put it in there because I know many people including myself have felt the same way
[22:22]about different losses. So it's always great to have perspective and share in that feeling,
[22:28]even though it's, you know, inevitable, I think that the shared experience is the thing that
[22:32]books do such a great job of doing is making all of us feel less alone in the things that happen.
[22:37]Well, single thing you're doing was the other kind of personal trope that I brought in. And so
[22:43]probably my favorite character is Dorothy, you know, she's got a single dad. And their relationship
[22:50]was, I mean, it came entirely out of my imagination. I've never been a single dad, but I tried to
[22:56]include some of the challenges and some of the rewards of that too. Because one thing that people,
[23:02]I think overlook, you know, in conversations about single parenthood are the rewards of it.
[23:08]Suddenly you, you're the one, you know, you're on deck and your relationship is going to be
[23:13]different because it's due in the world, not, you know, not two parents. And I really wanted to
[23:21]explore that in the book and hopefully, you know, readers will have some feelings about that and
[23:26]share that aspect of it too. Yeah, that was another great part. I'm telling you, there was so much
[23:31]in this book. You obviously know this, but you touched on so many different themes. It was, it was
[23:35]very satisfying that way. I know some of your other books have been adapted or are being adapted
[23:40]for film and TV. And I was just wondering, are you, do you have plans to take this book to the screen
[23:45]as well? Oh my gosh, every book I, that's another, you know, fantasy of mine is to see it adapted
[23:53]for the, for TV or for a movie. This one, I'm hopeful of this one. I have a film agent. I'm sure
[24:00]sure she's shopping it around to production companies. This one, I feel like was really lend itself
[24:05]because the setting is contained mostly in the bookstore, you know, most of the, the book takes place
[24:11]there. And in and around San Francisco, that's just, that would just be a bonus. So I would love
[24:16]to see that. Unfortunately, the author has very little to do or say, you know, unless the author is
[24:21]Nicholas Sparks or somebody who, you know, Stephen King, who gets to call their shots. But no,
[24:27]it's totally up to where this book lands in somebody's hands. And so I'm, I'm hopeful that
[24:34]somebody will see a spark there and, and try another medium. I would love to see that. I would
[24:39]even love to see like a bad movie made of one. I just, I'm just so fascinated by that process,
[24:48]anything that I could participate in other than writing the book, but it's still, you know,
[24:52]a fantasy of mine. At least you already started, you've got some of the swag going already.
[24:57]I saw like your tote bags on Instagram, which by the way, I'm dying to get one of those tote bags.
[25:01]Maybe I can mail you one online and you can mail you one of yours. I love with the book covers on
[25:05]it and everything. I do. Yes, I do. Yeah, I actually have one and I've been dragging it around with
[25:10]me every time. So there actually is a way to, for readers to get one if they buy a sign book from
[25:17]one of the independent bookstores that has it, it comes with a tote bag. So yeah, I think they
[25:24]can find information on my things on my blog or my website. I'll make sure that it's up there
[25:29]prominently displayed and, and they can pick their indie bookstore of choice and get a cool tote
[25:35]bag as well. Awesome. Do you have any advice for aspiring authors? You've written 50 plus books.
[25:41]I mean, how do you, how do you do it? What's the secret and what's your general advice for them?
[25:46]You know, I, I'm convinced that every other writer except me has the secret, but I wish that I
[25:53]had an easy formula for this and I'm just, I'm here to tell you it's, it's not easy. If it was easy,
[25:59]a lot more of us would do it, I guess. But I will say that everybody has a story. Everybody has a story.
[26:07]And everybody has a voice and the people who succeed, you have to define that for yourself. What
[26:13]is it? Is it just getting your story out or is it getting your story published in a big way or a
[26:19]a small way? But if you want, this is commercial publishing. I mean, it's big publishers and the
[26:25]writer, all the writers has to do is write somebody else does all that in order to start that
[26:32]process. First of all, anybody who wants to write is in luck because you don't have to be,
[26:39]you know, a certain age to do it. I started very, very young, but I know writers who didn't
[26:44]start writing until they retired from a job. And so you can start at any point in your life. And
[26:51]the key for me is number one start. Number two, finish what you start. And that's probably
[26:58]the, I know many, many writers who write 17 glorious pages and then they get distracted and it kind
[27:06]of peters out. It's sort, you have to remind yourself to write if not every day on a regular
[27:13]schedule. When I first started, I was a mom, I was a teacher. I wrote during my lunch hour. I stayed
[27:19]up late at night. I, you know, tried to juggle that. And somehow I wrote one or two books a year that
[27:26]way. My youth, I guess, my frisky youth. But a writer needs to practice her craft. Some people say
[27:35]you're apprenticeship is a million words, which is about 10 books. In my case, I sold, I think the third
[27:41]book that I wrote. So be prepared to have some practice books and study your craft. The way that
[27:48]I studied my craft is not only I practiced it every day, but I accessed the wisdom of other writers
[27:55]and other writing teachers. And I have my two favorites right here. I never far from them. And I
[28:02]will share them. So people can, you're going to go online and find this one probably from a second
[28:09]bookseller because I don't know if it's in print, but it's called Techniques of the Selling Writer
[28:13]by Dwight Swain and published by a small press. And this was my Bible when I was learning the craft
[28:21]of writing a novel. And then this one is called The Writer's Journey by Christopher Vogler. And it's
[28:28]actually a manual for screenwriters, which sounds weird, you know, but everything that he says in here
[28:35]is relates to the journey of a book. And so between those two, when I would get stuck in a story
[28:42]and not know where the story should go and and how the journey should be shaped, I would always
[28:48]go back to matters of craft because there's inspiration in their talent and nobody can give you
[28:53]that. But there's craft just like in any profession, there are certain steps that you can take
[28:58]and things that you can learn. And hopefully, if you read the loss of found bookshop,
[29:04]here's a matter of craft. Okay, this is a quick, quick lesson. Pay attention to what Natalie
[29:08]wears in most as a key seat. And it's subtle and you probably don't focus on it, but you find that
[29:16]the way she dresses and I find this with women that I know in real life reflects what she's trying
[29:23]to be and who she's trying to be and where she's trying to go in life. So in the very first scene,
[29:28]she's very buttoned down and corporate looking and you know, trying to be very professional
[29:33]and the look that she adopts in, you know, scene after scene, she tries to emulate her mother and
[29:40]look like her mother and that doesn't work. And by the end, she kind of looks like us. She's in
[29:45]and she's in her yoga pants. I got out of my workout pants for this. Thank you. But by the end,
[29:55]she's comfortable in her own skin, in her own identity, instead of-
[30:00]trying to fit into a life that didn't fit her.
[30:03]And that one thing that I did as I was revising the book,
[30:07]I realized that her evolution as a character
[30:11]was not sharp enough and went back to matters of craft.
[30:14]And I remembered some of these lessons
[30:16]and I thought, how do I show this in a subtle way
[30:19]without hitting the reader of the head with it?
[30:22]And so maybe some readers will notice that some won't,
[30:25]but that's a typical matter of craft.
[30:28]I didn't make it up.
[30:29]I brought my creativity to it, I hope,
[30:32]but that's just a quick little lesson
[30:34]that I remember from the book.
[30:36]And it's something that you develop
[30:38]by studying your craft.
[30:40]Amazing.
[30:41]Give us a premium of your next book.
[30:43]I would love to because I'm supposed to be finishing it
[30:46]probably this week, but I'd much rather do podcasts.
[30:49]My working title and by working title,
[30:52]it means the title I'm using that I hope
[30:54]the publisher will keep is American Princess.
[30:57]And weirdly, I started it all before white privilege
[31:02]became a really big prominent issue in today's world.
[31:06]I was already writing about this woman who is,
[31:09]she discovers that she's afflicted with white privilege
[31:13]and decides to make a huge change in her life because of it.
[31:16]And so it's called American Princess.
[31:17]It takes place in Greater Washington, D.C.
[31:20]And it's been amazing to write.
[31:23]And I actually, before the pandemic,
[31:25]right before, in February of this year,
[31:27]I made a research trip to Vietnam.
[31:30]And it was a life-changing magical trip
[31:33]that I made with a number of fellow travelers
[31:37]who I haven't seen since because we got home
[31:40]and everything shut down.
[31:42]So that will be next summer, 2021.
[31:44]This one is out now.
[31:46]The other thing I wanted to give a shout out
[31:48]to my publisher for, they created probably
[31:51]the nicest digital book club kit for this book.
[31:55]You can find it on my website.
[31:57]And it has the coolest things.
[31:59]It has like some trivia cards about bookstores
[32:02]as a coloring page, has a recipe.
[32:05]It's very cool.
[32:07]So if you have a book club or you want to adopt something
[32:11]for your book club, I encourage people to check that out too.
[32:14]All right, I think I might just print them out
[32:15]for my kids now.
[32:16]I'm very cute.
[32:20]Well, thank you so much for doing this.
[32:21]Congratulations.
[32:22]I'm finishing your first Instagram live.
[32:24]You made it.
[32:27]This was like way more fun.
[32:28]I don't even want to work now.
[32:31]Maybe they're getting beautiful.
[32:34]This is great.
[32:35]Thank you for sharing your virtual book tour,
[32:37]making this a stop.
[32:38]I really appreciate it.
[32:40]And congratulations on your book.
[32:42]And I'm going to go online and now find a way
[32:44]to get myself one of those topics.
[32:46]You are so welcome.
[32:48]Thank you again.
[32:48]And I hope everybody stays safe.
[32:51]Wear your mask.
[32:51]Don't touch your face.
[32:53]Read a book.
[32:54]Thank you for all my season.
[32:56]Thank you.
[32:58]Thanks again for listening to my podcast.
[33:00]Moms don't have time to read books.
[33:02]If you liked this episode, please follow me on Instagram
[33:06]at zivioens and at moms don't have time to read books
[33:09]and sign up for my mailing list at zivioens.com
[33:12]so you can always hear about the latest things I'm up to.
[33:15]Thanks a lot.
[33:16]This episode has been sponsored by the helm.
[33:19].co, a lifestyle brand committed to elevating, investing,
[33:22]and female entrepreneurs with tons of products
[33:25]by women founders definitely go check them out.
[33:28]Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan at Texture Sound
[33:31]for the Sound Editing.
[33:32]And thank you to Morningmoon Productions
[33:34]for providing this fantastic intro and out trim music.
[33:36]Thanks for listening.
[33:37]You can always email me at zivioens.com.