Lara Prescott, THE SECRETS WE KEPT
[0:08]Hi, I'm Zivi Owens, and you're listening to the award-winning podcast,
[0:11]Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books. Thanks so much for listening to my podcast.
[0:15]If you like what you hear, please follow me on Instagram at Zivi Owens,
[0:19]and also at Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books. Thanks so much for listening. Enjoy it.
[0:23]Today's episode was sponsored by Nest Notes, which is a company founded by a mom named Chase
[0:28]Simmering, who's in Miami, and they create print keepsakes that tell stories,
[0:33]which, as you all know, stories are like my favorite thing, whether they're family stories or
[0:37]stories of the places we call home. So shop, kids stationery, and papergrids, and little
[0:42]journals, and all the rest at this amazing company, NestNotes.com. Lara Prescott is the author
[0:48]of the Secrets We Kept, an instant New York Times bestseller, and a Hello Sunshine Reese's book
[0:53]club pick. The Secrets We Kept is Lara's debut novel, and will be translated into over 30
[0:58]languages and adapted for TV by the Inc Factory and Mark Platt Productions. Lara received her MFA
[1:04]from the Missioner Center for Writers at the University of Texas. She studied political science
[1:09]at American University in Washington, D.C. and international development in Namibia and South Africa.
[1:15]Prior to writing fiction, Lara worked as a political campaign consultant. Lara is writing his
[1:19]appeared in the Southern Review, the Hudson Review, Crazy Horse, and more. She currently lives in
[1:24]Austin, Texas with her husband, son, cats, and dog. Welcome Lara. Thanks so much for coming on
[1:29]mom's. Don't have time to read books. Thanks so much for having me. It's great to be here.
[1:34]So the Secrets We Kept. By the way, I read this on my iPad, and I kept taking all these screenshots
[1:41]of quotes, and my husband was like sleeping next to me. This is a few days ago when I was like
[1:45]finishing it, and every South, and I'd be like, shh. And he's like, shoot him. I like it's another
[1:49]really good quote. Anyway, so there was lots to memorial, you know, commemorate or whatever the word
[1:57]Anyway, would you mind? I know this was an instant bestseller, and everybody probably knows what
[2:01]it's about. But would you mind just giving like a quick summary for the people who might not have
[2:06]heard of your book? Sure. The Secrets We Kept is a work of historical fiction, and it's based on
[2:12]the true story behind Boris Pastor Knox, Dr. Javago, and how it was used as a weapon during the Cold
[2:19]War. But my book really focuses on women behind the story, so a group of CIA secretaries and
[2:27]Boris Pastor Knox real-life mistress and muse Olga even Skya. And were you really? I saw in
[2:32]your website, you were actually named for Lara in the book? I was. I was. So my mom's favorite
[2:40]film is like the 1965 adaptation of Dr. Javago, and it's also one of her favorite books. She
[2:46]always reminds me to tell people that because she's like, I love the book first. But so yeah,
[2:53]I was named Lara after, you know, Boris Pastor Knox hair when in Dr. Javago, and it was this kind
[2:59]of name that I hated growing up with because everyone always pronounced it wrong. And we had
[3:05]a Lara who was a couple years older than me in school. So all the teachers called me Lara and
[3:10]said a Lara. And I was like, mom, why couldn't you just, you know, put a you in my name? And she's like,
[3:15]no, that's different. And it wasn't until, you know, my adult years that I started actually
[3:21]correcting people and saying, no, like my name is Lara, like, this is how you pronounce it. And
[3:27]now my mom thinks it's her, you know, fate that led me to write this book in the first place.
[3:33]As every good mom does, you have to take responsibility for every good friend your child does.
[3:38]Because they probably will do the same. I had the same thing in school, by the way. My nickname
[3:43]name was like in Albatross. I had to always explain and had to spell it. And that's why I ended up
[3:48]naming my kids things that like nobody could mess up. That was my one criteria.
[3:53]That's smart. Yeah, my son's name is James. So it's pretty easy. Yeah, that's even easier than
[3:57]probably my kids. And he's so cute. By the way, your Instagram is like a love letter to your son.
[4:03]It's like adorable. He's extremely adorable and photogenic. So I feel like since the quarantine,
[4:13]it's one of the things that gives me joy. And I usually hadn't posted a ton of stuff about
[4:19]my pictures of myself over the years. Now I'm like constantly taking photos of him. So
[4:25]I noticed that. I was like, I am literally watching like a mother falling in love with her child
[4:29]in the scene. It's like all about work stuff, blah, blah, blah. And it's like, kid, 100% of the time.
[4:36]Yeah, it was like content and puppy content. And now the paperback is coming out. So that's
[4:47]exciting. I'll have to put a few posts about that. Yeah, it's the paperback is out as of a
[4:52]couple of days ago. So yeah, had to show everyone the new cover, have it the new cover,
[4:58]paperback. And yeah, it's exciting. It's it's such a different space to be, you know, quarantine at
[5:05]home. But I feel like the opportunity to talk to podcasts like yours and also zoom into book clubs has
[5:12]been really fun for me, especially as a new mom, because I can just come out. I'm in this little
[5:18]shed in my backyard. And I can just come out and have that quiet space of my writing shed, but also
[5:24]do interviews and do, do book clubs from people in Japan, which I did a couple weeks ago. And it's
[5:30]like a, it's a good, I guess a positive thing that's happened with with everything that's going on.
[5:36]You should come to my book club if you want. I have a virtual book club.
[5:39]Oh, you're innocent. All right. Yeah, I'm like, the paperback actually has new book club
[5:45]questions in the back, which is great. And so it's actually my highlight of publishing a book
[5:52]is going to be able to speak to to book clubs or libraries. It's been really fun in addition to
[5:58]just the regular book stores. It's it's much more of an intimate and interesting environment. People
[6:04]really get in deep with a book with book clubs, which I think is just so fun and provocative too.
[6:10]Totally. I completely agree. So this is your debut novel. And you met with like the most success
[6:17]probably a book could have, right? This is like, it swept the world by storm. What was that
[6:23]feeling like? And I want to talk more about the actual book, but like going from like describe
[6:28]the writing process and like how it was when you were going through so much research and
[6:33]traveling to Russia and going through all these documents and doing all this stuff for
[6:37]tell me how long and then having it become a success. Like just take me through that that journey.
[6:43]Yeah, it's it's kind of still that hasn't hit me exactly everything that's gone through with a book,
[6:49]but I started researching in 2014 because my dad sent me the Washington Post article that the
[6:57]CIA had finally come out with all of these documents detailing the mission to smuggle Dr.
[7:03]Shvago back behind the iron current because I had been this rumor for years and years and years
[7:07]decades. And finally, they released these documents. And so it's like that same day I see this
[7:13]article. I start reading all the documents on the CIA's website. There's like about a hundred of them.
[7:19]And I knew I think I sent someone email like this is going to be the novel I'm going to write.
[7:24]And so I started a lot of research before I even started writing it. And like by fate,
[7:30]I actually got fellowship at the University of Texas. And so I still live here in Austin, Texas,
[7:36]but I went to the Mission Center right around that time. And that gave me an interrupted time
[7:42]to write and work on the novel three years worth. Otherwise, I probably still would be writing
[7:47]this novel. I don't think I would have gone through it so fast because I was working and just
[7:52]able to write in the mornings or the evenings. And so this gave me this time to just really
[7:58]like crush it out. So I sold the book in 2018. So began the research in 2014. But you know,
[8:04]as you're working on these things, especially for debut authors. And this is my kind of take
[8:10]at a second career. I had worked in Washington and politics for a number of years. So this was kind
[8:16]of my true love that was going back to. You really don't have hopes that it's even going to be
[8:21]published. I had zero hopes. In fact, I knew this was my thesis for my graduate, the Mission Center.
[8:31]And I hope that maybe someday someone wouldn't read it. But I just didn't realize that there
[8:35]would be any interest. And I'd had some people, some agents and stuff say no one's really interested
[8:40]in Russia anymore. And so you go through that rejection as a writer. It's just part of what happened.
[8:47]So when it did sell, it sold so quickly and it went to auction. At the time I felt like I wasn't
[8:54]a haze that I had no idea that anyone would be interested in let alone all these
[8:59]editors that I just dreamed to work with. And now I was talking to on the phone. And it was really
[9:05]a whirlwind where I almost felt kind of sick. They were nauseous. Well, it's happening. And I felt
[9:12]the same way when Reese posted about my book. Because I just felt like this weird, like, is this
[9:16]happening? It feels very separate from my own life as a writer just working by yourself and sweat
[9:22]pants for years and years and all of a sudden it's out in the world. So it's still something I think
[9:28]I'm coming to terms with as like the duality of the writer. And then now your book's out and you're
[9:34]the author. It's an interesting mix. And I think it took me a solid year to even come to
[9:40]go for it. But it was coming out. And it's being published in 30 different languages and traveled all
[9:51]over the world for the fall tour and a lot of my tour got cancelled in the spring because of COVID.
[9:58]And so that's it's a
[10:00]most of us needed great right now to start working on a new book.
[10:05]Do you feel like a ton of pressure now having to start a new book after all this?
[10:09]I mean, yeah, I do. I do, but I think I feel the pressure because I mean, I felt the
[10:15]pressure before this is just a different type of pressure. It's like the life of a writer is
[10:20]always some sort of anxiety lurking in the back of my mind. But you know, when I was writing
[10:25]the book, I was like, oh my gosh, I took a chance on a new career. I had equipped my job
[10:30]into all this move across the country. Will it pay off? Will I actually write the book and get
[10:35]it published? Now the anxiety is more, you know, I have a readership now and I want to, you know,
[10:43]write another book that people are going to enjoy, but also something that I'm passionate about
[10:47]and comes from my heart. So I'm actually thankful that I am not on the line for another book right
[10:54]now. I can take my time and thinking about what that passion is and what I want to say and then,
[11:01]you know, really, really work on it. But yeah, there's, I guess there's always that little bit of
[11:06]pressure. You reach one milestone and there's always something else above you. I try not to think
[11:13]about it. I really try to, you know, separate myself from the business of writing and leave that up
[11:20]everyone else and for me, I really just want to make myself proud and write something that I want
[11:27]to read and I do feel pressured to accomplish that. There was so much in your book like the political
[11:34]prisoner aspect and like just feeling like you could feel her skin wrinkling and like the what
[11:41]it felt like to be like starving and on that bed and like gosh, you just like so put me in that
[11:47]moment where I, you know, obviously I haven't trudged through the snow and I haven't lived this
[11:52]type of life and you just like, it was so immersive. It felt like I really wasn't experiencing it,
[11:58]but then you also have like a love affair and what happens when you love someone who's married
[12:04]to someone else and like how do you reconcile that and even a relationship with her children and
[12:09]like when she sent them into Moscow and stayed back, like that also was like breaking my
[12:15]like there's so, and then the type is full and like what that's like in the relationship with
[12:20]men and superiors at work and they're like you hit on like every theme imaginable. It's like
[12:28]it's amazing. All the different experiences wrapped up in this one book. Like how did you do that?
[12:33]Did you do that? How did you figure out what to put in? How to tell it? The dual time, you know,
[12:39]east and west? Like tell me about the structuring of it and how you, how you came up with that?
[12:45]The structure was probably the most mind-numbing thing that happened to write or to think about
[12:52]because when I was writing the first draft, the first draft I just was writing anything that
[12:57]came to my mind, storylines, is almost like character sketches. You know, what would Olga do in
[13:03]this situation? What would Sally and Arena do in this situation and really discovering them? So my
[13:08]first draft was, you know, double the size of the final draft and that's unfortunately, I think
[13:14]how I write. I keep thinking oh next time I'll be able to just like zero in on this story and
[13:20]write it but now I think I write really long and then I find that structure and I had the
[13:26]fortunate mentorship from Elizabeth McCracken and she was also my thesis advisor and one thing
[13:32]she gave me that advice was after my first draft and I had this, you know, massive documents
[13:38]and all these different explorations she said, you know, take, take it and maybe even print it out
[13:43]and start writing on no cards or writing on a whiteboard, all the beats and stories so that you
[13:48]can then piece them together. And so the finished project that goes back and forth and all these
[13:53]different character stories weave together, that came with the second and third draft that was not
[13:58]the original form. It was more of like I wrote for Olga for 50 pages and then Sally and then going
[14:04]back and forth and that was very interesting to do but as she was right when you take it out of
[14:10]the word document and you see it in a physical, you know, form whether no cards are on your wall,
[14:16]I have this picture of me with like no cards on the wall and you can really start piecing it
[14:22]together and weaving it together so it was probably well do for the next novel. I'm not sure if
[14:28]I'll have so many narrators but it is interesting to find the actual beats of the story. I don't
[14:35]outline ahead of time I guess. It's come second. And so many of the things that you wrote
[14:41]seemed so specific. Like even when someone's like walking down a hall and you're like, then they
[14:46]get to the elevator. Wait, the elevator's not working. Wait, we turn right. Like was that all true?
[14:51]Yeah, a large portion of that was true for Olga's section of the novel. She published her own
[14:58]story in a book called A Captive of Time and she documents, you know, every step of the way
[15:03]what that interrogation and the Bianca was like and how they ship them to the wall and what
[15:09]working on the camp was like. So that particular section, I mean, there might be, I would have to
[15:14]like go back, there might be some, there's all fictionalized but you know, the beats of being taken
[15:20]down the hall and to the elevator and the almost like psychological warfare they're playing
[15:25]with her and toying with her before they interrogate her is all true. For the eastern side,
[15:31]I try to use as much of those facts as possible. And if there was any documentation of what happened
[15:37]or quotes, I try to be bad in as much as I could. Wow. Did you go back and read Dr. Javago? Again,
[15:45]or had you read it? Oh, I've read it numerous times and I definitely read it while it was writing.
[15:50]I think I read it twice during the different drafts. I haven't read it since I finished the book,
[15:55]which I think will be an interesting thing to experience. And I probably will take a couple years off
[16:01]from rereading it. But it's one of those books that I read every couple years since I'm 17 major.
[16:07]Wow. I haven't, I'm not sure if I ever read it. I know I watched the movie. It was one of my
[16:11]mother's favorites too and I remember. But now I feel like I need to go get that book. Like,
[16:16]I feel like your book with Dr. Javago with a little bow around it. That's like a perfect like,
[16:20]here you go. You know what I mean? Like, it's just so neat when you have a book kind of about
[16:26]another book. That's like a historical work in and of itself. It's very neat. And then to have
[16:32]your own like thoughts and feelings and experiences with it. And then your family connection too.
[16:36]It's amazing. And it was something I was cognizant of because I didn't want people to have
[16:41]to have read the book before my book. But I wanted to, if they haven't read it, inspire them
[16:47]to read the book or see the David Lee film or just kind of experience it in another way after
[16:54]mine, which is I think something fun with historical fiction. And anytime I'm reading a historical
[16:59]fiction or watching a movie, I always am like, I gotta look this up. I gotta read more about this
[17:04]and see what really happened, what's in it, what was fictionalized. That's part of the fun of it,
[17:08]I think. And even all the little details like the paper towel stuffed into the back of someone's
[17:13]dress because it was so hot. I just love it. It was so vivid. And you could like put yourself
[17:18]in anyone's shoes, which is like the height of empathy. And that's like what the great part about
[17:22]fiction, right? It's like that you get to be in someone else's head and especially from a historical
[17:28]perspective. Anyway, it's very neat. I thought for a towel scene was loosely inspired by my
[17:35]own going to interview and Washington DC. It was like, I think it was in July and I was walking
[17:42]to K Street. And I was like sweating like crazy. And I had been all dressed up for my first interview.
[17:48]And I was like, no, I like jump into a Starbucks. I'm like, mopping my four. That is a little
[17:54]based in my own life. I mean, everyone has been there. Like everyone has been drenched and not
[17:59]known what to do about it. And like how to hide this like very physical like thing when you're not
[18:04]supposed to look sweaty, but somehow it's like a thousand degrees. So what are you supposed to do?
[18:09]That's the best part about Austin. You never really have to dress up compared to when I lived in
[18:13]DC. It's very laid back. And tell me a little more about how about the big screen adaptation of
[18:20]this book. So right now they're looking to develop it for television, a limited series on television.
[18:28]And the latest I heard is the pilot script has been written or is being worked with right now.
[18:34]they have the screenwriter and they're looking to build out a writing room to further look at the
[18:40]rest of the series. And they have a director, but I'm not sure if I can say who is who right now,
[18:46]but it's in the works for television, which is pretty cool because it seems like the best
[18:52]novel adaptations in my opinion in the last few years have been with television. You know, you have
[18:58]little fires everywhere. You have normal people, of course, handmaids, you know, all of these
[19:04]different things that you can have so much more room to work with compared to film.
[19:09]But I feel like before like mini series were not cool. Do you know, like nobody wanted to watch a
[19:16]mini series that was like, I don't know, it reminds me of like PBS, but not not to say there's
[19:21]anything around with PBS. It's just like like the branding of a mini series is so different from now
[19:26]a limited series. It's like what everybody wants to do. And that's like all I want to watch.
[19:31]Absolutely. That yeah, it's some sort of, I don't know who rebranded it to limited series,
[19:36]but it sounds more maybe exclusive. Like, oh, I got to get it because it's limited or,
[19:41]but yeah, it used to just be called mini series. There's gonna be a mini series adaptation.
[19:45]Now it's, but the television has changed so much where you have it's, you know, prestige television
[19:51]and you can, you know, digest it all at once if you want to on different platforms. It's
[19:57]changed so much in the last five years.
[20:00]Do you feel like you have learned anything from some of your characters about relationships
[20:06]or love or anything?
[20:08]What have you learned from that?
[20:09]Or maybe you haven't?
[20:10]I don't know.
[20:11]What do you think?
[20:12]Yeah.
[20:15]I think I'm interested in different themes of loyalty and the different forms that love
[20:21]takes and how it changes and changes people over time.
[20:24]So even if love is one way from the beginning, what is it like 10 years later
[20:32]and especially with Olga, her falling in love with this very famous powerful man
[20:37]and how the relationship dynamics change throughout that and the power shifts.
[20:42]And I think you've learned how love or relationships in general are never one way for the end of time.
[20:51]It's always evolving.
[20:53]And I think that was something I was interested in exploring through both Olga, but also Sally
[20:58]in arena's relationship and how certain even if it's a brief relationship can change
[21:04]the course of your life or change your direction.
[21:07]And that's something that even now I have a four and a half month old.
[21:12]And I see this different version of myself and different version of my husband.
[21:17]And it brings us to a different level of the relationship, which it's so it's just constantly changing.
[21:23]And that's what I think something I've learned more than what I used to think.
[21:28]It has to be one way and it has to be perfect.
[21:31]It's not evolving.
[21:32]So especially through, I think Olga's relationship, I see that a lot.
[21:38]I think you timed your baby perfectly because having a child, especially your first child requires
[21:44]like a complete stopping of regular life and usually you have to take yourself out of the chaos.
[21:51]But now everybody's at home.
[21:53]It's like perfect.
[21:55]That's what I was joking because my son has adopted.
[21:59]And so we did not know when this baby was going to come.
[22:03]In fact, we thought it would be probably now or in the fall is what we were given as an estimate.
[22:09]That did not happen.
[22:10]We got the call and everything changed almost overnight.
[22:13]So this was in February.
[22:14]And then, you know, a couple weeks later, we were, you know, quarantined at home.
[22:18]But we were already been quarantined with this, this baby.
[22:22]And I think that's something that I feel that there is a lot of joy.
[22:26]And just being at home with him and having maybe more entertainment that he's there.
[22:31]And you have some of the take care of.
[22:33]And, you know, I couldn't go on tour.
[22:34]I'm just, I'm just home.
[22:35]And it's been difficult because family hasn't been able to, and family and friends haven't been able to come and help and see.
[22:42]him.
[22:43]But at the same time, it's been wonderful in that way.
[22:46]Wow.
[22:47]That's nice.
[22:48]He can't go anywhere anyway.
[22:49]And you wouldn't, I wouldn't be taking him anywhere in like 100 degree Austin.
[22:52]He right now.
[22:53]Right.
[22:54]So maybe to the backyard pool.
[22:56]But that's it.
[22:57]Yeah.
[22:58]Do you have any advice for aspiring authors?
[23:01]I think my biggest piece of advice is do not think that every sentence you write has to be perfect when you write it down.
[23:10]I think people who are aspiring to that level of perfection can achieve it.
[23:17]But you'll never get there because your focus sentence it word at a time.
[23:22]And it might deter you from the momentum that experimenting and making this mistakes can give you.
[23:29]And so for me, I'm trying to remind myself of this right now when I'm working on this first draft of a new novel.
[23:34]I have to say keep going.
[23:37]Keep going.
[23:38]Get to the end.
[23:39]It's much easier to look at, you know, 300 pages that are full and fix those pages than the blank page.
[23:46]And just don't give up.
[23:48]It takes a long time.
[23:50]And you'll get there.
[23:52]Well, thank you.
[23:54]Lara, thanks for coming on.
[23:55]I'm standing up time to read books, especially as a new mom.
[23:58]And thanks for taking me through the like snow-filled glug and all the rest.
[24:06]And hot.
[24:07]Why shouldn't you see it just like making a totally transformative experience through your your novel.
[24:12]It really took me places and I love that.
[24:14]So thank you.
[24:15]You're so much for having me.
[24:17]My pleasure.
[24:18]All right.
[24:19]Thank you.
[24:20]Bye.
[24:22]Thanks again for listening to my podcast.
[24:24]Moms don't have time to read books.
[24:26]If you liked this episode, please follow me on Instagram at Zippy Owens and at Moms don't have time to read books.
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[24:36]So you can always hear about the latest things I'm up to you.
[24:39]Thanks a lot.
[24:40]Thanks so much to nestnotes.com for sponsoring today's podcast.
[24:43]Check them out for some amazing print keepsakes that tell your family stories.
[24:47]Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan at Texturesound for the Sound Editing.
[24:51]And thank you to Morning Moon Productions for providing this fantastic intro and now trim music.
[24:56]Thanks for listening.
[24:57]You could always email me at zippyatzippyowans.com.