Jennifer Dahlberg, LAGGING INDICATORS
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[1:04]by it is a gift to housewarming if you actually go somewhere or just give it to yourself. Everybody
[1:09]needs a treat without a long spring. PageOneBooks.com. Welcome to day three of my second week of my
[1:16]July book blast. So I guess technically this is day eight of my July book blast. And today is
[1:23]Beach Reads Wednesday. I love Beach Reads. I wish I had more time to just sit on the beach and read
[1:28]as I'm sure we all do. But instead of that, I'm offering up all these amazing Beach Read
[1:33]books, which you should definitely check out the summer and beyond. Jennifer Delberg was born
[1:37]in Rockland, Canada, New York, and currently lives in Stockholm, Sweden. She's the author of two novels,
[1:43]uptown and down, as well as her latest book, Lagging Indicators. Welcome, Jennifer. Thank you so
[1:48]much for coming on Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books. Thank you so much for having me. It's such a pleasure.
[1:53]We had so much fun on the comedy of errors. Book club that you joined where my sound stopped working
[1:59]and my husband ended up hosting and all the rest of things were all like he saved the day.
[2:04]I thought he saved the day. I did. I think he's hilarious. I actually watched when you did your
[2:09]Kylen Zibi thing together. So I think you guys are your team. Thank you. I know. I have so much
[2:14]fun doing it with him and he kind of misses doing a show together. So I think that's why he was so happy
[2:18]to hop on to our podcast on our genre. I love how supportive and how he's like really invested
[2:25]in what you're doing. I think that's fantastic. That's so nice. It is really awesome. And I
[2:30]love what he's doing. It's just we're like, you know, it's just this whole like creative
[2:34]whirlwind. It's really fun. Absolutely. That's nice. Kind of seeing all of each other, which is great.
[2:39]Yes, it's true. Which is awesome. So speaking of creativity, tell me about your really interesting
[2:46]way of gaining research and writing Lagging Indicators and how I was, I had the mistaken
[2:52]assumption that you had been in this financial world and really you're just like an awesome
[2:56]researcher. So anyway, tell listeners more about what Lagging Indicators is about and then
[3:01]tell the story again from Book Club about how you put it all together. Well, basically, I was inspired
[3:07]by the financial prices of 2008. But prior to that, I had been surrounded by people that worked in
[3:15]finance. We were living in Greenwich, Connecticut for my husband's job. We were there on a five-year
[3:19]expat assignment because I live in Stockholm, Sweden, now. I'm from New York, but I live in Stockholm,
[3:23]Sweden. And I was just surrounded by all these finance people. And I had, I was used to much more
[3:29]diversity in terms of different careers. And I just was kind of like, okay, everybody works in finance
[3:33]here. That's interesting. And everyone's kind of a guy working in finance. I'm not eating so many
[3:38]career women. Like myself, I had taken it all around to raise my kids. Like a lot of the other women
[3:44]did that were living in Greenwich at the time. And then when the financial prices occurred, it
[3:48]was just, it was horrible from a economic standpoint, of course. But I felt like I was watching
[3:54]drama in real time. I mean, you couldn't make some of the stuff. And it was in all the different
[3:59]personalities and all the sort of earth-shattering things that occurred. I have to say, I found
[4:05]very intriguing. And I thought, okay, I see if I can maybe craft a story around that. But from a
[4:10]female's perspective, and I didn't want to dive into the 2008 crisis. I wanted to do it a year later.
[4:17]Someone who had survived a financial crisis and thought that her job was secure. But only to discover
[4:23]not really. There were still sort of like barbarians that were out together. And I didn't have any
[4:30]financial background whatsoever. But I did work as an executive recruiter for many years. So I've been
[4:34]exposed to the corporate arena and the, you know, different finance types. And my husband is
[4:40]a banker. So I just did extensive research. And I enjoyed it. I mean, I think sometimes when you have
[4:46]been in a stay-at-home parent, any opportunity to like learn something new,
[4:52]you kind of like totally dive into it, which is what I did. I mean, I composed all these
[4:57]questionnaires. I gave it to, you know, female friends that I knew who worked on Wall Street.
[5:02]I, you know, just kind of bombarded my husband with questions. I read every article I could find.
[5:08]And again, I think the thing that really helped me the most about watch CNBC like every day,
[5:13]every day, I felt like I knew them. So that's basically how I kind of like taught myself as much as
[5:20]I could. But it's still very difficult because I don't have this sort of like innate ability
[5:26]in the financial world. So to hear you say that you felt that sounded authentic,
[5:30]actually it means a lot to me. Thank you. And I've had some other women tell me as well that they
[5:35]felt that I kind of captured the essence of that industry from a female perspective.
[5:39]Well, I do think it sounded super authentic. That's it. I've never actually worked in any
[5:44]firms like that. I've only read other books about firms like that. So compared to VA,
[5:50]I have an MBA, but I was in marketing and like brand management and, you know, not, I mean,
[5:56]they would like slam the door in my face at a finance firm if they saw my spreadsheet ability.
[6:02]So I'm just not wired that way. I'm so not wired that way, which is what was fun
[6:09]to like inhabit this other character because it wasn't me. And then when you don't have
[6:13]anything about a certain character that's similar to you, you can just kind of like go to the
[6:17]races with them. Totally. Yeah. It's like you use all your observational prowess and just like
[6:23]it turned it into a story and you don't have to learn how to calculate. Now I can't even think of
[6:29]a single term to even say as a joke. No, but you don't sense to yourself because you're just kind of
[6:35]of like, I'm just going with, I'm just going for it, which is what I did though. That's awesome.
[6:40]So having this glimpse sort of like analytical observational glimpse into this world so you could
[6:45]create your character who then like exited the world and tried to figure out what to do and won't
[6:49]give anything away. But what are your thoughts on women who actually are in this industry? Like,
[6:53]what do you make of it now? What would you tell them? Like, what should they, you know,
[6:57]I do definitely believe that if a woman is interested in passionate about this industry, she should
[7:02]have the financial world. She didn't absolutely go for it and, you know, work to get a seat at
[7:08]the table because that's really the only way we're going to make any kind of change. I mean, through
[7:12]some of my research, you know, as women, we are, you know, are perceived to be as less risk
[7:18]reversal than men. And a lot of research showed that perhaps like if more women haven't been
[7:23]positioned to power during the financial crisis, we would have had less exposure. You know, women
[7:28]have different kind of risk assessment and to make decision-making processes. So I just think that
[7:33]you need the diversity of voices and every aspect. So I definitely encourage women to go into
[7:39]that yield. I would say they have like five different careers. I would love to work on Wall Street for
[7:43]a couple of years. You know, so just kind of like, if you're telling different things and just get a
[7:47]sense of what it's about. So tell me more about your story. So you're from New York. I'm from New York,
[7:53]which part of New York and then what happened after, yeah, yeah, pretend I'm interviewing you for
[7:58]a job at a finance room. Well, I grew up in Rothman County, New York. And I'm actually a first-generation
[8:06]American. My parents are Haitian immigrants and they came to the United States in the late 60s. And
[8:11]my sister and I were both born in New York. And I grew up in Rothman County, but I always wanted
[8:17]to leave. I was one to go to New York City. So I got into college in this city, had a fantastic
[8:22]experience that I started working as I mentioned for a search firm. I also know my husband,
[8:27]a Swede. We met through mutual friends and we dated for several years and then we proposed
[8:32]and asked if I would want to move to Stockholm. And although I enjoyed my job, I wasn't passionate
[8:38]about it. And I always knew I wanted to write. When I was an executive recruiter, my favorite part
[8:43]was writing a candidate profiles. And so partners always kind of like more and more partners will
[8:47]like give me their, you know, scribbley notes and we'll like do something with this. And that was
[8:51]actually my favorite partner from the job. So I felt that like writing was something I definitely wanted
[8:57]to explore. And I had the opportunity to do that when I moved to Stockholm. And my husband being
[9:02]super Swedish and like very strong work ethic said to me, yeah, you can write. But it was pretty
[9:07]like a job. You have to put from nine to five every day. I don't know. Okay, I can really not do that.
[9:13]So I sat for like two years working on my first novel. I'll town it down is when it eventually
[9:19]became. And then the old-fashioned way back then, you know, the late 90s, early 2000s, I queried
[9:25]ages. I went through the, you know, that book. What was it that the literary marketplace book and
[9:30]everything? Like just trying to do the whole thing. And I think probably like the last agent I queried
[9:35]agreed to take me on. And then within a year and a half, she sold the manuscript to Penguin
[9:41]and A.L. They had a division called New American Library. And the book came out in 2005. And it was
[9:47]like a dream come true, you know, like want to write and then to be published. But I, you know,
[9:54]I had children, small kids. It was hard to write another book. They had an option for a second.
[10:00]I didn't really like deliver.
[10:01]Thank God they didn't take it
[10:03]because I could go to a bad respite now.
[10:05]But I found it really hard to write
[10:07]when I had small kids.
[10:09]So I admire every writer.
[10:10]So many people come on your show.
[10:12]I don't even understand how they do it.
[10:14]I listen to J. Courtney Sullivan.
[10:15]I don't even understand how she wrote her book with a book.
[10:18]Right? I know.
[10:20]I love that the little bit like she would write in the middle
[10:22]the night.
[10:22]I couldn't help you that when I had small kids.
[10:25]I could not do that.
[10:25]And I opened her book.
[10:26]I'm like, oh, this woman is in it.
[10:28]Like she is doing this.
[10:30]Right now, you could just tell.
[10:32]Like it wasn't like an observational situation.
[10:36]Like this is like someone who's like holding a baby
[10:38]and she's typing this at this night.
[10:40]Exactly.
[10:41]Well, I have the book on my Kindle.
[10:42]I can't wait to read it.
[10:43]But when you said that, I want to myself, my gosh,
[10:45]I was like not even in that frame on whatsoever.
[10:48]I just wanted to speak.
[10:51]People are like, yeah, I wrote it
[10:53]while my baby napped.
[10:53]And I was like, oh my gosh, I did like a thousand other things.
[10:57]Like I couldn't nap when my baby napped.
[10:59]Like I was like, why do I always have so many emails?
[11:01]I like always have stuff.
[11:03]There's always stuff.
[11:04]I can't, I don't know.
[11:05]I was the same exact way.
[11:06]I was the same exact way.
[11:08]So, but as a result of my writing suffered.
[11:11]So when I was ready to tell another story,
[11:13]I feel like the publishing role
[11:15]could kind of like cast me by.
[11:17]And when I had written this story,
[11:18]I thought really strongly about it.
[11:20]I thought it was timely, but they couldn't find a home.
[11:23]My agent couldn't sell it.
[11:24]And I kind of gave up.
[11:26]But the number of things happened at like 2016
[11:30]during this thing was gonna be the year of the woman.
[11:32]And then 2017, the homey two movement.
[11:35]And it just kind of convinced me that, you know,
[11:37]this story could resonate with an audience.
[11:41]And maybe I should consider releasing it myself,
[11:44]which is what I ended up doing.
[11:45]Wow.
[11:46]And what was that experience like?
[11:47]It was fantastic.
[11:49]Imagine being in a total sort of creative drought
[11:52]where your self esteem is at the bottom
[11:55]because nobody wants to publish your book
[11:58]to I used a self-closhing service.
[12:00]So I worked with an advisor.
[12:02]So he totally got what I was trying to accomplish.
[12:06]So this is definitely from writing a loan
[12:08]to having a collaboration with somebody.
[12:10]I was just so eager to be part of the process.
[12:14]So I learned so much.
[12:16]And I have absolutely no regrets doing it.
[12:19]I've met so many fantastic people both in real life
[12:22]and online on your community.
[12:24]For example, I started following you soon after,
[12:28]my book came out and I kept seeing your name
[12:30]on different people.
[12:32]I followed in the books to Graham World.
[12:34]I was like, who is he?
[12:35]Who is.
[12:36]And then I started following him.
[12:40]Then I started following months.
[12:40]I've had time to read books.
[12:41]And it's literally just been a fantastic experience.
[12:45]You know, just having that connection.
[12:47]And I'll stop at that my living in Stockholm
[12:49]makes it so that I don't come in contact
[12:51]with anybody in the American publishing world.
[12:53]So it's been fantastic.
[12:55]And I'm so glad you queued to my book fair.
[12:57]And that was so awesome.
[12:58]Yeah, it was wonderful.
[13:00]It was so great.
[13:01]Like long for days where we can get rooms of people
[13:05]and friends and authors, everything else hopefully so good.
[13:08]You were so generous opening your home
[13:11]to all the writers and readers and book enthusiasts.
[13:15]So I don't know.
[13:16]I don't know what it's going to be.
[13:18]Now I look back and I'm like, germs, germs, germs.
[13:21]I don't know which I could, which I can totally understand.
[13:24]I also want to hold my kids.
[13:26]Like I'm like, wait a minute, what we've been doing.
[13:28]It's probably, it's a good point.
[13:32]Because here in Sweden, we've been much more open
[13:35]than you guys have been in the United States.
[13:37]So my kids have like potentially much more opportunity
[13:40]to come in contact with germs.
[13:44]What is it like being like a Rockland County
[13:47]transplant in Stockholm?
[13:48]Oh, it's been fun.
[13:49]I have to say it's been fun.
[13:51]Like I was definitely one of those people
[13:52]who wanted to try the Europe thing.
[13:54]But I always thought it would be like London or Paris.
[13:55]And I'm really grateful that my husband introduced me
[13:58]to Stockholm because it's a beautiful country.
[14:01]And it just has just like kind of the right amount
[14:03]of edginess and it's more though.
[14:05]It's more.
[14:06]And the climate gets to you after a while, cold and dark.
[14:10]But now it's summer and it's gorgeous.
[14:12]So more time to write, I guess, that's you.
[14:14]And more time to write.
[14:16]More time to write.
[14:17]Are you sending the tape?
[14:18]Exactly.
[14:20]Are you working on any new books now?
[14:22]I am actually, I'm working on a new novel.
[14:25]It's a mother-daughter story that takes place
[14:28]in the Swedish Upper Pellego.
[14:30]We have a place out in one of the islands.
[14:33]Sweden, or the stock of our archipelago,
[14:36]it's like 30,000 different islands and scaries
[14:38]in all these different little small communities.
[14:41]And we have a place in one of the islands.
[14:43]And the book, it's a fictional place,
[14:46]but it's very similar to where we have a house.
[14:48]And my daughter went off to college last year.
[14:51]I'm not thinking a lot about motherhood and that relationship.
[14:55]And I just kind of wanted to happen to that.
[14:58]It felt much more genuine in terms of where I was in life.
[15:00]But it is a fictional story though.
[15:03]Fiction in quotes, or no.
[15:06]I tried to change these pictures all this possible,
[15:07]because otherwise I find that I censor myself.
[15:10]Then you're always worried, oh, people will think
[15:12]I'm talking about myself.
[15:14]And I have to say, no, it's not me.
[15:15]It's a character.
[15:16]People are quick to jump to that conclusion.
[15:19]Who just said to me yesterday, someone just said recently,
[15:22]like their agent's advice was to just quickly write
[15:25]a second book as fast as possible
[15:27]so that they would realize that the first book
[15:29]was an autobiographical.
[15:30]Oh my gosh, that's really good advice.
[15:32]That's probably what my problem was.
[15:34]I didn't jump on it as quickly as I should have.
[15:37]But I think there's definitely elements of who you are
[15:41]and where you are in life in whatever you write.
[15:44]And I had a friend who's a documentary filmmaker
[15:46]to say to me, I think that writing is kind of us
[15:48]trying to like sort through whatever issues
[15:51]that are going on in our head or something
[15:53]that is just on our mind.
[15:55]And I think that to some degree, all of my books have been that.
[15:59]I think like with liking indicators, my issue was, OK,
[16:02]I've been a stay-at-home parent all these years.
[16:04]Like what does that mean?
[16:05]What's next for me?
[16:06]Will I be able to do anything else?
[16:08]And where is this new book is about?
[16:09]OK, my firstborn is playing the next.
[16:11]Next, what does that mean?
[16:14]Totally.
[16:14]Yeah, I mean, I think that's why I love interviewing
[16:17]authors so much, because people are really
[16:19]just writing about what they're feeling.
[16:21]It's really just a ruse to talk to people
[16:23]about what's going on in their lives.
[16:25]So books are just the intermediary
[16:29]between us to talk about our experiences
[16:31]to people we don't know really.
[16:33]So I don't know.
[16:34]I think so, too.
[16:35]And that's what makes it even more special when it resonates
[16:37]and when someone connects to it, and so many of you
[16:40]least expected can connect to something that you've
[16:42]is writing and you're like, really?
[16:44]You saw that?
[16:45]Wow.
[16:46]Wow.
[16:46]It is very special.
[16:48]I wrote this one silly article on HuffPost
[16:51]a number of years ago called A Mother's Right to Sanity.
[16:54]And I sent it around.
[16:55]And I was just basically not complaining,
[16:57]but just like the management of kids
[16:58]takes so much time that I had no time to even be with my kids
[17:02]and certainly be with my husband and all the rest of it.
[17:04]Anyway, this mom at my kid's school sent me an email.
[17:08]And she'd read it online somewhere or whatever.
[17:10]Or maybe I sent it to her.
[17:11]Anyway, she was like, I didn't think I had anything
[17:13]in common with you.
[17:14]Like we have totally different.
[17:15]It was actually a little bit antagonistic now
[17:17]that I think about it.
[17:17]But whatever.
[17:18]Anyway, she was just sort of like, I didn't think,
[17:20]I had anything common with you in your life
[17:22]and your experience is different from mine.
[17:24]She's like, when I read your article,
[17:26]I laughed out loud because I was doing that same thing too
[17:29]with my husband.
[17:30]Like all the same stuff.
[17:32]And we never would have necessarily realized that.
[17:35]I mean, she wouldn't have known that inside, I don't know.
[17:39]If you write it down, then people can say like,
[17:41]oh, me too, like I've already done that.
[17:43]I feel this age definitely, I mean,
[17:44]that's how you felt a little bit about lagging into cares.
[17:46]I was writing about a black woman working in finance
[17:49]in New York City.
[17:50]And the bulk of my readership has been other Swedish women.
[17:55]And I thought to myself, like, how would they relate?
[17:57]Like, what about this story?
[17:58]First of all, I was just so happy.
[18:01]They were interested in reading it.
[18:03]And then how they connected to so many of the themes,
[18:06]even though on the surface, Mia is so different
[18:09]and her life story is so different.
[18:11]But there were still so many parallels
[18:14]and areas where they saw a calming ground
[18:16]and was like, character who I thought was completely
[18:18]different from any of these women.
[18:20]So that's what I like about the universality of writing
[18:23]and how people can just kind of relate
[18:26]in that empathetic quality.
[18:28]And that's why I think it's so important.
[18:30]Totally, absolutely right.
[18:32]Do you have any advice to aspiring authors?
[18:34]Well, definitely to read a lot,
[18:36]I know that that's always one that other writers say,
[18:40]but you gain so much from reading
[18:41]and exploring the different styles out there.
[18:44]But I also think to just be like really disciplined as well.
[18:47]I mean, I think that there are just so many distractions
[18:49]and that's what I've struggled with.
[18:51]Even during lockdown, there was like nothing else to do.
[18:54]It was hard to concentrate.
[18:56]So I think that just being really disciplined
[19:00]and believing in yourself, because I think for me,
[19:02]I had so many moments of doubt
[19:04]when I felt at other publishers
[19:08]or just the industry as a whole,
[19:10]do you want what I had to say?
[19:12]And it took a lot for me to kind of like build
[19:15]my confidence back up again.
[19:16]And I really think it's just important to believe
[19:18]in yourself and believe in what you have to say.
[19:20]And there are other addings out there.
[19:22]And I think that I'm still a big proponent
[19:24]of traditional publishing for sure,
[19:26]but if you have something to say,
[19:27]don't be afraid to explore other avenues.
[19:29]So to what was the name, by the way,
[19:31]the service he used to self-publish
[19:33]that came with an advisor?
[19:35]Yeah, it's called Indie Book Launcher.
[19:37]And they're actually based out of Canada.
[19:39]And I just really connected with one of the guys.
[19:41]He was just fantastic in terms of really guiding me along.
[19:45]Oh, amazing.
[19:46]Indie Book Launcher in Canada.
[19:48]You're in Sweden.
[19:49]People are everywhere.
[19:50]This is an international pre-player.
[19:53]So everywhere, that's the online community.
[19:55]So you just click on something
[19:57]and you don't know where people are coming from.
[20:00]Which is pretty cool.
[20:01]And it is pretty cool.
[20:03]Well, good luck.
[20:04]I know you're locked away in this shed,
[20:05]trying to finish this book.
[20:07]And it's a beautiful shed.
[20:08]But nice, nice, nice things.
[20:12]Yeah, I mean, lovely.
[20:13]Anyway, good luck finishing.
[20:14]And I don't know if you still are being
[20:17]held to the nine to five restrictions
[20:19]that your husband sort of said it to place.
[20:23]Like good luck cranking it out.
[20:24]And thank you so much.
[20:25]I think the day is much longer now.
[20:27]It's more like, I feel like I'm breastfeeding again.
[20:29]I'm waking up like in the middle of the night.
[20:31]You know, like, he just kind of like,
[20:32]I'm on a different rhythm right now.
[20:34]Oh, my gosh.
[20:35]Don't I can't even like, I have PTSD
[20:37]from that whole period of time in my life.
[20:39]I can't even, I can't even win the night when I'm at my own.
[20:41]And you know, I felt like that was the only one in the world.
[20:45]Anyway, yeah.
[20:46]OK, well, thanks so much.
[20:48]Have a great week.
[20:49]Thank you so much, Sydney.
[20:50]Thank you so much for all you do.
[20:52]And I look forward to all continue to follow your success.
[20:55]It's awesome.
[20:56]And yours.
[20:57]Thank you.
[20:59]Bye.
[21:00]Bye.
[21:01]Bye.
[21:02]I hope you've enjoyed this speech read on Beatrice Wednesday,
[21:05]part of my July book blast.
[21:08]Thanks again for listening to my podcast.
[21:10]Moms don't have time to read books.
[21:12]If you liked this episode, please follow me
[21:14]on Instagram at zibi Owens.
[21:17]And at Moms don't have time to read books.
[21:19]And sign up for my mailing list at zibi Owens.com,
[21:22]so you can always hear about the latest things I'm up to.
[21:25]Thanks a lot.
[21:26]Thanks so much to Page One Books for sponsoring today's episode.
[21:28]I hope you'll all check out my summer beach bundle
[21:31]at page one books.com.
[21:33]Thanks so much to Steve and Ryan at Texture Sound
[21:35]for the sound editing.
[21:36]And thank you to Morning Moon Productions
[21:38]for providing this fantastic intro and outram music.
[21:41]Thanks for listening.
[21:42]You could always email me at zibi at zibi Owens.com.